Druid run kiting DoTs nefed?

[Crusader]

As a returning classic player who played in 2000, I distinctly remember that druid run kiting DoTs were not penalized. Possibly Verant patched that in and later rescinded it, like many other things they did, but I have spoken to several old timer classic druid players and none remember run kiting DoTs being penalized. If you are a classic original EQ druid player, could you please respond to this post to clarify this.

[Laok]

DoTs weren't nerfed till WAAAAY later.

Not sure why this is in P99. I've always wondered that.

[Swish]

At this point in the timeline dots lose a third of their potency if the mob isn't rooted or feared. (right?)

Nobody likes it, but it doesn't stop a lot of druids quadding :p

[Laok]

Did they do that during Kunark then remove it only to bring it back much later? I also don't remember a DoT nerf this early in the timeline.

[Arteker]

hurrah for people even doesnt care for read patches . let me guess ex eqmac?:)

[Telin]

I think this was discussed before and somebody posted the live patch notes to support it. Coupling this with no snare/root stack at the moment makes being a soloing Druid a little more inefficient and dangerous. Oh well..

[Swish]

I think this was discussed before and somebody posted the live patch notes to support it. Coupling this with no snare/root stack at the moment makes being a soloing Druid a little more inefficient and dangerous. Oh well..

A minor inconvenience.

If you've got 100% proof of it not being in at this point, post it in the bugs section for Nilbog to look at. If its posted in server chat its likely just going to get lost.

Reroll necro if you're having a hard time, we love a good fear kite ;)

[Laok]

hurrah for people even doesnt care for read patches . let me guess ex eqmac?:)

Read ALL the patches? I have better things to do lol.

And no, Not a dirty hippy...

[Telin]

A minor inconvenience.

If you've got 100% proof of it not being in at this point, post it in the bugs section for Nilbog to look at. If its posted in server chat its likely just going to get lost.

Reroll necro if you're having a hard time, we love a good fear kite ;)

Patch notes supporting the nerf at this server timeline. Root and snare didn't stack until January 9, 2001, about 1 month after velious

[Arteker]

Read ALL the patches? I have better things to do lol.

And no, Not a dirty hippy...

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19990913.html

[Swish]

Patch notes supporting the nerf at this server timeline. Root and snare didn't stack until January 9, 2011, about 1 month after velious

Root and snare don't stack at the moment do they?

[parlay1]

The one thing that is surely messed up with Druids is the tracking nerf that is currently in effect, it's pretty much worthless now.

[Swish]

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/19990913.html

Dead Man Walking (Necromancer) has been renamed Dead Man Floating.

lol, what a nerf!

[Telin]

I can't find patch notes about when this nerf was removed. Comments only say by PoP so the dot nerf may be permanent here?

[Telin]

Root and snare don't stack at the moment do they?

They don't until a month after velious if that timeline is strictly followed. It can be a pain worrying about your root breaking or resisting in limited spaces. If sow drops at any time you're in trouble. You should really only snare kite if using nukes or fearing or partner with a melee.

[Crusader]

The point is Swish, if the devs want to be true to the game it should be played the same as classic was. I don't think Sony has all the Verant patches and repatches, or they are not presenting the entire picture. If I was being penalized back in 2000 for DoT damage with run kiting, I would have learned how to fear kite or root rot. There was no DoT damage penalty at that time, regardless of what Sony notes say.

[Widan]

There's definitely something incorrect because you can see from the first DoT tick a moving mob only takes 66% of the damage, but the patch notes you linked say that should only happen after 3 ticks (18 seconds).

[Clark]

I think this was discussed before and somebody posted the live patch notes to support it. Coupling this with no snare/root stack at the moment makes being a soloing Druid a little more inefficient and dangerous. Oh well..

[Derubael]

There's definitely something incorrect because you can see from the first DoT tick a moving mob only takes 66% of the damage, but the patch notes you linked say that should only happen after 3 ticks (18 seconds).

If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken.

DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds (Derubael's Note: exactly 18 seconds) during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch.

I know that is somewhat confusing, but essentially, DoT spells were very slightly increased to try and offset the reduction in DoT damage.

If you think this isn't the case, I challenge you to find evidence to the contrary, because a huge section of the community confirms it did work this way in classic, and the patch notes seem to support that. If you do find that evidence, please post it in the bug forum. Nilbog and the dev's don't mind being proven wrong so long as they are being proved classic ;)

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but spell damage from DoTs being displayed in the client wasn't even in at release. It was added some time after.

[Tasslehofp99]

Why would you dot a mobile mob anyway? You have root that allows you to sit and med too; without all the running around at that.

[Iliilliill]

not repealed until Luclin sometime?

http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020724.html

OP try the search function before making 3 threads about it.

[Ele]

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but spell damage from DoTs being displayed in the client wasn't even in at release. It was added some time after.

Yes, those messages should get the boot.

June 2003
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030611a.html
"Healing Messages - The target of a healing spell will now get a message telling them the caster's name and the amount of healing they receive.

Reporting Damage Over Time - Damage over Time (DoT) done to NPCs will now be reported to the caster every time it does damage. These messages can be filtered in the Options window."

[Daldaen]

Yes, those messages should get the boot.

June 2003
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030611a.html
"Healing Messages - The target of a healing spell will now get a message telling them the caster's name and the amount of healing they receive.

Reporting Damage Over Time - Damage over Time (DoT) done to NPCs will now be reported to the caster every time it does damage. These messages can be filtered in the Options window."

Nilbog hates classic:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65504

It doesn't really make sense to me. Seeing as how 0 classes get a new DoT spell in Velious.

[Ele]

Nilbog hates classic:

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65504

It doesn't really make sense to me. Seeing as how 0 classes get a new DoT spell in Velious.

A couple classes get new dots, albeit mid level ones:

Clerics: Turning of the Unnatural
Necros: Chilling Embrace

[Daldaen]

Ah I must have skipped over those but really... very inconsequential spells and you just have to check them once.

[Laok]

Why would you dot a mobile mob anyway? You have root that allows you to sit and med too; without all the running around at that.

Because it's safer to snare and kite than root and have it break when it wants to?

I don't remember this nerf happening till much later, at least for bards. It was added to discourage swarm kiting IIRC, but in classic, Bard DoTs (which only last 3 ticks) weren't nerfed on moving mobs (again, based on my recollection). I'm looking through Lucy, but that only goes back to '02

[Crusader]

I have further questions about the patch notes...Evidently the 18 sec rule is controlling on the amount of damage the DoT does. So, if you run/kite for 15 secs, then root the mob for the remainder of the fight, supposedly the damage is actually increased over what it would be normally...but if the root breaks after 3 secs the damage somehow reverts to normal damage...but if it breaks after 6 secs and the mob runs it suddenly reduces, unless the mob is running away due to low health..at which time the damage after that becomes normal damage....(this is not what the damage messages indicate) and I believe this is why the run/kite rule was repatched at some point to eliminate this ridiculous damage computation. I do not remember any druid having to kite like this...and I was specifically attuned to DoT damage "adjustments" by Verant)

[Daldaen]

The 18 second comment is merely a balance concern.

IE This:

prenerf-DoT = 60s duration, 100 DMG a tick = 1000 DMG prenerf
postnerf-DoT = 60s duration, 120 DMG a tick = 1200 DMG postnerf

However if you kited for 3 ticks 120*2/3=80 = 1080 DMG postnerf
However if you kited for all ticks = 800 DMG postnerf

Not a perfect example but that is what it means.

[Derubael]

I have further questions about the patch notes...Evidently the 18 sec rule is controlling on the amount of damage the DoT does. So, if you run/kite for 15 secs, then root the mob for the remainder of the fight, supposedly the damage is actually increased over what it would be normally...but if the root breaks after 3 secs the damage somehow reverts to normal damage...but if it breaks after 6 secs and the mob runs it suddenly reduces, unless the mob is running away due to low health..at which time the damage after that becomes normal damage....(this is not what the damage messages indicate) and I believe this is why the run/kite rule was repatched at some point to eliminate this ridiculous damage computation. I do not remember any druid having to kite like this...and I was specifically attuned to DoT damage "adjustments" by Verant)

Couple things to hopefully quell your concerns of our DoT system not being classic:

First, this post from Ele, who is amazing because he dug out the patch note when I was unwilling to do so:

Yes, those messages should get the boot.

June 2003
http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20030611a.html
"Healing Messages - The target of a healing spell will now get a message telling them the caster's name and the amount of healing they receive.

Reporting Damage Over Time - Damage over Time (DoT) done to NPCs will now be reported to the caster every time it does damage. These messages can be filtered in the Options window."

So the reason you probably don't remember it is because during classic (Release -> Velious and even in to Luclin), you couldn't even see how much damage your DoTs were doing per tick. You just had to guess and/or read the spell entry on one of the popular sites at the time.

Second, the damage done per tick by DoTs was not increased, the duration of the DoT was very slightly increased. Personally I think it was a silly way for the patch note to be worded, but w/e, we can't control that. The DoT would still do the same damage per tick (unless the mob was moving and not feared), it just lasted longer. This is absolutely classic and as I stated before, many people remember this change taking effect (including druids!).

To sum it all up, you can still snare kite as a druid. I see it happen all the time here on Project 1999, just like it did on live. Now here's something very classic that you used to see all the time on live Everquest:

Working as intended.

:D