Property is theft.

[Hasbinbad]

Still you are yet to put together a cogent argument against this point.

There are several valid criticisms of this idea, of which my favorite is "fuck you, I am a greedy bastard and I like the idea of owning private property," but no-one has put one forth.

First, we have to understand that the phrase refers to land and excess resources, rather than possessions and use-rights. Understood in this, the proper fashion, one can see that theft does not in fact presuppose property in the sense that I am using property, and is clearly a valid proposition.

[Hastley]

Still you are yet to put together a cogent argument against this point.

There are several valid criticisms of this idea, of which my favorite is "fuck you, I am a greedy bastard and I like the idea of owning private property," but no-one has put one forth.

First, we have to understand that the phrase refers to land and excess resources, rather than possessions and use-rights. Understood in this, the proper fashion, one can see that theft does not in fact presuppose property in the sense that I am using property, and is clearly a valid proposition.

Yay more inane drivel brought to you by hasbinfat

[runlvlzero]

Yay more inane drivel brought to you by hasbinfat

[runlvlzero]

So your telling me an agreement between two or more people to respect possession is theft?

[Recycled Children]

So how do you build anything if no one owns land? Who has the right to build there?

[r00t]

we stole it from the injuns fair & square

[runlvlzero]

No, he's saying that the money in your pocket is fiat which means it's not backed by any gold or silver and is actually a debt. Therefore, you own nothing, you are stealing. As in theft.

BURN

No one was contending this. And he didn't state this. He's talking about barter or any form of property. Not currency. No where did he say money, fiat, or debt.

[Hasbinbad]

So your telling me an agreement between two or more people to respect possession is theft?
what about people who are not in on this agreement?

[Hasbinbad]

To be clear: the type of property i am referring to as theft is "private property." This is mostly distinguished as exclusionary "owned land" and exclusionary "excess resources," as opposed to "posessions" and "personal property," which can be seen as "things you need or have some use-right to" and "use-rights to land" and "things which are produced from the land you're using, within reason."

[Hasbinbad]

And yes, this comes mostly from Proudhom, but has been a major theme in philosophy in general since then, being added to and discussed by many. And no, I am not trolling, and by that I mean I am an artist.

[Rellapse35]

Man Nurse Scholar

[runlvlzero]

He sounds like he's using NWO buzzwords to me. I think he's just fully been brainwashed into regurgitating what he's been taught like you said.

[runlvlzero]

I believe he's worth around 150 million. I wouldn't be surprised if that increases significantly once his latest album comes out. So many children are going to get ahold of a gun soon and steal your car.

His songs are worth 150 million. The man is not worth that much anymore as a person.

(Don't get my wrong Eminem has made valuable contributions to our society) I just don't think the owners of his music label see him as an artist with much more fresh potential.

He's in the "Metallica" stage of existence now. Has been, maybe was popular and good (according to opinion of course). And will sell for the next 25 years regardless of what people think.

[Hasbinbad]

classic deflection

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Imagine an island. It naturally has limited space and resources. Imagine that, largely due to inheritance, the space and resources become owned by a cluster of families, who had first possession of that space and resources.

In that scenario, private property is not theft. It is just domination, technically speaking. Private property is only a problem to the degree to which a society objects to domination.

Domination, domain, dominion, etc. The language is there. Exorbitant domination is the issue. But, we do not recognize that as a problem. Most here lust after it themselves.

Human species, fuck yeah.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Fine damn it. Property is theft. In regards to "private property" there is no "private property" it's technically owned by the government and will be taxed upon your "use" regardless if you "bought" it. So, government stole your "private property." Theft.

How else do you want to look at it. The earth owns the "land" and you are temporarily "using" it. Therefore, YOU are the thief.

This philosophy is a run-around designed to make dumbass college kids think because they have never thought in such a profound way ever before which thus turns people into creative beings with ideas who analyze everything from then on that possibly produces something unique and valued in the future as opposed to everyone spinning around in the same circle where nothing unique is ever exposed.

YOU CANT WIN OH MY GOD THERES NO WRONG ANSWER TO PHILOSOPHY AND THERE IS NO RIGHT ANSWER OH MY FUCKING GOD

Eminem is a multi-millionaire... how is that not fucking mind blowing considering the nature and state of his music? Why is this NOT something worth talking about as scientists and doctors are far from multi-million dollar status.

IF WE SPENT ALL THAT MONEY THAT WAS THROWN TO EMINEM WE WOULD HAVE PROBABLY FOUND A CURE FOR ALZHEIMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!

but eminem keeps it realz, yo. Plus, he sucked Dre's dick good.

farce.

[Hasbinbad]

You're not addressing the fundamental issue at all.

Here, I'll help: exclusivity.

[runlvlzero]

How does RMT fit into this picture hasbinbad? Is RMT theft?

[Rellapse35]

http://www.primewire.ag/tv-5211-South-Park/season-17-episode-1

[Hasbinbad]

Is RMT theft?
Don't even get me fucking started on intellectual property because I *will* rip someones spine out through their anus and use it to defile their dead body.

[Rellapse35]

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFR9u9U0aU9iOsjYRdcH_AGaWHrsOhh vuj5m-Ovzvo-EGpw7qH4Q

[Hasbinbad]

only tru fans put quotes about me in their sig .. y'all keep saying it's narcissism, but i'm just pointing out extant hero worship.

[runlvlzero]

TBH in my case its nice to get replied to every once in awhile and your a good audience. I get extremely bored medding between kills without something to type. I would say its at least compulsive for me. Thanks for being there for me Hasbinbad.

[Rellapse35]

queer lol

[Hasbinbad]

TBH blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah blah blah Hasbinbad.

[runlvlzero]

queer lol

You to Rellapse <3

[runlvlzero]

Oh look the quotes are empty. Nothing meaningful said.

[Rellapse35]

http://www.sockshare.com/file/59749F83C2A8F7A7#

That nerd chick is sexy as fuck

[runlvlzero]

Quotes didn't display :P

[runlvlzero]

http://www.sockshare.com/file/59749F83C2A8F7A7#

That nerd chick is sexy as fuck

Nice 245mb virus. Didn't download out of respect for the chick who worked hard to earn that money for her video.

[Rellapse35]

tha fuck would you download a streaming tv show for

[runlvlzero]

I'm energy conscious about the universe and all the little bits on my drive. 245mb just to see a chick seems not right at all.

I googled up sinistergrin, saw a second life char and some youtube thing that looks like its gangsta or hip hop (hard to tell)

Did not see any beautiful people.

[Otto]

How come there hasn't been any Venus Project rants yet Hasbin

[Rhambuk]

To be clear: the type of property i am referring to as theft is "private property." This is mostly distinguished as exclusionary "owned land" and exclusionary "excess resources," as opposed to "posessions" and "personal property," which can be seen as "things you need or have some use-right to" and "use-rights to land" and "things which are produced from the land you're using, within reason."

only skimmed a few posts..

There is no land ownership in maine, you may have a house there, you may own a deed and pay taxes on the land, you don't own the land.

The only reason I bring this up is because theres a hot topic in maine right now for the construction of a private east west highway which will tear through the state clearing houses and businesses out of the process. My great aunt and uncle have lived in their house that they built by hand for over 40 years. never missed a payment or anything have a deed etc etc The highway is going right through their front door and theres nothing they can do about it.

The state has had a vote and the people turned it down but apparently it doesn't matter the company can still go ahead and construct its highway, if you don't want to sell to them to bad they're going straight to the bank and buying your land out from under you and kicking you on the street.

So though my family has lived on this land for over 100 years, built 2 houses, etc etc etc... we don't own anything other than what we put here. if someone wanted the property they could just go to the bank and pay more than we can and take it from us.

Can't wait for day 1 construction im going to be standing in front of bulldozers with a rifle/shotgun/road flares on my chest screaming i have a bomb. its my state god dammit, go fuck yourselves and your highway.

[Recycled Children]

How many 2 word responses has Hasbinbad made since his initial post? I won't even read them because they are full of commie nonsense.

[Hasbinbad]

only skimmed a few posts..

There is no land ownership in maine, you may have a house there, you may own a deed and pay taxes on the land, you don't own the land.

The only reason I bring this up is because theres a hot topic in maine right now for the construction of a private east west highway which will tear through the state clearing houses and businesses out of the process. My great aunt and uncle have lived in their house that they built by hand for over 40 years. never missed a payment or anything have a deed etc etc The highway is going right through their front door and theres nothing they can do about it.

The state has had a vote and the people turned it down but apparently it doesn't matter the company can still go ahead and construct its highway, if you don't want to sell to them to bad they're going straight to the bank and buying your land out from under you and kicking you on the street.

So though my family has lived on this land for over 100 years, built 2 houses, etc etc etc... we don't own anything other than what we put here. if someone wanted the property they could just go to the bank and pay more than we can and take it from us.

Can't wait for day 1 construction im going to be standing in front of bulldozers with a rifle/shotgun/road flares on my chest screaming i have a bomb. its my state god dammit, go fuck yourselves and your highway.
that is eminent domain, which is a different issue that "property" in the first place.

[Hasbinbad]

How come there hasn't been any Venus Project rants yet Hasbin
futurism is cool and everything, but it's not really a main focus in my life. i do study quite a bit of permaculture, which is looking at our lifestyles in a critical manner.. fukuoka style seed bombs and holzer's work hold particular interest for me. These guys have been able to do things which traditional horticulture hasn't even considered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permaculture

Fukuoka
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-kVTkT26k

Holzer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu3THF1D-Vo

[Tiddlywinks]

what the fuck is op talking about

who is he replying to?

[Rhambuk]

that is eminent domain, which is a different issue that "property" in the first place.

I just know its fucked up, and I can't wait to shoot at some bulldozers!

[Hasbinbad]

in related news, the city of richmond (where i grew up) is using eminant domain to prevent banks from foreclosing on poor people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/richmond-california-eminent-domain_n_3905885.html

[Rhambuk]

It can be used for good!

just not here, its gonna be a shitshow when it starts and there are mobs rioting.

[Hasbinbad]

Hasbin you need to find a new forum bro, the CNN news alerts are getting p gay bro not sure if you noticed but this is everquest forum not debate the world problems.

0 fucks given. did not read any of this thread.
Considering the source:
Thank you for your kind words sir. I am assured of my righteousness.

[Barkingturtle]

Misread thread title as "Puberty is theft"; nothing else to comment.

[Hasbinbad]

Barkingturtle is a scholar and a gentleman.

[Recycled Children]

http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/obama-lenin.jpg

[r00t]

http://floppingaces.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/obama-lenin.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vwMin.gif

[runlvlzero]

Its not about communism r00t. Its about corruption, oppression and tyranny. The greedy capitalist pigs are the ones pushing for this corrupt version of socialism to push America over the brink.

If I had income at all, or income over "just surviving" I would be stockpiling for the rebellion. I would be flying over cities air dropping pamphlets with survival tactics and military tactics.

Americans are lazy and greedy and full of fear. Alex Jones won't even call for Armed Rebellion at a single place and time.

We have a duty and responsibility to ensure that everyone is treated fairly and the greedy do not get to abuse whatever system we have in place regardless of what that system may be.

No one is following their duty. The rich, especially.

They will gladly let us pay for it in concentration camps and starvation, misery, and 80 hr work weeks at 3 part time jobs with no overtime.

[Recycled Children]

Its not about communism r00t. Its about corruption, oppression and tyranny. The greedy fascist pigs are the ones pushing for this corrupt version of socialism to push America over the brink.

Fixed that. Let's keep these things accurate.

[Sidelle]

We need a zombie apocalypse to wipe the slate clean so we can start over. Either that or our alien overlords and creators need to come back and say "we made a mistake, oops lol" and take us out. Just sayin'.

[runlvlzero]

Thanks for not slamming my idealism. Its a pipe dream. Wish I could have done more with my time instead of being such a fuckup =)

[Clark]

Yay more inane drivel brought to you by hasbinfat

Lol

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Its not about communism r00t. Its about corruption, oppression and tyranny. The greedy capitalist pigs are the ones pushing for this corrupt version of socialism to push America over the brink.

If I had income at all, or income over "just surviving" I would be stockpiling for the rebellion. I would be flying over cities air dropping pamphlets with survival tactics and military tactics.

Americans are lazy and greedy and full of fear. Alex Jones won't even call for Armed Rebellion at a single place and time.

We have a duty and responsibility to ensure that everyone is treated fairly and the greedy do not get to abuse whatever system we have in place regardless of what that system may be.

No one is following their duty. The rich, especially.

They will gladly let us pay for it in concentration camps and starvation, misery, and 80 hr work weeks at 3 part time jobs with no overtime.

But we have always been at war with Oceania.

In seriousness, I always observe how people conceptualize "the rich." Decades of Fox and Limbaugh have many working stiffs *defending* the rich. Standing up for them. Being offended that any complaint is levied against them.

I know a fair amount of very wealthy people, even though my career leaves me dirt poor. A fair amount of them are true scumbags, like children, simple minded and vindictive and greedy. Others are fine. But lots of them are as I say.

And what is great wealth in such hands? A weapon. The thug on the street menaces and gets his kicks off of menacing, with a gun or his tuff presence.

There are lot of such people like that among the wealthy. Immature, bullying little punks. And wealth is a pretty big gun.

If you don't think we have to watch out for hostile and belligerent billionaires, you have bought into a fable. The rich can be scumbags, too.

The bottom line for the tl;dr crowd is, we have to watch out for punks everywhere. Poor punks, and rich punks. They exist.

And why should the rich ones not get put in their place just like the poor ones?

[runlvlzero]

Indeed. I do not want the rich to look after me. I want people to look after themselves. The rich keep on this tangent. And I mean Bank of America, BP, Dupont, Raytheon, Congress rich. They don't want a bunch of angry thugs. They may want to consider using their wealth to look out for the big bullies that morans like me can't even comprehend.

Just a suggestion )

It will help ensure they stay rich. While not insanely so.

[Ahldagor]

smitez is the only one that pointed out what hbb did, and took it to its nihilistic end. hbb you need to evaluate your views in comparison to early fascist rhetoric, you're more of a fascist than you realize.

[Sidelle]

I get so sick of people bitching about the wealthy all the time. There are actually wealthy people out there who worked very hard to get what they have - and they give a lot back to society; whether through donating to charity or setting up scholarships or employing people in their communities. I have respect for that. Why don't you?

[runlvlzero]

I get so sick of people bitching about the wealthy all the time. There are actually wealthy people out there who worked very hard to get what they have - and they give a lot back to society; whether through donating to charity or setting up scholarships or employing people in their communities. I have respect for that. Why don't you?

If thats directed at me. I do. But what 1% of the 1% do does not exonerate the 1%.

Unfortunately there is so much wrong with our society that the reform we need needs to come from everyone. Not just the oppressed.

There's a lot in the middle and on the top who aren't going to suffer right off the bat. But they will suffer when the system starts falling apart.

George Washington a fine example of a good wealthy person. Howerd Hughes another fine example. Larry Lessig another outstanding example. Yossie Hollander a fine example.

The list goes on of wealthy or just simply well off people doing the right thing. But they are not enough alone to help turn America around. Then you have people like the NSA Chief. Rupert Murdoch. Those at the G80 summit. Oil executives. Probably a million middle men working int he loan industry that KNEW better.

The list is long on both sides. Unfortunately the corrupt wealthy way outway the number of good wealthy. Making us proles extremely angry.

So fuck Oceania. They don't care about us enough to shake up their little club.

[runlvlzero]

If you think the poor have any representation. Any say in Law. Copyright, politics, industry, legislation, how schools are fun. You are delusional as well. That shit all comes down from the top. Where products got made. How industries are subsidized. What research becomes public.

The man at MIT killed himself for making many attempting to make many publicly funded research papers public.

Sears has been sitting on all kinds of research because its still more productive for them to sell shit.

[runlvlzero]

***how schools are run

[runlvlzero]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

A god damned hero.

[runlvlzero]

And what about those people who don't even need to worry about dumbshit like comcast fucking people over or the NSA because they can simply just buy a VPN or run their own ISP. Giving them free reign over information while poor people are getting dragged into court for sharing a 5$ song amongst there friends. Something they would have done just through a different network in 1980. (If you don't think casette tapes and sneaker net was on the scale of the internet, trust me everyone was doing it, and the cassette tape industry was probably in scale with an ISP industry)

Shit like this keeps poor people down. Ensures they scrape by just for their entertainment. Ensures that truly enlightening pursuits are perpetually out of their reach.

[runlvlzero]

And the stranglehold on TV. Public broadcasting. Radio. and SOON shit like youtube, vimeo, and bliptv type services is only going to be 100x worse. Right now we are on the harry edge of total information domination.

[runlvlzero]

You expect dumb, ignorant poor, beer drinking slobs to ensure that our society remains free, open, and able to enrich itself?

They can barely manage to get to work without killing themselves. This is where people with education, money, power, wealth, come in. Stopping this degradation of our social culture for the sake of a few more extra pennies at the top is what stops the whole thing from completely melting down.

But no. Tarken, Keep tightening your grip.

[runlvlzero]

If the rich don't think they should look after the commodities and burger flippers that ensure they remain rich and can buy those burgers without flipping themselves. They are ignorant and don't deserve their wealth.

[runlvlzero]

Another way to look at it. Is if you own something you take care of it. If you own the fast amount of our collective national wealth. You look after it. You use it to improve what you have.

There are so few people looking after America its getting worse every year. Not because "poor people" make it impossible, their fucking inconsequential. Its because people are content to sit and watch the world burn.

[runlvlzero]

And if you are rich. And you think i'm full of shit. I challenge you to give up your privilage. All that you have. Change your name and identity. And start in rags.

not even .001% of those people ever come out of that without any education or help.

[Ahldagor]

Another way to look at it. Is if you own something you take care of it. If you own the fast amount of our collective national wealth. You look after it. You use it to improve what you have.

There are so few people looking after America its getting worse every year. Not because "poor people" make it impossible, their fucking inconsequential. Its because people are content to sit and watch the world burn.

firstly: *they're* and *it's*
secondly: there's an underlying structure that you're digging towards, so keep digging. all societies have it. gotta ask the right question.

[runlvlzero]

Notice at any point in my rant did I say in order to fix the world do people need to give up their wealth or their empires or their positions. Just that they should use it more wisely.

[runlvlzero]

World seriously lacking good leadership or the ability to get good leadership atm. Nobility pah...

[Ahldagor]

Notice at any point in my rant did I say in order to fix the world do people need to give up their wealth or their empires or their positions. Just that they should use it more wisely.

World seriously lacking good leadership or the ability to get good leadership atm. Nobility pah...


nope and nope. wealth isn't a concern nor leadership.

how does a society come about is more where i was trying to nudge the thought

[runlvlzero]

One group decides to work for the benefit of itself over that of another. One tribe forms and maintains cohesion and works to dominate the other tribes... end ultimate perpetual ponzi scheme.

I think it's ingrained into our genetics.

Sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad. We're in one of the bad cycles.

[runlvlzero]

Sometimes that process creates progress.

And sometimes it creates stagnation.

Where in a stagnation stage.

Another group needs to form up and take over for their own benefit.

[runlvlzero]

Question is maybe. Can this be achieved with modern technology and information systems and military in place?

Can it be done without utter devastation?

[runlvlzero]

The very smart know their game very well it seems. I'm no slouch about IT and I can see how well the information gathering and intelligence systems are organized and in place for a war against small dissident groups. If they can keep stamping everyone out on a small scale. They will never be able to achieve enough momentum or mass and potential to overcome the current resistance.

[runlvlzero]

* Yep screwed up some we are contractions my bad.

[runlvlzero]

Here's something else. A "new new world order" could form up without class boundaries.

The current "New World Order" seems to have extreme fascism and class boundaries.

This is not necessary for success. IMO.

[abacab-godking2]

I am going to kill myself 4 more months left

[runlvlzero]

I am going to kill myself 4 more months left

Why does this revelation? Require you to artificially shorten your life.

Shit has a LOT longer than 4 months before total thermonuclear Holocaust. I would be dumb to try and predict the future with any degree of accuracy other than: Some day shit will break and break hard.

[runlvlzero]

Lastly the level at which it will break is not equally true for everyone. If you happen to be in a comfortable position in life. Enjoy it while it lasts =)

[Sidelle]

If thats directed at me. I do. But what 1% of the 1% do does not exonerate the 1%.

Unfortunately there is so much wrong with our society that the reform we need needs to come from everyone. Not just the oppressed.

There's a lot in the middle and on the top who aren't going to suffer right off the bat. But they will suffer when the system starts falling apart.

George Washington a fine example of a good wealthy person. Howerd Hughes another fine example. Larry Lessig another outstanding example. Yossie Hollander a fine example.

The list goes on of wealthy or just simply well off people doing the right thing. But they are not enough alone to help turn America around. Then you have people like the NSA Chief. Rupert Murdoch. Those at the G80 summit. Oil executives. Probably a million middle men working int he loan industry that KNEW better.

The list is long on both sides. Unfortunately the corrupt wealthy way outway the number of good wealthy. Making us proles extremely angry.

So fuck Oceania. They don't care about us enough to shake up their little club.

My last post wasn't necessarily aimed at you. It was just kind of a general statement about how many people here seem to hate anyone wealthy and dismiss them as greedy, soulless, evil bastards when they aren't all like that.

I understand what you are trying to say in your subsequent posts, by the way. I even agree with some of it. I am glad you at least recognize that there are decent wealthy people out there who give back to society to make this country (and world) a better place for everyone.

Another general statement: Certain people here even come off as whiny, jealous, and petty and it makes me want to puke sometimes. That's all.

[runlvlzero]

Thanks. I shudder to think what our world would be like without good people in it of all ilk =) I know I paint a grim picture. Its only because I'm in a bad position and things look really bad from my perspective. And I even understand that without being in this position my outlook might be entirely different as well.

[Rellapse35]

Sidele lets skype naked

[runlvlzero]

Sidele lets skype naked

Would laugh if Sidelle had a penis.

[Rellapse35]

Would laugh if Sidelle had a penis.

I wouldn't

[Sidelle]

Sidele lets skype naked

Nope. :)

Would laugh if Sidelle had a penis.

Nope. Lol

[Archalen]

What was it that Chomsky said about eating pussy?

[runlvlzero]

What was it that Chomsky said about eating pussy?

Found a clip of a really high dude saying nothing about this topic.

My answer is. He said nothing about it.