Is Pantheon Really Going to Happen?

[nilzark]

Experts chime in. What are the chances of Pantheon actually being released? How long will it take?

[Quineloe]

according to P99 Nirrtix - Dayna Gilbert, we are looking at a working alpha in the next 6 months

[nilzark]

Well if that's true, that is encouraging. I would totally help test.

[Juhstin]

I doubt it

[nilzark]

Yea, 6 months seems optimistic. Think about how many people it takes to develop and manage a game like that.

[jarshale]

Unless someone donates $341,408 in 20 minutes, it's not happening.

[Sirken]

from my talks with them, it sounded like Alpha was about 10-12 months out, but maybe thats changed or maybe i misheard. the last thing they want to do is rush this game.

Kickstarter was only one option, keep eyes on their website (http://www.patheonrotf.com) and pay attention for ways to help!

[nilzark]

I hear ya Sirken. I hope it turns out. But it will be akin to Valve's timeline for Half-Life 2 it seems.

[Champion_Standing]

I hear ya Sirken. I hope it turns out. But it will be akin to Valve's timeline for Half-Life 2 it seems.

Not a valid comparison at all, Valve will actually deliver a quality game. McQuaid will only deliver sorrow and failure.

[nilzark]

True, but I could have programmed Half-Life 2 Episode 3 in JAVA by now.

[Thulack]

Funny how they have a link for Project Norrath(EQ next) at bottom of page right next to pantheon website on that new forum. So this means no one getting early access to velious since its not gonna fund or can i just throw my money at them on their site and still manage to get it?

[arsenalpow]

kickstarter didn't make it, womp womp

[LostCause]

brade just needs money for oxies

[LostCause]

BRAD** double post BOOOYAH

[Kayso]

I have zero faith in someone who'd leave $460K of free money on the table.

Between the entire team they couldn't pool together $340K? None of them have retirement accounts to borrow against? Or houses to borrow against? Or relatives who wanted to make some easy money?

Crackheads.

[Champion_Standing]

I have zero faith in someone who'd leave $460K of free money on the table.

Between the entire team they couldn't pool together $340K? None of them have retirement accounts to borrow against? Or houses to borrow against? Or relatives who wanted to make some easy money?

Crackheads.

Yeah because draining your retirement savings to fund Brads game sounds like a real solid investment, easy money for sure!

[Derubael]

(http://pjpantheon.com/) and pay attention for ways to help!

It's www.pantheonrotf.com

pjpantheon is just an unofficial fan site.

[Derubael]

also, i fixed the link in your post.

[nilzark]

I think the main problem is they jumping back into a genre that is spread thin and they are seem to be targeting niche players with a nod toward everyone else. In the end, financers are going to have a hard time backing this one. If they really believe in the dream, they should go Open Source, but that doesn't $$.

[Visual]

I have zero faith in someone who'd leave $460K of free money on the table

If nothing else, it serves as a demonstration to future investors that there is a strong following for the game.

[nilzark]

$460k not a lot of money to Sony, Blizzard, Valve, Bethesda, Ubisoft, ...

[Kayso]

Yeah because draining your retirement savings to fund Brads game sounds like a real solid investment, easy money for sure!

If $340K is "draining" your retirement, you're not the target investor. There are, however, plenty of people who would and should risk $340K for a quick lucrative payday.

You don't leave free money on the table. Period.

[Kayso]

If nothing else, it serves as a demonstration to future investors that there is a strong following for the game.

That might be true. I don't disagree. That's also not my point...

They walked away from $460K. Think about that. They had a chance to put their hands on almost 1/2 MILLION dollars in free money and couldn't even "rent" a loan from a relative or friend.

Its not about rather the game will ever get made or rather it will suck if it does. Its about a group of adults who 1) aren't trusted enough to borrow $340K or 2) are too inept to go after that money.

[BahamutDF]

Yeah that's why I don't understand about this. $450k was pledged. Why are they not able to utilize that? Because they didn't reach an arbitrary goal? I don't understand. Isn't $450k better than $0?

I guess I don't understand how kickstarter works, but that seems idiotic.

[Quineloe]

Yeah that's why I don't understand about this. $450k was pledged. Why are they not able to utilize that? Because they didn't reach an arbitrary goal? I don't understand. Isn't $450k better than $0?

I guess I don't understand how kickstarter works, but that seems idiotic.

If a project at your company is estimated at 800k, but the best you can get is 450k, are you still just gonna start the project and then just stop half way when the money ran out?


And it's not free money, that money has to go towards designing the game. So if they were to take their own money to fill the 800k, they're risking their own money. They can't just take it back out of the pot and live off the 330k that would be left over after kickstarter

[nilzark]

Entrepreneurs must risk. That is how it works.

[Champion_Standing]

If $340K is "draining" your retirement, you're not the target investor. There are, however, plenty of people who would and should risk $340K for a quick lucrative payday.

You don't leave free money on the table. Period.

The point was that it would be an awful investment, there is no quick payday here.

[Quineloe]

Entrepreneurs must risk. That is how it works.

These guys aren't entrepreneurs though. They're just some geeks that want to design a video game. If EA or whoever gave them a job to make that video game, they'd take it

[nilzark]

These guys aren't entrepreneurs though. They're just some geeks that want to design a video game. If EA or whoever gave them a job to make that video game, they'd take it

I guess one must ask, why are these men unemployed?

[Kayso]

If a project at your company is estimated at 800k, but the best you can get is 450k, are you still just gonna start the project and then just stop half way when the money ran out?


And it's not free money, that money has to go towards designing the game. So if they were to take their own money to fill the 800k, they're risking their own money. They can't just take it back out of the pot and live off the 330k that would be left over after kickstarter

When the only obligations are digital rewards to be delivered years down the road, it's close enough to free money.

I don't think they'd use the money for anything other than to try and make a great game (and maybe oxies for Brad). And you're wrong, people start business ventures and run out of money half way through all the time.

These are all professionals with experience. They're not risking any of their own money that they'd invest to help meet the goal. Staff salaries are a cost of development, no? Consulting fees? Maybe they need to contract a piece out to another company and that company happens to be the last-minute-angel?

There's a way to get your money back out. And I would argue that it's not any more risky than the risk they've already taken by joining a start-up over an established company.

[Kayso]

The point was that it would be an awful investment, there is no quick payday here.

And the point was wrong.

The angel isn't funding them for a trip to San Diego to design a level or some other rewards being offered via the kickstart page... He's doing it for his investment back plus a return in the short term. Consulting fees. Fees to his company. A salaried position. Something.

You realize I'm not talking about some random stranger pledging 340K out of the blue through kickstart, right? I'm talking about the developers approaching an investor (perhaps a relative or even themselves) and asking him to fund the rest so they don't leave money on the table. I'd figure that would be obvious, but maybe not based on your responses.

[Quineloe]

I guess one must ask, why are these men unemployed?

I don't know if they're really all unemployed. I think Brad is the only one? If they were unemployed, I would have expected far more during the kickstarter than no working pre-alpha version of the game and just a few screenshots and vague ideas about class design. It feels like 9 out of those 10 people are still working a full time job and all they contribute so far is what they can squeeze in between work and family.

And you're wrong, people start business ventures and run out of money half way through all the time.
I'm not talking about a business in general, I am talking about a specific project. If you half-fund a project, you're just blowing money out of the window. If you do that often enough, you can close your company.

[Kayso]

I'm not talking about a business in general, I am talking about a specific project. If you half-fund a project, you're just blowing money out of the window. If you do that often enough, you can close your company.

This company lives and dies by the pending success of this one game. Now, if it is successful they could make more games. If not, probably one and done.

If you get a chance to even 1/10th fund your project for free, you do so and then keep looking for the other 90%. Or you should, at least.

I'd no more turn down 1/2 the money my company needed for a project than I would 1/2 a blowjob.

[Byrjun]

I have zero faith in someone who'd leave $460K of free money on the table.

Between the entire team they couldn't pool together $340K? None of them have retirement accounts to borrow against? Or houses to borrow against? Or relatives who wanted to make some easy money?

Crackheads.

This was my immediate thought and I was shocked when I saw the timer actually ran out without them funding the rest themselves. I was like, well, I guess they decided to pull the plug on this game. So I check Brad's twitter and he has all these tweets like WE ARE GOING TO SUCCEED and that they have investors interested and shit...

If you had investors interested how the fuck did you fail your Kickstarter and piss away $440k? You have more than 1 investor but can't pool them together for $360k? And you think you're going to make a decent MMO?

Brad McQuaid continues to blow my mind (in the Vanguard way, not in the EQ way).

[Quineloe]

Are you seriously asking why none of the people involved are willing to throw 300k into the pledge on the vague promise of getting a return on that investment?

[Champion_Standing]

And the point was wrong.

The angel isn't funding them for a trip to San Diego to design a level or some other rewards being offered via the kickstart page... He's doing it for his investment back plus a return in the short term. Consulting fees. Fees to his company. A salaried position. Something.

You realize I'm not talking about some random stranger pledging 340K out of the blue through kickstart, right? I'm talking about the developers approaching an investor (perhaps a relative or even themselves) and asking him to fund the rest so they don't leave money on the table. I'd figure that would be obvious, but maybe not based on your responses.

What part of bad investment is so hard for you to understand? Giving this moron any money to make a game expecting to make a return on it is a horrible fucking idea. I don't care if you are talking about him getting the money from Grandma, a publisher, or a venture capitalist firm, its all a bad fucking investment.

[Byrjun]

Are you seriously asking why none of the people involved are willing to throw 300k into the pledge on the vague promise of getting a return on that investment?

If they weren't, this game should never have even been on Kickstarter in the first place.

[Quineloe]

If they weren't, this game should never have even been on Kickstarter in the first place.


you have the weirdest definition of kickstarter.

[JayN]

brade just needs money for oxies

I have zero faith in someone who'd leave $460K of free money on the table.

Between the entire team they couldn't pool together $340K? None of them have retirement accounts to borrow against? Or houses to borrow against? Or relatives who wanted to make some easy money?

Crackheads.

Brad should DEF not be leading the Team; hes proved to be inept

[Byrjun]

you have the weirdest definition of kickstarter.

I don't think I ever attempted to define kickstarter.

[Kayso]

What part of bad investment is so hard for you to understand? Giving this moron any money to make a game expecting to make a return on it is a horrible fucking idea. I don't care if you are talking about him getting the money from Grandma, a publisher, or a venture capitalist firm, its all a bad fucking investment.

It's not a pinky promise and its not "giving him money to make a game". It's loaning him $340K so that he can get a free $460K so that he can immediately (or as close to it as possible) return to you your $340K + a nice chunk of the $460K.

Rather he uses the leftovers to make a game or rather he spends it all on Taco Bell, you don't give a fuck. You have some sort of an agreement with some sort of personal guaranty that you feel okay about. And that agreement says you get paid first.

Yes there's risk, but the risk isn't upon the success of the game. The risk is rather he defaults and doesn't pay you back immediately once he gets his money from kickstart.

For the right margin, and depending on appetite for risk, it's a sound investment.

[Weyoun the Vorta]

I'm glad that this Brad fellow isn't one of the founders. Had he been, the dominion would likely have collapsed ten millennia ago.

[Thulack]

If $340K is "draining" your retirement, you're not the target investor. There are, however, plenty of people who would and should risk $340K for a quick lucrative payday.

You don't leave free money on the table. Period.

how is 340k a quick lucrative payday. Unless they take you on as a partner then your just another handing over money for free person. They didnt leave 460k on the table. They are taking the same donations on their own site and since only 9% of the KS supporters were p99 people who needed their name to show on the KS page to get recognition for P99 stuff i'm sure the other people are in turn just taking their money to the website and donating it there for the same perks.

[arsenalpow]

I'm glad that this Brad fellow isn't one of the founders. Had he been, the dominion would likely have collapsed ten millennia ago.

easily the best troll account i've seen in months

[Kayso]

how is 340k a quick lucrative payday. Unless they take you on as a partner then your just another handing over money for free person. They didnt leave 460k on the table. They are taking the same donations on their own site and since only 9% of the KS supporters were p99 people who needed their name to show on the KS page to get recognition for P99 stuff i'm sure the other people are in turn just taking their money to the website and donating it there for the same perks.

No, you're not just handing over money for free. You have an agreement before you "pledge" on kickstarter. And that agreement gets you something per that outside agreement. Maybe that agreement is with yourself? Can brad not put in the $340K and pay himself $340K in salary (plus a li'l extra for some oxies) as soon as they fund?

Now all I need is some genius to point out that this is against the rules or spirit of kickstart and the circle of futility will be complete.

[Thulack]

No, you're not just handing over money for free. You have an agreement before you "pledge" on kickstarter. And that agreement gets you something per that outside agreement. Maybe that agreement is with yourself? Can brad not put in the $340K and pay himself $340K in salary (plus a li'l extra for some oxies) as soon as they fund?

Now all I need is some genius to point out that this is against the rules or spirit of kickstart and the circle of futility will be complete.

The against the rules was already stated when this first came out. Whats your response to the fact that people can just go to their page and donate and have? they arent leaving the money on the table like you say.

[Kayso]

The against the rules was already stated when this first came out. Whats your response to the fact that people can just go to their page and donate and have? they arent leaving the money on the table like you say.

I don't have a response for that. We have to be having the same conversation in order for me to respond.

$460K was not collected today. Irrefutable fact. Will some of those people go over to their site and pledge directly? Sure. Will all of them? Of course not. So how many? And how much of what they eventually collect will be new donors who didn't donate to kickstart?

If someone offers you $460K will you turn them down and hope they offer some portion of that money a second time? You actually might. But the correct answer is no.

[Vega]

I don't have a response for that. We have to be having the same conversation in order for me to respond.

$460K was not collected today. Irrefutable fact. Will some of those people go over to their site and pledge directly? Sure. Will all of them? Of course not. So how many? And how much of what they eventually collect will be new donors who didn't donate to kickstart?

If someone offers you $460K will you turn them down and hope they offer some portion of that money a second time? You actually might. But the correct answer is no.

Not sure I really get you're whole point in this thread. The reason some people donate through Kickstarter is the guarantee that they are not throwing their money away on something that may only get half funded. If the people that donated before still want to donate now through the website, they can. This isn't losing these people's money if they still want to give it to the project. Saying it's stupid of Brad not to take advantage of the people who donated within the confines of Kickstarter's definition of 'funding', is actually very disturbing.

[Thulack]

Not sure if you already read the letter that brad posted today or not but they already said they made a mistake by using kickstarter for that shear purpose. They couldnt have taken the money if they wanted to from kickstarter. So they were stupid for using KS as their collection site but not for turning it down because they had to.

[radditsu]

Answer to op: nope. Not going to happen.

[TheSisko]

I'm glad that this Brad fellow isn't one of the founders. Had he been, the dominion would likely have collapsed ten millennia ago.

It is EASY to form a government based on Genetically Altered Super-soldiers, Genetically Cloned Facilitators, and a SLAVE produced fleet of warships. Ruling with an iron fist, if the Leaders of the Iron Fist never die.


Forming a lasting federation of people based upon peace and common ground is a much more noble accomplishment!

[Weyoun the Vorta]

And up until now I thought nobody could have done a worse job than captain archer. Now I can't help but wonder if the federation would of even existed had it been captain McQuaid.

[TheSisko]

And up until now I thought nobody could have done a worse job than captain archer. Now I can't help but wonder if the federation would of even existed had it been captain McQuaid.

....I have to agree.

[TheSisko]

Doesn't mean I LIKE it.

[TheSisko]

Oh you want to know why we have all those holodeck recordings of Captain Archer?

Cautionary tale.

[Toodles]

Yeah that's why I don't understand about this. $450k was pledged. Why are they not able to utilize that? Because they didn't reach an arbitrary goal? I don't understand. Isn't $450k better than $0?

I guess I don't understand how kickstarter works, but that seems idiotic.

You're entirely correct, it doesn't make sense and further indicates how flakey Kickstarters are.

Notice how they all share a similar progression template, where somehow if you earn another $100,000 they can introduce a new feature?

Why the hell would it cost $100,000 to design a new class. How do they even quantify that?

[Toodles]

You're entirely correct, it doesn't make sense and further indicates how flakey Kickstarters are.

Notice how they all share a similar progression template, where somehow if you earn another $100,000 over the target goal, they can introduce a new feature?

Why the hell would it cost $100,000 to design a new class. How do they even quantify that?