Re: Raid Situation

[Fael]

And how is that better than the 3-4 repop plan?

Dolic

[Aaron]

I never played on a server that had 3 years of Kunark.

[Fael]

Luclin server had a rotation on vs and trakanon and the planes. Everything else was FFA (killed by legacy of sorrow). My guild was 3rd one onto the rotation, we got maybe 8 trak teeth before velious spawned and it became a moot point.

Dolic

[Uteunayr]

I never played on a server with an end game rotation. I was on E`ci and Tunare.

Caveat, there was an Asian & American rotation on Trakanon (HoO or Vane / Reconstructed), but that was more because they played 12 hours apart more than any formal agreement.

That's fine, but again, unless you played on every server, and can speak to the endgame handling of content of every server in classic EverQuest, you're speaking in regard to your servers, and those alone. Individual perception is a huge fault, and it is why science tends to go for more rigor. I will take at your word that your two servers did not have a rotation, other than the Trak arrangement that you made. But there are many others who also had a rotation on their servers, which are likely servers different from yours.

Both of these existed in classic simultaneously, but on different servers. The beauty of the staff proposal is that it allows for both to exist simultaneously on the same server. Let hardcore players play in their hardcore setting, and let casuals play in their casual setting. If both can relive their classic experience, that's a beautiful and elegant solution.

[Autotune]

And how is that better than the 3-4 repop plan?

Dolic

Am I the only person that read what sirken posted fully? Shit clearly said at the bottom that guilds still needed to come up with a raiding plan for all spawns outside of the repops.

[Seltius]

Rogean please tell us what you envision your server being. I understand you're working and busy so when you have a chance.

This telling us to talk and fix it isn't and will not work. You have too many people who all have a different idea of what they want. You were contacted by a lot of people in PMs it sounds like but how many is a lot when you have over 1k population all subject to the decisions made. I know not all are raiding now but some may in the future want to and some may just want to finish their epics one day. I understand the staff is volunteer but this is like a ship without a captain or crew. It isn't going to go anywhere without leadership.

The longer this takes to resolve the more people you may lose and the better chance of someone looking for something else to play to hang with friends. It also looks bad publicly to people who may have considered playing this game to see this.

[Autotune]

The longer this takes to resolve the more people you may lose and the better chance of someone looking for something else to play to hang with friends. It also looks bad publicly to people who may have considered playing this game to see this.

lmao, scare tactics always work... especially on Rogean.

[Uteunayr]

Rogean please tell us what you envision your server being. I understand you're working and busy so when you have a chance.

This telling us to talk and fix it isn't and will not work. You have too many people who all have a different idea of what they want. You were contacted by a lot of people in PMs it sounds like but how many is a lot when you have over 1k population all subject to the decisions made. I know not all are raiding now but some may in the future want to and some may just want to finish their epics one day. I understand the staff is volunteer but this is like a ship without a captain or crew. It isn't going to go anywhere without leadership.

The longer this takes to resolve the more people you may lose and the better chance of someone looking for something else to play to hang with friends. It also looks bad publicly to people who may have considered playing this game to see this.

A policy dictated to people is never as easily accepted as a policy that the people accept unto themselves. That's likely the reason for sitting back and letting us hash this out. Eventually, someone will give, a compromise will be made, and a set of raid plans will be created. I can only hope that it is the Staff Proposal, so that each side can play their role all month long, rather than only on repops.

[Fael]

Am I the only person that read what sirken posted fully? Shit clearly said at the bottom that guilds still needed to come up with a raiding plan for all spawns outside of the repops.

Ahh. So your proposal is in in conjunction to the repop plan ? Not all of us are expert forum questers. Got to lead us to the water.

Dolic

[Erati]

i think most proposals included some form of "sim patch day" repops

basically with Rogeans or Stealins plan the repops would serve to speed up the cycles as the repopped mob would still follow the tier it was suppose to belong to as if it had spawned normally

Repops will b a part of the solution no matter what plan is decided on

[Autotune]

Ahh. So your proposal is in in conjunction to the repop plan ? Not all of us are expert forum questers. Got to lead us to the water.

Dolic

I had a proposal and I pm'd it to several people (including Rogean and Sirken) and from what I've seen/heard Rogean took a section of it and expanded it (something about a 1/1/1 raiding proposal). I don't know how far it's gone or will go and it really doesn't matter to me.

However, I can clearly see that what Sirken posted wasn't the solution to end the raid suspension. The suspension happened and people were told to make a new raiding proposal and to agree to it and that "we" shouldn't expect repops, variance reduced, game mechanics changed, etc in any of the plans.

You guys got ahead of yourselves and thought in the end nothing had to change and you'd get free repops.

Now, I have no clue why Sirken posted the raid suspension was going to be lifted, but it was clear in his Repop post that guilds needed to still work out the normal raiding details (it was stated at the bottom).

[knix]

Why are we still talking about this shit? It's all been covered 1000 times from 100 different angles. T1 guilds want their efforts to be rewarded and their raid scene not to be shit on with rotations. T2 guilds want to see and experience content without having to compete for it, park characters, wake up at strange hours, or race to mobs. BDA wants as many free mobs as they can get without having to do anything besides lawyer on the forums, and they will milk this situation until they get it. GMs want their petition queue to be lower.

Okay, we've established all these things. There should be no more discuss ion about playstyle, or what this server was meant for, or how players should choose to play the game.

How many mobs does BDA need before they agree to a plan?

How many mobs should T1 be forced to give up?

Schedule another meeting and answer these two questions. All that matters is negotiations, so stop fucking wasting your time debating anything else. Don't let Chest waste 15 minutes talking about how toxic the raid scene is and how the only thing that's fair is 50/50. Don't let anyone from T1 talk about the spirit of competition. This shit doesn't matter because neither side will ever agree. Just figure out what each side can live with and let us move on.

And why hasn't a new meeting been scheduled yet? Fuck, we all know from the time you plan one it's going to take everyone like 2-3 days to make sure they can make it. Stop delaying this shit.

I thought Srken and Deubael's plan for the repops gave the casual guilds the same number of dragons if not more if you divided the current non repop situation we have been raiding under. And with the potential of 2 repops a month as ffa was icing on the cake for all. Plus gave us all things to raid throughout the month. As well as made an environment where it was clear what dragon belonged to which Tier, making it easier for the VOLUNTEER CSR staff to do what the are donatiing their time to do.

[Autotune]

i think most proposals included some form of "sim patch day" repops

basically with Rogeans or Stealins plan the repops would serve to speed up the cycles as the repopped mob would still follow the tier it was suppose to belong to as if it had spawned normally

Repops will b a part of the solution no matter what plan is decided on

In my proposal, I suggest that staff dictate how they want to handle them (repops)and that the rules the people made up should come 2nd to how the GMs wanted to handle them.

Why?

Because it's the staff that has to put it in place and the staff has less to gain by how they are divided to the server.

Rogean's 1/1/1 proposal (or my proposal, wtf ever) would work with repops or in conjunction with sirken's repop rules (two different rule sets).

[Joyelle]

making it easier for the VOLUNTEER CSR staff to do what the are donatiing their time to do.

what's that? deriding the casual playstyle in a twitch stream?

[chickmagnet]

I've got a crazy idea that might just work....how about speed game up a bit and start putting items on other boss mobs. Remember when the fear golems dropped AoNs, change their respawn timer of course, but people would have plenty of chances for epics and hardcore guilds could still compete for dragons. CSR could use all this new found argument time to do something a bit more important...like working on that velious expansion....maybe the old devs ran into this problem and that was their solution rather than speeding up spawns or forcing rotations :)

[Alarti0001]

I can only hope that it is the Staff Proposal, so that each side can play their role all month long, rather than only on repops.

It wont be

[Droog007]

the only 2 big zones other than vp that training may have occurred is fear and hate, and thats simply part of the pull, you have these other guilds trying to slip by while they have a train in progress to make a break for mob then they run into that said train

These other guilds trying to slip by... that is some funny shit.

My two most memorable interactions with TMO:

Full Circle breaking hate from port-up spot when Inny spawns. TMO arrives and immediately brings down the entire zone on top of everyone. After several attempts to tag Inny out of the chaos, something like 75% of the players across all attendant guilds are dead (some more than once), but TMO gets dem pixels. edit: I just remembered - we actually got awarded FTE from that kill. Unfortunately, nothing good dropped and our evening was still shat upon.

Azure Guard breaking Fear when Draco spawns. TMO zones in en masse and sets up 30 feet away from us on west wall. Enormous train happens. TMO kills Draco, scoops loot, and then something like 90% of players across both guilds are killed to the collapsing kite. But goddammit, TMO got dat Draco loot ahead of them do-nothing, no-effort, casual scum.

Gorgeous execution - really top-notch. You totally deserved that loot more. I feel bad that we tried to slip past you and get something we didn't work for.

[Xadion]

I've got a crazy idea that might just work....how about speed game up a bit and start putting items on other boss mobs. Remember when the fear golems dropped AoNs, change their respawn timer of course, but people would have plenty of chances for epics and hardcore guilds could still compete for dragons. CSR could use all this new found argument time to do something a bit more important...like working on that velious expansion....maybe the old devs ran into this problem and that was their solution rather than speeding up spawns or forcing rotations :)

That would be what velious and the epic mobs change would do for the raid scene- I honestly feel once velious is out and the epic change hate 2 ct 2 are relesed that it will solve the issues at hand-- it is the time until then that we must find a solution of some sorts.

[Bruman]

All raid targets outside VP and SKY should go

T1/T2/FFA (Which was what I proposed for Inny/VT/Trak/VS, just applied to everything by rogean now I hear)

That solves all problems.

No matter how you look at it, the hardcores are going to have to skip targets, might as well do it as easily as possible.

Also, I laugh at the people who will complain that they will have to "Keep up with whose turn it is" when you silly fucks keep up with every kill time regardless of who kills what anyhow.

It makes me feel weird when I agree with you.

And how is that better than the 3-4 repop plan?

Dolic

There's been lots of talk that, regardless of what happens, part of the solution (although not necessarily immediately) will include more often full server repops and reduced variance.

[Autotune]

My two most memorable interactions with TMO:

Full Circle breaking hate from port-up spot when Inny spawns. TMO arrives and immediately brings down the entire zone on top of everyone. After several attempts to tag Inny out of the chaos, something like 75% of the players across all attendant guilds are dead (some more than once), but TMO gets dem pixels.

Azure Guard breaking Fear when Draco spawns. TMO zones in en masse and sets up 30 feet away from us on west wall. Enormous train happens. TMO kills Draco, scoops loot, and then something like 90% of players across both guilds are killed to the collapsing kite. But goddammit, TMO got dat Draco loot ahead of them do-nothing, no-effort, casual scum.

Sounds about right. Pretty much how every Inny / draco spawn I've done went, except as a necro I'd just FD and /q or levant and then FD.

[Seltius]

lmao, scare tactics always work... especially on Rogean.

It wasn't meant like that. Well at least it wasn't I really hope it didn't come across like that. I was trying to be polite and simply ask him what he wanted from his server.

[Babayaaga]

He wants the players to cooperate to find some measure of an agreement to share content.

It's not going to please everyone, and we're all going to have to make concessions.

The real crux is that people still enjoy the adrenaline rush of the race, but definitions of how that race is played out differs from person to person from an ethical point of view. There is enough capability for many to race, but many have been abstaining because they don't share the same standard of ethics.

This "agreement" is more about establishing a code of ethics, but instead it has become sidetracked into min-maxing the math broken down into tiers of content by tiers of guilds.

When we get back to focusing on the ethics, and think less about how content is distributed, I suspect we'll be closer to an "agreement" that is signed off by Rogean because at the end of the day, we're still talking about more or less the same amount of content with just as many mouths to feed (with more mouths entering the race every day). Conflicts of ethics were straining the petition pool. Solve this problem, and much of that issue disappears.

[August]

There are 11 mobs outside of VP. 2 of them are level 52-restricted.

They pop on average 4 times a month.

That's 44 raid mobs per month. There are at least 6 tier 2 guilds, and 3 tier 1 guilds - that's being pretty stingy

That's 9 guilds that want to compete for 44 mobs a month. That's approximately 5 mobs per guild.

Do you think it's fair to you that you only get 5 mobs a month for your guild?

Oh, you don't? Well that's fine, but keep in mind that if you take another mob, then someone else only gets 4 mobs a month. How many mobs do you think you deserve? Is it 10 mobs a month? Well then another guild gets 0 mobs a month. Do 4 guilds want 10 mobs a month? Gratz 4 mobs total for the rest of the 5 guilds.

This is an unsolvable problem on an EMU server that's been stale for too long. My numbers may not be accurate (i don't raid here) but that's the actual reality of the situation. A LOT of people can kill the mobs. A LOT of people want mobs. There are a static number of mobs per month.

No one guild can be dominant without severely cutting off access to those mobs to the rest.
No coalition of guilds can exist without everyone getting a very very thin slice of pie.

The solution is more mobs, or people being content with less.

Staff / Development are going to have to solve this problem with a coded solution. We are all arguing with each other to no great effect because the numbers behind all these solutions just don't add up.

You can put tiers on stuff, you can put restrictions on who and what can engage and in what time period, but the end result is straight up numbers.

44 Mobs a month

[SeruScars]

He wants the players to cooperate to find some measure of an agreement to share content.

Why would anyone want to cooperate with hypocritical asshats like Chest?

[Lanuven]

making it easier for the VOLUNTEER CSR staff to do what the are donatiing their time to do.


what's that? deriding the casual playstyle in a twitch stream?

Not to mention trolling of guilds, players, and flat out being ignorant of the servers history and what has gone on in the past.

Knix find those streams enjoyable though as she is 24/7 in them on her knees.

[Lanuven]

Why would anyone want to cooperate with hypocritical asshats like Chest?

Because its better than dealing with complete assholes with no regard for anyone but themselves, and will do anything in their power and beyond the rules to keep them from that. You know who..

[Atmas]

Because its better than dealing with complete assholes with no regard for anyone but themselves, and will do anything in their power and beyond the rules to keep them from that. You know who..

Reading you loud and clear

[SeruScars]

Because its better than dealing with complete assholes with no regard for anyone but themselves, and will do anything in their power and beyond the rules to keep them from that. You know who..

Is it? Seems to me we were all raiding again and then Chest fucked it all up.

[Lanuven]

Is it? Seems to me we were all raiding again and then Chest fucked it all up.

How did Chest fk it all up? Sirken and Derubael or w/e agreed to and put something into effect that Rogaen did not approve of, nor did any of the other guilds in the T2 discussions.

Maybe next time learn what you are talking about before hand.

[Rhambuk]

were on the fast track to rnf now

[YendorLootmonkey]

These other guilds trying to slip by... that is some funny shit.

My two most memorable interactions with TMO:

Full Circle breaking hate from port-up spot when Inny spawns. TMO arrives and immediately brings down the entire zone on top of everyone. After several attempts to tag Inny out of the chaos, something like 75% of the players across all attendant guilds are dead (some more than once), but TMO gets dem pixels. edit: I just remembered - we actually got awarded FTE from that kill. Unfortunately, nothing good dropped and our evening was still shat upon.

Azure Guard breaking Fear when Draco spawns. TMO zones in en masse and sets up 30 feet away from us on west wall. Enormous train happens. TMO kills Draco, scoops loot, and then something like 90% of players across both guilds are killed to the collapsing kite. But goddammit, TMO got dat Draco loot ahead of them do-nothing, no-effort, casual scum.

Gorgeous execution - really top-notch. You totally deserved that loot more. I feel bad that we tried to slip past you and get something we didn't work for.

TMO sincerely has no idea what they did to shit up the raid scene, remember?

Inb4 "FRAPS or it never happened", amirite?

[Lanuven]

Reading you loud and clear

Try again..

[Ciroco]

Azure Guard breaking Fear when Draco spawns. TMO zones in en masse and sets up 30 feet away from us on west wall. Enormous train happens. TMO kills Draco, scoops loot, and then something like 90% of players across both guilds are killed to the collapsing kite. But goddammit, TMO got dat Draco loot ahead of them do-nothing, no-effort, casual scum.

This is why I'm hesitant to say that Velious is the answer to all of our problems. That was only a couple months ago, for freaking Draco of all mobs. They're willing to put forth that level of "effort" for a Fear mini-raid mob after downing the vast majority of raid targets for however long; why would they lay off dragons or epic mobs just because a new expansion comes out? When you get off on stomping other players, there is no such thing as "enough" of a certain target as long as other people still desire it.

[Derubael]

were on the fast track to rnf now

We've arrived! Have fun everyone!

[YendorLootmonkey]

How did Chest fk it all up? Sirken and Derubael or w/e agreed to and put something into effect that Rogaen did not approve of, nor did any of the other guilds in the T2 discussions.

Maybe next time learn what you are talking about before hand.

Because its easier for them to focus on slandering one individual in an attempt to cut off the head of their opponent ala Coldblooded than to admit the reality of the situation. Don't think we don't see right through this. All they need now is to post a RL pic of Chest and insult him with it and the typical "extreme competition" M.O. will be realized.

[Autotune]

We've arrived! Have fun everyone!

Thank you, I've wanted to call everyone in this thread a faggot for quite a long while.

[Autotune]

You're all faggots and I hope Nilbog delivers.

[Rhambuk]

We've arrived! Have fun everyone!

Bonus points for calling it?

[arsenalpow]

Bonus points for calling it?

It's really no different than saying "the sun will rise today"

[Rhambuk]

It's really no different than saying "the sun will rise today"

but someday it won't!

this was guaranteed rnf

[Uteunayr]

It wont be

Because it will be blocked by ignorant, foolish individuals with no sense of coming to a reasonable, workable, scientifically valid compromise that works to everyone's benefit (even their own), because it doesn't work only to their benefit.

Anyway, we're on RNF now with this thread, so I am backing out. I avoid this part of the forums like the plague, but Server Chat has seemed more and more like this place as it is.

[Spitty]

Like i said previously.
Wipe the server and restart it with the shitty items (manastones, etc) out from start and account trading illegal from start. It will cleanse the server of all fraudulous money (for awhile) previous abuse, cheats etc. No one will have 10-20 level 60 to gear up and park and it will be a very fun experience again.

Fix the raids for awhile, lets a new community order be born.

It's all pixels anyway who cares if we restart from scratch. Those who will care the most are the ones who paid real money for their pixels and thats makes it an even better solution.

I just had to drop in to say a hearty fuck-you, you non-playing chat-n-rez psychopath.

Leave my legitimate, non-raiding, time-spent pixels alone.

Did you get that fuck-you part, by the way? Because fuck you.

Fix your own fucking problems.

[Arteker]

If you don't like PVP, why is tier1 shoving it on the rest of the server? You realize this competition against other humans (players) for "fastest jav in the west" is player vs. player? On the blue server, competition should be "player vs. environment", regardless of how "old & stale" the environment is. That's the argument of casuals, PVP is for Red99, where you can turn around and attack that monk vying for "fastest jav in the west".

Because versus player means if u have a trouble with someone u just kill the other people . i dont find fun slaying a opponent for pixixel, beatin him in a race mobilization and execution is.

[Arteker]

Did you play on every server at the top tier to get a hold of their rotation? Many people here remember a rotation on their server, and many people here remember FFA competition on their server. Both can be included.

i played in live for 11 years, been in several servers, solusek ro , AB, SH,druzzil ro, anyonae,..... always in top end competitive guilds.

the enviroment changed once instanced was added but again only saw a enforced gm rotation in SH and over the time it was what killed server when guilds blocked acces to others to potime by killing flag mobs so when they where in their period of the rotation it never poped.


eventualy GMs didint wanted to touch rotation even when was evident slowly people was angry and angrier, by the time they realzied they had lost 3 major guilds moving of the server, nobody cared but population begin to get low and most high end raid was abandoned,

5 months later of my guild leaving the server it was closed by the staff, i later even got a email of GM lead pugigi where she admit they didint realize how bad was the rotation system for top end guilds.

[Llodd]

There really is no point in trying to reason with some people. Please remember.

[Arteker]

underground RMT?

ya know buying alt armies etc....

i know very few tmos with buyed Accounts on the other hand people leveling his own alts like myself where a big number oof the guild.

i joined tmo as a necro, switched to a paladin wich i myself lvled , then made a war(originally for my rl brother but he is Casual and honestly doesnt like many of tmo members of that age), then a monk, then a rogue and now a shaman that means .


1: necro:
2: paladin.
2: warrior.
3:monk
4:rogue.
5: shaman.

lveled with my time and my pps , i used 4 of them for raid once they all hit lvl 60, the rest of the time was used doing groups of whatever come.


so i would like to know when my toons become part of a raider only world and they stop to play with other people in the server.

because it was never the case.

[oldschooltrader]

i played in live for 11 years, been in several servers, solusek ro , AB, SH,druzzil ro, anyonae,..... always in top end competitive guilds.

the enviroment changed once instanced was added but again only saw a enforced gm rotation in SH and over the time it was what killed server when guilds blocked acces to others to potime by killing flag mobs so when they where in their period of the rotation it never poped.


eventualy GMs didint wanted to touch rotation even when was evident slowly people was angry and angrier, by the time they realzied they had lost 3 major guilds moving of the server, nobody cared but population begin to get low and most high end raid was abandoned,

5 months later of my guild leaving the server it was closed by the staff, i later even got a email of GM lead pugigi where she admit they didint realize how bad was the rotation system for top end guilds.


any plans turning this compelling tale into a paperback? What ab a bi-weekly retelling of your adventures via fireside radio chats.

GM Pugigi can write your forward.....

[Arteker]

I think it would be interesting to see, even if just for a brief period, exactly what would happen if we ported all of the pro-competition blue players on to red.

well i know my rl brother and myself would like to bring some suffering to Nizzar for racist remarks but after a few kills we would get bored and stop playing.

[Arteker]

any plans turning this compelling tale into a paperback? What ab a bi-weekly retelling of your adventures via fireside radio chats.

GM Pugigi can write your forward.....

i still in touch with her , and thank for find my adventures amusing.