so... human XP bonus?

[jyaku]

we have no regen, no night vision, no stun resist, no speical attack. nothing. why do the halflings get a bonus when we don't. there was a human bonus on the live servers.

[Volga]

Can you find any archived evidence that humans had an exp bonus?

[MiRo2]

There wasn't an XP bonus for humans, there was supposed to be, but it was coded to halfling by accident. So humans not having an XP is classic.

[jyaku]

then i make the arguemnt that we SHOULD have one, i mean we have nothing special other than being the only race ATM that can be monk

[jyaku]

and don't give me the "but it's not classic". there is alot to this server that is'nt classic so that's not going to effect this argument

[Starklen]

and don't give me the "but it's not classic". there is alot to this server that is'nt classic so that's not going to effect this argument

But it's not classic.

[Humwawa]

But "Classic," it is not.

[MiRo2]

then i make the arguemnt that we SHOULD have one, i mean we have nothing special other than being the only race ATM that can be monk

Then I make the argument that all humans should have a %20 penetalty since all they are good for is being monks appearently.

You see what I did there :rolleyes:

[Abraham1]

I agree completely, humans were supposed to get the bonus so lets fix that on this server and give it to them. "Classic" or not, it makes sense and would benefit the balance of the game. Maybe we should hold a vote on it or something?

[jyaku]

monks already have a 20% penalty

[Tseng]

Tbh we should have a -40% penalty for bein' so f'in awesome

[eqdruid76]

As much of a "Classic Purist" as I am, I don't see a lot of harm in putting right what VI got wrong. Isn't that what Project 1999 is all about? Quantum Leaping back in time and not repeating the same mistakes that were made that spoiled the game? Ziggy says there's a 0% chance that giving humans their intended xp bonus would destroy the server.

[jyaku]

As much of a "Classic Purist" as I am, I don't see a lot of harm in putting right what VI got wrong. Isn't that what Project 1999 is all about? Quantum Leaping back in time and not repeating the same mistakes that were made that spoiled the game? Ziggy says there's a 0% chance that giving humans their intended xp bonus would destroy the server.

nice quantum leap reference, you forgot the necessary "oh boy" in there.

but am i saying that halflings should lose their bonus, no. i don't know if they have night vision or anything like that but being short and full of pie they should have a bonus (unless they have nightvision). very good argument about the "fixing what VI got wrong".

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v2680/138/61/1557129695/n1557129695_1273654_904070.jpg

[Humwawa]

Thank god for World of Warcraft making MMO players believe they're entitled to anything they want, anytime, all at once.

[guineapig]

If this guy isn't a troll then I don't know what kind of server he thinks he's playing on.

I would like enchanters to have a 10k nuke that they can use once every 15 minutes because our non-pet DPS is so low compared to every other caster class. :rolleyes: Also, enchanters should have their 10% exp penalty removed... cause I said so. :cool:

[Hogwash]

View Post Yesterday, 09:18 PM
Remove user from ignore listeqdruid76
This message is hidden because eqdruid76 is on your ignore list.

three cheers for ignore.

[Troy]

Thank god for World of Warcraft making MMO players believe they're entitled to anything they want, anytime, all at once.

Thinking that a mistake by the original developers ought be corrected == being entitled to ridiculous stuff?

Thank god for idiots like "Humwawa" and "guineapig" here, who would we laugh at without them?

[Phallax]

I agree it should be fixed, as stated before. The devs here correct "bugs" that Sony never got around to, this is a bug that Sony never got around to.

[Jeice]

in the time you have been complaining about your tiny xp loss, you could have had 2 more levels.

[Aarone]

in the time you have been complaining about your tiny xp loss, you could have had 2 more levels.

This. Go level a Troll SK, and then you'll have something to bitch about! ;)

[jyaku]

If this guy isn't a troll then I don't know what kind of server he thinks he's playing on.

did i come on here and say "OMG humens ned XP boneis WTF, imma tell evrybode i sees and tell em to leave servar if wez dont getz it"

no, i asked for it and gave a reason as to why i think it should be implemented

[Rogean]

How did they manage to get that mixed up. Human race ID is 1, Halflings 11.. Even using a hardcoded array you can't accidentally offset by 10. >_>

[jyaku]

someone hit 1 twice? i don't know but i know i'v seen older EQ books stating that humans get an XP bonus, i'll try to find one and scan it.

[Aarone]

How did they manage to get that mixed up. Human race ID is 1, Halflings 11.. Even using a hardcoded array you can't accidentally offset by 10. >_>

Never underestimate the power of human error, grasshopper!

[Humwawa]

Thinking that a mistake by the original developers ought be corrected == being entitled to ridiculous stuff?

Thank god for idiots like "Humwawa" and "guineapig" here, who would we laugh at without them?

Translation -

"I want my 5% exp! I want! I want I want I want it now! Now now now now now now now!" /footstomp

It's five percent. Five. Whooooooo caaaaaaares.

[yaaaflow]

Humans are already the best race and you want a bonus? cmon pal

[guineapig]

Thinking that a mistake by the original developers ought be corrected == being entitled to ridiculous stuff?

Thank god for idiots like "Humwawa" and "guineapig" here, who would we laugh at without them?

Comments like this just cause people to take you less seriously. When best reply you can come up with is a childish insult that pretty much tells everyone what you're about.

The goal of the server is to replicate classic as much as they can.

On the few occasions that things were changed prematurely when compared to the classic time-line, it was due to an exploit or something similar.

Considering that you are requesting a change that neither Verant or SoE ever changed (until all race based exp was changed years after launch), it will never see the light of day here.

Now if your thread was about doing away with all race based and class based exp penalties then maybe you would find more support as, at least that request would somehow reflect on how things were done on live.

What you are asking for is simply custom content.

[Troy]

blah blah blah

I play an erudite and don't really care one way or the other. I was just defending the OP from undeserved flames.

I'll repeat once more since you didn't read the argument and skipped right to the part where I called you an idiot:

Supposedly the EQ devs intended for XP to be X, but it ended up Y. Asking for P99 to set XP to X is not the same as asking for flying unicorn mounts and instant cast 32k dmg nukes. End of story.

[Humwawa]

If it's about being fair, then withdraw the 5% from halflings in favor of humans.

That can't be done, obviously.

So let's just give the humans 5% and let the halflings keep it too!

Now it's no longer "bug correction" - it's entitlement.

[guineapig]

Supposedly the EQ devs intended for XP to be X, but it ended up Y. Asking for P99 to set XP to X is not the same as asking for flying unicorn mounts and instant cast 32k dmg nukes. End of story.


The EQ devs intended certain quests / encounters to be difficult but they turned out to be easy.

The EQ devs intended certain quests to work but for some reason were never implemented in the game.

The point is, intent doesn't matter if it NEVER materialized on live. Project 1999 is not here to try and guess what the vision was, it's here to mimic the experience we actually had.

End of story.

[jyaku]

Project 1999 is not here to try and guess what the vision was, it's here to mimic the experience we actually had.

if that were true then there would be no monk xp penalty, i never remember having one on the live servers. there are many other things that are not "mimicing the experience we actually had" but i'm not going to complain about stuff the dev's already have decided to include.

[Shrubwise]

if that were true then there would be no monk xp penalty, i never remember having one on the live servers.

i'm not going to complain about stuff the dev's already have decided to include.

[jyaku]

again, not a complaint. pointing something out

[Troy]

The EQ devs intended certain quests / encounters to be difficult but they turned out to be easy.

The EQ devs intended certain quests to work but for some reason were never implemented in the game.

The point is, intent doesn't matter if it NEVER materialized on live. Project 1999 is not here to try and guess what the vision was, it's here to mimic the experience we actually had.

End of story.

That doesn't make your comparison to 15k nukes any less asinine.

[Jeice]

How about we keep things the way they have been for 10 years and not whine.

[MiRo2]

if that were true then there would be no monk xp penalty, i never remember having one on the live servers.

If this is actually true, then provide evidence, and you might be able to get it changed. Ranting about it isn't going to get you anywhere.

[Droxx]

I only want classic when it benefits me, guys!

[jyaku]

ok i found that monk DID have an XP penalty. now while i don't fully understand WHY they do i do admit i was wrong about the monk.

[eqdruid76]

View Post Yesterday, 09:18 PM
Remove user from ignore listeqdruid76
This message is hidden because eqdruid76 is on your ignore list.

three cheers for ignore.

Still got under his skin somehow, though. That amazes even me.

[Lucrio40]

I was originally going to come in and point out how couple things have been put into the game that were not in classic, but the dev's wanted it that way. Mob run speed, pet xp, and a couple other I can't think of right off the top of my head.

However, the Dev's have fixed boats, something EQlive dev's couldn't fix in what? 4 years? and got old skeleton and wolf models to work on the modern clients. Those two things alone have makes any decision the dev's make about the direction of the game easy to swallow regardless if it hurts the player base or not.

Bravo Dev's, Bravo. I could not ask for more from P1999.

[Fireapple]

Not choosing one side or another, but i do have fond memories of making a human on live under the assumption that one day he would get his 5% bonus...:(

[guineapig]

That doesn't make your comparison to 15k nukes any less asinine.

I was making a point by comparison...

Humans never received an exp bonus in Classic - Velious.
Enchanters never received a 15k nuke in classic - Velious.

Explain how this is asinine.

[guineapig]

To reiterate:

If it didn't happen on live, don't bother asking the devs for it on this server.

[Troy]

I was making a point by comparison...

Humans never received an exp bonus in Classic - Velious.
Enchanters never received a 15k nuke in classic - Velious.

Explain how this is asinine.

Um, one is a game breaking change that only an idiot would ever think of, the other is a tiny change which most people would never even notice and which was supposedly intended by the original developers?

Are you so thick that you can't understand that?

[Humwawa]

a tiny change which most people would never even notice

Highly worth the effort.

[Eccentricaa]

and don't give me the "but it's not classic". there is alot to this server that is'nt classic so that's not going to effect this argument

The 'its not classic' excuse has been an overused response to many complaints.. But reality is that most of the game is not true classic.

Just look at charm, and tell me that they have given us the classic experience.

They chose to focus on THEIR classic experience, making it the way they remembered or wanted it to be.

We are in THEIR world now.. The true classic EQ does not exist. Period.

I, for one, am still having fun in their world, and appreciate the hard work the devs did put into it. Even if I do have to listen to my husband complain about chanters being reduced to buff bishes.

[Humwawa]

It's not ours to pick and choose what we want out of their recreation of EverQuest 1999.

In fact, it's not for you to change anything at all. You aren't entitled to fucking anything. You can either enjoy the hard work put into a concept, or you can complain pointlessly about minute details.

The absolute best way to enjoy the server is to whine for more, and point out every mistake you see. Real fucking productive.

[jyaku]

i was not complaining at all during this whole post, i was pointing out what i thought should be done and giving a valid argument about it. pointing out mistakes is something that SHOULD be done as it helps devs find the bugs of the server and try to fix them as best they can. i never said i'm entitled to the human XP bonus i asked if it could be implemented. the only one i hear wining is the guy with "wa wa" in his name.

[guineapig]

Um, one is a game breaking change that only an idiot would ever think of, the other is a tiny change which most people would never even notice and which was supposedly intended by the original developers?

Are you so thick that you can't understand that?

You are very fond of name calling.
(I almost said that you are good at it... but that would be a fallacy.)
It proves nothing.

You are not very good at understanding that the request in the OP is making a player request for custom content.

I could have used anything for an example,
like dual wielding wizards
or a minus 5% penalty to ogres.
It wouldn't make my point any less valid.

[Humwawa]

i asked if it could be implemented.

Can it?

Certainly.

You have your answer.

[Humwawa]

It's not ours to pick and choose what we want out of their recreation of EverQuest 1999.

In fact, it's not for you to change anything at all. You aren't entitled to fucking anything. You can either enjoy the hard work put into a concept, or you can complain pointlessly about minute details.

The absolute best way to enjoy the server is to whine for more, and point out every mistake you see. Real fucking productive.

This post was a response to Eccenticaa, by the way.

That doesn't change that the sum of your argument is, "It wasn't Classic, but it would sure benefit me if it could be!"

Could it be implemented? Of course it can. Obviously, it can.

It wasn't that way before, and there's absolutely no reason for it to be, now. To argue that it should be so creates the equal argument that halflings should NOT have it, and if you can't see where it goes from there.........

[MiRo2]

i was not complaining at all during this whole post, i was pointing out what i thought should be done and giving a valid argument about it. pointing out mistakes is something that SHOULD be done as it helps devs find the bugs of the server and try to fix them as best they can. i never said i'm entitled to the human XP bonus i asked if it could be implemented. the only one i hear wining is the guy with "wa wa" in his name.

Out of curiosity you do know that during this whole post it has been in Rants and Flames not in Bugs?

If you really were trying to help(s) devs find the bugs of the server and try to fix them as best they can you really should have posted it there and not here. My impression is that you posted it here because you do feel entitled to the human Xp bonus and not the former, and knew you would be shot down immediately.

[mmiles8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikilawyering

The parallels here could be a lesson to all of the folks who like to thrash about, arguing 'how classic is classic' to gain a personal advantage without any real mind to the classic experience, or acknowledge that the behind the scenes mechanics don't perceptibly change the classic experience.

Let's try swapping out a couple paragraph from that link:

In other words a "classiclawyer" is an image drawn from a poor lawyer, and the term may also be used in other cases, e.g., when a person superficially judges other developers and their actions by jumping at conclusions and slapping labels while brandishing P1999 policies as a tool for defeating developers rather than resolving a conflict or finding a mutually agreeable solution.

P1999 policies and procedures should be interpreted in a commonsensical way to achieve the purpose of the policy, or help dispute resolution. Typically, classiclawyering raises procedural or evidentiary points in a manner analogous to that used in formal legal proceedings, often using ill-founded legal reasoning. Occasionally classiclawyering may raise legitimate questions, including fairness, but often it serves to evade an issue or obstruct the crafting of a workable solution.

All edits are in blue. Text, Basically wiki replaced with classic and editors replaced with developers. There's a lesson here folks.

[Humwawa]

Question: When is it Time to [Change the Game For my Benefit?]Buy Your Child a Pony?
Parents know that children go through phases. Toys and games that were all consuming last week are now under the bed collecting dust. Many little girls seem to go through a[n entitlement phase] horse crazy phase. How can you tell when it is time to [give in] buy that first pony?
Answer: Before you consider [giving in]buying a pony you child should be [playing the game] taking riding lessons. Help your child learn all they can about [just playing the game]keeping a pony. Your child will need to know how to [play the game]lead, groom, saddle and bridle, muck out stalls and keep a pony healthy. [Leveling] Lessons and clubs like Pony Club are the best places to learn this.

You know your child best. Are they eager to get out the door and ready with helmet and boots, or do you have to remind them that it's time to leave and be properly dressed for their lesson? Observe your child during lessons. Are they attentive and enthusiastic, or does their attention wander? Do they brush the instructor off and answer every instruction with 'I know', or do they try to apply what they are being told?

Do they [complain out of entitlement] get off the pony and hand it to the instructor, or are they excited about [the game] unsaddling the pony and putting it in its stall. Are they enthusiastic about being invited to equipment and stall cleaning sessions, or do they avoid any extra work?

If your child shows enthusiasm for all aspects of [simply playing the game]riding and pony care after several months of lessons it might be time [that they notice the entire argument was unimportant to begin with] for their own pony.

Back to Buying Your Child's First Pony FAQ Index

[Eternal-Elf]

Just wanted to say I love how this server has been created to give us all a great classic feel to a game we all used to love.....

That being said I also feel that just because it has become "classic" for a Toyota Corolla to have the accelerator stick and burl uncontrolably down the road doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

If there IS something that could make the game more enjoyable for players that was SUPPOSED to be in the game on classic but verant just sucked I don't see it being a problem adding it in........5% exp for human? Don't really see it being some HUGE difference but if it was meant to be there then why not?

Why call him a "WoW n00b" for asking?

Anyways, you can flame me or whatever you feel like doing I'm just saying the devs here have a great opportunity to take a great game and make it better which they have already done in several ways. Asking for a few things that might just rightly be deserved in the game doesn't sound so bad.....to me at least.

[Humwawa]

One more time.

5% exp meant for humans is instead given to halflings on release.

If you're "fixing" the error, you remove the 5% from halflings in favor of humans. To not do so is merely asking for 5% exp because you want it.

To remove the 5% exp from existing halflings is no more fair than humans never getting it in the first place. People came to Project1999 and created halflings knowing that 10 years ago they had an exp bonus.

Since SoE never changed the bug in Live until beyond Velious, the safest answer is to simply leave this alone.

TLDR?

1) Give humans, take from halfers = unfair to current players.
2) Give humans and halflings = custom content
3) Leave as is = safest answer
4) Sloth love Chunk

[Eternal-Elf]

Doesn't make much sense to me.......
The devs have taken this and made it into something of their own. Therefore I would call this whole server custom content BASED on 1999 release rules.

Sorry but if you wanna be "classic" i think nerfs were something of a common thing. So taking from Halfling when they don't rightly deserve it would not be "unfair" it would be a nerf.

Honestly, I drank too much coffee and am bored, and could care less because I play neither of these races, but if Human is supposed to have an exp bonus.....there is no harm is fixing the problem. If Halfling is NOT supposed to have it.....I see no harm in taking it away.

I mean really......if they GAVE enchanter that 15k nuke....by mistake.....would it be unfair to take it away? Hell no bahaha

[Humwawa]

Sorry but if you wanna be "classic" i think nerfs were something of a common thing. So taking from Halfling when they don't rightly deserve it would not be "unfair" it would be a nerf.

If you want to be "classic," humans don't get a 5% exp bonus at all.

The server's different from Live. We know what's coming. We understand how the game works, for the most part. The server is not stuck in 1999, but that's the idea behind it, NOT to make all your little dreams and wishes of 10 years ago come true. I'm sorry. It's not. It can't ever be a perfect mirror of the past, but when you toy with little things here and there about "Old EQ," it eventually stops being "Old EQ" and becomes a conflict over which dream of the game is more relevant. In order to avoid that, it's best to leave the game as is.

You know, I spent a month on a broken quest in Neriak. I didn't learn it was broken until three years later. I demand the developers go back and implement a quest for me, because that is what was intended but never completed.

Just give up already.

[Eternal-Elf]

Your mis-understanding for anything that even comes close to shining a light on what im trying to say is getting annoying.
I am not saying change things to make it a better dream everquest.

However, if the quest you wasted a month on was able to be fixed on P99 and work properly....would that not be something you'd want?

Oh wait! I have an idea lets put a whole section on the forum of things that were fucked up, stupid, and broken about the original EverQuest and make sure the Devs' here implement it into the game. If they aren't gunna fix Human exp then it's not fair to fix ANYTHING is what you're saying.

Pathing problems, falling under the world, AND not to mention from what I've noticed the devs are very VERY responsive to your questions and requests on this server.....to make it more CLASSIC we gotta go a un-yeilding petition system that never grants you anything you ask for.

Get real man. This is the chance to make something 11 years ago classic.......
Classic doesn't mean the same.
GM made a new CAMARO look classic.....but damn man they gave it a 6 disc and power windows too. Just go with the flow and they can fix the things that ended up driving people away to begin with.

[Humwawa]

Ohhh, car references.

Now that you've pried the turtle wax out from under your nails and put those fingers to the keys, let's discuss your ideas on pathing, bugged quests, and the like.

You're certainly right. Pathing is not at all the way it was, on Live servers. Some mobs don't move along the same routes. Some are stationary when on Live they did move. Changing all these things to fit Classic is well within the devs' vision of how the server should work, according to posts they've made on the subject. The server's purpose is to emulate Classic EverQuest, not necessarily to please the players, but to please the devs. Look that up! If you can't, I'll find it.. just for you.

Lastly... that quest I mentioned? I gotta say no thanks to a version of the quest developed off the cuff. The Scroll of G`han can rot in Felwithe.

If you want to make up a server that does all sorta magical stuff, go do just that. It's called Project 1999 for a reason.

[Eternal-Elf]

Bro, I mentioned a million times now I don't give a flying fuck if they give human a 500% negative exp penalty. I don't play one.
Nor do I want magical things added just so I can wet my fingers to it.

I am just saying it's ignorant to see a problem with something and just say "oh well it was fucked up then, lets leave it fucked up"

And you're correct if they don't wanna fix it. lol I don't care. I was only giving my opinion....and seeing as how I can't write code that opinion stops at these forums doesn't it ?

Don't get all "before I've had my coffee" on me and shit.

[Humwawa]

I'll say it... again.

When you start changing little things about how the game was, sooner or later it stops being the game it was and changes into something else.

Well gee, it sure is hard for troll SKs to get to 50. Yup, it sure is. It's probably even a little unfair. Let's change that.

A prevailing argument in this thread is, "Five percent is such a tiny amount, nobody'd even notice if we changed it!" Then why does it matter at all? And what's next, after that? The more crap the devs hand players, the more the players will want. That's how MMO players are. That's how people are.

There was a loooooot of broken shit in this game, and tlot of that broken shit contributes to its charm. There's a lot of race imbalance, and class imbalance too. The last thing I want to hear is, "D00d paladin dps is lo compaered 2 SKs plz fix lol" horseshit. So fuck humans, fuck the lucky little midgets, and just try not to make a mess.

[Humwawa]

However, if the quest you wasted a month on was able to be fixed on P99 and work properly....would that not be something you'd want?


Just a little clarification on this one.

They never so much as implemented a quest. They left the opening dialogue and never finished it. Sony removed the NPC's response to "Who is Innoruuk?" three years later due to complaints.

The exact same shit happened in ChardokB, years later. More busted quests with no final answer. They're still there, moldering with the enormous undead chokidai.

Sony was so half-assed, but that's EQ for ya.. the many hours I spent trying to figure out unsolvable quests were good times.

[Eternal-Elf]

lol think I'll have to agree this time lol. just fuck em all =)

I was just argueing on the side of decency.....but maybe you're right Classic EQ wasn't decent at all so I give up lol