Luclin models...a poll

[Rasterburn]

Man you are really vehement about having these models aren't you?


Nope, I am more vehement about stating the facts of the matter, without allowing my opinions to be unduly colored with nostalgic, selectively remembered visions that simply do not hold water.

If you were actually there, full-time, from 1999 up through Luclin, then you need to think back objectively and try to remember the actual things that most of us were saying and doing at that time. And what I remember most of all in relation to this topic is that MOST of the players were bitching about the obsolete appearance of the original models. That's why Verant changed them in the first place: because most of the players wanted them to be upgraded.

[fwaits]

Nope, I am more vehement about stating the facts of the matter, without allowing my opinions to be unduly colored with nostalgic, selectively remembered visions that simply do not hold water.

If you were actually there, full-time, from 1999 up through Luclin, then you need to think back objectively and try to remember the actual things that most of us were saying and doing at that time. And what I remember most of all in relation to this topic is that MOST of the players were bitching about the obsolete appearance of the original models. That's why Verant changed them in the first place: because most of the players wanted them to be upgraded.

That's fine, but as the poll shows, most DON'T want them here. Whatever the reason(s) may be.

[nilbog]

This poll, from December of last year, was created as a courtesy to a player. Some were convinced that the majority of the playerbase wanted updated character models. I said then, and since then, if work is put forth to enable Luclin models, it won't be done by the developers here. I believe one of the players has posted a method of allowing Luclin models to be displayed, with some limitations.

We're already seeing some very significant options which were not available at that time, by virtue of the fact that we're using a 2005 client. Updated and improved ground textures, UI features, etc. The whole "if it wasn't there in 1999, then I don't want it" stance is already moot because of this fact.

Notice that nobody is complaining about having an in-game compass, or improved chat features, or a more logical UI arrangement, or nicer looking zones and buildings.


This isn't necessarily true. Just because we cannot change it, doesn't mean that we wouldn't change it if able.

Here is a quote I made a few months ago in regard to the removal of global auction/ooc. Some of the same discussions are happening now, so to clarify :

I hope it is known that the server will become more classic as time progresses. As live servers would patch in new content or features, we patch out newer content or features.

We will restore prekunark, Kunark, and Velious to the best of our abilities. We will put polish on them, and they are free for you to roam. Some content and features may be patched out before others, but do not be of the mindset that present non-classic elements are here to stay. It is only a matter of if they can be fixed, how they can be fixed, and when we can fix them.

I am a classic purist. The biggest mistake everquest ever made, in my opinion, was automating and simplifying the player's experience. Seemingly every new feature or change that was implemented post Velious was something to "benefit" me, that I didn't need to begin with. There are PLENTY of other games that encourage perks and things that are easier. Classic Everquest was widely-known to not be one of them.<team npc=""><team npc="">

We make the best, most well-informed decisions we can, with consideration to the feedback we receive.

</team></team>If there was a switch to immediately and completely revert this to classic, I'd flip it. Until there is, we will occasionally ask you for your feedback.

[Rasterburn]

And so far as the game mechanics are concerned, I would be in almost complete agreement with you, Nilbog.

But this is a purely subjective cosmetic upgrade, which would not impact the gaming experience of other players in any ways whatsoever. The arguments against such an implementation have all been extremely weak, where as the arguments for adding such an option have all been quite fair and realistic. I am not just referring to my own comments, either. I have read the entire thread and throughout its bulk, we've seen mainly childish flames from the anti-Luclin crowd, as opposed to several well thought out responses by the pro-Luclin crowd.

If this issue has already been decided however... and if there is no chance of changing your mind about it... then wouldn't it be a good idea to lock the thread..? That way, newcomers like myself won't be misled into thinking that it is still an open issue. Just a respectful suggestion.

[Kutter]

Now that Nilbog has stepped in and answered you, howabouts sharing that workaround for everybody?

That is if you have it, Rastusburn.

And oh god, talk about rose colored glasses, Sheesh.

[Rasterburn]

^^ Jeez, this little dude cracks me up. You gotta love a guy who is too dense to know that he should quit whilst he is BEHIND.

I really hate to do this, probably because I'll end up getting besieged by others who want to have the same thing that I have on P99. But clueless nimrods like Kutter have this odd effect upon me: namely that I can't resist any opportunity to help them make total asses of themselves.

Have a good look, Sparky:

http://www.tessmage.com/images/misc/P99_Kryssia_Luclin_Model.jpg

I have been telling everyone, for three pages now, that I have not simply been arguing on my own behalf. This isn't about me. I already have what I want. I was arguing on behalf of all of the other players who have very sensibly requested that they be granted a Luclin model option. See... unlike Kutter, I'm not a selfish little dickhead. Nor do I lie about things, just to score points in some silly internet argument. And that screenshot, which I took not more than 20 minutes ago, proves it. That's my lowbie wizzy alt (see the red arrow?), standing in the EC tunnel and surrounded by other P99 players. And as you can see, she is the Luclin high elf model... right down to her see-through skirt and her over-sized hooters.

I just wanted to be helpful those who were trying to make some sense to the admin. I was not trying to get into a flame war with jerks like Kutter.

Later. :p

[Tysus]

^^ Jeez, this little dude cracks me up. You gotta love a guy who is too dense to know that he should quit whilst he is BEHIND.

I really hate to do this, probably because I'll end up getting besieged by others who want to have the same thing that I have on P99. But clueless nimrods like Kutter have this odd effect upon me: namely that I can't resist any opportunity to help them make total asses of themselves.

Have a good look, Sparky:

http://www.tessmage.com/images/misc/P99_Kryssia_Luclin_Model.jpg

I have been telling everyone, for three pages now, that I have not simply been arguing on my own behalf. This isn't about me. I already have what I want. I was arguing on behalf of all of the other players who have very sensibly requested that they be granted a Luclin model option. See... unlike Kutter, I'm not a selfish little dickhead. Nor do I lie about things, just to score points in some silly internet argument. And that screenshot, which I took not more than 20 minutes ago, proves it. That's my lowbie wizzy alt (see the red arrow?), standing in the EC tunnel and surrounded by other P99 players. And as you can see, she is the Luclin high elf model... right down to her see-through skirt and her over-sized hooters.

I just wanted to be helpful those who were trying to make some sense to the admin. I was not trying to get into a flame war with jerks like Kutter.

Later. :p

Mind explaining how you have done this? I am sure there are others as well as myself interested.

One question tho, why is it that only your character is the high-elf female luclin model, when there are other high-elf females in the picture?

[Rasterburn]

Mind explaining how you have done this? I am sure there are others as well as myself interested.

One question tho, why is it that only your character is the high-elf female luclin model, when there are other high-elf females in the picture?

The injector works by isolating specific models and textures in a given rendered frame and then replacing ONLY those models and textures that I choose to inject. Hence I could change all of the models, some of the models, or none of the models. In this case, I have only bothered to dig out the model and texture set for my own toon.

The way it works is basically like this: the game renders a particular frame and then sends it to the video card. The "conduit" between the two is DirectX. The injector intercepts the frame after it has been handed to DirectX by the game engine. It then looks for the CRC values of all of the models and textures in that particular frame. Each model being rendered has its own unique ID. After I identify which values belong to my specific character, the injector is then set up (using an XML file) to always replace that particular model and texture set in each successive frame that is sent to the video card. The result: my character has a Luclin model, but nobody else's does. And since all of this takes place after the actual game engine has done its thing, it has absolutely no effect whatsoever upon anyone else in the game. It is entirely restricted to my own screen.

If I wanted to replace ALL of the characters on the screen, then it's a bit more work to set it up... but very do-able. It's just a lot of extra hassle that I don't feel like bothering with. Also, the nature of the injector is such that it needs to be set up anew each time the game is loaded. Most people would probably get confused by its operation, so for now it is just my own little personal toy.

Me and some fellow modders first got into this method back when we were trying to create a fully-nude mod for Age Of Conan... but that's another whole can of worms.

Anyway, the admin has made it clear that this topic is not going to be resolved in our favor. So I'm gonna bow out now... and wish everyone happy hunting. :)

[Kutter]

Not quite done, Rastusface?

^^ Jeez, this little dude cracks me up. You gotta love a guy who is too dense to know that he should quit whilst he is BEHIND.

Guess you need to stop right now, lol.

I really hate to do this, probably because I'll end up getting besieged by others who want to have the same thing that I have on P99.

You haven't figured out yet that this is what I've wanted all along, have you? Talk about not being the brightest crayon in the box. Made me S P E L L I T O U T, AGAIN!

Have a good look, Sparky:

Now you've spent yet another post and probably 2 hours of your time coming up with yet ANOTHER less than flawless personal attack on me, instead of helping people here. I called you a bonehead; you're the one who went off the loop with it.

So I reiterate:

Bonehead.

[Rasterburn]

Doesn't matter. No matter what, I still win.

;)

[Kutter]

You don't win till you post a link for your workaround.

:P

[Rasterburn]

There is no link. It belongs to me.

But if you are actually interested in learning about such things, then you might start here:

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=DirectX+inject&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CpTMRlAF8TMb4O6msoAS4jpXKBAAAAKoEBU_Q6bRM&pbx=1&fp=7db4f7af4a13aa89

[Kutter]

I'd imagine it would probably be something more along the lines of:

THIS (http://rpg-exploiters.com/guides-strategies/aion-model-editing-guide/)

Amirite?

Unless everything is client-side. Then it'd be a bit harder. Be much easier if you were more specific.

[Molitoth]

I liked a couple of them....

Iksar and High Elf.... but most of the rest were trash.

[Rasterburn]

I'd imagine it would probably be something more along the lines of:

THIS (http://rpg-exploiters.com/guides-strategies/aion-model-editing-guide/)

Amirite?


Negative. That short article talks about how to modify the textures within the actual game files -- permanently altering them. I am not doing it that way.

[BrentClagg]

@Rasterburn - So you actually wrote the code yourself for the DirectX Injection or did you find a 3rd party program that allowed you to do it?

[Rasterburn]

@Rasterburn - So you actually wrote the code yourself for the DirectX Injection or did you find a 3rd party program that allowed you to do it?

Nah, I'm mainly a texture artist who likes to mess around with the guts of my favorite games. Models and textures are what I know best. I know a -little- about that end of things (coding), but I'm far from being an expert on it. I've had a mod-related web site for the past four years and a couple of friends over there wrote the bulk of the code for it. They wrote the injector that we were experimenting with for Age Of Conan, too. The EQ version still isn't finished and parts of it are a bit wonky... so I wouldn't feel comfortable about distributing it to other people. But it works well enough for my own purposes. Like I said, it's really just a sort of novelty toy.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help in this topic. I tried. :(

[BrentClagg]

Nah, I'm mainly a texture artist who likes to mess around with the guts of my favorite games. Models and textures are what I know best. I know a -little- about that end of things (coding), but I'm far from being an expert on it. I've had a mod-related web site for the past four years and a couple of friends over there wrote the bulk of the code for it. They wrote the injector that we were experimenting with for Age Of Conan, too. The EQ version still isn't finished and parts of it are a bit wonky... so I wouldn't feel comfortable about distributing it to other people. But it works well enough for my own purposes. Like I said, it's really just a sort of novelty toy.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help in this topic. I tried. :(

It's fine. I was just curious how deep I would have to go to get Luclin models. I've not worked a whole lot with DirectX, but do have experience in coding. I may take a look and just get familiar with it. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to learn enough to be dangerous.

[Zadrian]

I think the Luclin models were way over done - the characters always looked as if they were holding their breath in.

[Rasterburn]

I think the Luclin models were way over done - the characters always looked as if they were holding their breath in.

The Luclin models actually have visible breathing animations... where as the old world models do not. You can see the Luclin models breathing in and out, in other words... which adds considerable realism to the character. It's the old world models who look as if they're holding their breath all the time.

[Seritaph]

They're just game models, no real harm in my opinion in offering them. I like the classic, but not everyone does. That said, I downloaded the files that improved the look of the textures in many of the zones. Options are nice.

[Sarkov]

Nilbog - thanks for your post. Very reassuring.

I apologize for being riled up on this issue - my fault for not reading page 1 and seeing this thread was a necro. I thought it was a poll being proposed now for consideration of potential action in the short term future, and reacted accordingly.

Glad to know the majority feel the way I do, and that our pov is shared by the devs.

[Sparkin]

I can't believe 1/3 of the people that have voted on this actually prefer Luclin models. They are abhorrent.

[ShadowWulf]

I can't believe 1/3 of the people that have voted on this actually prefer Luclin models. They are abhorrent.

Your a a socialist liberal.

Its true, your telling me what i should do to fit your socialist playstyle.

Glen beck told me so, it must be true.

[Enderenter]

I can't believe 1/3 of the people that have voted on this actually prefer Luclin models. They are abhorrent.

Couldn't agree more. I recall one or two of the race models being alright, and the rest looking awful.

[Denzal]

The point is if you don't like them don't turn them on, if someone else does let them turn it on. If all it is is turning on a switch and doesn't take time of the devs people should be given the freedom and liberty to do so. You aren't looking at their computer screen, they are.

Live and let live

[fwaits]

The point is if you don't like them don't turn them on, if someone else does let them turn it on. If all it is is turning on a switch and doesn't take time of the devs people should be given the freedom and liberty to do so. You aren't looking at their computer screen, they are.

Live and let live

Except it IS up to the devs who from the sound of things, want to keep the experience as "classic" (defined by the expansions they plan to release/support) as possible. That is the mission of this server. Otherwise I wouldn't disagree with you at all.

[quellren]

I wouldn't mind seeing them implemented. I think most of them look pretty awkward in the animations, but I'd vote yes simply to get rid of the fat, stupid ogres and trolls. Those 2 are the worst character models I've ever seen in a video game. period. It's a tragedy that a troll makes by far the best shaman and Ogre the best warrior.

I cannot effing wait until Kunark comes out and I can roll up a proper shaman.

[Lill-Leif]

I miss the "yes, but only for darkelf females" option..

[Rasterburn]

I miss the "yes, but only for darkelf females" option..

^^ WORD.

LOL :D

[Dominick]

The Elemental models are all new models as well.

I don't want to get into this, I was disappointed with the Ogre and Barb changes in the Luclin models. It doesn't mean they are trash.

It would be nice to have an option, but it doesn't really affect game play.

Frankly I am pretty neutral on this. If they were available I may turn them on.

[Tseng]

I originally voted no to be part of the mob, but my Libertarian roots make me feel that limiting people's model options on their own PC is a gross-overreach of the Federal Government (in this case, the mods).

[Cfred0-]

Even if the models are turned on you guys can still turn them off to have your classic experience

[Enderenter]

I wouldn't mind seeing them implemented. I think most of them look pretty awkward in the animations, but I'd vote yes simply to get rid of the fat, stupid ogres and trolls. Those 2 are the worst character models I've ever seen in a video game. period. It's a tragedy that a troll makes by far the best shaman and Ogre the best warrior.

I cannot effing wait until Kunark comes out and I can roll up a proper shaman.

To each his own. I personally love the Troll and Ogre models from classic (and think that the Luclin version of those 2 races is among the worst).

[guineapig]

Completely unrelated but I don't care.

Found a ton of great Velious texture helmet pics!

http://www.giantbomb.com/everquest-the-scars-of-velious/61-13183/

[XeldiablosX]

I think it should be implemented an for those who do not wish it as mentioned many times so far just turn it off ... Then both sides are happy.

[toddfx]

Nah, I'm mainly a texture artist who likes to mess around with the guts of my favorite games. Models and textures are what I know best. I know a -little- about that end of things (coding), but I'm far from being an expert on it. I've had a mod-related web site for the past four years and a couple of friends over there wrote the bulk of the code for it. They wrote the injector that we were experimenting with for Age Of Conan, too. The EQ version still isn't finished and parts of it are a bit wonky... so I wouldn't feel comfortable about distributing it to other people. But it works well enough for my own purposes. Like I said, it's really just a sort of novelty toy.

Sorry I couldn't be of more help in this topic. I tried. :(

I've played with EXTRACTING models and textures from DirectX and OpenGL games. I tried it with EQ Live years ago but back then the models weren't UV'd. More recently though I pulled fully textured mapped models from N64 ROMs using Nemu64 and "LemD's" plugin. I've also grabbed whole textured cities from Google Earth.

I've been wanting to pull some city or landscape from EQ and do a photo-realistic CG fly-through. No serious ideas right now, but definitely something i'd love to play with when I get some free time. Pretty fun stuff.

[nilbog]

I don't expect folks to read through 30 pages to find the point of this poll.

For the record... We didn't disable Luclin models. When the client reads expansions, it determines what races/classes are available to you. When Kunark opens, the expansion count will move to Kunark, to enable Iksars. Vah shir and Frogloks will never be enabled. So, as you can see, the classic expansions disabled Luclin models.

If work is put forth to enable them in some other way, it won't be done by the developers here. Personal opinions aside, we have no desire or reason to do so. There are plenty of things to work on within the scope of the project.

So, for the people continuing to work on the Luclin models.. that's fine, and good luck.

Locked.

[Uthgaard]

This is too funny to delete.
...
In the event there is a Niblig:

Please contact me and I will stop this guy from harassing you.


[Sun Mar 27 21:30:39 2011] [Petition 39122, Mar 27, 05:28 PM, Niblig, 13 Human Ranger ecommons (Online)]
[Sun Mar 27 21:30:39 2011] I think I lost my corpse in Befallen


Centcom, we have a confirmed niblig sighting.

[ChrisHSBY]

[Sun Mar 27 21:30:39 2011] [Petition 39122, Mar 27, 05:28 PM, Niblig, 13 Human Ranger ecommons (Online)]
[Sun Mar 27 21:30:39 2011] I think I lost my corpse in Befallen


Centcom, we have a confirmed niblig sighting.

BAHAHAHA!

[SupaflyIRL]

It's not a matter of being denied some personal freedom, it's a matter of this project NEVER, EVER GOING TO THE FUCKING MOON. Hence, these models should never, ever be available. Simple as that.

Most of luclin was pretty good (Ssra, akheva, aas making useless classes competitive). Also there's a spaceship in classic.

[azeth]

I liked Luclin. In comparison to how Velious made you feel, I suppose it may be lack luster, but I think it provided a fun raid environment.

I played a Rogue though, so Ssra and VT were pretty amazing loot wise and kept me stimulated.

[Xadion]

I actually enjoyed luclin raids- SSra was an awsome zone by itself, Emp Sseru, the clawed dude that didnt die till pop+ and VT where awsome

as for models...

maybe later velious turn them on- dont wanna miss the leetness of velious armor textures!

[tekniq]

if this is a classic server and we're trying to keep it as classic as possible not to mention that you guys are not planning to introduce luclin ever, then why even consider using their models? where is the consistency?!

[nilbog]

if this is a classic server and we're trying to keep it as classic as possible not to mention that you guys are not planning to introduce luclin ever, then why even consider using their models? where is the consistency?!

Does this post have any meaning, or are you just trolling server chat?

[ChrisHSBY]

Lol

[azeth]

if this is a classic server and we're trying to keep it as classic as possible not to mention that you guys are not planning to introduce luclin ever, then why even consider using their models? where is the consistency?!

classic /= Kunark.

99 is over bud, its the milennium.

soon therell be cats on the mofuckin moon, you heard it here first.

[azeth]

Lol

great share, thanks all.

[SupaflyIRL]

I actually enjoyed luclin raids- SSra was an awsome zone by itself, Emp Sseru, the clawed dude that didnt die till pop+ and VT where awsome

as for models...

maybe later velious turn them on- dont wanna miss the leetness of velious armor textures!

velious armor textures didn't show on luclin models so not sure what you're talking about

[Reppy]

Since the poll is closed and I didnt get to vote I would be in favor of the option of having the luclin models open,Hell even to have luclin at some point I am sure we will all get to vel at it's peek and become bored then what are you going to do? keep restarting and play all over again, I am sure you will be barking for luclin to come out. I stand with whatever the devs feel they want to do with thier project I am just here for the ride. I would like to have the option of turning on and off differnt luclin models reguardless of the fact that if we get luclin or not. So folks wont even touch this server because of the graphics, the gameplay is like nothing else tho love it.

[Kobias]

Do not want. I would have to enable them to pick out my face on luclin models to make sure im not bald or something >.<

...and then re-disable them. Bleh.

I like knowing that people see my character the same way I see it.

[Kope]

I like knowing that people see my character the same way I see it.

In all reality this can never be:

Gamma, contrast, color modes, widescreeen, different vid cards/monitors etc...

[Kobias]

In all reality this can never be:

Gamma, contrast, color modes, widescreeen, different vid cards/monitors etc...

In reality it is. It's the same character model. I couldn't care less if they see more ambient lighting, or if it's different gamma.

You're stretching the truth on this, you know exactly what I'm referring to =p The same model I see, is the model you see.

[Innovative]

velious armor textures didn't show on luclin models so not sure what you're talking about

I think he meant we could then see the Velious armor textures for a while, and towards the end of this game's timeline to enable Luclin graphics.

[mwatt]

I think go with whatever represents the least amount of work (including over time, if that applies) for the dev team.

[Reppy]

I am sure I am going to get ripped for this, But for those folks saying " I want everyone to see me like I do on my screen and luclins models are not classic blah blah..." that is not a vaild reason why we should not have them. If it takes the devs time away from the project would consider a vaild reason not to do them. However from what I have seen this has been worked on from numerous of people in the community and I will support it rather if 50% use it or 1% use the models.

[Bubbles]

Luclin models were the best thing that ever happened to the halfling race.

[Goraxx]

No thanks.

Although I am sure there is a thread somewhere for people who want to have luclin models enabled.

[Alkorin]

Ohai. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=12085

[insertname]

I have been thinking about my tine in EQ, and though I can see the benefits of the classic models ( love the Barb bear helm ) I also see the why luclin models are attractive to some folks. The armor on some models is better, like my oger how ever the luclin oger modle runs like he has to take a dump and is SQUEEEEZING his cheecks to make to ferrot in time.
How others see my character is semi important however Im the one looking at it most of the time so thats what I care about.. what I see.

As for p99 going beyond velious to luclin, I would consider Luclin almost, kind of sorta classic. Its like the "black" album kind of classic, but the writing is on the wall.
pros: AA (flame away if you wish, working aa on a endgame character IMO is fun, so bite me)
Vahshire...... me-wow
BEAST LORDS!!!
new spells / gear
now POP(or poop as I call it) took the epic feel of EQ and drained like for the instant gratification of transport.... Luclin can do this too via the nexus, which is iffy ( personally I don't like it ) how ever the pros out weigh the cons, but that's just my opinion.

Any thing pop or after bleh, luclin is iffy however I think it could be fun, but what ever is best for the server and the community. I loved my BL, and Luclin was fun over all. You had timers for the nexus almost as long as boats. I hope someday at least AA are in ( and with fingures crossed.. FAIRY GOD PARRENTS!!!!!... I mean BEAST LORDS!!

[Juugox2]

i never liked luclin models how they run is just horrible looking

[insertname]

I have been thinking about my tine in EQ, and though I can see the benefits of the classic models ( love the Barb bear helm ) I also see the why luclin models are attractive to some folks. The armor on some models is better, like my oger how ever the luclin oger modle runs like he has to take a dump and is SQUEEEEZING his cheecks to make to ferrot in time.
How others see my character is semi important however Im the one looking at it most of the time so thats what I care about.. what I see.

As for p99 going beyond velious to luclin, I would consider Luclin almost, kind of sorta classic. Its like the "black" album kind of classic, but the writing is on the wall.
pros: AA (flame away if you wish, working aa on a endgame character IMO is fun, so bite me)
Vahshire...... me-wow
BEAST LORDS!!!
new spells / gear
now POP(or poop as I call it) took the epic feel of EQ and drained like for the instant gratification of transport.... Luclin can do this too via the nexus, which is iffy ( personally I don't like it ) how ever the pros out weigh the cons, but that's just my opinion.

Any thing pop or after bleh, luclin is iffy however I think it could be fun, but what ever is best for the server and the community. I loved my BL, and Luclin was fun over all. You had timers for the nexus almost as long as boats. I hope someday at least AA are in ( and with fingures crossed.. FAIRY GOD PARRENTS!!!!!... I mean BEAST LORDS!!

side note: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28572&highlight=luclin I would use these luclin or not

[BaobobMiller]

Something Everyone seems to forget... Or perhaps just never knew, is that the original developers of EQ were rushed into alpha by Sony who wanted to see a return on their investment asap. At the time gaming engines capable of supporting an mmo didn't exist so once it was up... it was sadly limited.

And so the work on the engine was ongoing and continuous. As the engine progressed (as did video cards and processors) the game content was upgraded as well and the intended vision of the game began to take shape.

Some things were things that were intended all along (like spell descriptions) and were in fact packed and shipped in their near complete state to be implemented with an update later that year but were put off at the intense wildfires of in game technical bugs resulting from essentially being forced to release before the game was ready to be played.

With each expansion the the game was able to take on a little more of the designers true vision becoming the classic it was always meant to be. ending with Luclin... Troubled child of a failing marriage between the vision of the original creators of Everquest and the corporate greed of Sony trying to market to a younger and younger group of players who had no more skill than required to "run and gun" in first person shooters and demanded that everything be "fair" resulting in the continued "balancing" of the classes until no in game cooperation was needed at all.

OMG I just realized I'm ranting a little... Sorry

To Luclin or not to Luclin? I don't care... The re-texturing is essential and personally I like the detailed customization of the models. I do feel they were always intended by the original designers (just look at the accompanying art work and that becomes obvious) and that the tech just needed to catch up so the characters could be brought to life.

As for the other things...

I REALLY REALLY REALLY think spell descriptions need to be brought back... At the very least this is Kunark.... and descriptions were there at it's release... And I've got the disk (singular) to prove it.

But the masses set fourth a resounding "NO", and in the name of what "Authenticity" well damn... We better recreate all the pathing errors all the broken spells and bugged gear that goes along with the half finished game that Sony rushed to market with it's pants around it's ankles. And lets not forget to recreate the Game crashing for 60% of the people playing it EVERY time they cross a zone line. Oh Oh Oh yeah and make sure that when they crash or go link dead their character stays in game getting pummeled for a full 5 minutes before it leaves the world and they can log back in.

Which also means that neat trick of all your abilities spamming at random when you go linkdead in a fight better get coded out of the game too. You're going to have to just stand there like an idiot and just get pummeled...

I hope you don't think too badly of me. I'm really a nice guy. But don't confuse "Classic" with "Tradition". The game was not finished when it was released and the Origional Developers continued trying to finish it right up until they quit and went on to write EQII, right afterthe release of Luclin.

I may not post often... But when I do it's a doosy...

BaobobMiller

[Brad_mo123]

Release VP and then work on luclin models, omg.

[Tiggles]

release epics/hole then VP

[nilbog]

Something Everyone seems to forget... Or perhaps just never knew, is that the original developers of EQ were rushed into alpha by Sony who wanted to see a return on their investment asap. At the time gaming engines capable of supporting an mmo didn't exist so once it was up... it was sadly limited.

They also didn't know the game would be successful. Did you ever stop to think if all these opinionated improvements were initially present would the game have ended up as classically successful as it was? We will never know, but what I can say is there is a strong desire for classic gameplay. (People flocked to this server for classic, not for non-classic, which already existed)

And so the work on the engine was ongoing and continuous. As the engine progressed (as did video cards and processors) the game content was upgraded as well and the intended vision of the game began to take shape.Intended vision? I highly doubt some of those original D&D guys had the intended vision of fucking horrible looking Luclin models. I could be wrong, but I hope I'm not!

With each expansion the the game was able to take on a little more of the designers true vision becoming the classic it was always meant to be. ending with Luclin... Troubled child of a failing marriage between the vision of the original creators of Everquest and the corporate greed of Sony trying to market to a younger and younger group of players who had no more skill than required to "run and gun" in first person shooters and demanded that everything be "fair" resulting in the continued "balancing" of the classes until no in game cooperation was needed at all.Are you one of these designers or is this all opinion based?

OMG I just realized I'm ranting a little... Sorrynp i rant all the time in favor of classic.

To Luclin or not to Luclin? I don't care... The re-texturing is essential and personally I like the detailed customization of the models. I do feel they were always intended by the original designers (just look at the accompanying art work and that becomes obvious) and that the tech just needed to catch up so the characters could be brought to life.I like good-looking artwork and modeling as well. I believe Luclin models look awful. How would it be essential if I continued to play into OOW with the Luclin models turned off? I used an amulet of necropotence for the sole purpose of riding my horse as a skeleton without having to turn on the fucking ugly graphics. (Unfortunately I couldn't disable the skeleton models at that time, however, it did allow me to ride the horse)

But the masses set fourth a resounding "NO", and in the name of what "Authenticity" well damn... We better recreate all the pathing errors all the broken spells and bugged gear that goes along with the half finished game that Sony rushed to market with it's pants around it's ankles. And lets not forget to recreate the Game crashing for 60% of the people playing it EVERY time they cross a zone line. Oh Oh Oh yeah and make sure that when they crash or go link dead their character stays in game getting pummeled for a full 5 minutes before it leaves the world and they can log back in.
Seems short-sighted. Like.. you chose aspects that would be difficult to replicate and presented them to fuel your argument for Luclin models. Sounds cool though. I have stated before, if I could flip a switch and revert the game completely and immediately to 100% classic, I would do so in a heartbeat.


I hope you don't think too badly of me. I'm really a nice guy. It's all <3.

But don't confuse "Classic" with "Tradition". The game was not finished when it was released and the Origional Developers continued trying to finish it right up until they quit and went on to write EQII, right afterthe release of Luclin.
That's when everyone fucking stopped playing lol. They should have, imo, thought about what exactly brought their unintended success. It wasn't the models.. it wasn't the spell graphics, or any of that other stuff. It was the game itself.

[Webwolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8hka0XK-O4

[deakolt]

I have been thinking about my tine in EQ, and though I can see the benefits of the classic models ( love the Barb bear helm ) I also see the why luclin models are attractive to some folks. The armor on some models is better, like my oger how ever the luclin oger modle runs like he has to take a dump and is SQUEEEEZING his cheecks to make to ferrot in time.
How others see my character is semi important however Im the one looking at it most of the time so thats what I care about.. what I see.

As for p99 going beyond velious to luclin, I would consider Luclin almost, kind of sorta classic. Its like the "black" album kind of classic, but the writing is on the wall.
pros: AA (flame away if you wish, working aa on a endgame character IMO is fun, so bite me)
Vahshire...... me-wow
BEAST LORDS!!!
new spells / gear
now POP(or poop as I call it) took the epic feel of EQ and drained like for the instant gratification of transport.... Luclin can do this too via the nexus, which is iffy ( personally I don't like it ) how ever the pros out weigh the cons, but that's just my opinion.

Any thing pop or after bleh, luclin is iffy however I think it could be fun, but what ever is best for the server and the community. I loved my BL, and Luclin was fun over all. You had timers for the nexus almost as long as boats. I hope someday at least AA are in ( and with fingures crossed.. FAIRY GOD PARRENTS!!!!!... I mean BEAST LORDS!!

haha dude hahaha yew awesome

[porigromus]

Old models 100% better! I love the fat trolls and ogres. They are actually my favorites. To each their own.

[Hailto]

I don't understand why anyone would not want the models to be available. I personally wouldn't use them but it doesn't effect your game play one bit if other people use them so why would you actually care? Its just weird to me that people care what others are seeing on their screen if it doesn't effect them at all, whats the reasoning behind this? Its like, i like this, so everyone else should have to use it even if i can't tell if they are are not and it doesn't change my gameplay at all. Seems kinda selfish and stupid to me, but whatever.

[nilbog]

I don't understand why anyone would not want the models to be available. I personally wouldn't use them but it doesn't effect your game play one bit if other people use them so why would you actually care? Its just weird to me that people care what others are seeing on their screen if it doesn't effect them at all, whats the reasoning behind this? Its like, i like this, so everyone else should have to use it even if i can't tell if they are are not and it doesn't change my gameplay at all. Seems kinda selfish and stupid to me, but whatever.

Read the thread if want to know.

[BaobobMiller]

When I said re-texturing I was referring to the world... not the models. Like I said before. When It comes to the luclin models... I could care less.

My interest was in the arguments for and against. In my opinion Turning on Luclin models would increase rather than decrease the sheer number of players who want to platy what they would otherwise consider to be a great server. There are people out there who would play this server if they had the new models and world textures. (World textures are easy by the way and there are plenty of threads devoted to going just that)

I also can respect and understand the lost feeling of accomplishment with the whole armor argument. but you can't just scream "Classic"... Unless of course every single one of you using that argument is using the bone ass ugly one big ass chat window no damned options whatsoever UI that goes along with it.

In my mind the "Classic" to EQ is far more about game content over texture or models... Things like which spells stack with which and the un-nerfing of gear. on that note I think the This server is near outstanding with the exception of my beloved boats.

The bottom line is... THIS IS NOT YOUR SERVER... It's Just the server you CHOOSE to play on. Input is great, but fighting over it is not only stupid... You could be spending your time farming Hill Giants.

[tekniq]

I don't understand why anyone would not want the models to be available. I personally wouldn't use them but it doesn't effect your game play one bit if other people use them so why would you actually care? Its just weird to me that people care what others are seeing on their screen if it doesn't effect them at all, whats the reasoning behind this? Its like, i like this, so everyone else should have to use it even if i can't tell if they are are not and it doesn't change my gameplay at all. Seems kinda selfish and stupid to me, but whatever.

it's cause vanity is such a huge part of this game. i think erudites look awesome with old world graphics and they look stupid with the new ones. i want them to see me how i see me.

[Snaggles]

I've spent 10 years trying to forget them. Sometimes I still wake up in a cold sweat screaming.

[mwatt]

There's no point to have a poll about it, or to disable the luclin models.

They're FREAKING TOGGLEABLE.

If YOU don't want to see them, turn them the fuck off! If YOU care about other people using them, stop being such a pretentious twat. It's amazing that you guys care so much about shit you wouldn't have to see, and wouldn't affect your gameplay at all.

This thread is the just fail.

Actually, it appears that you are "fail" in your post. Nilbog was the original poster, and he is asking us if we want to stop him from disabling the option to toggle the Luclin models. The poll provides a way for people who like the idea of Luclin models a way to tell Nilborg that they would like him NOT to do this. The thread is not "fail", it has purpose.

[SearyxTZ]

no, theyre horrible


+ shouldn't even be a toggle option

that's how bad they are

[nilbog]

There's no point to have a poll about it, or to disable the luclin models.

They're FREAKING TOGGLEABLE.

If YOU don't want to see them, turn them the fuck off! If YOU care about other people using them, stop being such a pretentious twat. It's amazing that you guys care so much about shit you wouldn't have to see, and wouldn't affect your gameplay at all.

This thread is the just fail.

Server chat is for civil conversation. Personal attacks/generally being confrontational will not be tolerated. See you in a week.

The point of this thread is to have a designated area for the discussion of Luclin models. Aside from the fact they are not classic, obviously this topic has been discussed. I'd prefer not to post my same opinions again and again in different threads. I'm sure others feel the same way.

[Damaja]

Coulda swore this was a classic server. Why the hell would I not want classic Models?

Answer: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nepenthe]

The Models were terrible, the mounts were equally so; the falling animation added a 3 stooges type feel to an otherwise wonderful fantasy mmorpg.

[insertname]

I have to say, the reason I like the new models is actually because of the way they did the armor. Take a shaman in full jaundice... turn on new models then look at them again with old models.
I do like p99 and I would be one who would prefer the old zones, with perhaps some updated models for the mobs/characters.
Now the "classic is about the game play" argument can cut both ways, if its about the game play then the gfx really don't matter - true however - at that point it comes down to personal preference.

I like the newer models, though I wish they kept the barbarian bear helm as the leather graphic.

[dusk883]

I speak for the heterosexuals when I say we are all against any and all Luclin models.

[Rainflush]

I speak for the heterosexuals when I say we are all against any and all Luclin models.

Haha!

[Biffins]

I'm pretty sure the Luclin models would be optional. Why would anyone care if someone else prefers to have them turned on?

[TR Spokesman]

if you want luclin models you could always just do the "fix" for them. It comes with some bugs but supposedly works for the most part.

I'd personally like the option of being able to toggle them on/off, but I don't care enough to go thru the trouble of having to do the "fix".

if someone where to come out with a better alternative, now that would be interesting.

[Drem]

I'm pretty sure the Luclin models would be optional. Why would anyone care if someone else prefers to have them turned on?

someone went over it already but basically it ruins the immersion if the people around you don't see you the same way you see you or vice versa

it's project1999, not project1999sortofifyouwant

and when velious armors come out isn't all that sorta fucked up by luclin models? like you gotta go into your eqclient.ini and loadveliousarmor17=TRUE or whatever to even see something that used to be a sign of badassery?

aren't most of the luclin armor helmets similar to the velious custom hats ?

i dunno, F luclin models tho. awful

[Alkorin]

someone went over it already but basically it ruins the immersion if the people around you don't see you the same way you see you or vice versa

it's project1999, not project1999sortofifyouwant

Good thing you have no way of knowing how I see you then, right?

Absolutely ridiculous line of thinking.

[Ennoia]

Aside from the Elementals actually looking like Elementals, Lucling models are pretty terrible.

[Feachie]

how hard is it for people to leave models turned off if they don't like them? i mean honestly, it doesn't effect your game at all, not everybody has the same preferences as you, and if nilbog threw it up as a poll i'd assume it's an easy'ish fix.

people care too much about the stupidest things.

[Alkorin]

how hard is it for people to leave models turned off if they don't like them? i mean honestly, it doesn't effect your game at all, not everybody has the same preferences as you, and if nilbog threw it up as a poll i'd assume it's an easy'ish fix.

people care too much about the stupidest things.

This. It's not necessarily an easyish fix, but there is currently at least one way to use the new models that isn't being frowned upon by the devs.

People trying to enforce their preferences on others is always fun times.

[Feachie]

This. It's not necessarily an easyish fix, but there is currently at least one way to use the new models that isn't being frowned upon by the devs.

People trying to enforce their preferences on others is always fun times.

best when they try and justify their opinion with "it's classic!" or "it's ugly!" :rolleyes:

[Drem]

so you guys can talk shit and express your opinion but no one else can is what you're basically saying. fucking classy

don't ask stupid questions like "why would anyone care" if you don't want to hear the answer. and no, don't get fed up with yourself thinking i'm losing sleep overh ow you guys might see me in EQ. i just wish it wasn't an issue at all, simple as that

[Sorath]

im playin on red 99 and dont like the old look of wood elfs, can i do somting to get the newer look just on my screen????

[Lindalind]

This. It's not necessarily an easyish fix, but there is currently at least one way to use the new models that isn't being frowned upon by the devs.

People trying to enforce their preferences on others is always fun times.


We just want one server without the new models,quit trying to push them on us.

[Amelinda]

im playin on red 99 and dont like the old look of wood elfs, can i do somting to get the newer look just on my screen????

no.

[medievalerror]

I loved the Luclin graphics for some (Iksar is my favorite race, but HATE the OLD Iksar look, only like the Luclin one) but not for others (e.g., gnomes).

I don't see why it would be a major issue in terms of giving folks the option of having them turned on or off, as EQ Live did and as other servers do. No one is forced to use them if they are optional, but all are forced to use original if Luclin aren't made available.

[Brimacombe]

Looks like I came too late for the poll. I would like Luclin models. For a minute there I thought the question was "Do you personally like Luclin models, and if so, which" as opposed to "Should we unlock them for people's personal use".
It appears that quite a few people are more concerned with railroading you into seeing their characters they way they want to be seen than allowing you to do what you want. There has been a lot of irrationality that I think boils down to this mostly concealed motive. Fact of the matter, I don't play this game so you can control me. I play this game because I like it. That being said, every time I blink there is a period where I cannot see how impressive you believe your character looks. Is there a rationale to remove my eyelids? Perhaps if I blink I will not see the game in the classic sense and the whole server would spiral into Azeroth. Hmm, makes me chuckle to even consider.
I play the game for the rule-set. I got over the nostalgia factor long ago. I like the game, not the graphics. Whatever I can do to legally personally improve the graphics, I will. I don't see why my personal preferences that I am completely in control of should hamper another's graphics druthers. My vanity is not more important than your freedom.

[Flunklesnarkin]

I'd have voted no.

[Afierra]

It is cosmetics...does me having the newer models on give me an advantage over you? No it doesn't. Would it possibly entice new players to the server who are used to the better graphics? More than likely. Very few new players are going to enjoy playing a game with year 1999 graphics.

Bottom line, leave it as an option. For you people who want to be true to 1999 go for it, for the sake of getting new people to play let them decide how they want the game to look for their enjoyment.

[maahes]

It is cosmetics...does me having the newer models on give me an advantage over you? No it doesn't. Would it possibly entice new players to the server who are used to the better graphics? More than likely. Very few new players are going to enjoy playing a game with year 1999 graphics.

Bottom line, leave it as an option. For you people who want to be true to 1999 go for it, for the sake of getting new people to play let them decide how they want the game to look for their enjoyment.

So very true. Everyone I talk to on the server is telling me this server is just not what it used to be. Population is rapidly decreasing. One would logically assume that giving people freedoms and options would only promote population growth.

[Flunklesnarkin]

If they could implement it an option that would be a good solution.

[jballe3]

It is cosmetics...does me having the newer models on give me an advantage over you? No it doesn't. Would it possibly entice new players to the server who are used to the better graphics? More than likely. Very few new players are going to enjoy playing a game with year 1999 graphics.

Bottom line, leave it as an option. For you people who want to be true to 1999 go for it, for the sake of getting new people to play let them decide how they want the game to look for their enjoyment.

So very true. Everyone I talk to on the server is telling me this server is just not what it used to be. Population is rapidly decreasing. One would logically assume that giving people freedoms and options would only promote population growth.

both of these

[SnappHF]

No Luclin models!! That is why I stoped playing normal EQ in the first place. Just one example of what I love with the original character models is how the Trolls look and scratch their buts. It's so much a troll! :)

[Extunarian]

Ok now this isn't fair. We have no means to disable [maps], or it would be disabled. If means are found, it will be.

funny to see all the stuff these folks have been able to accomplish that seemed impossible before :)

[Darian]

I rerolled my shaman alt because new ogre models are awesome but the old ones are terrible.

I don't feel like slogging through all the pages- can someone explain why custom interfaces that provide clear advantages over the default velious UI are okay and encouraged but cosmetic graphics upgrades are forbidden?

[nilbog]

I rerolled my shaman alt because new ogre models are awesome but the old ones are terrible.

I don't feel like slogging through all the pages- can someone explain why custom interfaces that provide clear advantages over the default velious UI are okay and encouraged but cosmetic graphics upgrades are forbidden?

Well, sure. They are completely unrelated.

We don't use the classic UI because it's unavailable to us. It died halfway through the Luclin client era on eqlive. p99 uses the Titanium client. If somehow the classic UI is made available to us, expect the possibility of using it. The Titanium client's expansioncount is set for Kunark currently; it will reach Velious, but never Luclin. And last but not least, Luclin models aren't classic.

[Pomaikai]

The Luclin models were never all that bad. In fact, most looked WAY better than the old models. I've never figured out how so many people invested so much emotion in crappy 8-bit pixels. I actually enjoyed the fact that we were finally able to make our toons have individual facial looks. Different colored hair, eyes, facial expressions, etc. It was nice not living in a world full of clones.

But beyond all of that, Luclin models are FAR more than just cosmetic. Enabling Luclin models allows us to have mounts, and that is HUGE! It's huge for agro management, mana management, and movement around the world. Mounts were a game changer for casters. They truly made the game more fun and enjoyable for the caster classes.

[Lenowill]

I would like the Luclin models to be available as an option because my partner cannot stand looking at the classic ones, and the lack of a way to play with the Luclin models is making it very difficult to get him enthused about playing on this particular server.

He wants to play with me, and I want him to have a chance to experience classic EverQuest gameplay like I remember it ... but he doesn't want to constantly be looking at hideously blocky characters while doing it, and I can't say I particularly blame him.

Personally, I'm easy. I like both the classic models and the Luclin models, but I do generally prefer the Luclin models overall and wish they were available as an option.

[Ssleeve]

How could you prefer them?

The animation looks like everyone has shit their respective pants.

[Hitchens]

Luclin models were terrible and ugly.

[Lenowill]

How could you prefer them?

The same way others prefer the classic models: personal taste.

Really not that complicated ... both sets of models have large numbers of strengths and weaknesses relative to each other. Like you pointed out, a large number of the Luclin model _animations_ are silly looking, and I do think that if I could get the Luclin models with classic-style animations (somehow) I'd prefer that more than either one.

[Klax]

I don't like them personally but i don't see why allowing them would be an issue in any way since only the user can see them.

[KobgagDainbramage]

I'd like to be able to use Luclin models as well and I couldn't care less about what you nerds think of that.

[godbox]

luclin models were awful
ninja turtle iksar and body builder troll ogre
fail
no no no

p.s.
elementals = shirtless half cloud dudes tryin to hug on you

[bman8810]

Sure, mainly because I can turn them off if I want to.

[godbox]

im not gonna read 37 pages of this thread so i hope somone already said this...
not classic

booya
imout

[Yanomamo]

i would be more interested if we could change the way some weapons look. Having a Peacebringer that looks like a goddamn cracked staff is retarded.

[Galaa]

it'll be great to have the option of using Luclin models.

Those who likes it can turn it on. Those who prefers the old models, can just use those.

Win - win for everyone.

Not just that. There are people who played EQ after Luclin, and they already gotten used to it. Having the option of luclin models might entice some new players who did not like the old model.

Its purely personal choice and doesnt affect other people's gameplay.

[tekniq]

imo keep them out and leave no option. i know there's some people that like to use a certain face and want everyone to see that face. if a viewing person has luclin models turned on, then that person's face he is viewing will be some random combination the luclin models generated rather than the one he intended for everyone to see.

[Kika Maslyaka]

im not gonna read 37 pages of this thread so i hope somone already said this...
not classic

booya
imout

neither are Quad core cpus with 16gigs of ram and FIOS.
Don't confuse technical options with game content

[kilyen]

people should have the option to choose old or luclin its only cosmetic and effects only the person useing it
i for one like the old models BUT i would like to use luclin ogres and trolls

[Kika Maslyaka]

My personal list of Old model vs Luclin models:

Humans - actually hold their own in both versions, females overly look better in Luclin, but I would prefer original plate armor

Barbarians - undecided

Erudite - Luclin

Wood Elves - Luclin
Half Elves - Luclin
High Elves - Luclin
Dark Elves - Luclin, but old chain and leather was slightly better. old female plate helm was better

Ogres - Luclin
Troll - Luclin

Iksar - undecided - both versions look so different, they could be considered 2 different races, and since I never had Iksar character, I have no preference on this matter

On Shorties: dwarves, gnomes and halflings - in Luclin models they look.. WEIRD - they look fattier and bulkier than in old models, and plain unrealistic.

This is probably the only case where I believe that old models were better.
The only thing that always bothered me, is that Dwarves were same size of Halflings and Gnomes, while, IMHO, they should have been a tad BIGGER (so they would stand between gnome and elf height wise, but be as wide in shoulders as barbarians are)
Dwarf

[Lulz Sect]

ugh thank god you guis got it right in 09

[acid_reflux]

I find the old models more entertaining.

[Grozmok]

This thread needs to be locked and purged.

Old Models Reskinned > Old Models > * (Luclin garbage included)

[thrump]

I want gnome goggles. Screw the rest of em.

[briare]

no luclin models please. simply put, having an impressive-to-look-at character is one of the hard earned rewards of an mmorgp. luclin made it too easy, classic models makes it a challenge.

[Morsakin]

Luclin DE models drove me to empty my bank to purchase an AoN.

[wolvesoflegend]

Nilbog, I don't you think you are selfish. Disabling lucling models indefinitely is the way to go. :D

[kilyen]

really dont see what the prob is just because i have some luclin models on dose not mean you have to see them it all comes down to personal choice and affects no one

though velious is coming sooner or later which means custom helms and velious armor textures

[Silentone]

Same reason i am being punished to show my cloth helm on my human character, you shall be punished with old world models =p

[mwatt]

This thread has been seriously necro'd. I suppose because of the influx of new people lately. In any event, the decision was made a while back and Nilbog shows no sign of wavering in his intent. Whether or not you like them, or find them more convenient does not matter. This server is going to be as classic as is possible. That is the plan and it will mean the denial of some things we are used to - even some things almost universally accepted as good things. Just the way it's gonna be. Get used to it. I personally think the sacrifice is worth the return.

[Ikonoclastia]

^^ +1

[Danyelle]

Just an FYI, I figured out how to activate the Luclin Models without changing anything serverside and the client modification is very very simple.

Link:
http://vp1999.forumotion.com/t10-luclin-models-on-project-1999

I figured you guys may want to know this so that people that like the models can enjoy their freedom of choice and the GMs don't have to be annoyed to holy hell about turning them on.

-Miku/Danyelle

[Within99]

No.

[Galaa]

Just an FYI, I figured out how to activate the Luclin Models without changing anything serverside and the client modification is very very simple.

Link:
http://vp1999.forumotion.com/t10-luclin-models-on-project-1999

I figured you guys may want to know this so that people that like the models can enjoy their freedom of choice and the GMs don't have to be annoyed to holy hell about turning them on.

-Miku/Danyelle

Thanks for sharing.

It only works on SoD/Underfoot client right? Im currently "getting" a copy of Underfoot, will try it out :)

BTW you should post this info on the Technical Discussion forum as well.

[Grozmok]

It only works on SoD/Underfoot client right?

Can someone confirm? A friend wants to run the Cats on the Moon expansion models.

[Danyelle]

Nope what I posted is for Titanium and is compatible with Project 1999 (And is kind of irrelevant on other servers lol)

[Flunklesnarkin]

there was a hard mode server i was gonna try.. but it was luclin models so i didn't bother creating a character lol.

[Jimes]

Luclin models are terrible, but at least they don't have oversized shoulderpads and space goats.

[Danyelle]

Ehh opinions of course. My opinion, for example, is some of them are ok some of them aren't. Some of them I use some I would never use. And of course they both have their faults. For example Luclin elven females always stand to the side with some awkward pose and run like they're in the special olympics, yet Classic females (of any race minus Ogre/Troll/Iksar) never put their damn arms down and have an ass that looks quite literally like a table.

Point being what I posted is something someone would use , on their own, at their own discretion, without any changes server side, and no one ever has to see them except the person using them. Those people get what they want and the GMs no longer have to deal with questions asking "Y LUKLEN MUDLZ NO WURK". Win-win.

[Minotauro]

Please no luclin models here PLEASE

[stormlord]

Players often will select a race or look in a game because that's how they want to look to others. If a game arbitrarily changes that then it removes that. Don't forget that there's a social aspect to these games that's highly valued. While I respect everybody's right to have the game look as they want it to look, I think that it would be confusing if you kept referring to your friend as having a big nose when most everyone else says it's small. Or you say that your friend has a small head even though he actually has a big head. But you don't know that because you changed the options so that his big head is 1/3 the size.

In MUDs people will oftne write a description for their character. Something like "A tall elf with dark sun dried skin. His left leg limps almost unnoticeably. There's a tatoo on his neck of a dragon with a spear piercing its heart." I can understand shutting off descriptions or not even looking at them (/examine mefe), but what if you changed it to say, "A short elf with light moon dried scales. His bottom finger bends almost painfully. There's a gash on the backside of his head with worms oozing out of it." I understand that's what you want to see, but part of writing descriptions for characters is the expectation that this is what -others- will see.

Part of the problem is that the luclin models have a entirely different character. For example, a human caster looks like an average man, mostly. But luclin humans look like they belong in a wrestling ring or in a body building gym. That's not to mention that they have different faces and do not look remotely similar. I guess some people think it's perfectly average to look like hulk hogan yet also be a wise wizard that frequents libraries and study halls. None of this addresses that the luclin models weren't available during classic through velious.

The old models aren't perfect, of course. Check out the polygons on half elves. Look at the size of their arms. It's not always easy to tell, but if you zoom in it's easy. They're huge! It could be the limited polygons. There're other examples of strange or weird looking things. And some people who play ogres or trolls do not want to look dumb or out of shape. Understand that. Best you can do is select a smart, stern face. I always enjoyed that dumb look. The lore is supposed to justify it. But I think they (the modelers) had some "fun" with it.

All in all, I think the old models don't take themselves as seriously as the luclin ones. I like that about them. But I know many people want models that're not cracking jokes about themselves. Maybe they want less of this or more of that. Or they just plain like the flavor of the luclin models. But again, you have to consider the social aspect of the game. Do you or do you not want to respect the choices others make about their appearance? By forcing luclin models, you take that choice away from others and remove that aspect of the "social" game. I would be all for luclin models if what -I- selected is what others saw, but that's not how it works. So what the end result is is it's either old models OR luclin models, not both - unless the code is changed.

So my argument here is based on the "social" aspect. This is contrary to what happened on live, where you could select old models or luclin models on a whim. And it's not based on the argument that luclin models weren't available pre-luclin so therefore they should not be on p1999. It's my own argument.

[Danyelle]

@Stormlord

You make a very valid point. The thing I liked most about your point is the fact that, while stating your point, no where did you bash someone for having a different opinion or state that your opinion is law. I also like how you actually described your view rather than just crying because someone likes something. As such I can't help but to agree with you, your point is very valid. (EDIT: I'm not being sarcastic either i'm being very serious. I wish more people would face things like you did)

At any rate I only posted it because I made a discovery that many people were curious about (And at one point I believe it was thought getting this working would require either major file modifications, as in at the .dll or .exe level, or outright upping the expansion variable to Luclin.) I decided to share my discovery with the community. I shared it here because it would be irrelevant on a server like PEQ where the models are activated already anyway.

Now that I've shared it it's out of my hands. You guys will do what you want with it. I made my contribution so my part in this little tale is over.

[Flunklesnarkin]

Idc about luclin models as long as its an option... if its all or none.. i'd rather not have them.

[Adnan]

id play luclin.

[Galaa]

Nope what I posted is for Titanium and is compatible with Project 1999 (And is kind of irrelevant on other servers lol)

Just a minor info for those who wish to use luclin models.

Those running "EQ Lite" clients, the luclin models wont work on it, due to the lite client removing unrelated files.

[Danyelle]

Thanks for your excellent research, Danyelle. I tried it out and my DE SK looks super-cool in banded armor now. The only thing that's bothering me is that I think I would have to go back and recreate my characters using Luclin model settings to get them the way that I want them to look. This, in turn, would mean that I couldn't guarantee that my non-Luclin appearance wouldn't be horrible. I'm one of those weird people who care about that sort of thing.

Where are the settings for character appearance stored?

In the Database. There's an option to change facial features in-game (The "Face" button in your inventory) and save them. If you use the Velious UI it was taken out, if you use the default UI it's still there. Tested and it still functions.

Edit: and Aye if you use the Lite version the Luclin models are gone. You can, however, drag and drop them (I would assume you have a full version of the client lying around) but this change won't work without them.

[Iondera]

Even with Velious UI /face I believe is the key command.

[Danyelle]

Speaking of High Quality textures, if you have a copy of the Secrets of Faydwer, Seeds of Destruction or Underfoot client lying around copying over the .s3d files for every single Classic, Kunark and Velious zone (Only the base zone file, _obj files may work too.) will provide you with clearer high res textures:

See:

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t426/vp1999/EQ000019.jpg

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t426/vp1999/EQ000018.jpg

http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t426/vp1999/EQ000017.jpg


PS. Can't help but point out Guard Reskin's name in that picture... get it...Reskin? It's almost funny ;_;

[FoxxHound]

Shure.... As long as Luc isn't coming itself...
Kinda like Uthgard DAoC server~

[Galaa]

managed to get luclin models on titanium client, now there's more choices for faces instead of the default few :o

http://i44.tinypic.com/2q1gdxh.jpg

Also used the enhanced graphics from luclin to give the classic zones a much better look.

[Danyelle]

Glad you found the information to be useful heh.

Also, the newer clients have even more high res retextures of classic zones. Like I posted above. I use Underfoot for every server minus P99 so was a simple matter of dragging and dropping for me.

[Galaa]

Glad you found the information to be useful heh.

Also, the newer clients have even more high res retextures of classic zones. Like I posted above. I use Underfoot for every server minus P99 so was a simple matter of dragging and dropping for me.

I wasn't able to get my underfoot client to work for some odd reason, but I copied the zone files over to my titanium client for the high res zones.

[Galaa]

does anyone still remember whats the command to change faces in luclin models?

[Guybrush]

Just an FYI, I figured out how to activate the Luclin Models without changing anything serverside and the client modification is very very simple.

Link:
http://vp1999.forumotion.com/t10-luclin-models-on-project-1999

I figured you guys may want to know this so that people that like the models can enjoy their freedom of choice and the GMs don't have to be annoyed to holy hell about turning them on.

-Miku/Danyelle

Holy shit, thanks dude! I've been hoping for this since last year!

[maahes]

Holy shit, thanks dude! I've been hoping for this since last year!

Was anyone able to get this working on p99?

[desj16]

Thanks for this info! The newer models and textures really make the game look a whole lot better to me and remind me of when I spent my most time playing (Luclin - PoP).

[Danyelle]

Was anyone able to get this working on p99?

Yep I know I did, haha. Everyone else seems to at least I haven't heard of any problems so far. If anyone does encounter any glitches let me know.

Besides the wolf thing, which may or may not ever come to fruition, i'm also working on trying to see if I can get a method of having some elementals loaded and not others. Also testing texture maps between Classic and Luclin. Got it to the point I have put the entire Classic Dark Elf Female Leather texture onto the Luclin model properly minus the chest. With Classic the chest texture was simply that, the chest (and neck). With Luclin it's divided up into the chest, neck and collarbone. So breaking the old Chest texture down and aligning them properly is being a bitch. The hands and feet are also rather annoying. Velious armors are actually already at Luclin resolution the issues would be getting them on the model. Dropping them, remapped of course, into the Luclin files won't cut it. It won't recognize them. Sony on the other hand already started a function to load Velious armors on the Luclin models but they half assed it and quit (LoadVeliousArmorsWithLuclin=TRUE in the eqclient.ini if anyone wants to look at it.). The pants are the only texture that loads properly everything else fucks up. Finishing what they started would take some time though. At some point I hope to get a hold of someone with actual artistic/Photoshop talent to completely rebuild the Classic textures in Luclin level resolution and I can remap them from there. We'll see how it goes. And last but not least I'm trying to work on an installer that would help streamline this fix a bit (let you select which races/genders to turn on, select or deselect elementals, patch the globalload to P99, remove or not remove unneeded clutter in the globalload etc) but haven't gotten around to it yet and most likely won't until I figure out where I'm going with the above projects. Would also need to find a good way of going about it anyway as a batch file wouldn't really give me the customization I wanted in the setup, though it would certainly be quick and easy.

I'll keep everyone updated but for now the plain Luclin model fix is still on this thread:
http://vp1999.forumotion.com/t10-luclin-models-on-project-1999

Oh by the way a reminder as someone said before, if you use the Lite client from elsewhere on these forums you won't have the Luclin models in the folder anymore. If that's the case the above fix does NOTHING. It only changes what order models get loaded in to overwrite the Classic models with Luclin and bypass the expansion variable in the database. Without the files actually there nothing will happen. If you use the Lite client I recommend finding a full version of the Titanium, SoD, Underfoot or any other client and dragging and dropping the files listed in Globalload in that link.

-Danyelle/Rainbowdash

[travatron]

Thanks! Did this and it works wonderfully. Wife is much happier.

[Grozmok]

Speaking of High Quality textures, if you have a copy of the Secrets of Faydwer, Seeds of Destruction or Underfoot client lying around copying over the .s3d files for every single Classic, Kunark and Velious zone

I'm surprised no one has posted those up anywhere yet.

:D

[RevengeofGio]

They are fucking ugly and furthermore *ahem* BECAME AVAILABLE WITH LUCLIN which we will not be revisiting as part of Project 1999. That should be the end of the issue and all discussion right there.


"Waaah get off my lawn you kids!!!"

Seriously if you don't want them don't use them... why does it bother you that other people want them?

[Galaa]

I'm surprised no one has posted those up anywhere yet.

:D

There's already a thread in the technical forum regarding using high res zones in P99 :)

A combination of high res zones + luclin models together with high res armor makes the game much more beautiful.

[KobgagDainbramage]

I instated the luclin models this morning, but noticed i no longer have timers on my buffs. Can this be fixed?

[maahes]

I instated the luclin models this morning, but noticed i no longer have timers on my buffs. Can this be fixed?

The luclin models didn't do anything to my buff or spell icons. Buff timers are still working as intended. I do run AoxUI though.

[Grozmok]

There's already a thread in the technical forum regarding using high res zones in P99 :)

A combination of high res zones + luclin models together with high res armor makes the game much more beautiful.

Okay, those are the same. Wasn't quite sure.

;)

[Whelk]

Just installed this, but it's having some major issues with robes. Namely, all of my clothies have their robes seemingly locked in place, while my legs clip out of them constantly. Is there something I did wrong, and is this something I can fix?

[Flunklesnarkin]

There are other eqemu servers with luclin models or AA's or any of the other stuff people are asking for that can be found easily with the eqemu launcher..

there is a link somewhere on the site.


I would hope the the dev's here would worry more about content and velious than trying to implement luclin models as an option or other post velious stuff.


I would suggest people who want those things go to one of the emu's dedicated to working on them.

[Visual]

with the exception of mage pet models, luclin models are not welcome on my pc

[Kika Maslyaka]

There are other eqemu servers with luclin models or AA's or any of the other stuff people are asking for that can be found easily with the eqemu launcher..

there is a link somewhere on the site.


I would hope the the dev's here would worry more about content and velious than trying to implement luclin models as an option or other post velious stuff.


I would suggest people who want those things go to one of the emu's dedicated to working on them.

it takes a whole of 15 seconds to enable Luclin models :rolleyes:

[Scavrefamn]

I don't like the luclin models, but regardless of that, it's not up to me, it's up to the staff.

If the staff decided that luclin models were out, there's probably a good reason for it.

[Alkorin]

The reason is simple enough. The Luclin expansion isn't enabled on this server, so the client is told by the server to turn the models off. There are ways around this, but an unmodified Titanium client will not show Luclin models on this server.

[maahes]

with the exception of mage pet models, luclin models are not welcome on my pc

Any they never have to be. Just don't modify the ini file.

[Treefall]

Just an FYI, I figured out how to activate the Luclin Models without changing anything serverside and the client modification is very very simple.

Link:
http://vp1999.forumotion.com/t10-luclin-models-on-project-1999

I figured you guys may want to know this so that people that like the models can enjoy their freedom of choice and the GMs don't have to be annoyed to holy hell about turning them on.

-Miku/Danyelle

Thank you so much for this.

I'm all about the general gameplay of classic EQ, not necessarily the looks. Between this and the updated textures...closest thing to EQ 2.0 I'll probably ever get. ;)

[Caso]

i hate those models, and the fact i had to use them to be able to use the horse bugs me a ton:eek:

[Acrux Bcrux]

i hate those models, and the fact i had to use them to be able to use the horse bugs me a ton:eek:

This

[Droog007]

The only thing that makes me want to barf more than luclin models is mixing and matching (some old, some new)... they are utterly in-congruent. I kinda freaked out when I discovered I had luclin elementals on by default, and was relieved that I was able to turn them off.

[1203jjt]

Meh, I compromised...rolling with Luclin models on the desktop, classic on the laptop. A bit of variety never hurts.

[Otur]

Old poll is old.
Voted Yes, because I couldn't give two rats asses if people want to use other models or if they dont - because it doesnt make any diffrence what so ever. Its up to the individual if they think its good or bad.
People have diffrent taste of what they find appealing, accept that.

[Glorindale]

Han shot first....leave the models alone.

[Strifer]

Why do luclin models when the velious armor has such an awesome look?

[dredge]

NO!

[gotrocks]

why was this dug back up?
who cares if someone has their luclin models on. yes, you can turn them on on this server. No, it will never be a requirement to do so.
does it need to go further than this?

[maahes]

I love nerd rage!

LOL

Why wouldn't you allow the player the choice?

[SCB]

I would love to be able to use certain Luclin models.

[nilbog]

Not happening from our side. Closing this decrepit thread.