EQNext Discussion

[liveitup1216]

really all they have to do is make it so that as a plate class defensive gearing scales well. boom, done. if done correctly, defensive gearing may afford you the ability to dodge less hostile attacks and thereby increase dps because you can sit and burn a lot more than someone who has to run around dodging shit.

boom youre a tank.

It sounds like that is their design goal. Class panel said if you want to be a purist you can do it. If you want to fill a perceived role like healing, pick up as many healing ablities and supports as you can. Same goes for tanking, crowd control, etc.

If they do it right, you will still have the same sort of hard roles available, while also being able to blur the lines between those if you want to. You'll be doing them in a new way since AI won't have threat but it also won't behave mindlessly like Guild Wars 2's joke of a system, so yes the death of staring at health bars and healing them back up is here. The death of dedicated healing? Still sounds strong to me, you'll be better off in this scenario since a dedicated healer build will still have some bite to it (damage) and utility etc mixed in.

This is all per their panels, we're just waiting to see if they deliver. Their design promises are very much black and white, as in either they do it or they don't. It's good for us because if they don't, it will be obvious quickly and it will be probably the worst launch in history.

But if they do pull it off, Everquest will have set the standard for another 15 years as they claim.

[Razdeline]

This

cant wait!

[mwatt]

My take is that this could be very cool, although it won't be much like EQ as we know and love it (morons, they don't recognize a winning formula when they have it).

What I FEAR and suspect is that it will be overly wowified. Player chars will be too powerful, death too inconsequential, travel too easy, weapons and shoulders too big, special effects overdone and everything just a little bit too cartoony.

They know nothing of subtlety. I saw them ruin Vanguard because of this. This will go the same route I imagine.

Still, I am more interested than I thought I would be, though the graphics style is a huge turnoff for me.

[raff01]

Kind of ironic people bitching about removal of roles were probably those who were bitching about class balance back in the days.
Removal of roles is fine. You just need to set the right limitations :

I will take a very EQ like sandbox MMO (except full PvP) : DarkFall Online. A great game where they removed the roles. You just skill up and develop whatever skill you train and that gives you access to new skills. But the problem with DarkFall is you may train everything and have all the skills.
What they need to do is have a limited number of skillpoints that's all.

Also they need to make it so that there isn't just a few specific templates which are viable. Same goes for crafting.

[fadetree]

Free form multiclassing = fail

[newsmurf]

Son of a bitch they did it to me again, every time I look at shit for this game, I want to go ape shit on someone who is developing it.

-https://www.everquestnext.com/eqn-faq-

Station Cash is Sony Online Entertainment's virtual currency. It's simple and easy to use. All of your Station Cash is stored in a digital wallet. Once your wallet has been funded, you can use Station Cash to make purchases through the in-game Marketplace. The in-game Marketplace is an integrated store where you can purchase an assortment of premium in-game items, services, content and features to enhance your gameplay experience.

What the fuck, /facepalm.

[t0lkien]

Watch out newsmurf. The local anti-anti-EQN thugs are going to jump all over this post. In before the no-modern-game-can-make-money-without-being-free-to-play-and-selling-itself-and-the-very-soul-of-games-via-an-ingame-cash-store apologists.

[Nyrod]

hi

[Nyrod]

i like your sig tolkien

[t0lkien]

i like your sig tolkien

Thanks bud. I get bored and keep changing it. It's like a very slow moving .gif

[fadetree]

If we want a game like old eq, we are going to have to write it ourselves. If I happen to retire early, I'll get started on it. Gonna need art support, I can't draw worth balls.

[newsmurf]

just hurts my soul. so much hope. so far so much sadness =/. everytime i see a piece of what is to come for the game, feels like they chip away at something that was once really special =///////.

[Fawqueue]

One of many reasons I'm concerned. I haven't played even ONE of these F2P games yet that I went "Wow, this cash shop really made the experience for me!". I've either completely ignored it, like that friend of a friend you can't stand but figure as long as he never opens his trap he can come along...or I've hated it, like said friend who once again says something stupid and you recall exactly why he's never invited.

My slim hope is that there will still be a full subscription option that offers me equal or better footing with people who want to splurge on the cash shop.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

post so full of dumb. its practically dumbful.

[newsmurf]

post so full of dumb. its practically dumbful.

details. puss.

[myriverse]

Son of a bitch they did it to me again, every time I look at shit for this game, I want to go ape shit on someone who is developing it.

-https://www.everquestnext.com/eqn-faq-

Station Cash is Sony Online Entertainment's virtual currency. It's simple and easy to use. All of your Station Cash is stored in a digital wallet. Once your wallet has been funded, you can use Station Cash to make purchases through the in-game Marketplace. The in-game Marketplace is an integrated store where you can purchase an assortment of premium in-game items, services, content and features to enhance your gameplay experience.

What the fuck, /facepalm.
And you knew this a year before the announcement. Stop whining.

[newsmurf]

fug your rug, i am allowed to lament.

[newsmurf]

and actually i did not, i never looked at it until the announcement. so _l_

[Ellouelle]

In before the no-modern-game-can-make-money-without-being-free-to-play-and-selling-itself-and-the-very-soul-of-games-via-an-ingame-cash-store apologists.
does anyone actually believe that?
http://www.eveonline.com/

[t0lkien]

does anyone actually believe that?
http://www.eveonline.com/

The entire industry believes it right now. Just another reason I love what CCP did (and they did it against industry "wisdom" at the time). Though I admit their game is for the hardest of hardcore.

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h162/t0lkien/LearningCurve1_zpsad97d6ac.jpg

[Ellouelle]

The entire industry believes it right now. Just another reason I love what CCP did (and they did it against industry "wisdom" at the time). Though I admit their game is for the hardest of hardcore.
The entire industry believes a lot of bullshit. If you look at the population curves for various mmos you can see that most of them have no clue what they're talking about. EVE is the only mmo that's got a steady upward ramp that never really drops and keeps trucking upward despite being over a decade old. Looking at the behavior of mmos, it's set to overtake wow in a few years as the most popular mmo in the west--assuming the next generation flops, which i doubt--eso looks like it'll take the casuals by storm as far as i can tell.

mmodata.net

here's what the industry should believe: if your game is well-crafted, people will pay to play the game itself. if you have to do an obnoxious ass-backwards payment plan then you are showing that you don't really believe in your game's chances of being well-received.

[Halius]

The entire industry believes a lot of bullshit. If you look at the population curves for various mmos you can see that most of them have no clue what they're talking about. EVE is the only mmo that's got a steady upward ramp that never really drops and keeps trucking upward despite being over a decade old. Looking at the behavior of mmos, it's set to overtake wow in a few years as the most popular mmo in the west--assuming the next generation flops, which i doubt--eso looks like it'll take the casuals by storm as far as i can tell.

mmodata.net

here's what the industry should believe: if your game is well-crafted, people will pay to play the game itself. if you have to do an obnoxious ass-backwards payment plan then you are showing that you don't really believe in your game's chances of being well-received.

Amen to that.

I do agree too that ESO will take a lot of subscribers because:

1. Elder Scrolls games are hugely popular and a lot of people are interested in what their take will be in an online format.
2. People like those here will be drawn to the non-cartoony looks that ESO is offering.
3. There is a bigger chance that they can go with subscriptions instead of F2P model with all the popularity that the games have. Just like WoW did after all their success with their other games; people were willing to pay to play their next game.

Either way I think the problem is that ESO is going to melt a lot of PCs with the kind of graphics they are showing and many people won't be willing/able to upgrade their PCs to run the game smoothly. That is why I think EQnext went with their cartoony models, it will be easier for a casual players PC to run that game which in turn means more people playing the game (or so they hope). I think EQnext looks like crap, but because it is EQ I will give it a shot, more likely then not though I will end up here and on ESO. Just my 2cents

[Messie]

Thanks bud. I get bored and keep changing it. It's like a very slow moving .gif

I was actually thinking, the snow in this sig should be a gif and it would be the perfect sig. but that would be hard

[liveitup1216]

ESO looks so, so, so bad.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Free form multiclassing = fail

Have to agree with this. I love the idea of tons and tons of classes, but swapping the abilities seems like it could lead to some bland shit. They mentioned LoL quite a bit in their panels--how boring would it be if you could simply take the best Q the best W, etc. ? There isn't always an objective best, but really, some classes just have shitty Q's and that was okay because they were an ult-only kinda class.

[t0lkien]

I was actually thinking, the snow in this sig should be a gif and it would be the perfect sig. but that would be hard

Now that's a good idea. Hmmm... give me time to figure it out.

[liveitup1216]

Player chars will be too powerful

the gameplay was shown with beefed up toons and weak mobs set to stand there

death too inconsequential,

one of the panels said they're not ready to reveal death mechanics but that there needs to be risk vs reward

travel too easy

another panel mentioned something along the lines of better have money for wizard ports, though the parkour stuff may make travel seem easy. hopefully the world is as big as they say

weapons and shoulders too big

devs said you can customize armor scaling if you want, if someone wants normalized armor/weapon scaling, you can set that yourself.

special effects overdone

again they said the screen full of particles and debris was to show off the tech, but we'll see

and everything just a little bit too cartoony.

agree with you there, i understand going in a stylized direction, but the disney/pixar types of faces just for SOEmote? Super dumb, nobody gives a shit about making faces on a webcam.

[monti]

Here's my prediction.

EQ Next gets released
Around same time, P99 Velious is released
Everyone comes back to P99 because EQ Next sucks compared to Velious.









P99 Luclin gets announced. Panties drop.

[maker]

Hey guys, I've been reading through the EQ Next forums and it really seems like people are asking for the wrong stuff in an MMO. It's like most of these people haven't even played the MMO's that have failed. WE need to get on there and post our thoughts or else sony is going to listen to the wrong part of the community.

I hear people say that sony is going for the casual players because that is where the money is, well that is what EVERY company says and goes for. If they make a game tailored to the hardcore gamer they might do better.

http://www.eqnforum.com/ here's the link people, please go spend some time giving your thoughts on how the game should be. Bring back that hardcore feel to a new MMO which NO one has done.

[fadetree]

Well, I can appreciate the intent, but it's not going to happen. Sony does *not* want to make a game that we would like, and no amount of forumquesting will make them change that. And anyways, they do not, and apparantly never will, understand that the heart of the game is in it's difficulty and restrictions, not in its freedoms and easiness.

If they make a game tailored to the hardcore gamer they might do better.

At what? Making money? Um, nope.

[timhutton]

Hmm..

[maker]

Sony will listen to our input guys, post on the EQN Forums!

[SamwiseRed]

Hmm..

i see destin from red99 posting :P

[Clark]

I was so far beyond unimpressed with the twitch unveiling videos at SOE fest or w/e it's called. Not to mention how they made people watch some gay sand artist for 30minutes that was the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life. Glad I was able to skip through it.

Game looks pretty whack, especially the imported Lion characters..idk.

[Clark]

If we want a game like old eq, we are going to have to write it ourselves. If I happen to retire early, I'll get started on it. Gonna need art support, I can't draw worth balls.

;D

[Clark]

I was so far beyond unimpressed with the twitch unveiling videos at SOE fest or w/e it's called. Not to mention how they made people watch some gay sand artist for 30minutes that was the dumbest shit I've ever seen in my life. Glad I was able to skip through it.

Game looks pretty whack, especially the imported Lion characters..idk.

[liveitup1216]

Game itself is entirely next gen centric. It is what it is, they said its EQ Next because its not EQ 3. EQ1 is grinding pixels, EQ2 is WoW, EQ Next is back to RPG roots.

[Swish]

You have to tell the players what they want...otherwise it gets extremely messy.

I remember the Trakanon server going up on live back in 2009(?), the last new blue server that was launched. Why was it launched? People voted for it on the SOE forums to replace the Mayong (L51/50 AA) server. I wasn't among the voters but I did see it launch and got involved, made a(nother) shaman and the community was great for a couple of months.

Bearing in mind this is what the community voted for, SOE then made the decision launch a progression server...which killed the population overnight as rumors of a shut down circulated. It did shut down, we were all moved to Tunare and that was the last EQ Live experience I ever had, didn't want to be Swishxxxxx on Tunare :(

A long story, but the point is... if they let the players have too much control over the destiny of the game/servers/community they'll end up ticking a lot of boxes slightly, everyone will get frustrated and probably not play for long.

From that screenshot its funny to see people trying to control the voting :p

[Nirgon]

Let's make a game for idiots and let them decide what goes into it.

[fadetree]

and make them do some of the content too! KA-CHING bayby

[Anderdale]

Sony will listen to our input guys, post on the EQN Forums!

Are those even the right forums? What are the main eqnext forums?

[Pringles]

You cant tell me you didnt see this coming..... EQ / EQ2 / PS2 all have this.

[maker]

Sony doesn't have a forum for EQN yet, this is the main forum people use.

[fastboy21]

Here's what I know:
Races and factions - like EQ1 there will be race/class restrictions. Barbarians for example can be the usual classes (Warrior, Bezerkers (or whatever they call the melee DPS class, Shaman). Different starting stats per race and racial abilities (no clue if the racials are meaningful). If that Barbarian chooses and wants to become an Enchanter, he can go raise his faction with a race that has that class. It won't be an easy ordeal and will take effort. At the time of my info, factions could be individually raised. So a high elf could raise their faction and eventually be accepted by the dark elves but at the cost of their own city/race faction.
The classes I've had confirmed are Warrior, Cleric, Shaman, Wizard, Enchanter, Ranger, Druid, Rogue. There are more, but that was all I know of at this moment.
The playable races I had confirmed are Human, High Elf, Dark Elf, Kerran, Kobold, Ogre, Troll. Again there are more than those playable those are just what I know is playable. I tried to get Ratonga and Iksar confirmation but don't have that yet.
Norrath - the world is gigantic. No zones. The world is seamless. There will be instances in respect to some raids and dungeons but a lot of open dungeons a la EQ1. The extent to which we can damage the environment is still unknown. That's under wraps pretty tight so I'd imagine its damageable to a good extent.
Spells - no more spell trainers. Abilities are granted passively and the big ones have quests and trials attached to them. Enchanters will have to seek out people around the world to learn and study with. Wizards will have to find various tomes to study to learn to weave the strongest spells. Not sure on the spell weaving mechanic but they seemed to indicate the ability to create and discover new spells. So not every wizards spell book will be the same.
Combat - there will be hotbars. It will NOT be like EQ2s combat abortion. That's about all I know on that. I've pressed for details but that info is locked down tight. Tad could well be right here I concede but if I had to guess, it'll be action based combat with a limited skill set load out.
Crafting - it is in the game, it is interdependent and its supposedly more meaning than they've ever made it. Players will be able to make useful and sought after gear and stuff at all levels. Raid/Dungeon crafting drops confirmed but no mechanics specifics.
Misc - this game will be FTP. It will have a cash shop. SOE will make the world, dungeons, raids as usual. Their version of emergent gameplay is us creating content via their dungeon maker/player studio. Player made PVP battlegrounds. This player created content is all instanced not part of the persistent world. So is housing. Guild housing will be in from the get go as well.
Beta - it's already in friends and family alpha/beta. After SOE live, beta will begin early Aug/late Sept. they are trying to launch Nov/Dec. the latest this game will launch is Feb/March time frame. They are much farther along then they let on and that's part of their surprise.
Minus a detail here or there, that's all I got. Take it for what it's worth to you.


Very unreliable information. Post your sources please, much of what you said directly contradicts or adds to the information released by the devs at SOE Live.

[liveitup1216]

For anybody who's interested or hasn't looked for themselves yet, this is from Storybricks over a year ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tYBHo8F4gQ

If they accomplished this much as a kickstarter 1.5 years ago, imagine what they're doing now that Sony is pumping money into them.

I have a strengthened resolve in their claims to this AI system. What a beast of a job to build an entire world using this system.

[Rust1d?]

I want to beta test this before I pass judgement but some of the ideas are kinda cool, some not so much.

- I like that I can start as a DE mage and gain faction with, say the dwarves. I always thought that EQ1 lacked the ability to "switch sides" and be able to complete quests in towns where I would be KOS.

- Multi-classing seems like a good idea, but I think they should have stuck to traditional roles. Multi-classing will create OP classes, gimped/never played classes etc. Lots of balance issues too. If I am playing a wizard, I am playing it because that is my play style. If I wanted to be a wizard who can heal, I would just be a cleric...

- Destructible environments seems cool ala minecraft. Say you are raiding naggy and want to prevent another guild from showing up, you simply destroy a few bridges etc. Although, if you can find different areas like you do in minecraft, people will just start digging random holes all over the place.

- Graphics look too cartoony and WoW like. The Kerran looked like shit.

- Combat looked like a mess, but will reserve judgement when beta opens.

- Oversized weapons and shoulders looks too WoW/Diablo 3 like. They need to get away from that.

[Kika Maslyaka]

some of my views you probably don't care about but still:

-Multiclassicing - utterly ruins my thematic enjoyment of game. Clerics bestow holy blessings, druids protect nature, Mages control elements, necromancer raise the dead. When I see a char who can do everything at once (even if in limited power) I don't want to be in that theme world anymore. I liked how Rift looked (generally), but I cannot stand a thought that you can be necromancer/paladin. It just doesn't make sense. Yes you can come up with any lore you like to justify that, but its not something that is acceptable to me.

-Destructible environments - utterly pointless in the grand matter of things. Its an MMO, not a minecraft/terraria. I won't be mining 50000000 tons of ore and making your own mushroom gardens everywhere. The point of the fantasy theme MMO is to seek out monsters and slay them - not to dig in the mud. Not to mention you WON"T b able to do any major destruction like - destroying the only bridge that grants access to a unique raid mob - since that would be causing grief to others and most likely count as banneable offense. (not to mention that 90% of all group/raid content WILL BE instanced)

- Graphics = Disneyland. Can you say that SOE is desperate? EQ1 was eclipsed by WoW within a few months, and EQ2 failed to stand up to WoW subscription base after a year, and since NUMBERS is what brings cash in - SOE will naturally try to copy any feature they deem successful in order to draw customers their way. I think that EQ2 was a good project in the beginning. The graphics were solid, it offered solo gameplay to casuals, and grouping/raiding to hard core, and it HAD an awesome crafting system. But then SOE started their desperate run to catch up with WoW, dumbing things down, simplifying crafting system, but in the end it didn't matter. And yet again - they didn't learn their lesson. The market doesn't need ANOTHER casual cartoonish MMO - its already has one that is pretty stable and known world-wide. Yet SOE willing to burn 100-200mln on this project in hope to steal just a little bit more of potential players. SOE doesn't try to offer something revolutionary new to get noticed like they did with EQ1, and like Blizz did with WoW, instead they trying to copy every popular feature from other games and serve them on the same plate not putting in any thought if those features even fit together. I can tell you right now what they will gain out of it - EQN will get its moment, draw in some old schoolers, draw in some people who on the break from WoW/other MMOs, start releasing expansion packs twice a year, and as the novelty dies down, it will settle somewhere 100k-200k player base and once again be left in the shadow of WoW.

SOE had their chance if not be successful, to at least be different with EQ2, offering realistic graphics, darker theme and greater shift towards grouping/raiding, but in desperate attempt to catch-up with WoW hype they run their creation into the ground.
EQN will follow the same fate.

[t0lkien]

I was actually thinking, the snow in this sig should be a gif and it would be the perfect sig. but that would be hard

Got it finally. That was not easy.

[Fawqueue]

I want to beta test this before I pass judgement but some of the ideas are kinda cool, some not so much.

- I like that I can start as a DE mage and gain faction with, say the dwarves. I always thought that EQ1 lacked the ability to "switch sides" and be able to complete quests in towns where I would be KOS.

I'm down with this, although I hope they still include racial prejudice into the faction equation so that it requires more work for a Dark Elf to be welcome than a Gnome.


- Multi-classing seems like a good idea, but I think they should have stuck to traditional roles. Multi-classing will create OP classes, gimped/never played classes etc. Lots of balance issues too. If I am playing a wizard, I am playing it because that is my play style. If I wanted to be a wizard who can heal, I would just be a cleric...

I couldn't agree more. I think the evolution of classes in MMOs is much like everything else: Remove punishing choices. Although it may not be my preference, I'd understand if they built a system where you could unlock each class on a single character and choose and change when desired. However, this multi-classing thing is going to make class choices become more like those boring talent trees found in modern MMOs. Optimal builds will be discovered and that's what the large majority will run with.


- Destructible environments seems cool ala minecraft. Say you are raiding naggy and want to prevent another guild from showing up, you simply destroy a few bridges etc. Although, if you can find different areas like you do in minecraft, people will just start digging random holes all over the place.

Since this is a cornerstone of what they are trying to sell, I'm interested to see how it actually plays out. And while the ability to affect raid competition through clever environmental changes would be great, I'm willing to bet a nut that the entire raid scene will be instanced. Since we know instancing is confirmed, and everything else revealed so far suggests an easy experience rather than a hardcore challenge, I can't see them suddenly alienating the casual, new-timer MMOers that are going to be the core demographic by suddenly making raiding 'challenging'. You know, by having to coordinate more than "Everyone be online at 7 and bring your potions".

- Graphics look too cartoony and WoW like. The Kerran looked like shit.

- Combat looked like a mess, but will reserve judgement when beta opens.

- Oversized weapons and shoulders looks too WoW/Diablo 3 like. They need to get away from that.

Yup. I'll hate all of that, but my 12-year old will cream his pants for the first time upon entering the game.

[fastboy21]

Got it finally. That was not easy.

Very cool sig. :)

[Rust1d?]

I think the main thing they need to get right is what EQ1 was based on. That was survival by grouping and requiring certain classes skills. When everybody started EQ, and you needed to locate your corpse, you had to find someone to do that. If you wanted to get from Point A to point B quickly, you needed to find someone to do that.

Want to be able to do deep, hard content? You need a mezzer. Needed a tank? you need to get a warrior.

Every class had their niche (some fulfilled it better than others). You needed to rely on teamwork and diversity to succeed. If the social aspect is not good, the game will fail.

The keys I see for success are:

#1 - Good social apspect
#2 - Balance between hardcore and casual

Everything else would be secondary

[Rust1d?]

If that's the key to success, why do no companies follow that model anymore? Please answer that.

Limiting game access by requiring players of a certain type (or any other way), doesn't bode well anymore. If I only have 1-2 hours a day to play a video game, I should be able to play it, not sit around hoping to find the right class to venture forward. If you want a community the size of P1999, then it may work, but it's a terrible business model for a new game/company. If you target a tiny market, your revenue generated will be...tiny. Businesses exist to make money, not to make us old EQ players happy. Adapt or leave.

If you want success in terms of $$, then yes, casual is the way to go. I meant if the game itself is to be successful, i.e., fun, than it needs balance. But if the game is all about $$, why not just make games like Candy Crush or something like that?

MMOs are not designed to be for casual players. They are meant for people who can devote 40 hours a week to them. Anything other than WoW will fail because why bother going to a WoW clone? How did SWTOR do? It failed and went FTP. So if you are going to make a casual MMO, you may as well save your money.

[liveitup1216]

Limiting game access by requiring players of a certain type (or any other way), doesn't bode well anymore. If I only have 1-2 hours a day to play a video game, I should be able to play it, not sit around hoping to find the right class to venture forward.

Those games already exist. If you only have 1-2 hours to play, that's your problem. You're not entitled to anything just because you're playing the game. That line of thinking is why games like SWTOR and World of Warcraft don't hold my interest. (I initially wrote these games suck, but yes for profit they are fantastic games. For substance and challenge and community, they're awful.)

It's that weird sense of "everyone is special and everyone gets a trophy and you're all winners" mentality that breeds terrible people.

[Kika Maslyaka]

MMOs are not designed to be for casual players. They are meant for people who can devote 40 hours a week to them. Anything other than WoW will fail because why bother going to a WoW clone? How did SWTOR do? It failed and went FTP. So if you are going to make a casual MMO, you may as well save your money.

you contradicting yourself ;) WoW is the ULTIMATE example of MMO for casuals ;)

[Ellouelle]

That line of thinking is why games like SWTOR and World of Warcraft don't hold my interest. (I initially wrote these games suck, but yes for profit they are fantastic games. For substance and challenge and community, they're awful.)
RE: World of warcraft, if you look at the actual quarterly subscription reports--

The game showed explosive population growth from 2004-2009, then halted, then went into rapid decline. For reference, 2009 was the point at which Blizzard decided that all players should be able to access raids without work or effort. Given the current rate of decline, EVE will overtake WoW as most popular western mmo in about 2-3 years.

ERGO: A casual basis doesn't actually make a game more successful. It does the exact opposite.

[Faerie]

It will be a game for casuals. The fact that each player is able to break through the planet's crust is very telling.

[mtb tripper]

I agree with pingu

[Ephirith]

You clearly have 0 real world business knowledge. How will a company survive without "$$"? I'm sure investors will jump at the chance to invest into a game that targets a tiny audience. How did vanguard do? Why was EQ2 built more casual friendly? You're the minority whether you accept it or not. Facts > you.

If MMOs are not designed for casuals, why are all the big MMOs focused towards casuals? Please explain.




That's my problem, sure, and it's your problem the games you want don't exist anymore. You're agreeing with me, and disagreeing with yourself based on facts, great community college logic. You may have an OPINION on those games, but if they're profitable, they're successful. You can't grow without success and MONEY.

How about you invest all of your money and time into the game you want? Just some advice though, you'll be losing money each and every quarter. For your sake, I hope you're Mark Cuban. (jk he wouldn't be dumb enough to invest in such a bad idea)

lol

[Richard Dunn]

Such a shame they botched it, you know they did to...such a dam shame.

[Bodeanicus]

We are talking Sony here. Did you even go to the damn EQn Homepage?? Bottom of the page.


"Free to Play. Your Way.®

Our philosophy is simple. Free games. No commitment. And if you want to buy, it's on your terms."

Do you even have a CLUE what that means??

It means the game will be almost unplayable without spending real money. I hate the F2P model. Gimped games that bleed you to death with micro transactions. Just charge for the fucking thing, but come down off the magic "$14.99 per month" price model.

[Bodeanicus]

Got it finally. That was not easy.

Looks like rain.

[Godefroi]

square sums it all up.

Its all about the money. And the mmo industry (besides blizz/SoE) is poor as fuck. Dont expect anything like 1st gen mmo, they had fees. The new model is f2p, it mechanically modifies the mechanics.


EvE online though isnt to be put in that box. This game is a master piece and is how all Mmo's should be ran.

[liveitup1216]

Dave Georgeson said he wants people playing the game and not looking at maps or wiki's or having their hand held, and that they're tired of every cookie cutter boring MMO out there.

My point was there's already a game for mouthbreathers to get their loot pinata fix and not have to work to achieve anything, and SOE knows this. They're not looking to bite into that market, they're looking to change the market entirely.

Wanting to play for 1-2 hours and be on the same level as someone who plays 20-30 hours is some great special olympics logic. Here's a few hard facts: you're not a special snowflake, life's not fair, other people are better than you.

[liveitup1216]

Lol I'm not mad, I just used your snarky insult back on you regarding "community college logic".

And I am getting the game I want. Everyone can play it and have things to do and evolving content, but the people who do play casually won't be on the same level as people who play more. That's all my point was.

No need to get all defensive young interwebz warrior.

[Millburn]

Speaking of EVE, I'm hopping in a stealth bomber in about 14 days if anybody wants to do some Bomber Bar with me.

[Kagatob]

I read a majority of the posts here in this thread. It seems to me all the salty butt hurt people who are bashing EQNext want it to be like P1999. Here's an idea, play P1999. Dumb.

If that's the key to success, why do no companies follow that model anymore? Please answer that.

Limiting game access by requiring players of a certain type (or any other way), doesn't bode well anymore. If I only have 1-2 hours a day to play a video game, I should be able to play it, not sit around hoping to find the right class to venture forward. If you want a community the size of P1999, then it may work, but it's a terrible business model for a new game/company. If you target a tiny market, your revenue generated will be...tiny. Businesses exist to make money, not to make us old EQ players happy. Adapt or leave.

You clearly have 0 real world business knowledge. How will a company survive without "$$"? I'm sure investors will jump at the chance to invest into a game that targets a tiny audience. How did vanguard do? Why was EQ2 built more casual friendly? You're the minority whether you accept it or not. Facts > you.

If MMOs are not designed for casuals, why are all the big MMOs focused towards casuals? Please explain.




That's my problem, sure, and it's your problem the games you want don't exist anymore. You're agreeing with me, and disagreeing with yourself based on facts, great community college logic. You may have an OPINION on those games, but if they're profitable, they're successful. You can't grow without success and MONEY.

How about you invest all of your money and time into the game you want? Just some advice though, you'll be losing money each and every quarter. For your sake, I hope you're Mark Cuban. (jk he wouldn't be dumb enough to invest in such a bad idea)

Oh, so not having to look at maps and wiki's is so new and exciting. Every new MMO that comes out brags about something that already exists, then adds gimmicky features that on paper and in demos seem cool, but in reality fall short. Guild Wars 2.

Do you realize YOU are the mouthbreather stereotype? The guy who sits around playing an MMO 40 hours a week like a full time job, with an elitist attitude just because your life revolves around the game. Look at your post, and how hate filled you are towards the MMO standard now a days.

No one mentioned anything about playing 1-2 hours and being on the same level as someone who plays 20-30 hours, its about accessibility. If a game requires a near full time commitment like old MMOs use to, it will fail. Look at the facts.

Here's a few hard facts: you're not a special snowflake, life's not fair, other people are better than you. That's why you aren't getting the game you want. That's why you're the minority. Maybe that's even why you're so ignorant. I get it, you hate WoW and you miss the way games use to be when you were younger, but maybe that's a sign you should grow up and step away from the games and work on your own REAL life. Just saiyan.

Typical mainstream fanboi logic. Go back to the Blizzforums. ;)

[Rust1d?]

You clearly have 0 real world business knowledge. How will a company survive without "$$"? I'm sure investors will jump at the chance to invest into a game that targets a tiny audience. How did vanguard do? Why was EQ2 built more casual friendly? You're the minority whether you accept it or not. Facts > you.

If MMOs are not designed for casuals, why are all the big MMOs focused towards casuals? Please explain.




That's my problem, sure, and it's your problem the games you want don't exist anymore. You're agreeing with me, and disagreeing with yourself based on facts, great community college logic. You may have an OPINION on those games, but if they're profitable, they're successful. You can't grow without success and MONEY.

How about you invest all of your money and time into the game you want? Just some advice though, you'll be losing money each and every quarter. For your sake, I hope you're Mark Cuban. (jk he wouldn't be dumb enough to invest in such a bad idea)

It depends on how you define casual. How much can you get done in WoW in say 1 hour? Compare that to how much you can get done, in say Diablo 3, in an hour? Wanna raid in WoW? Well then it just became not casual.

The only things MMOs did to cater to casual players was to remove death penalties, remove Corpse Recovery, Reduce travel time etc.

Diablo 3 is a true casual game because you can run Act 3 a few times in an hour and get decent items. TF2 is a casual game because you can fit in quite a few games in an hour.

Why did SWTOR fail then it is was casual? People went through the content so fast they had to make it F2P. So saying that casual games are a failure is not true. Bad games with bad designs are failures.

EvE is very hardcore and it does well.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Typical mainstream fanboi logic. Go back to the Blizzforums. ;)

the guy is talking about the realistic reason behind the people who finance the games. What this has anything to do with "fan-boy logic" ?

[Kagatob]

the guy is talking about the realistic reason behind the people who finance the games. What this has anything to do with "fan-boy logic" ?

I don't have to explain, he already did for me in his next terrible post. ;)

[Swish]

EQ Next kerrans..... haaaahahahahahhaha!

[Ahldagor]

there's the facts of business which were stated, but because it's a fact it isn't denied, just saddens the fanbase because it's obvious money grab. eqnext is going to fail horribly because it doesn't look fun to play. looks like diablo 3 smashed into minecraft with some sprinkles of eq lore on top or the cupcake.

[Swish]

there's the facts of business which were stated, but because it's a fact it isn't denied, just saddens the fanbase because it's obvious money grab. eqnext is going to fail horribly because it doesn't look fun to play. looks like diablo 3 smashed into minecraft with some sprinkles of eq lore on top or the cupcake.

They're already cutting costs by implementing the same engine as was used for Planetside 2 (PS2 is awesome by the way, I just wish I had a PC that could run it)... they're falling into that dangerous territory of trying to do too much. I like player housing, player designs etc and see why they'd want to draw the Minecraft players in, but at what expense?

Fingers crossed it doesn't flop.

[Kagatob]

Tries to use ad-hominem while claiming to be an EQ fanboi while at the same time having a WoW avatar and every post not only vehemently defending WoW and Blizzard's marketing strategy but downplaying any other method practiced or theoretical.

What was that again?

[Kevynne]

there's the facts of business which were stated, but because it's a fact it isn't denied, just saddens the fanbase because it's obvious money grab. eqnext is going to fail horribly because it doesn't look fun to play. looks like diablo 3 smashed into minecraft with some sprinkles of eq lore on top or the cupcake.

[Kevynne]

Here is what I am HOPING for:


Paid sub (keep it reasonable like $4.99) Screw that pay to win crap.
Pre-dates EQ1, with all the classic continents etc.
Hardcore. Same as Classic EQ - Death means something etc.
PvP server with 3 teams
No instanced crap. I want to camp, KS, Train etc.


What am I missing?


1) agree, but it'll prolly be more like 15-20. And if its not sub, it's f2p bs; which isn't too bad IMO.
2) continents will be different. Game is set 1000 years before events of eq(last I heard that is) placing it in the Age of Monuments/ Age of Blood era. The ro's and oasis were still the elder forest, felwithe was a dark elf city, rallosians (ogres, goblins, giants) ruled most of Antonica, and several other major changes. Kunark, Faydwer, Antonica, and Velious should all be present, just radically different from how we know them. Odus will most likely not be in game, because the Erudites and Cazicites haven't fled the Human settlements yet. However, I've heard talk that the Chetari(or ratonga, pending poll.) will start on odus. So odus may make it into the game, or if kerrans are made playable, odus will be in game. Barbarians will have just come into existence, and hence, will just be starting the foundation of there race. One of the released sandbox thingies is building Halas. The Combine Empire should be there as well, and as such would create a 4th option for humans. (That is if surefall glade is put in). I can't recall many of the changes to kunark, but I do know that the iksar will be enslaved by the shissar, cabilis will not exist, and some very major differences from the kunark we know.
3) we all wish this, but it will not happen. Mmo World is run by casuals now. Maybe make a dedicated hardcore server?
4) agree, sz was amazing with deity based teams. But I also would like to see item loot again. Rz was best pvp server IMO.
5) agree. But it will not happen. The raid zones will all be instances. And most dungeons too.

[Kevynne]

Forgot to mention that felwithe is caerthiel, and is connected to neriak by some tunnel of some sort to neriak. And that takish-his will be in game as the (hopefully) elf starting city.

[Kevynne]

https://www.everquestnext.com/round-table-archive
The polls are looking promising to things in (at leastin my own) favor.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Barbarians will have just come into existence, and hence, will just be starting the foundation of there race. One of the released sandbox thingies is building Halas. .

This is actually incorrect.
According to official lore - Humans come from barbarians, not the other way around.

Barbarians were created by Erolisi Marr, goddess of love.
There were many tribes of Barbarians. At some point they united against their enemies and built the first capital - the First Halas.
Some time later the First Halas was destroyed by their enemies and their tribes were scattered again. Some of them migrated South, spread around and evolved into Humans.

The Barbarians who remained up North have gathered forces once again and rebuilt their city, thought it was much later.

[Kevynne]

This is actually incorrect.
According to official lore - Humans come from barbarians, not the other way around.

Barbarians were created by Erolisi Marr, goddess of love.
There were many tribes of Barbarians. At some point they united against their enemies and built the first capital - the First Halas.
Some time later the First Halas was destroyed by their enemies and their tribes were scattered again. Some of them migrated South, spread around and evolved into Humans.

The Barbarians who remained up North have gathered forces once again and rebuilt their city, thought it was much later.

Gotcha, I thought I was wrong but wasn't too sure.

[Kagatob]

Blizzard's model worked, and still works, hence all the copy cats over the years. My avatar and whatnot is from a year ago from a big WoW topic. I don't play WoW, I'm just not a frothy mouthed hater like you.
Location: World of Warcraft #1 MMO OF ALL TIME
Yep.
I've been on P1999 for years now. Yet again, you have no response to any points, just have a personal vendetta against WoW.
Join Date: Jul 2012
uh huh.
Sad.
The one part of your post that makes sense, but not for the reasons you think it does. :)

[SamwiseRed]

you seem to confuse popularity with quality. whether wow has 100 players or 1000000 i think its a terrible game now. vanilla wow was a great game however and I really miss the massive world pvp it had. just because twilight was number one at the theatres doesnt make it a good movie. surely you understand this concept.

also what do you consider #1 mmo of all time? most subs? most success? best reviews? longest running?

[Uggme]

Additionally, liking anime would probably make you MORE likely to be a WoW fanboy... not less.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Kagatob is a latent WoW-fanboy - that's why he is so pissed at Square ;)

[Kagatob]

Additionally, liking anime would probably make you MORE likely to be a WoW fanboy... not less.
Elaborate on this please, this is the first time I've ever seen this type of correlation. Ever.
Most anime fans don't like 'cartooney' graphics in games. Hard to understand I know. ;)
Kagatob is a latent WoW-fanboy - that's why he is so pissed at Square ;)

Yep fanboy of a game I've logged exactly 0 hours 0 minutes 0 seconds in. :)

[SamwiseRed]

wow so good i play p99 instead.

[Millburn]

Would you guys just have passionate anal sex already? This suspense is killing me.

[moe]

sorry to break up this wow discussion thread, but

im trying to figure out if ill need to buy a new computer to run this fully destructible voxel shit

can anyone relatively savvy on this topic tell me if anything exists that may be a helpful benchmark? I know it depends largely on the quality of SOE's coding, etc..

here's a list of voxel games
http://madrealms.net/forum/more-games/list-of-voxel-games

gonna go down the list and see if i can run shit, but i just wonder if this effort is misguided because eqn will be so above and beyond all these indie titles

[moe]

on a related note wtf is a voxel exactly

here's my laptop specs:

processor: intel core i7-3630QM @ 2.4 ghz, can overclock.. it runs cold, haven't tried it
ram: 8 gb, can buy 8gb more if i have to but never saw a need
graphics: NVIDIA geforce gtx 670MX ~7ghz total available graphics memory

i use a slow hard drive right now but i got a slot for a solid state thinger.. never really needed that either

i guess i have a little room for upgrading if i need to, but not graphics

btw its a big ass laptop, biggest ive ever seen


... downloading the heaven benchmark 4.0 now

[Uggme]

Elaborate on this please, this is the first time I've ever seen this type of correlation. Ever.
Most anime fans don't like 'cartooney' graphics in games. Hard to understand I know. ;)

Oh, I suppose my statement was more of an observation I've made in the years I've been attending conventions. Anime fans generally also have a strong affiliation with WoW. WoW normally has a large presence at these conventions, despite if there is a venue specifically for it.

I'm just saying it's more likely based on what I've seen. I've yet to apply the scientific method to my observations, however :)

[Kagatob]

Most anime fans like 'cartoony' females instead of real females too. How is anime not 'cartoony' anyway, since it's literally what a cartoon is...

So you talk about a subject you (obviously) know absolutely nothing about and then try to berate me for the same thing? Well played?

Oh, I suppose my statement was more of an observation I've made in the years I've been attending conventions. Anime fans generally also have a strong affiliation with WoW. WoW normally has a large presence at these conventions, despite if there is a venue specifically for it.

I'm just saying it's more likely based on what I've seen. I've yet to apply the scientific method to my observations, however :)

Which conventions? Outside of the multi-genre Connecticon, I've not seen a single WoW-anything cosplay ever and I try to go to at least 5 conventions per year. This year at AB13 there was a very well done League of Legends cosplay... that's one person out of 60,000. Large presence is an odd choice of words.

[Uggme]

in Florida cons it's everywhere. Or at least was everyhwhere while WoW was mega-big. They'd have specific costuming contest for WoW only related costumes. You could always find panels specifically about WoW. The dealers rooms have lots of WoW related products. Guild RL meetups would take place all the time. Plus these were cons with a specific focus on anime.

Maybe it's just in my state. /shrug

Metrocon in Tampa an AFO are the two bigger ones that come to mind that I normally attend

[Kika Maslyaka]

You're the one with the personal vendetta.


He is a latent wow-fanboy as I already said. ;) He may never played WoW, but deep inside he wants to, but too ashamed to come out. That's why he lashes out on it any chance he gets ;)

[moe]

wow is cool or sux watever lets talk more bout me now plz

[Kagatob]

This is a topic about EQNext, not anime. For all you know I'm obsessed with samurai champloo.
Actually I wasn't the one who brought up anime. Good try though. ;)
Name more toonami shows from 10 years ago please.

[idontbuff]

Actually I wasn't the one who brought up anime. Good try though. ;)
Name more toonami shows from 10 years ago please.

Steins;gate! TOTALLY FROM THAT ERA

[Kagatob]

Steins;gate! TOTALLY FROM THAT ERA

EQ next needs more time travel and more CRT :D

[idontbuff]

EQ next needs more time travel and more CRT :D

More gel banana too

[Kagatob]

More gel banana too

Gelbana and Dr. Pepper.

[moe]

what i really hope to see from eqnext is absolutely no running from zone to zone at all

an instant fast travel as per skyrim would be perfect, except you already have every zone on your map

[Kagatob]

an instant fast travel

/puke

[Swish]

Forgot to mention that felwithe is caerthiel, and is connected to neriak by some tunnel of some sort to neriak. And that takish-his will be in game as the (hopefully) elf starting city.

Why would the high elves and dark elves want a tunnel between their city? More broken lore :p

Makes you wonder if they'll pull that EQ2 shit with ogre wizards/wood elf SKs again...

[Kika Maslyaka]

Why would the high elves and dark elves want a tunnel between their city? More broken lore :p

Makes you wonder if they'll pull that EQ2 shit with ogre wizards/wood elf SKs again...

I thought that was dumb too. When I played EQ2 I only made proper race/class combos ;)
However, if you go back to the days of Rallosian Empire - Ogres were highly intelligent and can easily include wizards....
Of course there were never any Wood Elf SK... :rolleyes:

Keep in mind though, EQN features - no class system, which means ANY race can be cleric/druid/mage/necro/ranger hybrid

[lecompte]

Keep in mind though, EQN features - no class system, which means ANY race can be cleric/druid/mage/necro/ranger hybrid

Last round table vote made called in to question our perspections of the developer's race/class combination intentions.

I hope the game has some kind of hardcore element -- I imagine we'll have to make up our own hardcore elements... or pray there is a hardcore server (roguelike!) or some crap. Seems like everytime someone asked/asks a question of a developer regarding an element that could be construed as distasteful or hardcore they respond with, "Well, we won't be doing that because the game would be less accessible but we have something really cool worked out to deal with that." Sounds like a load of crap to me.

[liveitup1216]

Forgot to mention that felwithe is caerthiel, and is connected to neriak by some tunnel of some sort to neriak. And that takish-his will be in game as the (hopefully) elf starting city.

I'm not sure about the felwithe/neriak thing, because dark elves aren't a different race (yet) in this lore. Takish-Hiz is already destroyed again in this lore as well, happened when the high magic ended the elven ruling era.

I'm eager to read the rest of these e-books to find out what happens to the Tier'Dal in this lore.

[Kevynne]

Why would the high elves and dark elves want a tunnel between their city? More broken lore :p

Makes you wonder if they'll pull that EQ2 shit with ogre wizards/wood elf SKs again...

Not broken.
Felwithe is built in ruins of a dark elf city.

High Eli's fled takish hiz, landed in faydwer, fucked up the dark elves of caerthiel who were believed to be completely eradicated in the battle, however there was a tunnel of some sort that allowed some survivors to escape to Antonica, where they found neriak at the opening(or something along these lines) high elves then built felwithe atop caerthiel

[Millburn]

Not broken.
Felwithe is built in ruins of a dark elf city.

High Eli's fled takish hiz, landed in faydwer, fucked up the dark elves of caerthiel who were believed to be completely eradicated in the battle, however there was a tunnel of some sort that allowed some survivors to escape to Antonica, where they found neriak at the opening(or something along these lines) high elves then built felwithe atop caerthiel

That's...epic; makes me really wish there was some sort of dungeon attached to Felwithe now.

[Kevynne]

That's...epic; makes me really wish there was some sort of dungeon attached to Felwithe now.

IKR? Me too!

[Loto]

Not broken.
Felwithe is built in ruins of a dark elf city.

High Eli's fled takish hiz, landed in faydwer, fucked up the dark elves of caerthiel who were believed to be completely eradicated in the battle, however there was a tunnel of some sort that allowed some survivors to escape to Antonica, where they found neriak at the opening(or something along these lines) high elves then built felwithe atop caerthiel

Source material?

[Swish]

http://i.minus.com/i9ikm8euCqR4s.gif

http://cinemabythesea.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/laughing-hysterically_thumb.gif?w=267&h=199

wru ESO?

[myriverse]

I'm not sure if that EQ Beta story became canon. In Beta, there was an in-game book called "Face Behind the Mask" or something. Innoruuk took the Elven King and Queen to the PoH and corrupted them into becoming the first Dark Elves. He then sent them back to Norrath, to Faydwer, where they eventually created a vast empire. Caerthiel was the home city, where Felwithe now is. "Face Behind the Mask" was removed from the game after Beta. Part of this might have been kept in LDoN... I don't remember.

Freeport was another former Dark Elven town (Wielle).

This story also claimed that Dark Elves were the true loyalists, and the High Elves were rebels. Wood Elves turned on the Dark, assuring their victory. Truth? Propaganda? Who knows...

[Kevynne]

Source material?

Google caerthiel.

[Kevynne]

To summarize, tunare made elves. But innoruuk somehow was there main god.
At some point more elves became loyal to one of 3 (tunare, Anashti sul, or innoruuk) Anashti was banished and her followers then joined tunare. The tunarians(called rebels) eventually overthrew the innoruukians(loyalists) just as they were about to lay siege to caerthiel(the elven capital) a priest of innoruuk led the elves under the ground and under lot and into the nektulos forest. The time spent under the ground in these tunnels darkened there skin and improved there vision, this made them dark elves, made innoruuk become filled with hate, and caused the never ending feud between ththe elves. In a fit of rage at seeing caerthiel abandoned, the elves destroyed it and got to work building felwithe. Some elves didn't like felwithe, and went to live in the trees and became wood elves. The end.

[myriverse]

Alla's collected that Beta lore:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/beta_lore

[Kevynne]

I like it. Because it flips the tables, and makes the holy rollers goody goods 2 shoes elves show there bad side, and makes the characters more human in nature.