Z-Axis

[Rallyd]

The Z-Axis that appears to be coded into this game I believe was not present on live. I do not have evidence, hopefully some others can remember this and maybe find some.

Reason 1 : In PVP if someone was above you levitated into the air you could hit them on a melee as long as you were within range of the X/Y Axis.

Reason 2: All of these pathing bugs that exist now are in large part due to the way they require the Z axis to attack their target.. Mobs on live did not require melee range Z-Axis to attack their target, only X/Y Axis. If you guys remember on live kiting a mob when you were lev'd up in the air, it did not try to come up to hit you as it does now, it simply hit you from the ground. Some of the pathing bugs that existed on live were due to the area that was considered "safe" simply not being pathed at all. (Siren's Grotto seahorse exploit spot, or the infamous kurn's tower room.)

For instance, in Veeshan's Peak if you aggro some wurms or racnars, and kite them over any of the lava tunnels up in the air, they currently "fly" straight towards you up in the air. The way I recall this is supposed to work is they are supposed to follow the ground straight to the spot where you would be if you were on the ground, and hit you.

The reason this change is important is currently it is very, very easy to kite mobs without being damaged while high up in the air, because the mobs essentially bug out trying to climb the Z-Axis to attack you, which gives you a lot more time to maneuver.

[Retti_]

I know that if you had target rings to make the example more visual you should be able to hit the people levving above you as long as the target ring is in your melee range.

Thats what you mean right?

And yea I never remembered seeing npcs do the glitchy air walk to attack lev people like they do here.

[kaev]

Raise your hand if you were ever beaten to death on live by a mob that had fallen under the world.

Ah, the good old days! So many terrible bugs and off-the-wall mechanics.

[Dullah]

Spell cast range is messed up also. If someone is levitating above you, it calculates the horizontal + vertical distance instead of using them to find the hypotenuse.

[bulbousaur]

Classic PITA, grouping in the penthouse at Aviak village in SK. Mob on the ground is pounding on you, entire group had to run down to the bottom and find the one that is standing there beating on nothing (but hitting someone up top). Happened several times a night.

[heartbrand]

Classic PITA, grouping in the penthouse at Aviak village in SK. Mob on the ground is pounding on you, entire group had to run down to the bottom and find the one that is standing there beating on nothing (but hitting someone up top). Happened several times a night.

O man I remember that shit lol

[Nirgon]

I did notice not being able to calls spells down from as high.

I didn't PvP on a melee here, but.. yes if they are directly under you, they should be able to attack you regardless of how high up you are.

Z-axis exploiting was used in sleeper's tomb on live. I can't give you exactly what was changed but that story exists out there if you wanna find it.

[happyhappy]

Spell cast range is messed up also. If someone is levitating above you, it calculates the horizontal + vertical distance instead of using them to find the hypotenuse.

Good exemple of this would be Kiting Wyverns in Cobalt Scar, never had to go ground level after lev'ing off the ledge to cast on them and they didn't need to warp up to hit me either.

[Nizzarr]

This changes a lot in pvp.. as a melee, you would just have to be under whoever is levitated to hit them.

Levitate was a huge deal on classic pvp but its not as huge as it is here.

Melee characters's melee range shouldnt be a "bubble" but more like an infinite pillar that covers the whole z-axis.

[Rallyd]

Bump : Looking for anyone who has time to research evidence of this, or more posts in supporting memory of topic.

[Rallyd]

posted 08-28-2002 10:05 AM

Z axis splioting?

I see that every time a lev and sow'ed n00b goes running to KC from the spire in DL.... All kinds of shit shows up at zone...

BAN THEM ALL!


Taken from http://forums.evercrest.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=032234

Date is a bit late, but someone from era talking about a commonplace thing where running across dreadlands while levitated did not protect you from aggroing the mobs on the ground. Gorenaire was much more of a terror back then.

[Bazia]

show proof

[Rallyd]

After talking to most everyone I know, I haven't found anyone that disputes this claim at all, in fact all of them have memories of it happening.

With that in mind, I'm wondering why it is the way it is, limitation of client; something that was fixed later and can't be unfixed? Maybe a developer could shed some light on this for us!

[Rallyd]

Bump

[freez]

ya i remember on live running thru dl tunnel to kc sowed and levi'd atleast 400-600 feet in the air i would aggro spiders and dogs that were almost out of my clip plane i was so high.

the bubble shit nizzar is talking about is a huge pita

[khanable]

It's not that the z-axis wasn't there, it was just ignored.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.games.everquest/z$20axis%7Csort:date/alt.games.everquest/y8qu-NgTqFk/wG7GO-htxQ8J

Monsters/NPCs still ignore the Z axis and can hit you even if they are 300
feet above you or 300 feet below you. -Meaning anything in the basement of a
building can swing its fist at you and you will take damage when you are on
the roof... I noticed this a lot in Lake Rathe, if you are at the Aviak
Guard 3 spawn spot (that really tall thing on the island in the middle of
the lake with the flame), if you knock an Aviak Guard off that and into the
water below (a long drop), it will stay in the water, and continue to hit
you even if you are still on top.

Just punch in z-axis and search that group. There are people talking about mobs that ignored the z-axis well into the Luclin era.

[Rallyd]

It's not that the z-axis wasn't there, it was just ignored.


This is currently not the way it works on Project 1999. Currently mobs require Z-axis resolution to be able to engage you. This is the reason why there are currently so many pathing bugs and exploits all over the server. It seems to me this would be easy to fix, however I'm not a coder.. so we'll hope that this gets some attention and is resolved for the good of all.

[khanable]

This is currently not the way it works on Project 1999. Currently mobs require Z-axis resolution to be able to engage you. This is the reason why there are currently so many pathing bugs and exploits all over the server. It seems to me this would be easy to fix, however I'm not a coder.. so we'll hope that this gets some attention and is resolved for the good of all.

I'm aware of how it works here

The OP was insinuating that there shouldn't be a Z-axis, which isn't right. The z-axis has always been here, but classically, mobs ignored it.

Here they definitely don't ignore it.

[nilbog]

The z-axis has always been here, but classically, mobs ignored it.

Here they definitely don't ignore it.

Yep, and I agree with this. Will have other devs look into it possible modifications. Off the top of my head, I don't see how it could negatively impact existing mechanics (especially pathing).

[Dangermouse]

I'm not disputing what's been said, but is it as simple as this? I remember, back on live server, running round the top levels of CoM without agroing anything from ground level. And vice versa, of course. And other dungeons like Befallen - the mobs on lower levels don't agro the people on the top level.

Or is line of sight involved too? And walls (and floors) block line of sight, presumably?

[nilbog]

I'm not disputing what's been said, but is it as simple as this? I remember, back on live server, running round the top levels of CoM without agroing anything from ground level. And vice versa, of course. And other dungeons like Befallen - the mobs on lower levels don't agro the people on the top level.

Or is line of sight involved too? And walls (and floors) block line of sight, presumably?

This would address an npc's ability to hit a target it has already aggroed, not the initial adding to their hatelist, if that makes sense.

[Dangermouse]

I see, sorry. The mention of running thru DL with levitation, agroing everything below you, was not really the same thing then, and I'm not sure if that agrees with my memory of how it was.

However, I'm certain that it is classic that mobs you had already agrod could hit you regardless of Z axis position.

[Elderan]

Yep, and I agree with this. Will have other devs look into it possible modifications. Off the top of my head, I don't see how it could negatively impact existing mechanics (especially pathing).

I can confirm 100% mobs ignored z axis for aggro classic until velious for sure. I can remember running through DL and having mobs aggro below. The entrance of KC was always a dangerous place because of this.

[Smedy]

this is untrue, i vividly remember levitating to avoid being hit in pvp, the thing you talk about came either in luclin or pop cause i know i could get meleed later from the ground when i was levi, gl finding this in the patches tho

if u think meeles are weak and need buff so they can hit levitated casters you're all retarded, melees are already stronger if they have the gear, and will continue to grow stronger with velious

but i think this thread is about making it harder to train in VP, cuz that's what these balls are rustled about right now

[nilbog]

but i think this thread is about making it harder to train in VP

All of the issues are separate for me. The current ledge rule, the Z-axis bug, and the consideration to end training in VP each have their own merits (and threads).

These are usually good times; when a rule is changed, bugs come out of the woodwork, and usually end in good finds.

The Z-axis bug has particularly nasty looking effects of npc hopping up the Z to reach targets. Shouldn't be like that, and wasn't in classic.

[Kontra]

All of the issues are separate for me. The current ledge rule, the Z-axis bug, and the consideration to end training in VP each have their own merits (and threads).

These are usually good times; when a rule is changed, bugs come out of the woodwork, and usually end in good finds.

The Z-axis bug has particularly nasty looking effects of npc hopping up the Z to reach targets. Shouldn't be like that, and wasn't in classic.

What I am trying to understand is how is the ledge z axis different then any other location in the zone?

Almost every location in VP has a z axis bug which allows mobs to path through walls.

So why is the ledge off limits but those other places are not?

[nilbog]

What I am trying to understand is how is the ledge z axis different then any other location in the zone?

Almost every location in VP has a z axis bug which allows mobs to path through walls.

So why is the ledge off limits but those other places are not?

GMs told people to stay off of ledges. That apparently didn't resonate with everyone, so I clarified and reinforced it. This can/will change, but until further notice, everyone should abide by the rule of Sirken and the GMs.

[Kontra]

GMs told people to stay off of ledges. That apparently didn't resonate with everyone, so I clarified and reinforced it. This can/will change, but until further notice, everyone should abide by the rule of Sirken and the GMs.

I totally understand that and I agree if they say so then do it.

But I am asking the reason? Is there some bug I don't know about up there?

[Nizzarr]

The game considers the ledge as being levitated above the ground and that creates the z-axis "exploit" which makes everything paths straight to you, ignoring all pathing nodes. This can be recreated in any zone in the game and is also currently used to pull things(like fungi king) to the crypt entrance and what not.

TL;dr : You can pull anything tru any amount of walls by being levitated about 50 units from any ground ( this is exploiting pathing, I suggest not doing it )

[Dullah]

this is untrue, i vividly remember levitating to avoid being hit in pvp, the thing you talk about came either in luclin or pop cause i know i could get meleed later from the ground when i was levi, gl finding this in the patches tho

if u think meeles are weak and need buff so they can hit levitated casters you're all retarded, melees are already stronger if they have the gear, and will continue to grow stronger with velious

but i think this thread is about making it harder to train in VP, cuz that's what these balls are rustled about right now

You could absolutely hit casters while they levitated above you if you could find the right x,y coord. Mobs could hit you from any height as well. I'm not so sure mobs would aggro on you if you were way above, but they'd certainly hit you from the ground regardless of your z axis once aggrod.

[Retti_]

this is untrue, i vividly remember levitating to avoid being hit in pvp, the thing you talk about came either in luclin or pop cause i know i could get meleed later from the ground when i was levi, gl finding this in the patches tho

if u think meeles are weak and need buff so they can hit levitated casters you're all retarded, melees are already stronger if they have the gear, and will continue to grow stronger with velious

but i think this thread is about making it harder to train in VP, cuz that's what these balls are rustled about right now

Weird because I remember being able to stand under levitated people hitting them and also having to put my camera facing straight down while zoomed out to bob and weave around npcs when levd above them to not agro

Also +training DL and agroing gore while lev
Also +to fixing this issue as it causes mobs to glitch and poof up to the high z axis point to resolve damage