MOLLE or ILBE assault pack

[r00t]

I need a bug out bag that can store bout 4 days worth of shit. I'm only looking for an assault pack although will probably get a main pack in the future. Looks like army stayed one way and marines went another. I dont know fucking shit though, and theres only like two OLD threads with SHITTY answers and no poll. I know some of you jarheads have had to have used both?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_18/646012_Questions_about_packs_ILBE_vs__Molle_II_vs_ Civilian.html
http://www.genmay.com/showthread.php?t=823412

MOLLE
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51lXRU4rKmL.jpg

ILBE
http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2012/11/03/641710_01_usmc_ilbe_assault_pack_digital_640.jpg

My purchase will be within the hour

[r00t]

I want to get tattoos of an owl attacking on one side of my chest and a sad eagle on the other

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/species/graphics/owl2.jpg http://www.texasdude.com/9-11-01/trade%20center%20eagel.jpg


Then a neck tat across my throat saying "mama tried" so girls think I am cool & dangerous

[Shaunte]

I use the MOLLE as my work/everyday pack. (Free, thank you U.S. Military.)

I keep an expedition pack as my disaster preparedness pack("bug out bag").

If anything awful were to happen and I had either with me(which is 99.9999% of the time) I would be significantly more well off than most.

[Ishukone]

MOLLEs need some bullshit metal frame with them too, don't they?

[r00t]

Yea think main/expedition pack would be overkill for now, just need to stuff some essentials, few changes of clothes, and a laptop in it. Wondering which is more comfortable/roomier/etc.

[Daldolma]

I want to get tattoos of an owl attacking on one side of my chest and a sad eagle on the other

http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/species/graphics/owl2.jpg http://www.texasdude.com/9-11-01/trade%20center%20eagel.jpg


Then a neck tat across my throat saying "mama tried" so girls think I am cool & dangerous

have "ain't no doubt i love this land" tattooed around bicep with glorious eagle flying overhead

[r00t]

pretty much got sold into the molle, was leanin that way too

[Hasbinbad]

u could always get a regular backpack, and that way you wouldn't look like a dick.

[radditsu]

u could always get a regular backpack, and that way you wouldn't look like a dick.

[r00t]

you ever think maybe theres a reason the military doesnt use jansport

[Daldolma]

u could always get a regular backpack, and that way you wouldn't look like a hero.

[r00t]

http://i.imgur.com/lCtMKTVl.jpg

[r00t]

I was looking at civilian brands that seemed credible, until I saw the packs were like 30 bucks. Don't trust stitching, zippers, or durability. I wasnt opposed to it, hence the poll option. When you need something rugged and can hold up a lot of weight without breaking or giving you back problems you gotta turn to America's finest

[Bazia]

Assault packs don't have that much space in them tbh.

I doubt you would be able to fit 4 changes of clothes in there, it's not designed to support 3-4 days in the field.

That's what Rucksacks are for.

[Bazia]

Although I will say they are extremely rugged, I've never seen one break.

[r00t]

I'm a packrat so I guess we'll see. I agree rucksack is better and will get one too, but don't want to lug it around daily.

[r00t]

I guess you could attach a jansport to a rucksack lolo

[Barkingturtle]

Probably be better served to abstain from that purchase and instead buy an hour or two or therapy. Best of luck though--whichever bag you opt for--and I hope your bad-ass murse helps soothe your paranoia some.

[r00t]

its more for travel, hunting, than the apocalypse. If the compound is overrun all hope is lost anyways

[Malice_Mizer]

So are you about to go full-on Ted Kaczynski yet or what?

I'd be willing to bet my last dollar on the fact that you will end up a hermit woodland dweller ranting about the magical properties of your urine bucket.

[Barkingturtle]

Less Unabomber more Brokeback, imo.

[Malice_Mizer]

Never heard anyone refer to their cinderblock basement apartment as "The Compound" before.

[r00t]

we all know the complete collapse of society is coming in our lifetimes

[Malice_Mizer]

As every generation before you has said since the humans became self-aware. Your opinions are nothing new, nor is your evidence any more compelling than it was 100, 500, or 1000 years ago.

[r00t]

What of the dozens and dozens of societies that collapsed in that time?

[r00t]

None of which had the largest debt in world history and a naked welfare-loving warmongerer in office

[Kagatob]

Maybe you should worry about paying your rent that you were so hellbent about killing yourself over not being able to afford?

[Malice_Mizer]

I'm confused as to how you're able to draw equivalencies between our distant past and the world's sole superpower/global hegemon. What do you visualize when you think of "societies" collapsing? I think you're referring to governments collapsing. Societies don't collapse-- they evolve. The Roman Empire fell, and a new regional order of decentralization came to the fore, giving rise to the nation-state and the conditions that allowed Europe to conquer the world.

I don't think the nature of power vacuums, our societal sense of law and order, and our global importance, all combined with the state of modernity really lends itself to your conception of "societal collapse."

The global financial infrastructure relies on US debt, and the reliability of that debt (more than 1/3 of which is directly held by the US government itself). Nothing would possibly happen where the US government somehow defaults on its debt. That would send literally the entire planet into a tailspin of chaos. We're simply too important. We have the world under our nuclear umbrella. The dollar is the de facto global currency. Virtually every state on this planet relies heavily upon our financial assistance and military presence. The US at this juncture is unlike any other state in the history of the world, and for that reason, your premise and equivalencies just aren't applicable.

[r00t]

Maybe you should worry about paying your rent that you were so hellbent about killing yourself over not being able to afford?

you got the wrong guy

I'm confused as to how you're able to draw equivalencies between our distant past and the world's sole superpower/global hegemon. What do you visualize when you think of "societies" collapsing? I think you're referring to governments collapsing. Societies don't collapse-- they evolve. The Roman Empire fell, and a new regional order of decentralization came to the fore, giving rise to the nation-state and the conditions that allowed Europe to conquer the world.

I don't think the nature of power vacuums, our societal sense of law and order, and our global importance, all combined with the state of modernity really lends itself to your conception of "societal collapse."

The global financial infrastructure relies on US debt, and the reliability of that debt (more than 1/3 of which is directly held by the US government itself). Nothing would possibly happen where the US government somehow defaults on its debt. That would send literally the entire planet into a tailspin of chaos. We're simply too important. We have the world under our nuclear umbrella. The dollar is the de facto global currency. Virtually every state on this planet relies heavily upon our financial assistance and military presence. The US at this juncture is unlike any other state in the history of the world, and for that reason, your premise and equivalencies just aren't applicable.

I will agree with that point. That's why the coming hyperinflationary holocaust will be the complete and total collapse of society. Current path is unsustainable, money as debt while arguably necessary does come with consequence (especially with the abuse of the past decade), and the only people willing to change the system are sidelined and silenced.

[Malice_Mizer]

You also seem to ignore that Obama has overseen dramatic slashing of the budget deficit.

Remember S&P's bitching about our credit rating a while back, essentially saying that Tea Party Republicans are so obstructionist that S&P doubts Congress's ability to achieve a debt/deficit deal? Here's a headline from last month:

"S&P says shrinking U.S. deficit boosts debt outlook"

So, so many things would happen before, as you put it, "total societal collapse."

Inflation is stable at ~2%, and has been for years. Hyperinflation is 20%+, I'd say. Bernanke actually said that a healthy inflation rate is a bit higher than the one we currently have. It would actually be more advantageous for the US government to achieve higher inflation rates, because the cost of our debt would shrink in real dollar terms.

[r00t]

Then you'll have a run on the dollar a it quickly turns into the paper it's not printed on

[radditsu]

Then you'll have a run on the dollar a it quickly turns into the paper it's not printed on

Hyperbole.

[Malice_Mizer]

Hyperbole.

Also known as "fucking unintelligible nonsense."

[radditsu]

Also known as "fucking unintelligible nonsense."

[r00t]

It's not exactly outide the realm of possibilities, especially when your suggestion to pay the debt is to devalue the currency (although realistically the only way, hence collapse imminent)

Obama's gonna lshrink the debt np any day now

[Ryba]

Being a paranoid nutter seems like a great gig. Whenever you get called out on your theories you can just accuse everyone of being an unwitting sheep. Instant win, no cognitive dissonance.

But good luck with your tactical sack. You should put an advanced macroeconomics textbook in there so you can learn why everything you know about monetary policy is a myth next time you "bug out" to your pillow compound.

And Obama is not worse or better than any other option, you just sound bigoted when you act like some other puppet would have been different.

[r00t]

I basically alluded they sideline and silence everyone who isn't a puppet. Puppets don't change things.

Now we have morans suggesting devaluing the currency to pay the debt is a great idea without any consequences and that I'm the one who needs an economics book.

Thread served its purpose at least.

[radditsu]

It's not exactly outide the realm of possibilities, especially when your suggestion to pay the debt is to devalue the currency (although realistically the only way, hence collapse imminent)

Obama's gonna lshrink the debt np any day now


China (sneakily) devalued its currency and put massive amounts of cash into public works projects. All to compete with a resurgence of the dollar. They havr not been as well off as people think. They are the equivalent of 60s america at this point.

japan devalued its currency to boost its commodity market after nuclear boom and tsunami combined with a decade of sluggish growth. Both of these worked well.

take the german centirc slash austerity approach in europe. It has done nothing but extend a recession. They should be focusing on growth and development projects. Like money for Cyprus oil fields.

at least we are finally seeing some news from spain.


time and time again it has been proven to invest in your people and be responsible with growth projects and your country will thrive. Currency devaluation has...at least recently shown to help jumpstart stalling systems.

manage your inflation rates dawg

[Loke]

God, neither. The IBLE you show really is a horrible pack. It looks like the "assault pack" portion of the full pack system. Almost everyone I knew who was in a unit that gave them a choice on packs used some sort of mountain ruck on an alice frame. If I were making a bug out bag I'd probably just hit a military surplus store and buy a cheap large alice pack, frame, an isomatte. Rip up the isomatte and riggers tape it around the frame tubes and where the pack needs more support. Then just line it with a thick garbage bag and you've got a waterproof and buoyant pack that military operators have been using for the past 50 years. In a town outside of a military base that has a lot of surplus stores you can buy everything for under $50 probably.

[r00t]

I remember China's currency manipulation in recent times to compete with the dollar. The other examples including Europe's failed austerity measures make your post highly informed. I guess in the end it's the difference between using devaluation to fund public works projects versus paying the most colossal debt in human history.

[r00t]

God, neither. The IBLE you show really is a horrible pack. It looks like the "assault pack" portion of the full pack system. Almost everyone I knew who was in a unit that gave them a choice on packs used some sort of mountain ruck on an alice frame. If I were making a bug out bag I'd probably just hit a military surplus store and buy a cheap large alice pack, frame, an isomatte. Rip up the isomatte and riggers tape it around the frame tubes and where the pack needs more support. Then just line it with a thick garbage bag and you've got a waterproof and buoyant pack that military operators have been using for the past 50 years. In a town outside of a military base that has a lot of surplus stores you can buy everything for under $50 probably.

The alice system is pretty old school. I read other people recommending them but just figured they were grizzled old timers with but a few moves left in them. I figured these modern designs would be better. I paid $80 for the molle, new ofc

[radditsu]

I remember China's currency manipulation in recent times to compete with the dollar. The other examples including Europe's failed austerity measures make your post highly informed. I guess in the end it's the difference between using devaluation to fund public works projects versus paying the most colossal debt in human history.


I would invest now heavily and push the debt down the line until a huge natural gas export boom that will happen in the next 5 to 10 years. Pay ad much as possible down then. Keep a 3% deficit ish with a decent reserve until the Chinese come calling after they inevitably have some sort of govt collapse and need their investments returned to keep afloat.

This will never happen while we have an obstructionist house and senate majority with no backbone.

[Bruno]

I've had the MOLLE since like 2007 and it's amazing. I'm pretty sure it's going to last forever. The thing is a tank.

[Malice_Mizer]

There are so many unknown variables, too. Before 1993, nobody could accurately predict how much the internet would totally transform economic production in the US and around the world. It gave rise to massive economic growth and development that helped the Clinton admin raise the revenues to balance a budget, return a surplus to paying down the debt, and hand it off to the next admin.

It's hard to even imagine what the US economic situation will look like in 20 or 30 years, or even by the end of this decade, when the CBO says the US will need to develop a comprehensive plan to deal with the debt before the figurative clock starts ticking down on a fiscal crisis. It's hard to determine what economic growth will be like, but economics generally agree that austerity has objectively damaged our ability to grow, and that growth would be at least a percent or two higher if it weren't for the sequester and similar punitive policies.

Overall, the public debt-to-GDP ratio is almost half what it was during WW2, and is close to what it was in the 1950's and mid-90's.

[Kagatob]

China (sneakily) devalued its currency and put massive amounts of cash into public works projects. All to compete with a resurgence of the dollar. They havr not been as well off as people think. They are the equivalent of 60s america at this point.

Comparing china to a nation that funded Vietnam, put a man on the moon and was financially stable enough to soon after survive Nixon. That's honestly quite the compliment.

[Malice_Mizer]

I'm sure that was a totally qualitative and not quantitative analysis on his part.

[radditsu]

They could put a man in the moon in the next 5 to 10 years if they focused on it. They have rocket tech and could steal american nasa talent at premium right now.

But we are still fucking with mars.

I mean they do have a nuclear arsenal and money to fund it. They are going to focus on africa mineral exploitation and building a real navy first

[Kagatob]

To be fair wern't they the equivalent of 1890's America not 20 years ago?

[Lowlife]

I traded my ILBE for a british pack on Bastion and carried it my entire last A-stan deployment. Way better. try and find a surplus one.

[Kagatob]

But we are still fucking with mars.

I mean they do have a nuclear arsenal and money to fund it. They are going to focus on africa mineral exploitation and building a real navy first

Don't get me started on the space program. The single thing I liked in Bushes entire 8 years (permanent lunar base) was the first thing Obama killed with his budget plan. We'd be to Europa by now if they actually gave half a shit.

As for a navy wouldn't it be more economically feasible to just keep brown nosing the US and mooch off of their worldwide network?

[Malice_Mizer]

The US's long-term military and political goals in the Pacific is to hand off military responsibility to Japan and Korea, because the US can't continue its heavy presence in the region without inciting conflict with China's rising hegemonic power. They wouldn't rely on US military presence because its viewed as more of an intimidating force than protective one.

Overall, we're an adversary of China on many different fronts, and their rise poses more of an existential threat to the US and its sole global hegemonic status for the past 24 years than not, and they are well-aware of this fact. The big question is whether or not China's on-going economic growth collapse is going to continue, because their projections have just not been fulfilled for several years in a row now, and it's starting to frighten the political leadership.

[SamwiseRed]

assault packs suck, they barely have enough space for a laptop. never used mine in the military unless it was part of some gay ass mandatory packing list.

[radditsu]

Don't get me started on the space program. The single thing I liked in Bushes entire 8 years (permanent lunar base) was the first thing Obama killed with his budget plan. We'd be to Europa by now if they actually gave half a shit.

As for a navy wouldn't it be more economically feasible to just keep brown nosing the US and mooch off of their worldwide network?

you cant have air superiority in the asian theatre without carrier support and enough destroyers to shield them.


Basically to throw weight around in east asia island nations for deepwater oil fields around the Phillipines

[Kagatob]

Just because competition is all you've ever known doesn't mean it's the only option or even a sound idea.

Had communism only waited about two-hundred years or so...

[radditsu]

Just because competition is all you've ever known doesn't mean it's the only option or even a sound idea.

Had communism only waited about two-hundred years or so...

You have to feed your people. You have to continue to grow and develop. I do not fault china for what they have done over the last 20 years.......in regards to economic policy and even military policy. I mean, they are ffucking awful in regards to social policy. But they have done everything america did post ww2 to become a true superpower.

Either way they are ccertainly not communist anymore. Its some fucked up hybrid.


Communism would truely only work in a post scarcity society....aka star trek

[Malice_Mizer]

Conflict and competition is the nature of international affairs, plain and simple.

Any illusion of cooperation exists for an individual state to achieve its own stated goals and desires.

The US is working to defend its status as sole global hegemon, and China is trying to gain more power-- economic, political, and militarily, just as any other state is. Not to mention their very founding principles and ideology is rooted in the demonization of the West and capitalist culture, the US in particular.

The anti-imperialist becomes the imperialist. Isn't that always the course of human political history?

[radditsu]

Conflict and competition is the nature of international affairs, plain and simple.

Any illusion of cooperation exists for an individual state to achieve its own stated goals and desires.

The US is working to defend its status as sole global hegemon, and China is trying to gain more power-- economic, political, and militarily, just as any other state is. Not to mention their very founding principles and ideology is rooted in the demonization of the West and capitalist culture, the US in particular.

The anti-imperialist becomes the imperialist. Isn't that always the course of human political history?


Guilds begat ib.Ib begat tmo. Tmo begat future even more bullshit guild.

[Langrisser]

As every generation before you has said since the humans became self-aware. Your opinions are nothing new, nor is your evidence any more compelling than it was 100, 500, or 1000 years ago.


while i sort of agree with the nothing new part about paranoia...

there is quite a difference in the world now with the exponential / logistic growth and the stage of technological advancement.

however, instead of weapons you will need to avoid biochemical threats. what you dont see will hurt you more than ever before... and before, people didnt even believe germs were "real" ...

anyway... fail burn

[runlvlzero]

MOLLE jesus fuck its simple dood.