Forced Rotation Isn't Classic

[Pyrocat]

You don't have to babysit. FFA and ignore petitions.

[Reiker]

Seconded. We have non-classic rules being set to benefit the guild that's behind, with absolutely no input asked from us. Why?

[Otto]

Apparently they'd rather we rotate on complaining to them rather than just ignoring it all together.

The rotation went into place because Transcendence was complaining about it.

AKA, the GMs put in the rotation because Trans was crying. Should I be looking at this differently?

[Reiker]

And the ones doing the most crying (Allizia & Tibador) were caught exploiting a raid mob they were told not to exploit in the past... any word on their bans?

How many Fear mobs have you guys even killed total since the server's been up, 20?

[Dartagnan]

It's socialism at it's best.

[Jify]

And the ones doing the most crying (Allizia & Tibador) were caught exploiting a raid mob they were told not to exploit in the past... any word on their bans?

I was under the impression exploiting would require some sort of action. So far, from the actions taken, and the results that followed, we have that:


Exploiting a raid mob is fine, as long as it's in a zone with bad pathing.
Rotations will be put in place for any highly contested raid zones or spawns.
Decisions are made based on GM unbiased opinion in response to concerns from one party.
GM requests should not be taken seriously unless threatened with ban (see point 1)


Really guys? :(

(Honestly, I'd like to know. Can we exploit pull Phinny? It would make our 1.5 group raids down to 3 people. It would save a TON of time! I'm all for exploit pulling if it's been ruled a viable tactic!)

[Rifter]

Gonna have to agree with this and I don't even play anymore. Forced rotation set up by GMs is about the worst thing that's happened on this server yet.

[Villide]

Sure, it's bad until some jackass gets pissed off that their guild's getting pwned and decides to take down the server.

I can just hear it now - "Well, if the GMs won't do anything about this bullshit, I'll do something".

Sound familiar??

[Barkingturtle]

The terrorists have won.

[Zexa]

Quit it with the victimized mentality. You may be winning the battle at EQ content, but you are losing the battle at QQing.

Whine enough to make the devs' life hell and they'll hand you content on a silver platter. I personally am going to start with petitioning/PMing for a 1 month head start in PoHate and then getting myself on the schedule for Evil Eye because I know some kewl doods with like 10 manastones and I need a second, but it's always camped.

I miss the days of GM favoritism when raid mobs were just spawned for us, GMs killed it, and we got the loot.

http://i46.tinypic.com/2chmhbn.jpg

[Keystone]

Hey I've got an idea how about a compromise on the compromise?! Let them keep a rotation on one thing or the other and let us FFA the other>!>!>!

[Gildiss Gram]

http://nsaney.com/pics/cry_baby_shampoo.gif

[Hasbinbad]

absolutely no input.. ..from us
This is the thing that disturbs me. Trans zoned out of Fear before we were informed of any rotation.. Did they have something to do with setting this up? Why were we not talked to first as well? However it went down, this was a blatantly biased proceedure.

I would complain more, but that I can't stop laughing at the fact that it shapes up that the very guild that QQ'd for weeks and weeks about nonexistant GM favoritism and hacks (zero evidence has been presented against any IB member) - have now been shown to be the recipients of favored treatment (implementation of rotation without consultation), and the utilizers of illegal methods to gain access to loot they would otherwise have questionable ability to obtain (wiping to trash in the same sequence where they exploit phin).

Cute.

[Kraal]

Hey I've got an idea how about a compromise on the compromise?! Let them keep a rotation on one thing or the other and let us FFA the other>!>!>!

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3940/eq000028.jpg

I'm sure I've heard this before...

[Soulfighter]

PvE means Players versus Environement. Which means players compete against environment.

PvP means Players vs Players. Wich means players compete against other player.

Rotation are here so all players get an equal chance to compete against environment. If you want, like you said so many time, compete against another guild of players, racing,training, KSing,etc, then you might want to go to a pvp server (where 90% of your players come from). Because what you're actually doing, on a pve server, is absolutly pointless.

You could not say it louder then you actually do : you want conflict. Fine by me if it was on PvP server i'd glady KS you / with you and we would have a big guild war. But again, it's PvE server, where people play together against environment, like Transcendence did with Divinity. It's not that hard to understand, really.

It's important to understand both side , i played on a pvp server too i would react exactly the same way if a rotation was put because it would just mean GMs are giving loosers something they don't deserve and i'm pretty sure you think that way (because you come from pvp) But on pve you don't have to KS to deserve a mob, you just have to camp it with enough power to kill it.

on a side note i'm curious to know why there's so much pvp players on this server

[Wenai]

Why are you guys acting so surprised? You were told on Monday, December 7th, 2009 at 8:03 PM EST that this was going to happen. You have been following the rotation since then. I told you that details would be posted. I posted the details.

You have discussed it with me. You have discussed it with Aeolwind. You have discussed it with Nilbog. You have been shown direct quotes from the GM code of conduct from Live. We have explained the situation over and over.

Allizia asked me how we were handling the planes. Since you guys got there first to kill CT the planes were yours, Trans pulled out of the planes since it was your guys' night in the planes.

Seriously. The ones doing all the QQing... is you guys.

[Kraal]

You miss the point of it all Soulfighter, let's give you some scenarios.

Let's say your guild works tirelessly getting diamonds for resist gear, leveling the much needed classes, and finally breaking into a new zone, and after some trial and error you manage to drop a raid mob. By the time you're breaking the guilds that are lagging behind are complaining and rushing along because they too want some of that planar action.

You get a scenario where your guild is putting in effort but is getting fucked out of that effort because zerg guilds of 80+ people are bind rushing a mob to kill it, it creates a lackluster group of end gamers who drudge along slowly who would rather have things handed to them than actually earn it.

My view is if you want that raid mob bad enough you'll park a ranger there and check periodically if it is up, and you go by the old rule of first come, first serve. There should be no magical list of order to maintain civility because that just slows progression even further by creating a rut in terms of guild accessibility to end game content.

To be honest it's not a PVP only mentality to compete with other guilds, PVE servers had their fair share of uber guilds wrecking raid mobs as soon as the spawned until they farmed nearly everything possible then moved on to harder content.

This is classic, classic was all about assembling your raid forces at a moments notice to tag a mob before another guild prepared, some servers like Brell tried to implement some faggy "Rules of order" and that totally bit them in the ass in the end

I'd say if your guild is crying about how they're not getting their "fair share" of Naggy drops and try to change the whole dynamics of first come,first serve while they zerg themselves down 2-3 levels in failed attempts.

Then expect later on for high profile mobs to be wielding glowing black swords and haste weapons

[Kraal]

You have discussed it with me. You have discussed it with Aeolwind. You have discussed it with Nilbog. You have been shown direct quotes from the GM code of conduct from Live.

But...

Have you talked to Furor "Balls to the wall" Planedefiler about raid conduct and intra-guild conflict? Live conduct is one thing, but ask any leader or member from any end game raiding guild about why rotations wont work. Hell, even the GM's on live allowed the first guild to tag the mob gets it policy.

Even if guild #1 was loaded with every piece of gear possible from the planes, and guild #2 was still trying to rock them in Solro/guk loot, if guild #1 got the first hit, it's legally theirs. Just like if you took your 6 man group to foreman room and you called it first, it works in the same principle for raids, just on a larger scale.

[Soulfighter]

My view is if you want that raid mob bad enough you'll park a ranger there and check periodically if it is up, and you go by the old rule of first come, first serve.

When a mob die everyone know when exactly when it'll pop again. Then the 'first come first serve rule' does not fit IB mentaly (and i understand it), they are more like rush and engage right when mob pop even if there are already people, which is how things are on pvp servers.

i can't really answer anything else in your post since it's just some basic trolling

"guilds that are lagging behind are complaining" "while they zerg themselves down 2-3 levels in failed attempts." " your guild is crying about how they're not getting their "fair share" of Naggy "

[Wenai]

Here. I will lay it all out on the table...
My view is if you want that raid mob bad enough you'll park a ranger there and check periodically if it is up, and you go by the old rule of first come, first serve. There should be no magical list of order to maintain civility because that just slows progression even further by creating a rut in terms of guild accessibility to end game content.
True.

To be honest it's not a PVP only mentality to compete with other guilds, PVE servers had their fair share of uber guilds wrecking raid mobs as soon as the spawned until they farmed nearly everything possible then moved on to harder content.
I have no problem with competition. But I will detail below where the PVP mentality came into play.

This is classic, classic was all about assembling your raid forces at a moments notice
True. But this isn't what was happening here.

I'd say if your guild is crying about how they're not getting their "fair share" of Naggy drops and try to change the whole dynamics of first come,first serve while they zerg themselves down 2-3 levels in failed attempts.
There was no one crying about not getting their fair share of Naggy. This is not the issue at all. Let me break it down for you exactly how everything played out.

1. IB was the first guild to peak and basically was killing all the raid targets with absolutely no competition.

IB - Happy
Trans - Sad

2. Server got DDoS'd which caused us to be down for a few days. Naggy was supposed to spawn in those few days which meant that as soon as the server came up, Naggy was spawned and ready. Trans was the first guild there and attempted Naggy and failed initially. IB showed up and wanted to "leapfrog" them because they were ready to go and Trans had not gotten rebuffed yet. I told them that Trans was there first and had every right to give it another shot. After the attempt that I watched there was still no IB in the zone.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

3. My memory is a little foggy here so I can't remember if Trans got the next Naggy or if IB did. Basically the next occurrence I remember was Trans showing up two hours early for Nagafen to claim the spawn. They were the first raid force there and had every right to get the first attempt.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

4. IB decides that they want to play this game as well. They showed up five hours early to kill FGs and claim the camp. Transcendence showed up in the zone and I asked them to move along as IB was there before just like in the past incident. IB gets the right to do Nagafen first.

IB - Happy
Trans - Sad

5. Trans decided to up the ante. Trans shows up eight hours early for Vox so that they can claim the spawn. This is starting to get a little bit ridiculous and became clear that the guilds just couldn't get along. Trans got to claim Vox.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

6. Trans decides to put an exclamation mark on the current system. They showed up fourteen hours early for Nagafen's spawn. IB is completely incensed and decide "as a guild," as I have been told over and over, that the system they have been following for weeks should no longer apply to them. IB passed Trans (who have been ready to go for 14 hours) and decides they were going to sit in Nagafen's lair 20 minutes before he is supposed to spawn. This is when the rotation went into place..

.................

So let's go through these instances that happened over these weeks. I talked to Otto individually. I talked to Allizia individually. I talked to Otto and Allizia together. Aeolwind talked to them together. We tried our best to help you guys sort out a solution. We tried our best to get you guys to work out a compromise.

Contrary to popular belief, Trans never came to me and suggested a rotation. Contrary to the tin foil hat perched atop your head, Trans never made the rules. It is actually pretty hilarious. Is IB so soon to forget all the people claiming we were feeding IB all this info and favortism? Remember how much that was bullshit and you guys knew the truth that we weren't doing you guys any favors? This is the same fucking bullshit. We aren't doing anything for Trans.

I will tell you this though. If Trans wanted a rotation, I guess they lucked out because it certainly is the most fair way to handle things. Your guys' suggestion of "Whoever does the most damage gets the kill," is not a system that we are going to operate under. Consider raid targets part of the PNP rules is basically what we asked you guys. Don't kill steal, don't camp steal and just make ethical decisions. While Trans is at fault as well by taking the system we were using to the extreme, I feel that IB's method for solving this issue of: Ignore it and just let us both engage the raid mob is completely unethical. This is a PVP mentality and has no place on this server. When a guild is there preparing for a raid. Leave them alone, move on to another target or do something else.

Every server had different guidelines for following raids. Some servers (apparently) were allowed to just zerg raid targets and whoever got the kill got it. Some servers operated under a guild-enforced rotation. Others just respected each other and let guilds who got there first take the target. Is a GM-enforced rotation where we wanted to go? Hell no. We wanted nothing to do with this garbage but you guys left us no choice. Rotation was the most fair way to handle it. Because guess what... IB still gets raid targets. And if you want the truth, there is no way that IB was going to win under the system we were operating under before. You wanted the system changed... you got it changed. Congrats.

Between school, keeping my own play characters at least somewhere with the pace of the rest of the server, and baby sitting you guys... I don't have time to do ANY fixes. Every day I am dealing with talking to someone from one of the two guilds over something. Seriously guys, I do this as a donation of my time. The last thing I want to do with my volunteer time is sort out these guild issues.

[Pyrocat]

Every server had different guidelines for following raids. Some servers (apparently) were allowed to just zerg raid targets and whoever got the kill got it. Some servers operated under a guild-enforced rotation. Others just respected each other and let guilds who got there first take the target.

My point is, all of the situations you listed are classic, but GM enforced rotation NEVER happened on live.

The most fair way to handle it would be to ignore the situation entirely from a GMs perspective. Yes it will result in leapfrogging, yes it will possibly result in killstealing, but it's a preferably alternatively to 4 guilds each waiting 1 month for their naggy kill and their CT kill, which WILL happen if we folllow classic timeline for kunark coming out in one year.

[Wenai]

My point is, all of the situations you listed are classic, but GM enforced rotation NEVER happened on live.

The most fair way to handle it would be to ignore the situation entirely from a GMs perspective. Yes it will result in leapfrogging, yes it will possibly result in killstealing, but it's a preferably alternatively to 4 guilds each waiting 1 month for their naggy kill and their CT kill, which WILL happen if we folllow classic timeline for kunark coming out in one year.
Then I suggest Otto and Allizia start hammering out an alternative method.

[Nizzarr]

Hello, im a member of a 10 man guild and we'd like to be on rotation for Nagafen, Vox and dracoliche( lol we suck too much for cazic thule!)

Can you please help us out?

[Pyrocat]

The problem is Transcedence will benefit from the lack of competition, because they were not getting 50% of the boss mobs previously. Now they are. They will keep that up until they're all proper geared and until they start having to share their spawns with another lower guild. Then they'll say "oh, no, we want to go back to competition" as soon as it doesn't suit them.

That's the problem most of IB has with this situation. It's fair only to one side, and that side will dump the "solution" as soon as they start feeling the heat of 3rd place.

[Reiker]

Quote:This is classic, classic was all about assembling your raid forces at a moments notice

True. But this isn't what was happening here.

Are you kidding me? You obviously don't even know what's going on. Inglourious Basterds have been the first in Plane of Fear every single time. We've cleared the plane multiple times while Transcendence has barely killed any mobs in there. Immediately after the patch came up we called and texted our members and got 20+ people online at noon on a tuesday. We fucking put in the work for this Plane while Transcendence was still camping manastones in Guk. But now they get an equal shot for being scrubs?

Are you going to explain why you're implementing biased, NON-CLASSIC rules at your whim? I've been asking for an explanation for weeks but you can't come up with any besides "stop QQing."

This is really fucking unprofessional and you really need to go, man. If you worked 10x harder than some scrub guild and then they came along and GMs gave them anything they wanted you'd be pissed too so take you WoW terminology and your WoW "everyone should get a shot!" mentality, pack your bags, and take it back to WoW. This is EverQuest. There is supposed to be competition. You just don't fit here.

[Wenai]

The problem is Transcedence will benefit from the lack of competition, because they were not getting 50% of the boss mobs previously. Now they are. They will keep that up until they're all proper geared and until they start having to share their spawns with another lower guild. Then they'll say "oh, no, we want to go back to competition" as soon as it doesn't suit them.

That's the problem most of IB has with this situation. It's fair only to one side, and that side will dump the "solution" as soon as they start feeling the heat of 3rd place.
I disagree 100%. Under the previous system, IB was not going to be able to compete with showing up to mobs 14 hours in advance. They had over two groups there for 14 hours straight. It was seriously heading towards IB never... ever... getting another raid target. I think that is the thing that IB isn't seeing right now. Under the previous system whoever had the force there first got to claim the spawn. They would have claimed every raid spawn.

[Nizzarr]

New rotation rules: 2 hours after spawn of mob, 1 try(if other guild is waiting). If you cant comply with those rules then you lose this spawn and next one

[Nizzarr]

I disagree 100%. Under the previous system, IB was not going to be able to compete with showing up to mobs 14 hours in advance. They had over two groups there for 14 hours straight. It was seriously heading towards IB never... ever... getting another raid target. I think that is the thing that IB isn't seeing right now. Under the previous system whoever had the force there first got to claim the spawn. They would have claimed every raid spawn.

We're ready to leave poeple at spawns for 7 days to deal with this non sense camping issue.

[Wenai]

Are you kidding me? You obviously don't even know what's going on. Inglourious Basterds have been the first in Plane of Fear every single time. We've cleared the plane multiple times while Transcendence has barely killed any mobs in there. Immediately after the patch came up we called and texted our members and got 20+ people online at noon on a tuesday. We fucking put in the work for this Plane while Transcendence was still camping manastones in Guk. But now they get an equal shot for being scrubs?

Are you going to explain why you're implementing biased, NON-CLASSIC rules at your whim? I've been asking for an explanation for weeks but you can't come up with any besides "stop QQing."

This is really fucking unprofessional and you really need to go, man. If you worked 10x harder than some scrub guild and then they came along and GMs gave them anything they wanted you'd be pissed too so take you WoW terminology and your WoW "everyone should get a shot!" mentality, pack your bags, and take it back to WoW. This is EverQuest. There is supposed to be competition. You just don't fit here.
I really don't understand what you are going for.

I talked to you as a guild.

Aeolwind talked to you one on one.

Nilbog talked to you one on one.

You were given the same answer every single time. As soon as Secrets logs on the server you start trying to send tells to Secrets about this situation. Secrets has not been involved in this situation at all yet you were trying to get Secrets to somehow overturn something? You are really grasping at straws man.

You have been given the same answer every... single... time.

Oh it is actually funny btw. I have never played WoW.

[Allizia]

The most fair way to handle it would be to ignore the situation entirely from a GMs perspective. Yes it will result in leapfrogging, yes it will possibly result in killstealing, but it's a preferably alternatively to 4 guilds each waiting 1 month for their naggy kill and their CT kill, which WILL happen if we folllow classic timeline for kunark coming out in one year.

I come from both a PVP server and Township Rebellion on live, I understand where you guys are coming from and what you are trying to do. We used to whipe the server clean daily of anything that resembled a raid mob for no other reason than to prevent any other guild from getting remotely close to us (loot rotted about 90% of the time). We were extremely effective at this, and the GM's eventually got tired of it and forced rotations on us (Yes, GM forced rotations on live).

This is not live though, these are not new encounters and this is a nostalgic representation of a 10 year old game. Is 4 guilds getting 1 Naggy a month any better then 1 guild getting 4 Naggy and the others get nothing? No. There are 300+ people on this server, and they will eventually want to experience the raid side of things.

I fully embrace and expect other guilds to get into the rotation, and I will support it and even offer advice if needed. For me, killing Naggy at this point is about as exciting as heating up a pizza, but I enjoy watching others experience it for the first time. The people on this server came to relive or experience(for the first time) classic, including the raids, not to watch IB/Trans kill Naggy for the 36th time.

[Wenai]

We're ready to leave poeple at spawns for 7 days to deal with this non sense camping issue.
A single person at the spawn wouldn't be able to claim it. We had specified that it would require a force. The definition of a force can vary, but for the most part at least two groups.

The point of inserting the rotation was not only because of IB threatening to KS. It was also to combat the ridiculous mis-use of the system that was in place.

[Allizia]

The problem is Transcedence will benefit from the lack of competition, because they were not getting 50% of the boss mobs previously. Now they are. They will keep that up until they're all proper geared and until they start having to share their spawns with another lower guild. Then they'll say "oh, no, we want to go back to competition" as soon as it doesn't suit them.

That's the problem most of IB has with this situation. It's fair only to one side, and that side will dump the "solution" as soon as they start feeling the heat of 3rd place.

Actually we were. In the 2 weeks before rotations started Trans Killed Vox and Naggy, and IB killed Vox and Naggy. The rotations did not require anything because they were already being rotated. It just became official and we can schedule a raid without worrying about trains or a 14 hour camp beforehand (and don't tell me IB would not have done the same, you claimed naggy the week before at least 5 hours early by killing one FG with 9 people.)

[Pyrocat]

Before "the 2 weeks before rotation" we had killed Naggy 2 or 3 times already with no problem. And we had killed every PoF spawn from the first day we broke it until the server went down to DDoS, minus like 1 or 2 attemps from trans in which nothing of significance was gained. We raided that zone more times than I can count. We killed Draco at least 4 times, and got the server first CT kill. Transcedence never killed Draco (to my knowledge) and never killed CT.

And as soon as the server opens PoF again, we are the first to form up a significant force, first in, first to clear, first to kill CT again. And, big surprise, you tried to compete and lost and decided to force a rotation again.

[guineapig]

I wish you guys could hear yourselves right now.

What are you going to do when a guild like Europa (who has a completely different play schedule), starts taking on these same raid targets.

Now is the time to grow up and start acting like adults instead of a bunch of selfish lewt whores.

There will be a bunch of other raid capable guilds on this server before Kunark comes out so figure it out.

[Pyrocat]

I really wish PoH and/or PoS would open soon, it would relieve so much of this tension. SolRo quests too, something to do asides from rabidly compete over mobs that don't spawn every 22 minutes.

[Soulfighter]

And as soon as the server opens PoF again, we are the first to form up a significant force, first in, first to clear, first to kill CT again. And, big surprise, you tried to compete and lost and decided to force a rotation again.

Why are you guys acting so surprised? You were told on Monday, December 7th, 2009 at 8:03 PM EST that this was going to happen. You have been following the rotation since then. I told you that details would be posted. I posted the details.

You have discussed it with me. You have discussed it with Aeolwind. You have discussed it with Nilbog. You have been shown direct quotes from the GM code of conduct from Live. We have explained the situation over and over.

Allizia asked me how we were handling the planes. Since you guys got there first to kill CT the planes were yours, Trans pulled out of the planes since it was your guys' night in the planes.

Seriously. The ones doing all the QQing... is you guys.

You could have at least read the previous posts.

[Allizia]

We raided that zone more times than I can count. We killed Draco at least 4 times, and got the server first CT kill. Transcedence never killed Draco (to my knowledge) and never killed CT.

You are absolutely correct. Plane of Fear was locked after we broke into with 12 people for the first time because it was suddenly considered to easy. You should remember this because we had the right of refusal using the old rules and we gave IB the right to kill Dracholich/Golems while we were inside farming trash and had the zone in clear for you. With so many PoF clears under your belt, why is it even an issue?

The gesture was lost however, and we will continue to disagree. Transcendence is not going anywhere, and more guilds will move to raid status. No matter what system is implemented, you are going to lose spawns.

This will be my last post here, I've said my bit.

[Pyrocat]

I wasn't under the impression the entire ZONE would be on rotation. I though that it would just be a dragon thing. Hence the surprise.

Plane of Fear was locked after we broke into with 12 people for the first time because it was suddenly considered to easy.

Yeah, and I would've been pissed if that had happened to me too, but from what I heard it was Aeolwinds first time actually seeing someone do PoF.

The gesture was lost however, and we will continue to disagree.

There have been gestures lost from us as well, and enough bad blood between guilds to last through Velious. I'd much prefer more content so we don't even need to compete and at the very least have 2 planes to share between the guilds so we can always have something to do.

[Wenai]

Before "the 2 weeks before rotation" we had killed Naggy 2 or 3 times already with no problem. And we had killed every PoF spawn from the first day we broke it until the server went down to DDoS, minus like 1 or 2 attemps from trans in which nothing of significance was gained. We raided that zone more times than I can count. We killed Draco at least 4 times, and got the server first CT kill. Transcedence never killed Draco (to my knowledge) and never killed CT.

And as soon as the server opens PoF again, we are the first to form up a significant force, first in, first to clear, first to kill CT again. And, big surprise, you tried to compete and lost and decided to force a rotation again.
I wasn't quite sure what you meant by this but I have gone through my logs and appears that I never 100% straight forward told you guys that CT would be on rotation. That being said it should be assumed as such though as all raids targets were to go on rotation until further notice. There was no system in place to decide who was getting the first crack at fear, you guys were the first in so you guys got the first round.

The best I can give you is when i addressed Transcendence:

[Mon Dec 07 21:29:23 2009] You say to your guild, 'Cazic Thule will also be on a rotation and I think planes farming will be dependent on who has CT that week or something.'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:41 2009] Noser tells the guild, 'wenai the pooh '
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:42 2009] You say to your guild, 'Ok guys. Thanks for your time, I am free to answer questions through PMs if needed.'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:45 2009] Durison tells the guild, 'Thanks Wenai'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:49 2009] Rupes tells the guild, 'Sounds more than fair. Thanks man.'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:51 2009] Durison tells the guild, 'you have been a great help'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:52 2009] Noser tells the guild, 'thanks!'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:53 2009] Rhongomyniad tells the guild, 'thanks wenai'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:56 2009] Mythoxxus tells the guild, 'Thanks man'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:58 2009] Bazek tells the guild, 'thnx dogg'
[Mon Dec 07 21:29:59 2009] Rincewind tells the guild, 'best decision'
[Mon Dec 07 21:30:00 2009] Taluvill tells the guild, 'Thanks man = )'
[Mon Dec 07 21:30:00 2009] Glitch tells the guild, 'Thank you'
[Mon Dec 07 21:30:02 2009] Stanley tells the guild, 'thanks wenai'
[Mon Dec 07 21:30:04 2009] You say, '#guild set Wenai 0'
[Mon Dec 07 21:30:04 2009] Wenai has been put into guild -1
[Mon Dec 07 21:30:04 2009] You are no longer a member of Transcendence.



Seriously guys. If you hate the the rotation so much, you need to work with Trans to get something worked out that works for the both of you. Find a compromise somewhere that you two guilds can agree on a system. Bitching here isn't going to accomplish anything.

[Pyrocat]

Working with transcendence will accomplish nothing since they ALREADY HAVE WHAT THEY WANT. There is absolutely no motivation to come to any compromise, and plenty of motivation to not work with us.

I hear what you're saying, but I feel that this is the point people are missing when they don't understand why people are angry.

[Wenai]

I'd much prefer more content so we don't even need to compete and at the very least have 2 planes to share between the guilds so we can always have something to do.
I'll be honest Pyrocat. This is my hope as well. When Sky, Hate, Fear, Vox, Naggy, CT, Draco, Maestro, Inny are all available... I am hoping that perhaps the rotation will not be needed and there will be at least enough to keep both guilds busy. At this time though, it is a necessary evil. I am all for getting this rotation lifted, but it requires work from both guilds to do that. If Otto and Allizia wish to get with me online and try to work something out, that is basically all I have been wanting/expecting since December 7th. I am looking for you guys to step forward and talk with me on this issue and get something worked out.

[Wenai]

Working with transcendence will accomplish nothing since they ALREADY HAVE WHAT THEY WANT. There is absolutely no motivation to come to any compromise, and plenty of motivation to not work with us.
That is the thing Pyrocat. Rotation is the fairest way to handle things, because guess what... both guilds get their chance. Both guilds can operate without the conflict. The problem with everything that IB has suggested to me... is that it solves none of the issues that were the reason for the rotation being implemented in the first place. In fact it amplifies the issues we have been facing.

[Zhao]

Rabble rabble rabble rabble!

[Nizzarr]

I think we proposed something along the line of 2 hours to engage a mob upon spawn and one try, if you wipe then if the other guild was ready they could engage.

Proposition seems fair, and if you cant mobilize in time you should be penalized. Giving 24 hours to prepare for a raid means a lot of cockblocking going on.

I believe something along those things was proposed to allizia and he refused(I didnt do the talking on this one)

and as far as im concerned, rotating plane trash is the silliest shit ever. break the plane? then its yours. if you're staying for respawns then it should be yours too. if you wanna feed off other poeples work, then wait until theyre done feeding themselves. respawns and no one is around? then go for it and kill shit.

[Rogean]

For me, killing Naggy at this point is about as exciting as heating up a pizza.

I dunno about you, but heating up a pizza is pretty damn exciting. Especially if its Digiorno... mmm...

[Reiker]

As soon as Secrets logs on the server you start trying to send tells to Secrets about this situation. Secrets has not been involved in this situation at all yet you were trying to get Secrets to somehow overturn something?

Now you're just fucking lying. Secrets and I were talking about other concerns, and of course this fucked up situation that you and Aeolwind have presented got brought up as well. But way to bring up something completely pointless.

I know Aeolwind and Nilbog have talked to me about this, but you three have just been evading my questions for weeks, so don't make it seem like I'm doing some shady shit, I just want answers which we're not getting. You've already avoided so many good questions and points in this very thread to push your agenda.

[Jify]

New rotation rules: 2 hours after spawn of mob, 1 try(if other guild is waiting). If you cant comply with those rules then you lose this spawn

Does this not sound better?

Positives

Plenty of time for a single target
Gives everyone some glimpse of hope at a shot
Reduces the 14h prior camping problem
Maximizes spawns per week


Negatives

You aren't given 24 hours
There is a possibility you won't get the spawn
Still a rotation


Still waiting for a response btw. Anyone know if exploit pulling Phinny is a viable tactic? I understand Nilbog is very busy, but using exploit gained loots to develop a foot hold of now "harder" content is nasty. If IB managed to exploit Phinny Robes & Staves for all it's members, then used said ill gains to raid, we'd never hear the end of it. =/

[Wenai]

Now you're just fucking lying. Secrets and I were talking about other concerns, and of course this fucked up situation that you and Aeolwind have presented got brought up as well. But way to bring up something completely pointless.

I know Aeolwind and Nilbog have talked to me about this, but you three have just been evading my questions for weeks, so don't make it seem like I'm doing some shady shit, I just want answers which we're not getting. You've already avoided so many good questions and points in this very thread to push your agenda.
We have answered your questions. You don't like the answers so you keep looking for someone who will give you the answers you want to hear. Some serious gradeschool shit going on.

[Reiker]

We have answered your questions. You don't like the answers so you keep looking for someone who will give you the answers you want to hear. Some serious gradeschool shit going on.

a) Why are you pushing biased non-classic rules on a classic everquest server?
b) Why not take a laissez-faire approach, as was what GMs did on live?
c) Why does Transcendence get handed a shot at Fear when they've absolutely sucked at getting in there and killing stuff in the past, and have only killed a few trash mobs? No draco, no golems, no nothing.
d) When are you banning Allizia and Tibador/Zyrek for exploiting?

[Rogean]

d) When are you banning Allizia and Tibador/Zyrek for exploiting?

Atleast they weren't macroquesting.


WHO SAID THAT?!

[Wenai]

a) Why are you pushing biased non-classic rules on a classic everquest server?
We offer a server comprised of classic content. Classic DB and game mechanics. Management of player relations were always under our own set of rules. That is why we have specified server rules. This is a situation where it fell into the realm of us having to step in and enforce our own server rules (Respect camps, don't KS and respect your fellow players).

b) Why not take a laissez-faire approach, as was what GMs did on live?
Ignoring the issues will not solve anything. It will create more chaos, more drama and more headaches. Managing the co-existence of your guilds was not exactly something I wanted to take on but it became apparent that it was required. As much as you want to say it isn't required and we don't want to intervene, guess what, we have to keep the peace. We need to keep the server running well and not ignore the issues. The death of EMU servers is when you ignore the issues and just let everything become a shit show.
c) Why does Transcendence get handed a shot at Fear when they've absolutely sucked at getting in there and killing stuff in the past, and have only killed a few trash mobs? No draco, no golems, no nothing.
Simple. It would be the same as a guild wishing to enter the rotation. As long as they have the players/numbers to be able at least get their shot at it. All targets are on rotation at this time. Get used to it or leave.
d) When are you banning Allizia and Tibador/Zyrek for exploiting?
Not a situation for me to handle. Nilbog is a busy guy. He has been made aware of the situation and he will get to it when he can. Just remember Reiker, you are someone who probably has no business being on this server. You have been warned more than once for cheating, we have given you the benefit of the doubt. We are believers in second chances.

[Allizia]

Does this not sound better?

Positives

Plenty of time for a single target
Gives everyone some glimpse of hope at a shot
Reduces the 14h prior camping problem
Maximizes spawns per week


Negatives

You aren't given 24 hours
There is a possibility you won't get the spawn
Still a rotation
Provides incentive to grief other guilds, one "accidental" train away from losing a spawn


Still waiting for a response btw. Anyone know if exploit pulling Phinny is a viable tactic? I understand Nilbog is very busy, but using exploit gained loots to develop a foot hold of now "harder" content is nasty. If IB managed to exploit Phinny Robes & Staves for all it's members, then used said ill gains to raid, we'd never hear the end of it. =/

You suckered me into responding one more time, grats. Yes I pulled Phinny through the floor, the cleric did not even have DA up yet and I was delirious at 3 am. I was the first person to attempt Phinny on this server, and it was even worse then it is now when I started. I attempted several times to pull seahorses and one of the following happened every time:

A) Estrella and her room would agro through the ceiling and destroy everything in their path (bug preventing half the room from being used)

B) Mellee (tanks) could not hit seahorses, the tanks stood watching seahorses destroy the healers and could not do anything about it, taunt will not work on yellow cons (bug)

C) Casters could not send pet's on seahorses and some had line of sight issues standing right in front of them, rangers could not shoot arrows at seahorses. (bug, although the projectile issue was in live as well)

D) Sharks and Piranha will agro through the floor on other side of room, no where in the room is 100% safe to fight at

You are correct though, he came through the floor (should not be possible) and I am 100% responsible. I tell people where to go and where to be. I micro manage every aspect of every raid. I think from my past reports that it is fair to say I do not intentionally cheat to make anything easier (I've reported tons of things that could have directly benefited me, and had a report on Phinny as well, with no hidden forum to post it on)

We used a DA necro last night, run through the 4 horses and snag Phinny out while they are gone with the exact same result (with the added bonus of a sacrificial gnome).

I've explained the situation and if they see fit to punish me, then they will and I will respect the decision. If the Devs want me to give them a tour of Kedge to see these issues first hand then I will do that as well, it's not just the pathing.

[Rigget]

c) Why does Transcendence get handed a shot at Fear when they've absolutely sucked at getting in there and killing stuff in the past, and have only killed a few trash mobs? No draco, no golems, no nothing.


I'm confused, we didn't "absolutely suck" at it. In fact we got in, cleared a bunch of mobs, gathered a few bits of gear, all with less than 15 people. We did so well with so few that it was determined the zone needed a little bump in difficulty. (I agree with that by the way. 5 people should not be able to man-handle con yellow mobs in the Plane of Fear.) We did not have a sufficient raid force that evening to take the Draco, and I can't remember if the Golems were even up.

Reiker, I used to think giving you a second chance on this server was the right move, because everyone makes mistakes or slips up. After reading your slanderous posts for the last month I'm fairly certain you do not deserve anything you've been given. You are a greedy, spiteful person.

[Reiker]

By that I mean, Plane of Fear opened yesterday with no rotation. We had less members on than Transcendence, however Trans never moved from their lguk / jboots camps, let us mass up, and zone in and begin clearing.

[Reiker]

Look, I'll admit, I've been a bit harsh. But it's sort of frustrating to find that classic EQ experience again and then having one of the major selling points of classic EQ (competition) taken away. I'm also looking into the future of my friends not being able to go on Veeshan's Peaks raids with the entire guild, because we're getting 4 keys a month due to a silly rotation.

I apologize for the slanderous comments and the tone of my posts, I really do. There's some really great, skilled guys in Transcendence and this isn't aimed towards them at all. But I'm not going to just sit around silently while a great server gets beat to death by poor decision making.

[Reiyz]

So this server really has forced rotation? A friend mentioned it to me earlier but I thought it was a joke.

[Reiker]

So this server really has forced rotation? A friend mentioned it to me earlier but I thought it was a joke.

It's still kind of a joke but sadly yes, we're on forced rotation atm.

[Allizia]

It's still kind of a joke but sadly yes, we're on forced rotation atm.

Hahaha talking to yourself takes the cake though, that made me giggle irl :p

[Reiyz]

Forced rotation won't work thru Kunark. It's too much of a headache to work. Keying a guild for VP would take fucking years. Who's going to actually respect something that hideously forces your guild to be a bunch of carebear faggots.

[Reiyz]

Hahaha talking to yourself takes the cake though, that made me giggle irl :p

ARE YOU SMART?

[Reiker]

I'm also Karsten, apparently.

[Deanob]

LOL never did I see a guild be so lazy and take the easy way out. Instead of competing like men, they just give up and revert to a rotation.

You stay classy Transcendence

[Allizia]

Where is Bubbles when you need her? This thread needs some Bunnies stat

[Gildiss Gram]

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u269/kissman24/Comments%203/SeasonsGreetingsCreepyMonkeyThings.jpg

[Dabamf]

I really, really really really like the idea of a 2 hour limit. Keeps things civil by avoiding trains and leapfrogging and 14 hour squats, but still requires speed, organization, and skill to kill the mob in the time allowed. And the best guild will still emerge the victor in the end, by losing less spawns to wipes and slow speed. And it also manages new raiding guilds better than either option. You shouldn't be able to hop in for your equal share of a raid mob if you haven't proven your ability to kill it. But you should have a reasonable chance of giving it a shot. A 2 hour limit gives you the chance to try it if you are dedicated (even 3+ tries if you are fast), but once you fail you are gonna have to wait for a while to try again, as it should be.

I say this, believe it or not, from the underdog position both here and in live. In live my guild was literally STALKED by the guild above us because we were biting at their heels. They would form impromptu raids the moment they saw us go anywhere, just to leapfrog us and deny us content. I hated them with every inch of my soul. And honestly it is a really lame tactic. In that case, it is NOT the best guild that is succeeding. They beat us simply because they had more experience on the content because they formed while I was still level 40 with my guild of 6. We had many GM interactions and a lot of drama. In one case they stole AoW 20 minutes after we spawned him with no GM punishment. In another case we got leapfrogged in NToV and the GM forced them to back off and give us our fair, and ultimately successful, shot at Aary.

There were a lot of cases where we competed for highly desired mobs and lost fair and square. I never was mad about this except at my guild for mobilizing so slowly. But there were also many cases where we got trained, stalked, leapfrogged, KSed, and fucked with in other ways that made our playing experience miserable and made my 16-year-old self want to murder their raid leader and jerk off on his corpse.

Ultimately, guilds don't feel shitty or slighted when they lose fair and square. At least they shouldn't. Guilds feel slighted when they get fucked with, trained, KSed, etc. That causes the drama. You won't ever see a flame post titled "soandso mobilized faster than us for the 10th time this is unfair!" The source of the drama here is because (1)raid mobs spawn at an EXACT time, and (2)the raid mobs in question have significant trash required to kill. Squatting for hours on a mob's spawn point is lame, I don't think anyone can deny that. It's a game of who has the most free time to completely waste, or who has the most people who can load EQ at work and not actually be there. But allowing the first to engage Naggy is also a bad idea, since then it just becomes a matter of "ok wait till the other guild pulls the last giants, then we train rokyl on them accidentally and engage naggy." Other raid mobs are easy to see a solution. In the case of King Tormax, for example, 2 guilds can set up on opposite sides of the zone and whoever can pull him first wins. That requires no agreement or rotation. With naggy, you're required to leapfrog each other.

Ultimately, the solution needs to prevent griefing, but still promote competition. The previous solution allowed both griefing (squatting raid mobs to artificially monopolize camps) and competition. The current solution prevents both griefing and competition. Both are poor options.

I think something in the area of a rotation with a 1-2 hour limit is the best idea. Leapfrogging and KSing and training should never lead to rewards, but artificially putting guilds of unequal ability on an equal footing with hard rotations is inherently anti-EQ.

And for the love of god, lets open Hate early so we don't have to rotate Fear trash. Rotating fear trash is so weak :/

P.S. Is adding a random component to the spawn time an option? It was added in later EQ, late Velious or in Luclin somewhere, but it was a fantastic addition that only led to INCREASED fairness and pure competition. It made raid mobs unexpected and thus rewarded those who could organize and mobilize the best.

[nilbog]

Guys.. you imply that this is what the GMs want and that we are punishing you on purpose. I had talks with both guildleaders stating, very clearly, that I didn't want GMs to have to manage this.

(Otto or Zyrek, do you mind if I post what I told you in our conversations? For reference sake, I want the truth known of what I said. Either approval will work because I said the same thing to both of you.)

Here is how I thought things should/would work. People show up, get their raid force ready.. first guild with large enough raid force for target at staging area gets first attempt. This is just how I thought it *should* work, but in the end, the players should mediate.

The term leap-frogging was also mentioned. My experiences with this were you leap-frogged on the WAY to the raid target, not KSed waiting players. By this mentality, you are asking the GMs to ignore petitions of killstealing and training? Because that's what is gonna happen. As soon as PVE becomes pvepvp, the petitions will come.. and cannot be ignored.

Here is a direct quote from Everquest policy about the inability to share. "Someone" said this sounds like an exp camp policy. To me, it sounds like any camp/raid situation. Since you guys are all-knowing about how things should be, maybe you can produce some of your own evidence?



Another player and I wish to hunt in the same area, but he doesn't want to share. Should I petition?
Before petitioning, you should be aware that no one group or player can "own" an area. In addition, the Play Nice Policy states that in such a situation, both parties must compromise with one another. If no resolution can be met, then you may petition for assistance as a last resort, and a member of the Customer Support Team will mandate a binding compromise to the disagreement. It is strongly suggested that the groups involved make every attempt to resolve the dispute without the involvement of a member of the Customer Support Team.

We had forced rotations on my live server.. because it was full of rude/leet da`kor, midnight sojourn, and an asian alliance of multi guilds. The leaders.. came together and decided how to manage their people. A /random 100 determined the order of kills, and guilds and even pick-up days were added in the rotation.

In the event a guild couldn't come to an agreement with another guild, things like rotations are put in place. As soon as there were PVE deaths related to guild v guild in a non-consensual setting, guilds were disbanded.

I want nothing more than just to work on content and listen to feedback. The point is to make it a classic server. You can use the rhetoric of "non-classic" all you want, but in the end, diplomacy with each other is the way to go. I think "competition" means showing up first in the best gear with the best players and consistently downing targets; not killstealing. On the flip-side, immediately coming to the GMs isn't the way to go either. Per the rules, "If no resolution can be met, then you may petition for assistance as a last resort."

I see both sides of the argument.. and I gave you guys over a week to work it out. It's easy to say, "non-classic, remove", but much harder to explain your points with facts and without emotion.

We are gonna be working with npc variance timers and a variety of other shit just to appease you.. but in the end, we're just babysitting. Maybe you should promote guild "ambassadors" that can talk with each other if your guildleaders cannot communicate.

I appreciate the suggestions for alternative solutions. They are always welcomed.

It only took 4 posts to derail the topic.

[Zithax]

Allizia asked me how we were handling the planes. Since you guys got there first to kill CT the planes were yours, Trans pulled out of the planes since it was your guys' night in the planes.

Seriously. The ones doing all the QQing... is you guys.

How hard is it to understand? WE DON'T WANT THAT. YOU DISCUSSED THIS WITH TRANS BEFORE EVEN INFORMING IB OF THE "SITUATION" REGARDING PLANE OF FEAR. We WANT them to compete with us. We ENJOY having competition. We WANT them to try and fight for gear. We want EVERYONE to. You, and they, don't seem to understand this. And if you do, you are blatantly disregarding it for facts that haven't yet come to light. Perhaps Transcendence feels they could not properly handle the necessity to compete for spawns? Perhaps they don't feel up to the challenge of competing against competent players? Perhaps they are just fucking idiots?

I don't know what the question is, but I have the answer; and it is FFA.

[Nizzarr]

how about setting some easy rules?

-random spawn time + or - 24 hours(48 hours fluctuation) on 7 days spawn, + or - 12 hours on 3 days spawns. + or - 3 hours on 12 hours spawns.

-first guild to have 15 players present after a spawn has 120 minutes to engage, if wipe/unreadiness after 120 minute and other guild has 15 players ready then other guild can engage.

-15 players is debatable but it should be the bottom requirement to claim a shot.

These rules are easily enforceable, has less gm interraction and all in all will make poeple happy. If you want to kill shit, then be ready when it matters.

You can change these rules as you see fit, but the bottom line should be the same.

I want some spawn competition, thats what made EQ a great game. if you take this away you're taking away a big deal of what EQ was.

and excuse my french.

[Reiyz]

I don't know what the question is, but I have the answer; and it is FFA.

sums it up

[Cykubis]

I'll give you your bunny!

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/5843/180388.jpg

[Pheer]

how about setting some easy rules?

-random spawn time + or - 24 hours(48 hours fluctuation) on 7 days spawn, + or - 12 hours on 3 days spawns. + or - 3 hours on 12 hours spawns.

-first guild to have 15 players present after a spawn has 120 minutes to engage, if wipe/unreadiness after 120 minute and other guild has 15 players ready then other guild can engage.

-15 players is debatable but it should be the bottom requirement to claim a shot.

These rules are easily enforceable, has less gm interraction and all in all will make poeple happy. If you want to kill shit, then be ready when it matters.

You can change these rules as you see fit, but the bottom line should be the same.

I want some spawn competition, thats what made EQ a great game. if you take this away you're taking away a big deal of what EQ was.

and excuse my french.

This. The spawn timers of the mobs being so easily timed and predicted is what was leading to the waiting game of "lol lets get there 14 hours early." I doubt people will be as enthusiastic about sending a raid force down to wait if the spawn could happen any time over the next two days. Itll actually come down to who can mobilize and get there in time, not who can get the most people to stare at a wall for the longer amount of time.

Of course transcendence is going to refuse to this though since they were the ones who initiated the waiting games to force a rotation, and will never go for anything that suggests they might not get 50% of the spawns in all circumstances.

[Hasbinbad]

Working with transcendence will accomplish nothing since they ALREADY HAVE WHAT THEY WANT.
This.

Also, Wenai..

You didn't say anything about rotations beyond nagafen/vox.
Rotation on trash is ridiculous.
The original "agreement" that you keep pointing to was never actually agreed upon because there was no agreement on the second guild staying out of the zone.
We weren't talked to about the details of this rotation before they were implemented, and it is 100% certain that Trans had knowledge and/or input of this (as evidenced by them leaving fear [yeah right, I'm *real* sure they would have left if they weren't positive of the situation coming down in their favor] and sending us tells about the details of the original 3-day rotation as if it was set in stone).

[guineapig]

Just out of curiosity, what if a group of people, say around level 47-50 that were not part of either guild wanted to go hunt trash mobs in Fear?

Would they be told that they are not allowed in the zone? Would they get a 14 day suspension for killing mobs there?

That doesn't seem right to me. This game is not instanced and making up a rule like that for the top two guilds while completely ignoring the rest of the server population seems like a big mistake.

[Wenai]

This.

Also, Wenai..

You didn't say anything about rotations beyond nagafen/vox.
Rotation on trash is ridiculous.
The original "agreement" that you keep pointing to was never actually agreed upon because there was no agreement on the second guild staying out of the zone.
We weren't talked to about the details of this rotation before they were implemented, and it is 100% certain that Trans had knowledge and/or input of this (as evidenced by them leaving fear [yeah right, I'm *real* sure they would have left if they weren't positive of the situation coming down in their favor] and sending us tells about the details of the original 3-day rotation as if it was set in stone).

Allizia sent me a PM questioning how it would work. I told Allizia how it was going to go down. I logged on my GM, asked Otto for some details of dates. I then made the thread and posted it. So yes. I gave Trans the info early out of respect for IB to get them out of your zone. Sorry.

I already apologized for not formally mentioning that Fear would be on rotation.

@guineapig: I agree 100%. We will be looking into alternative methods and open to suggestions. Between the awful whining posts, there have been some good suggestions. We will be weighing these suggestions seriously.

[nilbog]

That doesn't seem right to me. This game is not instanced and making up a rule like that for the top two guilds while completely ignoring the rest of the server population seems like a big mistake.

That's why it doesn't need to happen. Working on a solution at the moment, but please realize the players put us in a situation where we had to force some type of "binding compromise." Ignoring 50% of the players to make 50% happy just simply won't work either.

If I got to play (sigh), I would want to participate when a mob spawned with not having to worry about some type of rotation I knew nothing about. Takes the fun out of it to be on a schedule and its a pain when some new guild needs to be added to it, or a demand for a pickup raid day.

That being said.. could everyone come to an agreement about spawn variance? If this can be an agreed upon solution by the players, it can become a rule. I don't see how it would favor either side.. and would most definitely limit GM intervention due to petitions.

Discuss here if you would like. http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=9484#post9484

[Reiyz]

Anything less then FFA is unacceptable, in my opinion.

The only solution is randomized timers. Any other solution is going to make this game not worth playing. If I wanted to know exactly when I was going to raid I'd play WoW and enjoy some sweet ass instancing and lock outs.

This is essentially the same system but older methods are applied to make it work.

[Reiker]

So yes. I gave Trans the info early out of respect for IB to get them out of your zone. Sorry.

This is exactly the issue. We didn't own the zone. Saying so is totally contradicting the PNP blurb that Nilbog quoted, so which is it? We didn't want Transcendence out of the zone.

You have a great knack for not putting forth all the details. Transcendence was waiting for repops in Fear at the north wall. Unfortunately for them, this was one of the last areas we cleared. So, we used our prior knowledge (since we were able to mobilize and get into Fear first, gaining information of the spawn timers and an advantage) to camp near where the spawns would be happening. It wasn't until after we killed the first 3 trash mobs that Transcendence left.

So basically what happened is that Transcendence thought it was unfair that they didn't have an equal shot at the trash repops, even though we were using an advantage we rightfully gained by getting 20+ members on at noon on a Tuesday without any prior notice. This is all exactly how EverQuest competition works, folks. I said in vent about 20 times, "guys don't worry about Transcendence, if they pull some trash, it's rightfully theirs." They just don't want to compete. They want to carebear stare mobs to death without any sort of urgency or risk of spending time and losing a mob whenever their day on the rotation comes up. And this is how WoW works, folks.

[Kutles]

I have a few basic questions here, not trying to attack any person, any guild, or anyone at all that is in this situation.

rather than just ignoring it all together.

Why is this not a possibility as far as the role of GMs? Why is there a need or a general feeling that something must be done, not by guilds(camping stuff quicker, becoming more motivated as a guild to leap into action), but by GMs? Guild drama has been a normal part of everyday life on live EQ classic, Kunark, Velious, etc, even to this day and it will always be a major part of the social aspect of this game. It also exists or existed in, not just Everquest, but Everquest 2, World of Warcraft, Shadowbane, Guildwars (irony?), Star Wars Galaxies, and essentially any other mmo you can think of that has ever existed.

So, as long as neither guild breaks any rules posted in the rules and policies thread, what is the issue here?

Maybe IB will whine, so be it. Maybe Transcendence will whine, so be it. The game is never going to be perfect, and there are always going to be issues of people competing and getting at each others throats. It's just a hard fact of the nature of an mmo, please don't mess with that.

[Barkingturtle]

I think there's really only one viable solution to this conundrum:

Merge the guilds.

[Fanwen]

After reading thru all of this it seems IB simply wants competition and drama. There is no way two guilds are going to get along in PoF competiting. Dont kid yourself and think training and KSing isnt going to happen.

As far as the rotation. Its already done. Work out something different between yourselves or live with it.

They way rotations work on live was to get into the rotation your guild/group had to show up early and prove you could kill the mob before you could get into the rotation. Usually that was done by contacting the guild whos turn it was and they would allow you an attempt.

I believe there was also a 24 hour window to kill the mob. if your guild didnt kill it in the 24 hour window you basically forfieted you turn in the rotation.

As for Kunark and dealing with that. Your jumping way ahead of yourselves. When it is first released it will be a first comne first serve situation until you guys prove each other can kill the mobs. Then there will be alot mor mobs to choose from and hopefully you guys can come to an agreement so this forced rotation isnt required.

As for VP. There is alot of other steps to the key quest that is gonna slow your keying ability more then a rotation will.

This is all about a top guild worrying about being passed up by another guild. So work things out between yourselves so we dont have 2.

[Bigcountry23]

I think there's really only one viable solution to this conundrum:

Merge the guilds.

I fully support Inglorious Transcendence or Transcendent Bastards with the caviot that the boiler plate GM response to GM questions be "This is a guild issue, handle it yourself".

The problem is they would spend so much time arguing about the name that it would never happen.

[Kutles]

So work things out between yourselves

Agreed.

[Keystone]

Here. I will lay it all out on the table...

True.


I have no problem with competition. But I will detail below where the PVP mentality came into play.


True. But this isn't what was happening here.


There was no one crying about not getting their fair share of Naggy. This is not the issue at all. Let me break it down for you exactly how everything played out.

1. IB was the first guild to peak and basically was killing all the raid targets with absolutely no competition.

IB - Happy
Trans - Sad

2. Server got DDoS'd which caused us to be down for a few days. Naggy was supposed to spawn in those few days which meant that as soon as the server came up, Naggy was spawned and ready. Trans was the first guild there and attempted Naggy and failed initially. IB showed up and wanted to "leapfrog" them because they were ready to go and Trans had not gotten rebuffed yet. I told them that Trans was there first and had every right to give it another shot. After the attempt that I watched there was still no IB in the zone.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

3. My memory is a little foggy here so I can't remember if Trans got the next Naggy or if IB did. Basically the next occurrence I remember was Trans showing up two hours early for Nagafen to claim the spawn. They were the first raid force there and had every right to get the first attempt.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

4. IB decides that they want to play this game as well. They showed up five hours early to kill FGs and claim the camp. Transcendence showed up in the zone and I asked them to move along as IB was there before just like in the past incident. IB gets the right to do Nagafen first.

IB - Happy
Trans - Sad

5. Trans decided to up the ante. Trans shows up eight hours early for Vox so that they can claim the spawn. This is starting to get a little bit ridiculous and became clear that the guilds just couldn't get along. Trans got to claim Vox.

IB - Sad
Trans - Happy

6. Trans decides to put an exclamation mark on the current system. They showed up fourteen hours early for Nagafen's spawn. IB is completely incensed and decide "as a guild," as I have been told over and over, that the system they have been following for weeks should no longer apply to them. IB passed Trans (who have been ready to go for 14 hours) and decides they were going to sit in Nagafen's lair 20 minutes before he is supposed to spawn. This is when the rotation went into place..

.................

So let's go through these instances that happened over these weeks. I talked to Otto individually. I talked to Allizia individually. I talked to Otto and Allizia together. Aeolwind talked to them together. We tried our best to help you guys sort out a solution. We tried our best to get you guys to work out a compromise.

Contrary to popular belief, Trans never came to me and suggested a rotation. Contrary to the tin foil hat perched atop your head, Trans never made the rules. It is actually pretty hilarious. Is IB so soon to forget all the people claiming we were feeding IB all this info and favortism? Remember how much that was bullshit and you guys knew the truth that we weren't doing you guys any favors? This is the same fucking bullshit. We aren't doing anything for Trans.

I will tell you this though. If Trans wanted a rotation, I guess they lucked out because it certainly is the most fair way to handle things. Your guys' suggestion of "Whoever does the most damage gets the kill," is not a system that we are going to operate under. Consider raid targets part of the PNP rules is basically what we asked you guys. Don't kill steal, don't camp steal and just make ethical decisions. While Trans is at fault as well by taking the system we were using to the extreme, I feel that IB's method for solving this issue of: Ignore it and just let us both engage the raid mob is completely unethical. This is a PVP mentality and has no place on this server. When a guild is there preparing for a raid. Leave them alone, move on to another target or do something else.

Every server had different guidelines for following raids. Some servers (apparently) were allowed to just zerg raid targets and whoever got the kill got it. Some servers operated under a guild-enforced rotation. Others just respected each other and let guilds who got there first take the target. Is a GM-enforced rotation where we wanted to go? Hell no. We wanted nothing to do with this garbage but you guys left us no choice. Rotation was the most fair way to handle it. Because guess what... IB still gets raid targets. And if you want the truth, there is no way that IB was going to win under the system we were operating under before. You wanted the system changed... you got it changed. Congrats.

Between school, keeping my own play characters at least somewhere with the pace of the rest of the server, and baby sitting you guys... I don't have time to do ANY fixes. Every day I am dealing with talking to someone from one of the two guilds over something. Seriously guys, I do this as a donation of my time. The last thing I want to do with my volunteer time is sort out these guild issues.



I don't understand what showing up early has to do with anything, last I knew you couldn't camp raid mobs anyway? But ya if you're going to keep this assanine rotation in lets at least get some realistic limits on it so that people still have to mobilize / not fuck up without reprocussions. If they are going to be put on randomized spawn timers even like 3hours to engage dragons, 4hours for CT to engage from spawn would work, Could even have a serverwide emote or some bullshit when they spawn to make it easy for everyone to time. And you get 1 shot if you wipe then it's the next persons turn. Anything, anything but this bullshit.

[Otto]

To the GM Staff of Project 1999:

I understand all of the hard work you've put in for this server to be what it is.

Actually, I don't. And I sincerely doubt ANYONE here can fully understand the amount of work you have put in for well over a year on this project. I would like to think that everyone is grateful for your work, but as we have seen over the past 2+ months, some people don't care.

There are your MacroQuesters, your Dupers, your two-boxers, your exploiters & cheaters. These individuals are specifically going against your wishes and destroying the integrity of the server. You have dealt with many of them, and some have been given second chances. However, some have not been dealt with. This is where the issue arises.

If you would stop sticking your heads into the raid target situation, you could deal with factual evidence of people exploiting, server development, and maybe even have a moment or two of relaxation!

Lets look at how this developed:

Raid targets begin as IB downs naggy 2x.
Server attack, Trans gets a shot at naggy.
Aeolwind pulls myself and Allizia aside to see if we can come to agreement.
One is not set in stone, but an idea is layed out.
IB moves on to kill vox, clear fear, kill Draco + CT. IB then downs naggy again.
Trans moves in to Permafrost for 14 hours.
Trans wipes to Lady Vox.
We were prepped and ready to go should this be the case, but we decide against it due to lag from DDOS (in good faith, in the spirit of fairness, and against our own self-interest).
After 3hours of patiently waiting for them to have a fair attempt, we leave. The ddos lag was too bad.
I receive a call at 1ish in the morning saying Trans had just killed a Vox that wasn't AEing. Rather than Tibador logging on his GM and reloading the PL (as has been done with us SEVERAL times), they just kill him.
They act as if its a legit Vox kill, and don't petition until afterwards. Whatever, deep breath, moving on:
Fear goes down for maintenance.
Trans moves into solb for 14 hours.
We decide to move in and attempt to be first to engage as the rules imply that we should.
Wenai steps in and sets up a server rotation with Aeolwind.
At no point in that pile of nonsense was there ever word to me about a rotation being enforced. I don't know who were the ones QQing and whining to you, but it certainly wasn't IB. It was a one sided complaint that you gave in to. It was only after this stupid rotation that you've implemented in which we started to bring our concerns to you. It seems to me that rather than dealing with the problem properly, you gave into people whining about not getting content handed to them. If you left it to the guilds, it would always be a competition for mobs; first prepared and first to engage.

I don't understand why the rotation was such a priority. We had shown good faith when we dealt with Lady Vox during the DDOS. On the other hand, there has been documented proof presented of Allizia and Tibador exploiting after specifically being warned about the Phinny pull. Then, on top of that, not fixing an obviously broken Vox before they downed her.

These issues have been brought to your attention as of one week ago today. A Whole week, and no repercussions. This is _sad_ when you consider the fact that we now have a 14 day MINIMUM ban hammer over our heads for handling raid targets in the classic manner.

Rather than giving it time to play out and see where it would lead, we've had to watch the GM's waste huge amounts of their time developing a very poor rotation which we are forced to follow for fear of a 14 day ban. This is just causing more ungratefulness for the server, and even more complaints. Please focus on the server, the broken content, and those who are exploiting it rather than the guild drama that is extremely one sided.

[Wrei]

How many people do you guys have exactly in your two guilds???

Not enough to meet demand? You have got to be kidding me.

Think back to live for a moment and how many players there were online on an average night. How many raid capable guilds did you have on your server?

This isn't about meeting demand. This is about greed. Certain people in both guilds simply want to have the very best items available currently in game in each slot and probably an alt or three with the very best tradable gear in the game.

I don't see why the GM's or the rest of the community should bend over backwards just so a few people can feel like gods among men before the next expansion comes out.

Admit it, some of you are simply rushing. It's a big race to see who's the first to have X amount of hit points or X int or whatever.

If you can already beat all the bosses with 1.5 groups of players than all this gear hoarding is not a need, it's a personal desire and nobody is having it.

Just my opinion.


What you want out of the game will be different then what most of these raiders want. Some play 2 hours a week, others close to 50+hours, some like to make 8 different alts, others like to play 1 and farm etc... By that same analogy some actually like to kill raid bosses for the sake of the kill, the gear you may get, or the competition involved in beating out other players. Doesn't make somebody "greedy", this was how it was designed, non instanced bosses means competition.

For the original topic, I have nothing to input except to say you guys (GM's) dug your own grave the moment you decided to step in on the raiding drama. Washing your hands and letting it become a free market would have been the smarter choice, but now the player base will "expect" rules coming out for each bosses and the whine/hate mails will be coming even more because this will affect not only IB and Trans but the whole server.

[Otto]

Whoever moved my post, it is neither a rant nor a flame. It is a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed.

[Wenai]

The other thread is for discussing the proposed alternative to the rotation. Not a complaint box. Your post contributed nothing to finding an alternative.

[Otto]

I'll just make it a thread of its own then in the main section.

[nilbog]

Whoever moved my post, it is neither a rant nor a flame. It is a legitimate concern that needs to be addressed.

That's your opinion, Otto. Tossing out specific names, guilds, and your thoughts on how GM management should work have no place in a post discussing spawn variance. I think some people, including myself, would consider that a flaming derail.

I didn't move the posts over here, but I was in the process of doing so when I noticed someone had already. Not a single word in your post was spawn or variance... so, you were in the wrong place, bro.

[Otto]

Fair enough. I should've made it a topic of its own to begin with.

My bad, bro.

[messiah_b]

WTC wrong thread.

[Wenai]

Fair enough. I should've made it a topic of its own to begin with.

My bad, bro.
Lol. I love how responses change when Nilbog says the exact same fucking thing I said.

[Supreme]

This whole thing is one big joke.


Players from old "uber" guilds trying to be "uber" on a emulation server of 300 people. Get over it already and grow up. If you were that good you would still be in your guilds on live and not here jerking around with 10 year old content.

This is about old men trying to enjoy days gone past and share it with new friends/family. Thus why it is called Project1999.org!

People complaining about a rotation are really just being greedy and selfish. One big headache to the people that front their time and MONEY for you to have something to fight over in the first place. Be glad you have the luxury.

[Bubbles]

Lol. I love how responses change when Nilbog says the exact same fucking thing I said.

Amen to that.

This forum needs it's own Retard Rickshaw, in a bad, bad way.

GMs make rules, if you don't like it, send /feedback, whine about it in guildchat, or stop playing.

We're going to be up to our armpits in guilds and 50s here shortly. The short list of options is this:

1. ) Use donations to make a second server. Make an Inglorious server and a Transcendence server. Very diplomatic. Solves everything temporarily until another 3-4 guilds get going on being uber. The short-term nature of the solution will make this a less desirable alternative, tho.

2. ) Kill serverwide /ooc to kill most of the constant negative feedback. All /ooc is is the squeaky 5% of the population anyways. People don't /petition "Great work guys! This place is a lot of fun. I don't need anything right now, just wanted to say thanks and that your hard work is appreciated". Killing /ooc serverwide would make LFG much more of a chore, and selling items impossible, so it's not very viable.

3. ) Merge the guilds by force. I for one and rooting for this, just for my own amusement.

4. ) Get SolRo/Hate opened up ASAP. Sucks for everyone without a manastone and jboots, but hey. There's no law that says you have to yank the manastone or not have 2 options for jboots. On a server with hundreds of weekend warriors, giving ppl 2 options at jboots wouldn't be the worst thing ever, and would get level 50 necros the heck out of najena and out of the hair of level 20s camping boots and fbrs for loots.

5. ) Get the DDoS protection up as soon as possible, and just start banning people for being miserable f*cks. Gunieapig is right, a lot of you people need to take a look in the mirror and listen to how angry you sound. VZ/TZ just started back up again. If you're whole joy in EQ comes from depriving others of content and fun, jesus f*ck, GET THE HELL OVER THERE NOW. We sure as hell don't want you here. And that goes for both guilds and all the randoms who fester in /ooc all day long.

6.) Pool donations and make a second server. Send IB and Transcendence to the second server and leave them to their own devices so everyone else is free of the lot of 'em.

It's a game played for fun, relax and start having some. We're not all 19 anymore. If we really need to alter our lives and race for every spawns and contest every gm decision, then this sever isn't working out for the majority of us, and it's *not* the GMs fault.

How most of you are screaming at Wenai for not wanting two guilds given the green light to grief and compete openly is completely beyond me.

There is one golden rule of EMU GMing: GMs want to play, they don't wanna sit around and enforce rules and babysit a bunch of emo nerdragers who weren't hugged as children. ITS NOT THEIR RESPONSIBILTY TO POLICE YOU. It's their option. Lord knows at this point banning the lot of you and going back to enjoying their playing time is looking more desirable with each passing day. They didn't create the server to be GMS. They created the server to play classic EQ, recreated as closely to the original as feasible.

Oh that reminds me.

Nilbog:

Hire a bunch of us third parties as Guide/GMs. Give us like 1 paypal dollar a week, so we're "on the payroll and have to follow the company line". Let us run around all day and tell people there is nothing we can do about anything and they should play at their own risk. THAT will give these ungrateful raging cajuns the classic EQ they've long forgotten.

Chill. Peace. <3's. At this point i seriously just about hate everyone.

Bubs.

[JohnPublic]

This whole thing is one big joke.


Players from old "uber" guilds trying to be "uber" on a emulation server of 300 people. Get over it already and grow up. If you were that good you would still be in your guilds on live and not here jerking around with 10 year old content.

This is about old men trying to enjoy days gone past and share it with new friends/family. Thus why it is called Project1999.org!

People complaining about a rotation are really just being greedy and selfish. One big headache to the people that front their time and MONEY for you to have something to fight over in the first place. Be glad you have the luxury.

QFT. Except not all of us are old men. = )

[Reiyz]

1. ) Use donations to make a second server. Make an Inglorious server and a Transcendence server. Very diplomatic. Solves everything temporarily until another 3-4 guilds get going on being uber. The short-term nature of the solution will make this a less desirable alternative, tho.



Send me and my friends/soon to be guild over too. Once we're 50 we want real competition and not a bunch of crybaby fucks.

edit: awww, you edited the original #1 before I could quote it.

[Reiker]

3. ) Merge the guilds by force. I for one and rooting for this, just for my own amusement.

I 100% honestly support this idea!

[Supreme]

Send me and my friends/soon to be guild over too. Once we're 50 we want real competition and not a bunch of crybaby fucks.

edit: awww, you edited the original #1 before I could quote it.

Last i read it was IB members that have cried on these forums. Or have posted video or have protested.

Even the Devs have said that there has not been anyone in Trans "crying" to them about it. The Devs/GMs see the problem and want to fix it. Mostly because they want to promote a healthy server and fair game play i suspect.

[Keystone]

Of course trans isn't "crying" about it, because you got your way with 0 input from us, why the fuck would you cry. I guess if you can't beat em rotate em though, eh?

[Sadad]

Yes, we need to merge the guilds. I'd like to suggest Transendent Bastards. See the compromise I made there? I seriously wouldn't mind this. It's better than FFA.

In fact, this whole argument hurts my head. I genuinely don't understand the level of anger displayed. We're playing an emulated server that's emulating 10-year old content. Being the best at this is mostly meaningless. But if it's competition you wanted, IB clearly won. Y'all have all the titles, all the russet, most of the cryosilk, etc. Why do we have to breathe down each others' necks like this? And over what? Maybe another CoF? Who gives a shit, really?

Maybe I'm a carebear, but the idea of dropping everything in my personal life to kill a dragon spawned earlier (or later) than expected is not my idea of fun.

Shamwow

[Hasbinbad]

Last i read it was IB members that have cried on these forums. Or have posted video or have protested.

Even the Devs have said that there has not been anyone in Trans "crying" to them about it. The Devs/GMs see the problem and want to fix it. Mostly because they want to promote a healthy server and fair game play i suspect.

Are you in lala land? Is the sky fuchsia there? Have you not been around for very long?

You betray your ignorance in the very words you use in your post.

You accuse us of crying, but the crying on the forums that you are talking about originated with weeks of trans bashing us with lies and suppositions that were unsupported.

You accuse us of posting videos in protest, but the videos you are talking about originated when trans DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROOF OR EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND when they accused us of doing the exact things we HAVE SHOWN THEM DOING IN VIDEO.

You betray your ignorance in the very words you use my friend. It is very hard to soar with the eagles when all your friends are turkeys.

Another member of the Kool-Aid Krew (tm) donning his tin-foil hat.

..and that's the facts, Jack.

[Deanob]

Oh snap

[karsten]

Wenai, forcing a rotation on IB because transcendence cried to you and then calling IB QQers on the forums because they don't like it is sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet

getting together with allizia and tibador/zyrek in order to hammer out a rotation plan on PoF and then announcing to IB what the plan is that you three hammered out is also totally sweet

i would also LOVE if you told me that my facts are wrong, because it would jumpstart this thread to a whole new level of awesome

[Zexa]

Last i read it was IB members that have cried on these forums. Or have posted video or have protested.

Even the Devs have said that there has not been anyone in Trans "crying" to them about it. The Devs/GMs see the problem and want to fix it. Mostly because they want to promote a healthy server and fair game play i suspect.

Don't muddy the waters on this. These very boards were flooded with your members crying about how we received unfair GM assistance and other unfounded conspiracy theories.

IB had no reason to complain because we have been rolling your guild. The first time this trend was reversed was on the temporary forums when, unlike anyone else, there was video evidence of some scrubs pulling Phinny through a wall after being warned about the seahorses being an intended part of the encounter.

I'll admit to recently complaining about this new EQ affirmative action policy. We work hard to be better than you, but the noob quota needs to be filled it seems.

Congrats on your AEless Vox and "server first legit"(lol) Mayong kill.

[Bannedfornoreason]

Make the encounters so incredibly non classicly overpowered so that it will require a full raid force from both guilds combined in order to complete an encounter. Cooperation and teamwork or else nobody advances. EQ is too easy as it is right now. If we truly wanted to re live classic EQ that's what we would do because in 1999 I dont think you saw people killing PoF raid targets with 17 people.

[Zexa]

Make the encounters so incredibly non classicly overpowered so that it will require a full raid force from both guilds combined in order to complete an encounter. Cooperation and teamwork or else nobody advances. EQ is too easy as it is right now. If we truly wanted to re live classic EQ that's what we would do because in 1999 I dont think you saw people killing PoF raid targets with 17 people.

I've actually thought about this many times. It's a shame that we're altering the ways of Classic EQ so much, but you're dead on. First Naggy with 17 was very surprising, but it seems like nothing is going to be as daunting as it seemed in 1999.

[Bubbles]

It's giving me all kinds of warm fuzzies to know that so many people are just angry at the world right now tappity-tapping post after post about how unfair the world is.

[Zhao]

Can't We All Just Get Along?!?

[Danth]

EQ, at the high-end, never was about getting along. Top guilds routinely leapfrogged, 'sploited, lied, and did whatever they could do maintain their advantage. They had to. If they didn't, someone else who did took the lead. Such are the joys of contested content--it brings out the worst in people.

Some folks even see that as one of EQ's strengths. Not me. I'm uninterested in the EQ high-end and view it as outdated design which is best left in the dustbin of history.

All that being said, I dislike the notion of a forced rotation, especially one which applies to entire zones. How can a group of people who may not even be logged on 'own' an entire zone? The folks enforcing the rotation indicate that THEY don't like it either. Perhaps it's necessary for the time being to curb other, nastier behavior.

Let the nostalgia go away. This is one of EQ's fundamental flaws in action--too little content for too many people. Given that reality, no solution will make everyone happy, and most will leave everyone slightly unhappy.

Danth

[Supreme]

Are you in lala land? Is the sky fuchsia there? Have you not been around for very long?

You betray your ignorance in the very words you use in your post.

You accuse us of crying, but the crying on the forums that you are talking about originated with weeks of trans bashing us with lies and suppositions that were unsupported.

You accuse us of posting videos in protest, but the videos you are talking about originated when trans DIDN'T HAVE ANY PROOF OR EVIDENCE OF ANY KIND when they accused us of doing the exact things we HAVE SHOWN THEM DOING IN VIDEO.

You betray your ignorance in the very words you use my friend. It is very hard to soar with the eagles when all your friends are turkeys.

Another member of the Kool-Aid Krew (tm) donning his tin-foil hat.

..and that's the facts, Jack.


Wow.

Your post betrays your intelligence and maturity. All i can see lately is the serious butthurt posts of IB about a forced rotation.

You really have only yourselves to blame for all of this.

[Supreme]

Don't muddy the waters on this. These very boards were flooded with your members crying about how we received unfair GM assistance and other unfounded conspiracy theories.

IB had no reason to complain because we have been rolling your guild. The first time this trend was reversed was on the temporary forums when, unlike anyone else, there was video evidence of some scrubs pulling Phinny through a wall after being warned about the seahorses being an intended part of the encounter.

I'll admit to recently complaining about this new EQ affirmative action policy. We work hard to be better than you, but the noob quota needs to be filled it seems.

Congrats on your AEless Vox and "server first legit"(lol) Mayong kill.

Your post reeks of High School "we are better than you" mantra that only sub-voting juveniles are remotely interested in. Congrats you are the first on a EMU server to kill content that was created 10 years ago! If you are so uber then why are you here stroking each other here when you could be doing it on LIVE?? Rolling Transcendence....seriously.

IB was not complaining because they did not have to share anything for a time. Now is the time to share. The server is not all yours and apparently person(s) have realized that it is not "Just IB" and want to make sure that they promote a healthy community. I am positive that given time we will see more and more guilds able and asking to be a part of a sharing system.

Get over yourself already.

[Hasbinbad]

Wow.

Your post betrays your intelligence and maturity. All i can see lately is the serious butthurt posts of IB about a forced rotation.

You really have only yourselves to blame for all of this.

My intelligence and maturity causes me to directly address and defeat the arguments you bring up.
Your intelligence and maturity causes you to try and attack my character while ignoring the content of my words.

You see what you want to see I guess.

[Hasbinbad]

IB was not complaining because they did not have to share anything for a time.
This makes no sense.. ..hang on.
IB was complaining because they did not have to share anything for a time and now they do.
fix'd?

If so, allow me to retort:

IB was never in a situation where we didn't have to share. The DDOS attacks, mob issues, and server viability issues ensured that we didn't get the first shot at the content we worked so hard to get to before it became available to more people. We deserved that shot and had the rug pulled out from under us. We were stuck doing menial bullshit for weeks while the undedicated masses had a carebears dreamshot at catching up. Now that content is more available, these pricks who have trashed us for weeks demand that we give them equal treatment.

This is why IB was complaining.

[Supreme]

My intelligence and maturity causes me to directly address and defeat the arguments you bring up.
Your intelligence and maturity causes you to try and attack my character while ignoring the content of my words.

You see what you want to see I guess.

Attack what character. I do not even know you.

I can only use what you post on these forums to reference the kind of person i am dealing with.

Which began with your OP directed towards me. Please do not allow your emotions to be so easily controlled because self reflection has left you guessing.

[rachel]

Hello , I for one applaud the Gms. Their decision is very fair to everyone.

I would ask people on live to share one of their camps. At times they would Ks me and I was forced to call in a gm, as a last resort after asking to share. The Gm would make the other party share spawns, or the other party would be ported away/banned. That's the way it worked.


http://i863.photobucket.com/albums/ab192/rachelmathews_album/milkshake__kids_sharing_.jpg

Sharing is caring! Can't we play nice and let everyone enjoy the server.

[Supreme]

We deserved that shot and had the rug pulled out from under us. We were stuck doing menial bullshit for weeks while the undedicated masses had a carebears dreamshot at catching up. Now that content is more available, these pricks who have trashed us for weeks demand that we give them equal treatment.

This is why IB was complaining.


Wait you deserved that shot and had the rug pulled out based on your opinion? So this is more about what you feel you are entitled to and less about what is fair?

You must be making up for your failures on live to have to come to a EMU server to try and fight over (again) 10 year old content!

Take a moment and read the quote again. You are doing yourself NO favors.

[Zithax]

Hello , I for one applaud the Gms. Their decision is very fair to everyone.

I would ask people on live to share one of their camps. At times they would Ks me and I was forced to call in a gm, as a last resort after asking to share. The Gm would make the other party share spawns, or the other party would be ported away/banned. That's the way it worked.


Sharing is caring! Can't we play nice and let everyone enjoy the server. Not just the top guilds.

Where were all these people when we beta tested anyway?

I honestly can't tell if this is a joke or not.

Wait you deserved that shot and had the rug pulled out based on your opinion? So this is more about what you feel you are entitled to and less about what is fair?

You must be making up for your failures on live to have to come to a EMU server to try and fight over (again) 10 year old content!

Take a moment and read the quote again. You are doing yourself NO favors.

sup troll

[Supreme]

sup troll

sup :D

[Wrei]

You know if GM's are intent on "keeping everyone happy" and try to be "fair" (fair being w/e the gm's decide), what is the real issue here?

A. Is it the "experience" of re-living raid bosses? If you ask me that nostalgia gets old after killing any raid boss twice.

B. Is it the thrill of competing vs another rival guild?

C. Is it the potential of loot upgrades you may get for your toons?


You have 1 guild who is intent on re-living the full experience which was mostly about competition. I've played since Classic in a high end raiding guild, quit after PoP and moved on to WoW with some RL friends. WoW players never understood "the competitive" element because everything was catered to their needs.

In EQ when an officer shouts "GTF here at X zone" it meant gtf there right now, NOT after you banked your shit, not after you logged on an alt, NOT after you wait for 1 more spawn to pop, because if a few members slacked, a competing guild would already be there buffing and be ready to pull a boss. Look at every top guild in WoW atm and the majority of them have an EQ background, because they had raiding mentality. The casual minded players however want the same stuff the raiders want with as little effort as possible. Talking about how they got more RL issues, limited playtime blah blah blah... well guess what? You don't have to raid and a lot of you won't and there's NOTHING wrong with that. Afraid you won't see Naggy? Plenty of other guilds will get their naggy shot when a different tier of raiding pops in, do you think IB or trans will waste their time doing naggy when better content pops up? No, not if they are true raiding guilds.

So what this all means is that a bunch of casual minded players did not want to show effort in competing, decided to take action by actively sending emails to the gm's who eventually caved in to their needs. So how do you fix it? Well if your completely going to take out the "competition" element out of EQ, why not take it a step further, and just completely emulate WoW by doing these bosses as instances?

Yeah, Gm pops each boss per timer to EACH guild that wants a shot at it, i mean if your dead serious about sharing 1 boss mob with potentially 5+ other guilds eventually, why not just pop 1 for each guild? Your already telling your player base when you can kill a boss, may as well give 1 to everyone.

This is why this whole discussion is so pointless and why GM's should NEVER have gotten involved even if All trans people decided to do a mass suicide pact in RL, letting people resolve the issues would have been far wiser in the Long term of things....

[Finawin]

I come from both a PVP server and Township Rebellion on live, I understand where you guys are coming from and what you are trying to do. We used to whipe the server clean daily of anything that resembled a raid mob for no other reason than to prevent any other guild from getting remotely close to us (loot rotted about 90% of the time). We were extremely effective at this, and the GM's eventually got tired of it and forced rotations on us (Yes, GM forced rotations on live).

This is not live though, these are not new encounters and this is a nostalgic representation of a 10 year old game. Is 4 guilds getting 1 Naggy a month any better then 1 guild getting 4 Naggy and the others get nothing? No. There are 300+ people on this server, and they will eventually want to experience the raid side of things.

I fully embrace and expect other guilds to get into the rotation, and I will support it and even offer advice if needed. For me, killing Naggy at this point is about as exciting as heating up a pizza, but I enjoy watching others experience it for the first time. The people on this server came to relive or experience(for the first time) classic, including the raids, not to watch IB/Trans kill Naggy for the 36th time.

/thread

[Hasbinbad]

/thread
Known exploiters are not allowed to be quoted in a /thread.

Fail.

[Elysium]

Known exploiters are not allowed to be quoted in a /thread.

Fail.

Jesus christ, we get it, she exploited a raid mob. Shut the fuck up about it already if it doesn't pertain to the point.

[Seuriu]

in my opinion, competition is the most nostalgic factor of everquest~

while i do agree that everyone should be able to enjoy the server, and sharing is always nice (and i've never had a problem with sharing as long as the majority of the rival guild weren't complete faggots), competition is what made this game great.

[rachel]

6. Trans decides to put an exclamation mark on the current system. They showed up fourteen hours early for Nagafen's spawn. IB is completely incensed and decide "as a guild," as I have been told over and over, that the system they have been following for weeks should no longer apply to them. IB passed Trans (who have been ready to go for 14 hours) and decides they were going to sit in Nagafen's lair 20 minutes before he is supposed to spawn. This is when the rotation went into place..



Don't tell me other guilds will get to see Naggy , probably not until velious. You'll farm Naggy for cloaks for plats or trades don't even lie Wrei. Even after you have the Plane of Air haste items. The above quote answers All of your questions. Idknow. Rotation = less drama. Sounds great to me. It'd be nice to be able to have a shot at a raid mob without having to deal with 14hour sittings or Ib Leapfrogging a casual raiding guild.

[Hasbinbad]

casual raiding guild
I nominate this for the World's Greatest Euphamism.
I think casual is giving them far too much credit.
I think raiding is the pique of irony.

How many wipes does it take to get to the center of a tootsie plane?

kthxbyela~

[Erik]

I have an idea to make this work. Upgrade the raid bosses to super badassness so that no single guild could kill it alone. Forced cooperation would be good for these people. Maybe then they would realize how alike they are.

[Hasbinbad]

I have an idea to troll the forums. Upgrade the raid bosses to super badassness so that no single guild could kill it alone. Forced cooperation would be good for these people. Maybe then they would realize how alike they are.
Fix'd

[holkan]

Just let them go FFA on it. Let them train each other let them try to ks each other. Eventually one of them will give up or win. Tudah zero gm intervention needed. The better / more determined guild will get the mob. Or like someone suggested before let them guild war each other and whoever wins gets that current mob.

They probably hate each other anyway and want to do it.

[Supreme]

Just let them go FFA on it. Let them train each other let them try to ks each other. Eventually one of them will give up or win. Tudah zero gm intervention needed. The better / more determined guild will get the mob. Or like someone suggested before let them guild war each other and whoever wins gets that current mob.

They probably hate each other anyway and want to do it.

While that sounds acceptable its the collateral damage that causes the server to become toxic for the casual player. IB will have to realize that this is not their server and it is not their rules that everyone else must follow.

And now they are butthurt about it.

[rachel]

I have an idea to make this work. Upgrade the raid bosses to super badassness so that no single guild could kill it alone. Forced cooperation would be good for these people. Maybe then they would realize how alike they are.

That sounds good , I like this idea.

[rachel]

in my opinion, competition is the most nostalgic factor of everquest~

while i do agree that everyone should be able to enjoy the server, and sharing is always nice (and i've never had a problem with sharing as long as the majority of the rival guild weren't complete faggots), competition is what made this game great.

So sharing is based on your personal opinions of who is and isn't a faggot. Competition made this game hell and one guild cockblocks all the other players from enjoying the content.

[Reiker]

So sharing is based on your personal opinions of who is and isn't a faggot. Competition made this game hell and one guild cockblocks all the other players from enjoying the content.

You're one delusional human being. I'm not a professional football player but I don't cry because I don't have a super bowl ring. If you suck at EQ and can't kill raid mobs you shouldn't be allowed them. And you sure as damn hell better kill them legit instead of their AE abilities removed.

Trans 50-manned a broken MM that was pure melee and then ooced congratulating themselves on the server first legit kill. Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's being a faggot (not meant in a discriminatory way, just reusing the terminology used).

[Supreme]

You're one delusional human being. I'm not a professional football player but I don't cry because I don't have a super bowl ring. If you suck at EQ and can't kill raid mobs you shouldn't be allowed them. And you sure as damn hell better kill them legit instead of their AE abilities removed.

Trans 50-manned a broken MM that was pure melee and then ooced congratulating themselves on the server first legit kill. Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's being a faggot (not meant in a discriminatory way, just reusing the terminology used).


One point you are missing however.

No one is denied the CHANCE to play football or to become a professional football player. You have by proxy appointed yourselves as the authority to who will and will not be able to do the end game raid content.

The GMS/Devs recognize that this will not promote a healthy community/server and stepped in. The QQ and butthurt posts/tells is just a sober reminder of how SERIOUS some of you LoSers take this game.

[guineapig]

If you suck at EQ and can't kill raid mobs you shouldn't be allowed them.

This part I have to disagree with you on. Everyone on this server has every right to attempt any content they want regardless of whether or not the attempt will succeed. (Obviously a single group of level 30's should not be taken as a serious attempt at taking on Vox but within reason).

Who are you to decide who has rights to experience in game content?

[Cykubis]

I remember a quote somewhere about tears tasting like candy... whatever. At any rate, this thread actually is one of the more pathetic things I've seen in a while.

Seriously, just look at the intensity of all these posts. I hate to break it to you, but we're not professional football players, we're not hiking Mount Everest, and we're not pioneering unknown territories - in a real or virtual world. We're fucking playing Everquest, and on content that is over 10 years old. I'll bet a third of the people posting here aren't even wearing pants.

Now you seriously believe that this is being competitive? Let's see, we can't kill each other, train, KS. So pretty much the competition is what, to mobilize in a zone the fastest? Well, no because in your little world it's OK to just jump ahead of people who are already organized for a kill. So then the competition is the first to engage? That sure sounds fun, two raids sitting on top of each other hoping that when the mob spawns he agroes them first. No, that would just come down to luck and no one could really be called the "best". That leaves FFA, where I guess the competition would be whoever has the highest single group dps group to KS the targets. Sounds pretty stupid, tbh.

Now I'm not saying that one side is right on this issue, these boards have been polluted by completely retarded nonsense by people on both sides of the argument. Honestly I'm fucking embarrassed that gms had to intervene and enforce a rotation, but if people don't want to take their heads out of their asses and actually come up with a compromise, we're probably going to be stuck being babysat even further.

As for this idea that GMs shouldn't have gotten involved. I'd love to believe that was true, but have you happened to look at ooc or the boards in the past month? The animosity between IB and Trans is toxic and will drive away a lot of players who just want to relive some nostalgia. I know it's hard for some of us to believe, but the server doesn't revolve around a single guild or their opinions on how the server should be ran.

Fuck, just because this is a game doesn't mean that we need to act like children.

[Reiker]

Right, if you put in the effort, you can become a super bowl winning football team. The problem is no one is putting in the effort and still expecting to kill all the raid mobs and get all the loot. We kill dragons, you exploit and cry for rotation. Fear comes up in the middle of a tuesday, and we got a 20+ force on to clear the entire zone, and you cry for rotation. You're being defeated, yet still feel you should be equals.

[Bigcountry23]

Right, if you put in the effort, you can become a super bowl winning football team. The problem is no one is putting in the effort and still expecting to kill all the raid mobs and get all the loot. We kill dragons, you exploit and cry for rotation. Fear comes up in the middle of a tuesday, and we got a 20+ force on to clear the entire zone, and you cry for rotation. You're being defeated, yet still feel you should be equals.

So what you're saying is Rotation = Salery cap?

[Zexa]

So what you're saying is Rotation = Salery cap?

Dirty refs

[Penoy]

Right, if you put in the effort, you can become a super bowl winning football team. The problem is no one is putting in the effort and still expecting to kill all the raid mobs and get all the loot. We kill dragons, you exploit and cry for rotation. Fear comes up in the middle of a tuesday, and we got a 20+ force on to clear the entire zone, and you cry for rotation. You're being defeated, yet still feel you should be equals.

You are a badass sir..! Although being elite in EQ is equivalent to being the smartest kid with down syndrome. The server wont work if IB just comes in and steals raid mobs. If so you might as well play the Irreverant server, this isnt a live server, this is a small community... suck it up and just go by the rotation.....


HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS!

[Zexa]

We go by the rotation 100% Penoy.

What's wrong?

[Penoy]

We go by the rotation 100% Penoy.

What's wrong?

The thread is named Forced Rotation Isn't Classic

[Zexa]

The thread is named Forced Rotation Isn't Classic

And from that you extracted "Forced Rotation Isn't Classic So We Aren't Going to Follow It"

Sounds like a typical Giants fan :p

As a guild we're trying to play by the rules no matter how much we dislike them. We just dislike them even more when the competition can't even kill the content we share, but get rights to it anyways.

Vox should be sitting in her lair surrounded by about 200 Transcendence corpses right now, waiting for us to come loot her.

[cassaruby]

This is why we can't have nice things.

If we merge raiding guilds it should be called, The Greedy Babies.
Why do you guys need loot so bad, is it really that important?

I support:
1. make raid mobs 4 times harder
2. make it more difficult so this clusterfuck rat race works (people just need their asses kicked harder: raid mobs are end game content, and the content is being bulldosed.)
Also, people playing his server are good, and this content is too casual for them.
3. GM's stop trying to make this work so hard, we're at a point where your workload needs to be reduced. Stop babysitting, because it doesn't do anything for you, stop explaining yourselves unless it only takes 5min. (we respect you whether you babysit us or not, do your job and we are happy)

The problem can't be mediated, these people have already sunken so low, don't be dragged down.
(ban, ignore, mute are efficent tools)

[Zexa]

This is why we can't have nice things.

If we merge raiding guilds it should be called, The Greedy Babies.
Why do you guys need loot so bad, is it really that important?

I support:
1. make raid mobs 4 times harder
2. make it more difficult so this clusterfuck rat race works (people just need their asses kicked harder)

Who says anything about loot? We want fairness.

Trans is in a rotation with IB for Vox. Trans has done nothing but wipe to Vox. They have only managed to kill Vox twice after hours of wipes once Vox has been bugged out and her 500 DD AoE removed. They get to keep the loot both times.

I can accept that they are being given the chance to rotate if that's the only option we have, but I would expect that the guild we share it with be required to actually kill the content legitly.

[yaaaflow]

So sharing is based on your personal opinions of who is and isn't a faggot. Competition made this game hell and one guild cockblocks all the other players from enjoying the content.

Let's not act like there is one guild cockblocking everyone else from content. When I hit 40 I decided I'd like to get a manastone before they're removed. Glitch of Transcendence was on the camp, so I messaged her to ask to take it over when done, but she had promised it to Jeremy of Transcendence. When I messaged Jeremy he told me in no uncertain terms that I would not be getting access to the manastone camp until Transcendence was done with it, because they would just be passing it back and forth between their members until they had all the stones they wanted.

The next day Spectre (of transcendence of course) was on the camp, and he was to pass it back to Jeremy when he was done. Well he got 2 stones back to back before Jeremy was back online, and after I bugged him for a while about it agreed to pass it to me - but he did ensure I promised that I would get one stone and them immediately pass it back to Transcendence. I never did get a stone from the camp (fuck you evil eye), but did give the camp over to Jeremy when I had to leave for work.

Transcendence has no problem with dominating content to the exclusion of others when they're capable of it, just the same as IB is. As far as I can see they like the rotation primarily because it guarantee's them access to content they otherwise wouldn't be getting, not because they're just a generous bunch who wants to share content.

All this being said I hold no grudge against any Transcendence members since they're just looking out for their own interests and infact get along great with about 95% of their members that I've grouped with, which was many of them while I was leveling up. All I want people to take from this post is that Transcendence and IB are really about the same, they both want as much content for their own guild as they can get. In Transcendence's case that means the rotation is good, and in IB's case that means the rotation is bad.

[cassaruby]

Who says anything about loot? We want fairness.

Trans is in a rotation with IB for Vox. Trans has done nothing but wipe to Vox. They have only managed to kill Vox twice after hours of wipes once Vox has been bugged out and her 500 DD AoE removed. They get to keep the loot both times.

I can accept that they are being given the chance to rotate if that's the only option we have, but I would expect that the guild we share it with be required to actually kill the content legitly.

lol, who says we bought the hookers for prostitution, we didn't want to have sex with the hookers (no not us).
whatever you wants the loots and the power. the raid mobs were designed for loot and power. that's why there is an issue and why it can't be fair, unless people put fun before greed.

What's mo fun?:
1. an evening of killing a raid mob and celebrating
or
2. spending entirely too much time and bitching, over raid mobs, so you can be at the top of the rat race with loot and power?

You want fairness. Sorry the world isn't fair and never will be, we're all on the same boat and we all got to live here together. If you want fairness, then struggle hard and show it.

There will be no peace, without justice. and how can we serve justice, when we're a bunch of chickens running around with our heads cut off. look, we're all being retarded, and unless people start standing up and making stuff happen it never will.

Never will happen, unless enough people make it happen.

And that's what the GM's want (that's what we can do for this server if we try). Stand up, do good business or you can't have nice things.

Answer:
Greed and manipulation needs to stop.
Playing Everquest and having fun needs to increase
Raid mobs are a small sandbox, so respect it (or have fun playing in your sandbox full of catshit, wearing you're fancy robes that you had to dig threw a catshitty sandbox to find)

Problems:
Trans and IB feeding and strong rat race, decreasing fun (we gotta get lvls, we gotta get loot, we gotta be the best, we gotta catch em all, gotta gotaa gotttaaaaa AHHHHH!)
GM's over working
Lazy people crying all day

Also, and lastly i would recommend ignoring the trolls, or you will continue argueing over troll issues, and wasting everyone's time. bob and weave through the trolls, and post something useful.

[Seuriu]

So sharing is based on your personal opinions of who is and isn't a faggot. Competition made this game hell and one guild cockblocks all the other players from enjoying the content.

well yeah. friends share with friends, people do not share with people who they are not on good terms with. does that somehow not make sense to you?

the real issue here is lack of content at this point in time. there's not a lot of raid targets plain and simple and eventually that will change but not for awhile.
i'm all for giving guilds a shot to kill things and even doing a rotation since there is such a lack of content, if said guilds can kill it without exploiting or needing a second guild to win. that being said, i do not hold a leadership position in either guild (I'm not even 50 yet!) and i don't speak for anyone in my guild except myself~ /disclaimer.

everyone on this server is wound waaaaay too tight. you all need to relax. everyone playing on this server has something in common: we all love everquest. it'd be cool if we could stop being jerks to eachother 100% of the time.

[Elysium]

I remember a quote somewhere about tears tasting like candy... whatever. At any rate, this thread actually is one of the more pathetic things I've seen in a while.

Seriously, just look at the intensity of all these posts. I hate to break it to you, but we're not professional football players, we're not hiking Mount Everest, and we're not pioneering unknown territories - in a real or virtual world. We're fucking playing Everquest, and on content that is over 10 years old. I'll bet a third of the people posting here aren't even wearing pants.

Now you seriously believe that this is being competitive? Let's see, we can't kill each other, train, KS. So pretty much the competition is what, to mobilize in a zone the fastest? Well, no because in your little world it's OK to just jump ahead of people who are already organized for a kill. So then the competition is the first to engage? That sure sounds fun, two raids sitting on top of each other hoping that when the mob spawns he agroes them first. No, that would just come down to luck and no one could really be called the "best". That leaves FFA, where I guess the competition would be whoever has the highest single group dps group to KS the targets. Sounds pretty stupid, tbh.

Now I'm not saying that one side is right on this issue, these boards have been polluted by completely retarded nonsense by people on both sides of the argument. Honestly I'm fucking embarrassed that gms had to intervene and enforce a rotation, but if people don't want to take their heads out of their asses and actually come up with a compromise, we're probably going to be stuck being babysat even further.

As for this idea that GMs shouldn't have gotten involved. I'd love to believe that was true, but have you happened to look at ooc or the boards in the past month? The animosity between IB and Trans is toxic and will drive away a lot of players who just want to relive some nostalgia. I know it's hard for some of us to believe, but the server doesn't revolve around a single guild or their opinions on how the server should be ran.

Fuck, just because this is a game doesn't mean that we need to act like children.

Quoting this for every page this manbaby argument continues.

[Supreme]

I am glad there will be rotation it is something that does not only benefit Transcendence but will benefit ANY guild that comes up.

[Jero]

keeping raid mobs on rotation might be the silliest thing i ever heard , first come first serve is how its always been ....

i would rather address the issue of 50's claiming camp on entire zones , so silly they feel they have the right to an entire zone while groups of people want to go there get exp and maybe a named spawn, but they can't cause of the greed in some of the Trans and IB players

[Recyclebin]

Great post Cykubis...

Personally I have a 23 druid, 11 cleric and 11 warrior at the moment and the IB/Trans stuff makes it very hard for me to want to get level 50...right now I am just having fun and not concerning myself about how fast I can get to 50 to raid 10 year old content.

I like advertising for the server and try to drive population to the server and i've seen a handful of days lately where Crushbone has anywhere from 7-20 people in it and that to me...is AWESOME..However I constantly hope when I direct someone to this project that don't see this insanely immature guild bickerfest on the forums.

Fortunately I leveled up before reading the forums much. I know between IB and Trans you guys have a whole lot of level 50's between you why don't you help out your lesser player? Community service of sorts -- Guilds that can't play nice should be forced to power level lesser players or assist lower level players or face actual punishment (removal of OOC, shut down PoF or any other raid zones, etc.)

[Allizia]

As a guild we're trying to play by the rules no matter how much we dislike them. We just dislike them even more when the competition can't even kill the content we share, but get rights to it anyways.

Vox should be sitting in her lair surrounded by about 200 Transcendence corpses right now, waiting for us to come loot her.

Are you serious? We have whiped ONE time to Vox, and that was an unintentional pull.

Unless you are referring to the 4 hours of nonstop DDoS where we whiped because the server crashed as we pulled her?

We just killed Vox with ONE death (the puller) and we have killed Naggy flawlessly with LESS people then IB uses.

You guys amaze me, seriously. Go 10 man Efreeti some more, let me know when you are done so I can duo/solo it.

How about I laugh at IB for whiping to CT (the easiest boss in classic), when we one shot him first try.

This BS is why we don't get along ~

[Reiker]

How about I laugh at IB for whiping to CT (the easiest boss in classic), when we one shot him first try.

This BS is why we don't get along ~

You mean the BS like the fact that we've never once wiped to CT?

[Zithax]

Are you serious? We have whiped ONE time to Vox, and that was an unintentional pull.

Unless you are referring to the 4 hours of nonstop DDoS where we whiped because the server crashed as we pulled her?

We just killed Vox with ONE death (the puller) and we have killed Naggy flawlessly with LESS people then IB uses.

You guys amaze me, seriously. Go 10 man Efreeti some more, let me know when you are done so I can duo/solo it.

How about I laugh at IB for whiping to CT (the easiest boss in classic), when we one shot him first try.

This BS is why we don't get along ~

Everything in this quote is a flat-out lie, just to clarify.

1) Trans' first 2 Vox kills were without her AE.
1b) IB has never fought any boss that did not have their AE.
2)We can 3man efreeti with a paladin healer and two melee's, so jumping to that conclusion makes you cool.
3) IB has never wiped to CT, meanwhile Trans will charm a scareling (lol) engage draco, wipe, and cause draco to poof.
4) Trans has never done any raid target with less people than IB, this is purely untrue sir.

I don't have anything against you now, nor against any other Trans member, but posting this nonsense really devalues your intelligence and integrity in my mind. I for one do not appreciate the spread of disinformation, especially when it was an attempt to smear myself or my guild.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself, kid.

[Allizia]

I for one do not appreciate the spread of disinformation, especially when it was an attempt to smear myself or my guild.


And neither do I.

[Zithax]

And neither do I.

Point is everything you stated in your post was a lie. Everything in my post is completely true.

There is however an exception, the Mayong Mistmoore fight, which was a test fight sanctioned by the GM staff.

[Allizia]

Point is everything you stated in your post was a lie. Everything in my post is completely true.

There is however an exception, the Mayong Mistmoore fight, which was a test fight sanctioned by the GM staff.

You sir, have missed the point entirely.

[Pheer]

Is this the part where you try to cover yourself by saying you knew what you were saying was untrue and that you were trying to prove some kind of point allizia?

[karsten]

You guys amaze me, seriously. Go 10 man Efreeti some more, let me know when you are done so I can duo/solo it.

did you really just try to make fun of people's skill level by pointing out the fact that certain classes can solo better than others?

[Allizia]

did you really just try to make fun of people's skill level by pointing out the fact that certain classes can solo better than others?

Similar to IB using a DDoS attack/server crash to accuse us of chain whiping to Vox? Yes. Want to buy some GEB's or Djarn ring?

[Hasbinbad]

This BS is why we don't get along ~
You know something Allizia, I was actually beginning to not gag at the sound of your name again until you drag out an argument that has been dead for a week to flame my friend.

I totally disagree about why we don't get along. I think it has much more to do with your tattle-tale style and your butthurt minions. Are you fucking kidding me? You're the Kool-Aid Krew. You guys whined and lied and sniveled and bitched at us for weeks and weeks until you made the GM's come play daddy to shut it down.

Please do not confuse my respectful and polite tone for familiarity or good-will. I seriously hope you guys poke electrical outlets with forks in your spare time. That being said, we don't need to resort to that kind of attitude at all times. When a compromise needs to be reached, we can sit down and talk about it like adults, but don't you ever think that you can quantify the reasons for why we don't get along with some out-of-context post Zexa made 2 damn weeks ago. I for one will never see you in a friendly light, 2-faced Allizia, so you can knock that "get along" shit right the fuck off.

Are you serious? We have whiped ONE time to Vox, and that was an unintentional pull.
Boldfaced lie.

Unless you are referring to the 4 hours of nonstop DDoS where we whiped because the server crashed as we pulled her?
This is one of the wipes mentioned. The DDOS happened, and it sucked, but it wasn't exactly game-breaking. We felt it with you, so don't even fucking try to say that the DDOS made it impossible. You wiped and you wiped (bad prep, bad pulls, ddos lag, whatever), until someone in your group realized that Vox's AE was bugged out, so you decided to kill her with what was LEFT of your raid force after most of the people left due to lag/failure. Lest there be any doubt as to your intentions, let me remind everyone that you attempted and killed Vox with 14 people. I'm sorry, but at the time - given the gear and levels involved - there is no way that you could have even imagined that would be legit.

We just killed Vox with ONE death (the puller) and we have killed Naggy flawlessly with LESS people then IB uses.
Yes, now that you have whined your way in to a rotation, and now that the zerg army of 20's you started with is 40+, your shitty guild FINALLY has enough numbers and gear to kill Vox. Great job!

You guys amaze me, seriously. Go 10 man Efreeti some more, let me know when you are done so I can duo/solo it.
Don't pretend like we can't Allizia, you may have been the first 50 chanter, but PLEASE don't pretend to have more skill than our heavy hitters. You will be laughed at a lot.

How about I laugh at IB for whiping to CT (the easiest boss in classic), when we one shot him first try.
Go ahead, we don't mind. If we wipe, that is lame of us. What's your point? Correlating an honest wipe to a raid boss with your long, illustrious, action packed history of shady behavior is only going to confuse the weak and ill-informed. People who have any decent amount of common sense or actually know better see the Kool-Aid Krew for what it is now, what it was when it started, and what it will turn into.

[Bigcountry23]

Everything in this quote is a flat-out lie, just to clarify.
3) IB has never wiped to CT, meanwhile Trans will charm a scareling (lol) engage draco, wipe, and cause draco to poof.


Correlating an honest wipe to a raid boss with your long, illustrious, action packed history of shady behavior is only going to confuse the weak and ill-informed.

Not to sound weak and ill-informed but did or didn't IB wipe to CT (Honest or otherwise)?

Sorry, my copy of the national inquirer didn't show up today and I need gossip.

[Hasbinbad]

Want to buy some GEB's or Djarn ring?
I heard you guys were looking to buy some phinny loot. Need some help?

Roffle.

[Allizia]

Everything in this quote is a flat-out lie, just to clarify.

1) Trans' first 2 Vox kills were without her AE. And this factors into the discussion how? Oh, I remember,we found a way to break the script with our l33t hax skills and it was all our fault. Even though GM's/Dev's have stated on several occasions that it was an issue with the script and could happen to either of us.
1b) IB has never fought any boss that did not have their AE. See above, grats? What are we supposed to do about it? Repop her and we will kill her again.
2)We can 3man efreeti with a paladin healer and two melee's, so jumping to that conclusion makes you cool. GG? We have 3 manned FG's and have at least 3 members that regularly solo efreeti. This was just a plug for the old days of IB raiding efreeti.
3) IB has never wiped to CT, meanwhile Trans will charm a scareling (lol) engage draco, wipe, and cause draco to poof. I've heard from several sources in IB that this is untrue, although it was an "unintentional pull" The Dracho part is absolutely true, which is a first. Use this one more, we had 15 people on.
4) Trans has never done any raid target with less people than IB, this is purely untrue sir. CT with 19, Phinny with 5 (necro to pull horses, cleric to heal, chanter for clarity, 2 mages), Vox with 14 (You are correct, she didn't AoE though. After 4 hours of DDoS we dwindled from 30 peeps to 14) Flawless Naggy with what, 18? The point is, We have similar numbers, so calling us zerg is ridiculous. I've seen IB with 25-30ish on a raid regularly

I don't have anything against you now, nor against any other Trans member, but posting this nonsense really devalues your intelligence and integrity in my mind. I for one do not appreciate the spread of disinformation, especially when it was an attempt to smear myself or my guild.

Check yourself before you wreck yourself, kid. My thoughts exactly, I'm responding to your BS attacks, not the other way around.

Grats

[Hasbinbad]

Not to sound weak and ill-informed but did or didn't IB wipe to CT (Honest or otherwise)?
It doesn't matter, that's the point.

IF IB wipes to a mob, it's coz we fucked up. Someone did something stupid and we lost momentum. WHEN trans wipes to mobs on a consistent basis, it's because they lack the skill to wrangle a zerg force properly to get the mob down.

WHEN IB kills a mob for loot, it's because we executed a plan and followed the rules. IF trans ever manages to finally smother a mob under sheer weight of numbers, it's usually (so far the vast majority) because they have somehow managed to encounter mobs without legitimately clearing the entire encounter or with bugged scripts that are MUCH easier to kill than they should be.

The exact details of IB's raid history is IB's business. What you need to know is that we play by the rules while trans likes to exploit or complete bugged out encounters.

[Bigcountry23]

I guess I don't get the raiding stratergy of "less is best". Personally, I would like a guild that had a larger population on raids (meaning more people are invited, better chance for survival and defete of the monster, meaning a better distribution of the loot to the members).

/shrug, I'm just gonna go back to lurking.

[Hasbinbad]

Big, taking down a raid boss with less numbers reflects on the skill of those people. It's not hard and fast, but generally speaking if you can accomplish the same task with less people, you have more skill. We're not really trying to boast here, but when Jimllizia Jones and the Kool-Aid Krew comes around saying they do what we do with less people than we do it, something needs to be said.

About "Zerg."
In my experience, the word "Zerg" does not just mean "a lot of people," it means "lots of unskilled, inexperienced, disposable people that you pile on top of a target and suffocate it with pure mass."

..a large raid may be skilled, and an inexperienced raid may be few in number. Neither of these are zergs, but a majority of Tranny raids have been.

[Hasbinbad]

We have similar numbers, so calling us zerg is ridiculous.

Hardly. Also, as I stated above, it is not just numbers that determine your zerginess.

My thoughts exactly, I'm responding to your BS attacks, not the other way around.
Excuse me, this was a dead and done-with discussion until you dragged out a 2-week old post that has nothing to do with current events. If you want to start drama, don't fucking flame someone who had something to say 2 weeks ago, just make a new post and call me names, I'll tango with you Jimmy.

[Allizia]

Big, taking down a raid boss with less numbers reflects on the skill of those people. It's not hard and fast, but generally speaking if you can accomplish the same task with less people, you have more skill. We're not really trying to boast here, but when Jimllizia Jones and the Kool-Aid Krew comes around saying they do what we do with less people than we do it, something needs to be said.

About "Zerg."
In my experience, the word "Zerg" does not just mean "a lot of people," it means "lots of unskilled, inexperienced, disposable people that you pile on top of a target and suffocate it with pure mass."

..a large raid may be skilled, and an inexperienced raid may be few in number. Neither of these are zergs, but a majority of Tranny raids have been.

So...Trans has flawless dragon kills, one shot CT, whiped at 30% to Draco with 15 people first try, whiped once to vox (not counting server crashes, with GM rezzes from an IB Dev who watched it), average raid size 20 people = zerg?

IB almost whipes to Naggy every kill (I see naked people all over the place everytime IB raids naggy ), whiped to CT, whiped once to Vox, Fails to break into PoF with 20 people, average raid size 20 people = not zerg?

I think I get it now. I agree, this is a 2 week old post that someone resurrected though. Yeck

[karsten]

last night i pulled nagafen when nobody was ready on purpose and i warned them in vent beforehand, but my mic had come unplugged so nobody actually heard me.

We won anyways AND i got to tank it myself after getting the warriors killed which was my plan all along.

I wouldn't have done that with you guise tho cuz if a guild takes over an hour to prep for nagafen after going through fgs, or seven hours to clear fear, it strikes me that the whole "thinking on one's feet and reacting correctly to change" thing isn't your strong point!

p.s. times IB has wiped to ct: 0

[Hasbinbad]

http://userpages.bright.net/%7Edapoets/koolaid.jpg..
I agree, this is a 2 week old post that someone resurrected though. Yeck
Fix'd

[Ektar]

the strength of less is best is that you have fewer people to gear up. Simple example... with 15 melees, you need 15 cloaks of flame. with 30 melees, you need 30 cloaks of flame.

Now that's just an example, obviously cloaks of flame will just help, whether 15/15 have it or 15/30. But equate that to everything else, and you now have 15/15 useful members on the raid instead of 15/30 (useful is a strong term, but work with me I'm about to leave!).

Now, it may seem that it wouldn't hurt to have those extra 15 people. However, it can. With every person there is a chance of doing something wrong. With the extra people, you have a greater chance of an error occurring. Half of these people are unessential to the raid, and therein is the strength of less is best.


This post is merely an objective reply. I am not throwing judgments at either side, mkay. However, this is what is meant by calling trans a "zerg" guild (once again, while I may or may not think this personally, it is NOT what I am voicing here).

Love,

Ektar "Staying Out of the Hate" Sexbot

fucking christ, like 5 posts got in while I was posting this. this one is meant for after the question of what is less is best =p

[Allizia]

1b) IB has never fought any boss that did not have their AE.

First Naggy what? MM what? It's ok though, because yall "Thought about deleting the loot" setting the example for the future

[Hasbinbad]

..whiped.. ..whiped.. ..whipes.. ..whiped.. ..whiped..
Are you perchance related to Whill Wheaton?

[Allizia]

Are you perchance related to Whill Wheaton?

I knew it didn't look right, thanks! <3

[Reiker]

First naggy had AEs... we've never wiped to CT... just shut the fuck up Allizia, you're too dumb to post.

[Allizia]

Fix'd

Actually, it was Recyclebin that resurrected it last night and I just saw it, /avoids blame :D

[Hasbinbad]

First Naggy what? MM what? It's ok though, because yall "Thought about deleting the loot" setting the example for the future
You're second fiddle, just accept it. You don't do things the right way and it's obvious.

I don't hate you for that, I'm sure we've all tried to figure out how to beat the rules from time to time on this and other games.
I don't hate you because you're not very skilled; not everyone has now or had at one point the opportunity or time to waste building the certain skillset to raid in EQ.
I don't hate you for those things.

I hate you because you try to claw up at us with your filthy zerg talons to try and drag yourselves up or us down, whatever is necessary. You swear up and down that black is white and that up is down.

First it was that "IB hax," then it was "IB sploits," then it was "IB took our mawbs" (dey took r mawbs!), and now it's "IB wipes," or "IB is a zerg," or "IB fights bugged dragons!"

Give me a fucking break!! Of the things YOU GUYS bitch about the most, YOU ARE GUILTY of 90% of it while we are completely baffled in our innocence; why would you accuse us of doing the stupid shit you yourselves do?

However, because others might be confused by your smoke and mirrors, I will elucidate the details of the issues you put forth.

Mistmoore was being actively tweaked by a long term dev GM as we killed him several times. He was repopped several times and we were not allowed to keep the loot several times. When we were finally allowed to keep a SFS, this was an active decision by a long term dev GM. I hate to keep bringing up bygones, but since it is relevant: when your raid was allowed to keep a SFS, this was an oversight by a new GM who left inexplicably in the middle of your encounter.

Our first Nagafen did in fact AE. Several GM's watched (and cheered afterwards) as we took down the server's first dragon. The script executed properly; the first, and every Nagafen we've killed was 100% legit.

[Dartagnan]

So I take it that the GMs have agreed to continue this rotation as is?

The Holidays have been busy for me and I haven't seen any posts stating what direction the GMs have decided to go on this issue.

Last GM interaction I know of was Nilbog's post about spawn variance but didn't really see any decision?

Someone let me know :D

[Allizia]

First it was that "IB hax," then it was "IB sploits," then it was "IB took our mawbs" (dey took r mawbs!), and now it's "IB wipes," or "IB is a zerg," or "IB fights bugged dragons!"

Give me a fucking break!! Of the things YOU GUYS bitch about the most, YOU ARE GUILTY of 90% of it while we are completely baffled in our innocence; why would you accuse us of doing the stupid shit you yourselves do?

Sucks huh =/ It goes both ways.

[Muerte]

Some things to think about.

- Soon other guilds will also be able to go to POF and POH once it opens up, what then?

- Where do we draw the line? Someone suggested earlier rotating the ishva mal, this sounds ridiculous to me.

- Forced rotation let's players be less competitive. Everquest is a competitive game, if you want the best stuff you have to be competitive.


Ideally, guild leaders should be able to negotiate with each other, but there will always be problems. These problems are part of everquest, it is a competitive game, there will always be "winners" and "losers".

GM's should step only when another guild shows up and tries to take control; e.g., a guild is preparing for CT and another guild shows up and begins preparing also.

I was in a good guild many years ago, we would periodically set up rotations with other guilds, and we would often race other guilds to targets. If we mobilized first, the other guild had enough respect to leave the zone. Our guild leader handled all negotiations with other guilds, and things were usually civil.

Officers and other members rarely had any part in the negotiations, it was always our guild leader who took control when it came to major targets. This worked very well for us, and it was the reason we were so successful.

I am not suggesting that this is how it should be, the guild leader making all decisions, but if you have solid guild leader and he is making all negotiations with other guild leaders, this results in less drama because less people are involved. I see a lot of people making comments(in another thread) and I know they cannot all be guild leaders:)

Let the leader speak for the guild, and send your complaints his/her way, let him/her do their job and lead.

Just my thoughts.

[Reiker]

That's part of the problem. I like a majority of Transcendence, but their leadership is a bunch of dumb kids.

[Zithax]

What's with the long posts? Hasbin is my guildie but... shit I am not reading that :(

[Zexa]

Trans leaders think charming mobs that proc shadow step to fight raid mobs is a good idea.

They are so bad that we actually lose out on raid mobs due to their lack of skill. i.e. Draco, Vox

[Recyclebin]

Wow I made a post 3-4 pages ago and it gets completely ignored and drowned out by the exact same fucken childish banter.

IB/Trans bullshit on and on and on and on and on.

Amazing, you guys have fun measuring your e-dicks against each other on emulated server doing 10 year old content, try thinking about more than just yourselves and your respective elitist poop socking guilds for 5 seconds, you've involved the entire GM staff and development team in this bullshit while the rest of the server sits at the side lines watching you dicks set the precedent for how things "will be done" in the future. (This is the part where my characters get black listed and treated like shit because of my personal opinion and not taking sides with Guild A or Guild B)

I honestly couldn't care less or whose right or wrong or if there is anyone to point a finger at this point, but holy shit I can't believe how you guys are arguing about the same shit 20 pages later.

I really feel sorry for the staff/dev team at this point, mind you they shouldn't have characters in any of these guilds to begin with (personal opinion and preference from someone whose been involved in many emu server projects over the last 9-10 years from UO - > EQ : shit never works out if staff participate on the server with a player account and its publicly known that they are a GM/staff, i've had staff personally bend rules for me as a player before, don't say it hasn't been done here, i've had servers with a motto of NO GM INTERVENTION etc blah blah but when the server finally got shut down and logs were leaked, it was easy to read the lies once things came to a end.

Now mind you this isn't about GMs/Staff having accounts, it certainly doesn't help the entire IB vs Trans drama wagon, but I am at a loss for words at this point, can you guys not like play nice? What happened to that thread where the two guilds were actually participating together and clearing a plane and being respectful of each other

What the fuck?

:(

[karsten]

opposing sides of mmorpgs throw shit at each other all day -- that shouldn't really surprise anyone, and the GMs need not expend the emotional energy trying to control it. It's what leads to GM burnout, and again, my recommendation is that the GMs wash their hands of getting involved in disputes like this -- it will free up their time for doing development or helping people in need or anything else, and it'll also allow them to be forced to deal with much less drama on a daily basis.

[Recyclebin]

opposing sides of mmorpgs throw shit at each other all day -- that shouldn't really surprise anyone, and the GMs need not expend the emotional energy trying to control it. It's what leads to GM burnout, and again, my recommendation is that the GMs wash their hands of getting involved in disputes like this -- it will free up their time for doing development or helping people in need or anything else, and it'll also allow them to be forced to deal with much less drama on a daily basis.

Quoted for fucken truth

[Allizia]

It's just rants and flames =P In all honesty I respect plenty of members from IB (including Hasbinbad 50% of the time, Zexa 90% of the time and Tiki 10% of the time), I just get sick of the pointless rage posts and the elitist attitude in regards to everything (we don't need to position TT's cause we always resist it!, Trans is zerg! Ban Trans! Vox didn't AoE!), so I throw some shit back at them from time to time. We had a near forum silence policy for a long time, and it just left (some members of) IB free to slander and belittle others while prancing around on their high horse.

No one will ever be right here, no revolutionary points will be made, it's the forum trash can. 90% of the content here is heavily biased at best.

[Wonton]

I was just having fun, sorry :P

[Hasbinbad]

[/u]

Sucks huh =/ It goes both ways.
No, lol, it doesn't.
You guys do all that shit, and say that we do it. That we say that you do it is just the truth. That you say that we do it but don't is lying. There _is_ a difference between us.

[Hasbinbad]

I respect plenty of members from IB (including Hasbinbad 50% of the time, Zexa 90% of the time and Tiki 10% of the time).. ..90% of the content here is heavily biased at best.
Did you know that 64% of the time, statistics are made up on the spot every time?

[Allizia]

No, lol, it doesn't.


Uh huh! I like your avatar btw.

[Recyclebin]

Man I logged in wanted to get my level real fast, 37ish druid sitting infront of me in CB, I ask if I could bum a DS/Regen, first time I don't get a response, fine.
I ask again "Sorry im busy" (dude, your right in front of me, powerleveling your friend right infront of me) then I ask if I can donate and he throws up a /anon tag like that's going to hide the fact he's a fucken druid.

CB was hopping the last few nights, now I login and some dickhead won't spare 40m of his bar to buff me when I asked nicely and kindly and states they are "busy" when they are right in front of me doing nothing.

I wish these type of people would just have a guild tag that says "Sorry don't talk to me, I have no interest in helping other players out"

[Hasbinbad]

I like your avatar btw.
Thanks!

[drplump]

Man I logged in wanted to get my level real fast, 37ish druid sitting infront of me in CB, I ask if I could bum a DS/Regen, first time I don't get a response, fine.
I ask again "Sorry im busy" (dude, your right in front of me, powerleveling your friend right infront of me) then I ask if I can donate and he throws up a /anon tag like that's going to hide the fact he's a fucken druid.

CB was hopping the last few nights, now I login and some dickhead won't spare 40m of his bar to buff me when I asked nicely and kindly and states they are "busy" when they are right in front of me doing nothing.

I wish these type of people would just have a guild tag that says "Sorry don't talk to me, I have no interest in helping other players out"
HA that was me! Once I had the mana and free time I buffed everyone in CB for 20 minutes its was a good time.

[Finawin]

Anyone "too busy" to click, but has time to type "I'm busy" is a prick. I don't think I've ever been that busy in all my years as a cleric, where I couldn't click a buff on someone in passing.

Certainly not too busy when I'm pling noobs under 20.

[Allizia]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543

[Hasbinbad]

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543
Eat my ass you fucking troll!

roffle!

[Ektar]

what's the origin of rick rolled please!

[drplump]

Anyone "too busy" to click, but has time to type "I'm busy" is a prick. I don't think I've ever been that busy in all my years as a cleric, where I couldn't click a buff on someone in passing.

Certainly not too busy when I'm pling noobs under 20.

I had 5% mana and 2 people waiting on me. The guy who was getting PLed and the monk who was pulling. I also had 3 or 4 tells from different people asking for buffs. Its ok your about to be a perma prick because im just going to message you everytime i see you demanding you come powerlevel me.

[Finawin]

Yeah, that will surely mess my day up!

[Swank]

.

[Trimm]

I thought we were finally over this :(

[Hasbinbad]

I thought we were finally over this :(
"We" were. Morons who resurrect long-dead posts because they can't read the post dates aren't. Awesome!

[Xzerion]

thanks swank

[Swank]

My honest bad on this, didn't realize how old the post was, like I said, haven't been around the boards for awhile.

It's nice to see in these two weeks of apparent peace you haven't learned any class or tact Hasbinbad. And for clarification your sig is incorrect, you didn't need an IB in front of your name at all.

[Hasbinbad]

It's nice to see in these two weeks of apparent peace you haven't learned any class or tact Hasbinbad.
On the contrary, I am fully capable of implementing tact and class, I simply choose not to.

And for clarification your sig is incorrect, you didn't need an IB in front of your name at all.
You shouldn't start a sentence with "and."

[IPBannedfornoreason]

On the contrary, I am fully capable of implementing tact and class, I simply choose not to.


You shouldn't start a sentence with "and."

Your a homo

[Finawin]

you're

[IPBannedfornoreason]

your gay

[messiah_b]

No u.

[Supreme]

My mom can beat up your mom.

[quido]

Reading this got me hard.

[Tibador]

OOOOOO baby !

[Tiggles]

Reading this got me hard.

It's funny reading these posts

IB has been shitting up this server for such a long time.

TMO should be treated like Heroes and Kings for griefing them off the server.

[Harrison]

Revisionist history taking its course here, nothing new.

IB didn't start shitting up the server until WAY later.

DA and now TMO have been shitting up the server since Fishbait.

[Rilen]

Revisionist history taking its course here, nothing new.

IB didn't start shitting up the server until WAY later.

DA and now TMO have been shitting up the server since Fishbait.

What the fuck is going on today why do I agree with Harrison?

Shite state of affairs.. Shite state indeed.

[Harrison]

But don't get me wrong, at some point, IB changed into a shitfest of the same level of faggotry now employed by DA/TMO zerglings.

[Tibador]

Thats your opinion Harrison you did not have to deal with IB early on i did so you have no idea so kindly shut up with your anti TMO shit.

[Harrison]

I did have to deal with IB early on, and they were nothing but helpful to me and pretty much everyone I knew at the time.

Very different from what they turned into in the end. But, that's what happens when you have to deal with DA I suppose. You turn into the very shitbags you're fighting against.

[Tibador]

really so you were around when first naggy kills first planes opened ?

[Harrison]

First naggy not entirely.(was on server but not high enough to participate)

Planes, yes.

[Rilen]

I did have to deal with IB early on, and they were nothing but helpful to me and pretty much everyone I knew at the time.

Very different from what they turned into in the end. But, that's what happens when you have to deal with DA I suppose. You turn into the very shitbags you're fighting against.

Er, yeah. When I joined the server it was IB vs DA and DA was winning. When DW/IB formed TR I joined up and they took the top spot sans bullshit. As I recall the "fusion" happened then The Mystical Ascension and their bloody rise is history (or not I guess if you smoke rocks). You guys did nothing but increase GM scrutiny, and badger everyone for "more clearly defined rules" which really just translates to "more rules".

I didn't raid classic for any longer than 3 weeks but, in my time there, I didn't see anyone training entire guilds for FTE or having shitfits when they didn't get it. Recall that it was you guys that started trying to pull VS to zone rather than prep in the room, and remember it was you guys that started the shit and caught the first raid suspension.

Everything past that, in my eyes, is IB following suit. Is that the adult thing to do? Hell no. It's why I left the fucking guild. But they did nothing other than maintain status quo.

I still remember several raids where a guild would be buffing/prepping for a target and we would allow them the attempt (I don't think anyone succeeded but BDA is a bunch of jokes *cough*).

[username1337]

So who are TMO's attorney at Lulz? I'm quite frankly happy that TMO, despite their asshattery, are around - real quality entertainment on these forums as a result.