These mobs are camped!

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Just a reiteration. If you claim a certain mob, say specs in oasis, or feerrot as your camp, and you are unable to keep them all dead, before respawns, they are not all camped. For example, say 8 spectres spawn. You clear out 6, and the first one respawns. YOu kill the 7th, and the 2nd respawns. You are camping 6 spectres. I am not talking about a quick afk and you have respawns, or a lag spike and lose your pet, or something crazy. If you demonstrate over an hour or more...even less really, that you cannot keep them cleared, you are not camping them ALL.

Once again, I am not nitpicking as in you clear 7, and on the 8th, the first respawns. I am talking, you haven't even cleared the last few, and you have respawns. In such a case, share. Do not try and be greedy.

That is all.

[Kinamur1999]

Even if people were willing to share, who would make someone for 1-2 specters...

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

isn't really the point is it, but for argument's sake...If you aren't killing the mob, how can it be 'camped'. ? And then is it really sharing, if you aren't camping it in the first place? Therefore you aren't requiring anyone to share, only avoid flames and bad feelings. So you ask them to share, and try using tact, instead of taking said mobs, or pointing out the fact they're wrong in calling said camp, camped. or said mobs, camped. In where they could feel they were being called selfish, liars, incompetent, inept, ignorant, aw heck..

I just ask them to share and hopefully make the point where they feel they have control, and makes them more amicable, or likely to acquiesce. Instead of oocing or shouting and it degenerates..

[Kinamur1999]

That's....fine.

But why make such a fuss over 2 specters in the first place

[Lanvaren]

That's....fine.

But why make such a fuss over 2 specters in the first place
Let's flip it over and say for example there are a couple of people people essentially rotating around the island keeping *two* specs killed.

It's not even worth getting into a fuss over FIVE specs.


Also, not only has the above happened to me, a dude was camping THE SINGLE SPECTRE IN THE FIRST LEVEL OF THE TOWER and was bitching incessantly when anyone pulled any spec ever regardless of the fact that he could not engage them. When he wandered out to engage one of the specs I was waiting to quad, he died 1:1 to the spec and proceeded to log out. Wonder how all those petitions went for him. :rolleyes:

[Nocte]

How about "if someone's there killing them already, I won't try to manuever the rules so that I can take some portion of the camp"? People get all territorial over those fucking spectres as if killing them gives your cock an extra inch, so just find something else.

There's plenty of other places to solo that get neglected, but Oasis of Marr and its beer-flavored nipples get all the damn drama.

[azeth]

The real lesson is: When you see a non afk player sitting on a spawn, GET THE FUCK AWAY. Its camped. Who the fuck do you think you are watching them and throwing the rule book out? Its camped, move the fuck on

[Hogwash]

Respect, try to learn some.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

It isn't about respect, or taking someone's camp. If you are on say, seafury isle, killing about 4 of them before the ones you killed, you can't really claim all of the seafuries, can you? You share, and if you arrive after that player, you don't be a wanker and kill so it cuts into what they were killing. If you were there previously, you should expect them to not cut into your kills.

The ones who claim all mobs in an area, even when they aren't killing them all in one cycle, and scream respect, are the same ones who would ffa centaurs or aviaks. But when you're above 35 or 40, or whatever, now it is MY camp, and respect? By only killing the mobs in a cycle you aren't, that is showing respect. Not showing respect would be cutting into the 5 per 8 you kill. Bottom line is people get paranoid, want an easy camp they can afk and kill at lesiure. While that is nice, and it may hold for a room,. in a dungeon, to a degree..and even outdoors... if you kill half of the specs say in oasis, afk and they respawn while you med, you kill the same 4, repeat process, how can you justify ALL OF THEM ARE MINE pls respect.

And fyi I haven't even killed a spec mob in oasis ...yet.. lol. It is one thing to clear say the lord room in guk, let it repop, kill, etc. Or even kill the ph, let the other 2 up. In that case killing the guards wout your permission would be a lack of respect or rude, but not camp stealing really. If someone killed the lord, or it's ph, then that is theft.

It isn't maneuvering of rules, or finding a loophole even. But if someone walks up, and asks, are you killing them... be honest. And drop the greed paranoia. If you are, fine. if you always leave 2 or 3 up... don't freak out if someone asks to kill them, and THEM ONLY.

And for the record, I have yet to kill or attack an oasis spec.... or even sit there.

yet.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Errr, If you are on say, seafury isle, killing about 4 of them before the ones you killed, you can't really claim all of the seafuries, can you?

Insert respawn, as in before the ones you killed respawn.

makes more sense.

And respect would also be not lying, or being selfish, eh? If someone comes up and asks a honest question, and you take offense, who is being disrespectful?

[azeth]

It isn't about respect, or taking someone's camp. If you are on say, seafury isle, killing about 4 of them before the ones you killed, you can't really claim all of the seafuries, can you? You share, and if you arrive after that player, you don't be a wanker and kill so it cuts into what they were killing. If you were there previously, you should expect them to not cut into your kills.

The ones who claim all mobs in an area, even when they aren't killing them all in one cycle, and scream respect, are the same ones who would ffa centaurs or aviaks. But when you're above 35 or 40, or whatever, now it is MY camp, and respect? By only killing the mobs in a cycle you aren't, that is showing respect. Not showing respect would be cutting into the 5 per 8 you kill. Bottom line is people get paranoid, want an easy camp they can afk and kill at lesiure. While that is nice, and it may hold for a room,. in a dungeon, to a degree..and even outdoors... if you kill half of the specs say in oasis, afk and they respawn while you med, you kill the same 4, repeat process, how can you justify ALL OF THEM ARE MINE pls respect.

And fyi I haven't even killed a spec mob in oasis ...yet.. lol. It is one thing to clear say the lord room in guk, let it repop, kill, etc. Or even kill the ph, let the other 2 up. In that case killing the guards wout your permission would be a lack of respect or rude, but not camp stealing really. If someone killed the lord, or it's ph, then that is theft.

It isn't maneuvering of rules, or finding a loophole even. But if someone walks up, and asks, are you killing them... be honest. And drop the greed paranoia. If you are, fine. if you always leave 2 or 3 up... don't freak out if someone asks to kill them, and THEM ONLY.

And for the record, I have yet to kill or attack an oasis spec.... or even sit there.

yet.

qft

i wish more ppl on this thread would have commentred on my Zial thread because I seriously come across like a douche bag despite being the one that was being KS'd.

[Nocte]

It isn't about respect, or taking someone's camp. If you are on say, seafury isle, killing about 4 of them before the ones you killed, you can't really claim all of the seafuries, can you?

Yes, you can. Don't assume that more people won't show up to group with the person already there. Maybe they are settling into a groove because buffs took some mana and they're warming up to a pace they plan on maintaining. Maybe they just had bad fucking luck (resists, etc) and they don't need you and your score card breathing down their neck, too.

The word "respect" shows up about half a dozen times in your post but I'm not convinced you know what it means unless it benefits you. If someone's there, it's camped. Ask if they're leaving soon or wait for them to wipe out, but don't expect some portion of the spawn based on your evaluation of their performance.


And fyi I haven't even killed a spec mob in oasis ...yet.. lol.

Then what the hell is your problem with something that hasn't affected you yet? lol.

It isn't maneuvering of rules, or finding a loophole even.

Yes, it is.

[Lanvaren]

Yes, it is.
The rules say if you can't kill it, it's not camped.

That's pretty blatantly stated, no maneuvering required.



Just thought I'd throw that out there.



Some dude killing a couple of specs and vehemently refusing to let someone else kill any specs at all is sort of a fail/lose situation IMO.

[Lanvaren]

Also, it comes down more to "courtesy" than "respect" - I.E. I'm courteous enough to avoid this stupid drama over specs, since there's really absolutely nothing about you or the rules to respect.

[Kinamur1999]

Except what makes you think that these people are going to be satisfied with their two specters? Lets say 20 minutes go by and the original camper goes afk for 2 minutes, comes back and the guy says Well you weren't killing it you can't claim it.

If people are going to throw the rulebook down, argue, and post on the forums about 2 specters why not try for 3 or 4....

[Bubbles]

Two words: Kunark Soon.

And thank god. :)

[Straif]

Two words: Kunark Soon.

And thank god. :)

I'm equally excited about kunark!!!

I'll be fucking training KC and Seb baby.. fuck your camps!!

[Lazortag]

Yes, you can. Don't assume that more people won't show up to group with the person already there. Maybe they are settling into a groove because buffs took some mana and they're warming up to a pace they plan on maintaining. Maybe they just had bad fucking luck (resists, etc) and they don't need you and your score card breathing down their neck, too.



The rules say if you can't kill it, it's not camped.

That's pretty blatantly stated, no maneuvering required.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Some dude killing a couple of specs and vehemently refusing to let someone else kill any specs at all is sort of a fail/lose situation IMO.

Here we have two reasonable positions that seem to conflict but are actually referring to two completely different situations. If someone is camping only one spectre because, say, they're a cocky level 30 Bard (wink wink) and it takes them an hour to kite red mobs, they really shouldn't make any fuss about the seven mobs that they can't reasonably kill, and so I wouldn't say that the specs in that case are "camped". However, in situations where most of the mobs are killed before repops happen, no one should be breathing down their neck scrutinizing them for not being able to camp "all" the mobs. That's ridiculous - players camping mobs will be slower killing them during some spawn cycles than others. I was in a group last night in HK where sometimes we'd have no problem killing all of the mobs in the basement before repops, but at other times we'd have trouble catching up with the repops (mostly because of med breaks, but surely there are other situations that exist where groups will be slower than normal). This doesn't mean that we were unable to hold the camp - with some common sense anyone could have understood that we were just having bad luck.

TLDR: please give people the benefit of the doubt when they're able to kill a sizeable number of mobs in a certain camp, but when they're clearly unable to hold a reasonable portion of the camp, that's a different issue altogether.

[Nocte]

Also, it comes down more to "courtesy" than "respect"

This.

The you can follow the letter of the "law" and still be a total chucklefuck. Just because there's a rule that allows you to take an action without administrative reprisal doesn't absolve you of being an asshole for doing it.

[fastboy21]

there's rules and there's social unwritten rules.

the op has got the rule right. i don't think any gm is going to have problem if he witnesses you "taking" the two spawns that the other guy can't keep down.

then there are the social rules. you may be right, but that doesn't mean you are nice.

if you don't care about being good/nice to others then stop reading.

most of the time disagreements can be settled by just talking to the other person.

scenario 1:
"Pardon me, I see that you are camping specs and that there are few in the cycle you aren't getting to. Would you mind if I pulled those please?"

scenario 2:
Just jumping in and taking the specs. When asked what you are doing you say, "Dude, you aren't even able to kill them all, so wtf do you care what I do?"

***
It's all in how you approach the situation. Nobody likes a rules lawyer or a smart ass.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Yes, you can. Don't assume that more people won't show up to group with the person already there. Maybe they are settling into a groove because buffs took some mana and they're warming up to a pace they plan on maintaining. Maybe they just had bad fucking luck (resists, etc) and they don't need you and your score card breathing down their neck, too.

Again, not talking about those situations. I am talking about they simplyare not killing the cycle, and I do not mean 7/8 , or 9/10. As some say I am nitpicking a rule,. or bending it, or finding a loophole, you are skewing what I say, or ignoring it as well. They simply are not killing said mobs, because of killing speed. period.



The word "respect" shows up about half a dozen times in your post but I'm not convinced you know what it means unless it benefits you. If someone's there, it's camped.

Nice, another assumption and personal attack, as well! The point is, if someone is there, it does not mean it is camped. presence alone, does not define a camp. You also must show.....


Ask if they're leaving soon or wait for them to wipe out, but don't expect some portion of the spawn based on your evaluation of their performance.

It is not a judgement, as in, "they're not killing fast enough for my taste". It is an observation, "Ah, they aren't killing all of them, let me shoot them a tell'.



Then what the hell is your problem with something that hasn't affected you yet? lol.

Because I play here, on this server, and therefore it concerns me. I see this quite often, and wanted to bring up my observation/opinion/point, in a forum. The only reason I posted it in this particular forum is because I knew some would start to flame, or make attacks, digs, take cheap shots, whatever.

Should I engage in a shout fest? ffa kill fest? train? ooc war? Maybe I should put names and say nasty things about others here? You assume this happened to me. We all play here, it should concern us all what is socially acceptable behavior for this 'society' and what is not. People that look the other way are part of the problem in our 'real world', it is no different in the digital world.


Anyway I guess what Lanvaren said, and this I agree with also...

TLDR: please give people the benefit of the doubt when they're able to kill a sizeable number of mobs in a certain camp, but when they're clearly unable to hold a reasonable portion of the camp, that's a different issue altogether.


I would also state, asking someone if you can kill the mobs they are NOT killing is a courtesy, but only that. It is merely a courtesy. If you think it implies you have ownership or possession, then kill the mobs, and lay claim to them as part of your camp. I would also argue, you do not have the right to deny someone from killing them with a no. You can ask them to please not do so, for whatever reason, but you cannot deny it if you are not camping (killing) them. So someone trying to say NO, and deny another in this instance, is what I view as selfish, discourteous, rude, narrow minded, what have you.

I understand the mentality of "man, if I give him an inch, he will take a mile." And in those situations you would probably have chat logs, or a screenshot even as proof when you used the appropriate channels to report the behavior.

It is unfortunate some people would, and will abuse someone trying to be nice and share, but not everyone is like that. And not everyone will deny sharing on the flip side. But you cannot become a wanker, because you assume someone else is. And to be honest, if someone had a valid concern and asked me to not touch a mob, even though they were not killing it, I would lay off most likely. All would depend on their attitude, and tact, as stated in this thread by fastboy21.

The fact people assume I am looking to condone, or even am partaking in rude behavior by intruding upon someone's camp is sad. Just because I bring it up on the forum does not mean anything, other then I have observed or f said situation. Perhaps as part, but do not assume, because everyone knows, when make an assumption, you make an ass out of u and umption.

[Nocte]

Nice, another assumption and personal attack, as well!

It's not an assumption, those were the words you used, in the context you used them. You're going on an on about how you should be able to take a portion of someone else's camp because they should respect you for... whatever... but the very expectation that they need to relinquish your calculated measure of mobs so you can get what you want is disrespectful in the process. Then you call them paranoid and greedy for not wanting to share. THEN you justify stealing mobs anyway based on server rules, which, as previously stated, still make you an asshole.

Also, if you're so thin-skinned to get your panties in a twist over what I said before, you're in the wrong area of the site. A personal attack would be telling you that you look fat when you cry. As it turns out, I've never seen you, or what you look like when you cry, so I'll just call you a baby*. There, that's a personal attack.

But you cannot become a wanker, because you assume someone else is.

This can also apply to you.

And to be honest, if someone had a valid concern and asked me to not touch a mob, even though they were not killing it, I would lay off most likely. All would depend on their attitude, and tact, as stated in this thread by fastboy21.

This is nice to see, at least.











*and I don't even mean it (much). Just making a point.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

You just take what I say and skew it. It isn't a portion of their camp, if they aren't killing it..... if you kill 5 specs(using them as an example) and leave 3 up, permanently because you do not have the mana, or health, doing so for the reason you cannot kill them... you are not camping them. And anyone refusing to share a spot ( I avoid the word camp) for the simple reason they don't want to is the one being rude.

Bleh, I have tried to be as clear as I can in explaining this, but either I am explaining it poorly, or you just don't see it or want to see my point.
Wasn't trying to start a war with anyone, but it has nothing to do with being thin skinned. You take a shot, a dig, however subtle or veiled, it is still an attack. And everything is personal when you're a person.

[Nocte]

anyone refusing to share a spot ( I avoid the word camp) for the simple reason they don't want to is the one being rude.

This is where you aren't seeing things from anyone's point of view but your own. People shouldn't have to share their camp/spot/whatever if they don't want to, as long as they're not trying to claim all of Lower Guk or multiple camps across the map. That you're citing rules to muscle your way into it, in spite of this, is disrespectful, and you still have the gall to call them rude.

Also, way to dodge every other point I made and focus just on the one that you thought you had a defense to. /golfclap

[Phallax]

I see exactly what Shaere is getting at here, that the rest of you obviously arent.

Lets take oasis specs for example. If someone is solong all the outside specs but ignoring the ones inside simply because they can only keep up with the poutside spawn, but you come along and kill the inside mobs and they tell you to stop because "spectres are camped" they have no right to that...period. If they arent killing them they cant tell you you cant kill them. THAT is what Shaere is trying to get at here, I believe.

[Nocte]

Lets take oasis specs for example. If someone is solong all the outside specs but ignoring the ones inside simply because they can only keep up with the poutside spawn, but you come along and kill the inside mobs and they tell you to stop because "spectres are camped" they have no right to that...period. If they arent killing them they cant tell you you cant kill them.

That's a fuzzy example. The specs there are often considered two separate camps, so it might fall into my exemption above (and it might not).

My interpretation of shaere's post is that if someone's killing the outside specs (to use the same area as an example), and they can only kill 2 of the 4 per spawn cycle (at least while he's hawking over them), then he is entitled to the other two regardless of what the player who was there first thinks about it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

IF YOU DON'T LEAVE ANY SPECS UP, HOW CAN THEY HAVE SEX TO SPAWN MORE FOR YOU TO KILL?????

Also: I'm drunk.

[Detnogetsovs]

Why do people still play this shitty ass game?

Goddamn so many stupid monkey noobs on our planet.

[darkblade717]

Then what the hell is your problem with something that hasn't affected you yet? lol.

He's retarded. Like legitimately retarded with the IQ below 90 and all that.

[Nocte]

He's retarded. Like legitimately retarded with the IQ below 90 and all that.

Quiet, Spanky, the grown ups are talking.

There's a difference between being retarded and being wrong.

[Hasbinbad]

What a bunch of whiny cunts. Let's make this real easy:

4. In order to hold a camp, the player or group must be able to demonstrate the ability to hold the camp without further help.

AKA, if you can't keep a mob down, you don't have claim to it.

Now shut the fuck up.

[Nocte]

I think, Hasbin, that you're overlooking the point of the thread (at least, for my involvement in it). It has less to do with that the rules say and more about being polite - or at the very least, not acting like a hypocritical, greedy weasel because someone else got to something you wanted before you did.

This server is full of people who fully understand and practice courtesy, it's just a shame so few of them post on the forums. It's also kind of sad that being an asshole to everyone upon making first acquaintance with them is revered as some kind of lost art form as opposed to the incredibly obvious "I have no self-esteem in real life and I take it out on strangers over the internet" statement that it's really making.

[Queue the self-proclaimed assholes with their self-proclaimed confidence or stating that "bro, they just don't give a fuck, dawg, y'know what I'm sayin'?"]

[Hasbinbad]

Courtesy goes both ways. If you're OBVIOUSLY not killing all the mobs in cycle, and someone else is OBVIOUSLY trying to xp too, courtesy would dictate that you offer to share, instead of bitching to the point that someone feels the need to start a RnF about it (which was fairly tasteful as it did not mention names, or try to be a bitch about it, just venting at the obvious idiocy of some nimrod).

[Nocte]

Courtesy goes both ways. If you're OBVIOUSLY not killing all the mobs in cycle, and someone else is OBVIOUSLY trying to xp too, courtesy would dictate that you offer to share, instead of bitching to the point that someone feels the need to start a RnF about it (which was fairly tasteful as it did not mention names, or try to be a bitch about it, just venting at the obvious idiocy of some nimrod).

Touche.

[Hasbinbad]

Touche.
I am also not left-handed.

[Nocte]

http://www.everythingisdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/inconceivable.jpg

[darkblade717]

What a bunch of whiny cunts. Let's make this real easy:



AKA, if you can't keep a mob down, you don't have claim to it.

Now shut the fuck up.

Until Rogean himself posts specific camp rules all bets are off. If they are actual rules they should be in a locked thread at the top of every page posted by the man himself

[Hasbinbad]

Until Rogean himself posts specific camp rules all bets are off. If they are actual rules they should be in a locked thread at the top of every page posted by the man himself
Firstly I would like to direct you to Rogeans post, which references the fact that the server rules, etc., can be found in the Library:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3610
Now I would like to direct you to the Library:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2
..in which the post (written by a GM at the time) entitled "Camps, Defined" may be found, which I will direct you to now:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2653
..in which the rule that I quoted:
4. In order to hold a camp, the player or group must be able to demonstrate the ability to hold the camp without further help.
..may be found.

Now shut the fuck up.