Guys, TMO is still killing dragons...

[White Ranger Rides]

Let's change the rules again, lol!

The Venril Sathir pop today (February 11) involved questionable tactics employed by some who were after him. This is completely against the spirit of the rules if not completely against the vague "letter" of them.. I would appreciate hearing from all raid guilds and most importantly, from Sirken and/or Rogean about this.

These guilds had a warrior and cleric as trackers plus about 5-ish people logged in, in the zone, ready to rush to support the "trackers" as they engage on pop. This is pretty blatantly poop-socking the target. There's no chance for rushing members to VS to engage him with this kind of tactic. It's rule-lawyering past comments made about having a group in the zone "XPing". Really guys, is this the level of "competition" that is needed? Why can we not agree to level the field here and let everyone have a realistic shot at this?

Sirken or Rogean, can you please lay down the line and enforce it so that this ongoing encroachment ends? The majority of guilds trying for FFA targets are doing their best to adhere to the spirit of the rules in the interests of competition. Being absent in defining rules and enforcing them just encourages more of this and eventually poop-socking will be back in full swing (as in some cases, it already is).

Proposal (enhances competition and mobilization without rewarding those camped or bound in the zone):
1) Trackers can't engage targets. Leave maximum at two trackers. The is more competitive as you not only need to get a force in zone, you need to zone in your tagger. Let the trackers only track.
2) No more grabbing FTE with pets / summoned eyes, etc.
3) Members of guilds camped in the zone or active in the zone must leave the zone before being involved in the engage. (to combat people bound in the zone, all must enter via a zone line or a group port).

[jarshale]

This is sad

[mattkwi]

Don't tread on C

[Geofizzle]

Best part is Takens guildleader talking about "rule-lawyering" when the fact is that lawyering the rules over and over to weaken TMO and other raid guilds is about the only reason his guild is getting a chance at these priority mobs at all.

Be thankful for what you've got. Sorry the GMs wont change the rules every time TMO/FE/IB has a FFA raid victory....it must be very troubling for you guys.

[White Ranger Rides]

2) No more grabbing FTE with pets / summoned eyes, etc.
lol, casuals

[Raavak]

I say learn2play EQ instead of rule lawyer everything.

2) No more grabbing FTE with pets / summoned eyes, etc.
You gotta be fuckin' shitting me.

[Hitpoint]

You got your rotation, you got these plan nice rules implemented. Can you just leave us the fuck alone now? If TMO wants to engage with a warrior and a cleric who the fuck cares? Maybe you should put a warrior and a cleric there. They're going to beat you to VS no matter what the rules are.

And what does this have to do with eye and pet pulling? There are classes that have to use pets and eyes to pull dragons and stay out of charm range. I propose that javs and bows aren't allowed next.

Next I propose that we are done with the Raid Discussion forums. A deal was hashed out, new rules were made. Now the forum is just used for guild representatives who know very little about raiding, to whine and complain about how better guilds still have an advantage. How the fuck is an SK or necro ever going to pull a dragon again if you remove eyes and pets Striiker? That's basically all we're used for now anyway.

[Nirgon]

I see the casuals are slowly inching their way towards having the "summon items for me" forum section.

It will be a glorious day. Log in, get items handed to you, log out. Think of how happy everyone will be.

Get those macros ready Sirken. I'll compile some best in slot lists for each class along with useful clickies.

[Raavak]

Guilds may not have any more than two representatives present at a raid spawn location.
A warrior and a cleric = 2. Sux2beu.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Trackers can't engage? Better remove every single piece of faydedar and sev loot, just to be sure.

[Raavak]

Just add a machine where you pull a handle and out drops dragon loot.

[Origin]

#yolo

[Kagatob]

Breaking up this circlejerk now.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/5232/auburncirclejerk.gif

Fucking hardcores.

[Splorf22]

Venril Sathir is an Iksar, not a Dragon

/facepalm

[Hitpoint]

Venril Sathir is an Iksar, not a Dragon

/facepalm

He doesn't say those rules are specific to VS.

[Hitpoint]

nm I see..

[Tiggles]

Just add a machine where you pull a handle and out drops dragon loot.

They would just complain that you have to pull a handle and not just have it pop up.

[Moodie]

Best part is Takens guildleader talking about "rule-lawyering" when the fact is that lawyering the rules over and over to weaken TMO and other raid guilds is about the only reason his guild is getting a chance at these priority mobs at all.

Be thankful for what you've got. Sorry the GMs wont change the rules every time TMO/FE/IB has a FFA raid victory....it must be very troubling for you guys.

Yep. Because Taken NEVER gets FFA targets.

[Kasyra]

/cheer TMO

Having no guild affiliation but having gone thru PnP policies on my old server of Druzzil Ro back on live days, I can say that no one will ever be happy with any type of player-made agreement regarding raid mobs. Theres always going to be some jackhappy guild who thinks they deserve a shot at every raid mob that spawns, regardless of wether they can actually handle it or not. As far as I see it, TMO is playing by the rules and anyone who says otherwise needs to step away from their keyboard and take a deep knee bend.

[White Ranger Rides]

Venril Sathir is an Iksar, not a Dragon

/facepalm
Eh, TMO killed draco last night too, I'm sure there's already a petition in for the bone razors because he was pulled with a jav or something.

[chief]

draco was pulled with a bard, not a druid body aggroing. Bone razors with be given to the appropriate guilds.

[White Ranger Rides]

Yep. Because Taken NEVER gets FFA targets.

They didn't until they lobbied to have the rules catered to them.

[Funkutron5000]

With shortened windows FFA mobs are all a heck of a lot more competitive. Who would have thought that would happen?

[Raavak]

Venril Sathir is an Iksar, not a Dragon

/facepalmNon-dragon boss mob loot (aka VS, Inny, CT) is gotten by kneeling down and sucking on this tube.

[chief]

1) Trackers can't engage targets. Leave maximum at two trackers. The is more competitive as you not only need to get a force in zone, you need to zone in your tagger. Let the trackers only track.


Good idea, so I sit at my keyboard for hours on end clicking one button waiting for red text to show up on my tracking list and when it does I don't even get to participate in the fight.

[Thulack]

Non-dragon boss mob loot (aka VS, Inny, CT) is gotten by kneeling down and sucking on this tube.

So thats hows you guys get all your loot. You all must have some pretty mouths. :eek:

[Jaxon]

GMs caught a whiff of the KC zoneline and they like what Class R is cooking up.

[Jaxon]

C, I meant C guys. The joke doesn't really work unless the C is in there, you understand.

[Raavak]

So thats hows you guys get all your loot. You all must have some pretty mouths. :eek:No, we actually track and kill shit.

[ivosik]

I propose that striiker makes a list on how every class should be played during a raid situation. While he is at it he should make a list how every raid mob should be pulled.

[Mezzmur]

When can we start pulling VS to the entrance again? That was the best.

[Moodie]

Just add a machine where you pull a handle and out drops dragon loot.

I thought TMO got banned for having one of those?

[Melissa]

^ and u are?

[Geofizzle]

Lol here he comes like clockwork: Chest with his obligatory "BDA isn't getting enough mobs and loot" tantrum under the guise of promoting a "fairer and more competitive server". Staff should just generate BDA and Chest all the loot in the game that they want so they can quit and leave real EQ players to have fun already. Most of the server, including GMs, are sick of your shit at this point...

In all seriousness though, please leave P99 so we can save what shred of classic EQ raiding is left in the world.

[jaybone]

Good idea, so I sit at my keyboard for hours on end clicking one button waiting for red text to show up on my tracking list and when it does I don't even get to participate in the fight.

you probably should go outside and get a life if the best thing you have to do is click a button for hours.

[harnold]

So what does this have to do with TMO killing dragons when your post is about VS?

[Kagatob]

I've never seen this many morons get together to bitch about their inability to rule-lawyer their way out of or into video game shit. Get fucking lives.

[arsenalpow]

Ya, I'm so in need of loot. All these alts I play and loot I need.

The way the rules have been bent VS isn't a competitive event any longer. Same for dice roll pet parking at Sev/Fay. The whole point of this isn't to get me more loot, it's to create a competitive environment. You don't see anyone bitching about racing in Hate or Fear, or Tal which can be a challenging pull. This is completely about removing the competitive aspect of the encounter. That should be altered.

[Mezzmur]

Ya, I'm so in need of loot. All these alts I play and loot I need.

The way the rules have been bent VS isn't a competitive event any longer. Same for dice roll pet parking at Sev/Fay. The whole point of this isn't to get me more loot, it's to create a competitive environment. You don't see anyone bitching about racing in Hate or Fear, or Tal which can be a challenging pull. This is completely about removing the competitive aspect of the encounter. That should be altered.

Last SEV FFA FTE was Theya (Bard) sitting on spawn.

Ban all Bards, DA Classes, Pets and Rangers. Hell, only shamen and druids are now allowed to pull dragons.

[Frogie305]

I've never seen this many morons get together to bitch about their inability to rule-lawyer their way out of or into video game shit. Get fucking lives.

says the guy that owns one of these . https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQO-qJZ9xLjHP0pfda7f3pSqW1ECryhfxO-3zFZfaxg0JEdzHw

[Frogie305]

Despawn all Raid targets... Problem solved..

[Mezzmur]

Despawn all Raid targets... Problem solved..

Shut down the server, lets all play Pantheon.

[reborn649]

This just in!

Taken has no capable warriors or clerics to track VS with!

Anonymous poster has zero credibility, therefore his TLDR post is worthless.

Question for Striker though. If Gorenaire and VS are in FFA window, should everyone camp in BW, FM, or FV to make you happy? Clearly no one can even port into DL because it might increase the total allotted number of guildies in the zone in case something pops and disqualify you.

You cant rule lawyer this stuff. Just play as fair as possible without being a total douche.

[Mezzmur]

If you login within 24 hours of a raid spawn, you are not eligible to kill that target, no matter where you logged.

[Yibz]

Last SEV FFA FTE was Theya (Bard) sitting on spawn.

Ban all Bards, DA Classes, Pets and Rangers. Hell, only shamen and druids are now allowed to pull dragons.

Yibz down... Culprit down... I vote for Imslap next

[Mezzmur]

Yibz down... Culprit down... I vote for Imslap next

I'd Real-Bloomin' Onion-Transfer for that.

[Kagatob]

says the guy that owns one of these . https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQQO-qJZ9xLjHP0pfda7f3pSqW1ECryhfxO-3zFZfaxg0JEdzHw

Who are you?

Lurk more, I don't own a daki, that's common knowledge.

[Raavak]

This is completely about removing the competitive aspect of the encounter. That should be altered.How about make VS hard.

[Raavak]

So many lazy ass mutherfuckers complaining about having to compete in order to win. Wtf is wrong with people?

[Burrito]

How about make VS hard.

Inb4 but that's not classic.

[Raavak]

So many lazy ass mutherfuckers complaining about having to compete in order to win. Wtf is wrong with people?

Oh I forgot, its only competition when it meets your definition, not the Classic EQ definition.

[Raavak]

You gotta lift your leg pretty high if you wanna run with the big dogs.

If you want to compete against Class C guilds on FFA mobs you better step up your game. Otherwise stfu and stick to Class R.

[Kagatob]

So many lazy ass mutherfuckers complaining about having to compete in order to win. Wtf is wrong with people?

You are posting a shit ton of 'justifications' and baseless claims for someone who thinks they are in 'the right'.

[Burrito]

When did Tracking become sit inside VS's room for 16 hours and engage him on spot when he spawns with 2 people?

that sounds like camping a mob. hmm camping a mob that has a 16 hour spawn time wow you must have required a few bathroom breaks to sit there for that long, where did you....oh right in your sock.

oh hey wait a min thats poopsocking, i thought that wasn't allowed and frowned upon.

but try harder to spin a 4 am VS kill that had TMO/IB/FE active in KC through the entire window with >2 in the vicinity.

It seems you need a BDA tag to actually eat a raid suspension for breaking rules around here.

On one bright side at least variance is gone so we're not poopsocking >12 hours now for an RNG chance.

[Erati]

On one bright side at least variance is gone so we're not poopsocking >12 hours now for an RNG chance.

well its at 16 hours now....if TMO/IB/FE keep trying to bend the rules and pseudo-sock then it will probably be increased again

which will "shock face" give them an advantage yet again

[FindCorpse]

Seems like the hard cores are coming off pretty whiny here. It was an honest question asked. Could try to talk it out in raid discussion like normal people perhaps? If not this was still a pretty entertaining thread regardless good show everyone.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

When did Tracking become sit inside VS's room for 16 hours and engage him on spot when he spawns with 2 people?

that sounds like camping a mob. hmm camping a mob that has a 16 hour spawn time wow you must have required a few bathroom breaks to sit there for that long, where did you....oh right in your sock.

oh hey wait a min thats poopsocking, i thought that wasn't allowed and frowned upon.

but try harder to spin a 4 am VS kill that had TMO/IB/FE active in KC through the entire window with >2 in the vicinity.

It seems you need a BDA tag to actually eat a raid suspension for breaking rules around here.


When Variance became 16 hours. It was the same way when it went low window before extended windows as well.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Seems like the hard cores are coming off pretty whiny here. It was an honest question asked. Could try to talk it out in raid discussion like normal people perhaps? If not this was still a pretty entertaining thread regardless good show everyone.

Taken is whiny. TMO / FE / IB raced for VS. TMO had a good engage, a tough fight and a clean kill. We went to bed waiting on the next SMS.

[reborn649]

When did Tracking become sit inside VS's room for 16 hours and engage him on spot when he spawns with 2 people?

that sounds like camping a mob. hmm camping a mob that has a 16 hour spawn time wow you must have required a few bathroom breaks to sit there for that long, where did you....oh right in your sock.

oh hey wait a min thats poopsocking, i thought that wasn't allowed and frowned upon.

but try harder to spin a 4 am VS kill that had TMO/IB/FE active in KC through the entire window with >2 in the vicinity.

It seems you need a BDA tag to actually eat a raid suspension for breaking rules around here.

Tracking with 2 people is now poopsocking! Pretty sure raid rules are clear on being able to have 2 people in the vicinity of a raid target. Until GM's clarify the exact spot people need to be camped out for each raid target, get over yourself. You cant bitch and complain because there's a couple people at zoneline in KC when VS spawns because its a "small zone" then be okay with having more than 2+ people in a zone like dreadlands/emerald jungle if gore/sev spawn. The distance a target spawns from the zoneline is not the players fault. Go talk to Brad McQuaid about that.

I'm sorry, but every guild that is now getting raid targets and complaining about anything at all is pathetic. You guys wanted raid-targets and now you got them. During FFA, step up your game if you want more targets. Bring a cleric and warrior down to VS pit instead of crying on the forums. To win, you gotta compete and maybe a cleric/warrior is the only way on VS. Learn, adapt, and STFU cuz your still getting more raid targets than you ever would have on a classic server with 10+ guilds wanting to raid.

[Freakish]

VS was not instant engaged. I'm not giving away our tactics but it worked because we knew how to assess the risk of engaging VS early and it paid off.
We mobilized better than you. Deal with it.

[Reguiy]

Time to invest in socks again.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

so you admit that bc the variance is so low its ok to poopsock now ?

this is why they DIDNT want to lower the variance...bc they didn't trust we couldn't poopsock

Barring server repops, he spawns once every 7 days. As a class C guild you can engage him 2 out of every 3 spawns. He drops a staff maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 times. It's worth your time to sit there when he goes into the bottom half of the window. People sit on fucking ragefire longer than that. We'll sit where the server staff tell us to sit, if you have any other problems please take it up with the server staff who set and enforce the rules.

[hatelore]

Tracking with 2 people is now poopsocking! Pretty sure raid rules are clear on being able to have 2 people in the vicinity of a raid target. Until GM's clarify the exact spot people need to be camped out for each raid target, get over yourself. You cant bitch and complain because there's a couple people at zoneline in KC when VS spawns because its a "small zone" then be okay with having more than 2+ people in a zone like dreadlands/emerald jungle if gore/sev spawn. The distance a target spawns from the zoneline is not the players fault. Go talk to Brad McQuaid about that.

I'm sorry, but every guild that is now getting raid targets and complaining about anything at all is pathetic. You guys wanted raid-targets and now you got them. During FFA, step up your game if you want more targets. Bring a cleric and warrior down to VS pit instead of crying on the forums. To win, you gotta compete and maybe a cleric/warrior is the only way on VS. Learn, adapt, and STFU cuz your still getting more raid targets than you ever would have on a classic server with 10+ guilds wanting to raid.

I have no dog in this fight but... I think the gm's did clarify you can only have 2 guild reps in a zone where a raid target spawns when the actual raid target spawns or you are disqualified from engaging that raid target.

Gm's or neckbeard feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

the race ended 3 seconds after he spawned when their warrior/cleric duo stalled waiting on the rest of the guild to kill it

TMO/FE/IB were poopsocking in the room and engaged him in the room

there was no race, only stall tactics covered by smoke and mirrors

VS's PNP needs to be examined by the guild leaders

VS was up for about 30 seconds before a FTE message. They weren't super quick--and soulfire + DA idol a solo warrior could stall as long as they managed. Unimpressed :p

[Kagatob]

Didn't this happen two weeks ago? Just stay outside the zone line when he's in window.

Fucking children.

[hatelore]

Barring server repops, he spawns once every 7 days. As a class C guild you can engage him 2 out of every 3 spawns. He drops a staff maybe 1 in 3 or 1 in 2 times. It's worth your time to sit there when he goes into the bottom half of the window. People sit on fucking ragefire longer than that. We'll sit where the server staff tell us to sit, if you have any other problems please take it up with the server staff who set and enforce the rules.

The question is, is Ragefire considered a raid target ? No, it's a spawned epic mob. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Naggy on the other hand...

[FindCorpse]

Pretty sure taken just wants to make sure the rules are followed, who here is not familiar with rule lawyering? I wasn't there I didn't see the engage or how many people were in zone when he popped but I would venture a guess it was more than two. Just follow the rules perhaps? Just adding my 2 cents in. I have been listen to fe/ib/tmo complain for like 4 years now nothing has really changed. It's almost comforting at this point I don't know what I would do without all the QQ. Work would go by slower definitely.

[Pint]

this thread sucks, if the better guilds are using better tactics than your guild, just adapt lol

[HeallunRumblebelly]

The question is, is Ragefire considered a raid target ? No, it's a spawned epic mob. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. Naggy on the other hand...

Your point is? I'm simply saying that from a value standpoint it makes sense to be ready and prepared for VS when he spawns, especially if you know he's soon, due to his rarity and quality of loot.

[reborn649]

All the R guilds have ever wanted is a fair shot and clarity as to what is or isn't breaking the rules. Theres a big difference in literally rule lawyering the black and white text of a rule and using the rules 'spirit' to guide you.


You got your fair shot with the new raid rules, so thats not the problem here. The problem is there is some "gray" area in the rules that the GM's have not spoke up on. According to the way most of the server has interpreted those rules, other than the BDA versus Trakanon scenario, it has worked. If GM's arent speaking up after being so heavily involved with the raid-rule agreement to begin with, than they must think its working. Until someone else is randomly banned (yibz for example), we unfortunately dont have a clear answer and remain in the gray area. Unless it is a BLATANT disregard for the rules, which I haven't saw yet except for the BDA/Trakanon scenario, I think most guilds are trying to follow the PnP as close as possible.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Pretty sure taken just wants to make sure the rules are followed, who here is not familiar with rule lawyering? I wasn't there I didn't see the engage or how many people were in zone when he popped but I would venture a guess it was more than two. Just follow the rules perhaps? Just adding my 2 cents in. I have been listen to fe/ib/tmo complain for like 4 years now nothing has really changed. It's almost comforting at this point I don't know what I would do without all the QQ. Work would go by slower definitely.

From those of us who were there, the rules were followed to a T. TMO had the best execution and engage. Such is life. That's why this thread is fucking useless. There has been shady shit in VP (dat 4 pullers under phara dar) and we've brought it up, but this is not one of those times.

[Gnomersy]

Your point is? I'm simply saying that from a value standpoint it makes sense to be ready and prepared for VS when he spawns, especially if you know he's soon, due to his rarity and quality of loot.

This is like...the definition of poopsocking?

[Gnomersy]

You got your fair shot with the new raid rules, so thats not the problem here. The problem is there is some "gray" area in the rules that the GM's have not spoke up on. According to the way most of the server has interpreted those rules, other than the BDA versus Trakanon scenario, it has worked. If GM's arent speaking up after being so heavily involved with the raid-rule agreement to begin with, than they must think its working. Until someone else is randomly banned (yibz for example), we unfortunately dont have a clear answer and remain in the gray area. Unless it is a BLATANT disregard for the rules, which I haven't saw yet except for the BDA/Trakanon scenario, I think most guilds are trying to follow the PnP as close as possible.

How is it blatantly different?? Iirc from juggs 1 to trak is longer run than zone line to VS

[HeallunRumblebelly]

This is like...the definition of poopsocking?

It's an 8 hour camp. God help you if you need to camp pained soul.

[Kagatob]

This is like...the definition of poopsocking?

Reading comprehension for the fail. "Be ready" means don't have your force in zone so you don't get disqualified from the kill.

Or are you trying to spin? Either way you're wrong.

[FindCorpse]

I will say if the rules were followed to the T, then this is literally a thread whining about whining which I find hilarious! Not much more to be said about it then really.

[Raavak]

It's an 8 hour camp. God help you if you need to camp pained soul.lol

[Emsee]

What about taken camping in TT right at the zone-line while their tracker sat on the spawn. Instant engage, everyone zones over while its being pulled, kill, congrats.

Nobody cried about that, obviously its poopsocking, and you guys were glad to have won it. How the hell is that any different lol.

[Kagatob]

What about taken camping in TT right at the zone-line while their tracker sat on the spawn. Instant engage, everyone zones over while its being pulled, kill, congrats.

Nobody cried about that, obviously its poopsocking, and you guys were glad to have won it. How the hell is that any different lol.

That's not poopsocking.

[hatelore]

Your point is? I'm simply saying that from a value standpoint it makes sense to be ready and prepared for VS when he spawns, especially if you know he's soon, due to his rarity and quality of loot.

Hey, don't get mad at hatelore smatelore. I'm just saying, you can be as prepared as you want, as long as you only have 2 guildies in the zone when he spawns.

[Fuddwin]

That's not poopsocking.

Lol... It's "different" because they got the mob....

Poor Taken (Variety)

[Raavak]

They only had 1 char, not 2. Therefore its not poopsocking.

:/

Whatever !

[Swifty]

People sit on fucking ragefire longer than that.

This.

Taken and BDA can Poopsock RF for days farming plat.

[Raavak]

It's an 8 hour camp. God help you if you need to camp pained soul.Casuals will cry that Pained Soul isn't playing nice and want to have him changed to pop on their schedule or something.

[Thulack]

It's not poopsocking because we didnt have toons logged in in TT waiting for a mob to pop. Had 1 toon in EJ at spawn point and everyone else was LOGGED OUT in TT as which was stated by the rules allowed. Notice the difference there LOGGED OUT

[Emsee]

Oh I see, it's not poopsocking even if you auto engage, just as long as the pull leaves you time enough to let your guild log in, check.

[Thulack]

I propose that striiker makes a list on how every class should be played during a raid situation. While he is at it he should make a list how every raid mob should be pulled.

If we had a list of the do's and don'ts for each encounter then we wouldnt have all of this. Because obviously a blanket list of do's and don'ts doesnt apply to everyone.

[Thulack]

Oh I see, it's not poopsocking even if you auto engage, just as long as the pull leaves you time enough to let your guild log in, check.

Funny how your trying to be a smartass but your actually correct. Thanks. :D

[Thulack]

Oh I see, it's not poopsocking even if you auto engage, just as long as the pull leaves you time enough to let your guild log in, check.

You really don't understand what poopsocking is do you?

poopsocking-
Defacating into a sock in order to avoid having to get up from your computer to use the toilet. Often utilized when playing online role playing games.

If we arent online we arent sitting at our computer pooping into socks. Get it now?

[Reguiy]

You got your fair shot with the new raid rules, so thats not the problem here. The problem is there is some "gray" area in the rules that the GM's have not spoke up on. According to the way most of the server has interpreted those rules, other than the BDA versus Trakanon scenario, it has worked. If GM's arent speaking up after being so heavily involved with the raid-rule agreement to begin with, than they must think its working. Until someone else is randomly banned (yibz for example), we unfortunately dont have a clear answer and remain in the gray area. Unless it is a BLATANT disregard for the rules, which I haven't saw yet except for the BDA/Trakanon scenario, I think most guilds are trying to follow the PnP as close as possible.

You're right about GMs needing to specify the gray area. This mainly stems from the difference in mentality when it comes to the raid scene between the "casuals" and the "hardcore". The class R guilds are always erring on the side of caution when it comes to bending the rules. They don't want to piss off the GMs and get raid banned. They're trying to follow the PNP rules and lawyer as little as possible. On the other hand, the class C guilds are constantly brainstorming ways to bend the rules and work around the PNP and new raid policies.

Class C guilds make create the grey areas. I really wish class C wouldn't constantly be bending the rules so GMs didn't have to intervene and give rulings every time a mob died. Wouldn't it be great if we could just log in and race each other when a mob spawned? No stalling, no socking, no rule bending or lawyering, just all log in at the same spot and race. O well.

[Gnomersy]

Reading comprehension for the fail. "Be ready" means don't have your force in zone so you don't get disqualified from the kill.

Or are you trying to spin? Either way you're wrong.

Kagatabob coming in midstroke and ruining everything per usual. They were equating being at zone in with 5 as "being ready". Them cartoons affecting your intelligence guy.

[Emsee]

You really don't understand what poopsocking is do you?

poopsocking-
Defacating into a sock in order to avoid having to get up from your computer to use the toilet. Often utilized when playing online role playing games.

If we arent online we arent sitting at our computer pooping into socks. Get it now?

I get it perfectly. There simply is no difference between a tracker auto pulling a mob and a clr/war sitting at a spawn. Both are engaging when it pops. Why cry about one and not the other.

[Gaffin 7.0]

op is faggot

[Kagatob]

Kagatabob coming in midstroke and ruining everything per usual. They were equating being at zone in with 5 as "being ready". Them cartoons affecting your intelligence guy.

Can they down the mob with those 5? Last I checked A-Team can.

Spin harder.

[Sly]

here we go

[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [60 Assassin] Skew (Wood Elf) <Forceful Entry>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Mirgan <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Theya <Taken>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Eratani <Taken>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Vihn
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Snackromancer <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [60 Warlock] Floppie (Iksar) <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Broccolli <Forceful Entry>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] There are 8 players in The Emerald Jungle.

So I was face tracking sev at his spawn point

[Tue Feb 04 11:19:26 2014] You say, 'so why are the casual skummm guild suddenly tracking and stuff? why didnt you do this 2 yrs ago and get fat loots'

[Tue Feb 04 11:19:54 2014] Theya says, '4day plus variance? =p'

[Tue Feb 04 11:20:15 2014] Eratani says, 'i only see semi casual scum here'

taken did have 2 people tracking him

[Fame]

Play on red you faggots

[Clark]

Well sorry to rain in on this Tier C circle jerk onto the R guilds everyone in here is having but I am here to share some truths about the last VS that NO ONE is mentioning

1. At around 1 AM ( just under half way through VS's window) there were 7 FE in zone and 2 IB

7+2=9 > 2

TMO was sitting there with 5 in zone at 1 am

5 > 2

But Insane-Truthteller we only had 2 on the spawn !!! thats all the rules say.

Well tell that to BDA who got suspended for a week and loot deleted for killing Trak after having killed some mobs near ills jail/jugs.

Sorry but KC is way smaller to navigate around, this seems wrong and should be clarified.

OH WAIT. You guys love to say that R guilds asking for clarification on very gray area rules = asking for free loot handouts

give me a fucking break. No one is asking for handouts we just want a somewhat fair shot at racing to these mobs. You know what racing is ?

Obviously you all don't because if you did you wouldn't be sitting in VS's room for 16 hours with a healer and a tank

where is the race there. You returned the raid scene to the old poopsocking ways, bravo well done.

It only took 1 month before you bent the rules in your favor just enough that the smaller guilds ( who are capable of killing this shit) that FFA VS cannot be even attempted with a tank/healer sitting in the room for 16 hours

Grats on making the server a better place for all!

Seriously though if you guys cared about the competition you wouldn't be so chicken shit scared to sit in the room like that. It's because the R guilds are a threat and you are scared to lose mobs to them.

Rather than tip your hat off to a nice race and won competition you rather everything be RNG and just see who these mobs aggro first once they spawn.

chief you are a moron. Pet pulling is retarded. These pathing nodes are well known by all hardcore neck beards you think its legit that 5-6 pets can just be parked along a known path to see which skeleton he chooses?

also the rules Striker is talking about only means the trackers themselves can't be the first to engage, they have to you know alert their guilds so then the actual fun part of the raiding game happens.

Mobilization, formation, pull and kill.

You guys would rather just Pull, mobilize, kill. No racing. No competition. Just RNG.

RNG is all you guys want anyway, let the pixels decide who they belong to.

Class R guilds just want a fair shot. Europa got made fun of for sitting in the KC zone in yet IB/FE/TMO all hung out in KC through the entire window.

'We just had a group' .... 'It is an exp zone I exp where I want'

..... yea ok...


16 hour window was provided to us by the Server Staff lets not fuck it up by poopsocking. Abusing the 16hour window by pseudo-socking should be looked at as a violation of the PNP.

R guilds could always compete, the only thing that held them back is variance and dirty tactics.

Well the variance is shorter so they are able to compete but the dirty tactics that the R guilds do not condone in still put them at a disadvantage.

Do you have brain damage? This is a lot of single sentences; jibberjabber.

[Emsee]

When we win we are clearly following the rules, when we lose someone is clearly breaking them

ftfy

[Reguiy]

No longer is poopsocking sitting near the spawn point with characters logged in ready to them. This is called "being ready and prepared".


lol'd

[arsenalpow]

Play on red you faggots

Making my red character RIGHT NOW. Who do I contact for loot?

[Portsche]

Eh, TMO killed draco last night too, I'm sure there's already a petition in for the bone razors because he was pulled with a jav or something.

THERE WERE BONE RAZORS?!?

/petition going in for Zagum lying to us. Keeping phat loots and linking us this crap:

[Mon Feb 10 23:44:55 2014] You say to your guild, 'Staff of Undead Legions, Withered Totem of Widdershins, Nilitim's Grimoire Pg. 401'

[Mezzmur]

So far what we see in this thread:

Class C guilds redefining poopsocking.

No longer is poopsocking sitting near the spawn point with characters logged in ready to them. This is called "being ready and prepared".

Sure makes sense to be ready and prepared for a 16 hour window that was given to us because WE PROMISED NOT TO POOPSOCK

Also some Class C guilds are comparing Taken's 'whining about VS' directly to their Sev kill.

Well I have news for you, having 2 trackers at the spawn point who PULL the mob to the raid resembles nothing like poopsocking.

They are simply tagging a FFA mob and bringing it directly to their camp. That is called competition, as anyone had a fair shot to tag the mob.

Poopsocking in VS's room for 16 hours with the intent to stall til the raid shows up is shady and does not follow in the spirit of the PNP that was created to allow guilds actually 'race' each other for the spawn rights.

Sure next FFA VS we will have 2 additional cleric/tank teams in there. The following one another 2 more. Soon we will have 25 people parked in VS's room again.

Yay progress. You can thank the rule bending, rule lawyering Class C guilds for a better raid scene.

Can we pull VS to zone in yet? Problem solved.

[Burrito]

Making my red character RIGHT NOW. Who do I contact for loot?

Casual faggot- you don't contact anyone, you murder other players and loot their shit. That's how it works right?

[Took]

This server gets worse every day. You guys should lobby for a bag of dragon loot to just be given to you upon character creation.

[Reguiy]

Play on red you faggots

You make a compelling argument. Sound logic and an eloquent thought process. Logging on red to get my lvl 19 wizard up there right now. Perhaps you could refer me to a reputable guild to join?

[Lazie]

Hey, don't get mad at hatelore smatelore. I'm just saying, you can be as prepared as you want, as long as you only have 2 guildies in the zone when he spawns.

No where does it say 2 guild members in the zone. It says "Guilds may not have any more than two representatives present at a raid spawn location.". No one ever said you couldn't have people at the zone line. In fact it never uses the word zone at all. "Raid Spawn Location" I think everyone can understand what is too close to the spawn if you plan to engage it. If you misunderstood the rules and camped out in DL that isn't the fault of other guilds.

[Thulack]

here we go

[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [60 Assassin] Skew (Wood Elf) <Forceful Entry>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Mirgan <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Theya <Taken>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Eratani <Taken>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Vihn
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Snackromancer <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [60 Warlock] Floppie (Iksar) <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] [ANONYMOUS] Broccolli <Forceful Entry>
[Tue Feb 04 11:13:22 2014] There are 8 players in The Emerald Jungle.

So I was face tracking sev at his spawn point

[Tue Feb 04 11:19:26 2014] You say, 'so why are the casual skummm guild suddenly tracking and stuff? why didnt you do this 2 yrs ago and get fat loots'

[Tue Feb 04 11:19:54 2014] Theya says, '4day plus variance? =p'

[Tue Feb 04 11:20:15 2014] Eratani says, 'i only see semi casual scum here'

taken did have 2 people tracking him

point being? still allowed within rules. i forgot eratani was there giving theya footrubs so she could run laps around your trackers.

[Kagatob]

No where does it say 2 guild members in the zone. It says "Guilds may not have any more than two representatives present at a raid spawn location.". No one ever said you couldn't have people at the zone line. In fact it never uses the word zone at all. "Raid Spawn Location" I think everyone can understand what is too close to the spawn if you plan to engage it. If you misunderstood the rules and camped out in DL that isn't the fault of other guilds.
You never learn do you.
anything that requires this much rule-lawyer text to explain that your tactics are 'ok' probably isn't all that genuine in the spirit of PNP

At least some people get it.

[arsenalpow]

No where does it say 2 guild members in the zone. It says "Guilds may not have any more than two representatives present at a raid spawn location.". No one ever said you couldn't have people at the zone line. In fact it never uses the word zone at all. "Raid Spawn Location" I think everyone can understand what is too close to the spawn if you plan to engage it. If you misunderstood the rules and camped out in DL that isn't the fault of other guilds.

BDA's raid force was at illis jail when Trak popped, 6 minutes prior they had aggroed a see invis jugg at the invis wall. That was too close apparently. The rule still doesn't specify how close is too close. We found out by being suspended and have asked for clarification since. Toeing the line and not getting suspended is success?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

BDA's raid force was at illis jail when Trak popped, 6 minutes prior they had aggroed a see invis jugg at the invis wall. That was too close apparently. The rule still doesn't specify how close is too close. We found out by being suspended and have asked for clarification since. Toeing the line and not getting suspended is success?

We're looking for concrete rules as well. Everyone had been inside KC at zone in (as we have for years waiting for targets) so we sat there as well. If they'd like to clarify those rules we'd be more than happy to follow them. People sit at the zone in to seb for trak as well, I'd imagine this is similar.

[White Ranger Rides]

op is faggot

[Lazie]

anything that requires this much rule-lawyer text to explain that your tactics are 'ok' probably isn't all that genuine in the spirit of PNP

Just the opposite. Having to explain this so you and others have to understand is taxing. It's in plain english and you guys seem to be struggling to grasp it.

[Kasyra]

Out of curiosity do any of you 79 people that were logged into KC last night 35 seconds after VS pop A: Have a career, B: A life, C: a female of some sort other then your mother/grandmother in your home, or did you just sit at char select staring at your character and your phone that your mom bought you ready to click "enter world" when a text message from "Other Lonely Virgin" sent a batphone?

Please, tell us more about how awesome you are...oh wait, youre posting here too so nevermind.

[Lazie]

BDA's raid force was at illis jail when Trak popped, 6 minutes prior they had aggroed a see invis jugg at the invis wall. That was too close apparently. The rule still doesn't specify how close is too close. We found out by being suspended and have asked for clarification since. Toeing the line and not getting suspended is success?


BDA had members at poop mountain 4 minutes before he spawned. I know I was there tracking. A few had moved back to illis jail before then but not all. Then they eventually moved back as well. Trak spawned and all of your members that had been in Trak's lair not even 10 minutes before "Practicing to engage" came storming back into his lair. Trying to compare KC ZL to what BDA did at that Trak is just not very intelligent.

Your guild cleared mobs that would have been in the way prior to his spawning and just ran back in when he spawned. It was a clear violation of rules what happened there. You had a raid there clearing mobs and they were part of the raid that engaged and killed Trak. FE/IB and TMO sitting at KC ZL or any zone line not killing anything close to targets is nowhere near the same.

[Emsee]

The class R guilds are always erring on the side of caution when it comes to bending the rules. They don't want to piss off the GMs and get raid banned. They're trying to follow the PNP rules and lawyer as little as possible. On the other hand, the class C guilds are constantly brainstorming ways to bend the rules and work around the PNP and new raid policies

lol

[White Ranger Rides]

interesting.....so when a FE cleric was exping in LCY half way tru VS's window, was this to clear the courtyard so FE could run through unhindered by mobs

or was did he just have a craving for crappy KC group exp at 1 am

gosh darn, i mean with only 16 hours windows bros think about it, thats barely the Pain Soul camp you guys have each done 3-4 times. This aint shit, VS = the new loot piñata

What?

[Mezzmur]

No where does it say 2 guild members in the zone. It says "Guilds may not have any more than two representatives present at a raid spawn location.". No one ever said you couldn't have people at the zone line. In fact it never uses the word zone at all. "Raid Spawn Location" I think everyone can understand what is too close to the spawn if you plan to engage it. If you misunderstood the rules and camped out in DL that isn't the fault of other guilds.

I would also like to note that BDA was CLEARING MOBS to GET CLOSER TO TRAK FASTER (even if they happened to leave, it helped gain an advantage).

If the "5 extra people" at zone in were clearing all the mobs between ZI and LCY to VS pit, then I could see the argument.

[Lammy]

the race ended 3 seconds after he spawned when their warrior/cleric duo stalled waiting on the rest of the guild to kill it

TMO/FE/IB were poopsocking in the room and engaged him in the room

there was no race, only stall tactics covered by smoke and mirrors

VS's PNP needs to be examined by the guild leaders

Every point you made is false

[Detoxx]

ITT:

Casuals get beat, and cry.

More at 11!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

ITT:

Casuals get beat, and cry.

More at 11!

It's not even that they were beat. They weren't even there! Like what, 10 taken in zone?

[Detoxx]

At least FE/IB can admit when they are just out-raced, and not try to implement even more rules to kill this "classic" server more.

[Lazie]

interesting.....so when a FE cleric was exping in LCY half way tru VS's window, was this to clear the courtyard so FE could run through unhindered by mobs

or was did he just have a craving for crappy KC group exp at 1 am

gosh darn, i mean with only 16 hours windows bros think about it, thats barely the Pain Soul camp you guys have each done 3-4 times. This aint shit, VS = the new loot piñata

You should probably just stop typing. FE/IB and TMO have a lot of members not KoS to the dogs in KC. This is a benefit of killing mobs in VP. A quick drink of a IVU pot and the majority can get there without aggroing a single mob if they watch the pathing of the little dogs. Of course mistakes still happen and a train can happen... but mobs being cleared isn't a big priority in KC for those 3 guilds.

[Detoxx]

It's not even that they were beat. They weren't even there! Like what, 10 taken in zone?

Good point

[Detoxx]

whats this have to do with a cleric exping in LCY, a stone throw away from VS's room while there were already 2 tracks in/right next to his room

IVU and drolvarg faction doesn't change the fact FE/IB/TMO inching closer and closer to poopsocking

I find it hard to even entertain your thoughts, being that you are Anon_troll_01, just let the guy bitch Lazie, don't feed the trolls!

[Hitpoint]

whats this have to do with a cleric exping in LCY, a stone throw away from VS's room while there were already 2 tracks in/right next to his room

IVU and drolvarg faction doesn't change the fact FE/IB/TMO inching closer and closer to poopsocking

He was probably just exping...

[White Ranger Rides]

I find it hard to even entertain your thoughts, being that you are Anon_troll_01, just let the guy bitch Lazie, don't feed the trolls!

Join date: 2-11-14

I'm doing my part to keep the forum quest population thriving.

[Hitpoint]

its not poopsocking bros because its in a zone where merbs give exp!

also its not poopsocking bros because its called being 'ready and prepared' for mobs that have good loot and will guarantee to spawn during such a short window !

We made it clear that anyone who chooses to be past the zone in when VS spawns is not allowed to participate in the engage. Even asking people to leave the zone. See http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139128.

For a truthteller you sure are misinformed.

[Raavak]

Join date: 2-11-14

I'm doing my part to keep the forum quest population thriving.Hey, Insane-Truthteller, stop being a fag.

[Hitpoint]

I think this is why class R exists. No?

[Mezzmur]

I think this is why class R exists. No?

50% or we crai.

[Raavak]

I think this is why class R exists. No?Stop making sense!

[White Ranger Rides]

I think this is why class R exists. No?

Yes, but only when class R guilds want to dictate the terms of class R. See example:The tiers exist to differentiate play-styles, not levels of gear or access to content (besides VP). If Dildjo wants to play competitively, theirs 2/3s of the mobs for that.
When class R guilds want more than their allotted dragon of the week (the term dragon being used to encompass all raid mobs) the the class distinction is no longer a fundamental playstyle difference and all classes should adhere to their definition of raiding. Make sense?

[Kasyra]

says october 2013 join date

k

which just serves to prove my point, thanks for doing that.

[Breaken]

Straight from Rogean about BDA's Trakanon suspension...


"That is way too close, not to mention the spirit of this rule should indiciate that it is unacceptable to have a raid force anywhere in the zone when a raid mob spawned, as it is an unfair advantage over the other guilds following the rules."

I'm not saying 5 is a raid force, but then, what is?

[slappytwotoes]

We're looking for concrete rules as well. Everyone had been inside KC at zone in (as we have for years waiting for targets) so we sat there as well. If they'd like to clarify those rules we'd be more than happy to follow them. People sit at the zone in to seb for trak as well, I'd imagine this is similar.

Which is honestly what Striker's post is trying to do. OP rips on the recommendations presented but maybe this gets server staff's attention when other ways of asking haven't.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

The whole point of the play nice policy, specifically in the FFA cycles, was to promote competition
These tactics aren't fostering competition.
There's no race. VS spawns and a cleric/warrior pair stalls for X seconds while a force that's been logged in for Y hours at the KC entrance beelines to VS. That's not really competition. I know RnF is already blowing up about this because it's fun to rip on the class R guilds but anyone who thinks this is tantamount to competition needs to get their fucking head checked. What's done is done, but going forward I'd like there to be actual competition and not a roll of the dice to see which pet Sev/Fay aggros or which warrior/cleric duo can snap off a mallet/net charge 3.2 seconds after VS spawns.

I do not understand how you can care about competition when you are a co inventor of class R-otation. Seriously LOL. You do not want any competition imo.

Not just singling you out , just using your post as an example . Almost everyone followed suite with you and are saying the same thing.

I am not sure why you (and all of those class R leaders posting) are acting like TMO had a force waiting, already logged in already at KC entrance. Like we just sitting there waiting to run back.
Which is not true. If we did have 4-5 at entrance it was because we had just taken down Draco an people was still moving around an setting up in case of VS etc. TMO just logged in faster. Sure you could change the trackers cannot engage rule, make a bit more race. (not a terrible idea) But would it really be any different?

What more do you guys want?...

[quido]

It was stated that being at the KC/Seb zone-in is fine.

[Breaken]

Where? By who?

[quido]

Who said that wasn't alright? It was just a demonstration of how dumb the new raid rules are.

[Breaken]

I believe Rogean said it wasn't alright. Hence the quote that was posted.

[quido]

so you are cool with all guilds actively sitting at the KC zone in with their raid force ?

Cool with it? No. But do I think it's against the rules? No I do not.

I think that quote is being taken out of context, Breaken. It was stated that the zone-in is alright. A raid force, or any force other than the 2 trackers/engagers, anywhere except the zone-in is a violation of the rules. At least that was my take on it.

You could easily have a force of people able to kill VS at the zone-in by mere coincidence of them idling afk and looking for ports and such.

[quido]

Disallowing people to use KC as the travel hub that it is is absurd. I don't think this is what was meant.

[Frogie305]

despawn all raid mobs..... Until Pantheon is Released... = $$$$$$

[Breaken]

So, you assume that Rogean did not mean what he said, because it sounds absurd to you?

You again mention that it was said zone in is ok, but where was that said? It might have been, but I haven't seen it.

[Gnomersy]

Cool with it? No. But do I think it's against the rules? No I do not.

I think that quote is being taken out of context, Breaken. It was stated that the zone-in is alright. A raid force, or any force other than the 2 trackers/engagers, anywhere except the zone-in is a violation of the rules. At least that was my take on it.

You could easily have a force of people able to kill VS at the zone-in by mere coincidence of them idling afk and looking for ports and such.

Im not disagreeing but kind of a large assumption that its ok.

[quido]

Where? By who?

I am looking for where this was stated, but I know it was. Someone help me find it. This was definitely stated somewhere.

[quido]

Time to lawyer up!

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Cool with it? No. But do I think it's against the rules? No I do not.

I think that quote is being taken out of context, Breaken. It was stated that the zone-in is alright. A raid force, or any force other than the 2 trackers/engagers, anywhere except the zone-in is a violation of the rules. At least that was my take on it.

You could easily have a force of people able to kill VS at the zone-in by mere coincidence of them idling afk and looking for ports and such.

Another point they keep forgetting Jeremy is TMO didnt have a damn force at the zone in. They magically pulled that outta the hat and all are going along with it. Trying to rule change on something that did not happen.
Yea we might of had 4-5 but like I said Draco had just died, and we was still moving and setting up. They are acting in the raid thread (havent seen it disagreed with even) that TMO had a force at entrance like that Europa screenshot or some shit. When really our force was camped out, an just mobilized in faster.

actually this would make things a lot different because it would involve guilds mobilizing to kill things after a mob spawns instead of before it spawns....

You think it had nothing to do with mobilization? you are wrong an just feeding off the shit they are posting in raid section that cannot be debated, or isnt being debated. There was no full force of TMO ready to run back instantly. They logged in and moved fast. ie mobilized faster than everyone.
I said the rule change wouldnt be bad, an it surely would not be big. In the sense that doing that will not make that big of a difference. Mobilization was a key part of that VS.

[Hitpoint]

Where? By who?

Zone-ins are fine. We don't need proof when something has been accepted and put into practice for over a month now. No GM has said anything about it, despite numerous posts (see bellow) and I'm sure petitions by class R.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138177

[Breaken]

Right, I am not disagreeing that KC zone line does not help (as long as others are doing it / can do it). And if it was stated, so be it. But as Gnomersy said, that is a large assumption that you feel Rogean did not mean what he said. I would personally make the large assumption that Rogean would be VERY careful in wording a publicly advertised raid suspension. Therefore meaning every letter of that sentence.

[Hitpoint]

You're talking about people being logged in at zone line... In that case I have no idea. Seems like we're just trying to be reasonable and not abuse anything so far. And I don't think any guild has.

[quido]

I think you're just trying to twist Rogean's words to suit you.

Gonna keep staying to zone-ins. If you don't like it, do something about it.

[khanable]

Zone-ins are fine. We don't need proof when something has been accepted and put into practice for over a month now. No GM has said anything about it, despite numerous posts (see bellow) and I'm sure petitions by class R.

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138177

Sirken did say something

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1293064&postcount=9

I think this is why some think you can't have folks logged into the zone, no matter where

IMO: I don't really care either way

[khanable]

And I also don't think any guild is intentionally trying to abuse anything - just playing by the rules written on raid.php.

There are conflicting statements elsewhere on the forum, though, which creates a headache.

[kotton05]

Yep. Because Taken NEVER gets FFA targets.

[quido]

They make up all these dumb rules, then refuse to be here to clarify them.

Real smart

[Breaken]

I don't care if people log inside the zone either, I think most people just don't want to see a "raid force" inside a zone that a mob will pop in. But the definition of a raid force is rather ambiguous. And again, I do not know if any guild had a raid force in KC last night, but it is for future reference.

[quido]

I think VS is single groupable

[kotton05]

love how quick they are to qq when they got the rotation

[Mac Dretti]

EverQuest

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

love how quick they are to qq when they got the rotation
^

I propose that we all agree to not log out in zones with target pops imminent and to mandate that guild members in the zone (other than trackers) not be involved in the engage however that got nowhere.. Perhaps we can get some agreement on this one point as a start? The windows are 16 hours so I am sure that members can resist killing Drolvarg #420 for a short period of time for example. Trackers can easily see who is in zone and check combat logs to see if those people are involved with heals, fighting, etc so that should be sufficient. This would be something all guilds can agree upon and we would not need to drag staff into it. If they get involved, it can be a lot harsher a policy than is wanted.

TMO had it very clear to members not to be in the zone during VS hours exping. An I am pretty sure there was 0 TMO exping during the window. If there was a few at the zone in ( for sure not a force we only had 25 or so total in the end) they was there because TMO had just got done doing draco, was moving to setup for Fay and VS and people buffing etc and re camping. An that would of been 5 people max.

I believe all guilds going for FFA targets like Trak/VS/SEV are doing this? Or should be. No groups exping can just go in an engage, I thought this was already a thing?

So say that your change goes into effect, the guilds must camp outside the zone? still would of been the same result.
Or as the others in this thread have said to make it so trackers cannot engage? Still TMO mobilized an ran back with a force faster than anyone. It will make it a bit more racey but not that huge of a change.
Do not see what all the fuss is about...
Velious is on the horizon, be happy.

[khanable]

^



TMO had it very clear to members not to be in the zone during VS hours exping. An I am pretty sure there was 0 TMO exping during the window. If there was a few at the zone in ( for sure not a force we only had 25 or so total in the end) they was there because TMO had just got done doing draco, was moving to setup for Fay and VS and people buffing etc and re camping. An that would of been 5 people max.

I believe all guilds going for FFA targets like Trak/VS/SEV are doing this? Or should be. No groups exping can just go in an engage, I thought this was already a thing?

So say that your change goes into effect, the guilds must camp outside the zone? still would of been the same result.
Or as the others in this thread have said to make it so trackers cannot engage? Still TMO mobilized an ran back with a force faster than anyone. It will make it a bit more racey but not that huge of a change.
Do not see what all the fuss is about...
Velious is on the horizon, be happy.

I don't think you guys did anything wrong. It's really coming down to interpratation of the rules. The rules listed on raid.php are set in stone - you guys broke none of these. The random rules on the forums do say otherwise, but no clarification was ever given.

I know BDA is playing it ultra-safe. If this was us in the situation, I would have called for a forfeit on our part just because we had more than 2 folks in zone when the mob popped. This is just us though, and I'm sure you can understand why I'd take the cautious route.

Probably just going to need to setup some sort of gentleman's agreement amongst guilds about what is OK and what isn't OK.

[Lron]

These rules are all messed up. Every guild can just "experience" in these zones with non guilded alts.

Poopsocking will be here forever, get over it.

[chief]

or guilds can just poopsock in DL with their 40+ people

[khanable]

or guilds can just poopsock in DL with their 40+ people

Honestly this would probably be the most black/white option that doesn't allow tampering.

"Entrance", you mean in the corner by the zone line? Not beyond the bridge? Not beyond the exact zone in spot?

Vs

"Out of the fucking zone"

With extra added bonus of mass LD's because 80 people tried to zone in at once. Classic?!

[Lron]

Are there any genuine "races" for mobs now that you can only poop sock outside the entrance of a zone instead of at the raid spawn?

If there is, I can see this rule having value...if not, its just making poop socking legal outside a zone instead of inside it.

[chief]

hey lron do us all a favour and stfu

[Kagatob]

Honestly this would probably be the most black/white option that doesn't allow tampering.

"Entrance", you mean in the corner by the zone line? Not beyond the bridge? Not beyond the exact zone in spot?

Vs

"Out of the fucking zone"

With extra added bonus of mass LD's because 80 people tried to zone in at once. Classic?!

Class C raid mobs need to be signed up for ahead of time and individual toons need to be flagged to be able to engage said encounters. All flagged characters are then restricted to the east commonlands zone only until the mob spawns, from there the guilds/characters need to run and mobilize for all mobs.

[JayN]

BAN TMO!!!!

i thought they were raid banned till velious damn those #1 cheaters

[Rellapse36]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrurivtsvKY#t=73

[JayN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrurivtsvKY#t=73

rofl

[phacemeltar]

Casual faggot- you don't contact anyone, you murder other players and loot their shit. That's how it works right?

ah yes indeed

[Unidus]

Just add a 10 minute DT frenzy when the mob spawns. Kills anyone and everyone that aggros for the first 10 minutes.

[White Ranger Rides]

Just add a 10 minute DT frenzy when the mob spawns. Kills anyone and everyone that aggros for the first 10 minutes.

Knights Who Say Stupid Shit must have been a little too long for a guild name, huh?

[Gnomersy]

Anonymous Human douche receptacle Wouldn't fit either huh?

[Alarti0001]

I see the casuals are slowly inching their way towards having the "summon items for me" forum section.

It will be a glorious day. Log in, get items handed to you, log out. Think of how happy everyone will be.

Get those macros ready Sirken. I'll compile some best in slot lists for each class along with useful clickies.

QFT

[Raavak]

Knights Who Say Stupid Shit must have been a little too long for a guild name, huh?ROFL

[Tenlaar]

They make up all these dumb rules, then refuse to be here to clarify them.

Real smart
Yeah, because...
it's my understanding that if you are in the zone when the raid mob pops, then you are no longer allowed to engage that raid mob. if a guild ignores that and engages anyway, then they are violating the Raid Policy.
...is so unclear, who could possibly understand that secret code!

Real smart.

[jaybone]

Knights Who Say Stupid Shit must have been a little too long for a guild name, huh?

White Ranger Who Sucks Dick must have been taken.

[Heartbeats]

This thread epitomizes why I don't want to play here anymore. 90% of you are huge faggots. The terminology like "Class X" getting thrown around with the explanations of why what you do is okay and what other people do isn't is just, really gay. I don't understand why rules need to keep changing anyway. If there's one set of rules, it doesn't really matter what they are because they apply to everybody. Do you see the Browns constantly lobbying Roger Gooddell to change the rules of the NFL to make it more "competitive?" Point being, if you're a shit guild that doesn't get raid targets just fire your Head Coach, draft Brady Quinn or something, STFU and try again next year.

[Moodie]

No where in striker's post did he ask for loot to be handed to R Guilds.

We don't want stuff appearing out of thin air. Kind of ironic that the people claiming that we do, had 86 accounts banned for, you know... making things appear out of thin air

[Burrito]

No where in striker's post did he ask for loot to be handed to R Guilds.

We don't want stuff appearing out of thin air. Kind of ironic that the people claiming that we do, had 86 accounts banned for, you know... making things appear out of thin air

http://i.imgur.com/pcXhw0V.jpg

[Man0warr]

That image never gets old.

[idontbuff]

No where in striker's post did he ask for loot to be handed to R Guilds.

We don't want stuff appearing out of thin air. Kind of ironic that the people claiming that we do, had 86 accounts banned for, you know... making things appear out of thin air

possibly because they're cock sucking faggots that are afraid of losing pixels?

[Reguiy]

No where in striker's post did he ask for loot to be handed to R Guilds.

We don't want stuff appearing out of thin air. Kind of ironic that the people claiming that we do, had 86 accounts banned for, you know... making things appear out of thin air

Lol (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYje57V_BY)

[radditsu]

or guilds can just poopsock in DL with their 40+ people

Unless gore is in window. Frontier mountains beyatch.

[radditsu]

This thread epitomizes why I don't want to play here anymore. 90% of you are huge faggots. The terminology like "Class X" getting thrown around with the explanations of why what you do is okay and what other people do isn't is just, really gay. I don't understand why rules need to keep changing anyway. If there's one set of rules, it doesn't really matter what they are because they apply to everybody. Do you see the Browns constantly lobbying Roger Gooddell to change the rules of the NFL to make it more "competitive?" Point being, if you're a shit guild that doesn't get raid targets just fire your Head Coach, draft Brady Quinn or something, STFU and try again next year.

****** that is what a salary cap is. ****** that is what the NFL Draft is.
Small market lobbying to make football competitive. 90% of the rules are about parity in the NFL... if it is not lipservice to safety.

[radditsu]

Nobody will sign a contract for Cleaveland unless it benefits them monetarily or forced to. Good Free agents go to good teams..unless salary cap. Your arguement is better served by baseball. Weak cap rules make it easier for teams like the yankees to buy /waste talent.

Thats why you see the dodgers spend a billion dollars on some dude for shitty baseball.

[radditsu]

Triple post due to everybody in baseball being dominican and I cant relate to them. Baseball sucks yall.

[radditsu]

Quad post: TMO killing dragons? Ban them.

[baalzy]

This thread epitomizes why I don't want to play here anymore. 90% of you are huge faggots. The terminology like "Class X" getting thrown around with the explanations of why what you do is okay and what other people do isn't is just, really gay. I don't understand why rules need to keep changing anyway. If there's one set of rules, it doesn't really matter what they are because they apply to everybody. Do you see the Browns constantly lobbying Roger Gooddell to change the rules of the NFL to make it more "competitive?" Point being, if you're a shit guild that doesn't get raid targets just fire your Head Coach, draft Brady Quinn or something, STFU and try again next year.

http://vimeo.com/35003246

The NFL is Socialism.

[radditsu]

http://vimeo.com/35003246

The NFL is Socialism.

Isnt that what I just said in 4 posts?

[baalzy]

Isnt that what I just said in 4 posts?

Yes. But mine has moving pictures.

[radditsu]

Yes. But mine has moving pictures.

Yeah. ..I usually make my points that way.

[Burrito]

No where in striker's post did he ask for loot to be handed to R Guilds.

We don't want stuff appearing out of thin air. Kind of ironic that the people claiming that we do, had 86 accounts banned for, you know... making things appear out of thin air

Radditsu just trying to hide the lols in multiple posts.

[radditsu]

Playing the long game dawg.

[Heartbeats]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/transactions/free-agents

A quick browse through there would indicate that just as many players went from good teams to bad as vice versa in last years' free agency. See Jennings from GB to Min, Wallace from Pit to Mia, Kruger and Ellerbe from Bal to Cle and Mia, Abraham from Atl to Ari.

Aside from that, don't be obtuse. There is no salary-cappy front office aspect to EQ to compare to the NFL. I was obviously referring to on the field rules. Maybe I should have said something like the Broncos didn't complain that rules unfairly favor defense after they got spanked in the Super Bowl. The closest thing I've seen in football to what ya'll nerds do on P99 was Nick Saban whining about Oregon's hurry-up being "unsafe" and such nonsense when it obviously threatened his team's style of play in a potential NC matchup.

[radditsu]

They go to bad teams because they have cap space and want to pay them more. Also see the NBA newest collective bargaining agreement. NFL uses financial rules to make games fair. Also wrong again on field issues. See fines on players who play "dirty", changes in kickoffs, and nerfing of defense with ludacris pass interference rules. Football changes all the time to be more fair.

Stop being obtuse.

Also Ari > Atl (abraham sucks now) Pit and Mia were in the middle of the pack. Wallace is living in a better city. Baltimore has to pay for Flacco and Cleveland had cap space. GB wasnt going to pay for Jennings/ Min is a better city.

[Kaahbal]

If yall played red u could settle who heta what boss by pvping

[radditsu]

http://grantland.com/features/mlb-worst-contracts-alex-rodriguez-albert-pujols/


Articles like this could make your point. However I would continue to rebut that baseball sucks.

[radditsu]

If yall played red u could settle who heta what boss by pvping

Derpderpderpderpderp

[Hastley]

in this thread grown men are spending 22 pages debating policies on a 15 year old emulated elf simulator.

[Tiggles]

in this thread grown men are spending 22 pages debating policies on a 15 year old emulated elf simulator.

I thought it was about baseball...

[quido]

in this thread grown men are spending 22 pages debating policies on a 15 year old emulated elf simulator.

and you're sitting here reading about it, ya moran

[Hastley]

I thought it was about baseball...

perhaps. how is your pokemon card collection coming along?

[Kagatob]

Class C raid mobs need to be signed up for ahead of time and individual toons need to be flagged to be able to engage said encounters. All flagged characters are then restricted to the east commonlands zone only until the mob spawns, from there the guilds/characters need to run and mobilize for all mobs.

[rebeccablack]

getting welfare dragons not enough for these ppl I guess

[Lojik]

getting welfare dragons not enough for these ppl I guess

Must be Friday

[Gnomersy]

getting welfare dragons not enough for these ppl I guess

It's hard to compete against RL welfare recipients.

[patchday]

is this real life?

[Makwa]

It's hard to compete against RL welfare recipients.

Rofl

[Bones]

It's hard to compete against RL welfare recipients.
yeh

[radditsu]

I thought it was about baseball...

I tried to make it about baseball!

[radditsu]

Tbh if people are killing dragons and TMO isn't cheating, I have no idea what to RNF about anymore. I am a lost puppy.

[Raavak]

Greed. People want more than they are getting, even though they are getting more now than a month ago.

[Fael]

Velious = FFA.

Almost makes putting up with this cry baby bull shit the last few months remotely bearable.

The raid scene has been enjoyable, lots of competition, smaller tracking windows, repops etc. A lot of good tweaks (outside of the class desstinctions), but still the squeaky wheels keep squeaking.

Come velious, Pixel disparity will increase 10x , and Pixel lust and jealousy will match it.

Im sure it will be a golden era for the forums as well.

Dolic

[Duckwalk]

Greed. People want more than they are getting, even though they are getting more now than a month ago.

Lol, irony

[Kagatob]

Lol, irony

TMO members complaining about greed. Indeed irony.

[White Ranger Rides]

TMO members complaining about greed. Indeed irony.

Not really - there are TMOers that probably play 60-70 hours a week. If you're putting in the time there should be a discernable difference between your guild and another that bitched until the rules changed to give them everything they wanted but they kept right on bitching anyway.

[Tiggles]

Velious = FFA.

Almost makes putting up with this cry baby bull shit the last few months remotely bearable.

The raid scene has been enjoyable, lots of competition, smaller tracking windows, repops etc. A lot of good tweaks (outside of the class desstinctions), but still the squeaky wheels keep squeaking.

Come velious, Pixel disparity will increase 10x , and Pixel lust and jealousy will match it.

Im sure it will be a golden era for the forums as well.

Dolic


Can't wait to have like 3k more HP on my rogue then some shitty Class R warrior.

[Gaffin 7.0]

didnt read any of this thread

[Duckwalk]

Amount of effort imput is irrelevant sorry. Still greedy

[White Ranger Rides]

Amount of effort imput is irrelevant sorry. Still greedy

It's INPUT you fucking imbecile

[Kagatob]

Not really - there are TMOers that probably play 60-70 hours a week. If you're putting in the time there should be a discernable difference between your guild and another that bitched until the rules changed to give them everything they wanted but they kept right on bitching anyway.

Amount of effort imput is irrelevant sorry. Still greedy

Beat me to it.

[Nirgon]

imput

[White Ranger Rides]

Beat me to it.

All those Chinese cartoons are rubbing off on you, communist. In America, effort matters

[Sturgeon]

Anyone have cliff notes for this thread?

[Duckwalk]

It's INPUT you fucking imbecile

Go go iPhone keypad/autocorrect. Thanks for your insightful response though!!

[Duckwalk]

All those Chinese cartoons are rubbing off on you, communist. In America, effort matters

Yeah that's fine for the first 6 (?) months but you'd think the same group of people monopolizing end game content would relax a bit 2+ years later.

You were probably that kid at GameStop with a line of people built up behind them wait for their turn to try out a game.

But but but EFFORT!!!

Still greedy.

[Kagatob]

All those Chinese cartoons are rubbing off on you, communist. In America, effort matters

Typical American sentiment. Not only do you think China and Japan are the game fucking country but you also think that the internet and the world of Norrath are located on US soil.

Do everyone a favor and don't breed please.

[Kagatob]

Typical American sentiment. Not only do you think China and Japan are the same fucking country but you also think that the internet and the world of Norrath are located on US soil.

Do everyone a favor and don't breed please.

Fuck Swype.

[Bones]

Anyone have cliff notes for this thread?
neckbeards permamad about casuals killing dragons/gods and finishing their epics then crying about "effort" on the internet in their mother's basement provided to them by said casuals' tax dollars.

[White Ranger Rides]

Typical American sentiment. Not only do you think China and Japan are the game fucking country but you also think that the internet and the world of Norrath are located on US soil.

Do everyone a favor and don't breed please.
The fact that I don't know the country of origin of some other boy on the internet's jerk off cartoons doesn't mean I don't know the difference between China and Japan. It's just means my parents did a better job of adjusting me than yours.

[Tiggles]

Young Imput

[quido]

Kagatob is a dumb faggot

really no other way to describe it

[Funkutron5000]

Young Imput

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj-qBUWOYfE

[Kagatob]

The fact that I don't know the country of origin of some other boy on the internet's jerk off cartoons doesn't mean I don't know the difference between China and Japan. It's just means my parents did a better job of adjusting me than yours.
Proudly stating your ignorance towards subjects that are basic common knowledge does not help your stance.
Kagatob is a dumb faggot

really no other way to describe it

My bad. I had forgotten in any thread titled "TMO", one's authority level therein is inversely proportional to the amount of personal contact they have had with other members of their species.
Since outside of servicing Sirken and whoever else you've done favors for to openly get away with the shit you get away here, you have had none. I'll step back and yield to your infinite authority here.

I'll make sure to remind the lady friend that I'm such a faggot tonight during dinner. ;)

Happy Valentine's day, your dragons await.

[White Ranger Rides]

I'll make sure to remind the lady friend that I'm such a faggot tonight during dinner. ;)

http://i.imgur.com/lYT80ir.jpg

[hatelore]

http://i.imgur.com/lYT80ir.jpg

Lawl

[Kagatob]

Dat forehead. :eek:

[Kagatob]

http://randomc.net/image/Hyakka%20Ryouran%20Samurai%20Girls/Hyakka%20Ryouran%20Samurai%20Girls%20-%2004%20-%20Large%2003.jpg

[justin2090]

neckbeards permamad about casuals killing dragons/gods and finishing their epics then crying about "effort" on the internet in their mother's basement provided to them by said casuals' tax dollars.

lol

[Psionide]

neckbeards permamad about casuals killing dragons/gods and finishing their epics then crying about "effort" on the internet in their mother's basement provided to them by said casuals' tax dollars.

[Kagatob]

neckbeards permamad about casuals killing dragons/gods and finishing their epics then crying about "effort" on the internet in their mother's basement provided to them by said casuals' tax dollars.

[Executiveutven]

I rmt