Sirken locks thread before I can say good call

[mishurza]

Sorry chest if you would have given FE/IB a little more time I'm sure they would have provided all the rope needed to hang themselves with draco.

[Lron]

as much as i like the GMs over here...the thread locking has become kind of insane over the past couple weeks for some reason...this is R&F...we can all handle it sirken and deru.

[Tanthallas]

we can all handle it sirken and deru.

Most questionable statement ever written on these forums.

[Langrisserx]

naw naw gaurantee he handles it daily

[Kagatob]

y'all a bunch of faggots for bringing the raid scene to that level. Admins included.

FTE. fucking idiots the lot of you.

[Autotune]

Kiting is King.

Kite mob, kill mob, get loot, keep loot.

The burden of proof to prove that you didn't is huge and at worst they will just raid suspend you for a week, if they ever get around to it.

[Kagatob]

Nothing even close to that level of bullshit ever happened on live.

Live also didn't have dumbass fte rules either though... go figure.

[kotton05]

Sorry chest if you would have given FE/IB a little more time I'm sure they would have provided all the rope needed to hang themselves with draco.

lol you're bad

http://31.media.tumblr.com/fa9ed6c43db8015644aeb63b73736031/tumblr_mi3egqQqOM1r6g6hko1_500.jpg

[Autotune]

Nothing even close to that level of bullshit ever happened on live.

Live also didn't have dumbass fte rules either though... go figure.

I've watched VD kite Talendor in huge S curves non-stop all the way to their raid force before with Amelinda in the zone. Told her they were kiting and all she did was shout about not peeling it off them. Afterwards nothing even happened and they ended up with the loot.

It's so bad on here sometimes that it's laughable.

There is also a few famous Sev kites.

I've seen CT get kited in Fear for several minutes when a guild was wiping (Clicky rez'n their guild while CT was running around).

Kiting is one of the hardest things on here to prove that someone did unless they do it for an absurd amount of time and in a very obvious way and even then who knows if it will look like that on the fraps.

[Vandy]

So FE stale kites... broken rule

BDA tags because above rule is broken which turns out to be another rule being broken.
2nd rule being broken completely negates first rule being broken? Must have been written to the same sector of the hard drive, no way to prove the first rule was broken due to overwrites.... gg

[contemptor]

Summary- Don't make your own decisions. Even if another guild is cheating, don't step in, load up a 3rd party program and take video of the event, then upload it somewhere, so you can report it and get a response in 3-5 weeks. Nobody will get banned, but theoretically you could get transferred some loot.

[radditsu]

First In force rule....

The povar way.

[Autotune]

So FE stale kites... broken rule

BDA tags because above rule is broken which turns out to be another rule being broken.
2nd rule being broken completely negates first rule being broken? Must have been written to the same sector of the hard drive, no way to prove the first rule was broken due to overwrites.... gg

Yep and if kiting was easier to prove people wouldn't try and peel. Which now probably isn't a great idea, as they would just look at logs and say that you KS'd a pull and then raid suspended you a few days later for KSing. Which makes it far more favorable to just stall kite and then just blame it on being lost lol

[contemptor]

I would've thought the correct response is BDA would get banned if stepping in unfairly (aka cheating- stealing FTE) in a situation like this, but apparently stepping in fairly (after rule violation) without reporting it first is not allowed. Thankfully this is clear now and reassuringly will never happen again on project 1999.

[Autotune]

Summary- Don't make your own decisions. Even if another guild is cheating, don't step in, load up a 3rd party program and take video of the event, then upload it somewhere, so you can report it and get a response in 3-5 weeks. Nobody will get banned, but theoretically you could get transferred some loot.

They were duping the loot awhile back, because after having the loot awarded for so long to a character they didn't want to take it away from them or have to track it down lol.

[Kagatob]

First In force rule....

The povar way.

Will never happen, server doesn't have the balls. They prefer camped alt raid forces and poopsocking over prioritizing targets and possibly missing others while socking.

Worst part is the server admin welcomes such attitudes even though it adds so much more work with the fraps and shit when raid force world only require checking a zone population log.

Let tards be tards.

[Tanthallas]

So FE stale kites... broken rule

BDA tags because above rule is broken which turns out to be another rule being broken.
2nd rule being broken completely negates first rule being broken? Must have been written to the same sector of the hard drive, no way to prove the first rule was broken due to overwrites.... gg

There was no kite because BDA pulled Draco off before any kite was initiated - it was straight pulled to Westwall and tanked; whether or not there would have been a kite if they did not is the only question here. You cannot pull a mob off before there is a kite claiming that there would have been a kite.

Personally I think that not having a raidforce in the zone should disqualify a guild from claiming the mob, however the server rules do not agree with me. My father has yelled at me about this numerous times. People who want to raid on this server should have learned long ago that the prerequisite to doing so is being able to separate your RL ethics and morals from your virtual ones. Idealism and principles mean nothing when the rules of the game do not recognize them.

[runlvlzero]

I've had about 10 good thrads deleted on me and I'm pretty sad about it. Most have to do with the game and are on topic as well.

[Hailto]

Are you guys employed?

[Autotune]

There was no kite because BDA pulled Draco off before any kite was initiated - it was straight pulled to Westwall and tanked; whether or not there would have been a kite if they did not is the only question here. You cannot pull a mob off before there is a kite claiming that there would have been a kite.

Personally I think that not having a raidforce in the zone should disqualify a guild from claiming the mob, however the server rules do not agree with me. My father has yelled at me about this numerous times. People who want to raid on this server should have learned long ago that the prerequisite to doing so is being able to separate your RL ethics and morals from your virtual ones. Idealism and principles mean nothing when the rules of the game do not recognize them.

Do not peel a kite, it's something you do when you're frustrated. Kiting gives you the upper hand and having a guild peel your kite means you've just won.


Also, p99 raiding is about not wanting your time wasted. Huge amounts of time invested for each raid target (tracking) so no one wants that to go to waste. Everyone plays like their time is more valuable to them than the competitions. It's not so much that you leave your morals, it's just that they get in the way far to often and not very many people are going to keep their morals so they can waste more time.

[contemptor]

People who want to raid on this server should have learned long ago that the prerequisite to doing so is being able to separate your RL ethics and morals from your virtual ones. Idealism and principles mean nothing when the rules of the game do not recognize them.
So that's what I've been doing wrong, FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

[runlvlzero]

Are you guys employed?

I am.

[Hitpoint]

I see the guy frapsing doing /who forceful. Which shows 1 person. I never once see him /who inglourious which should show at least two more people I think.

Pull was direct to west wall. If you guys hadn't pulled it off the bard, who was planning to tank it straight up until the rest of the raid zoned in, maybe he would have been killed before the rest of us got there.

I understand it's upsetting to lose the mob with so many in zone. But we kept the mob tracked for it's whole window, we're definitely going to attempt to kill it when it spawns.

[arsenalpow]

There was no kite because BDA pulled Draco off before any kite was initiated - it was straight pulled to Westwall and tanked; whether or not there would have been a kite if they did not is the only question here. You cannot pull a mob off before there is a kite claiming that there would have been a kite.

he pulled it to his raid right? oh wait

if you aren't pulling it to a raid then it's A KITE, holy shit why is that so hard to understand?

[radditsu]

he pulled it to his raid right? oh wait

if you aren't pulling it to a raid then it's A KITE, holy shit why is that so hard to understand?

If there was no raid to pull to...is it a kite?

[Aeaolena]

I see the guy frapsing doing /who forceful. Which shows 1 person. I never once see him /who inglourious which should show at least two more people I think.

Pull was direct to west wall. If you guys hadn't pulled it off the bard, who was planning to tank it straight up until the rest of the raid zoned in, maybe he would have been killed before the rest of us got there.

I understand it's upsetting to lose the mob with so many in zone. But we kept the mob tracked for it's whole window, we're definitely going to attempt to kill it when it spawns.

It doesn't matter if it was directly pulled to the west wall, as you say directly in your post:
who was planning to tank it straight up until the rest of the raid zoned in
who was planning to tank it straight up until the rest of the raid zoned in
who was planning to tank it straight up until the rest of the raid zoned in

Yes, exactly, and as it says per the written rules:
A: It is now against server policy to indefinitely kite, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of bringing it to your raid camp. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stall-kiting of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild, will result in disciplinary actions against the kiter's account, and possibly their raid/guild leadership.

or otherwise keep occupied

or

It sucks to be tracking a mob all that time and run the risk of disadvantage of a guild that already has a force in the zone.. but sitting a bard on the spawn point and stalling "otherwise keep occupied" a mob until the rest of your force zones in is not "bringing it back to your raid camp".

No idiot would argue that two people is a "raid camp", and as your said yourself:
who was planning to tank it straight up until the rest of the raid zoned in

Stalling.

Grow a pair and get your force in the zone before you pull. Winning by shady tactics is so TMO.

[BigLe2e]

It doesn't matter if it was directly pulled to the west wall, as you say directly in your post:




Yes, exactly, and as it says per the written rules:






It sucks to be tracking a mob all that time and run the risk of disadvantage of a guild that already has a force in the zone.. but sitting a bard on the spawn point and stalling "otherwise keep occupied" a mob until the rest of your force zones in is not "bringing it back to your raid camp".

No idiot would argue that two people is a "raid camp", and as your said yourself:


Stalling.

Grow a pair and get your force in the zone before you pull. Winning by shady tactics is so TMO.

^pretty much this

[Ahldagor]

sirken explained it

http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130641&page=3

quit whining

[Hitpoint]

I took this from the rule you quoted, "a raid mob without intention of bringing it to your raid camp." He brought draco right to our camp and didn't move. Just as he said he was going to in vent.

Well, Draco is one groupable. So I wouldn't say 3-4 people are incapable of fighting it while the rest of the raid zone in. There was a druid with a soulfire, a monk, and something else (maybe wizard?) in there with supremacy. And there were many others running through the lich tunnels, seconds away.

It's totally understandable to be mad about this stuff. But we've lost Draco to tmo the exact same way, many times, and vis versa. It happens all the time. The bard goes out to kite the trash and FTE draco while he's the only one in zone. By the time he gets back to camp 2-3 more people have zoned in and they can all stay alive until the killforce gets there. It's upsetting, but we don't petition this when it happens.

[Autotune]

IB has killed Draco with like 3 or 4 people before. So I wouldn't go with the "3 people aren't a raid force" lol.

[Aeaolena]

Sirkin has to deal with so much bullshit spewing from the TMO vs. FE/IB battle every time mobs spawn that I am not shocked him and the guide focus'd on the perspective of FTE and FTE only.

Just because TMO does this to you, and you cannot fraps it.. does not mean it isn't a bannable offense.

I can put an X on the ground mentally of any zone and call it my "camp". Two people does not make a raid, and that's all that matters at the time it was pulled.

And you know it.

[Autotune]

You guys seem to be new to this stuff, so here are some tips.

1) Never fucking peel someone else's kite/pull. You don't need fraps as evidence when you petition that someone stole your shit.

2) Pulling draco (any pullable raid target) with under 5 people in the zone is not against the rules, stop crying about it.

3) "Shady Tactics" are nonexistant. There are legal tactics and there are non-legal tactics and everything is legal unless you get caught. DO NOT GET CAUGHT (or if you're not good enough, don't attempt shit you'll most likely get caught doing).

4) Arguing with staff that they are wrong will not work, stop telling them they are wrong and start looking for something they might have "missed." Staff will never overturn something when you tell them they are stupid and made the wrong call, instead try calling to light another rule that works against what they called and ask them to look at it from that perspective. People tend to admit they are wrong if they believe they came to that conclusion on their own.

5) Raid size isn't defined, never bring that shit up again.


Disagree with me all you want, it changes absolutely nothing. The rules are there to be manipulated, because they are all written in a way that people have to guess what is implied to certain key aspects. What is a raid? well, that's not defined on P99, so anything can be a raid if that's what you want to call it. What is a kite? Well, who knows where the line is between a kite and a pull... However, everyone knows the where the line is when it comes to stealing a pull/kite.

6) Play in the gray, stand in the light, but if you find yourself in the darkness... deny, deny, deny.

[Ele]

I can put an X on the ground mentally of any zone and call it my "camp". Two people does not make a raid, and that's all that matters at the time it was pulled.

And you know it.

And if you don't engage it at your "camp", then it is kiting. The fraps showed the bard tanking it so it was engaged.

How many would you consider a raid? Maestro is duoable, Ragefire is duoable, Draco should be readily duoable (easily trio'd) in a single pull situation. Should any of those duos or trios with legitimate FTE not be given their attempt?

Talendor, Faydedar, and Severilious are routinely pulled with only 1 or 2 members of a particular guild in the zone and the puller has to hope that their raid force login or zone by the time they reach the "camp".

[Lron]

Shut up autotune.

[Autotune]

Shut up autotune.

I should charge for that advice.

[Ahldagor]

You guys seem to be new to this stuff, so here are some tips.

1) Never fucking peel someone else's kite/pull. You don't need fraps as evidence when you petition that someone stole your shit.

2) Pulling draco (any pullable raid target) with under 5 people in the zone is not against the rules, stop crying about it.

3) "Shady Tactics" are nonexistant. There are legal tactics and there are non-legal tactics and everything is legal unless you get caught. DO NOT GET CAUGHT (or if you're not good enough, don't attempt shit you'll most likely get caught doing).

4) Arguing with staff that they are wrong will not work, stop telling them they are wrong and start looking for something they might have "missed." Staff will never overturn something when you tell them they are stupid and made the wrong call, instead try calling to light another rule that works against what they called and ask them to look at it from that perspective. People tend to admit they are wrong if they believe they came to that conclusion on their own.

5) Raid size isn't defined, never bring that shit up again.


Disagree with me all you want, it changes absolutely nothing. The rules are there to be manipulated, because they are all written in a way that people have to guess what is implied to certain key aspects. What is a raid? well, that's not defined on P99, so anything can be a raid if that's what you want to call it. What is a kite? Well, who knows where the line is between a kite and a pull... However, everyone knows the where the line is when it comes to stealing a pull/kite.

6) Play in the gray, stand in the light, but if you find yourself in the darkness... deny, deny, deny.


i don't even raid and know this.

[Pint]

6) Play in the gray, stand in the light, but if you find yourself in the darkness... deny, deny, deny.

i lol'd, this is good advice.

[Kagatob]

y'all a bunch of faggots for bringing the raid scene to that level. Admins included.

FTE. fucking idiots the lot of you.

Nothing even close to that level of bullshit ever happened on live.

Live also didn't have dumbass fte rules either though... go figure.

You all shit in the bed, sleep in it.

[Ella`Ella]

he pulled it to his raid right? oh wait

if you aren't pulling it to a raid then it's A KITE, holy shit why is that so hard to understand?

Wrong. It's a kite if you fail to take the most direct path to a camp where the target will be engaged (unless it's Talendor, in which case you can do several figure 8's around VP entrance and then run along the wall opposite of your camp). You don't need anyone else in the zone as "Sufficient raid force" is not a requisite for killing a target.

I know raiding is something very new and novel to BDA, however please respect the server rules regarding FTE.

[Alarti0001]

Sirkin has to deal with so much bullshit spewing from the TMO vs. FE/IB battle every time mobs spawn that I am not shocked him and the guide focus'd on the perspective of FTE and FTE only.

Just because TMO does this to you, and you cannot fraps it.. does not mean it isn't a bannable offense.

I can put an X on the ground mentally of any zone and call it my "camp". Two people does not make a raid, and that's all that matters at the time it was pulled.

And you know it.

Don't forget all the shit spewing from Anthax/Metallikus over draco today. =)

[arsenalpow]

Wrong. It's a kite if you fail to take the most direct path to a camp where the target will be engaged (unless it's Talendor, in which case you can do several figure 8's around VP entrance and then run along the wall opposite of your camp). You don't need anyone else in the zone as "Sufficient raid force" is not a requisite for killing a target.

I know raiding is something very new and novel to BDA, however please respect the server rules regarding FTE.

You're an idiot

[Ella`Ella]

You're an idiot

An Idiot with 2 more BCGs...

[Autotune]

An Idiot with 2 more BCGs...

Well, as long as you know what you are.

[Locust]

Grats on being awarded both BCGs, idiot


rules lawyered BCGs are the best BCGs. if i had a BCG i would be sooooo happy. winter sucks and i need validation in my life. FUCK! is BCG even good for a ranger i wish i had that itam.

[Hitpoint]

We didn't need to rule lawyer anything. The BCGs were never in question. Two GMs were there watching the whole thing and said grats. Our guild didn't even know there was an issue until we looked at RNF.

[Handull]

he pulled it to his raid right? oh wait

if you aren't pulling it to a raid then it's A KITE, holy shit why is that so hard to understand?

confirmed, solo/duo players must fight all mobs at their spawn points, not allowed to pull to a safe area

confirmed, 30 man raid required to kill draco

[Locust]

We didn't need to rule lawyer anything. The BCGs were never in question. Two GMs were there watching the whole thing and said grats. Our guild didn't even know there was an issue until we looked at RNF.

grats :)

[Troubled]

As a BDA member I don't disagree with the ruling but I'd encourage FE/IB not to act like they're fighting the good fight against people who pull this server into the pit when they employ the same tactics vs the rest of the server as well. You should all just merge.