A simple poll regarding player raid rules

[Dukat]

I did this mostly to satisfy my own curiosity. Vote, and I hope you have a pleasant day, no matter who or what you are. Much obliged.

[Abacab2]

Yo Dukat totally got your SK suspended brah, for feigning on a DA raid :(

[Dukat]

I hope you used fraps. I'd kinda like to see my blaze of glory. BTW my bro changed the PW, gonna try and get my shit recovered....

[Abacab2]

Just petition yo

[nerfed]

Can we hire you to train people? I voted FFA.

[Dukat]

I voted FFA too. Straight gully shit.

[Supreme]

It is safe to say that while IB was not happy with a rotation the rotation system did work and it did bring stability to raiding. This current raid spawn variance has been nothing but a headache for everyone. The camping, the petitions all the trainings and bannings.

Trans started poopsocking to force a rotation and here we are again. It is time to put in a rotation and have some peace.

[Kinamur1999]

Though I hate FFA, the idea of training, griefing, and generally being a douchebag to snake another raids target isn't for me, I'd sure as hell love to see it compared to what we have now.

At least then thered be more than 2 guilds getting targets. Hooray for...classic?

[Dukat]

At first it would be a wipe fest. But then it would evolve into a system of alliances. Certain guilds would agree to not train eachothers raids... Then new come-up guilds would start bucking the system and training raids, trying to get a window... perhaps successful perhaps blackballed forever. Obviously this server has a penchant for drama, might as well serve it directly imho.

[Detnogetsovs]

This server is dead, move along and do something else.

Stop wasting your already pathetic life even more.

[Straif]

FFA would be sweet, I'd maintain no guild affliation and train the shit out of raids.

Detnogetsovs, U mad brah?
I hope you get your skull split like a partial birth abortion.

[Humerox]

Rotation? We tried that here before. Good luck to new guilds that want in on it when they're ready.

[truzek]

FFA is the only viable solution

[Kinamur1999]

Rotation? We tried that here before. Good luck to new guilds that want in on it when they're ready.

Do you play now? Good luck to new guilds that want in on it when they're ready

[astarothel]

forgot an option brew. dynamic rotation.

[Supreme]

FFA is the only viable solution

Ya if you are a thick skulled moron i would have to agree...

wait you are a thick skulled moron...DAMNIT!

[Humerox]

Do you play now? Good luck to new guilds that want in on it when they're ready

Yes I do. And I don't disagree with you.

[Humerox]

Ahhhh...dynamic rotation.

Not so bad. Wasn't the way rotation worked before. The guilds were spelled out in the rules, and any newcomers were...SoL pretty much.

[Straif]

Prexus was rotation, than it disintegrated into FCFS. Every guild had a character parked in various zones to pop in and check mobs. Trains happened, CoH jump overs happened, fights occurred but it was rare because there was also more content at that time. If Guild X was in Kael we were bum rushing NToV. Or if in the same zone, if someones doing Cursed Cycle we were hitting up Emp Ssra.

First come, First Serve. I'm not opposed to it when in the realm of a greater universe of EQ, but right now, there is not a lot of content to spread around.
It wouldn't seem that big of a deal if guilds managed to get it in when they could. But if one or two guild have shit locked down permanently, that's kinda gay.

[Supreme]

Rotation and 24 hour spawn timer on all boss mobs.

Lets open the gates gentlemen!

[Humerox]

Who gets the spawn if the guild that is at bat is sleeping?

[Agaron]

Who gets the spawn if the guild that is at bat is sleeping?

Most guilds on live never missed their time up to bat, and if they did I imagine someone in leadership would log in and forfeit it at said time. I'd guess since guild population isn't as huge as live you'd prob have to make a player rule on how long you have to give it up, or give a set time that would make it near impossible not to miss.

But realistically as much as people want a rotation I highly doubt all the big zerg guilds currently are going to want to give up their 24/7 poopsocking phat loot for other guilds.

Rotation is the more peaceful way, but only way it will work is if 100% of the raiding guilds agree on it, and it would have to be reagreed on every so often for new guilds, and once you hit x amount of guilds, those guilds are going to get fed up with how many are in the rotation. No one is going to want to wait for 20 guilds to cycle.

What is the server going to do when there is enough big guilds to perma camp each of the raid bosses, and no other guilds will be able to push them out?

FFA still seems like the best choice. It might be chaotic, but at least it will be fun, and people can't whine to the GM about rules, because frankly there won't be any.

[Aadill]

I, too, post funny image macros. Here is a funny image macro:



















































I couldn't find one.

[Humerox]

What is the server going to do when there is enough big guilds to perma camp each of the raid bosses, and no other guilds will be able to push them out?

We're already there. Big guilds are even starting to split camps. :)

[Remiel]

Rotation but with only 1 hour windows, imo.

the 2nd guild on the list for the raid boss can call 1 hour to engage on the 1st guild and if they failed, 2nd guild gets their 1 hour to engage.

This:
- eliminates poopsocking (if the guild is confident on their ability to mobilise quickly - otherwise it's the guild's choice to keep poopsocking)
- gives other guilds a chance to the raid bosses given the 1 hour window

Fair system. everyone has their shot, if they dont work hard to get their kills, other guilds will get their shots.

[Daldolma]

FFA, IMO. First to engage has rights to the mob. EverQuest was never fair, it's not meant to be fair. It's meant to be fun and competitive. And here's what's not fun or competitive: camping a 15 minute encounter for 3 days. Here's what is fun and competitive: finding out Naggy just popped and seeing if you can mobilize enough people fast enough to a) beat Guilds X, Y, Z there, and b) actually succeed in killing Naggy.

And if you AFK 3/4 of your guild on top of a raid mob's spawn point, IMO, you should be 100% susceptible to being trained. Does it suck to get trained? Yeah. But it also sucks to ruin a game, and I'd argue that days-on-end AFK camping of raid mobs does a lot more to ruin this server than a little bit of rivalry. The irony is, NOBODY wins under the current server rules. Sure, IB and DA get the phat lewtz, but do they really enjoy AFK'ing for 48 hours and getting texted at 4 AM to log in for rezzes while poopsocking raid targets? I'm gonna venture a guess and say no -- I assume they do it because if they didn't, someone else would.

I appreciate everything the GMs do on this server, but in this case, IMO, they need to lay off and let the game dictate itself. In the grand scheme of things, I believe the multi-day camping of mobs is a lot worse for this server (and a lot more out of the classic-experience) than unfairness, training, and competition between guilds.

That being said, I do realize that discussing what is best for the server is a bit idealistic, as politics unfortunately play a large role in this matter.

[Agaron]

FFA, IMO. First to engage has rights to the mob. EverQuest was never fair, it's not meant to be fair. It's meant to be fun and competitive. And here's what's not fun or competitive: camping a 15 minute encounter for 3 days. Here's what is fun and competitive: finding out Naggy just popped and seeing if you can mobilize enough people fast enough to a) beat Guilds X, Y, Z there, and b) actually succeed in killing Naggy.

And if you AFK 3/4 of your guild on top of a raid mob's spawn point, IMO, you should be 100% susceptible to being trained. Does it suck to get trained? Yeah. But it also sucks to ruin a game, and I'd argue that days-on-end AFK camping of raid mobs does a lot more to ruin this server than a little bit of rivalry. The irony is, NOBODY wins under the current server rules. Sure, IB and DA get the phat lewtz, but do they really enjoy AFK'ing for 48 hours and getting texted at 4 AM to log in for rezzes while poopsocking raid targets? I'm gonna venture a guess and say no -- I assume they do it because if they didn't, someone else would.

I appreciate everything the GMs do on this server, but in this case, IMO, they need to lay off and let the game dictate itself. In the grand scheme of things, I believe the multi-day camping of mobs is a lot worse for this server (and a lot more out of the classic-experience) than unfairness, training, and competition between guilds.

That being said, I do realize that discussing what is best for the server is a bit idealistic, as politics unfortunately play a large role in this matter.

Wow. Someone else who feels the same.

[xorbier]

FFA. That would be so much fun. Rotation = welfare.

[Daldolma]

It's worse than welfare. Rotation doesn't fix the core problem of the current system, which is the total elimination of competition. The encounters in classic are not hard, given sufficient time and personnel. If you agree to just let one guild amass 30 people and spend half an hour prepping for a raid mob, this game is fucking easy. What made EQ end-game challenging was the time constraint, the fact that you were always on this time crunch to engage before another guild could beat you to the punch.

The whole dynamic is thrown off when there's no competition. You don't have to make the choice between engaging Naggy with 16 or waiting 5 minutes for another 5-6 people. There's no risk to waiting. In live, there was. You were trying to engage before the next guy, which means every guild would engage the second they had what they considered to be the absolute bare minimum in terms of personnel and preparation. That led to under-manning raid mobs, which is fun. And difficult. It's easy to wipe when you're going at it with too few raiders -- which would open the floor up for the next guild.

EQ Live end-game raiding was baseball. At the moment, P99 end-game raiding is tee-ball. You're not playing against anyone. You're just sizing it up and whacking the shit out of it.

[rioisk]

Why have we not looked at an obvious solution? Keep camp rules the way they are and return boss mobs to no variance. This would make it so if a guild wants to go kill Nagafen when they know he'll spawn then they must forfeit their camp rights to another target. Make it so a guild can only claim one target at a time so you don't get huge guilds split between multiple mobs.

This system would essentially equate to each raid target being permacamped by a single guild and switched between one another when they want different loot. Might be messy now with so few targets to kill but it'll get better with kunark. There must be less guilds than raid targets for this to work.

[rioisk]

It's worse than welfare. Rotation doesn't fix the core problem of the current system, which is the total elimination of competition. The encounters in classic are not hard, given sufficient time and personnel. If you agree to just let one guild amass 30 people and spend half an hour prepping for a raid mob, this game is fucking easy. What made EQ end-game challenging was the time constraint, the fact that you were always on this time crunch to engage before another guild could beat you to the punch.

The whole dynamic is thrown off when there's no competition. You don't have to make the choice between engaging Naggy with 16 or waiting 5 minutes for another 5-6 people. There's no risk to waiting. In live, there was. You were trying to engage before the next guy, which means every guild would engage the second they had what they considered to be the absolute bare minimum in terms of personnel and preparation. That led to under-manning raid mobs, which is fun. And difficult. It's easy to wipe when you're going at it with too few raiders -- which would open the floor up for the next guild.

EQ Live end-game raiding was baseball. At the moment, P99 end-game raiding is tee-ball. You're not playing against anyone. You're just sizing it up and whacking the shit out of it.

Remember that in 1999 the vast majority of players were probably playing on dial-up. Further, cell phones weren't huge then and neither was text messaging. It isn't the same game because we aren't the same players. We have hindsight of all quests, all mobs, all zones. Of course the game will seem like tee-ball. There's no challenge the second time around.

I'm sure many of these hardcore raiders on P1999 just want to relive their glory from 1999 because of the novelty of being uber back then in a mmorpg. Today's mmorpgs don't provide that satisfaction because everybody walks around in the same equipment because everything is instanced (think WoW). They need to feel cool with their god loot. Let them. If they want to spend a large portion of their life on this game - let them have as much loot as they want. Remember, even if you win the special Olympics -- you're still retarded.

[Dukat]

Raiding is kind of a boring, tedious activity. This game IS freakin' old. Thats why I welcome any kind of competitive metagame. I think FFA is as classic as this server can get. I think players would start talking to other players instead of to GMs.

There comes a time when you need to take the training wheels off and ride freely....

[rioisk]

Raiding is kind of a boring, tedious activity. This game IS freakin' old. Thats why I welcome any kind of competitive metagame. I think FFA is as classic as this server can get. I think players would start talking to other players instead of to GMs.

There comes a time when you need to take the training wheels off and ride freely....

I have to agree. Yeah it's "civilized" to not allow training or behavior that negatively affects others but in the current state of things the raid scene is boring as hell without it. I'm sure people would have a hard time poopsocking AFK is they run the risk of being trained while they were away.

Think of all the problems it would solve. GMs should just say "we'll fix bugs and glitches but otherwise players are left to their own devices, they can make of the world what they wish". May be the game will turn into a cutthroat train-fest. May be in the beginning it will be that way before guilds start figuring out ways to not step on each others toes. That's just the point though - if there are limited mean to step on the toes of others then the only leverage anybody has in the game is going by the GM rules to win.

Let's face it, we might see complaints on the forums about trains to the EC tunnel and banning people who do them but while we're sitting in EC trying to buy an item for an hour or so we can't help but smile when we see a huge pile of mobs run past us with a huge flux of /ooc and /shout screaming "TRAIN TO TUNNEL". We scramble with mixed feelings of "not again" to "thank god a reason to get up and cast a spell". I watch as many players go to town on destroying the mobs that some a-hole brought to piss people off.

I've heard it said many times by many people involved in the poopsocking that they don't like it. They continue only because it's the only way to win. These concepts are at odds - enjoyment and winning - when they really ought not to be - especially if we as the playerbase can help influence the rules.

What do you guys really want? Do you want a carebear environment where things are handed to you so long as you "maintain a presence at a camp", idle, chit chatting about football with your guild and cracking internet jokes, and quickly springing to attention when you get a pop. OR do you want a dynamic, fast paced, unforgiving world where people can totally screw you over and you can totally screw them over. Where you can act nobly and respect a guild as they get a kill or become notorious for stealing and doing whatever it takes.

The game will become much more than sitting around waiting for easy kills. It will become a game of politics, of eagerness, of preparation, of collusion, of training, of leapfrogging. You say "But if we allow training it will happen 24/7." perhaps, but may be not, may be in the beginning people will train left and right, but perhaps eventually learn nobody will get anywhere if that's all they do it one another. Perhaps an enchanter can camp frenzy in lguk but a group can get rid of him by training....in the process losing something....their reputation as respectful players. If done enough time, they'll be refused groups with the people they train. They'll be socially blacklisted. Eventually though I think players will form their own solutions to not have to harm one another's game play, and it will be their solution, the players, not the GMs telling them to play nice - because they aren't required - but because it's a social game where people must deal with the positive and negative inclinations of others.

A FFA system isn't as bad as people anticipated and those who fear it fear the destructive capabilities of others to prevent them from obtaining loot. This is nothing more than hiding behind the GMs.

You can choose to look at FFA as unlocking the gate to the deepest darkest motives to grief others in the game OR as a huge layer of complex and dynamic challenge of interacting with other REAL LIFE human beings in a social environment where one is given the choice of how one wishes to interact: the social consequences and benefits in full swing.

[Detnogetsovs]

Play something else.

P99 suck donkey balls and that's it, nothing else, nothing more.

[Dukat]

... and that's it, nothing else, nothing more.

I'm happy you've decided to stop posting. :)

[G13]

You guys have no idea what a shitstorm true FFA would really be

[Noleafclover]

Legal system of rules that amounts to FFAish tracking and killing -

1. no camping (except tracker). SSes by respected guilds result in warning/suspension
2. no camping a zone over. same shit.
3. same claims as now when a mob has spawned, first in gets it. longer time for ct since you'll be clearing fear.

get a few lawyers, that one's a toughy.

only thing is i'm not sure if zones'll crash if 4 guilds enter at the same time trying to get 15 there first.

[Kinamur1999]

All I see are a bunch of people pushing for ffa so they can train and not get banned for it.

Is that the only solution you people can think of? They have it, I want it, so I'm going to fucking take it.

Sure training, leapfrogging, racing was fun 10 years ago but I kind of thought that after 10 years people would have their fill of training.

Call it classic, call it competition but training another raid just so you can steal their mob and not have to wait a week is simply being an asshole.

[Aadill]

Legal system of rules that amounts to FFAish tracking and killing -

1. no camping (except tracker). SSes by respected guilds result in warning/suspension
2. no camping a zone over. same shit.
3. same claims as now when a mob has spawned, first in gets it. longer time for ct since you'll be clearing fear.

get a few lawyers, that one's a toughy.

only thing is i'm not sure if zones'll crash if 4 guilds enter at the same time trying to get 15 there first.

How are you possibly going to enforce claims and dictate where people may camp out?? How the hell can you tell me I can't camp in a zone? Maybe I'm camping a quest mob. Having to screenshot for a suspension for logging out in a zone is far more immature than anything occuring in the current ruleset.

What dictates a "respected guild?" Why can only they send screenshots? Why would they be able to get people suspended for being in a zone?

Claims as now include 15 in zone and specific timers. You have to have 15 in the zone to get it and there are still races to get 15 first. Nothing is different in that regard as it is now. All you did was add a no camping rule to the current ruleset, which is highly improbable that you could even enforce it in any effective manner.

[G13]

People are racing to mobs as well under the current raid rules

They are just doing in advance to stake their claims

You people can twist, scheme, and try to fluster over raid rules for years like a rubix cube. None of the solutions can change the single greatest flaw in classic EQ

5 raid mobs a week. 900 people on the server

[Theldios]

This poll is missing an option I vote for
Who fucking cares!

[Aadill]

This poll is missing an option I vote for
Who fucking cares!

I want NOTHING, THINGS ARE COOL AS THEY ARE DUDE. PLEASE JUST STOP ALREADY.

[JayDee]

WOW

Only 13 people agree with the current system (all of IB?)

[JayDee]

125 atm think the current system is not working (for later reference)

[Sadface]

Only problem with the current system is that some players will never get a chance to attain raid loot.

If you don't app to IB and suck dick for months to get considered for loot (seriously, how pitiful are apps to that guild lolz) or app DA and work your ass off to acquire dkp for months, you can only dream of an CoF or RBB etc.

[Sadface]

Me and my brother vote Rotation, if only for selfish reasons because we want raid loot too motherfuckers :p

[Kelven]

FFA solves one problem, but opens the door for loads more.

It's like breaking an arm to take your mind off a sprained finger.

Rants and flames forum will explode. Training camps even out of raids will skyrocket. 50's would run around training alts tagged to the guild they hate most. This would just invite mass chaos, and while I'll admit that sounds kinda fun for a bit...

I thought we all had enough headaches?

[Daldolma]

FFA solves one problem, but opens the door for loads more.

It's like breaking an arm to take your mind off a sprained finger.

Rants and flames forum will explode. Training camps even out of raids will skyrocket. 50's would run around training alts tagged to the guild they hate most. This would just invite mass chaos, and while I'll admit that sounds kinda fun for a bit...

I thought we all had enough headaches?

If everyone had enough headaches, why the hell did they come back to an emulator of classic-state EQ? Maybe I got lost somewhere along the way, but when I read that P99's mission was to allow players to "Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward", I thought that sounded awesome. The "headaches" were the best part of the game. If people wanted an easy and fair video game, then why the hell did they start up on a classic-era EverQuest emulator? WoW is easy and fair. Right now, EverQuest Live is easy and fair, too. So is basically every other MMORPG these days. The reason EverQuest used to be such an amazing game is because it wasn't fair, and it wasn't easy. Like life. You could sit at a raid mob for 3 months with 30 people if you wanted, but at the end of the day, if Elite_Guild_B could get 15 people there and ready to engage before you, you're shit out of luck. No whining to GMs was going to make a difference. And nobody was gonna wipe your eyes by suggesting a rotation or instanced raid zones. You want a raid mob? Get good enough and mobile enough to get there first and kill fast. IMO, that beats the hell out of the current Million Man March everyone is trying to assemble so they can AFK camp more effectively.

It sounds like there are too many people on here that simply couldn't handle the end-game on Live, and decided P99 is where they should come back and try to relive the glories they couldn't achieve. Just use the EZ server for that shit, IMO. This 'everyone should get a chance' nonsense is so out of the spirit of Classic EQ that I can't even believe a 1999 emulator is having this discussion. I don't care if IB kills every raid mob for the next 3 months, so long as they do it with skill, rather than their ability to AFK in an aggro-free nook and/or cranny of Fear/Hate.

People act like this is all one big excuse for "stealing another guild's mob", but what they seem to be missing is that there's no such thing as "another guild's mob". There wasn't in Live, there shouldn't be now. Why is having 15 AFK in a zone respected as a "camp" of a mob that isn't even spawned yet? That mob is yours when you start fighting it, and it ceases to be yours the second it ceases to be engaged. Those are the only rights any guild should have to a raid-content mob.

[Agaron]

FFA solves one problem, but opens the door for loads more.

It's like breaking an arm to take your mind off a sprained finger.

Rants and flames forum will explode. Training camps even out of raids will skyrocket. 50's would run around training alts tagged to the guild they hate most. This would just invite mass chaos, and while I'll admit that sounds kinda fun for a bit...

I thought we all had enough headaches?

Rotation is just going to turn worse than it's now, because you'll end up waiting months for a chance at a boss if there's a shit load of guilds on list. High population guilds like IB and DA aren't going to want that. Plain and simple.

It's not like people are poopsocking raid bosses for days man. People will all go in at the moment a target spawns leaving a very small frame of time for people to even attempt to train, yet alone why would someone train their own guild if they're fighting for a boss? I mean it's possible to train, but it won't be easy, and you can already train as is.

You'll have to clear more mobs, or strategize how to take down bosses differently. It won't be a cake walk, and prizes won't just be handed out to bday kids who showed up late to the party.

If anything it'll be a bonus, because GM's/developers don't have to answer to whiny complaints, and maybe we'll see some expansions come out this century. It's like throwing 2 fighting kids in a locked room, eventually one will beat the crap out of the other, or they'll learn to get along.

You can't complain about rules in rants and flames if there's none. I'd rather hear about someone getting owned, or a cool raid fight vs. a bajillion raid rule complaint threads.

Training is laughable. Hell, I've been trained. Guess what I did after? I moved. I don't go back for seconds, thirds, etc.

I watched training go on for hours... and hours in the last couple days without 1 staff member doing shit. So, lets keep that going then? Mass chaos right? Lol. Time for a change?

[rioisk]

All I see are a bunch of people pushing for ffa so they can train and not get banned for it.

Is that the only solution you people can think of? They have it, I want it, so I'm going to fucking take it.

Sure training, leapfrogging, racing was fun 10 years ago but I kind of thought that after 10 years people would have their fill of training.

Call it classic, call it competition but training another raid just so you can steal their mob and not have to wait a week is simply being an asshole.

"Not have to wait a week" Why can't you just say it? You like camping because you like the 100% guarantee of being rewarded if you sit there and do absolute 100% nothing.

[Kinamur1999]

"Not have to wait a week" Why can't you just say it? You like camping because you like the 100% guarantee of being rewarded if you sit there and do absolute 100% nothing.

I don't camp...anything. I hate camping, and the last thing I want is this 4 day poopsocking extravaganza.

FFA would be 100x better than the situation now, but that's not what I'm seeing here.

I voted for rotation, because I hate bullshit drama. When I want to raid, I want to raid not deal with trains, players purposefully crashing the zone, and just anything possible to fuck with you.

I don't want to see a system where trains are allowed because I don't like being trained, and I certainly don't want to have to train others because its "classic guild competition"

[rioisk]

If everyone had enough headaches, why the hell did they come back to an emulator of classic-state EQ? Maybe I got lost somewhere along the way, but when I read that P99's mission was to allow players to "Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward", I thought that sounded awesome. The "headaches" were the best part of the game. If people wanted an easy and fair video game, then why the hell did they start up on a classic-era EverQuest emulator? WoW is easy and fair. Right now, EverQuest Live is easy and fair, too. So is basically every other MMORPG these days. The reason EverQuest used to be such an amazing game is because it wasn't fair, and it wasn't easy. Like life. You could sit at a raid mob for 3 months with 30 people if you wanted, but at the end of the day, if Elite_Guild_B could get 15 people there and ready to engage before you, you're shit out of luck. No whining to GMs was going to make a difference. And nobody was gonna wipe your eyes by suggesting a rotation or instanced raid zones. You want a raid mob? Get good enough and mobile enough to get there first and kill fast. IMO, that beats the hell out of the current Million Man March everyone is trying to assemble so they can AFK camp more effectively.

It sounds like there are too many people on here that simply couldn't handle the end-game on Live, and decided P99 is where they should come back and try to relive the glories they couldn't achieve. Just use the EZ server for that shit, IMO. This 'everyone should get a chance' nonsense is so out of the spirit of Classic EQ that I can't even believe a 1999 emulator is having this discussion. I don't care if IB kills every raid mob for the next 3 months, so long as they do it with skill, rather than their ability to AFK in an aggro-free nook and/or cranny of Fear/Hate.

People act like this is all one big excuse for "stealing another guild's mob", but what they seem to be missing is that there's no such thing as "another guild's mob". There wasn't in Live, there shouldn't be now. Why is having 15 AFK in a zone respected as a "camp" of a mob that isn't even spawned yet? That mob is yours when you start fighting it, and it ceases to be yours the second it ceases to be engaged. Those are the only rights any guild should have to a raid-content mob.

Agreed. Especially the part about "those who couldn't make it back in P1999". Every modern MMORPG has instances or "locked encounters" where once a mob is engaged another person/group doesn't even have the possibility of taking the mob. If people WANTED THAT SYSTEM WHY ARE THEY PLAYING P1999? Why not play a game where GMs didn't have to play daddy to enforce rules that could be embedded into the design of the game.....but isn't.

Let's face it. Classic EQ was about grief. It was about headache. It was about not ever being certain that you had your hands wrapped around anything in the game. That players must rely on their quick reflexes and skill to down a mob before another person. You know what that has been reduced to in this P1999? Whining and bitching about how people aren't respecting "camp rights".

Essentially this equates players want a guarantee to be rewarded for their time invested. That is not the classic EQ experience. If you want a guarantee on time invested go play WoW where the mechanics are designed to reward time played (like to collect badges from doing instances that are no fail?).

I don't believe the bickering will stop until people are given a fair chance to seize what they want without "rules, not built into the mechanics" stopping them from doing so. FFA FFA FFA

[rioisk]

I don't camp...anything. I hate camping, and the last thing I want is this 4 day poopsocking extravaganza.

FFA would be 100x better than the situation now, but that's not what I'm seeing here.

I voted for rotation, because I hate bullshit drama. When I want to raid, I want to raid not deal with trains, players purposefully crashing the zone, and just anything possible to fuck with you.

I don't want to see a system where trains are allowed because I don't like being trained, and I certainly don't want to have to train others because its "classic guild competition"

You sir, would not last a day in 1999.

[rioisk]

I voted for rotation, because I hate bullshit drama. When I want to raid, I want to raid not deal with trains, players purposefully crashing the zone, and just anything possible to fuck with you.
"

Go play WoW - that's what it's like there.

[Allizia]

I don't believe the bickering will stop until people are given a fair chance to seize what they want without "rules, not built into the mechanics" stopping them from doing so. FFA FFA FFA

Rofl. I don't even need to go more in depth then that.

Anyway, it's just a poll, are you threatened enough that you feel the need to "OMG'z you can't HANDLE it you suck whiney sucky person you!" to anyone that does not agree with you?

[Dukat]

Before people started camping, we were racing. And it was sorta fun, we'd all do our best to assemble in the zone in the shortest amount of time. Because...that was how we'd decide who had rights to the mob. That was how we competed. We knew there were already 20 opposition logged out in the zone waiting for the signal, but hey, we wanted raid loot crazy bad so we did what we could.

So, a raid mob had popped, and I've called a bunch of people.... woke sleeping guildies, interrupted them at work, family dinners and other special moments in their lives, sent texts, calls, emails... everything. Most of 'em showed up hella quicklike, ready for some raid action. But, of course, the other team would have 15 in the zone just that much quicker than us, and all the hopes of those people I'd worked so hard to summon were shot down in minutes. It was a total anti-climax. The encounter itself was pretty easy so we wouldn't even wait to see if they wiped (they didn't). We'd log out either pissed or ambivalent about the whole experience. Not very satisfying.

I never understood why that had to be the end of it. Why couldnt we have stayed there until the last flickering hope of laying claim to a raid mob was extinguished with it's death or our own deaths? Why couldn't we just have taunted our rivals and marched up to the raid mob and started swinging like true raiders? Why couldnt we have opened a dialogue and struck some kind of deal that worked for us without worrying about what 700 other uninvolved people might think of it?

I'll tell you why we can't do these things. People are terrified of handling the competition themselves and seek to hide behind GMs and their meddling. People are terrified of losing some precious exp points, like their exp bars aren't already maxed out. And some people just want to have things they arent worthy of having. If you think that p99 is going to devolve into a hot mess where everyone delevels to 1 because of trains, you would be mistaken. According to that logic, classic servers on live would have never thrived like they did.

FFA is NOT characterized by its capacity to grief. Its about creating, enforcing, and honoring our own rules. Its also about maturity, reputation, and skills. In my opinion its a totally necessary step to facilitate the further growth and progress of the server.

[G13]

Trans was never a threat after rotation was lifted

You got rolled

[Co114p53]

FFA is NOT characterized by its capacity to grief. Its about creating, enforcing, and honoring our own rules. Its also about maturity, reputation, and skills. In my opinion its a totally necessary step to facilitate the further growth and progress of the server.

This server lacks everything you said there by pretty much everybody. it takes no skill, lack of reputation and no maturity to have 40 people poopsock 10 year old content for 5 days until a boss spawns then to zurg it.

This server is very not ready for FFA, and needs to hit rotations again because there is too many griefers, and will develop in abacab just training every guild on the server and there will be 5 million posts in rants and flames, and god knows what else.

[Brad_mo123]

Rofl. I don't even need to go more in depth then that.

Anyway, it's just a poll, are you threatened enough that you feel the need to "OMG'z you can't HANDLE it you suck whiney sucky person you!" to anyone that does not agree with you?

What are 8? lol. You remind me of a kid who rides his bike with his pants half way down his ass in my area. The obvious choice is FFA without GM intervention. This is meant to reflect a classic live server, right? Simply puy ; if your guild doesnt get to raid than someone needs to step it up and provide real compitition and if not than you dont deserve any main raid target and the loot. The loot you obtain is ment to reflect the skill of the player and with any other raid theme that wouldnt be the case, the meaning of it all is lost.

[Brad_mo123]

What are 8? lol. You remind me of a kid who rides his bike with his pants half way down his ass in my area. The obvious choice is FFA without GM intervention. This is meant to reflect a classic live server, right? Simply puy ; if your guild doesnt get to raid than someone needs to step it up and provide real compitition and if not than you dont deserve any main raid target and the loot. The loot you obtain is ment to reflect the skill of the player and with any other raid theme that wouldnt be the case, the meaning of it all is lost.

Yes im aware of the few typos as this forum prevents any editing... sad.

[Kinamur1999]

I don't have a problem with competition,

I just cna't believe that so many of you define competition as training the shit out of everyone

[Dukat]

I just cna't believe that so many of you define competition as training the shit out of everyone

The thing is, that is only one element of the competition that we can choose to use. We could also be gentlemen about it and opt for a straight DPS race.

[Daldolma]

Why are people focusing on trains? That's a very small part of what a FFA, first to engage raid policy manifests itself into. There will be trains, yes -- but at the end of the day, with no GMs pulling all the strings, training is a two way street. It's very easily done. If you train the shit out of someone else, guess what -- it's coming back. So civility does emerge. This apocalyptic scenario where every guild just repeat trains each other into oblivion doesn't, didn't, never will exist. It's counter-productive. Trains would only be used strategically, and usually denied by the person that carried them out. Just like in live. And just like in live, there will probably be one guild that does train regularly, and that guild will have a terrible reputation and be black-balled by the rest of the major guilds. In fact, that guild will probably have it the worst, as they will be getting return service from 2, 3, maybe even 4 guilds at a time. Which, again, would lead to civility. Reputation and inter-guild relationships would become much more important.

The current system sucks the soul out of end-game EQ. It's completely trivial and completely boring. It wasn't meant to be that way.

[Allizia]

What are 8? lol. You remind me of a kid who rides his bike with his pants half way down his ass in my area. The obvious choice is FFA without GM intervention. This is meant to reflect a classic live server, right? Simply puy ; if your guild doesnt get to raid than someone needs to step it up and provide real compitition and if not than you dont deserve any main raid target and the loot. The loot you obtain is ment to reflect the skill of the player and with any other raid theme that wouldnt be the case, the meaning of it all is lost.

Wut? I actually ride my bikes

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1964/14635121997654462613852.jpg

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/3186/90351225423200789138529.jpg

with my pants half up!

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/8440/img0043aa.jpg

I just can't justify giving up my life

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4885/img0011q.jpg

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4975/img0007sx.jpg

and friends

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4627/img0038k.jpg

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5910/claudia.jpg

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/5674/img0056uv.jpg

for nonsense like

http://i32.tinypic.com/9a5kj4.jpg

or people like

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yONAlBpnn-Q

but good luck with that! I quit a while back, I just haunt the forums now and then

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7440/img0021ye.jpg

[rioisk]

Why are people focusing on trains? That's a very small part of what a FFA, first to engage raid policy manifests itself into. There will be trains, yes -- but at the end of the day, with no GMs pulling all the strings, training is a two way street. It's very easily done. If you train the shit out of someone else, guess what -- it's coming back. So civility does emerge. This apocalyptic scenario where every guild just repeat trains each other into oblivion doesn't, didn't, never will exist. It's counter-productive. Trains would only be used strategically, and usually denied by the person that carried them out. Just like in live. And just like in live, there will probably be one guild that does train regularly, and that guild will have a terrible reputation and be black-balled by the rest of the major guilds. In fact, that guild will probably have it the worst, as they will be getting return service from 2, 3, maybe even 4 guilds at a time. Which, again, would lead to civility. Reputation and inter-guild relationships would become much more important.

The current system sucks the soul out of end-game EQ. It's completely trivial and completely boring. It wasn't meant to be that way.

Agreed. Two way street. Gun in each hand. Civility will emerge out of common interest. If you defect, you risk losing more in the future. Right now the guns belong in the hands of the GMs and we're enforced on how to play. We need to put the guns in the hands of the players and let them go head to head.

Just my opinion.

http://www.themartialist.com/images/fightlight02.jpg

[rioisk]

Set us free GMs

http://www.milforded.org/schools/simonlake/butterfly/setting%20free.jpg

[Bones]

Why are people focusing on trains? That's a very small part of what a FFA, first to engage raid policy manifests itself into. There will be trains, yes -- but at the end of the day, with no GMs pulling all the strings, training is a two way street. It's very easily done. If you train the shit out of someone else, guess what -- it's coming back. So civility does emerge. This apocalyptic scenario where every guild just repeat trains each other into oblivion doesn't, didn't, never will exist. It's counter-productive. Trains would only be used strategically, and usually denied by the person that carried them out. Just like in live. And just like in live, there will probably be one guild that does train regularly, and that guild will have a terrible reputation and be black-balled by the rest of the major guilds. In fact, that guild will probably have it the worst, as they will be getting return service from 2, 3, maybe even 4 guilds at a time. Which, again, would lead to civility. Reputation and inter-guild relationships would become much more important.

The current system sucks the soul out of end-game EQ. It's completely trivial and completely boring. It wasn't meant to be that way.
I almost want to sig this entire post. Well said, sir.

[Chicka]

I don't have a problem with competition,

I just cna't believe that so many of you define competition as training the shit out of everyone

That happens now, don't kid yourself. It will happen on rotations too.

[Allizia]

Don't see how first to engage can be enforced when there will be 100 players from 4 or 5 guilds standing there the second a boss spawns

[Agaron]

Don't see how first to engage can be enforced when there will be 100 players from 4 or 5 guilds standing there the second a boss spawns

There's no first to engage rule bs. You can be ks'd in ffa, so there's nothing to enforce.

[Allizia]

That happens now, don't kid yourself. It will happen on rotations too.

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single GM involvement issue the entire time we were in rotation before. There were also several joint raids and general cooperation while people were only required to play a few hours a week for raiding

[rioisk]

There's no first to engage rule bs. You can be ks'd in ffa, so there's nothing to enforce.

Indeed FFA means anything goes. No first to engage, no camps, nothing. Players figure out their own way of dealing with one another. Just like in reality. Why do you think EQ in 1999 is an immersion unmatched by the graphics and gameplay of modern mmorpgs? Why did so many return after so long.

The world doesn't restrict your reaction with it and other players. You can ruin your faction with your home city here - in EQ you pick a side and you can't even kill your own guards. You can get faction with races that start out hating you. There is a sense of severity to it all in that one must make serious decisions about the path one takes in the game. This is no different than our interactions with other players. We have factions that aren't measured in numbers in a computer system. Why can't we act on them?

[rioisk]

in EQ2 you pick a side and you can't even kill your own guards^^^^

[Hasbinbad]

This entire thread:
Tl;dr.

[mmiles8]

I'm pretty sure there wasn't a single GM involvement issue the entire time we were in rotation before. There were also several joint raids and general cooperation while people were only required to play a few hours a week for raiding

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1488&highlight=speed

When you had a rotation you cried out for FFA and no GM involvement "let the players duke it out.

You got your wish, now you want a rotation again.

The grass will perpetually be greener.

[Allizia]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1488&highlight=speed

When you had a rotation you cried out for FFA and no GM involvement "let the players duke it out.

You got your wish, now you want a rotation again.

The grass will perpetually be greener.

Where did I say that? Specific people have been screaming for FFA since before anyone was even raiding, nothing has changed there

[Allizia]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=1488&highlight=speed

When you had a rotation you cried out for FFA and no GM involvement "let the players duke it out.

You got your wish, now you want a rotation again.

The grass will perpetually be greener.

Man, thanks for bringing this up though, there are some classics buried in here and some I haven't even seen

http://project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3528

[Kelven]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13067

rotation. go.

[guineapig]

Well looks like rotation was the original solution. And it also seems to be winning every poll that's posted.

For better or worse that's what the majority seems to be in favor of.

[Humerox]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=13067

rotation. go.

Sadly, good ideas go largely ignored.