current raid rules...

[Beau]

Posted by Bumamgar
Ektar tried to impose some additional rules on the situation, and I promptly ignored him. I'm not against working within an additional set of player created rules, but no one handed me a rulebook when I formed WI and started raiding, and waiting till I'm running a raid under a 30 minute timer at 8:30 in the morning on a Monday to inform me of these "extra" rules and expecting me to honor them sight unseen and back down from a mob I've just spent 5 days camping is ludicrous. I'm sure I'll be involved in further discussions with the other raiding guilds on this server and come to an agreement, but springing it as a surprise mid-raid is pretty lame, imho. It was well known that WI was camping Naggy, and there was plenty of time for Ektar to send me a tell during that time to make sure I was aware of whatever additional rules beyond the official GM created rules I was going to be expected to know about and adhere to.

The last thread was locked but I think it goes without saying , that it is not Ektar's, nor anyone else's responsibility to make sure you know the raid rules. As a guild leader for a raiding guild, it is entirely on you to make sure you know that stuff before hand. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.

Here you go, for next time. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8150

And as far as the "Additional rules"
If two raid forces of 15 people remain in the zone of a raid npc with the intent of camping the spawn the first raid force with the 15 minimum will have rights to the first attempt provided they meet the roll call from the second raid force upon the actual spawn. A roll call will be made in shout by the raid leader of the second raid present with 15 people. The raid force who was there first is then REQUIRED to have at least 15 members reply in shout with “present” within 60 seconds. If the raid force that was there first fails to have 15 people reply within 60 seconds, the attempt will be awarded to the raid force who was there second. Once the 60 seconds has expired ,the second raid force will also have 60 seconds to shout that they are present in order to confirm claim. In order to maintain “being there first” during a camp, 15 members must remain in the zone. At any point of that number goes below 15, then first shot would change to the raid force who is present with 15. A roll call is only to be used if there is more than one raid force in a zone and then a raid mob spawns.

[Skope]

You, WI, failed the roll call and still got the nagafen rights, yet ANOTHER reason why these dumbass rules dont work. And I hope the GMs would do much as they have done when other guilds have broken the same rules.

[Atennu]

Want a REAL suggestion. Let any guild call a roll call at ANY given point in the cycle to another guilds raid force. This roll call may only happen once every 2 hours, and is to be timestamped each time. If the guild who loses that roll call wishes to continue to try and camp the mob, they have to wait 1 hour to re-roll call the first guild.

24 ACTIVE People to call roll call. 24 ACTIVE to respond. 60 second window. Why 24 people? 4 groups should be enough to kill any target, having less could produce problems for certain fights. Rather then have different rules for different zones, make it all the maximum.

Doing so will enable ANY raid guild to walk in any zone, call for roll, and have the ability to sweep the camp away from them. It will discourage camping for long periods of time, because who wants to have 24 active people on all the time? Right now i bet everytime a mob spawns at 2-7 in the morning; less then 8 people are online at that time. Batphones, Twitters (lulz) whatever is the method to summoning a raid force is what gets everyones attention.

Now. If these rules are broken I think there needs to be a harsh punishment. Not a ban - that's too easy. If IB took a mob when it was not won by them via rollcall - then IB is out of any raid target for an entire week.

Take it as you will, but i think this is a solid system and i would like to thank Kira (Wrei) for bringing it up.

[Chicka]

On top of that, given your attitude, I wish we'd rolled your asses instead of letting you get a 30 min timer.

[Chicka]

24 ACTIVE People to call roll call. 24 ACTIVE to respond. 60 second window. Why 24 people?

Sorry but that just won't fly. Ib did Inny with 19 people last week, yet we must have 24 in zone to have claim?

[Skope]

Somehow the argument of "I didn't know these were the rules" just doesn't seem to fly.

Either way, you guys shouldn't have called the 30 minute timer at all and simply taken naggy when they failed the roll call.

[G13]

Sorry but that just won't fly. Ib did Inny with 19 people last week, yet we must have 24 in zone to have claim?

19 people + how many hasted/charmed planar mobs

[Bones]

Want a REAL suggestion. Let any guild call a roll call at ANY given point in the cycle to another guilds raid force. This roll call may only happen once every 2 hours, and is to be timestamped each time. If the guild who loses that roll call wishes to continue to try and camp the mob, they have to wait 1 hour to re-roll call the first guild.
Not a bad idea at all.

[fastboy21]

Rules are rules. It doesn't matter how many days WI sits there, if they fail the roll call (a rule I personally think is crap, btw) then they lose the mob if the other guild can make the roll call.

What is so stupid is that WI didn't get steam rolled even when they failed the roll call, and yet their leadership is whining. The people you are dealing with aren't carebears and, sadly for the wI membership, I think you can expect a very different reaction from now on with IB due to your whine-fest.

The rules have published on this forum so that any player can read them. There are level 1 new players running around that are more familiar with the rules apparently than the WI leadership.

The raid rules on this server are just not good. The players are responsible for this, not the Devs. Change the rules!

[Chicka]

19 people + how many hasted/charmed planar mobs

Does it matter? But IIRC, none.

[G13]

Does it matter? But IIRC, none.

Yea it matters because that's a broken mechanic of this server

[Koota]

Charming planar mobs and hasting them is a broken mechanic?

[Aadill]

I believe the main complaint is that charm was originally so overpowered that it was trivial. Nowadays mobs will still break charm and it's bad if it happens in the middle of a fight.

[Loke]

Does it matter? But IIRC, none.

:rolleyes:

[Bumamgar]

Rules are rules. It doesn't matter how many days WI sits there, if they fail the roll call (a rule I personally think is crap, btw) then they lose the mob if the other guild can make the roll call.

What is so stupid is that WI didn't get steam rolled even when they failed the roll call, and yet their leadership is whining. The people you are dealing with aren't carebears and, sadly for the wI membership, I think you can expect a very different reaction from now on with IB due to your whine-fest.

The rules have published on this forum so that any player can read them. There are level 1 new players running around that are more familiar with the rules apparently than the WI leadership.

The raid rules on this server are just not good. The players are responsible for this, not the Devs. Change the rules!
What the fuck is this bullshit drivel?

I am, and always have been, fully aware of the SERVER raid rules as mandated by his holiness Nilbog. That is my ONLY obligation as a player on this server. PERIOD.

I have not whined in any place anywhere on any of these threads. I have thanked IB for adhering to the SERVER rules and not using player created rules as an excuse to violate server rules and steamroll us. I have shown no attitude towards IB other than appreciation.

As I've stated elsewhere, now that I am aware of some player created rules, I will read them. I may or may not agree to abide by them, depending on what they say.

Yes, this post shows attitude.

Skope: now that I know you are Kibober, it explains so much. Did you enjoy chilling on the ledge with us for the last few days? I guess you were hanging out hoping to see us fail... Sorry to disappoint!

[Skope]

You failed the way i knew you'd fail, hence why i was there. I knew you wouldn't meet the roll call and you didn't, and now that you understand that you probably never will you're now contemplating whether or not you "agree" with what everyone else apparently agrees with, including the GMs.

Would you have seen a divinity force when naggy popped if IB wasn't there? Yes.

Would you have been gifted naggy after failing a roll call? You've gotta be kidding yourself...

[Skope]

I'd like to add in the fact that Bumamgar sees his guild fit in developing a new raid rule system by speaking with IB and DA but apparently doesn't seem to know the rules himself.

Honestly dude, quit provoking me in RnF. I provoked you in general, i won't deny it, but you're here doing the exact thing you were accusing me of except I actually have a valid case whereas yours is playing the dumb-card.

[Loke]

I'd like to add in the fact that Bumamgar sees his guild fit in developing a new raid rule system by speaking with IB and DA but apparently doesn't seem to know the rules himself.


To my knowledge DA has not been in any serious discussions with IB or WI about new raid rules.

[Skope]

It's been outted, Loke. whether you know it or not it happened.

[Loke]

It's been outted, Loke. whether you know it or not it happened.

Considering I'm an officer of DA and probably the person who handles DA's affairs with other guilds the most - I think I would know if we were creating a new set of rules. There have been ideas thrown around in casual conversation, but DA has not been a part of anything more than that.

[Skope]

Loke, Bumamgar outted in another thread that Wi/DA/IB had negotiations and proposed a raiding rules alternative to the current ones to the GMs and completely bypassed other guilds in the process. If you weren't involved then someone clearly was, or someone was lying to us about the entire thing.

[Aadill]

Considering I'm an officer of DA and probably the person who handles DA's affairs with other guilds the most - I think I would know if we were creating a new set of rules. There have been ideas thrown around in casual conversation, but DA has not been a part of anything more than that.

Yeah not really sure where these talks are taking place. As another officer in DA I can attest to the fact that casual conversation has indeed taken place amongst various guild officers but no official "summit" has been scheduled in which they can be discussed in an official capacity.

[Kole1]

You failed the way i knew you'd fail, hence why i was there. I knew you wouldn't meet the roll call and you didn't, and now that you understand that you probably never will you're now contemplating whether or not you "agree" with what everyone else apparently agrees with, including the GMs.

Would you have seen a divinity force when naggy popped if IB wasn't there? Yes.

Would you have been gifted naggy after failing a roll call? You've gotta be kidding yourself...


So you knew we'd allegedly fail due to a technicality and you could swoop in.

Question Skope, do you agree with the 60 second rule? Because from my perspective, this is a pointless rule. You already give a guild, another guild, a guild who has been camping a mob for days 30 minutes. Thats all well and good, but wait, if 15 dont tell you, on command, that 15 of them are here and present, then they lose the mob too. Despite being un-afk and running around and buffing and taking last minute shits and pisses and putting out their babies that are on fire, because they didnt WHEN COMMANDED TELL YOU THEY WERE PRESENT, they have to step aside. Who came up with this rule, so I can tell them to their face they are an idiot.

There are things in the legal community that address such "de minimis" slip-ups. They are almost always forgiven. In this case, the mob was engaged within 30 minutes, and 15 people said present, yet not within the allotted time. The fight was judged on its merits, and WI won. They obviously had more than 15 un-afk, so what was the point of the roll call rule again? There's also something called getting "two bites at the apple". Generally frowned upon and never given. This is a 2nd bite at the apple. Its pointless.

If you miss a calendar call in court, your case is dismissed, generally. But if you are late, the court will often give you a break. Because you aren't a douche and they arent a douche. Its something called fairness. You apparently have no concept of fairness, unless MAYBE you felt a twinge of fairness and didn't roll because you wanted to be fair. All humans feel fairness.

But they also feel greed. and greed is wanting your cloak of flames so bad you can taste it. you can taste it so bad you could down all the "presents" to make sure there are less than 15, so you can say AHA GOTCHA BITCH ..NOW LEAVE. Well. thats a lame rule. A super lame rule. Made for sore losers who want their one last shot to make people who earned the camp leave.

Also, patting yourself on the back for keeping Divinity out of the zone, a bit of a presumption isnt it?

Roll call is pointless.

P.S. gratz Skope on your cloak of flames.

I mean, Emoqq.

[Wrei]

Why bother talking to DA at all? Isn't you MO about "we look out for our guild first and fuck the rest". So anything that isn't A. promote pooping, B. some form of rotation in which you get a larger share, you will all veto. It's really pointless. You are quite correct it is your choice as a guild to be retarded but don't come here and claim that you got the server's best interest at heart. DA is about DA, if you could sell your mom for a CoF you would.. and let's make this clear, I am NOT criticizing your attitude there, it's how you perceive at being competitive. What I am saying however is that just own up to it and stop posting drivel about wanting to find solutions... cause your not, and you won't unless it benefits DA.

[Skope]

The rule was imposed to have people poopsockers, or campers, not sit on a spawn for a large amount of time and be given the benefit of the doubt that they're there. A raid force should remain active, even when they're sitting there for days on end, and at the least 15 of them should be active. I was there for quite a while, your numbers fluctuated from 36-24 people, and at the time the roll call was shouted by Ektar your guild was already on ramp buffing and prepping and somehow still missed the roll call in that minute (assuming you're WI, because everyone else was well aware of how that goes down). You had at least 22 people who were active during that and still somehow managed not to type these words: /shout present.

Should you be penalized for it even though there were 22+ people who clearly were there? Yes. Why? Because others do as well and there's actual a purposeful reason they're there.

You asked why the rule is there and it's to prevent poopsocking from happening in the first place. DA and IB abide by the same exact rules, you're no exception.

[Loke]

Wrei, I doubt many guilds are going to agree to a deal that leaves them worse off than they were before - IB included. DA is my guild, and yes, I place the interests of my guild ahead of those of other guilds. I wouldn't be a good member if I didn't. As far as the notion that talking to DA is pointless - I think you're a bit behind the times. For the past couple weeks, both guilds have done an excellent job at communicating - and the results are noticable. Hell, even the GMs have noticed that.

[Starklen]

So you knew we'd allegedly fail due to a technicality and you could swoop in.

Question Skope, do you agree with the 60 second rule? Because from my perspective, this is a pointless rule. You already give a guild, another guild, a guild who has been camping a mob for days 30 minutes. Thats all well and good, but wait, if 15 dont tell you, on command, that 15 of them are here and present, then they lose the mob too. Despite being un-afk and running around and buffing and taking last minute shits and pisses and putting out their babies that are on fire, because they didnt WHEN COMMANDED TELL YOU THEY WERE PRESENT, they have to step aside. Who came up with this rule, so I can tell them to their face they are an idiot.

There are things in the legal community that address such "de minimis" slip-ups. They are almost always forgiven. In this case, the mob was engaged within 30 minutes, and 15 people said present, yet not within the allotted time. The fight was judged on its merits, and WI won. They obviously had more than 15 un-afk, so what was the point of the roll call rule again? There's also something called getting "two bites at the apple". Generally frowned upon and never given. This is a 2nd bite at the apple. Its pointless.

If you miss a calendar call in court, your case is dismissed, generally. But if you are late, the court will often give you a break. Because you aren't a douche and they arent a douche. Its something called fairness. You apparently have no concept of fairness, unless MAYBE you felt a twinge of fairness and didn't roll because you wanted to be fair. All humans feel fairness.

But they also feel greed. and greed is wanting your cloak of flames so bad you can taste it. you can taste it so bad you could down all the "presents" to make sure there are less than 15, so you can say AHA GOTCHA BITCH ..NOW LEAVE. Well. thats a lame rule. A super lame rule. Made for sore losers who want their one last shot to make people who earned the camp leave.

Also, patting yourself on the back for keeping Divinity out of the zone, a bit of a presumption isnt it?

Roll call is pointless.

P.S. gratz Skope on your cloak of flames.

I mean, Emoqq.

Hey dipshit, the rules have been up on these boards for months. It is no one's job but your own to read them. I love how you attempted to answer the roll call and failed, only to backpedal and call the rule unfair or refuse to acknowledge it. Btw, no one gives a shit about your legal background.

[Spud]

Yeah not really sure where these talks are taking place. As another officer in DA I can attest to the fact that casual conversation has indeed taken place amongst various guild officers but no official "summit" has been scheduled in which they can be discussed in an official capacity.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=102811&postcount=179

well according to bumamgar you guys have already "worked together to agree on a raid-rule proposal and sent it to Nilbog" (without including us!)


So you knew we'd allegedly fail due to a technicality and you could swoop in.

Question Skope, do you agree with the 60 second rule? Because from my perspective, this is a pointless rule. You already give a guild, another guild, a guild who has been camping a mob for days 30 minutes. Thats all well and good, but wait, if 15 dont tell you, on command, that 15 of them are here and present, then they lose the mob too. Despite being un-afk and running around and buffing and taking last minute shits and pisses and putting out their babies that are on fire, because they didnt WHEN COMMANDED TELL YOU THEY WERE PRESENT, they have to step aside. Who came up with this rule, so I can tell them to their face they are an idiot.

There are things in the legal community that address such "de minimis" slip-ups. They are almost always forgiven. In this case, the mob was engaged within 30 minutes, and 15 people said present, yet not within the allotted time. The fight was judged on its merits, and WI won. They obviously had more than 15 un-afk, so what was the point of the roll call rule again? There's also something called getting "two bites at the apple". Generally frowned upon and never given. This is a 2nd bite at the apple. Its pointless.

If you miss a calendar call in court, your case is dismissed, generally. But if you are late, the court will often give you a break. Because you aren't a douche and they arent a douche. Its something called fairness. You apparently have no concept of fairness, unless MAYBE you felt a twinge of fairness and didn't roll because you wanted to be fair. All humans feel fairness.

But they also feel greed. and greed is wanting your cloak of flames so bad you can taste it. you can taste it so bad you could down all the "presents" to make sure there are less than 15, so you can say AHA GOTCHA BITCH ..NOW LEAVE. Well. thats a lame rule. A super lame rule. Made for sore losers who want their one last shot to make people who earned the camp leave.

Also, patting yourself on the back for keeping Divinity out of the zone, a bit of a presumption isnt it?

Roll call is pointless.

P.S. gratz Skope on your cloak of flames.

I mean, Emoqq.


its not pointless or a technicality. its a way to ensure you actually have 15 people PRESENT and not afk. Otherwise any guild could just leave 15 of chars logged in Perma and another 15 logged in Solb and have all the naggys and Voxs they wanted forever and ever.

And its not that not that hard to type "/shout present"

Under the current rules you have every right to camp a mob just like we have every right to do a roll call. you think its dumb? so do we and thats why we want rule chages.

ANYWAY... Politics aside, grats on your first dragon

[Sizzle]

DA is about DA, if you could sell your mom for a CoF you would..

This game is serious business it looks like.

[guineapig]

Question Skope, do you agree with the 60 second rule? Because from my perspective, this is a pointless rule. You already give a guild, another guild, a guild who has been camping a mob for days 30 minutes. Thats all well and good, but wait, if 15 dont tell you, on command, that 15 of them are here and present, then they lose the mob too. Despite being un-afk and running around and buffing and taking last minute shits and pisses and putting out their babies that are on fire, because they didnt WHEN COMMANDED TELL YOU THEY WERE PRESENT, they have to step aside. Who came up with this rule, so I can tell them to their face they are an idiot.


All the other raid guild agreed to this rule. As stated before, if you aren't active you are not entitled to anything. Keep 15 players active. If you can't then step aside. No free hand outs just because you zoned in to Hate of Fear 3 days ago.

[Ihealyou]

Do you guys even enjoy playing anymore?

[Aadill]

Why bother talking to DA at all? Isn't you MO about "we look out for our guild first and fuck the rest". So anything that isn't A. promote pooping, B. some form of rotation in which you get a larger share, you will all veto. It's really pointless. You are quite correct it is your choice as a guild to be retarded but don't come here and claim that you got the server's best interest at heart. DA is about DA, if you could sell your mom for a CoF you would.. and let's make this clear, I am NOT criticizing your attitude there, it's how you perceive at being competitive. What I am saying however is that just own up to it and stop posting drivel about wanting to find solutions... cause your not, and you won't unless it benefits DA.

Hi, Wrei! I recognize this as the Rants and Flames forum and you are most welcome to voice your opinion. However, you may be interested to know that you are welcome to contact the officers of DA at any time, as other officers in your guild have done with great success and civility!

I also challenge you to make a claim that does not leave your guild at the top of your list in terms of personal interests related to the Project 1999 Everquest Classic Game Experience. Please post it here so I can uphold you to your altruistic nature in the future.

In terms of wanting to find a proper solution, of course we all want one! We all want solutions like rotations that work or FFA rules that don't promote large amounts of GM intervention due to players *not* having their fellow gamepal's best interests in mind, or even camping sessions that result in profitable clears of planes or sellable-items from things such as giants. Whatever works best and is agreed upon will become the rules. As of thus far, the rules are set and being followed to the tee!

Kole1: As Skope mentioned, yes, the roll call rule is in effect to prevent you from sitting on a spawn unaware of it's existence while a raid force lumbers on over to kill the target. It's a last-ditch style effort to sway the result of the claim of a mob. /shout present takes 5 seconds to type, if you're slow. It's a great way to glean a mob from an opposing force, instead of waiting 20, 30 or 50 mitutes, depending on the target.

[Bumamgar]

Skope, you are clearly confused on a key point which I think matters.

The "raid rule proposal" that was put together and sent to Nilbog was a proposal to replace the current SERVER RAID RULES as posted by Nilbog. It had NOTHING to do with the "player raid rules" that I've only just learned about today.

Understanding that, maybe it puts things in a different light and explains why it wasn't some super-secret summit designed to fuck over everyone outside of IB/DA/WI. A (now former) officer from WI spoke with Durison of DA and Emil and Ektar of IB and they came up with a SERVER raid rule replacement proposal to submit to Nilbog for approval.

Anyway, just wanted to clear that up.

[Kole1]

Kole1: As Skope mentioned, yes, the roll call rule is in effect to prevent you from sitting on a spawn unaware of it's existence while a raid force lumbers on over to kill the target. It's a last-ditch style effort to sway the result of the claim of a mob. /shout present takes 5 seconds to type, if you're slow. It's a great way to glean a mob from an opposing force, instead of waiting 20, 30 or 50 mitutes, depending on the target.

How many times has it worked? and if the purpose is to prevent someone from sitting on a spawn, wouldnt the 30 minute rule effectuate that anyway? The raid coming in has already waited with less than 15 in the zone, presumably, comes in, and still cant wait a half hour for a mob they didnt camp? or..if youve been there with the other raid, you still can't wait another half hour ? Where exactly are you rushing to go ? poopsock another target 30 minutes quicker? it just doesnt make sense.

/shout present does take 5 seconds to type, but there are emergencies in RL, and since there are more than 15 anyway ( and you are entitled to the camp), and have 30 minutes, why should you lose a camp in 60 seconds time because someone dropped a roll call on you at 8:45 wen you are sending your kids off to school , taking a pre-engage piss, shit or w/e.

[Skope]

Then maybe you require some explanation as well...

Those rules were also designed by the players, they're enforced by the GMs.

Nevertheless my point still stands. a guild leader okay'd an officer's attempt to bypass other guilds and propose to Nilbog a certain set of rules that wasn't at all discussed with other guilds' leadership. I can understand certain members of IB and DA doing it, but you guys are new and clearly don't even understand the current rules but somehow seem to think your opinions are more valuable than those who have been around far longer and actually understand and ABIDE by the current ones.

I'm not confused my friend, I'm just not seeing your glittery and gilded view of this matter.

[Kole1]

All the other raid guild agreed to this rule. As stated before, if you aren't active you are not entitled to anything. Keep 15 players active. If you can't then step aside. No free hand outs just because you zoned in to Hate of Fear 3 days ago.


This rule requires 15 active people, within a moments notice at random by any opposing force, as I read it. So literally you are required to have 15 people reading shout for some random person's roll call.

IMHO, there should be a 5 minute warning to the 1 minute roll call.

Rather than a 1 minute straight roll you lose the mob sry kthxbyesry.

This rule isn't fair in any way shape or form. To fail to come up with a more fair version of this rule, you all show how stupid you are, and how you dont want to compromise , you want to screw each other over so bad that you'd build a stupid rule in.

And since I havent seen ( although there may be ) a sticky that said RAID RULES READ OR LOSE MOB IN ONE MINUTE BEWARE ALL RAIDING GUILDS+++..

then you have given inadequate notice to the community at large and the rule would fail on due process grounds, if this were America. But its norrath. lolz

[Skope]

Sorry Kole, but not 10 minutes ago you had no idea what the rule was and now you'd like to change it.

The rule is absolutely fair and they've been this way for a while. Now that your guild decided that the rule is somehow "unfair" only after you disobeyed it lends you no credibility. if you'd like to change the rules you do it in the same manner that everyone else is trying to, not by picking and choosing what you like and what you don't.

[Chicka]

How many times has it worked? and if the purpose is to prevent someone from sitting on a spawn, wouldnt the 30 minute rule effectuate that anyway? The raid coming in has already waited with less than 15 in the zone, presumably, comes in, and still cant wait a half hour for a mob they didnt camp? or..if youve been there with the other raid, you still can't wait another half hour ? Where exactly are you rushing to go ? poopsock another target 30 minutes quicker? it just doesnt make sense.


The roll call is intended to ensure your raid force IS ACTIVE AND READY. As it really should be for the entire time you are camping - sadly the rules don't allow us to roll call you until the mob pops.

The 30 minute timer serves a different purpose. It is intended to ensure you take down the mob in a reasonable time frame, and to step aside if you cannot. During this period you are uncontested and not held to any minimum people in zone.

These sir, are two different apples.

[Kole1]

The roll call is intended to ensure your raid force IS ACTIVE AND READY. As it really should be for the entire time you are camping - sadly the rules don't allow us to roll call you until the mob pops.

The 30 minute timer serves a different purpose. It is intended to ensure you take down the mob in a reasonable time frame, and to step aside if you cannot. During this period you are uncontested and not held to any minimum people in zone.

These sir, are two different apples.


I see. Well. In theory you could see the mob pop, call 30, and then call 1 minute instantly, thus eliminating the 30 minute timer altogether, if you are not there the SECOND (literal second) the mob spawns.

Thats still pretty lame for a mob with a window the size of Skope's mom's vagina. Because it favors the non-possessory party. The people entitled to the camp need 15 UNAFK PEOPLE, but the people looking to remove the entitlement need 1, the person to track the mob, and call the 30 and rollcall simultaneously. Sure you need 15 in the zone, but how is that fair? I guess you could call 30 and roll instantly right back, and keep going back and forth until someone finally gets 15 on in a minute..
......
...
but what sucker GM wants to watch that shit show?

Skope. My opinion is this rule is stupid and slanted in favor of the group looking to usurp the camp and the mob. I can see it was intended to eliminate camping ,but it hasn't been used properly.

[Skope]

No, DA and IB seldom fail the roll call which is one of the reasons that other guilds had stopped trying to fight them for spawns. That system doesn't work either and I too think it's stupid and needs to go, but at least it provides a check and actually forces them to be active, or at least some of them.

[Kole1]

No, DA and IB seldom fail the roll call which is one of the reasons that other guilds had stopped trying to fight them for spawns. That system doesn't work either and I too think it's stupid and needs to go, but at least it provides a check and actually forces them to be active, or at least some of them.

well thats all i wanted to hear. Sorry for indirectly saying your mother had a wideset vagina, but it was the spirit of the flame that got into me.

All i wanted was you saying the system doesn't work and is stupid. (b/c i think any logical person would say this is ineffective). Good intention, bad result. g4 summit ?

[Chicka]

I see. Well. In theory you could see the mob pop, call 30, and then call 1 minute instantly, thus eliminating the 30 minute timer altogether, if you are not there the SECOND (literal second) the mob spawns.

Thats still pretty lame for a mob with a window the size of Skope's mom's vagina. Because it favors the non-possessory party. The people entitled to the camp need 15 UNAFK PEOPLE, but the people looking to remove the entitlement need 1, the person to track the mob, and call the 30 and rollcall simultaneously. Sure you need 15 in the zone, but how is that fair? I guess you could call 30 and roll instantly right back, and keep going back and forth until someone finally gets 15 on in a minute..


You need 15 active people in order to be able to roll call, since a roll call failure will result in an instant roll call by the party who failed the call. Think of it like a queue, you may well be able to ask the guy behind you to hold your place, but you better bloody be there when your place comes up for the front of the queue.

If you call 30, you cannot then roll call, since the 30 acknowledges uncontested claim to the mob - a roll call is contesting the claim.

And here's something to consider: when these rules were made nobody believed anybody would be stupid enough to start a camping war...

[Goobles]

I still think 3day spawns with mobs on rotation would be better for everyone.

[Chicka]

I still think 3day spawns with mobs on rotation would be better for everyone.

Me too. We should divide the rotation based on how many gods your guild got in the last 3 months.

kkthnxbye.

[Supreme]

I still think 3day spawns with mobs on rotation would be better for everyone.

Ya too many people trying to be hardcore on a EMU instead of just trying to enjoy some classic raids and content.

Raids on p1999 have almost become a matter of life and death these days.

[Supreme]

Me too. We should divide the rotation based on how many gods your guild got in the last 3 months.

kkthnxbye.

Better yet we should only allow guilds to raid that was formed in the first WEEK of the server starting!

Don't be stupid.

[Kole1]

You need 15 active people in order to be able to roll call, since a roll call failure will result in an instant roll call by the party who failed the call. Think of it like a queue, you may well be able to ask the guy behind you to hold your place, but you better bloody be there when your place comes up for the front of the queue.

If you call 30, you cannot then roll call, since the 30 acknowledges uncontested claim to the mob - a roll call is contesting the claim.

And here's something to consider: when these rules were made nobody believed anybody would be stupid enough to start a camping war...


Why cant you? you can indict a ham sandwich it doesnt mean the charges would stick. Why cant you roll right back at someone ?

So you can't roll call if you call 30 ? so the mob is up, you roll call, rather than 30 ?

So you can't roll if you call 30, but you can call 30 after a roll ?

Back to my original statement. Stupid.

[Chicka]

Why cant you? you can indict a ham sandwich it doesnt mean the charges would stick. Why cant you roll right back at someone ?

So you can't roll call if you call 30 ? so the mob is up, you roll call, rather than 30 ?

So you can't roll if you call 30, but you can call 30 after a roll ?

Back to my original statement. Stupid.

I thought you were some kind of lawyer, read it again.

[Chicka]

Better yet we should only allow guilds to raid that was formed in the first WEEK of the server starting!

Don't be stupid.

I think stupid is trying to enjoy some classic raids and content without the classic competition.

Seriously, if you want to gear up and do all this stuff without competition: EZ server is that way -->.