Discussion on R99 vs VZTZ **POSTPONED**

[Sirken]

i will be hosting a discussion on my stream (twitch.tv/sirkenp99) discussing R99 vs VZTZ Friday August 30, at 10pmEST. if possible id like to be joined by; one player that has only played on R99 and not on VZTZ, one player that has played on both R99 and VZTZ, and if possible one player that has only played on VZTZ and not on (or very very little on) R99.

either shoot me a Private Message with Subject of "R99 vs VZTZ" or post in this thread and tell me which of the 3 categories you fall under, as well as why you'd be a good addition to the discussion.

you do NOT have to be a "famous" player as long as you have the experience i'm looking for. you MUST be able to get along with others.

i feel that by getting into the pros and cons for each server, maybe we can hit on some small things that will improve R99 without deviating too much from "classic"

Sirks

[heartbrand]

Beyond resists, which do need fixing, fundamentally the server is "fine". Exp is boosted plenty at this point, we have YT and a Leaderboard, etc. The server stinks because there aren't enough people. Why aren't there enough people? Because the launch was botched and countless questionable decisions were made combined with the year and a half it took to get stuff like increased xp, YT, etc.

All of the goodwill and first impressions have been used up. This server needs a combo of blue transfers and a "relaunch." Does a relaunch mean wipe? Personally I wouldn't mind a wipe but I think you could market a relaunch. What is a relaunch? Give a two week huge exp boost, classic items dropping again, launch it with fixed resists and the other long needed changes. Perhaps a one time amnesty to accounts banned for non MQ issues. Dunno something to create buzz about the server. Maybe relaunch with teams and give everyone a one time race change, but do it blind or something without people knowing how teams will work out to cut down on Zerg guilds. Maybe release some of the revamp zones on red early such as chardok 2.0 fear and hate revamp and stonebrunt / warrens.

Anything short of a major relaunch is just more bandaids on a nuclear war victim. They're appreciated, they're needed, but they aren't going to attract any truly new players, just bring back the same 10-25 people over and over who play and quit again.

You also have the issue of "Zerg" guilds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how it could be combatted but I don't think there's a true solution other than item loot, and a non classic reward system for pvp victory. People want pixels and will always flock to where they can get pixels, unless you provide an alternate way of obtaining pixels they will keep on joining wherever they can get them.

Tl;dr minor changes and fixes are nice but you need a complete relaunch/major overhaul to ever pass that 200 pop mark again.

[mostbitter]

variance

[Mittens Romney]

I think it is to late in this servers history to make any changes that would encourage a large population increase.
One thing that would promote the health of the server is making a cap to the number of players allowed in one guild.
A wipe is the only real answer to get a large number of new players to try red99.

[Cid]

I can't join your stream but I have been on Red since Beta. I didn't play everyday but when the population was at 14 average unless Nihilum was raiding, I was often one of the 14.
Without the benefit of a guild, I managed to solo a shaman to 60, a druid to 60, a mage to 55, and a necro to 55. I did have the benefit of a long-time friend playing and a RL friend as well, and I did duo with my RL friend on the shaman. I can count the groups I have been in on one hand, but that's because I don't care about pvp nor actively participate in it.
I have never killed anyone on Red on any character. I don't attack anyone unless defending myself or a group member. I just run around helping people, especially new players, so hopefully they keep playing on Red despite the assholes.

That being said. I never played VZTZ. I only came to Red because my friends did and I like open camps. However, I have a much different perspective on the Red server than likely anyone else. I have never been anyone's enemy and it's allowed me to make friends with people in every guild. I am not on anyone's "side" except maybe the newbies' side.

It's not a bad server overall. The bitching gets old in ooc and the fixes are really slow. I don't care about resists, I'd rather all nukes land than no nukes land. It's rough on the melee characters but root is pretty resistable compared to nukes/dots. When a rogue catches you by surprise you won't be feeling sympathy for melee toons.

I know what the coders do is extremely time consuming and mind numbing to fix all the things that break in EQ and I don't really expect it to be done faster. I am happy it's done at all for the incredibly low price of free. I'd just like some more frequent updates on what is being worked on and perhaps a rough estimate on when it will be implemented. I think that would help with a lot of frustrations over the breaks and bugs.

The bitching, well, I like global chat, I just get tired of listening to the same 10 people reiterating the same ridiculous tirades. There have been hours of homosexual insults coupled with threats of how badly they can beat up each other in real life, then about how money they make or how often they get laid.
It's like watching the Discovery Channel and seeing two rams fighting over a fat guy in a female goat costume.
Or, if you prefer, a daycare for hyperactive little people with a Napolean complex arguing over who is the tallest. Doesn't matter, still a midget.

I'm not sure how to trim the weeds out of ooc without screwing everyone, perhaps someone has a good idea.

Overall, fun server. Plenty of people for me to help. Even if the whining and bitching in ooc never stops, well, the Ocean of Tears had to get filled up somehow.

Cidisius, 60 shaman
Neefin, 60 druid
Colt, 55 mage
Yawgmoth, 55 necro (Not always me!)

[Runya]

A wipe will chase away more people that it will bring it

[krazyGlue]

cut down on Zerg guildscut down on Zerg guilds

You also have the issue of "Zerg" guilds. [/QUOTE]

[krazyGlue]

The server stinks

work to cut down on Zerg guilds.

You also have the issue of "Zerg" guilds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how it could be combatted but I don't think there's a true solution .


..some1 that join`s the zerg .. and says this kinda shit makes me lawl

[GrobbGangsta]

Beyond resists, which do need fixing, fundamentally the server is "fine". Exp is boosted plenty at this point, we have YT and a Leaderboard, etc. The server stinks because there aren't enough people. Why aren't there enough people? Because the launch was botched and countless questionable decisions were made combined with the year and a half it took to get stuff like increased xp, YT, etc.

All of the goodwill and first impressions have been used up. This server needs a combo of blue transfers and a "relaunch." Does a relaunch mean wipe? Personally I wouldn't mind a wipe but I think you could market a relaunch. What is a relaunch? Give a two week huge exp boost, classic items dropping again, launch it with fixed resists and the other long needed changes. Perhaps a one time amnesty to accounts banned for non MQ issues. Dunno something to create buzz about the server. Maybe relaunch with teams and give everyone a one time race change, but do it blind or something without people knowing how teams will work out to cut down on Zerg guilds. Maybe release some of the revamp zones on red early such as chardok 2.0 fear and hate revamp and stonebrunt / warrens.

Anything short of a major relaunch is just more bandaids on a nuclear war victim. They're appreciated, they're needed, but they aren't going to attract any truly new players, just bring back the same 10-25 people over and over who play and quit again.

You also have the issue of "Zerg" guilds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how it could be combatted but I don't think there's a true solution other than item loot, and a non classic reward system for pvp victory. People want pixels and will always flock to where they can get pixels, unless you provide an alternate way of obtaining pixels they will keep on joining wherever they can get them.

Tl;dr minor changes and fixes are nice but you need a complete relaunch/major overhaul to ever pass that 200 pop mark again.

who hacked your forum account? agree with all of this

[Stasis01]

I think we need teams - the end game raid scene is covered, every raid mob killed within seconds of being up within its cheesey non variance rotation.

What the server lacks entirely is community. If I make an alt I am getting ganked by rage bringer rogue/fungi twinks, snubbed for groups by soloers, unsure who my allies/enemies are in zones and overall really solo feel to the game. Teams creates a friendlier attitude within your team and prevents ship jumping, considering how one sided it is I can't really blame anyone for jumping to Nihilum - or quitting.

I am OK with the losers of the community getting all raid mobs, I suppose, but this server lacks every other aspect that made live fun and some changes messing around with it is just what the box needs to put life into it, what the fuck do we have to lose Sirken. Try putting in some teams code, and/or variance - the box is a terrible very low population wasteland of pure griefers, which the ruleset is completely favored for.

No variance, No teams = one guild crushing all others, and people flocking to it - people aren't going to help level people/build a guild man, they all just jump to Nihilum and it's happening again with the few azrael/force that don't want to quit, or are tired of fighting the fight - Nihilum could recruit like 10 level 60's from all of this.

People say that the other side just requires leadership and blah da blah blah blah all bullshit and lies, the ruleset makes the community like this and no one could have predicted this.

[Stasis01]

Another HUGE bonus would be to just allow boxing - everyone's doing it anyway to PL up their fucking toon, instead of just openly doing it with boxed clerics/enchanters/porters since they're rare as fuck if you're not in Nihilum.

Make some rule boxing allowed up till a certain population would be a major bonus.

[heartbrand]

I'm a big proponent of boxing and I think it could easily destroy Zerg guilds. Right now people know if you're not in nihilum there's no way you can truly contest and kill content, even if its not even being contested at times. With boxing I can load in the clerics, the box shaman and chanter etc and I don't need 30 neckbeards to raid. If I don't need 30 neckbeards to raid why would I ever be guilded with 100 people? Answer is I probably wouldn't be. There would be a shit load more competition at the end game, a lot more groups, etc. Boxing could save this server.

Variance I just can't disagree more for all the reasons I mentioned prior, BUT if boxing were to be enabled I think then variance might be viable.

[Silikten]

Variance ensures one guild having to actually try harder to hold down raid mobs. This would allow some to be missed due to random hours of the night spawns.

[Agatha]

i really dont think its fair to nihilum who have spent 1+ year dedicating there time to keeping any other opposition from getting dragons to have it taken away from them by a GM.

Thats just my 2 cents. stop being lazy and take it from them legit.

[heartbrand]

I really don't want this to turn into another variance debate, but assuming the landscape of the server is unchanged, there's no guild capable of having ranger and monk alts 24/7 at all mob spawns and then bat phoning 20 people on at any hour of the day like nihilum is. Every kill the opposition guilds have gotten has been because there's no variance, I.e they were able to plan ahead of time and set up and mob overlap. If the landscape were to fundamentally change here then perhaps there might be some truth to variance. All it would be without that is basically a "tax" on nihilum to make being a neckbeard even worse.

[Fame]

Beyond resists, which do need fixing, fundamentally the server is "fine". Exp is boosted plenty at this point, we have YT and a Leaderboard, etc. The server stinks because there aren't enough people. Why aren't there enough people? Because the launch was botched and countless questionable decisions were made combined with the year and a half it took to get stuff like increased xp, YT, etc.

All of the goodwill and first impressions have been used up. This server needs a combo of blue transfers and a "relaunch." Does a relaunch mean wipe? Personally I wouldn't mind a wipe but I think you could market a relaunch. What is a relaunch? Give a two week huge exp boost, classic items dropping again, launch it with fixed resists and the other long needed changes. Perhaps a one time amnesty to accounts banned for non MQ issues. Dunno something to create buzz about the server. Maybe relaunch with teams and give everyone a one time race change, but do it blind or something without people knowing how teams will work out to cut down on Zerg guilds. Maybe release some of the revamp zones on red early such as chardok 2.0 fear and hate revamp and stonebrunt / warrens.

Anything short of a major relaunch is just more bandaids on a nuclear war victim. They're appreciated, they're needed, but they aren't going to attract any truly new players, just bring back the same 10-25 people over and over who play and quit again.

You also have the issue of "Zerg" guilds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how it could be combatted but I don't think there's a true solution other than item loot, and a non classic reward system for pvp victory. People want pixels and will always flock to where they can get pixels, unless you provide an alternate way of obtaining pixels they will keep on joining wherever they can get them.

Tl;dr minor changes and fixes are nice but you need a complete relaunch/major overhaul to ever pass that 200 pop mark again.

I'm behind this too. Thanks for writing it out hb

[Colgate]

vztz was better in every single way

[lite]

variance

http://cdn.meme.li/i/o7h59.jpg

[Visual]

Might have something to do with not being able to anon on vztz. Could always find a fight.

R99 just ain't fun. Can't quite put my finger on it

[mtb tripper]

gotta have them pussys come from the dark

[Stasis01]

i really dont think its fair to nihilum who have spent 1+ year dedicating there time to keeping any other opposition from getting dragons to have it taken away from them by a GM.

Thats just my 2 cents. stop being lazy and take it from them legit.

This is probably the mind set of Sirken and other GM's and it's what bothers me the most about red99. Previous to this my experience was if a box became stale or the competition was boring people would stop logging in allowing other crews to take over and then produce pvp - or it was wiped and something new came out fresh to fight over and conquer.

On red99.... the guild plays for the raid mobs, theee fuuuuck. You show up and press auto attack when the mob is pulled, for hours. And it's never going to change, for years. EQEMU pvp is going to be a disgusting one blue guild box instead of recycling into new ideas/fun pvp. Everyone will be too worried about the no lifers mental state that this can never be a living project until it becomes successful, it will just cater to the small % of people from live that gave their lives to the game, and they can relive that super elite top guild feeling that gave their lives purpose, clowns.

[STILLnotMORNIN]

OMG.






WHO
THE
HELL
CARES

[runlvlzero]

This is probably the mind set of Sirken and other GM's and it's what bothers me the most about red99. Previous to this my experience was if a box became stale or the competition was boring people would stop logging in allowing other crews to take over and then produce pvp - or it was wiped and something new came out fresh to fight over and conquer.

On red99.... the guild plays for the raid mobs, theee fuuuuck. You show up and press auto attack when the mob is pulled, for hours. And it's never going to change, for years. EQEMU pvp is going to be a disgusting one blue guild box instead of recycling into new ideas/fun pvp. Everyone will be too worried about the no lifers mental state that this can never be a living project until it becomes successful, it will just cater to the small % of people from live that gave their lives to the game, and they can relive that super elite top guild feeling that gave their lives purpose, clowns.

Feels that way. You either invest 16 hrs or you do the Chewie and Gustoo thing. Even they have invested gobs of time into this game. There's no reason to play for a bit and remain low level or enjoy the journey.

[Agatha]

http://assets.diylol.com/hfs/648/9b4/8f8/resized/lizard-meme-generator-keep-trying-de8d23.jpg?1330016800.jpg

[Clark]

I think it is to late in this servers history to make any changes that would encourage a large population increase.
One thing that would promote the health of the server is making a cap to the number of players allowed in one guild.
A wipe is the only real answer to get a large number of new players to try red99.

[Lurgort/Sseri]

I played on VZTZ and just began on Red1999, I recently leveled my Shaman to 49 and I've made some friends who I group with on a regular basis. On the other side of the coin, I've ran amok of a few people who ganked me while canned down 40+% hp after soloing some stuff, such is the life of a Shaman.

VZTZ was great, because there were several guilds competing with each other - whether it be PvP, or for killing Trakanon, or Inny, or CT. There were 10 v 10 - 20 v 20 guild on guild fights, probably due to the large experience bonus in combination with not being able to hide under an anon tag. Everyone could see who was in a zone, and as they leveled up, made friends who then made guilds together. Lots of fun PVP all the way up to level 60 on VZTZ. I had my epic, pox, bane, and I think I also had torpor, too. I was relied on by my guildmates to provide them potions, or be an integral part in group PVP.

P99 red is just one guild who is monopolizing every single raid mob, resulting in a huge gear gap between people who want to even fight them, and they just end up absorbing the people who give up and want to join Nihilum. Everyone else has seemed to have either taken a big hiatus to see what the health of the server is going to be like, or are doing other things like WoW Emu - I would truly like to see this place become a thriving community like VZTZ was, I had fun during classic, and even more when they released Kunark.

A lot of great ideas in this thread, in particular heartbrand's struck me as a great way to inject more population into our RED box. There's 1000+ on Blue, a lot of them might check out red if the "relaunch" happens, and if the server passes 250 population at peak of REGULAR players, I think the server will begin to renew its playerbase over time until perhaps 400-500 - think of all of the action when Velious hits with those numbers. Kael, Skyshrine, or Thurgadin aligned guilds all duking it out in the icy wastelands of Velious.

It would be pretty fantastic if this all happened, get to work boys.

[Bogart]

Every competitive game I've played people always zerg for an advantage. I think some type of item loot, and removing rules like no training/no ninja looting would allow smaller forces to have more impact, and make the server less stagnant.

[mtb tripper]

mwaha jew

[runlvlzero]

Yet because of the nature of the game people will always gravitate towards one side "in the war".

I think direct GM involvement on both sides in player conflict, make it the GM metagame. Is the only solution to fixing that statgnation. And MUD like features. Changing the nature of the game. But thats not classic EQ 99.

[s1ckness]

A wipe will chase away more people that it will bring it

would chase like 50 nihilum away and 20 ish non nilly..

would bring 200plus back id think

[mtb tripper]

would chase like 50 nihilum away and 20 ish non nilly..

would bring 200plus back id think

what this guy said ^

[Thrilla]

I still occasionally login but been pretty inactive last 3 months or so.. server is boring as hell and has been for awhile, there are a few factors that contribute.

Red99 is basically a blue server with PvP enabled, it isn't pvp centric at all. Few things that could help it if it were tweaked:

- I really liked a LoZ feature that allowed you to /who all a zone and would tell you how many players were in it. I can say even as a Wizard porting around trying to find PvP is boring as hell.
- If you do happen to find PvP most people like to fight 5 ft from the zone line so if they're in trouble, they bail and plug. Any anti-plug code would be amazing, something simple like if the client detects a disconnect between zones it puts the PC on the zone they were zoning out to helpless for 2-3 mins (enough for a kill) to deter people from the very thing they're trying to so desperately avoid. Even broadcasting a plug, having the server OOC the person that "lost connection" and the last PC that casted on it, some shame in plugging.
- Clickies, trak tooths, even gate pots either make them insanely expensive and rare or take them out completely. You really don't need to die now if you don't want to with the t-staff nerfed.
- Get rid of the R99 forums completely, the smallish community makes certain that even the most insignificant death will be heard and storied on the forums, this type of behavior obviously makes people play more conservative and makes PvP less fun imo.
- I'd like to think Velious would help, giving players a solid Velious expac that many haven't seen could bring back people but I don't think it will solve the overall issues that plague this server.
- Make 2boxing legal on Red99, it could give the smaller underdog guilds a better opportunity to do raid content and it would bring in more players overall.

[heartbrand]

I'm not against a wipe in theory, but I personally don't think I care enough about EQ at this point to play again here if there were one after the initial two week noob fun fest, especially when it would be going against WoW 5.4 patch / EQ3.

[Agatha]

I still occasionally login but been pretty inactive last 3 months or so.. server is boring as hell and has been for awhile, there are a few factors that contribute.

Red99 is basically a blue server with PvP enabled, it isn't pvp centric at all. Few things that could help it if it were tweaked:

- I really liked a LoZ feature that allowed you to /who all a zone and would tell you how many players were in it. I can say even as a Wizard porting around trying to find PvP is boring as hell.
- If you do happen to find PvP most people like to fight 5 ft from the zone line so if they're in trouble, they bail and plug. Any anti-plug code would be amazing, something simple like if the client detects a disconnect between zones it puts the PC on the zone they were zoning out to helpless for 2-3 mins (enough for a kill) to deter people from the very thing they're trying to so desperately avoid.
- Get rid of the R99 forums completely, the smallish community makes certain that even the most insignificant death will be heard and storied on the forums, this type of behavior obviously makes people play more conservative and makes PvP less fun imo.
- I'd like to think Velious would help, giving players a solid Velious expac that many haven't seen could bring back people but I don't think it will solve the overall issues that plague this server.
- Make 2boxing legal on Red99, it could give the smaller underdog guilds a better opportunity to do raid content and it would bring in more players overall.

better be careful and get that raid attendance up bro, i have certain assurances if you dont log in for a bit i get to app.

[runlvlzero]

- Get rid of the R99 forums completely, the smallish community makes certain that even the most insignificant death will be heard and storied on the forums, this type of behavior obviously makes people play more conservative and makes PvP less fun imo.


LOL oooh you mean laughing stocks of the server which are still playing every single night?.lol Erm... and other Nihilums...

[Thrilla]

better be careful and get that raid attendance up bro, i have certain assurances if you dont log in for a bit i get to app.

Haven't needed anything on my main since March, have @ it you wouldn't be the first and certainly not the last person who used to be opposition to join, cold hard facts when you try to run essentially a PvE first guild.

Truth of the matter is that if content didn't run just through Nihilum the overall server health and competition would be a lot better. Until a dedicated playerbase with a dedicated leader ala Nizzar show up and play I don't think we'll ever have a pvp centric box. I give kudos to all the hardcore players that go the hard underdog route, but reality is that 75% of them that don't burn out and quit end up apping to Nihilum anyway. I can name at least 3-4 on our app board right now.

[Colgate]

red99 will never be saved as long as rogaine has master control and the rest of the staff cant agree on certain policies that arent completely fucking retarded(looking at you, ephi)

[mtb tripper]

lookout colgate you may get yourself a booting poatareega

[Xantille]

Though I haven't played in months, I agree with Heartbrand and Thrilla's postz.

[Agatha]

Though I haven't played in months, I agree with Heartbrand and Thrilla's postz.

confirmed by gongshow, has been in nihi over 6 months and uses voice mod. busted.

[Xantille]

confirmed by gongshow, has been in nihi over 6 months and uses voice mod. busted.

NAW NAW

[mtb tripper]

hey xantille

[runlvlzero]

I like HB's little rants but Thrilla just sounds troll who wants everyone to play the game like their in Nihilum. He wants 2x or 3x Nihilums on the box. Would be a wet dream come true for him.

[Agatha]

NAW NAW

i think if the 20 of us that actually came clean about our nihi voice mod chars, and just broke off and went to the rebels instead of devoting so much time to those chars. We could actually have a fun server.

edit: i personally have had moments were i just wasn't having fun pvping with azrael/classic and i logged onto my nihi toon, got ported to were the pvp was at and did it from that side. not to be a dick or anything but just cause they sucked and it was frustrating.

[Colgate]

would know if xant played cause right now there isn't a single melee in nihilum that i think is a good jouster other than gongshow

[mtb tripper]

what about nizz jr

[Aenor]

Tl;dr minor changes and fixes are nice but you need a complete relaunch/major overhaul to ever pass that 200 pop mark again.

Post of the Year.

[Loli Pops]

Transsexual ism is not a choice.

[mostbitter]

boxing did make it a LOT more fun. Boxing is fairly rampant here as it is, might as well not punish the people who are willing to play by the rules and allow it.

[runlvlzero]

I agree. I don't box because I'm honorable as fucking hell. But I know MANY who do. Nothing implied here. They aren't even forumquesters. If I could box I would have more fun maybe. At least I would invite much more dps into my lil melee/cleric duo (and no not with Miria) I would roll a new cleric.

No I will not rat them out as that would also be dishonorable. It is not my duty to stop people from boxing when I am fairly indifferent to the rule. I am most certainly not lawful (even if I follow the rules myself). Therefore its perfectly honorable for me to not get them in trouble.

There is no law here anyway... I am not interested in cheating/exploiting. I don't feel like boxing is cheating or exploiting. Just a dumb ideology enforced loosely like in the USA how you can be arrested and jailed for ALMOST ANYTHING.

[Cid]

I have a sincere question.

Why does everyone bring up Nihilum's advantage in gear and control as the major negative of the server?

Almost every single other person either bailed on the server or got banned. I ran across continents and didn't see anyone. There are far more voices bitching about this being the main detractor of the server than there were playing prior to Kunark.
The advantages Nihilum has because they spent all that time raiding is also likely the only reason the Red server still exists.

Are you truly and honestly mad at Nihilum because they are ruining what you think a pvp server should be, or because of what they have done to you ingame? I've gotten to see how deep down the animosity against Nihilum goes.

They can be beaten. It's not a matter of leadership or whatever else, it's a lack of experience and cohesion with one another. If you have 12 people who know and like each other and have months/years worth of experience playing together, you can accomplish an incredible amount in EQ.
Along with 5 friends I made a guild on the Live servers and we took casual players with little or no raid experience and after a few months, often frustrating months, they became a well-oiled machine and accomplished more than I expected.

It takes months to work like that, and if you aren't prepared to wait that long I hear there's a WoW emu that will give you instant gratification. Everytime you guys start to get better as a unit, I log in and there's been some catastrophic event and either there's a mass exodus or the whole guild is gone and there are 2-3 new guilds.

There are a ton of new players. I know this better than anyone. Stop killing them and start training them to fight. If some people spent half the effort improving the guild that they do trying to show off their e-dicks in ooc, everyone would be the better for it. Find your core of loyal, determined and dedicated players and build around them.

I constantly go out of my way to help everyone I can, almost always at my own expense. I've PLed people I'd never met, I've given out tens of thousands in pp and gear to new players because a little help and encouragement goes a long way when that person wonder if it's worth it to keep playing. I can't help them all, or remember them all, but I doing more than my share to benefit the server.

You may dislike my method of operation, you may irrationally hate me because I am friends with Northwest and always will be, and you may even detest me because I play a halfling and midgets are low to the ground and therefore closer to Satan, but it's ok, I'll get over it.


I play on a damn dial-up connection (Who's classic now, huh?) and I have done whatever I could to improve the server without it benefitting me in any way. What the fuck have you done that wasn't in your own interests?

[runlvlzero]

I love me some good fiction.

[Handpartytowel]

just replace r99 with vztz entirely since it was better and more fun in every way.

[Colgate]

yes

[Motec]

I'd like to give an outsider, blue player perspective.

I love world PVP. I enjoy EQ PVP a lot. Lets make that clear right now.

Red 99, is full of absolute scum of the EQ community.
Before the server can get better, attitudes existing must change.

Who would want to play there, when every single thread, of every single section in their message board is filled with gifs, 9000 kill shot screenshots, random "u mad" versions of gifs, and what manner of other weird shit.

The first impression is purely of spiteful, arrogant cunts who exist there. And I know the server isn't 100% these people, but 100% of the initial impression is that it is. Why would I want to play somewhere that has a community who have absolute zero interest except for the largest possible consequence for their actions.

If you kill someone on red99, not only is YT not enough, but you need to spam the screenshot button 25x, post it on the forums, with screenshots of all the arse slapping in the changerooms, and revert to "UMAD" as only further discourse. Out of this daily occurance, half of them then continue to explain about the bind camping.

Cheating, zone line pvp, boxing, gayt pots, /anon/role all add up to a sub par pvp experience. The only people who benefit are those who actively grief others. Pvp server is not about griefing people, it's about picking a fight to take some territory, and the loser having a little candour about it. But on red99, no respect exists amongst the people who play.

Red99 no longer appeals to me (having played some friends chars there) based solely on the fact that PVP is avoided by all but griefers, because if you do want some honest fighting you end up spammed on a board, bind camped, and shit talked. Why would I want a fight, if thats not how I want to play. I dare say the vast majority of 'contenders' for playing red99 who don't currently or anymore also share this animosity towards the dickheads who exist solely for attention.

Now Red99 is obviously going to favour the hardcore in its current ruleset and GM involvement, so you always are going to attract the dick measurers, forumquesters, neckbeards and PVE statjockeys. So the next step is to change the ruleset and environment.

After an attitude change at the very core of how the server interacts with each other, the environment in which they interact needs to suit. What is wrong with the environment?

Well for a start the game is played solo by all, because they go out of their way to avoid said pvp. So remove the ability to be anon/role completely. Going anon only solves one single purpose in EQ and that is to raid PVE in relative secrecy of location. Why encourage secret PVE when instead instead you should be encouraging interdependency, communication and a forewarning of griefing.

People play solo because they cant who all X and have a chat, get groups happening.
People play solo because they cant keep an eye on where people are. Your 'friends' list (cunts who want to grief you) is useless as you dont know where they are.
People play solo because you have an equal chance of being PK'd on interaction as you do of grouping, because the only people left on red are the aformentioned fuckwits and PVE'ers, or PVE alts.

The environment is punishing on red of those who want to level, group, develop friendships, guilds and a have fair fights. Why should the environment be punishing as the basis for all interaction, its a PVP server. The player and his interactions with other players should be punishing based on a choice made. Right now that choice is made for you by the attitudes of the players here and the rules in place that allow griefing to thrive above all else.

The rules in place at the moment favour a better geared gank, than a game of cat and mouse to slug it out when you can track others across zones on /who. It removes a lot of the thinking involved in staying alive which is just as important as the fight itself. Existing and thriving on on a PVP server should involve a lot more to winning (or not dieing) than runspeed, zonelines, clickies. It should be intellectual, requiring strategy and thought before you even have to fight. Being able to see who you can go after, and vice versa enhances gameplay and introduces interdependency in the community.

The fixes I think you'll see proposed will revolve around removing power from a guild of players who PVE. Fuck that. They earned their spot at the top because they played the most and had the aspiration. The fact they just turned into TMOred is only because they also absorbed every retard with a dialup and pentium II or better to play.

I read with great interest, and played around on red at the beginning with all of the fun drama some of the notable names and the shit that went on. Then it...didnt stop. Every day another circle jerk UMAD post, 4000 kittens through the boards, the absolute most mundane shit talk possible. PVP evolved through the vocality of a minority into the actions of a majority. Soon everyone was being a fucking douche, in the space of a few weeks I went from enjoying the server to bailing simply because the foul attitudes streamed down. Those without humility and respect spread like a virus. This forced people to drop all morals and cheat like motherfuckers, again just destroying the integrity of the server. More than once I hung around people who instasuccored to zone line etc. What the fuck is the point of playing a high risk game like eq, when PVE death is trivialised by cheating and PVP death is punished by ridicule.

Dont know how it's like now without the anti cheat code. But from browsing the forums daily it certainly looks like nothing has changed, and a FUCKLOAD of people have bailed on the project. Infact, P99red is a complete failure.

TOOPS sleeper SERVER HAS MORE ACTIVE PLAYERS. Thats how bad red99 is.

I would play on a red99 that had a few key changes.

Attitudes:
1. Remove all pictures from signatures on forums and any gifs and avatars from appearing in the pvp section of forum.
2. Make forum based infractions affect login server, and vice versa. Clean up this mess.
3. Encourage interdependency and affiliations. and I'd like to hear the communities thoughts.

Environment:
4. Basic ruleset change to teams. The far more experienced pvp guys from sz will likely provide a synopsis of advantages and how to best divide for gameplay benefit.
5. Remove anon and roleplay. Encourage community and intellectual, alert play.
6. Allow training in solusek b, perma, sebilis, VP...basically anywhere there is a raid zone. Fuck PVE'ers, batphones etc. Train the living shit out of eachother.
7. Group XP bonuses. double them.

General changes:
8. I like the idea of a soft re-launch, but only if you implimented the kunark launch era 'classic trivial loot code' and had those items dropping off level appropriate NPC's under level 50, to bring people back to the game.
9. XP bonus...more. If XP is lost on death still, up the rate. Or griefers win not only at being cunts, but by driving people off the server.
10. Introduce rez xp gain from pvp deaths. Same reasoning as above. Let the server environment support the less than neckbeard 12hr a day players. why would someone who plays 4 hours a day want to play here when they lose 3 hours of it in two PK's at 10 at night?

But my most prudent point is about server staff interaction. Have some GM events ffs.


I could go on a fair while, but I think it's important to note that the vocal minority helped completely fuck this server, and the vocal minority destroyed the attitude on it from before it was even launched on the forums.

The vocal minority are made up of your playerbase of 30-50 active P99 red players. So how about you tell them to fuck off and listen to the advice and ideas of those who WANT to play there and wont because its filled with fuckwits, and has a ruleset and governance that promotes PVE as a means to PVP end, not the other way around.

A lot of guys a lot more pvp experienced than me can probably comment on some item restrictions or removals that also should exist as a means to encourage the newer/lower serverpops.

[Motec]

Also boxing could be a cool option. Can someone explain what the negatives are?

[Colgate]

you have incredibly thin skin

no wonder you hate red99

[runlvlzero]

Actually Motec the dickslapping is the only reason people play here at all. If we treated the game seriously we'd burn out extremely fast and never ever try coming back. It is candor that you are ranting about. But not the typical kind of candor your use to. The worst thing is to make a post on these forums and be completely ignored, or not even reacted to at all in game. Thats like the lowest of the low.

[Motec]

you have incredibly thin skin

no wonder you hate red99

Not really I dont think. But compared to you lot at the top end of red, yes I do. I really dont have the time or patience to put up with forumquesting in equal parts dedication and timesink as playing the actual game.

And your server population seems to think that a good proportion of other folk also feel similar or could agree with some or a majority of my points considering the very broad stroke I just brushed.

When it comes down to it, there's a few of you with no jobs, no life, and have been committed to this game for years and are in a vicious cycle living vicariously through your characters triumph. Maybe the same cant be said for the majority, and that majority has spoken in droves of footsteps out the door. People just dont want to put up with that kind of shit, I'd imagine the average age is 28-35 here and most guys I know just cant be fucked anymore.

The vocal atmosphere is toxic, and if population numbers and empirical evidence based on a fairly logarithmic trend of people leaving and forum description of the high end play is accurate then I'd be fairly certin in saying there is a problem that needs addressing. Root cause analysis is something I dabble in (and get paid a lot for) and if I had to put my finger on a cause it would be the players being forced to play that way, due to the environment and ruleset they are shoehorned in to.

So I digress, I dont think I'm particularly thin skinned. Just certainly not at a level of ambivalence tending towards narcissism and straight out misanthropy that is abundant on red99 towards your fellow players. It's as if there is an end in sight to the server and double parking on your neighbours car, cutting off your friends in traffic and speeding somehow gets you to a podium, when in reality the server has potential to be one really long drive thats enjoyable by a majority not a minority.

Why make player attrition the key attibute, where survival of the fittest the name of the game when that very specific gameplay actually shortens the life of a server; and more importantly it makes being better than everyone else at PVP an inconsequential achievement when your playerbase is 40 not 400. Isnt being the best the whole point of a PVP server, when you can dictate on your terms what you want by killing others? Why go so much further and drive them off the server in the process.

When's all said and done, at this rate nihilum, and a few individuals can admire their crowns while the tumbleweeds fly past; because no manastones and rubicite dropping is going to encourage people to go through all this shit again when the core problem isnt addressed.

[runlvlzero]

The banter is really not the primary problem with the server, its how people cope with how broken the pixels are and how jaded they are. To some degree your right. But honestly. Even on my cleric, I could stand to be in the same zone with the "other side" and we could get along like pals.

The game is stale and certainly the endgame focus on raiding rather then gentlemanly or sportly pvp is not helping though. Even things like the BoTB are colored by it. But this comes from a long standing bravado and machismo that was earned by the participants. If I participated in a BoTB my name is not so well known that I would be trolled or flamed into oblivion on the forums... (Not that cleric BoTB would have any meaning).

But people like Nizzar... (I use his name, because well, he has many gifs, and animations devoted to him) well. They are very much celebrities for all the shit talking and underhanded competitive tactics they used in the past, and present.

So when they fall. They tend to fall harder then your average joe.

The other side of your rant could equally be applied to "bluebies" who come on the board with an opinion contary to 14 years of elf simulator experience and cry about some aspect of the game which needs to be fixed, but is not broken, or go against the opinion of vocal veterans and tend to get roflstomped or laughed into oblivion (hey drakar, item loot is boss, try it before you knock it). But thats life... then again for every douchebag theres at least 10 who try to be cool about it. But hey I am pretty chill and I even loose my shit at some of the retards on these forums a lil (not really) hardly the worst I ever do is call people childish names and /ignore them

So what your seeing in hostile flamewars is really a symptom of deeper problems with the server. I would say playing on the box for awhile and getting comfortable with the way the game works here would illustrate the deeper issues. You cant just log in a few peoples toons and play for a bit. You have to devote time and energy then see how the pieces of the puzzle fall together.

You will understand why people forumquest so hard sometimes then. I say sometimes, because theres exceptions to the rule and I think some people are genuinely nuts =)

[Aenor]

"Red 99, is full of absolute scum of the EQ community.
Before the server can get better, attitudes existing must change."

That's as far as I got. To have a dangerous world where you have the more intense experience of having to watch your back and having to suffer the consequences of your actions, you have to have a world where the absolute scum run free. Otherwise, go play WoW where PvP is instanced and consensual and you can't talk to the opposition.

This is why GM intervention in banning holo destroyed the server. Holo were the bad guys... the scum... the poop sockers saw themselves as the good guys and entitled to farm the high end content uncontested. Nizzar has said straight up, if anyone challenges them they will recruit as many numbers as it takes so they can't be challenged. There aren't enough numbers here for anyone to mount a resistance, and who's really trying since the devs banned the resistance for taking the same action as Nihilum?

The problem isn't bad attitudes among the players. The problem is Rogean destroyed a large part of the limited interest in this server by showing blatant favoritism toward known RMTers.

[Aenor]

And the only solution is a reroll, which I proposed, offered to make a large donation to make happen, and Sirken has already stated will not happen. I appreciate that Sirken is trying to look for solutions. But the damage is already done. The server will always have a certain amount of interest but once you look behind the curtain and see the wizard of oz banning certain cheaters while coddling others, you can't ever return to the illusion of a level playing field.

The only way to restore that illusion is by launching a new server... not a wipe... let all 300 nihilum members keep their server and farm pixels uncontested. That's what they want, let them have it. But launch a second server with a classic ruleset such as race war or rallos zek... warts and all, keep it classic. Make the xp 300% and the timeline double the rate of an historical server timeline and make it item loot. State up front that there will be very limited GM intervention.

Then all the scum with bad attitudes will go to that server and have a blast. Nihilum will have a server where they can farm dragons with no competition, which is exactly what they want. People with good attitudes can choose Nihilum's server or blue and won't have to interact with the scum with bad attitudes. Problem solved.

[Motec]

When I say the banter is bad, you should understand that to established players it is fine. Encouraged even.

But how does the server appear from the outside, or from blue players? I'll answer it for you, it looks fucked. Plain and simple fucked. Like I would be wasting my breath to want to play there and associate with the scum of the EMU community who are very loud, very vocal and very dedicated to their craft based solely on the boards. But between yourselves, fuckin A, its an unwritten law to rub some salt into the wounds on a board now and then....but the key there is moderation. The distinct lack of technical discussion alongside is also a telltale I'd surmise could distinctly change the perception of the server if changed (at least in ratio to shit talking).

That's all from me about it though, not my world to comment more than an outsiders perspective and I hope some of it made sense, and hope more the server can find a medium that is sustainable, high pop and allows people like me to want to play there. I'm you're target audience, a fiercely competitive, technically knowledgable, time rich and change from the status quo seeking player on blue. Before building mountains one must lay a foundation; but ask yourselves what needs to change and what do you need to action? Simply telling sirken/rogean that ephi is a useless cunt (arguable at times I've heard), rules are fucked, and no teams is fail wont fix your population and longevity concerns; nor will it make sirken, rogean and the rest of the crew between GM and Dev want to spend their volunteer hours helping to fix it when they know the players wont change anyway. Probably an analogy about rehabilitation after prison I could use to convey the point, use your imagination.

Because I am on pvp forums I am supposed to post a photo. Hope I fit in.
http://tinyurl.com/lpx48vf

Good luck all, hope to see you all there one day when it looks like a hospitable place for some good pvp and some new folks play with.

[Aenor]

Hope more the server can find a medium that is sustainable, high pop and allows people like me to want to play there.

Motec, I would love it if there was a server where you and I would both want to play. You seem like a stand up guy. Your graphic was hilarious. So here are some facts.

1. Rogean feeds hamsters

2. We are the hamsters

3. Rogean fed the hamsters rat poison

4. Rogean said "oh shit... I killed most of the hamsters... I like hamsters!"

5. Rogean began to wonder, how can I get more hamsters after I killed off most of the hamster population?

So now we've identified the issue. Rogean cut off his nose to spite his face. Whether he's getting kickbacks from RMT, at the very least the one benefit he stands to gain for all his efforts is an audience. And he killed most of that audience.

I write for ESPN TrueHoop Network. I don't get paid for it, but my site is linked by ESPN.com and that gives me an audience. I love it when people post comments on my site saying I don't know shit about basketball. I would rather have people tell me I'm an idiot than wonder if anybody is reading any of it. I like having an audience.

Keep in mind, I was Cynthia in Nihilum. I had enough raid attendance that I was getting loot. I quit immediately after Kunark release because I never saw PvP. Poopsocking raid content uncontested did not interest me. I'm stating all this publicly so even if I remember Cynthia's password eventually, I won't be welcomed back.

Now Sirken wants to discuss the relative merits of Red99 and VZTZ. Well, I can tell you straight up, the GMs showed favoritism to the cheaters in the top guilds on both servers and punished the cheaters in the challenging guilds on both servers. The difference, and what made VZTZ so much more entertaining, were the regular wipes. Yes, the GMs showed favoritism to the dominant guild. But the dominant guild didn't stay dominant forever because there would always be a wipe and a fresh opportunity to race to the top and have real competition.

There will NEVER be competition on Red99. Any possibility for that was destroyed by Rogean's rat poison. But do you want to know why a third server won't happen?

It's not because it would cost Rogean money, because if he announced it today he would have over $1000 in donations by the end of the day. It's not because P99 lacks the staffing because the idea of a third server would be extremely limited GM/developer intervention.

The reason a third server will not happen is because it would take Nihilum's audience away. I said earlier they want a server with no competition but that was hyperbole. What's the point of uncontested poopsocking when there is nobody around to be jealous of your uberness? If a third server with a race war or rallos ruleset with item loot was launched, nobody would be jealous of Nihilum... we'd all be laughing at Nihilum on our 600+ population server while we had a blast competing with each other.

Nobody would pay $100-300 for a CoF or a fungi on a server where you could lose it to PvP. The market for RMT would bottom out. With 300% xp and a double-speed timeline we would plow through the content and everybody could reach max level and compete over raid content. Nihilum would lose its membership because everybody would be playing on the fun server. That's why it will never happen.

[Sirken]

so i appreciate all the well written constructive feed back. your walls of text are not going unread. as a grown up, im not scared of paragraphs. so thanks!

as it gets closer to thursday ill shoot some PMs to some players to see if they would want to join me. if players enjoy it we will do it again later on, and that will allow me to shuffle in different players to get more points of view.

<3
Sirks

[Aenor]

Just in case my hamster analogy inspires Rogean to realize "hmm... I like hamsters... I'd rather have 600 hamsters than only 100 hamsters," let me make one last suggestion for a theoretical third server.

State at launch that the server is not permanent. State that, once the server has gone through a double-speed timeline all the way to velious, there will be a vote every 6 months after velious release asking if the players want a wipe. As soon as the majority of the population says they want a wipe, it all starts over.

That way the current red and blue servers remain the only permanent servers. Rogean promised there would never be a wipe, and he doesn't want to fail at keeping that promise. He doesn't have to. Make a separate, non-permanent server with an accelerated timeline and double xp rate and let the players know up front their toons can eventually be wiped by popular demand.

[Aenor]

The one other thing that would make a server's integrity beyond question would be to make the character database public. If there was a way to automatically port it into a Magelo database so everybody could see every piece of gear on every character on the server, any RMT would be identified by the population immediately. Ok seriously that's my last post for this morning. Off work in 30 and going to sleep.

[Aenor]

"So remove the ability to be anon/role completely."

This.

[heartbrand]

I'm a huge nba fanatic and follow like every beat writer ever on twitter. Must know who you are immediately.

[Agatha]

I'm a huge nba fanatic and follow like every beat writer ever on twitter. Must know who you are immediately.

Do not do this, incoming 6 paragraph responses to you're twitter comments.

[Nyrod]

it blows my mind that people have so many delusional ideas about how to "fix" this server.

if there has been 45 ideas stated i have only seen 1 or 2 that even have any shred understanding about EQ pvp EMU's. what the hell is wrong with you people? oh yeah, most of you still holding onto a pipe dream.

its the same "problem" with this server. people.

good luck "fixing" them.

cant hardcore changes that force people to do something different then what they want to do.

the only reason things were any better on vztz was because there was enough people willing to compete against the "big bad guild" but the reality is at this point the "resistance" is tired. there's always chance for a second wind.

wiping a server is ignorant unless its seriously broken (hello server isnt THAT broken), it will never accomplish anything, sorry if you disagree but your wrong. been through ~4 of them and its like the 3x exp bonus we just had, pop will spike but it will also hardcore dip. those who stick around are the same people willing to play when exp is 1x or even if no one is on the server.

that said, i think as this is still a beta run, keep going, release velious, let the project keep running so we can learn and when all content is whored out, THEN wipe and for fucks sake dont leave us stuck in classic for 2 yrs, kunark for 2 yrs, make it a set timeline for release.

TLDR fix resists and minor pvp issues, for the sake of all thats holy release Velious

[Aenor]

Heartbrand, I'm not a big fan of yours after I paid you 3k to camp my guise and then you pk'd my wiz... WHILE WE WERE IN THE SAME GUILD... I was too stunned that you attacked me to even fight back or try to escape. But please follow @BuddyGrizzard on Twitter.

[heartbrand]

Lol man what can I say, this server brings out the worst in you, I was the nicest of newbs here originally before ForumQuest changed me. I don't remember the incident but feel free to hit me up anytime should you return for 3k + some shit to help out whatever class you play if you choose to.

[HeisChuck]

Too many holes to plug, the ship has taken too much water already.

[Aenor]

Check out this footage I shot for CBSSports of Glen Rice Jr's hs team getting smoked by Wheeler:

http://www.maxpreps.com/video/watch.aspx?videoid=50d90309-b8c8-4941-a172-e37947792068

Some nice dunks in there.

[Aenor]

Too many holes to plug, the ship has taken too much water already.

Build a new ship.

[Aenor]

you have incredibly thin skin

no wonder you hate red99

He also hates kittens = not legit.

[Kevynne]

Beyond resists, which do need fixing, fundamentally the server is "fine". Exp is boosted plenty at this point, we have YT and a Leaderboard, etc. The server stinks because there aren't enough people. Why aren't there enough people? Because the launch was botched and countless questionable decisions were made combined with the year and a half it took to get stuff like increased xp, YT, etc.

All of the goodwill and first impressions have been used up. This server needs a combo of blue transfers and a "relaunch." Does a relaunch mean wipe? Personally I wouldn't mind a wipe but I think you could market a relaunch. What is a relaunch? Give a two week huge exp boost, classic items dropping again, launch it with fixed resists and the other long needed changes. Perhaps a one time amnesty to accounts banned for non MQ issues. Dunno something to create buzz about the server. Maybe relaunch with teams and give everyone a one time race change, but do it blind or something without people knowing how teams will work out to cut down on Zerg guilds. Maybe release some of the revamp zones on red early such as chardok 2.0 fear and hate revamp and stonebrunt / warrens.

Anything short of a major relaunch is just more bandaids on a nuclear war victim. They're appreciated, they're needed, but they aren't going to attract any truly new players, just bring back the same 10-25 people over and over who play and quit again.

You also have the issue of "Zerg" guilds. I've spent a lot of time thinking about how it could be combatted but I don't think there's a true solution other than item loot, and a non classic reward system for pvp victory. People want pixels and will always flock to where they can get pixels, unless you provide an alternate way of obtaining pixels they will keep on joining wherever they can get them.

Tl;dr minor changes and fixes are nice but you need a complete relaunch/major overhaul to ever pass that 200 pop mark again.

[Kevynne]

I played on VZTZ and just began on Red1999, I recently leveled my Shaman to 49 and I've made some friends who I group with on a regular basis. On the other side of the coin, I've ran amok of a few people who ganked me while canned down 40+% hp after soloing some stuff, such is the life of a Shaman.

VZTZ was great, because there were several guilds competing with each other - whether it be PvP, or for killing Trakanon, or Inny, or CT. There were 10 v 10 - 20 v 20 guild on guild fights, probably due to the large experience bonus in combination with not being able to hide under an anon tag. Everyone could see who was in a zone, and as they leveled up, made friends who then made guilds together. Lots of fun PVP all the way up to level 60 on VZTZ. I had my epic, pox, bane, and I think I also had torpor, too. I was relied on by my guildmates to provide them potions, or be an integral part in group PVP.

P99 red is just one guild who is monopolizing every single raid mob, resulting in a huge gear gap between people who want to even fight them, and they just end up absorbing the people who give up and want to join Nihilum. Everyone else has seemed to have either taken a big hiatus to see what the health of the server is going to be like, or are doing other things like WoW Emu - I would truly like to see this place become a thriving community like VZTZ was, I had fun during classic, and even more when they released Kunark.

A lot of great ideas in this thread, in particular heartbrand's struck me as a great way to inject more population into our RED box. There's 1000+ on Blue, a lot of them might check out red if the "relaunch" happens, and if the server passes 250 population at peak of REGULAR players, I think the server will begin to renew its playerbase over time until perhaps 400-500 - think of all of the action when Velious hits with those numbers. Kael, Skyshrine, or Thurgadin aligned guilds all duking it out in the icy wastelands of Velious.

It would be pretty fantastic if this all happened, get to work boys.

Need vztz xp IMO. Casuals can't play red the way it is currently

[Kevynne]

Red99 is basically a blue server with PvP enabled, it isn't pvp centric at all. Few things that could help it if it were tweaked:

- I really liked a LoZ feature that allowed you to /who all a zone and would tell you how many players were in it. I can say even as a Wizard porting around trying to find PvP is boring as hell.
- I'd like to think Velious would help, giving players a solid Velious expac that many haven't seen could bring back people but I don't think it will solve the overall issues that plague this server.
- Make 2boxing legal on Red99, it could give the smaller underdog guilds a better opportunity to do raid content and it would bring in more players overall.

[Kevynne]

just replace r99 with vztz entirely since it was better and more fun in every way.

[Agatha]

eq high end was never a casual's game though.

But if you want to argue would it be funner making it a casual game, probably.

[Kevynne]

Environment:
4. Basic ruleset change to teams. The far more experienced pvp guys from sz will likely provide a synopsis of advantages and how to best divide for gameplay benefit.
5. Remove anon and roleplay. Encourage community and intellectual, alert play.
6. Allow training in solusek b, perma, sebilis, VP...basically anywhere there is a raid zone. Fuck PVE'ers, batphones etc. Train the living shit out of eachother.
7. Group XP bonuses. double them.

General changes:
8. I like the idea of a soft re-launch, but only if you implimented the kunark launch era 'classic trivial loot code' and had those items dropping off level appropriate NPC's under level 50, to bring people back to the game.
9. XP bonus...more. If XP is lost on death still, up the rate. Or griefers win not only at being cunts, but by driving people off the server.
10. Introduce rez xp gain from pvp deaths. Same reasoning as above. Let the server environment support the less than neckbeard 12hr a day players. why would someone who plays 4 hours a day want to play here when they lose 3 hours of it in two PK's at 10 at night?

But my most prudent point is about server staff interaction. Have some GM events ffs.

[SamwiseRed]

"So remove the ability to be anon/role completely."

This.

your cynthia eh?

do you remember showing me how to get around guk? you taught me how to get to ass/sup without IVU :) good man.

[SamwiseRed]

http://tinyurl.com/lpx48vf

LOL a+

[Kevynne]

Just in case my hamster analogy inspires Rogean to realize "hmm... I like hamsters... I'd rather have 600 hamsters than only 100 hamsters," let me make one last suggestion for a theoretical third server.

State at launch that the server is not permanent. State that, once the server has gone through a double-speed timeline all the way to velious, there will be a vote every 6 months after velious release asking if the players want a wipe. As soon as the majority of the population says they want a wipe, it all starts over.

That way the current red and blue servers remain the only permanent servers. Rogean promised there would never be a wipe, and he doesn't want to fail at keeping that promise. He doesn't have to. Make a separate, non-permanent server with an accelerated timeline and double xp rate and let the players know up front their toons can eventually be wiped by popular demand.

[Kevynne]

http://tinyurl.com/lpx48vf

LOL a+

[Gustoo]

Casuals are going to wash out hard when they get to lvl 60 in 16 hours and begin trying to pharmacy items that take that long.

Agatha is right. Being lvl 60 in eq is far from casual.

[SamwiseRed]

so many things can be said about the server situation and how to improve it. i dont feel like heartbranding this thread with a 27 paragraph response so ill just push for what i want most.

new server

hard coded deity based teams (3 teams SZ style)

that is all.

[Bazia]

I will be flat out honest, I have played on this server since launch and been involved with almost every guild/crew at one point or another.

Right now red feels as dead as it ever has since Kunark was launched, it confuses me because the /who all count will say 70 but the /ooc is dead empty and I can port around all day on my druid and find barely anyone.

It really has a feeling of emptiness lately, I haven't felt it this bad since it was the days of 14 pop during classic when Nihilum was just farming planes on a schedule and no one else was playing other then myself, chewie, salem, and beck.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think this server has ran it's course until at least Velious launch. EXP is p good now, but yet it just feels dead.

If there is still people consistently logging on for 12 hours a day or more 2 months from now to farm when it's this empty I would be surprised.

[Gustoo]

I kind of agree with Bazia.

More EXP won't help.

Anything like a % of server pop limit on guild is ridiculous.

Wiping server promises zero confidence in new PVP box, which will really force all the dedicated psychopaths (that are really important to EQ) to play on blue server.


Whether or not it works is debatable, but I think a 4 lvl pvp range 1-60, and rallos zek item loot rules have the -potential- to make the server have some life.

It deosn't hurt new players at all because new players literally have nothing worth taking.

It hurts nihilum because it means when they PVE in their best gear, they risk at least one of their people getting singled out and killed by a small suicide attack force.

It hurts pk twinks because it means when they log on drunk / high to PK noobs in unrest that they risk losing their fungi or fbss or whatever.

It potentially helps noobs because it means they have something to PVP for.

The twinks are already here, they already stomp noobs. Newbie banded armor and like ivory bracelets aren't something they will be hunted for. They will be hunted as always for the pride of killing people.

But now I and others like me would have reasons to make PK hunters for the fun attempt at attaining some sweet item loot. It would give life to lower levels and a reason for people to play in the lowbie zones, as well as a reason to try to fight people that are stronger than them in the higher zones.

Yes I understand that nihilum has better no drop gear than you do, but they also have better droppable gear that they like to wear. And in Velious there is a lot of good no drop gear for everyone to get, but still a ton of uber droppable stuff that people will want to use, and will have to be careful about using which makes the whole experience more exciting.

Yeah, it might not in the long run fix the server, maybe it will totally back fire somehow, but it is worth trying. The only people that will really hate it are fungi twinks, and everyone else kinda hates them anyways.


For Sirken, My resume is as follows: I quit LIVE rallos zek when augments came out and disabled item loot. I began EMU because I heard about "guildwars pvp server with level 50 max" on some old forum post somewhere. I got EMU all setup and found guildwars server was long gone. I played shards of dalaya because i heard rumors of a PVP server there. I heard rumors of a PVP server from p99 staff and played blue99 in anticipation of R99. I played red 99 beta and burnt out from seeming lack of interest by the staff, and the knowledge that all the time I invest is going to be deleted anyways. Now I look back and see beta as the best red99 experience there ever was, with a lot of high hopes for a grand PVP server and a lot of hilarious guilds running around. I came to red99 launch a month or two late because after beta I quit beta I really was burnt out. By the time I got to red99 people were already moaning about this and that. Since then I have grouped a little bit, and soloed a lot of the way to level 59 as a cleric. I love the server but always feel that I could love it more. I really only want what is best for it, what might make it more fun for people.

I maintain that focusing on getting people to level 60 is not the answer. Level 1-50 is the most important part of the game, level 60 is for the most dedicated players, not casuals that are looking for fun. Low level PVP is for the casual players. Item loot inspires people to pvp at those levels and look for that darker grey chainmail BP. It also stimulates the (now totally dead) server economy in a number of ways.

[Aenor]

do you remember showing me how to get around guk?.

Ha... I remember getting the fbss you won the roll on... need to come help me camp mine... you still around?

[Mittens Romney]

I kind of agree with Bazia.

More EXP won't help.

Anything like a % of server pop limit on guild is ridiculous.

Wiping server promises zero confidence in new PVP box, which will really force all the dedicated psychopaths (that are really important to EQ) to play on blue server.


Whether or not it works is debatable, but I think a 4 lvl pvp range 1-60, and rallos zek item loot rules have the -potential- to make the server have some life.

It deosn't hurt new players at all because new players literally have nothing worth taking.

It hurts nihilum because it means when they PVE in their best gear, they risk at least one of their people getting singled out and killed by a small suicide attack force.

It hurts pk twinks because it means when they log on drunk / high to PK noobs in unrest that they risk losing their fungi or fbss or whatever.

It potentially helps noobs because it means they have something to PVP for.

The twinks are already here, they already stomp noobs. Newbie banded armor and like ivory bracelets aren't something they will be hunted for. They will be hunted as always for the pride of killing people.

But now I and others like me would have reasons to make PK hunters for the fun attempt at attaining some sweet item loot. It would give life to lower levels and a reason for people to play in the lowbie zones, as well as a reason to try to fight people that are stronger than them in the higher zones.

Yes I understand that nihilum has better no drop gear than you do, but they also have better droppable gear that they like to wear. And in Velious there is a lot of good no drop gear for everyone to get, but still a ton of uber droppable stuff that people will want to use, and will have to be careful about using which makes the whole experience more exciting.

Yeah, it might not in the long run fix the server, maybe it will totally back fire somehow, but it is worth trying. The only people that will really hate it are fungi twinks, and everyone else kinda hates them anyways.


For Sirken, My resume is as follows: I quit LIVE rallos zek when augments came out and disabled item loot. I began EMU because I heard about "guildwars pvp server with level 50 max" on some old forum post somewhere. I got EMU all setup and found guildwars server was long gone. I played shards of dalaya because i heard rumors of a PVP server there. I heard rumors of a PVP server from p99 staff and played blue99 in anticipation of R99. I played red 99 beta and burnt out from seeming lack of interest by the staff, and the knowledge that all the time I invest is going to be deleted anyways. Now I look back and see beta as the best red99 experience there ever was, with a lot of high hopes for a grand PVP server and a lot of hilarious guilds running around. I came to red99 launch a month or two late because after beta I quit beta I really was burnt out. By the time I got to red99 people were already moaning about this and that. Since then I have grouped a little bit, and soloed a lot of the way to level 59 as a cleric. I love the server but always feel that I could love it more. I really only want what is best for it, what might make it more fun for people.

I maintain that focusing on getting people to level 60 is not the answer. Level 1-50 is the most important part of the game, level 60 is for the most dedicated players, not casuals that are looking for fun. Low level PVP is for the casual players. Item loot inspires people to pvp at those levels and look for that darker grey chainmail BP. It also stimulates the (now totally dead) server economy in a number of ways.

There are 100 problems with item loot. I played RZ during item loot and I played on vztz when they had item loot (including droppable planer gear).

One problem is you have a huge amount of people who will play glass cannon classes such as wizards or naked SKs who will run around trying to collect every small piece of gear off anyone they can gank.

Melee classes are at a special disadvantage because they rely much heavier on gear to be able to pvp or pve.

An item loot enabled server is especially fun for griefers which ultimately makes an entire server full of people who are naked except during raids. If item loot was put onto red99 without there being a wipe first there would be even less people joining up to play than there is now. Who would want to start on a server where even your bronze breastplate is going to get stolen by someone with far superior gear/no gear on? Your idea that the fungi twinked out guy is going to have a lot of risk when they log in high/drunk to pk is just silly. It takes a lot more than just 1 item to make a twinked lowbie pk. Even if that twink loses a fungi tunic, the person who looted it will soon lose it to someone unless its always bagged, so it does them no good.

[Gustoo]

the guy who wins the fungi will just sell it and buy some weapons or held items.

Yeah the server dynamics are different. Yes cowards play naked and are easier to kill and are weaker in PVE and PVP.

It changes everything completely. Glass cannon classes are incredibly easy to kill for 2 or so normal players. Melee can level to 50+ wearing full banded. I will personally make sets of banded for all lowbie melees I find. They don't have to care if that gets taken from them, its worthless.

Real newbies have nothing to worry about. Level 60's with great gear have to be careful. I'd have to bag my rubi bp sometimes. Rough life. Item loot also teaches you who your real friends are because your bad friends will take a cheap shot on you when you are low HP.

But you're a nihilum druid who attacks people banking in rivervale so I didn't expect you to be really fond of this notion, but we are trying to save the server for the rest of the world, not only dedicated raiding guild members. I am trying to help you guys by not encouraging a full wipe.

[Mittens Romney]

the guy who wins the fungi will just sell it and buy some weapons or held items.

Yeah the server dynamics are different. Yes cowards play naked and are easier to kill and are weaker in PVE and PVP.

It changes everything completely. Glass cannon classes are incredibly easy to kill for 2 or so normal players. Melee can level to 50+ wearing full banded. I will personally make sets of banded for all lowbie melees I find. They don't have to care if that gets taken from them.

That is a nice thing to offer but it changes nothing.
People do not want to play in donated banded gear and nothing else. I know it would help for you to do this for people just signing up for red99 but after losing your 5th banded bp to the same naked jerk you will get burned out and quit.

A naked SK or Wiz kills someone, it does not matter if that person is in a group of 6 players or 2 players. They can enter the zone and get one kill without to much difficulty especially if they attack during PvE. That wiz/SK can then bag the item and die themselves and lose nothing. Happened all the time on RZ and vztz.

[Slathar]

The problem with red99 is the population. More players makes a more enjoyable server. The trick is how do we get that population we want?

1. Increase group exp mod to 300-500%.
2. Individual melee class exp bonus.
3. Raid mob variance
4. 4 level PVP range
5. Retooled resist system

And finally...


6. A complete wipe, rebranding, and relaunch of Red99.

Do it.

[Bazia]

NOT classic

[Slathar]

NOT classic

Global OOC, yellow text, 200% exp bonus, and people bolting through walls while some treacherous pervert high suns you over and over isn't classic either.

[Infectious]

Item loot is as stupid as exp loss. Why? Cause you will have twinks killing new people, looting their gear and just deleteing it to be a dick head. I have killed people, they rage tell and never seen again.

You want to make this shit exciting? Turn on pvp teams today and hardcode that shit. Make it darks vs lights. Dont allow race changes. This means that current zerg guilds will be broken up, enemies will have to guild up to go against the other side. Darkside( ogre, troll, de and iksar) and light side the rest of the races. That gives dark side iksars and the best tanks and light side druids and bards.

[Lowlife]

The problem with red99 is the population. More players makes a more enjoyable server. The trick is how do we get that population we want?

1. Increase group exp mod to 300-500%.
2. Individual melee class exp bonus.
3. Raid mob variance
4. 4 level PVP range
5. Retooled resist system

And finally...


6. A complete wipe, rebranding, and relaunch of Red99.

Do it.

[Gustoo]

Teams are a bad dream and your item loot fears are misplaced.

Nihilum would re roll.

Washouts would still wash out. Exp bonus helps no one. Washouts can't deal with 50 plus content they should be pvping at level 12.

[pasi]

I posted this before on FoH and probably have another dozen posts on this subject on these boards. I feel like a huge homo for copy-pasting myself, but I don't feel like typing the same words for the 15th time.

Emulated PvP servers are really fun until there is an obvious winner of the server, and then they die out. This happens on pretty much every new PvP game and EQ in particular is bad as it is both an old game and a game with harsh death penalties. Once there is a clear winner, the losing guild quits because losing sucks, the battle just becomes more uphill, and the best way to 'fight back' is to let the victors rule over a ghost town.

Nihilum clearly won the server. I'm sure people can come up with a million excuses as to why this is the case, but it doesn't change the fact that it would require more effort to topple them than anyone is willing to give.

[runlvlzero]

Casuals are going to wash out hard when they get to lvl 60 in 16 hours and begin trying to pharmacy items that take that long.

Agatha is right. Being lvl 60 in eq is far from casual.

Yep. Even 60 is hard because then you have to start closing the gear gap and getting other high end items to be competitive. I'm not bitching. But it is a fact of life. Even Jboots is a long camp for people with short attention spans. I know I did it for 4 days STRAIGHT, without a break and it broke me. I will buy jboots on all my toons from here on out. its just something to consider.

[Colgate]

Staff interfered, everyone quit

The End

fixed that for you

[runlvlzero]

I will be flat out honest, I have played on this server since launch and been involved with almost every guild/crew at one point or another.

Right now red feels as dead as it ever has since Kunark was launched, it confuses me because the /who all count will say 70 but the /ooc is dead empty and I can port around all day on my druid and find barely anyone.

It really has a feeling of emptiness lately, I haven't felt it this bad since it was the days of 14 pop during classic when Nihilum was just farming planes on a schedule and no one else was playing other then myself, chewie, salem, and beck.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think this server has ran it's course until at least Velious launch. EXP is p good now, but yet it just feels dead.

If there is still people consistently logging on for 12 hours a day or more 2 months from now to farm when it's this empty I would be surprised.

Before Kunark there was a lot more pvp indeed even though the population was much lower its weird as hell.

And it was more legit pvp. Less high end geared toons and more people just pvpin on walmart funded chars. I think now that Kunark has been on farm its really hurt the mid level pop a lot. You occasionally run into a complete noob you don't want to kill. Or someone who is a demigod unless you have multiple toons at your disposal to kill OOR heals + 2 or 3 other twinks. Its pretty crazy how the demographics are working.

[runlvlzero]

And starting a new post here so my response can be seperate... in regards to item loot.

Yes people will loot bronze BP's, just to be jerks. But its really not a big deal to loose that bronze BP (except maybe on a large race). With boxing enabled a naked healer can heal a bronze class and they can level with some nice held items and bag their really nice gear like FBSS. It raised the bar. It will probably decrease population overall for a long long time. Especially if people have to rely on uber toons to pl their melees. I wouldn't be able to play a melee effectively at all with a population under 400 on an item loot server. Once you get into the 400+ range things become more sane as they will be naked clerics and druids and shams to group with who don't want to "just solo and gank". It's a lil delusional to think that people will be honorable. There's 20 people tops here that wouldn't loot peoples bronze. The rest would.

But as the pop stands right now it will be shamans, necros, wizards, mages, enchanters solo ganking melee's and everyone else. While completely naked. (Necros will get a nice boost with everyone naked)

I love item loot. It makes the game much more compelling to me. But we need boxing if we implement it with a pop under 400. We could probably live without it if we could find a better solution.

One crazy idea would be to do item loot, but make everything No Drop. Only make extremely nice, but not game changing items (fungi, FBSS, CoF, tranix crown, Resist Gear) dropable. General PvE gear like Quest armor aught to be No Drop still, or common items. Rare items droppable, and common/quest gear No Drop.

Or generally BIS PvP + resist dropappable with decent mid range pve gear no drop. And maybe one tier of kunark gear like seb scale or w/e is passable for 50+. People will love to fight others for those blue diamond bits. I would remove bagging items with it customized. Also it would probably require a few iterations of tweaks to get just right.

[Bogart]

I went and looked up some old threads. I forgot how bad amelinda was. Thin skinned emotional GMs happy to threaten with bans are about the last thing you want on a PvP server. Her past behavior is still hurting this server.

[s1ckness]

I'm a huge nba fanatic and follow like every beat writer ever on twitter. Must know who you are immediately.

[HeisChuck]

bring back paypalinda

just for starters

[Smedy]

I went and looked up some old threads. I forgot how bad amelinda was. Thin skinned emotional GMs happy to threaten with bans are about the last thing you want on a PvP server. Her past behavior is still hurting this server.

a pair of tits, no matter how soggy can always get you ahead in that staff queue. Surprisingly my man pecks has done nothing for me and i though brogean was a bro

[Kevynne]

The problem with red99 is the population. More players makes a more enjoyable server. The trick is how do we get that population we want?

1. Increase group exp mod to 300-500%.
2. Individual melee class exp bonus.
3. Raid mob variance
4. 4 level PVP range
5. Retooled resist system

And finally...


6. A complete wipe, rebranding, and relaunch of Red99.

Do it.

[GrobbGangsta]

I posted this before on FoH and probably have another dozen posts on this subject on these boards. I feel like a huge homo for copy-pasting myself, but I don't feel like typing the same words for the 15th time.

Emulated PvP servers are really fun until there is an obvious winner of the server, and then they die out. This happens on pretty much every new PvP game and EQ in particular is bad as it is both an old game and a game with harsh death penalties. Once there is a clear winner, the losing guild quits because losing sucks, the battle just becomes more uphill, and the best way to 'fight back' is to let the victors rule over a ghost town.

Nihilum clearly won the server. I'm sure people can come up with a million excuses as to why this is the case, but it doesn't change the fact that it would require more effort to topple them than anyone is willing to give.

I don't understand why it is so hard for everyone else to understand this simple, correct analysis of the problem.

At the end of the day, do you care more about Tune/Nizzar/etc. gear and the "promises" made to them or having an actually viable EQEMU pvp? If its the latter, you wipe, end of story

[diplo]

"So remove the ability to be anon/role completely."

This.

I support this, should be an ez fix and invite more pvp.

[Agatha]

the remove anon thing sounds so awesome. can't wait.

[timhutton]

After reading this entire thread and hearing people focus on increasing server population as much as possible as a fix for the server's woes I'm just not entirely sure the server is or ever will be fixable.

There are no new people looking to play Red99. Nobody is Googling "classic EverQuest PvP", finding Red99, coming to these forums and going "that looks like fun!". To think otherwise is pretty delusional.. it's 2013.

I don't mean this as a blanket statement, I mean it more as a generalization. I'm sure every now and then someone who has ZERO knowledge of p99's existance finds out about it and decides to roll red, but it's such a rarity it's not really worth discussing.

So how can we increase the population of red? The only viable alternative is to recruit from blue. You cannot inject entirely new blood into red without pulling it from the blue servers. It's not out there, it doesn't exist. There isn't a group of 500 players sitting around waiting on certain changes to happen on red before they play.

So let's talk about recruiting from blue, as some of you already have. As Motec pointed out, I believe he and other blue players that would possibly be willing to give red a shot are your current target. The things those players want to see fixed are pretty simple/obvious. They don't want to solo to 60 without ever seeing anyone only to get 60 and spend the majority of their time PVE'ing. They can just do that on blue and have a better time doing it because soloing is not 100% neccessary.

Without theorycrafting or elaborting too much on it, the only way those players are coming over is if they have people to level and group with. It's not as simple as a population issue. For instance, if this server had 150 people on it WITHOUT Kunark expansions there would be a lot more PvP and grouping. Kunark allows people to spread out a lot more.

If red99 were to implement "the perfect solution for players who play on blue but have been wanting to try red" there is still not going to be enough people on the server to make things feel like they do on blue.

There's always a chance I'm completely off base, but I think there are not enough people interested in playing Classic EverQuest PvP on either red/blue or anywhere else to create p99 red server that is as successful as a live PvP server was or even as successful as p99 blue.

That doesn't mean the server can't do what's best for itself and make the changes neccesary to keep the largest portion of the players content and happy, but I think that if what the GMs/devs want to do is to make it a "success" numbers-wise like blue is that they're going to have a hard time and it's never going to happen.

[Agatha]

if people just stopped being a bunch of ducks and played, and also played better, this server would be thriving.

[timhutton]

If there weren't any problems all of our issues would be fixed.

[Sirken]

just to clarify,

Sat Aug 31 9pmEST - Project1999:PVP Discussion with Rogean, Nilbog, Zade and Sirken

Fri Aug 30, 9pmEST - Discussion on Red99 vs VZTZ

they are two separate events

<3

[Rexxin]

The problem with red99 is the population. More players makes a more enjoyable server. The trick is how do we get that population we want?

1. Increase group exp mod to 300-500%.
2. Individual melee class exp bonus.
3. Raid mob variance
4. 4 level PVP range
5. Retooled resist system

And finally...


6. A complete wipe, rebranding, and relaunch of Red99.

Do it.

Would Play on this server...... Alot

[big league chew]

glabal ooc drives players away
both new & returning

[Nirgon]

Fri Aug 23 9pmEST - Project1999:PVP Discussion with Rogean, Nilbog, Zade and Sirken


Maybe if Bond of Death icon change is addressed, Lady Lethdar will bestow us with her presence

[Stinkum]

if people just stopped being a bunch of ducks and played, and also played better, this server would be thriving.

This post is a lot funnier if you watch Agatha's performance in the BotB.

[Labanen]

There will be no wipe.

"This isnt the end, this isnt even the beginning of the end. It maybe however be the end of the beginning" :-)

We re only halfway through the timeline that is planned, dont give up yet...

[Giovanni]

Going to walk you through my experiences on Red99 versus VZTZ versus Sullon on live:

Experience on Red99
There was a lot of excitement and theory crafting for the launch of red99. We managed to win the beta FFA pvp event with a small crew using even levels and even gear. Everyone was pumped.

The server launched and I was an ogre shaman near Grobb grouping with 3 large race SK's. The low level pvp against other crews was very fun. However, we began to notice exactly how slow the experience was flowing. As of today, over half the people in the video below never made it 50 let alone 60.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLC_T33duGw

As we reached the 20's-30's, we switched to bard kiting instead of traditional grouping because the experience rate was so bad. Instead of running holy trinity experience groups, all our melee were told to sit on their ass and afk while bards killed everything.

This is still the preferred method of exp today 18-60 with a low hp aggro bard kite.

Not surprisingly melees either:
1) quit playing
2) rerolled casters
3) decided to box and risk everything on a gm ban

Guildmates refused to group with melees as they were useless in groups, and melees could not pvp the random players they encountered as they needed them for groups.

In terms of PVP, there is a plethora of conflag wands and trak teeth on the server. Resists are just weird so enjoy getting blinded, bard snared, and nuked for full with an unlimited range pillar.

Nihilum is good at what they do, and we simply don't have the hours to invest pve wise to compete. One memory which really stands out to me is when we were finally contesting and winning trakanon. The server reset at like 11am on a Wednesday and Nihilium killed every single raid mob by 3pm or so on the same day before I got home from work.

Like most of the players in my guild, I logged off when I heard the news. It was one thing having them plug 2-4 fully geared and buffed toon into zonelines for pvp fights (with trak tooths and soulfires). It was another thing dealing with their recruitment signing bonuses and 24 hour on-call memberbase.

The lesson learned here is that if you want fun pvp, stop leveling at 51. Then, enjoy fights against flowers. I have been a member of the opposition fighting against Nizzar since day 1 on the server. The action at level 60 simply isn't fun, and it isn't worth the time investment.


Experience on VZTZ
I played essentially every eq emu pvp box starting with guildwars. On VZTZ, I was in TDT, No Homo's, Heresy. I even tried pvping on Shards of Dalaya for what it was worth.

What worked well for VZTZ was the focus on pvp and fun. The PVE was an afterthought. Some of the best guild vs guild pvp on VZTZ was in zones where there were no mobs up to contest. In comparison, RED99 feels like we are playing a PVE Skinner box and not a pvp box.

If one guild grew too into too large of a zerg on VZTZ, other guilds would break off or form up to contest. Contesting was possible since we could box, insta clicks were not used as widely in pvp, and resists made more sense. Guilds wanted to be known as having a small elite crew on VZTZ. On red99, it's zerg2win.

Below is a video going into fear with 5 characters to contest a small raid force. We would be very hesitant to try this on red99 with the possibility for exp death due to low hp aggro from mobs, the possibility of getting banned for training, and the difficulty of cring without the ability to box. I can guarantee that if we tried the same on red99, we would have gotten trak toothed and possibly suspended.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLlsXzaKEJg


Experience on Sullon:
I primarily played on the Neutral team with Tides of Wrath. The Netural team essentially only had one guild capable of fielding a raid force. The evil team always had multiple raid forces such as Hate, Vindictive, etc. Nizzar choose ez street on evil team of course.

Sullon was great from the new player perspective because higher level players were encouraged by the rule set to protect and help their potential low level recruits. On the other hand, the no level limits meant that new players were frequently corpse camped by high level opposition.

There was more of a shared purpose with your team members on Sullon. Even though I did not like many of the other Neutral team members, I took some comfort in the fact that they were pissing off the opposing teams far more than my own. I loved looking at the zone control maps or message board updates on the daily pvp fights.

On Sullon, players were restricted on one character per account. This played a large part in restricted the xteam spies. I can see how RED99 players with too much time on their hands would level up multiple characters on each team if the team restrictions were implemented. Overall though, I think hardcoded teams would help the server.

The exp rate was slow on Sullon. I boxed a cleric and warrior to 60. I also had a bard.

On live, bard kites were never used in the manner they are on red99. A bard named Worry pioneered a lot of the bard techniques and eventually bought a Mustang from all the plat he made. How bards leveled on live:

Charm a pet and send it into a group of mobs. Break charm when pet is low and then chant it down.
Charm burn a mob to start two uncharmable mobs fighting each other due to the way faction assist worked.


PBAOE kiting did not see much until Katta or Halls of Honor, and I never saw low hp bard kites used. Does anyone else remember doing this on live? I sure don't.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYEhbOt149w&feature=c4-overview&list=UUqYgHY9ipKUWKv5x7u4JSlQ


Summary:

Fix resists/basic pvp mechanics (nice progress with the pillar/tsfaff changes)
Focus more on pvp and not pve
Allow boxing so melees can level up and smaller guilds can contest. We aren't using holy trinity groups anyway. Making pve hard so we all have to bard kites is retarded.
Encourage players to form groups through group exp bonuses and teams. The server is currently structured to encourage people to exclude pals (like those who chose hybrids) from groups.

[AmukTZ]

I haven't played Red99. I have only played VZTZ.

I played Rahza or Rahzagul on VZTZ. I played with TZT in the earlier days and then was with Heresy after the second wipe.

[Alecta]

Cant really comment on #1, but points #2 & #3 were pretty spot on.

(And go go team neut!)

[Vile]

are these planned events just going to be circle jerks or what kind of changes could we expect?

actual updates to red99?
another PvP server?

prassss

r99 boring as fuck imo right now

[Agatha]

not even i can put together exp group, times are rough all over. lol

[Potus]

I really don't understand why hybrid exp penalty is on this server because Verant/Sony even admitted later on it was a balance mistake from the beta (where people foolishly thought Paladins and Rangers were better than a Warrior).

[heartbrand]

because it's classic. if trakanon dropped cloth caps for 3 months, he would drop cloth caps here as well for 3 months because it's "classic." Dumb as fuck imo, but that's the vision/goal of the server.

also I don't mind making exp boosts etc., but if you really STILL can't level at the current exp rate then you're not looking for EverQuest anymore, you're looking for CS with elves.

[Kevynne]

Would Play on this server...... Alot

[Zalaerian]

Smedy or Knuckle as voice of the people from VZTZ.

Also, best vid from VZTZ (Fair Fighters/Pecks vs Dream Team)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32T_zftum3U

[Fame]

Thank you for doing this.

[runlvlzero]

HB 100% right XP rate is super casual (and not a bad thing). But this isn't a casual game. To make it one (going all the way) you break it. Even once your are completely maxed and its CS with elves theres still things to do that are hardcore by todays standards.

Like farming soulfires. Planar or deep dungeon keyed CRs.

[Stasis01]

If people think the exp rate is casual even with the so called 200%, lol.

[Rexxin]

If people think the exp rate is casual even with the so called 200%, lol.

Flat out #1 reason I dont play here is the XP sucks.

[Agatha]

i fucking hate this thread and anyone offering advise on how to fix this server should be shot.


DUCKS

[Potus]

because it's classic. if trakanon dropped cloth caps for 3 months, he would drop cloth caps here as well for 3 months because it's "classic." Dumb as fuck imo, but that's the vision/goal of the server.

also I don't mind making exp boosts etc., but if you really STILL can't level at the current exp rate then you're not looking for EverQuest anymore, you're looking for CS with elves.

Then server should strive to recreate the same bugs. After all it's classic! I want my npc merchants to stand on top of the huts in East Commonlands.

And no the exp rate isn't casual, and the exp rate already being boosted destroys the IT IS CLASSIC argument. So again I ask why hybrids are penalized when Verant even admitted that was a dumb fucking idea to begin with.

[heartbrand]

There's only so much you can increase exp before you basically kill what EverQuest is and all low level pvp. I'm certain a supporter of the exp bonus, but any more risks ruining the integrity of the game. If everyone's level 60 easily no one is going to log on because there's nothing to do. That is part of the problem with the server by the way, there's just no reason to be logged on the majority of the time once you're 60, and you can say well log on for "pvp" but that usually involves running around searching for the four anon people in your level range who then gate or zone plug. Velious introduces a shit load of solo/group/raid content which means more people online and therefore more pvp.

[SamwiseRed]

if everyone on the server had a job, it would be an even playing field :)

[heartbrand]

Then server should strive to recreate the same bugs. After all it's classic! I want my npc merchants to stand on top of the huts in East Commonlands.

And no the exp rate isn't casual, and the exp rate already being boosted destroys the IT IS CLASSIC argument. So again I ask why hybrids are penalized when Verant even admitted that was a dumb fucking idea to begin with.

I agree 100% just stating server policy

[Giovanni]

We could just time lock max char levels. Keep server max lvl 20 for 3 months, max lvl 30 for 3 months etc.

This would eliminate the issue Lovely outleveling everyone to 1 shot with Ice Comet before quitting when people start getting even levels.

[SamwiseRed]

We could just time lock max char levels. Keep server max lvl 20 for 3 months, max lvl 30 for 3 months etc.

This would eliminate the issue Lovely outleveling everyone to 1 shot with Ice Comet before quitting when people start getting even levels.

in theory sounds cool but people would max level in one day and never be seen again til level cap raised.

kinda like the 100+ former nillys. get max level, get loot, quit. not sure whats more discouraging, everyone going to nilly for loots or everyone in nilly quitting after loots obtained.

[Yukahwa]

Yeah lovely definitely won that game.

If a new server ever comes out, Max level time lock is 100% neccesary for maximum enjoyment. It simulates classic experience as much as possible, since in 1999 people just didn't know how to pwn the game like we do now.

Maxxing level 20 for a while would mean normal players aren't totally dusted and non competitive within the first week. If the guys hit 20 and /q they are going to be rusty and weaker than some guy who has been bombing around having fun the whole time.

[runlvlzero]

in theory sounds cool but people would max level in one day and never be seen again til level cap raised.

kinda like the 100+ former nillys. get max level, get loot, quit. not sure whats more discouraging, everyone going to nilly for loots or everyone in nilly quitting after loots obtained.

You are already max level in 1 day and not seen for months on end. This would not impeed your play style at all.

[Potus]

if everyone on the server had a job, it would be an even playing field :)

I knew it was Obama's fault.

I agree 100% just stating server policy

Oh ok gotcha. I just want to see more Paladins and Rangers on this server damnit.

[SamwiseRed]

You are already max level in 1 day and not seen for months on end. This would not impeed your play style at all.

ive never been max level, not sure what you talkin about lol

[runlvlzero]

ive never been max level, not sure what you talkin about lol

lol max level for your u ;p

[Syft]

A wipe will chase away more people that it will bring it

nah will enrich the pop without a hacker guild dominating the pop, but nihi and nihi wanna be's like yourself cant handle that.

[Smedy]

I wipe could save the server, a no wipe no change will however most definitly keep the server dead, i don't think anyone will bother with velious knowing its a 100 man zerg just doing everything and there's litteraly no reason to form a opposition as the population isn't large enough

The only fun you'll have in velious is the early days of lodizal pvp, thats about 1 hour per day, that's way more action then the server sees today though, but knowing nizzar he will field a 40 man zerg to get lodizal, and then no one will bother to pvp for it

EQ broken at its core, all you have to do is recruit everyone who doesn't have a job

[Darksinga]

Release a second server, Red 99 (2) that is a classic world accelerated team world pvp server. This server will basically be vztz xp with red99 code. This will be a clean slate and people will have the "wipe" that is so badly sought after. After a few months, the accelerated server will easily be able to finish classic and catch up in kunark. As such, you can combine both servers together, so the bluebies will be happy they get to keep their pixels and the red fellas will be happy to have a more lax way to catch up while having a blast with team pvp. Pop should sky rocket due to hype and new players will look at the new server as an amazing way to catch up. On the old server there will still be die hard pve-ers but the majority of the population should be on red 99 (2) til the merger. If this happens I will play in a heart beat and so will a lot of others.

[Darksinga]

Summary:

Fix resists/basic pvp mechanics (nice progress with the pillar/tsfaff changes)
Focus more on pvp and not pve
Allow boxing so melees can level up and smaller guilds can contest. We aren't using holy trinity groups anyway. Making pve hard so we all have to bard kites is retarded.
Encourage players to form groups through group exp bonuses and teams. The server is currently structured to encourage people to exclude pals (like those who chose hybrids) from groups.


This + Red 99 (2) is a win. PS should we rename our new server Red 99 Next? xD

[Darksinga]

There's only so much you can increase exp before you basically kill what EverQuest is and all low level pvp. I'm certain a supporter of the exp bonus, but any more risks ruining the integrity of the game. If everyone's level 60 easily no one is going to log on because there's nothing to do. That is part of the problem with the server by the way, there's just no reason to be logged on the majority of the time once you're 60, and you can say well log on for "pvp" but that usually involves running around searching for the four anon people in your level range who then gate or zone plug. Velious introduces a shit load of solo/group/raid content which means more people online and therefore more pvp.

On VZTZ this wasn't the case. Screw low level pvp it's stupid. Just a bunch of clerics blinding you and Mage pets chain rooting. On VZTZ max lvl pvp was the sole reason to play. Ps Sirken if you need a voice who has very little Red 99 experience and a lot of VZTZ experience you can PM me.

[Agatha]

I hate this thread so much.

[Stasis01]

I'm blown away people dedicate themselves to win on a low pop EMU nostalgia project this hardcore, crazy shit yo. Fucking Evercrack going to take these guys to their graves. Took their early 2000's now the next century.

[Rokannis]

FFA PvP was a bad idea from the get go. It sounds "cool" to the hardcore folk but its just not cool, ever.

A team based PVP server fields competition and rivalries. VZTZ style isn't a BAD idea, but its still not great. The fact that people can change alliances so easy sounds good, but will only yield bad results and it will be a similar ending to Red99 FFA. Those who rise to the top first will have people funnel into them.

On SZ, with diety PVP, you had three teams. When a guild rose to the top on one faction, the other two are there to stop them. Trains are allowed, which helps smaller guilds and players play an impact on stopping big guilds progressions. This forces big guilds to come up with new strats whether it be ogre walling, setting up certain classes to stop trains, etc. With team based pvp there is a sense of "this is my team for better or for worse" because of the rivalries you build. You were locked into the team you chose after your first character, you couldnt have an evil and neutral on the same account.

When you create FFA pvp you alienate so many people and you wonder why its not a raging success. You need casuals mixed into your hardcore in order to create a healthy server. You can't have no sense of safety and expect the server to thrive. Teams provide this. All you do is create a server of raging faggets when its FFA...which obviously is what the results yielded.

If you want a PVP EQ server to succeed, I guarantee you teams needs to happen. Now is a VZTZ style the solution? I don't know, but I still think it has too many issues to re-create the problem FFA already had. A 3 way deity pvp makes more sense to me. There are countless old school zekkers waiting to come back. I know I would. No game has fufilled the same greatness as old school EQ zek pvp, specifically, sullon zek. There are a lot of old Zek folk trying to fill that void with other games and none have succeeded.

Whatever you guys do, listening to your "hardcore" base isn't going to solve anything.

I suggest the EMU devs watch the following about how the rule sets of games define the community out come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cRlYM9F50EQ

[SamwiseRed]

FFA PvP was a bad idea from the get go. It sounds "cool" to the hardcore folk but its just not cool, ever.

A team based PVP server fields competition and rivalries. VZTZ style isn't a BAD idea, but its still not great. The fact that people can change alliances so easy sounds good, but will only yield bad results and it will be a similar ending to Red99 FFA. Those who rise to the top first will have people funnel into them.

On SZ, with diety PVP, you had three teams. When a guild rose to the top on one faction, the other two are there to stop them. Trains are allowed, which helps smaller guilds and players play an impact on stopping big guilds progressions. This forces big guilds to come up with new strats whether it be ogre walling, setting up certain classes to stop trains, etc. With team based pvp there is a sense of "this is my team for better or for worse" because of the rivalries you build. You were locked into the team you chose after your first character, you couldnt have an evil and neutral on the same account.

When you create FFA pvp you alienate so many people and you wonder why its not a raging success. You need casuals mixed into your hardcore in order to create a healthy server. You can't have no sense of safety and expect the server to thrive. Teams provide this. All you do is create a server of raging faggets when its FFA...which obviously is what the results yielded.

If you want a PVP EQ server to succeed, I guarantee you teams needs to happen. Now is a VZTZ style the solution? I don't know, but I still think it has too many issues to re-create the problem FFA already had. A 3 way deity pvp makes more sense to me. There are countless old school zekkers waiting to come back. I know I would. No game has fufilled the same greatness as old school EQ zek pvp, specifically, sullon zek. There are a lot of old Zek folk trying to fill that void with other games and none have succeeded.

Whatever you guys do, listening to your "hardcore" base isn't going to solve anything.

I suggest the EMU devs watch the following about how the rule sets of games define the community out come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=cRlYM9F50EQ

this guy gets it.

[Rokannis]

Are you the famous "Sam" who 10 boxed on Sullon?

[SamwiseRed]

negative

[Rokannis]

I am dissapoint

[SamwiseRed]

silly newt

[Sirken]

starting the 26th or 27th ill send a few PMs to people that have posted in this thread to see if they are interested in joining me for the discussion.

keep in mind that this is NOT a RNF type discussion. if you can not keep it clean and constructive i will have no choice but to remove you.

everybody on R99 wants a better server, so lets put the petty shit aside and see what the people want.

(just to be clear, the Red99 vs VZTZ discussion is Aug 30th - and the Round Table Discussion with Rogean, Nilbog, Zade, and myself is August 23rd. both will be available live on my stream, link is in my sig)

[Rokannis]

Sirken, I'm sure everyone appreciates all that you guys have done to step up and provide some old school fun, but like I said in my previous post, I suggest you guys do some more research on why games create the communities they do and come to realization that its not the "people" its the rule sets that make people act that way. When you have rule sets that reward griefing and no group play you have a boiling pot for tools where no one wants to play therefore destroying any community capability.

There are a lot of people waiting in the wings for a good team based pvp server. But be careful, realize the mistakes that FFA pvp creates and why it creates it.

[Sirken]

Sirken, I'm sure everyone appreciates all that you guys have done to step up and provide some old school fun, but like I said in my previous post, I suggest you guys do some more research on why games create the communities they do and come to realization that its not the "people" its the rule sets that make people act that way. When you have rule sets that reward griefing and no group play you have a boiling pot for tools where no one wants to play therefore destroying any community capability.

There are a lot of people waiting in the wings for a good team based pvp server. But be careful, realize the mistakes that FFA pvp creates and why it creates it.

i strongly suggest you come check it out then, you may be pleasantly surprised :)

[Alecta]

Sirk's good at riling the masses!

[Rokannis]

i strongly suggest you come check it out then, you may be pleasantly surprised :)

My friends (old SZ'ers) and I are sitting here on blue waiting to see what you do next. I promise you others are waiting in the wings as well. Your move sir.

[Rokannis]

Sirk's good at riling the masses!
Alecta Fekk?

gtffo ;)

[Sirken]

My friends (old SZ'ers) and I are sitting here on blue waiting to see what you do next. I promise you others are waiting in the wings as well. Your move sir.

i have high hopes. having Rogean and Nilbog both making time to be there should show that they are serious and that this is important to them as well.

our next move comes Friday August 23rd at 9pmEST -

(in case anyone can not make it, after we finish i will upload the highlights to my stream page at: www.twitch.tv/sirkenp99 ) listening is great so you know whats going on, but being there to ask questions or offer advice is always better.

[Rokannis]

i have high hopes. having Rogean and Nilbog both making time to be there should show that they are serious and that this is important to them as well.

our next move comes Friday August 23rd at 9pmEST -

(in case anyone can not make it, after we finish i will upload the highlights to my stream page at: www.twitch.tv/sirkenp99 ) listening is great so you know whats going on, but being there to ask questions or offer advice is always better.

Good to hear. Just remember, its ok if your hardcore folk get pissed off. They have
1)The OG red99
2) Hardcore folk don't make lasting communities (as seen in Red)
3) Hardcore folk play no matter what, they just whine more if they aren't happy

So if you make a server that has some safety nets (teams for example) so you don't get shit stomped from the get go, more people stick around. I know when I first played on Sullon Zek there was a high level griefer running around Rivervale. Word got out and a neutral Paladin came charging in to defend us. Creating communities and rivalries is what increases longevity. It also adds "things to do" if you don't like to raid or don't have time to raid. Can't raid? You can slay the opposing faction, or defend your own. This creates long lasting memories of EQ adventures, because every time it is different. Or maybe you only have enough time to be at the raid for a few hours, so you vote to stand guard from trains with a few other folk. You know you don't have enough time to kill a few bosses, but you can be the PVP defense your team needs to stop enemy griefers.

Fighting for zones
Fighting for mobs
but having a team to do it with

If you look at even base psychology, people always look to associate themselves with groups. When put into groups, they develop a sense of loyalty to the group, right or wrong. FFA is no fun, especially in EQ which is a community game and doesn't favor solo play very well.

I'll point you in the direction of this video if you have time. This was on Stormreaver where most of the old SZ folk rolled when WoW launched, we were primarily a guild made up of SZers. Faction battles / guild battles is what drives fun MMO PVP. Though some servers grew unbalanced in WoW PvP, early Vanilla was the most fun I ever had besides SZ pvp. Our guild wasn't the "best" raiding guild, but we faired ok, however we griefed the opposite faction on a day to day basis, chose to prevent the Horde from getting into Molten Core over us raiding, and would go camp them in the Arena and punish cross teamers. We even griefed our own guild mate who rerolled to Horde (as seen in the second half of the vid)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fm5wevaLj0&feature=c4-overview&list=UUHx9j42YRbH8gGjL99hHPcg

Thats how memories are made.

[Bogart]

Teams don't balance themselves, just like guilds don't balance themselves. Did you read the posts about WoW and battlegrounds? How one side continually became overwhelming dominate so the had to put in cross server BGs to have balanced teams.

If Red99 didn't have an incredibly small community the imbalance with guilds would not be as big of an issue.

[Rokannis]

Teams don't balance themselves, just like guilds don't balance themselves. Did you read the posts about WoW and battlegrounds? How one side continually became overwhelming dominate so the had to put in cross server BGs to have balanced teams.

If Red99 didn't have an incredibly small community the imbalance with guilds would not be as big of an issue.

When you don't allow trains or ways to grief top tier guilds you can't keep them in check. This allows small guilds to have an ability to battle their enemies, a sense of purpose, thrive and enjoy the content without having no life and being 24/7 raiders.

WoW became un balanced because of a two faction system. When there are three factions, you have two to keep the larger one in check. I played a while on SZ and near its end, yes, evil did become very popular and <Hate> was the premiere guild for PvE. As good as they were, both factions still contested them and sometimes had to work together to knock them down a few notches. <Hate> became the most powerful near the end because a lot of people quit, the game was dieing and it wasn't so much the servers fault as it was the last breaths of a dieing game with a million expansions. The fact that the game was dieing only helped them increase their lead that much more.

Red99 population is bad because the rule sets don't work and they don't encite community, they shun it. You can't expect people to create great communities on their own, they have to be pushed in the right direction. This is game psychology. You have to create certain rules and techniques to promote working together. This hasn't been done yet.

Want to help balance teams? Create caps on sides to help new players filter into a different team, once you pick a team you are locked into it unless you delete, and caps on guilds.

[Bogart]

I personally don't want to be teamed with everyone who clicked Dark Elf. I don't see it effectively solving the core issue with the gameplay that leads to a huge imbalance. Which I think is the ruleset and I'm all for trains, item loot, whatever that gives the capability of a smaller force to deal actual damage in game.

[Nirgon]

down @ #1,857

[heals4reals]

down @ #1,857

Sirken went from 8 hour voice chat best friend to dodging 180ing and griefing for no reason. Go figure.

[Rokannis]

I personally don't want to be teamed with everyone who clicked Dark Elf. I don't see it effectively solving the core issue with the gameplay that leads to a huge imbalance. Which I think is the ruleset and I'm all for trains, item loot, whatever that gives the capability of a smaller force to deal actual damage in game.

There's the problem. Because the "minority" has an issue with being teamed with only the best of the best, new players, or inexperienced players have no gateway to succeed or improve. Shunning them from the get go solves nothing. Placing them on your side to improve creates a support system to help players thrive. I'm not sure what your issue is with being teamed with others who clicked "dark elf"? What is wrong with that?

Sides forces communities, FFA pvp or guild pvp lets the players have more choice in shunning others, which causes everyone else to fall short and quit because they can't succeed. Players will be dicks if you have rules that allow them to be dicks. That is the way of gaming. However, if you have only some rules that let players be dicks, but the capability for others to put them in their place, you can find balance.

[Elderan]

There's the problem. Because the "minority" has an issue with being teamed with only the best of the best, new players, or inexperienced players have no gateway to succeed or improve. Shunning them from the get go solves nothing. Placing them on your side to improve creates a support system to help players thrive. I'm not sure what your issue is with being teamed with others who clicked "dark elf"? What is wrong with that?

Sides forces communities, FFA pvp or guild pvp lets the players have more choice in shunning others, which causes everyone else to fall short and quit because they can't succeed. Players will be dicks if you have rules that allow them to be dicks. That is the way of gaming. However, if you have only some rules that let players be dicks, but the capability for others to put them in their place, you can find balance.

The only way I can see teams work on an existing sever like this is to allow people to pick their team no matter their race/class etc.

Once it went live people would be forced to join one of 3 teams (team 1, 2, 3, whatever name is assigned to them) by doing /jointeam teamname. You can only do this once and all new characters created would be forced to pick a team at creation.

This is really the only options for teams on an existing server.

[Nirgon]

You mean pick a team like join a guild

[Dullah]

You mean pick a team like join a guild

^

and you don't need to "grief" to compete. When the opposition was zerging with almost 40 players at 4am, less than 2 groups of nihilum delayed them for hours in sebilis.

[Nirgon]

Imagine the "I want to change teams" petitions HEEEH

[Colgate]

^

and you don't need to "grief" to compete. When the opposition was zerging with almost 40 players at 4am, less than 2 groups of nihilum delayed them for hours in sebilis.

only time i remember being delayed hours in sebilis was when you guys had 30 people outside, and when we finally moved down toward the jail you guys trained us, got smacked down hard, and then trained us twice more with the 2-3 people you had left in the zone, and then all logged off in shame except for malevz obviously who tried to CR for hours upon hours to no avail

"less than 2 groups"

[Darksinga]

This is why the potentially new server should have teams and when it merges together with the original red 99, we, as a playerbase can vote off of experience whether or not we should keep team pvp or go back to FFA once the masses catch up. Like I said previously, the great thing about cloning a server is it caters to both sides.

Team PvP will bring much more people to attempt a new server. That news alone will make people realize hey something new is happening. If you created a new server and said FFA same lvl range, slightly boosted xp, no one would care for a fresh start. Do something new and different that will make us feel the pains and joys of a nostalgic team server. If it doesn't work as expected, in a few months down the road upon a merger, change to a FFA ruleset

[Bogart]

There's the problem. Because the "minority" has an issue with being teamed with only the best of the best, new players, or inexperienced players have no gateway to succeed or improve. Shunning them from the get go solves nothing. Placing them on your side to improve creates a support system to help players thrive. I'm not sure what your issue is with being teamed with others who clicked "dark elf"? What is wrong with that?

Sides forces communities, FFA pvp or guild pvp lets the players have more choice in shunning others, which causes everyone else to fall short and quit because they can't succeed. Players will be dicks if you have rules that allow them to be dicks. That is the way of gaming. However, if you have only some rules that let players be dicks, but the capability for others to put them in their place, you can find balance.

I meet new people everyday I play. I do pub groups. I trade. I'm new to EQ and I'm still learning this game. I've bumped into way more friendly people than ganks or twink pks on red99. Forced teams don't create community, they simple prevent people from attacking their own team. It'll end up with people stealing spawns and you having no recourse cause they're on "your side". It'll add all the downsides of blue, which end up needing GM supervision.

[Rokannis]

You mean pick a team like join a guild

Guilds have requirements, applications, leaders, officers, rules, all that jazz. This allows exclusion and to handpick people you want.

Teams puts you on the same side as others from the get go. A sense of team, community, and a "go team [insert side]" to cheer for.

So no, not like join a guild.

[Rokannis]

I meet new people everyday I play. I do pub groups. I trade. I'm new to EQ and I'm still learning this game. I've bumped into way more friendly people than ganks or twink pks on red99. Forced teams don't create community, they simple prevent people from attacking their own team. It'll end up with people stealing spawns and you having no recourse cause they're on "your side". It'll add all the downsides of blue, which end up needing GM supervision.

With the competitive nature of two other enemies vs your team, it is in the players best interest to not ruin his reputation with his side and to create allys in order to exp, raid, and get pvp help later down the line.

So no, you are wrong, and I've been there, I have seen how this works, as have countless others.

In a team environment if a player is being a dick,, he will ruin his rep with his team. When he dies to the opposing faction, and gets camped, no one will come to his aid. When he wants to exp, no one will help him. However, the players does have the option to change his attitude and try to mend this while still having somewhat of a safety net of not being "booted" off his team. At the end of the day, he's still a part of a collective and can participate as such.

In FFA pvp guild envrionment, if a players ruins his rep, he gets booted out and camped off the server. There is no safety net to change his attitude and your population declines. There also is no PVP safety net for new comers who can't get access to a guild to have protectors while leveling. Also, why care for anyone who is NOT in your guild? They aren't one of you, so fuck them. That is what that ruleset does. Not saying thats how EVERYONE thinks, but by alienating others, the majority chooses to not care about them. However in a team envrionment you are more likely to help people even if they aren't in your guild because they are still a part of your faction. You want your faction to thrive so you can train more soldiers to fight the opposition.

See how that works..?

You can't just have a game with no rules and a free for all. There needs to be structure to move players psychologically in the right direction to create communities, even those outside their guild. Players also need incentives. Now some players don't need an incentive to help, they are just nice, but that will be few and far between and doesn't bolster the community to where it needs to be.

[runlvlzero]

Indeed all the teams servers I played on, especially SZ (played the most there) people would try really hard to help their team. It shifted the focus of the game from "me" to "us" in a general sense. Even when cross teaming was involved it was usually for the benefit of the top dogs of a particular team which in turn benefited those newbies because those top dogs were continually recruiting from the noob pool of their favored teams.

Theres always exceptions and theres even people on FFA just out to ruin your day some how. But that shouldn't deter us from trying a teams server if the Benevolent Dictators are interested =)

<3 U Sirk!

[Rokannis]

Indeed all the teams servers I played on, especially SZ (played the most there) people would try really hard to help their team. It shifted the focus of the game from "me" to "us" in a general sense. Even when cross teaming was involved it was usually for the benefit of the top dogs of a particular team which in turn benefited those newbies because those top dogs were continually recruiting from the noob pool of their favored teams.
!

This guy gets it.

If we also add in the factor that its in a high levels interest to help buff / protect noobs to build more soldiers for his team, we create a brighter more vibrant community who actually sticks around.

I still remember leveling as a newcomer on SZ in Crushbone having high end druids protecting the zone from evil invaders. I used to think..man I wanna be like them. I gave me something to aspire to and drove me to play more. We as humans like to see heroes and work to become them. When others do nice for you, you tend to feed it back as well.

[Bogart]

First off how many games do team pvp? The vast majority of any game with pvp. There is nothing new about it. And it does not work.

You're saying the community will be able to root out assholes, only if they can't attack their own team?

[Rokannis]

Most games do team pvp. However this is usually a 2 sided system. Other games also do mechanics that kill community impact such as instance based PvE / PvP, fast travel, flying mounts etc etc. EQ is different and is the original community game where there are so many things that players have to rely on each other for. That is what made EQ great. So you can't claim other games after EQ as failing simply because they had team based pvp as well. Early WoW team PvP was great, except instances created too big of a safety net. Excessive flying / fast travel methods also kill PvP. When you are immune to PvP interaction when traveling one place to another then zone into an instance, you are doing it wrong.

Teams works in PvP, its already been proven because its already been done and anyone who played on a team server will tell you that it does.

[Rokannis]

You're saying the community will be able to root out assholes, only if they can't attack their own team?

No, assholes will always exist. The point is to reduce the numbers of assholes by creating an incentive for helping your team win (whether they are in your guild or not). When your helpers are greater than your assholes you can actually start building a community.

[runlvlzero]

First off how many games do team pvp? The vast majority of any game with pvp. There is nothing new about it. And it does not work.

You're saying the community will be able to root out assholes, only if they can't attack their own team?

WoW pvp would be far worse off if it didn't have teams. FFA was the least favored pvp in WoW, how much FFA arena goes on? Deathmatch style (not groupvsgroup) zilch its not popular. They even 2v2. Compared to all other forms of pvp.

There are no battlegrounds I played in that were FFA.

The games pvp revolves around Teams to keep players even remotely cohesive and oriented towards a goal other then what their score is at the end of a match. (Its not perfect) but thats what teams does. **Edit and update (addition) I would say that for a game like WoW which is very much every man for himself and zero community teams are extremely successful in fostering teamplay as they were implemented. A lot of people made priests just to get high scores, then figured out by maxing points with healing their score got even higher. These players would otherwise have just made rogues specced in assassination or combat to get the most kills. So it works and gives people who otherwise would miss the big picture incentive to be team players. And develops them. Similar things could be done for EQ. Yet the developers were smart enough to provide an incentive for people to play Holy/Disc priests in pvp. And those guys who got inspired by those classes went on to become awesome pvpers/players (some of the best wow players IMO)

In quake, team play outweighs non team play too, though FFA is more popular because there is no perpetual meaning to winning. In MMO's there is. And thats how teams work, even if by reputation alone.

[Stasis01]

I meet new people everyday I play. I do pub groups. I trade. I'm new to EQ and I'm still learning this game. I've bumped into way more friendly people than ganks or twink pks on red99. Forced teams don't create community, they simple prevent people from attacking their own team. It'll end up with people stealing spawns and you having no recourse cause they're on "your side". It'll add all the downsides of blue, which end up needing GM supervision.

If you're new to red, why post like you know what's up with the box - if you're an anon Nihilum which I believe you are, why are you so afraid of change to make this box a success, are your pixels that precious? Step outside nerd.

[Stasis01]

PS Rokannis hits the nail on the head in every aspect. I played TZ on live and see the glaring issues that FFA has brought this server as opposed to teams - and they're mostly community related.

[Stasis01]

PS no Variance makes it way too easy for the top guild - on a box of nostalgia grown ups like most people it would be fine, with the 20 man cult following of no lifers it's just too easy to monopolize, another failure with the rule creation step that was unforeseeable and needs adjusting.

People say just show up and pvp, except one guild is a VP raid force of 50 people, and the other guild can barely field seb EXP grps, lets be real about the situation here.

[Elderan]

PS no Variance makes it way too easy for the top guild - on a box of nostalgia grown ups like most people it would be fine, with the 20 man cult following of no lifers it's just too easy to monopolize, another failure with the rule creation step that was unforeseeable and needs adjusting.

People say just show up and pvp, except one guild is a VP raid force of 50 people, and the other guild can barely field seb EXP grps, lets be real about the situation here.

Killed Trak with 19 the other night... You are telling me 30 other people could not show up to take it?

Variance will do nothing but force guilds into expanding their rosters to fit the needed hours change. Do you think those casuals are going to be ready to respond to a batphone at 4am in the morning or 11am during the day?

Stasis you know better. The problem is no other great leader has emerged who can hold people together long enough to contend.

[Stasis01]

You killed Trak with 19 because there is no reason to log on. If another guild showed up your number would inflate to 40+ as has before, so why even drop the 19 bullshit.

I understand you have it very easy and convenient, and this is a bluebies dream which is why you apped to Nihilum essentially from blue and came over to raid with Nizzar.

I don't think casuals will respond to batphones at 4am, but I think if they have numbers around at an odd hour (remember we kept losing pvp fights to Azrael because of timers being pushed back) they might be able to snipe the occasional dragon. The current population and basically 0 opposing raid force has been developed into this, there are people willing to fight/play but if you face a bigger no life/stronger guild with no variance every time they just quit - which is exactly what has happened.

I played the leadership card a lot when I was griefing Azrael/Force - but it was mostly just trolling and fucking with people. No variance favors #1 guild, it was designed to create pvp but all it has done is shit on the little guy.

[runlvlzero]

You killed Trak with 19 because there is no reason to log on. If another guild showed up your number would inflate to 40+ as has before, so why even drop the 19 bullshit.

I understand you have it very easy and convenient, and this is a bluebies dream which is why you apped to Nihilum essentially from blue and came over to raid with Nizzar.

I don't think casuals will respond to batphones at 4am, but I think if they have numbers around at an odd hour (remember we kept losing pvp fights to Azrael because of timers being pushed back) they might be able to snipe the occasional dragon. The current population and basically 0 opposing raid force has been developed into this, there are people willing to fight/play but if you face a bigger no life/stronger guild with no variance every time they just quit - which is exactly what has happened.

I played the leadership card a lot when I was griefing Azrael/Force - but it was mostly just trolling and fucking with people. No variance favors #1 guild, it was designed to create pvp but all it has done is shit on the little guy.

This is it. Pretty much. I'm too casual to be bothered to log on when I am not playing. Nor is it even REALISTIC. My life > EQ (even if I can and do put in a lot of late nights). If mobs happen to be "spawning" when I happen to be playing. I might be bothered to log in Miria and heal/pvp/raid.

Max knows, I will pvp if I'm not left alone vs insane odds. I will even pvp vs insane odds, but it gets old as fuck.

I'm leveling a new cleric. I want to get in on some of this on a char thats 100% mine I feel no obligation to share. But I will not be poopsocking batphones. But if there was a way to communicate to me while I was on that shit was going down in a certain zone. Than I would be all for that. Especially towards max level 50+

I don't really like vent/TS its unimmersive as fuck and having to wear bulky headsets while I wait for someone to yell into my ears is not suitable (I will conceed its useful when actually doing something communication intensive). Some kind of batphone system would be a reasonable alternative even if I only showed up 10% of the time. That would be better than what it is currently. Which is basically never. This probably goes for the rest of the server not in nihilum. However "false batphones" were you show up and wait for 4 hrs to do nothing (or have a great big circle jerk) is going to kill a system like that for me. I'll stop caring when boy crys batphone(wolf)

Lastly I cant even group with mainstream Nihilum. They are so sedentary and dedicated to this game that I cannot play at their speed. It makes me ill thinking about it. Theyre fun to group with when the ball gets rolling, but they are capable of waiting around literally hours or hopping on 3-4 different toons over and over just to pharm pixels. Its quite litterally impossible to get on a toon and dungeon crawl with them if they have been assigned a mission from god aka Nizzar.

[Stasis01]

My guild on TZ never faced PDM heads up - we couldn't. But we were small and could mobilize quickly, and took targets in the shadows.

Like I said before, whether that's because PDM didn't care or were unaware I can't confirm.

Other fun things that TZ had that I remember being fun was meeting pvp partners such as Zhengeist, sticking up for my team mates/creating friends. If you're being griefed in a team setting you throw out an OOC and if people respond regularly they'll develop a good reputation and friendships. Same team guilds hosting public raids, like the blood tribe naggy raids, planar raids etc where smaller crews can contribute and gear up without the fear of losing them to the other side.

This rule set didn't work - you're a top tier blueb Elderan, so is Nizz - you guys will get your raid targets I'm sure, but this box is toxic for new players, full of assholes, and a rule set that favors that attitude.

[Elderan]

You killed Trak with 19 because there is no reason to log on. If another guild showed up your number would inflate to 40+ as has before, so why even drop the 19 bullshit.

It is funny how people like you claim all they want is pvp yet all they want is to be able to kill raid mobs. Yet when you know x people are going to be at x place those pvp lovers wont show up because they might lose. Lets be honest 90% of people who love people are just mostly people who love to catch people off guard and kill them aka gankers. When they may lose they wont fight.

I understand you have it very easy and convenient, and this is a bluebies dream which is why you apped to Nihilum essentially from blue and came over to raid with Nizzar.

I am sorry I don't go around ganking people. I honestly feel sick when I kill someone who isn't ready to pvp, so I don't do it unless it is someone who has talked a ton of trash or attacks me. I like to pvp when people and or groups know its coming. That is by far the best pvp.

I don't think casuals will respond to batphones at 4am, but I think if they have numbers around at an odd hour (remember we kept losing pvp fights to Azrael because of timers being pushed back) they might be able to snipe the occasional dragon. The current population and basically 0 opposing raid force has been developed into this, there are people willing to fight/play but if you face a bigger no life/stronger guild with no variance every time they just quit - which is exactly what has happened.

The odds are slim that any casual guild would have enough people and get a mob down before Nihilum got a counter force there.

You claim people love pvp yet they quit when they cant get a raid mob when pvp is just waiting there for them. People who love pvp quit because there isnt enough people around to gank. Others quit because they are more blue and cant get the raid mob.

I played the leadership card a lot when I was griefing Azrael/Force - but it was mostly just trolling and fucking with people. No variance favors #1 guild, it was designed to create pvp but all it has done is shit on the little guy.

When I say leadership I dont just mean one person. It takes a collection of people to be a top guild. The top person is key though.

Stasis.. On a more personal note. I know you are still hurt from Nizzar beating you in the botb on Elderan. But man you got to let it go. Nihilum did nothing but good things for you. You got everything from them with very little play. I mean you played maybe 2-4 hours a week and got every item of gear you wanted. You took 30k from the GM event and never put it in the guild bank and we didnt crucify you for it.

Let it go man....

[Stasis01]

This has nothing to do with the BOTB or how Nihilum treated me - the guild did no wrongs to me, and I feel no shame in losing in the best of the boulders.

This has to do with the box being 100 population, and being one guild playing.

I know a one guild PVE box is right up your alley, hence the personal attacks.

[Stasis01]

Gream won fairly easy, and I've smacked him around several times practicing, he's beat me also - put in boulders, I'd lose 9/10 and that 1/10 is a stretch if my poison/duelist brought me the W.

[Colgate]

I honestly feel sick when I kill someone who isn't ready to pvp

rofl

[Stasis01]

Back to the issues though - people don't want to face the top guild heads up every single time, it's design is flawed for the top guild. I'm out peace out.

[Elderan]

This has nothing to do with the BOTB or how Nihilum treated me - the guild did no wrongs to me, and I feel no shame in losing in the best of the boulders.

This has to do with the box being 100 population, and being one guild playing.

I know a one guild PVE box is right up your alley, hence the personal attacks.

I know a one guild PVE box is right up your alley, hence the personal attacks.
Nope I want 1k people on this server every night. That would be great, but I still want to kill all of the raid mobs.

Every server ends up being a one main guild and other guilds fall below that. With very rare exception every live EQ server was like that though Velious. People just need to accept that and be happy being in a 2nd tier guild.

[Elderan]

Back to the issues though - people don't want to face the top guild heads up every single time, it's design is flawed for the top guild. I'm out peace out.

So you are saying you want raid mobs without the pvp...

That is exactly what you are saying.

[Rokannis]

EQ is a community based game, it always has been, that has been its draw from the start. Massively MULTIPLAYER...It is not a fast paced FPS where FFA is fun because you can hop in, kill some kids and hop out. Most everything in EQ takes some form of communication with others whether it be buffs, ports, raiding, group pvp, exping, trading etc. FFA by its very name is FREE...FOR...ALL. Every man for himself promotes a selfish mentality from the get go. Why promote selfish game play in a community based game? Why not create a server with rule sets that help build communities and steer them in the right direction, then the drama and player politics can build from there.

What people don't realize about teams is that psychologically you are more willing to help people of your same faction than you are to help everyone that can be labeled an "enemy". If the top "evil" team was heading towards a raid mob on SZ, we would announce it in the most public of places and the neutrals would come rallying together to fight a common enemy. You could say you can do the same on an FFA server, but do you really care as much when the guy /oocing just PKed you yesterday? Fuck that guy.

People also don't understand when people are pushed into teams they work to support them no matter what happens, good or bad. Now that isn't true for EVERY player...but there is an underdog syndrome and there are plenty of good players who like to not take the easy way out. Its like the football fan who cheers for his team even though didn't make it to the play offs. He's still their fan and will live and die by his team. Psychology 101 guys. People like to feel associated with something. Its the same reason we all play EQ and why DND was invented, because its a sense of belonging, whether you admit it or not.

[Rokannis]

Back to the issues though - people don't want to face the top guild heads up every single time, it's design is flawed for the top guild. I'm out peace out.
However...if there were 3 teams, and 2 teams who were tier2 guilds banded together, they could actually stand a chance.

The nice thing about teams is that even if you are a tier 2 guild on the server, you are a tier1 guild for your team. So you don't feel as "second" class and you have something to fight and strive for.

[Dullah]

EQ is a community based game, it always has been, that has been its draw from the start. Massively MULTIPLAYER...It is not a fast paced FPS where FFA is fun because you can hop in, kill some kids and hop out. Most everything in EQ takes some form of communication with others whether it be buffs, ports, raiding, group pvp, exping, trading etc. FFA by its very name is FREE...FOR...ALL. Every man for himself promotes a selfish mentality from the get go. Why promote selfish game play in a community based game? Why not create a server with rule sets that help build communities and steer them in the right direction, then the drama and player politics can build from there.

What people don't realize about teams is that psychologically you are more willing to help people of your same faction than you are to help everyone that can be labeled an "enemy". If the top "evil" team was heading towards a raid mob on SZ, we would announce it in the most public of places and the neutrals would come rallying together to fight a common enemy. You could say you can do the same on an FFA server, but do you really care as much when the guy /oocing just PKed you yesterday? Fuck that guy.

And yet, as someone who had max level char on blue and red server, rallos zek had far and away the better community. There was a strong system of chaos vs order there, and most of the pvp was warring factions of anti-pk guilds.

[Zutroy]

Oh shit. Xyshina =) How are you? I was just talking to static, and oadina.

[Elderan]

However...if there were 3 teams, and 2 teams who were tier2 guilds banded together, they could actually stand a chance.

The nice thing about teams is that even if you are a tier 2 guild on the server, you are a tier1 guild for your team. So you don't feel as "second" class and you have something to fight and strive for.

Problem with teams right now would be the vast majority would join whatever team Nihilum was on. Otherwise they have no chance end game. So one team would be 80% of the pop and then this might as well be a blue server.

[Rokannis]

Problem with teams right now would be the vast majority would join whatever team Nihilum was on. Otherwise they have no chance end game. So one team would be 80% of the pop and then this might as well be a blue server.

Obviously. Thats why we need a Red NEXT. Zekkers would be coming out of the wood works to relive their former glory. But anyone who's played teams couldnt give a fuck about FFA. Nor does FFA sound appealing to anyone on blue, especially with the dicks it creates.

Guarantee you former Zekkers would also join whatever team Nihilium wasn't on just to pummel their face in and drag them down a few notches.

[Rokannis]

Oh shit. Xyshina =) How are you? I was just talking to static, and oadina.

who u

[Elderan]

Obviously. Thats why we need a Red NEXT. Zekkers would be coming out of the wood works to relive their former glory. But anyone who's played teams couldnt give a fuck about FFA. Nor does FFA sound appealing to anyone on blue, especially with the dicks it creates.

Why would they create yet another pvp server. this server has shown that people like blue more than red. If anything they would create a new blue server to split the population up some.

[Colgate]

p sure the reason why red99 is dead isn't because people don't like pvp

it's because within a week everyone realized how awful the server was set up

but you weren't around then eldermoran so i'm not going to think for a second that you have any sort of valid opinion on the matter

[Stasis01]

Elderans hobby is killing dragons, we get it so he sides against change since he has a 1 guild blue server.

Low lvl/mid level community, team community, opposition, rivalry, economy, alts, casuals all of these factors don't contribute to Elderan's perception of a good server. He just wants to be in the top guild and get all the pixels, which he has - Nihilum isn't that exclusive either bro, some of your stuff sounds high horseish, and you don't impress me.

[Alecta]

Static = Mindgames, right?

[Stasis01]

Sry had to get one last post in before GF attacks me, 4 nights in a row 7-7 fuck.

[Bantam 1]

p sure the reason why red99 is dead isn't because people don't like pvp

it's because within a week everyone realized how awful the server was set up

but you weren't around then eldermoran so i'm not going to think for a second that you have any sort of valid opinion on the matter

Given how the red folks act on the forums - it also has to do with your community. There's a level of "well you don't like the red server because you're a ******" which actually makes people happy red is such a fail currently (you're basically 99% blue with an xp bonus and 1% lopsided pvp)

Personally I'd like there to be a working pvp server with a healthy population, but I think regardless of the specific rule set you're going to have a ghost town of a server due to your own community.

[Elderan]

Elderans hobby is killing dragons, we get it so he sides against change since he has a 1 guild blue server.

Low lvl/mid level community, team community, opposition, rivalry, economy, alts, casuals all of these factors don't contribute to Elderan's perception of a good server. He just wants to be in the top guild and get all the pixels, which he has - Nihilum isn't that exclusive either bro, some of your stuff sounds high horseish, and you don't impress me.

I have listed MANY realistic suggestions which would actually work within the context of this server.

I honestly don't care about loot. One thing I learned 14 years ago is that loot comes and goes but people are much more important.

[heals4reals]

Forum attitude is a biproduct of in game frustration

[heals4reals]

Nope I want 1k people on this server every night. That would be great, but I still want to kill all of the raid mobs.


I honestly don't care about loot. One thing I learned 14 years ago is that loot comes and goes but people are much more important.

[runlvlzero]

Would laugh if an honest to god anti pk guild showed up. Nihilum likes to think they are. But they are blueb guild. They don't give a fuck all about pvp or noobs. They only antipk when raid boss is involved.

THIS is the problem with the server there is not enough players to make a guild that is both Nihilum (for the fag pixel lusters) and antipk (for the people who want to pvpvsPKs) and give noobs a reason to care about the box.

Not to mention the toxic element that comes over from blue and pisses off everyone that tries to help them, then they join Nihilum and forget about any help the ever recieved from PK's or others on the box who randomly FFA it up. (Yes I am/was once guilty of that behavior)

Short story: I gave like 400plat + help to this barbarian whow anted to start a barbarian only guild. Where is this guy now? What happend to this grand idea. Where are the barbarians? Its an impossible idea. But would be great. I hope the guy is still playing and their dreams not 100% crushed. But every time anyone gives a shit about the box it vaporizes into thin air...

[Elderan]

Nope I want 1k people on this server every night. That would be great, but I still want to kill all of the raid mobs.

Killing raid mobs is part of winning to me...

[heals4reals]

"We're all alone gais."

"Success."

[Elderan]

"We're all alone gais."

"Success."

We cannot possibly worry ourselves about what others feelings and motivations are. We play the game for fun and if it stops being fun we will stop playing.

[Rokannis]

Static = Mindgames, right?
yep

[Rokannis]

Why would they create yet another pvp server. this server has shown that people like blue more than red. If anything they would create a new blue server to split the population up some.

You are pretty stupid if you actually believe that. Myself and lots of my friends included who are old SZers would never touch an FFA server with such terrible rules. Ive explained in such great detail why teams is better than FFA but keep skimming over the posts and making stupid useless points, its really helpful to the thread.

[Elderan]

You are pretty stupid if you actually believe that. Myself and lots of my friends included who are old SZers would never touch an FFA server with such terrible rules. Ive explained in such great detail why teams is better than FFA but keep skimming over the posts and making stupid useless points, its really helpful to the thread.

They could create a new red server and maybe get 100-150 new people.

Or they could create another blue server and get 500-600 new people.

[Rokannis]

They could create a new red server and maybe get 100-150 new people.

Or they could create another blue server and get 500-600 new people.

All you add is negativity to the thread and push away people who actually want to play on a good rule set pvp server. But from the looks of it, you are in a top tier blue guild on a dead red server...so why would you want anything different?

I would think Nihilium folks would want a challenge, instead ya'll derail the threads and are the only ones against the idea of teams. Afraid of old school folk coming out of the wood work to give you a run for your money? Isn't that the whole fun of a PvP server...competition?

[runlvlzero]

They could create a new red server and maybe get 100-150 new people.

Or they could create another blue server and get 500-600 new people.

No blue would just split and the guilds not defeating TMO would move to the new sever. It would only serve do reduce competition on blue. There is plenty there now so this is not neccissarily a bad thing. I mean if they are getting enough donations to host a new blue box I wouldnt rage if they put one out. I would be glad for them.

Would not play there though.

[Dullah]

All you add is negativity to the thread and push away people who actually want to play on a good rule set pvp server. But from the looks of it, you are in a top tier blue guild on a dead red server...so why would you want anything different?

I would think Nihilium folks would want a challenge, instead ya'll derail the threads and are the only ones against the idea of teams. Afraid of old school folk coming out of the wood work to give you a run for your money? Isn't that the whole fun of a PvP server...competition?


How convenient, someone that disagrees with you, while justifying their opinion, is intentionally derailing your thread.

[runlvlzero]

The amount you care in your misguided way shines thru Dullah. You just don't seem to care about anyone not in your Nihilum pals club, which alienates a lot of potential allies you could have.

[Dullah]

The amount you care in your misguided way shines thru Dullah. You just don't seem to care about anyone not in your Nihilum pals club, which alienates a lot of potential allies you could have.

I'd have said the same on your behalf had you made a good point that came under attack.

[Nirgon]

This is why the copy to teams server is gewd. Team implementation requires development tho and its based on more things than just race but also religion.

There were also custom religion options for the SZ server.

Best to just focus on and hope for fixes to existing box.

[Rokannis]

I'd have said the same on your behalf had you made a good point that came under attack.

Thats just it, none of his points were good. They were blatant favoritism to his 100 man red server that no one wants to be a part of. Yes heres a good idea, defend a dead server thats broken beyond belief and provide no practical solutions and no logical evidence to back up statements.

[Rokannis]

Best to just focus on and hope for fixes to existing box.

Except thats stupid because no one wants to play on a broken box that just keeps getting band-aided. As many others have stated in previous threads, the damage has been done and the trust is gone with the Red server. People have a bad taste in their mouth and don't want to return. The only way to revive population is a new box, end story. How many people post threads or post ON threads that they would play or would love a team server...now how many people say they will come play if you band aid the server? Its not rocket science.

[Dullah]

Of course, your opinion is not biased as someone with little to nothing to lose on the present box, yet whose clearly against those who've played and enjoyed this server for years.

thanks and gfy

[Syft]

Static = Mindgames, right?

oh shit Alecta from UM damnnn

[Rokannis]

Of course, your opinion is not biased as someone with little to nothing to lose on the present box, yet whose clearly against those who've played and enjoyed this server for years.

thanks and gfy

No ones saying to get rid of your box.

And lets not forget, they are just pixels bro. We all play for the experience and get away, the items at the end of the day mean absolutely nothing.

And even if we were, 100 people losing pixels on a broken server that will not bring in any more numbers...in fact it will only continue to lose players from here on out...is not a loss, its a gain.

The best way to fix it is create Red: Next. Once a bunch of people reach level cap, have the option to copy your char over with no gear. Make this work with blue too.

There you have your char, and now you can have fun actually playing on a server with people instead of a wasteland and you can work to re-dominate the raid scene. You can keep your pixels on your dead server, because it will still just as dead as it is now its not going to get better.

You know I'm right, and you know you can't attract a new population or influx of players on Red99, no matter how much you band aid it. The damage is done.

Take note that everyone defending this lunacy of trying to fix a broken server is Nihilium and Nihilium alone. The worst idea the EMU guys could do is cater to one guild of jobless jabronis.

[Rallyd]

Basically what I'm reading here is this...

Nihilum wins.. enemy guilds try to come together to beat Nihilum, but can't stop killing each other over petty squabbles long enough to contest. Now enemy guilds want to change the rules of the server so that they CAN'T kill each other over petty squabbles so they can get enough power to contest.

Hit the nail on the head?

[Dullah]

No ones saying to get rid of your box.

And lets not forget, they are just pixels bro. We all play for the experience and get away, the items at the end of the day mean absolutely nothing.

And even if we were, 100 people losing pixels on a broken server that will not bring in any more numbers...in fact it will only continue to lose players from here on out...is not a loss, its a gain.

The best way to fix it is create Red: Next. Once a bunch of people reach level cap, have the option to copy your char over with no gear. Make this work with blue too.

There you have your char, and now you can have fun actually playing on a server with people instead of a wasteland and you can work to re-dominate the raid scene. You can keep your pixels on your dead server, because it will still just as dead as it is now its not going to get better.

You know I'm right, and you know you can't attract a new population or influx of players on Red99, no matter how much you band aid it. The damage is done.

Take note that everyone defending this lunacy of trying to fix a broken server is Nihilium and Nihilium alone. The worst idea the EMU guys could do is cater to one guild of jobless jabronis.


You're right, Nihilum wouldn't roll up on one team and do the same thing there that they do here.

Also, I have no characters, no items and no personal motivation to stay on any server or argue on it's behalf, so I guess your theory is already in shambles.

[Rokannis]

Basically what I'm reading here is this...

Nihilum wins.. enemy guilds try to come together to beat Nihilum, but can't stop killing each other over petty squabbles long enough to contest. Now enemy guilds want to change the rules of the server so that they CAN'T kill each other over petty squabbles so they can get enough power to contest.

Hit the nail on the head?

Because human psychology and how games affect how players play the game is that simple. /sarcasm

Theres a science to creating thriving communities.

[Rokannis]

You're right, Nihilum wouldn't roll up on one team and do the same thing there that they do here.

Also, I have no characters, no items and no personal motivation to stay on any server or argue on it's behalf, so I guess your theory is already in shambles.

I would hope they do. Because with a team rule set people who actually want more logical fighting will come play. You will bring in an influx of EQ pvpers who have been searching to re-live their glory days but always thought FFA was a garbage idea or tried it the first two weeks and quit.

[Dullah]

I would hope they do. Because with a team rule set people who actually want more logical fighting will come play. You will bring in an influx of EQ pvpers who have been searching to re-live their glory days but always thought FFA was a garbage idea or tried it the first two weeks and quit.

and my heart goes out to each and every one of them

[Stasis01]

Basically what I'm reading here is this...

Nihilum wins.. enemy guilds try to come together to beat Nihilum, but can't stop killing each other over petty squabbles long enough to contest. Now enemy guilds want to change the rules of the server so that they CAN'T kill each other over petty squabbles so they can get enough power to contest.

Hit the nail on the head?

My assessment would be different - I see one guild that likes the current rule set.

There are key parts of the game lacking on red99 due to various issues that make it a fun community to play on other than the #1 raid guild farming pixels.

Most people quit, but the real die hards come here and argue that the box is perfect and everything is good, even though it's really low population, and most of the people that start here quit. The model doesn't work, and only favors the top guild. I have nothing against Nihilum as people, but their just promoting their selfish motives.

[mtb tripper]

wheres tomato

[Rokannis]

Basically what I'm reading here is this...

Nihilum wins.. enemy guilds try to come together to beat Nihilum, but can't stop killing each other over petty squabbles long enough to contest. Now enemy guilds want to change the rules of the server so that they CAN'T kill each other over petty squabbles so they can get enough power to contest.

Hit the nail on the head?

Basically what I'm reading is...

Our servers bad and we know it but we don't want anything to change or anything new, well you can patch it but please just let us farm dragons alone by ourselves cause we earned it on a bad rule set server that has a 150 population.

[mtb tripper]

basically what im reading is inverted earth

[Rallyd]

red99 is in a bad state, because people quit, because they couldn't stop fighting each other long enough to achieve goals in the game. I am doubtful patching will bring them back from this respite unless they believe it has dramatically increased their chances of beating Nihilum. The only way I can see for this to happen is for the patch to directly or indirectly negatively effect Nihilum.

I'm always for the RZ solution, item loot solves everything, however this is something that has to be done at the start of the server and since it was not, there is no fixing it.

RZ fostered the server's growth with a top guild alliance, which said that if you randomly griefed people off the server by PK'ing, you weren't allowed to get top end gear in the top end guilds. I think this is the way for us to fix the situation this server finds itself in. Change to an anti-grief mindset.

[Dullah]

Lot of straw man arguments floating around here.

No one thinks the server is perfect. Doubt theres anyone in nihilum that wouldn't like to see some things changed regarding pvp like resists, clickies and other mechanics that aren't in the spirit of fairness and fun.

The whole bluebie zerg argument is even dumber today than it ever was in the past in light of the documented evidence on the leaderboards.

http://i.imgur.com/85UkEbl.png

Though some players in Nihilum (and every guild for that matter) favor pve with limited pvp, the majority of our guild like the competition and came to this server for the ability to circumvent the unavoidable cockblock that existed on every blue server since 1999. Suggesting otherwise just makes you look like butthurt man-children.

Look, theres no magic formula that is going to spontaneously produce a high population EQ pvp server in 2013. This is a niche inside a niche. Its was actually pretty amazing to hear there were over 200 concurrent players on red a matter of weeks ago.

Morale is currently down with the opposition, its understandable, but no amount of crying for wipes or attempts to hurt Nihilum by changing the dynamics of the server is going to fix things. The neckbeard is strong with these ones, and most of them would bounce right back in a different scenario or ruleset. The so-called solutions you have should, in general, work on the present server just as well as a new one. If what you're suggesting would "only work on a new server", your theory is probably bullshit and you have ulterior motives.

Hopefully in the coming months some fixes and tweaks can be made, maybe some form of blue>red char copies, and some sort of relaunch can be had for red prior to Velious. Until then, villainizing nihilum for winning isn't going to solve anything, it only makes the playerbase look less worthy of the staffs precious development time than it already does.

[Sirken]

God's Work - confirmed best pvp guild