Serious Implications for the Future of MMO's

[Grimfan]

Just thought I'd leave this here: http://smedsblog.com/

I feel like this is the direction EQ Next and most of the other MMO's coming out in the future really need to go. Eve has such a sustainable formula, but without the PC's the game world really feels lifeless. If they can somehow make the NPC's also feel like they have a true purpose in the world we might be looking at some pretty crazy stuff coming up in the next year or two.

The idea that you have a guild your character belongs to, like a merchant guild or a guild like the Merchants of Qeynos guild we have on this server that patrols a path and keeps the road safe for caravans... the idea that you could have an entirely separate guild that is built around taking those caravans from the previous guild... just imagine the implications and the player decisions.

Really looking forward to the future of MMO's.

[Tradesonred]

All my hopes are pinned on the kickstarters. Only way things are going to shake up is when one of those guys makes a killer game and nobody buying those shitty ass wow clones cash grabs anymore because the bars been set too high.

[dreama1]

It sounds good in theory, but I'm skeptical that it will work out as planned.

I don't have any experience with EVE, but i'm going off several other MMORPGs, and what i've found is that we are creatures of habit; we like having / doing the same thing over and over again, tweaked here and there, but so far, it's hard to imagine a game, similar but totally different. As much as people say everquest is difficult, how often do these same people go google what to do for quests, google the maps etc etc, of course, if you do it over and over again, that knowledge gets incorporated but I think the vast majority of players are actually very impatient - myself included. I think EQnext may be interesting in that vein, but let's see if it won't completely frustrate people after having years and years of something completely different.

Oh and i'm sick of people saying WoW is easy. High ranking pvp has to be one of most laborious and skillful game play I have ever come across in a MMORPG.

[Swish]

Whatever happened to Guild Wars 2? I had a bunch of pals playing that but suddenly its like it all stopped, they don't talk about it anymore... nobody on the forum here talks about it anymore... did it crash big time?

Any developing game with a subscription model will have me interested, as long as there's no cash shop on top.

[Uteunayr]

I am not so skeptical. Player-based content creation has been a huge driving force of PC gaming for well over a decade and a half. Certainly, you get some shit out of it, but you also get Natural Selection, Counter-Strike, DOTA, and numerous other innovations. Now, that may be a bit too far for what EQN is aiming to do, but just look at Team Fortress 2. It is the same type of system except you have hats instead of blueprints. It is a highly successful game as content generation is heavily performed by players. Custom maps, custom hats, custom taunts, all those things create a game that can last almost eternally. Look at Skyrim, and the literal thousands of mods that have added new interesting stuff to do.

In the end, a developer will never, ever out-develop the player base. And players who love a game are going to be very active in trying to build stuff in that game. The best thing a developer can do, as Valve has said, is to give the players the best space, and the best tools, to generate their own content which other players can consume.

If SoE can do it right, it will be a damn good thing not only for MMORPGs to get out of the Quest-Themepark paradigm we're stuck in, but it will be healthy for players who want to do more than exhaust content in a few weeks, as was the case in WoW.

[Grimfan]

It sounds good in theory, but I'm skeptical that it will work out as planned.

I don't have any experience with EVE, but i'm going off several other MMORPGs, and what i've found is that we are creatures of habit; we like having / doing the same thing over and over again, tweaked here and there, but so far, it's hard to imagine a game, similar but totally different. As much as people say everquest is difficult, how often do these same people go google what to do for quests, google the maps etc etc, of course, if you do it over and over again, that knowledge gets incorporated but I think the vast majority of players are actually very impatient - myself included. I think EQnext may be interesting in that vein, but let's see if it won't completely frustrate people after having years and years of something completely different.

Oh and i'm sick of people saying WoW is easy. High ranking pvp has to be one of most laborious and skillful game play I have ever come across in a MMORPG.

I feel like it's time for change. Even if you combine all the new ideas that are interesting and have come out in the last few years (public quests being the big one, but dungeon currencies is another example) you just cannot get a unique feeling MMO. The leveling grind is still pretty fun, but once you get to the high end it feels the same as every other MMO out there. FFXIV, Rift, WoW, SWTOR, even ESO/Wildstar/Tera... they all feel the same to me. I'm tired of playing the same game and getting the same result, which for me is a burnout at max level. I know I like ESO, but I am sure it will have similar issues end game that these other games do.

I know we're creatures of habit, but after 10 years of the same crap I'm feeling pretty ready for something new. It doesn't even have to be difficult or challenge whatever skills I have acquired over the years. I just want something different.

[MrSparkle001]

Imagine an MMORPG of a massive city.. and the Rogue’s guild is entirely run by players. Where the city has an entire political system that is populated by players who were elected by the playerbase.

Knowing how people are on the internet and in MMOs I think it would be a nightmare. In theory his ideas are good but in practice they would be ruined by the very players he wants to run MMOs.

It also sounds like he's trying to justify spending less money on development. Just let the players create content right? STO does it and I think Neverwinter. I don't like it myself. I rarely do foundry missions.

[Nuggie]

Knowing how people are on the internet and in MMOs I think it would be a nightmare. In theory his ideas are good but in practice they would be ruined by the very players he wants to run MMOs.

It also sounds like he's trying to justify spending less money on development. Just let the players create content right? STO does it and I think Neverwinter. I don't like it myself. I rarely do foundry missions.

For those not in the landmark beta: there are a lot of really neat things being built by the playerbase. I think we will see some extraordinary things when they start letting us do community builds. I haven't seen/heard of any trolling going on. Although I'm sure it will come.

[Ahldagor]

Knowing how people are on the internet and in MMOs I think it would be a nightmare. In theory his ideas are good but in practice they would be ruined by the very players he wants to run MMOs.

It also sounds like he's trying to justify spending less money on development. Just let the players create content right? STO does it and I think Neverwinter. I don't like it myself. I rarely do foundry missions.

remove anonymity of the player then people might think about it more, but you are right in that it would be a nightmare.

For those not in the landmark beta: there are a lot of really neat things being built by the playerbase. I think we will see some extraordinary things when they start letting us do community builds. I haven't seen/heard of any trolling going on. Although I'm sure it will come.


the trolling will come, but not in the beta because the true troll will want to grief as many people as possible.

[MrSparkle001]

For those not in the landmark beta: there are a lot of really neat things being built by the playerbase. I think we will see some extraordinary things when they start letting us do community builds. I haven't seen/heard of any trolling going on. Although I'm sure it will come.

Creating content can be a good thing, I mean I've seen content some players have created that rival or beat the developer's official content. I see it all time in single player mods. Part of the question will be if that content comes in the form of actual content added to the world or if it's available as "outside" content like STO's foundry missions.

The nightmare comes from players being actively involved in the managing of the game.

[Knuckle]

I feel like it's time for change. Even if you combine all the new ideas that are interesting and have come out in the last few years (public quests being the big one, but dungeon currencies is another example) you just cannot get a unique feeling MMO. The leveling grind is still pretty fun, but once you get to the high end it feels the same as every other MMO out there. FFXIV, Rift, WoW, SWTOR, even ESO/Wildstar/Tera... they all feel the same to me. I'm tired of playing the same game and getting the same result, which for me is a burnout at max level. I know I like ESO, but I am sure it will have similar issues end game that these other games do.

I know we're creatures of habit, but after 10 years of the same crap I'm feeling pretty ready for something new. It doesn't even have to be difficult or challenge whatever skills I have acquired over the years. I just want something different.
Explain your max level eso similarities to other mmos

[mnemonikos82]

I really feel like gaming will be stagnant until Oculous Rift hits mainstream and developers learn how to do a fully integrated VR MMO. Once that happens its .hack for everyone! Any "innovations" before that will be wiped away. At least in the short term, the crappiest and least innovative MMO that is fully immersible will blow any non VR game out of the water no matter how innovative it is. In the long term you will eventually see the same scenarios unfolding that you see now and then it'll stagnate until the next big technological leap.

[mrgoochio]

Until VR doesn't constitute strapping 1.5pounds (oculus rift + average headphones) on your head, VR wont be mainstream. People hardly like wearing 3D glasses in theaters let alone in their living rooms. The rift and headphones? Maybe as a novelty for an hour. Don't even get me started on the omni going mainstream.

Developers hardly consider developing for NVIDIA 3d Vision. To get games in an acceptable playable state with 3D vision, they mostly have to convert their gui elements to 3d objects. They don't even do that. Rift support will only be worse.

[stormlord]

It sounds good in theory, but I'm skeptical that it will work out as planned.

I don't have any experience with EVE, but i'm going off several other MMORPGs, and what i've found is that we are creatures of habit; we like having / doing the same thing over and over again, tweaked here and there, but so far, it's hard to imagine a game, similar but totally different. As much as people say everquest is difficult, how often do these same people go google what to do for quests, google the maps etc etc, of course, if you do it over and over again, that knowledge gets incorporated but I think the vast majority of players are actually very impatient - myself included. I think EQnext may be interesting in that vein, but let's see if it won't completely frustrate people after having years and years of something completely different. See, it's a balance between lots of options and accessible gameplay.

Oh and i'm sick of people saying WoW is easy. High ranking pvp has to be one of most laborious and skillful game play I have ever come across in a MMORPG.
Good points.

I can't say exactly why sandbox gameplay is fun. I started with UO. I liked the freeform content. Being able to build a house anywhere was rich. The idea I could get a boat and sail anywhere was the same. Not being told exactly what to do or where to go really opens up the game, but can make it frustrating. There's a sort of give and take, I think. If you open up the game too much, players aren't sure what to do. And all the potential paths a player can go down usually need tutorials and/or information that's easily digestible.

The thing about sandbox gameplay is it's limited by the players. You won't get beautiful stories. Generally rather than getting beautiful characters you'll get annoying people or scammers or spammers. Won't get elegeant construction, generally. You'll rather get something more like a ghetto or neighborhood where there're houses almost stacked on top of each other. I mean to say, what players make is not a hollywood production. It can be very amazing in terms of logistics or resources. Some players are very smart how they make things.

Same thing with player vs player combat. Players don't play fair like NPCs do. This can lead to a lot of rage and not very fun outcomes. Players challenge each other, but they also stab each other in the back. So while these player vs player combats are REAL stories, they're also can be very painful and not fun.

[Bamz4l]

Just thought I'd leave this here: http://smedsblog.com/

I feel like this is the direction EQ Next and most of the other MMO's coming out in the future really need to go. Eve has such a sustainable formula, but without the PC's the game world really feels lifeless. If they can somehow make the NPC's also feel like they have a true purpose in the world we might be looking at some pretty crazy stuff coming up in the next year or two.

The idea that you have a guild your character belongs to, like a merchant guild or a guild like the Merchants of Qeynos guild we have on this server that patrols a path and keeps the road safe for caravans... the idea that you could have an entirely separate guild that is built around taking those caravans from the previous guild... just imagine the implications and the player decisions.

Really looking forward to the future of MMO's.

and imagine those caravans were filled with bricks, owned by a guild, being sent out to be used in their new guild settlement

[Grimfan]

Explain your max level eso similarities to other mmos

Sorry, do not have max level ESO experience, I just meant that the games feel the same. I'm hoping that there is no token system at max level in ESO. For some reason every game developer seems to believe that you need to have a token system to distribute high end gear because what drops from the bosses isn't enough. However, ESO's personal loot system does give me some hope that it will be different. But I hoped FFXIV would be different too and then I got to their end game token system and decided to quit because I was already burned out on it after Rift.