If you think US Healthcare is anything other than an embarrassment, you're delusional

[Lune]

And if you think amplifying the qualities that make our healthcare system so miserable will fix it, you're a moron. That goes for the ACA too. The healthcare system should not have a profit motive at its core.

With the tax dollars we currently spend brutalizing savages on foreign shores, we could be paying for a public healthcare system. A successful and vastly superior one, like those managed either fully or partially by the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Japan) governments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Sweden) of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Australia) nearly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany) every (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada) other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands) advanced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Italy) country. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_France)

Instead, our system is looted by insurance companies, medical associations, and their representatives in the obstructionist, fiscally irresponsible, and clinically retarded republican party, that still carries the banner of ass-backwards, confederate-rural ignorance into the 21st century.

On the other side of the aisle, a cadre of incompetent, even more fiscally irresponsible and corrupt cocksuckers called democrats serve corrupt unions and masses of uneducated, un-assimilated immigrants.

Both are responsible for various means of plundering the public funds:
-Irrational agricultural subsidies
-Corporate welfare for outsourcers and labor exploiters
-Individual welfare for the habitually unemployed
-Excessive defense spending
-Crony contract funding
-Lips firmly wrapped around Israeli cock, suction applied

Meanwhile, American citizens rob themselves of roughly twice the per capital healthcare expenditure of comparable economies, for a system that consistently under performs.

http://i.imgur.com/8otAAOp.jpg

-

http://i.imgur.com/mKFQ6Zf.jpg

Hurr durr, socialism. hurrrrrr those statistics dont count because Amurika is bigger n diffurent then every1 else. America medicine stronk

The size of our country or your misguided belief in American exceptionalism have no influence on our absolutely bloated per capita healthcare expenditures, which are most definitely not the result of simple government interference, otherwise you would see the same thing in the public systems of other nations. Even so, the cause would be our utterly corrupt, incompetent government specifically, not the concept of something being 'government run' as a whole.

http://i.imgur.com/mRiNXiR.jpg

Only in America:

...does an ambulance show up to your house and ask you: Cash or credit?

...do they remove a malignant tumor and scan it into a cash register.

...do they frantically rifle through your clothing in the emergency room looking for wealth.

If you think the free market should be anything other than a fringe, background supplement to our healthcare system, I invite you to write down the reasons why on a piece of paper. Then I want you to crumple it up, dip it in Vaseline, and slide it up your asshole. Then I want you to go to the emergency room, bend over, and watch them bill your insurance $2900 for them to stick two rubber-gloved fingers up your pooper and pull it out, while you moan in ecstasy, because you're a faggot.

[r00t]

US had best health care til Obamacare came along. We discover all the cures for shit and then other country world leaders come here to get them.

[Kagatob]

US had best health care til Obamacare came along. We discover all the cures for shit and then other country world leaders come here to get them.

Shut the fuck up and let the adults talk. Go back to fucking P99's bicycle while she's wearing an owl costume.

Lune, A+ post, thread rated 5 stars.

[r00t]

I don't believe a free market was ever a thing in regards to health care here. Companies formed monopolies/duopolies over different geographic regions. These could have been broken apart with antitrust suits instead of socialising everything. It's long proven capitalism will always produce better goods and services than socialism, hence why America had the most art, wealth, and science of any country, ever.

[r00t]

Basically instead of going the direction of a free market (the American way), the law created a forced market (mandate) of the same monopolies that already existed.

[stonez138]

I love how Root states his idiotic opinions as if they were undeniable facts yet everything Root posts is complete garbage devoid of fact or science.

[r00t]

remember when you refuted any of my points? me neither

[Abner]

US had best health care til Obamacare came along. We discover all the cures for shit and then other country world leaders come here to get them.

Preach the truth my man.

[Kagatob]

One can refute Root the same way that you can refute this guy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV4vHpqrj6E), you can't. It doesn't make what he's saying anything more than senseless noise though.

[Lune]

Preach the truth my man.

Assuming you're not just trolling like naez, you may be interested to know the statistics in my post, representing the total inferiority of the US system, are from 2007, several years before Obama's inauguration.

[r00t]

If you didn't already know that Obamacare was essentially ghostwritten by the insurance companies via lobbyists, then the botched website made by political cronies for $560,000,000 instead of a real web development company for 1/1000 the price should have been a clue.

We can also make many comparisons to Hitler's draconian T-4 health care system. It's only the beginning of a bumpy ride. Most liberals hate the bill too.

[moklianne]

You're right, most liberals wanted something closer to single payer. At this point with nothing at all being done for so long though, I think (like Obama always does) Liberals were just willing to compromise to get anything done.

[stonez138]

ROOT you really aren't worth my time but I'll go ahead and give a small dose of truth. You claim It's long proven capitalism will always produce better goods and services than socialism, hence why America had the most art, wealth, and science of any country, ever.

First of all I seriously doubt any of that is actually true especially considering there has never been a socialist country and the tremendous ammount of scientific innovation that came out of Germany in the early to mid 20th century. Secondly the only reason America was able to become the wealthiest most powerful nation in the world is because EVERY CITY IN EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALISED NATION was bombed into oblivion between 1914-45. Had nothing to do with capatalism but our convenient location half way across the fucking world.

[moklianne]

And if you think amplifying the qualities that make our healthcare system so miserable will fix it, you're a moron. That goes for the ACA too. The healthcare system should not have a profit motive at its core.



FYI, the ACA does have a provision that states that insurance companies need to spend 85% or more on care. If they don't (and this is measured), refunds to the employer are to take place. I personally know someone that this happened to. They received a letter stating that their insurance company didn't hit this marker and a refund would be issued. She never received it of course, it went to the employer, but still. Its promising (not the whole law, parts of it).

[stonez138]

Oh, and if capitalism produces such great goods then why is 90%+ of everything I see for sale says made in china?

[Lune]

naez trolls threads by firing salvos of easily composed, heavily flawed arguments into discussions about popular topics, in an effort to stir the pot and get people to become frustrated responding to him and to each other.

That alone is fine, and I'd appreciate the practice if he pulled it off in a clever or entertaining way, like HBB sometimes does. But naez is just boring,and it just ends up reading like spam. So it's best to not even respond.

[r00t]

ROOT you really aren't worth my time but I'll go ahead and give a small dose of truth. You claim

First of all I seriously doubt any of that is actually true especially considering there has never been a socialist country and the tremendous ammount of scientific innovation that came out of Germany in the early to mid 20th century. Secondly the only reason America was able to become the wealthiest most powerful nation in the world is because EVERY CITY IN EVERY OTHER INDUSTRIALISED NATION was bombed into oblivion between 1914-45. Had nothing to do with capatalism but our convenient location half way across the fucking world.

Taking all your points into consideration: Explain why West Germany was much freer and prosperous than East Germany under Stasi Socialist control? Also the collapse of the socialist USSR and the end of the Berlin wall where West Germany's non-socialist system was adopted?

Then we have Russia and China, both of which have seen tremendous in the past 10 and 50 years after rejecting Marxist thought and moving toward capitalism?

GTFO commie

[r00t]

naez trolls threads by firing salvos of easily composed, heavily flawed arguments into discussions about popular topics, in an effort to stir the pot and get people to become frustrated responding to him and to each other.

That alone is fine, and I'd appreciate the practice if he pulled it off in a clever or entertaining way, like HBB sometimes does. But naez is just boring,and it just ends up reading like spam. So it's best to not even respond.

^ Hitchens supported the NSA spying scandal to defeat terrism. So either he is a moran or doing the same troll he claims I am doing.

[r00t]

Commies be all like "CAPITALISM IS MURDER" then every communist leader from stalin to mao to pol pot etc murdered over 200 million in the past century.

[Sidelle]

Oh, and if capitalism produces such great goods then why is 90%+ of everything I see for sale says made in china?
Exactly why I don't shop at Walmart. Ever. :D

[r00t]

Oh, and if capitalism produces such great goods then why is 90%+ of everything I see for sale says made in china?

You realize that is slave labor. You are saying you'd rather be a slave?

ANyways, I was reading more on West vs. East Germany.

The foundation for the influential position held by Germany today was laid during the Wirtschaftswunder (economic miracle) of the 1950s when West Germany rose from the enormous destruction wrought by World War II to become the world's third largest economy.

Now you see after WW2, the capitalist Germany became the 3rd largest economy, and the socialist one collapsed.

Open and shut case

[nilbog]

U.S. healthcare is all fucked up.

[Maddox]

Freedom is a bitch

[Lune]

Freedom is a bitch

They've got freedom in all those other countries too, believe it or not.

[r00t]

What are their firearm laws like? Freedom comes from arms.

Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun

[r00t]

YEa looked at your list of "Free" countries. Had a good laugh.

[p99soundsok]

http://i.imgur.com/60RZvFE.jpg

[Funkutron5000]

I like that the argument against superior health care is to just plug one's ears and yell "BUT ARE FREEDOM" as loud as possible. Facts are a bitch.

[Lune]

http://i.imgur.com/ec0Txl8.jpg

FTFY and, oh look, I can, in essence, retardedly oversimplify the issue too.

[r00t]

The government does own us under universal product code/international maritime laws. Your birth certificate is being owned by the Federal Reserve and is a certificate on the stock market.

[r00t]

ALthough the Federal Reserve isnt really the government, it is a private for profit corporation, so maybe Lune is onto something

[r00t]

This is why the dollar was taken off of the gold standard, because a 1 million dollar T-Bond is marketed against your entire life's contribution in production - and thus the value of your production is what our financial system's value is based upon.

You must be 'REGISTERED' at birth, and given a 'COPY' of your 'BIRTH CERTIFICATION' - while the ORIGINAL is on file with the Department of Commerce, which has in turn issued a registry notice to the treasury department, who in turn takes that registration and certifies it's existance in the form of a T-Bond.

That is why it is said that you are a STRAW MAN - a 'DUMMY CORPORATION' liable for this country's debts.

How can I prove you are a Straw Man, or Dummy corporation, and not yourself? Look at your driver's license, Birth Certificate, or recent DMV registration, billing correspondance from a utility, court documents - anything with your official name on it.

Your name is spelled in all upper case letters, correct?

[Retti_]

Didnt read

[Lune]

Didnt read

Honestly, I don't see how you could find the time, you've got posts to make son!

http://i.imgur.com/SLg8o5e.jpg

[r00t]

Doesnt anyone want to talk about how our very lives are stock market securities?

[r00t]

I'm telling you until you understand some of the laws and symbolism right under our noses you're never going to suspect how far gone we really our. Our neck is already in the noose, will the executioner pull the lever?

Ya'll need to wake up, this is some serious stuff.

[r00t]

http://i.imgur.com/vsRM3jH.jpg

[Nuggie]

Better get ready. For the end is near friends.

[Sidelle]

This is why the dollar was taken off of the gold standard, because a 1 million dollar T-Bond is marketed against your entire life's contribution in production - and thus the value of your production is what our financial system's value is based upon.

You must be 'REGISTERED' at birth, and given a 'COPY' of your 'BIRTH CERTIFICATION' - while the ORIGINAL is on file with the Department of Commerce, which has in turn issued a registry notice to the treasury department, who in turn takes that registration and certifies it's existance in the form of a T-Bond.

That is why it is said that you are a STRAW MAN - a 'DUMMY CORPORATION' liable for this country's debts.

How can I prove you are a Straw Man, or Dummy corporation, and not yourself? Look at your driver's license, Birth Certificate, or recent DMV registration, billing correspondance from a utility, court documents - anything with your official name on it.

Your name is spelled in all upper case letters, correct?

Doesnt anyone want to talk about how our very lives are stock market securities?

I'm telling you until you understand some of the laws and symbolism right under our noses you're never going to suspect how far gone we really our. Our neck is already in the noose, will the executioner pull the lever?

Ya'll need to wake up, this is some serious stuff.

I guess I am just not getting what you're trying to say.. Part of me is like "wtf, is he crazy?". Then the other side of me is intrigued, wants to hear more, and saying "wtf, am I crazy?"

[DrKvothe]

Single payer would come out of tax revenue, and the amount you pay for your healthcare would effectively rise with your income. Despite the fact that behaviors that increase ones burden on the healthcare system are less common in high earners. I used to support single-payer, but after looking into it, I've become a big aca fan.

The ACA prevents insurers from dropping you when you're sick and allows sick people to get health insurance. That's a huge relief for a lot of people, especially in the post-bush economy when jobs (and the insurance they provide) are easily lost. But how do you keep people from just paying out of pocket until they get sick, then signing up? Individual mandate solves that nicely. You can choose not to contribute to the insurance pool, but it'll cost you an additional tax.

The Medicaid expansion provides low income women with the means to properly plan their reproduction. Previously it only kicked in once the woman became pregnant. This seeks to address the 5fold higher rate of unplanned pregnancies amongst low income women. Currently, ~50% of newborns are covered under Medicaid, an entirely unsustainable number.

The mandatory coverage of birth control and the equal cost of insurance for men and women support some ideas I believe in. First, men and women are equally complicit in the conception of a child. Second, unplanned pregnancies are a society's burden, not just a family burden. Just as I support everyone chipping in to educate your brat so that I don't have to deal with as many tards like r00t, I support everyone chipping in to keep children who won't be properly raised from being conceived. The people who would take birth control if its given to them but can't be burdened to buy it are the last people we want having children.

The employer mandate and the medical device tax should be removed from the law, the companies responsible for the website should be held financially liable and possibly criminally charged, and more efforts should be made to strengthen insurers bargaining power with hospitals, pharma companies, and medical device companies, as is seen in single-payer systems. But its a good start.

If Republicans want to prove its a bad system, they should work with democrats to make it as good as possible, rather than try to undermine it. Otherwise, they'll never be able to convincingly argue that its hopeless.

[hatelore]

Shut the fuck up and let the adults talk. Go back to fucking P99's bicycle while she's wearing an owl costume.

Lune, A+ post, thread rated 5 stars.

Funny, "let the adults talk" ... Followed by a young teen japanese cartoon figure jumping up and down like a beiber fan and shiz~ ***** say wut?

[p99soundsok]

FTFY and, oh look, I can, in essence, retardedly oversimplify the issue too.

extremely angry atheist detected

[Ahldagor]

Single payer would come out of tax revenue, and the amount you pay for your healthcare would effectively rise with your income. Despite the fact that behaviors that increase ones burden on the healthcare system are less common in high earners. I used to support single-payer, but after looking into it, I've become a big aca fan.

The ACA prevents insurers from dropping you when you're sick and allows sick people to get health insurance. That's a huge relief for a lot of people, especially in the post-bush economy when jobs (and the insurance they provide) are easily lost. But how do you keep people from just paying out of pocket until they get sick, then signing up? Individual mandate solves that nicely. You can choose not to contribute to the insurance pool, but it'll cost you an additional tax.

The Medicaid expansion provides low income women with the means to properly plan their reproduction. Previously it only kicked in once the woman became pregnant. This seeks to address the 5fold higher rate of unplanned pregnancies amongst low income women. Currently, ~50% of newborns are covered under Medicaid, an entirely unsustainable number.

The mandatory coverage of birth control and the equal cost of insurance for men and women support some ideas I believe in. First, men and women are equally complicit in the conception of a child. Second, unplanned pregnancies are a society's burden, not just a family burden. Just as I support everyone chipping in to educate your brat so that I don't have to deal with as many tards like r00t, I support everyone chipping in to keep children who won't be properly raised from being conceived. The people who would take birth control if its given to them but can't be burdened to buy it are the last people we want having children.

The employer mandate and the medical device tax should be removed from the law, the companies responsible for the website should be held financially liable and possibly criminally charged, and more efforts should be made to strengthen insurers bargaining power with hospitals, pharma companies, and medical device companies, as is seen in single-payer systems. But its a good start.

If Republicans want to prove its a bad system, they should work with democrats to make it as good as possible, rather than try to undermine it. Otherwise, they'll never be able to convincingly argue that its hopeless.

the only non-whiny or paranoid post in the thread.

[r00t]

Single payer is a bad idea and goes against every market principle. Besides, the government can't even make a website (welcome to 1999), and you want them to run the entire fucking health care system lol.

[Ahldagor]

Single payer is a bad idea and goes against every market principle. Besides, the government can't even make a website (welcome to 1999), and you want them to run the entire fucking health care system lol.

just stop, this is worse than hbb.

[r00t]

The single payer system would become a free for all frenzy that would have to eventually ration care. Canada's system proves this with the waiting lists to see a doctor. Costs would not be decreased at all, in fact they would have to be driven up to save the program from bankruptcy. Compensation for young doctors would also have to decrease, thus causing quality of care and experts to decrease as well. Medical decisions would be taken away from patients and doctors and placed into the hands of the government trying to save money. Death panels for people about to die anyway would be a no brainer.

Countries such as Canada, UK, and Sweden are actively moving away from their single payer systems for these very reasons.

[GradnerLives]

The single payer system would become a free for all frenzy that would have to eventually ration care. Canada's system proves this with the waiting lists to see a doctor. Costs would not be decreased at all, in fact they would have to be driven up to save the program from bankruptcy. Compensation for young doctors would also have to decrease, thus causing quality of care and experts to decrease as well. Medical decisions would be taken away from patients and doctors and placed into the hands of the government trying to save money. Death panels for people about to die anyway would be a no brainer.

Countries such as Canada, UK, and Sweden are actively moving away from their single payer systems for these very reasons.

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

[Langrisserx]

behaviors that increase ones burden on the healthcare system are less common in high earners.

lol yea charlie sheen a broke mother fucker right

[Langrisserx]

you can pay for it, that means u deserve it... might = right .. get money money

[Langrisserx]

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

haha gradner slaying noobs left and right

[Sidelle]

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.
I appreciate hearing your experience with the healthcare system up there. I've been trying to keep an open mind about the changes going on here in the states, although I'm still aprehensive because there are things about Obamacare that concern me. But for now all we can do is see what happens.

Also, lol @ highlighted quote above. :D

[DrKvothe]

lol yea charlie sheen a broke mother fucker right

We're talking averages here. Smoking and unhealthy living are much less abundant amongst the wealthy. Diabetes, heart disease, HIV, and cancer rates are largely dependent on these behaviors. This is about the choices people make, and your average attorney has his shit together more so than the average McDonalds employee.

[Langrisserx]

there are things about derogatory terms that you still use but pretend to be open minded? can you get healthcare right now? yes. will you be able to? yes.

any other questions, white lady???

[Langrisserx]

We're talking averages here. Smoking and unhealthy living are much less abundant amongst the wealthy. Diabetes, heart disease, HIV, and cancer rates are largely dependent on these behaviors. This is about the choices people make, and your average attorney has his shit together more so than the average McDonalds employee.

ok so nevermind there are more poor people than rich so of course anything to do with Poor people will have more numbers.

are you srs or dumb not sure

[DrKvothe]

Jesus fuck, do you not know what an average is?

[r00t]

I live in Canada, and have never had to wait more than 1 day for a doctor's appointment (never needed same day but I'm sure I could find someone) and 2 hours in an ER (most extreme example and I had a minor cut on my eye so I was de-prioritized since people needed actual immediate help. In every other case it's been less than an hour). My pediatric heart surgeon was one of the top 5 in north america and I had a hernia closed up within a week of diagnosis.

My medications are heavily subsidized to the point of insignificance, I've never spent anything on actual procedures/hospital stays and I pay less in taxes than the comparable bracket south of the border.

Stop using us as some "Socialist Deathcamp" example and look at the numbers. You basically live in Sudan compared to me. Provide statistics that prove otherwise.

Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.

The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.[55]

Dr. Brian Day was once quoted as saying "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years."[58]

[Sidelle]

there are things about derogatory terms that you still use but pretend to be open minded? can you get healthcare right now? yes. will you be able to? yes.

any other questions, white lady???
I think we're all guilty of being assholes at times. Some more often than others (hint). I do honestly try to improve myself, though, which would include opening my mind and seeing the other side of an argument. Maybe you should try it sometime.

[Langrisserx]

lol i know what an average is, do you know what a data set is? do you know what statistical analysis is besides what they taught in 4th grade math???

[Langrisserx]

i dont use terms like obamacare because i can think for myself. it has a name, ok white lady?

[Langrisserx]

can't bring yourself even to call it "Affordable Care Act" because then it makes sense right off the bat

[Langrisserx]

QUAD POST RAGE LETS DO THIS ... at least r00t is just trolling i think sidelle is srs

[Skittlez]

And if you think amplifying the qualities that make our healthcare system so miserable will fix it, you're a moron. That goes for the ACA too. The healthcare system should not have a profit motive at its core.

With the tax dollars we currently spend brutalizing savages on foreign shores, we could be paying for a public healthcare system. A successful and vastly superior one, like those managed either fully or partially by the (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Japan) governments (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Sweden) of (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Australia) nearly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Germany) every (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada) other (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_Netherlands) advanced (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Italy) country. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_France)

Instead, our system is looted by insurance companies, medical associations, and their representatives in the obstructionist, fiscally irresponsible, and clinically retarded republican party, that still carries the banner of ass-backwards, confederate-rural ignorance into the 21st century.

On the other side of the aisle, a cadre of incompetent, even more fiscally irresponsible and corrupt cocksuckers called democrats serve corrupt unions and masses of uneducated, un-assimilated immigrants.

Both are responsible for various means of plundering the public funds:
-Irrational agricultural subsidies
-Corporate welfare for outsourcers and labor exploiters
-Individual welfare for the habitually unemployed
-Excessive defense spending
-Crony contract funding
-Lips firmly wrapped around Israeli cock, suction applied

Meanwhile, American citizens rob themselves of roughly twice the per capital healthcare expenditure of comparable economies, for a system that consistently under performs.

http://i.imgur.com/8otAAOp.jpg

-

http://i.imgur.com/mKFQ6Zf.jpg



The size of our country or your misguided belief in American exceptionalism have no influence on our absolutely bloated per capita healthcare expenditures, which are most definitely not the result of simple government interference, otherwise you would see the same thing in the public systems of other nations. Even so, the cause would be our utterly corrupt, incompetent government specifically, not the concept of something being 'government run' as a whole.

http://i.imgur.com/mRiNXiR.jpg

Only in America:

...does an ambulance show up to your house and ask you: Cash or credit?

...do they remove a malignant tumor and scan it into a cash register.

...do they frantically rifle through your clothing in the emergency room looking for wealth.

If you think the free market should be anything other than a fringe, background supplement to our healthcare system, I invite you to write down the reasons why on a piece of paper. Then I want you to crumple it up, dip it in Vaseline, and slide it up your asshole. Then I want you to go to the emergency room, bend over, and watch them bill your insurance $2900 for them to stick two rubber-gloved fingers up your pooper and pull it out, while you moan in ecstasy, because you're a faggot.



Can we be best friends?

[Langrisserx]

lets be open minded while knowing nothing about the problem instead. black people are scary.

[Sidelle]

Something about you just really creeps me out. Are you supposed to be taking meds, but have been skipping it lately? Yes, I'm being serious.

[Maddox]

can't bring yourself even to call it "Affordable Care Act" because then it makes sense right off the bat

Step 1: Go quote a policy in which coverage starts in 2013.
Step 2: Go quote the same policy in which coverage starts in 2014. (when preexisting conditions can no longer be refused)
Step 3: Come back here and see if you can call it the "Affordable Care Act"

[Langrisserx]

No thanks. Thats what its called.

Anyone who uses the word Obamacare is mentally ill, while we're slinging the pyschoanalysis.

Also, all girls on the internet are guys. Your fake vagin holds no sway agatha2

[Langrisserx]

Now, stop letting insurance companies make a profit off of illness, then come back and suck on my wiener hard.

[Langrisserx]

calling people crazy is dismissive. I think you're just dumb btw.

[Maddox]

Hah.. you really got emotionally impacted by Sidelle's comment. How cute.

[Skittlez]

in b4 quad

[Langrisserx]

Govt healthcare? Tricare, medicare

Non profit management of system? Govt

Remove ins co? one less obstruction between you and your doctor.

i can see why you'd be scared, i want the pencil pushers to always decide whether me dying affects their bottom line negatively.

omg so stupid. glad u dont count.

[JayN]

http://imageshack.us/a/img10/5782/yisz.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/yisz.jpg/)

from my disabled neighbor neighbor thanks ACA

EAT A DICK TEAPARTY and NEOCONS

[Kagatob]

No thanks. Thats what its called.

Anyone who uses the word Obamacare is mentally ill, while we're slinging the pyschoanalysis.

Also, all girls on the internet are guys. Your fake vagin holds no sway agatha2

Even Barack Obama calls the affordable healthcare act "Obamacare". Obamacare is one of the default words in my android's spellchecker.

I'm not disagreeing with your other points at all,I wholeheartedly agree with them, just not that one nuance.

[Langrisserx]

bottom line? unlimited MENTAL healthcare ... you want people like me to get help or not? I'd be on this program, actually I'm in Washington State.

any more bright ideas republicans? mental health = mass shootings.

you dont want gun control you dont want healthcare ... what do you want... a big COCK

[GradnerLives]

Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.

The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.[55]

Dr. Brian Day was once quoted as saying "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years."[58]

Wikipedia copy-pasta.

I read that one earlier after I posted and didn't cherry pick. Your country didn't deliver hard numbers on the same points so there's no real comparison there. Those numbers also don't sound outrageous to me. A specialist could be anything. If it's life threatening, you're going to get to see someone quick.

Similarly a median isn't an average, and with a greater percentage of rural population you can absolutely expect the middle number to be quite high, much higher than the average by a long-shot. I'm sure the waits in nunavut and northern quebec are crazy. I'm sure they are in alaska too.

Dr Brian Day's remark is really just that, so I don't see why you chose that rather than pretty well anything else quoted on that page. Our own health minister throws down some serious disses at one point. 2-3 years for hip replacement is stupid, maybe he has like one example of this that he trots out to push some 2-tier public/private system conservative party jive. Obviously not anything close to a reliable or accurate statistic but sure, we have great vets too! My brother's cat had surgery recently and they were in and out the same day I believe.

Lower life expectancy, higher IMR and deaths with treatable conditions. Even with more doctors per person and (apparently) shorter wait times. You tell me how that's better.

[DrKvothe]

Lang, was mr sheen your data set?

Average medical costs are going to go up. That's what happens when we decide to actually allow chronically sick to receive health care. It costs money to put air bags and seatbelts in cars, but total cost isn't everything. You are better insured without health insurance under the ACA (just through the assurance that you can get insurance after you get sick) than you were with a typical policy before.

You're also going to pay more if you're a young, healthy male. You're now expected to share the cost of reproductive healthcare. I already stated the logic of this and gave my support.

Currently, the law is a framework with good intention and many obvious flaws. For example, why do we need a national website when you're only allowed to choose amongst in state insurers? Why not hire multiple companies, state by state, to set up websites? The companies that fuck up can be fired and replaced by those that successfully met their goals.

Overconsumption of healthcare is a product of over insuring a population, but the problem isn't checkups, medical implants, or drugs. People don't run out to get a pacemaker just because they're free; demand is hard capped at the actual medical needs of our population. The overconsumption problem is about unnecessary diagnostic tests. When they're free for the patient, doctors insist that more data is always better, primarily because it covers the doctors ass in court. Tort reform would greatly reduce unnecessary testing. Additionally, insurance under Obamacare doesn't make stuff free, and consumers still have a reasonable financial motive for not buying unnecessary healthcare. Republican arguments otherwise are pure fear mongering.

[Barkingturtle]

Republican arguments .... are pure fear mongering.

A succinct summation of the past fifty years.

[p99soundsok]

bottom line? unlimited MENTAL healthcare ...

any more bright ideas republicans? mental health = mass shootings.

you dont want gun control you dont want healthcare ... what do you want... a big COCK

Keep buying into the two-party system (assuming it actually represents two different approaches to government) and boasting about the few crumbs being thrown at you by these elitist insurance mega monopolies that are riding the gravy train now. You are part of the massive flock of sheep in America.

[MrSparkle001]

To put it simply, health care costs way too much. It's not something that can easily be fixed.

In August I got a small but deep cut on my finger, deep enough that I thought it might need a stitch. It was late on a Saturday so the emergency room was my only choice. I put pressure on the cut so the bleeding stopped, washed it gently under the faucet, put some Neosporin and a bandaid on it and headed out.

The doctor removed the bandaid, said it didn't need a stitch, quickly cleaned off the Neosporin with some antiseptic liquid, put bacitracin on it and wrapped it in gauze.

Cost? About $1,200 for the emergency room and $400 for the doctor. Now think about what they did to charge that much: they replaced my Neosporin and bandaid with bacitracin and gauze. Fucking crooks. I was so pissed when I got the bill before leaving that we settled on $125 total, and I think even that was too much.

$1,600 to replace my bandaid? What the fuck?! They did what I did at home for free. I just went because I thought maybe it would need a stitch - a single stitch, it was a small cut. I'm definitely in the wrong business if people can get away with ridiculous charges like that. I'll do it for half price! What a bargain right? I'll give people bandaids for half price and I'll even use brand name antibiotic ointments! $800 per patient, I'll make a fortune.

[MrSparkle001]

Oh, and about two weeks later I got a bill in the mail for almost $400 for testing or for use of some emergency room device, I don't remember exactly what it was because it used some coded jargon instead of spelling out plainly what it was for. I'm not responsible for it since I'm paid in full but holy shit they were just tacking fees on like mad, and I didn't even have tests or use anything other than the table I sat on and the pen I used to fill out the paperwork.

[radditsu]

To put it simply, health care costs way too much. It's not something that can easily be fixed.

In August I got a small but deep cut on my finger, deep enough that I thought it might need a stitch. It was late on a Saturday so the emergency room was my only choice. I put pressure on the cut so the bleeding stopped, washed it gently under the faucet, put some Neosporin and a bandaid on it and headed out.

The doctor removed the bandaid, said it didn't need a stitch, quickly cleaned off the Neosporin with some antiseptic liquid, put bacitracin on it and wrapped it in gauze.

Cost? About $1,200 for the emergency room and $400 for the doctor. Now think about what they did to charge that much: they replaced my Neosporin and bandaid with bacitracin and gauze. Fucking crooks. I was so pissed when I got the bill before leaving that we settled on $125 total, and I think even that was too much.

$1,600 to replace my bandaid? What the fuck?! They did what I did at home for free. I just went because I thought maybe it would need a stitch - a single stitch, it was a small cut. I'm definitely in the wrong business if people can get away with ridiculous charges like that. I'll do it for half price! What a bargain right? I'll give people bandaids for half price and I'll even use brand name antibiotic ointments! $800 per patient, I'll make a fortune.

My wife uses our insurance all the time. I always love seeing the costs of the bills they would charge if we were not on a plan. THEN show that they negotiated down to a next to nothing amount.

Baby doctor bill: 500 bucks
your insurance paid: 125
you paid:25(copay)
you owe:0

Why don't you just charge the 150 bucks for everyone? Why do insurance companies get to bargain, and some poor schlub who breaks his arm is fucked for the foreseeable future because A) his arm is broke, and B) no way to pay for it, so it will go to collections fucking up his credit so he can't get a bank loan for a house or a car or an idea to make him more financially stable?

I am almost sure that is how we get astronomical health care cost projections. It smells like a shitty insurance company/economist number game bullshit. I hate how actual facts are always skewed by SOMEONE playing a game on each side of the fence. There is no possible way that having my wife talk to a doctor for 20 minutes, get some weight, and take an ultrasound on a machine that is used 24/7(thus being profitable) costs 500 bucks. I am getting to the point trusting math is difficult.

And i fucking love math.

[MrSparkle001]

It's not even all on the insurance companies. Actually it sounds like they find these charges just as ridiculous and negotiate them down like I did.

I do have to say though that while $500 for an ultrasound test is ridiculous, it's not on the level of ridiculousness as my $1600+ small cut that required nothing more than a bandaid and some ointment. And that's on the hospital and doctor, not the insurance companies. They're stuck with those ridiculous bills too, they just have the power to negotiate them down (and so does a very pissed off patient who was raising his voice and growing angrier by the minute at the idea of being ripped off so much). Fuck them.

Where in this "affordable care" law does it prevent such gross overcharging?

[DrKvothe]

Read 'Bitter Pill' article in Time to better understand the ridiculousness of the prices some hospital charge.

[p99soundsok]

Why don't you just charge the 150 bucks for everyone? Why do insurance companies get to bargain, and some poor schlub who breaks his arm is fucked for the foreseeable future because A) his arm is broke, and B) no way to pay for it, so it will go to collections fucking up his credit so he can't get a bank loan for a house or a car or an idea to make him more financially stable?

I am almost sure that is how we get astronomical health care cost projections. It smells like a shitty insurance company/economist number game bullshit. I hate how actual facts are always skewed by SOMEONE playing a game on each side of the fence.


Most people don't know this but an uninsured patient can sometimes negotiate their bills to the hospital(s) they owe. This is no consolation to the terrible inflation that is involved with these gigantic CORPORATIONS that are our medical industry.

The truth is - there is no free market capitalism among those who select the pricing for medical fees. If you go to the obamacare website, you can easily see that only a select few companies were chosen to be the big winners of all this. It should also be noted that democrats and republicans alike will never resolve this. There are a few exceptions but the vast majority of our congressmen are just riding out the fucking gravy train and going in the direction of money and wind.

[radditsu]

One of the HUGE issues is that Hospitals will not post costs and average prices to normal consumers.


It's almost impossible to get a real quote on a non emergency medical procedure, such as a hip replacement.

[runlvlzero]

I won this argument like months ago in /off topic, and made a bunch of idiots (proles) mad.

Obomacare is a fuckin sham, the fact that people will still argue about it just shows how badly damaged and in need of refreshing our democracy is...

I'm not even talking about the central idea of socialized health care... That is fine and interesting to debate.

I'm talking about it's current implementation and future prospects. As well as the past, present, and future outlook of the medical industry as a whole.

Shits a bad move.

[radditsu]

http://i.imgur.com/ehFwQyp.jpg

[runlvlzero]

You know what is really stupid, that retard above me thinks I was replying to him. Like I give a fuck.

[Azure]

You know what is really stupid, that retard above me thinks I was replying to him. Like I give a fuck.

Hey Radditsu, your a retard.

[MrSparkle001]

Read 'Bitter Pill' article in Time to better understand the ridiculousness of the prices some hospital charge.

Omg I'm only a short way through it and I'm already so pissed. How is this not illegal? (it's more of a rhetorical question because I know the almighty dollar reigns supreme)

Obamacare does nothing to address the reasons why healthcare is too damned expensive in the first place. Nobody has the balls to address that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qbnv6eHKjCQ is just as true today as it was then.

[radditsu]

Hey Radditsu, your a retard.

Don't quote him because I give runlvl(zero) amount of fucks what he has to say. And its fun to passive aggressively fuck with his poor little psyche.


He's the only poster I wish straight up would kill himself.

[Azure]

Don't quote him because I give runlvl(zero) amount of fucks what he has to say. And its fun to passive aggressively fuck with his poor little psyche.


He's the only poster I wish straight up would kill himself.

I'm runlvlzero, UMAD?

LOL YOU ARE SO FUCKING OWNED AND WHIPPED HAHAHAHAH!!!!

http://i.imgur.com/jfq60rm.gif

[Sidelle]

And the multiple forum account stalking has begun...

[Azure]

Nah. I was just trollin. Also figured I might as well post a few on Azure :p Since I was already logged in.

I don't really care about Radditsu that much. The game of forumquest itself is much more entertaining.

[Barkingturtle]

I also wish runlvlzero would kill himself.

[runlvlzero]

http://i.imgur.com/OMgupJU.jpg

[mgellan]

Don't try to bullshit a bullshitter.

The median wait time in Canada to see a special physician is a little over four weeks with 89.5% waiting fewer than 90 days.[55]

Dr. Brian Day was once quoted as saying "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two-to-three years."[58]

You can't use the most extreme example you can find (hip replacements) to characterize the whole system, idiot. You're right, you're a bullshitter, cherry picking numbers to prove your asinine points. Canadian wait times are published (here (http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/waittime/) for example) and you can see for yourself urgent care specialists like cardiac surgeons are max 4 days.

My Dad went in Friday with chest pains and had a stent in on Monday. No co-payments, no invoices from the hospital, no swiping his charge card before he went in...

Some services have waiting lists, that's how you control costs. Thats also how you ensure that someone in agony from a broken hip (high acuity) gets a new one before some old bag (low acquity) with a creaky hip. Thus, a Health Care System that costs 1/2 of the American system.

Regards,
Mg (former health care data warehouse manager)

[mgellan]

$1,600 to replace my bandaid? What the fuck?! They did what I did at home for free. I just went because I thought maybe it would need a stitch - a single stitch, it was a small cut. I'm definitely in the wrong business if people can get away with ridiculous charges like that. I'll do it for half price! What a bargain right? I'll give people bandaids for half price and I'll even use brand name antibiotic ointments! $800 per patient, I'll make a fortune.

I'd be stitching myself up at this point.

Regards,
Mg

[Daldolma]

median wait time of 38 days for heart surgery

THANKS CANADA

[Daldolma]

now here's my question, how do the bevies of people that die while waiting factor into the median wait times? are they considered satisfied customers when they drop dead on a moose hunt at 24 days?

[Champion_Standing]

If you are still alive today and think that you have ever witnessed a free market in America you are delusional.

[Lune]

now here's my question, how do the bevies of people that die while waiting factor into the median wait times? are they considered satisfied customers when they drop dead on a moose hunt at 24 days?

38 days is for elective surgery, retard.

Elective (Priority 3 – within 43-180 days): These are patients who are stable but have some form of heart health problem. Their procedure may be scheduled after a wait time without undue deterioration in their health status.

What you are talking about is people at risk of dropping dead, which is:

Urgent: 2 days
Semi-urgent: 12 days

But really, keep defending our embarrassing healthcare system while the rest of the world laughs at us.

[MrSparkle001]

I'd be stitching myself up at this point.

Regards,
Mg

Yeah I'd totally go Rambo.

[Daldolma]

oh ya elective heart surgery, very popular these days

hey doc how about a boob job and a little cardiac bypass while we're at it

but don't worry i'm not literally dying as we speak so let's wait a month or two, play the odds

[MrSparkle001]

Waiting times plus high taxes on everything does change the fact that they charge too damned much.

[Maddox]

US Healthcare System: In the last 6 years I have had three kids that cost about $500 each for everything from conception to home from hospital. My wife has had gall bladder removed with a few days notice and after a 4 day stay in the hospital. I paid $200. She also had wisdom teeth taken out which cost $150 and had no real wait time other than our schedule.

The doctors were overall excellent, the facilities were good, no real wait times, and was generally easy access to health services.

All-in with costs and insurance premiums, I've paid $12K over 6 years ($2K / year for those mathematically challenged). Reasonable costs to the consumer for good access and care. Welcome to the reality of 85%+ of Americans with insurance. Not sure the numbers but there are quite a few of the remaining <15% that are covered by government subsidies before Obamacare and have/had access to preventative care and nobody was turned away for emergency care.

Health care could certainly use reform and cost controls (Tort reform!) but lets not pretend we are living in Somalia. Cost of care is one thing, but pretending that US health care system sucks is just ignorant.

[Daldolma]

US Healthcare System: In the last 6 years I have had three kids that cost about $500 each for everything from conception to home from hospital. My wife has had gall bladder removed with a few days notice and after a 4 day stay in the hospital. I paid $200. She also had wisdom teeth taken out which cost $150 and had no real wait time other than our schedule.

The doctors were overall excellent, the facilities were good, no real wait times, and was generally easy access to health services.

All-in with costs and insurance premiums, I've paid $12K over 6 years ($2K / year for those mathematically challenged). Reasonable costs to the consumer for good access and care. Welcome to the reality of 85%+ of Americans with insurance. Not sure the numbers but there are quite a few of the remaining <15% that are covered by government subsidies before Obamacare and have/had access to preventative care and nobody was turned away for emergency care.

Health care could certainly use reform and cost controls (Tort reform!) but lets not pretend we are living in Somalia. Cost of care is one thing, but pretending that US health care system sucks is just ignorant.

i approve of your general point

but tort reform is a horrible idea that just lines the pockets of big business and has no tangible impact on costs

[mgellan]

now here's my question, how do the bevies of people that die while waiting factor into the median wait times? are they considered satisfied customers when they drop dead on a moose hunt at 24 days?

You quoted ELECTIVE heart surgery "These are patients who are stable but have some form of heart health problem. Their procedure may be scheduled after a wait time without undue deterioration in their health status." Like, pick the highest number and use that to justify yourself. Nice job.

Regards,
Mg

[baalzy]

US Healthcare System: In the last 6 years I have had three kids that cost about $500 each for everything from conception to home from hospital. My wife has had gall bladder removed with a few days notice and after a 4 day stay in the hospital. I paid $200. She also had wisdom teeth taken out which cost $150 and had no real wait time other than our schedule.

The doctors were overall excellent, the facilities were good, no real wait times, and was generally easy access to health services.

All-in with costs and insurance premiums, I've paid $12K over 6 years ($2K / year for those mathematically challenged). Reasonable costs to the consumer for good access and care. Welcome to the reality of 85%+ of Americans with insurance. Not sure the numbers but there are quite a few of the remaining <15% that are covered by government subsidies before Obamacare and have/had access to preventative care and nobody was turned away for emergency care.

Health care could certainly use reform and cost controls (Tort reform!) but lets not pretend we are living in Somalia. Cost of care is one thing, but pretending that US health care system sucks is just ignorant.

How much of your premium is being paid for by your employer?

My employer pays nearly 500/month for my insurance which would hit your 12k mark in 2 years.

You're saying you're paying 166 a month to cover yourself and your wife and have laughably low out of pocket expenses.

Either your employer is paying 90% or your insurance premiums or you're full of shit.

[Maddox]

How much of your premium is being paid for by your employer?

My employer pays nearly 500/month for my insurance which would hit your 12k mark in 2 years.

You're saying you're paying 166 a month to cover yourself and your wife and have laughably low out of pocket expenses.

Either your employer is paying 90% or your insurance premiums or you're full of shit.

Technically my premium for family coverage is $175 and yes, my employer pays a good deal. Good point however, I guess for your situation, McDonalds doesn't pay as much of the overall premium for hourly line workers.

The overriding point of my post is that if you move past the wait times and general statistics that people here will twist to whatever point they want to prove, here is a real example from the past 6 years of what I've paid and my experience with the health care industry in the US. Health care services in America are high-quality, they are on the high-side of affordable for a wide majority of Americans, costs overall need genuine reform, and the figures of 2 year lower life expectancy than the top nation or somewhat higher infant mortality does not mean that health services are not excellent and that all Americans are suffering under the repressive weight of this overly burdensome healthcare system. Cost reforms vs. overall system reform.

[radditsu]

And the multiple forum account stalking has begun...

Dudes obsessed with my hot talking points. Also my dick.

[Sidelle]

Dudes obsessed with my hot talking points. Also my dick.

Don't think I missed your "Sidelle has a dick" posts recently. Maybe you think about other people's dicks too much sometimes too? Lol, so guilty... :D

P.S. Grats on incoming baby, do you know what it is yet?

[Lune]

P.S. Grats on incoming baby, do you know what it is yet?

African :(

[Sidelle]

African :(
HAHA. Omg that would just SUCK for him in the delivery room..

[radditsu]

Don't think I missed your "Sidelle has a dick" posts recently. Maybe you think about other people's dicks too much sometimes too? Lol, so guilty... :D

P.S. Grats on incoming baby, do you know what it is yet?


20 weeks. Another boy. Buy me some blue shit.

[Sidelle]

20 weeks. Another boy. Buy me some blue shit.
Grats!!!

[radditsu]

African :(


If its half pootie tang thats fine with me.

It looked something like this.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y587UlBV9jg

[radditsu]

Also ive been too busy destroying runlvlzero's psyche to work on the "Sidelle is a dude" case.

[baalzy]

Technically my premium for family coverage is $175 and yes, my employer pays a good deal. Good point however, I guess for your situation, McDonalds doesn't pay as much of the overall premium for hourly line workers.

The overriding point of my post is that if you move past the wait times and general statistics that people here will twist to whatever point they want to prove, here is a real example from the past 6 years of what I've paid and my experience with the health care industry in the US. Health care services in America are high-quality, they are on the high-side of affordable for a wide majority of Americans, costs overall need genuine reform, and the figures of 2 year lower life expectancy than the top nation or somewhat higher infant mortality does not mean that health services are not excellent and that all Americans are suffering under the repressive weight of this overly burdensome healthcare system. Cost reforms vs. overall system reform.

You're funny. You're equating a business that is paying the majority of your premium (note, my employer pays my entire premium) and saying that it is affordable when you either don't have a clue how much your insurance actually costs or are purposely hiding it because it would deflate your entire argument in an instant.

If as large of a percentage of the country as you purport had employer sponsored coverage that's as good as yours is there wouldn't even be a debate.

[Langrisserx]

The Current System is Uncomplicated

Profits Do Not Dictate Care

The Government doesn't already administer Healthcare

Mexico and Canada do not have public health care.

Access to Healthcare is bad.

The Sky is Green.





this is fun game, i see that.. makin shit up is fun when ur not the one dying

[Langrisserx]

US Healthcare System: In the last 6 years I have had three kids that cost about $500 each for everything from conception to home from hospital. My wife has had gall bladder removed with a few days notice and after a 4 day stay in the hospital. I paid $200. She also had wisdom teeth taken out which cost $150 and had no real wait time other than our schedule.

The doctors were overall excellent, the facilities were good, no real wait times, and was generally easy access to health services.

All-in with costs and insurance premiums, I've paid $12K over 6 years ($2K / year for those mathematically challenged). Reasonable costs to the consumer for good access and care. Welcome to the reality of 85%+ of Americans with insurance. Not sure the numbers but there are quite a few of the remaining <15% that are covered by government subsidies before Obamacare and have/had access to preventative care and nobody was turned away for emergency care.

Health care could certainly use reform and cost controls (Tort reform!) but lets not pretend we are living in Somalia. Cost of care is one thing, but pretending that US health care system sucks is just ignorant.

exactly. and lets not pretend that access to healthcare will ruin the country

[Langrisserx]

lol tort reform not ending for-profit care ... yea, limit how much you can be sued for but go ahead and steal from the sick... u must be a lawyer

no one is turned away from care because doctors are bound by ethics, not because of costs. the costs happen anyway, so insuring people will lower costs, instead of the current broken system that bankrupts everyone while SOMEONE makes a profit *cough insurance ceo*

unless you want to kill all the poor people by having them lie down in front of walmart on black friday, deal with reality

[Orruar]

Saying "profits shouldn't drive health care" is like saying "profits shouldn't drive food distribution". Ask the Cubans or Soviets or North Koreans how well it works to remove all profits from the market for food. Profit is a fantastic motivator as long as there aren't all kinds of other perverse manipulations in the market. In a free market, the drive for profit means containing costs and reducing price so as to make your service is affordable for as many people as possible. But we have a market where the price of health care is hidden for the vast majority of the consumers, so health care providers have no reason to contain costs. Even if you were paying them an amount that was 0 profit, we'd still spend more than any other country on health care. And that's because we have a system where all market discipline to reduce costs have been removed. And as we can see, such a system leads to higher costs than even a fully government run system.

[Langrisserx]

You can grow your own food. Its hard to operate on your own heart.

Back to the drawing board!

[Orruar]

You can grow your own food. Its hard to operate on your own heart.

Back to the drawing board!

lol, is that what you consider to be a logical argument?

[Langrisserx]

about as logical as comparing food distribution to health care while implying that America will become a ghetto ..

you use the term Soviets though so i guess you're still fightin them russians? FOR KING AND COUNTRY!!!

stay in school brew

[Langrisserx]

Profit is a good thing in a business. North Koreans are starving. = I can't have healthcare?

Healthcare shouldn't be a business.

Doctors don't treat you because they get paid. They take an oath. I doubt you even believe your own arguments because they are so .... far fetched and based on total opinion... the costs are hidden so how do you know it will be more??? LOL gawd

[Langrisserx]

Cowards, the lot of you. Afraid of what someone tells you might happen, that can't happen.

Cowardice.

[Maddox]

According to Gallup polls this month:

69% of Americans rate their personal healthcare coverage as excellent/good.
59% of Americans are satisfied with the total cost paid for healthcare
80% of Americans rate the quality of care as excellent/good

Bottom Line:
"Americans remain generally positive about the quality of healthcare they personally receive, their healthcare coverage, and what they pay for healthcare".

As I've mentioned before... Health care costs need reform, quality can be improved, but pretending that we are in an extreme health care crisis is absurd.

Langrisserx, you are an idiot. Your ability to add substantive content to this post has been impressive. Without your quad posting, shiny-object, stream of consciousness thoughts, someone may have been able to make a good argument for healthcare.

Then again, this is RnF... My expectations are probably too high.

[Langrisserx]

Yea, someone on a message board is gonna sort this out. Ok Hero.

I'm far from an idiot :) but we both argue what over what other people should do with their lives, so ill concede the point if you admit to sharing my company in the idiotbox.

I didn't say we were in a crisis. I said anyone who is against healthcare for everyone is a coward, and that all the arguments against are spurious and regurgitated.

You must be high, tis true

[Langrisserx]

When it comes down to it, people are actively against improving their own situation.

its bizarre but it happens. the rest of us will help you on your way to freedom.

[Langrisserx]

People always get healthcare. Thats not the issue. Its the costs that are profit oriented that CAN be cut and not doing so, and arguing against your own interests, is wierd... maybe ur mentally ill, but hey we'll cover that soon

anyone who doesnt see this is more retarded than me

[Langrisserx]

id rather spam the truth then let the idiots spam the lies. you're welcome.

[Kagatob]

According to Gallup polls this month:

69% of Americans rate their personal healthcare coverage as excellent/good.
59% of Americans are satisfied with the total cost paid for healthcare
80% of Americans rate the quality of care as excellent/good

Bottom Line:
"Americans remain generally positive about the quality of healthcare they personally receive, their healthcare coverage, and what they pay for healthcare".

Bottom line:
Americans are idiots and this isn't news, just because people are satisfied with their healthcare doesn't mean it's good. It simply means they buy into the propaganda they are fed and think Europe/Canada is somehow worse off than the US is when the fact remains, the only country we beat in healthcare currently is Haiti.

[Langrisserx]

heheh ^

careful kag you might get locked in the idiot box for speaking the truth...

truth is, no one here will have to lift a god damn finger if the act stays.... the waste is already wanton and still the system is there.

why? because there is plenty for all, and to not see that is disingenuous. its not communism or socialism, its just enough with the BS already.

lies repeated become truth, truth repeated becomes ignored?

kag at least uses his brain

[Langrisserx]

What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
I learned that Washington never told a lie.
I learned that soldiers seldom die.
I learned that everybody's free.
And that's what the teacher said to me.
That's what I learned in school today.
That's what I learned in school.

What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
I learned that policemen are my friends.
I learned that justice never ends.
I learned that murderers die for their crimes.
Even if we make a mistake sometimes.
That's what I learned in school today.
That's what I learned in school.

What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
I learned our government must be strong.
It's always right and never wrong.
Our leaders are the finest men.
And we elect them again and again.
That's what I learned in school today.
That's what I learned in school.

What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
What did you learn in school today,
Dear little boy of mine?
I learned that war is not so bad.
I learned of the great ones we have had.
We fought in Germany and in France.
And some day I might get my chance.
That's what I learned in school today.
That's what I learned in school.

[Gaffin 3.0]

meeegggaaaaaaaaaaa post by hurb lately must be in a wheelchair now

[Langrisserx]

hows dat ban? why you even here lol

calm down children you will get to be indentured to your debt, dont worry

[Maddox]

meeegggaaaaaaaaaaa post by hurb lately must be in a wheelchair now

[Langrisserx]

sadly im completely able bodied and this is how i spend my time.

im in good company.

[Gaffin 3.0]

sadly im completely able bodied and this is how i spend my time.

im in good company.

unemployed and timed by your so called gf aka your mom on a elf simulator, your guild name is terrible and you edit pics and sigs like its your life. go outside

[radditsu]

Gaffin your bitch sig is weird

[mtb tripper]

majority either unemployed for more than a year or black

[mtb tripper]

unemployed and timed by your so called gf aka your mom on a elf simulator, your guild name is terrible and you edit pics and sigs like its your life. go outside

id like to know who that is in your gif

[Langrisserx]

id like to know who that is in your gif

Charlie Sweets.

gaffin you so mad, it sad. u bad. just took a huge shit that looked like ur mom

[Langrisserx]

^^ bitch nasty btw good taste gaffin... horse face whores

[runlvlzero]

http://oi39.tinypic.com/281txs8.jpg

It's a trap.

[Ahldagor]

that ripple on the top of her ass, my god

[runlvlzero]

I'de suck her cock while she twerked all over my face.

[Ahldagor]

swallow?

[runlvlzero]

swallow?

Always, I wouldn't blow people I wouldn't be willing to swallow. Standards y'know.

[Langrisserx]

cheers to that

[Ahldagor]

good lad right there

[mtb tripper]

I'de suck her cock while she twerked all over my face.

do not tell me that chick has a dick

[Ahldagor]

she wields no wood
http://fapdu.com/charlie-sweets

[Gaffin 3.0]

no, and fuck off Hurb

[Langrisserx]

lol so brow beat he can't even rustle up a response....

remember Gaffin,

ABORTION HURTS


























.... less than childbirth.


A message too late, for your Mother, in the past.

[Langrisserx]

you just wake up little darlin? will give u a sec to gather urself

[mtb tripper]

does charlie sweets do porn?

[Langrisserx]

http://i.imgur.com/9XDLD0H.jpg
http://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/rice_krinkles.jpg?w=610

[Langrisserx]

LOL HIGH ELF

[mtb tripper]

no pun tended i has no kittens

[runlvlzero]

she wields no wood
http://fapdu.com/charlie-sweets

You ruined it... it was perfect. Hehehehe. Anyway she's fine anyway :p

Also Hurb wins thread for posting non-conforimist-junky-hipster-pot and EQ CDs.

Which on the internet is tantamount to saying "Oh yeah I smoked some weed 20 yrs ago with my buddies"

[Langrisserx]

lol 20 years ago i was 10! im a true loser wasting my ever declining potential while joking about it and secretly shedding a single tear

[Langrisserx]

ps legalize it, and we can end this whole healthcare debate... the complete amino acid nutrition from hemp seeds, the textiles and goods you can make to wear, use for science (hemp can be used to make graphene which is the shiznit these days)...

so sad all this debate over a non issue!!!! why is pot illegal morans

[runlvlzero]

ps legalize it, and we can end this whole healthcare debate... the complete amino acid nutrition from hemp seeds, the textiles and goods you can make to wear, use for science (hemp can be used to make graphene which is the shiznit these days)...

so sad all this debate over a non issue!!!! why is pot illegal morans

Yeah dood, I don't need a government telling me what I can and can't do with the chemicals nature provides, even if we want to make our own pharmaceuticals...

I wouldn't mind a bit of regulation/risk/reward for pill makers, but they are safely ensconced both financially and legally in our governments warm embrace.

Private medicine is evil. Institutionalized shit medicine bad.

[JayN]

ps legalize it, and we can end this whole healthcare debate... the complete amino acid nutrition from hemp seeds, the textiles and goods you can make to wear, use for science (hemp can be used to make graphene which is the shiznit these days)...

so sad all this debate over a non issue!!!! why is pot illegal morans

But then the zionist warlords economies would collapse and no longer b so powaful; sTUPID BROWNS, FOR ZION *rata tat tat*

[Langrisserx]

now we're getting somewhere. i can no longer participate in this discussion.

[runlvlzero]

^some sarcasim, really people should just take it up with their doctors/nurses/medicine vendors when people die, and not involve massive insurance companies and industrial age protection racket (Soon to be information age with the NSA on the case)

[runlvlzero]

But then the zionist warlords economies would collapse and no longer b so powaful; sTUPID BROWNS, FOR ZION *rata tat tat*

hurpderup

[JayN]

ADERP*

[Gaffin 3.0]

you just wake up little darlin? will give u a sec to gather urself

No your just so cripple and mindblowing cringeworthy I dont even care to your responses. Anyone with a brain can tell that just by looking at your sig and uploaded pictures of eq cd's with Mid-Grade Pot on them.

[Langrisserx]

naw naw

[stonez138]

US Healthcare: My wife was born with diabetes. I had a job with insurance that wouldn't cover ANY of her doctor visits or medical bills because just about every health problem she had could be said to be related to her diabetes. Any time I went to the doctor I recieved a letter from the insurance company saying they believed I was being treated for a pre-existing condition (it never was) and they weren't paying untill I sent them documents or information that I didn't have or didn't exist. So I quit that job got a crappier one and now my wife qualifies for medicaid!

If I hadn't quit that job my wife would be blind right now. I tried doing "the right" thing...work hard....pay for insurance....take care of my family etc etc

But there was not even 1 doctors visit that my insurance ever agreed to cover without at least attempting to deny me first. Not one fucking time!

[DrKvothe]

Necroing this thread to celebrate it being front page again.

[Barkingturtle]

US Healthcare: My wife was born with diabetes. I had a job with insurance that wouldn't cover ANY of her doctor visits or medical bills because just about every health problem she had could be said to be related to her diabetes. Any time I went to the doctor I recieved a letter from the insurance company saying they believed I was being treated for a pre-existing condition (it never was) and they weren't paying untill I sent them documents or information that I didn't have or didn't exist. So I quit that job got a crappier one and now my wife qualifies for medicaid!

If I hadn't quit that job my wife would be blind right now. I tried doing "the right" thing...work hard....pay for insurance....take care of my family etc etc

But there was not even 1 doctors visit that my insurance ever agreed to cover without at least attempting to deny me first. Not one fucking time!

Fat wife lol.

[Sidelle]

Type I is different, isn't it? I can't remember but I have a cousin who has it and she has a hard time keeping weight on.

[Barkingturtle]

Skinny cousin lol.

[Sidelle]

Rofl.

[Langrisserx]

^ look who's back from vacation.. must be nice. filthy rich american.

[Sidelle]

Quit stalking my posts, freak. Not interested so quit yanking my ponytail like we're in 3rd grade. Yeah, that's how you come across. Now fuck off and have a nice day.

[radditsu]

I dated a type 1 for a year. She was always rail thin. Most type 1's i've ever met/known have been really skinny.


Dynamite Puss. Like a vice grip.


The anti Sidelle.