Racism: the Dying Regime

[Vineyea]

I'm not quite sure what the story is behind this sudden outrage and attention to racial and ethnic heritage on the forums. Honestly, I havn't watched T.V. for the past three months and I'm in a void of understanding concerning this latest thread of inquiry... It should be obvious to any educated person that the myth of racism is somehow, far be it from me why the fuck this is, striking a chord and becoming a subject of "debate".

There's nothing to see here. There's no real debate. I can argue about the fundamental nature of the space-time you exist in. The very environment you call home, being subject to rules derived from a guess, who's antecedent structure is a hypothetical law. I'm tired of this shit. Shut the fuck up already...

Do you want my prediction? It's this: the old racist fucks are going to die. Their children? Their children are going to be an ignorant minority. Eventually what? Eventually people in the future will mock our inquiry, not because the intellectual capacities to understand it are minimal, but because the 'achilles heel' refutation is simply intrinsic to any coherent understanding of an adequately modeled world.

And speaking of models, it's good for people to be educated in the historical context of the events we witness. I wasn't around in the 60's. I know there are people alive today who have seen, witnessed, experienced, and been poisoned by the racial animosity that makes up a good portion of this nation's history... To this end I suggest a book I wasn't able to finish when I first enrolled in college (it was a difficult read), and that is "waiting till the midnight hour: a narrative history of the black power movement in America".

Engaging in a debate with a comprehensive view is the best thing we can do. Having read that book or not, I understand that the differences between ethnicities is culture and skin color. There isn't too much more than that--- I defy anyone who would like to suggest otherwise.

...I don't mean to attack anybody here. There's no one person I'm aiming at. It isn't that I carry a grudge against this post or that. Instead the problem seems to be that I have generalized my experiences into more broad and encompassing princples. Those thingies are simply unacceptable. I offer these words of wisdom in their stead: "You know what I want to think of myself? As a human being. Because, I mean i don't want to be like "as Confucious say," but under the sky, under the heavens there is but one family. It just so happens that people are different." --Bruce Lee

[r00t]

You said you don't watch TV. Neither do I. The international banking elite, who control the mainstream media and thus the billions of brainwashed zombies hypnotized by it, are just inciting a race war. nbd

[Kelsar]

^^^

[Kagatob]

Of the few times I agree with Naez, this is one of them.

[Loli Pops]

A race war that the whites are losing.

[r00t]

White people, and to a real extent the "jews", have already won. The anglo-American establishment would crush any real uprising with neutron bombs

[Mesenkomaha]

A race war that the whites are losing.

Why do you hate (white) people because of the color of their skin?

[Loli Pops]

You truly know nothing Jon Snow.

[Vineyea]

Racism is dead. The rest is lag.

[Kagatob]

http://i.imgur.com/AGd80n6.jpg
Saw this not an hour ago. There were 6 kids in that car, they were parked there for at least a half hour.

Oops, left the license plate in frame. Welp.

[Vineyea]

This is my thread and I want to say this: I conjure a realm of acceptance. What you'll find here is a measure of equality that heralds no allegiance.

[Malice_Mizer]

You also totally ignore the past and the fact that my parents were in college when MLK was assassinated and African-Americans fought to get the basic right to vote in many states.

I always love how it's overwhelmingly white people that claim racism is dead. White people founded a country based on the explicit doctrine of white supremacy, a philosophy which triumphed until about 50 years ago.

You simply do not have a right to claim that racism is dead. You don't know or understand what racism even is, friend.

You'd be saying the same shit in the 1950's, championing how "separate but equal" was a fair doctrine to conduct our society by.

Statistics and indeed reality do not bear out the idea that racism is dead in America. There are still massive power and economic gaps. And just go back and look at the tweets that sprang up when Rachel Jeantel testified. If you can read the shit that white people say when they won't get caught, or think they're in good company, you'd take that shit back so quick.

But then, you'd probably come up with some other intellectually dishonest and morally bankrupt way of explaining it away. Continue living in your fantasy bubble, where you willfully ignore current events and the world around you so that you can play videogames all day and pretend that the suffering of others doesn't mean a single thing to your pretty little self.

[Vineyea]

You're simply out of the loop. The discussion is no longer about heritage, rather it's about molecular structure giving rise to cognitive experience. Don't condemn me, I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.

[Sidelle]

"You eat pieces of shit for breakfast?"

Lol sorry. Couldn't resist. One of my favorite funny lines in a movie.

[Malice_Mizer]

You're simply out of the loop. The discussion is no longer about heritage, rather it's about molecular structure giving rise to cognitive experience. Don't condemn me, I eat pieces of shit like you for breakfast.

Bad acid?

Been there.

Sorry to hear it.

[Cecily]

I finally understand what a serious issue racism is. How can I stop it?

[Malice_Mizer]

/em watches on as Kagatob extrapolates his racial understanding from voyeuristic "evidence gathering."

Were your pants around your ankles at the time during your apparently extended visited to the sex shop? Yes or no.

[Vineyea]

Your question is an "order", you lying little fuck.

[Kagatob]

You simply do not have a right to

Racist/classist

[Alawen]

Wow. Creepy anime weebo is going full Zimmerman by stalking people.

[Reapin]

I finally understand what a serious issue racism is. How can I stop it?

Have sex with a black man.

[Reapin]

http://i.imgur.com/AGd80n6.jpg
Saw this not an hour ago. There were 6 kids in that car, they were parked there for at least a half hour.

Oops, left the license plate in frame. Welp.

And why were you there for half an hour? Stocking up on butt plugs?

[Alawen]

And why were you there for half an hour? Stocking up on butt plugs?

They carry the pillows he refers to as his girlfriends.

[Daldolma]

Wow. Creepy anime weebo is going full Zimmerman by stalking people.

i don't know if i'd call that full zimmerman

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

everyone knows the Jews want whites to fight with blacks and black to fight whites. But what few people know, it is the Mexicans who secretly control the Jews. Why do you think they are called "Jews"? That is the word for "puppet" in Mexican.

[Kagatob]

And why were you there for half an hour? Stocking up on butt plugs?
Girlfriend wanted to find a glass dong, took us half an hour to realize everything they have at VIP is gel/plastic.
They carry the pillows he refers to as his girlfriends.

They don't carry dakimakura and for the umpteenth time, I don't even own one.

[Malice_Mizer]

http://roebuckclasses.com/201/slavery/whippingpic.jpg

[Malice_Mizer]

DJANGO ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

God hates you, btw

[Malice_Mizer]

which God?

http://truereligiondebate.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/kali.jpg

[Hasbinbad]

which God?
http://i.imgur.com/KYrcmbE.jpg

[Vineyea]

lol

[Armada]

A lot that I see and know, is fight racism with racism. How can you say you oppose racism by practicing racism? I judge an individual on their own merits, not what color, religion, or what opinions they hold. Hypocrites are those who battle racism with racism. If you truly want to abolish something, you can't in turn advocate it yourselves. People lumping everyone into the same pool is what the problem is in the first place. No matter what color you are, if you hate any other color, you are a racist. A racist is a racist no matter what color they are and what color they choose to hate.
It is NOT ok for any to judge another immediately based upon the shade of their skin. The problem lies in that bitter racism to whites that are not of the generations that were involved in any sort of this, have made them feel persecuted as well. Well what makes you racist towards whites? You see the never ending cycle? You can not preach doctrine while participating in what you condemn, in any form.

Everyone needs to open their eyes, but hate begets hate. If you spout hate for any other race, no matter your experiences, you have no room to talk and are a fucking hypocrite that has lost all sight.

[Hasbinbad]

Systemic racism is white people believing that white people do not presently play a part in systematic racism.

[Hasbinbad]

systemic .. shut up

[Vineyea]

Either some of my posts are getting deleted or I've contributed links to threads with the accuracy of buck-shot in a tornado.

Michael Sandel tries to make a discussion about race and national policy be something other than a degenerate exercise in vanity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUhReMT5uqA

[Armada]

Every race plays a part in racism. No one is innocent.....the problem lies in that we all feel personally persecuted based on our race. It's hard not to hate those that hate you, but what does return racism accomplish? You can not fight racism with more racism. No one race is innocent, no matter how we view ourselves as the victims. It's all perception based upon our own experiences, and we have ALL encountered hate based on our color.

Perception of our own knowledge and experiences. Are you one that stops the loop of thinking, or are you one that just throws that hatred right back? There is only one way to stop this violent cycle, and it's to be the bigger man and set the example. If you don't, you just fuel it further.

[Vineyea]

And to anyone for whom this may be relevant, I'd just like to add you shouldn't become discouraged when making your stand seems to cause more problems than it's worth. There have been numerous times in p99, both guild and parties, where I've been accused of overreacting to light hearted or joking racism... or even the idiosyncratic use of words whose connotation is universally negative.

Stamp it out where you can and if your company doesn't respect you enough or care about having you around enough for them to change the way they speak then perhaps you have something better to do.

[Hasbinbad]

"every race plays its part"

yeah except oppression doesn't go both ways

[Kagatob]

Systemic racism is white people believing that white people do not presently play a part in systematic racism.

"every race plays its part"

yeah except oppression doesn't go both ways

Every time you post the KKK kills another innocent ******boy.

[Tasslehofp99]

Racism is fake, shits just promoted by the government to keep people divided. Check out the shit they teach kids in school nowadays grades 1-12 everyday all day its all about how bad whitey is.

[Kagatob]

Racism is fake, shits just promoted by the government to keep people divided. Check out the shit they teach kids in school nowadays grades 1-12 everyday all day its all about how bad whitey is.

That's because without a doubt, whitey is an american invention. South Africa was an anomaly.

[Vineyea]

Racism is just as real as any other social contrivance you want to name. Some of the people here are going to make it a point to be antagonists out of spite and mean spirit. In America it's a right of the people to have their speech uncensored and to that regard you can expect that if there's a volition to be the bearer of preconceived notions, disagreement, and malice one person or another is going to stand up and fill that role.

Your internet alias has more to say about you than does the color of one's skin to say about what they are.

[Kagatob]

Racism is just as real as any other social contrivance you want to name. Some of the people here are going to make it a point to be antagonists out of spite and mean spirit. In America it's a right of the people to have their speech uncensored and to that regard you can expect that if there's a volition to be the bearer of preconceived notions, disagreement, and malice one person or another is going to stand up and fill that role.

Your internet alias has more to say about you than does the color of one's skin to say about what they are.

If this were true the word "******" wouldn't be strictly associated with "black" people in the year 2013.

I know more white ******s than ******s of all other races combined and it has nothing to do with their taste in music.

[Malice_Mizer]

This thread is beyond hope.

How have you all gotten this far in life with such simplistic attitudes about the world around you? Good Christ, you act like the world came into existence when you were born, and that everything that came before us is just a figment that "mean people" keep alive because it benefits them somehow.

It is baked into the cake of the American experiment. No slate is wiped clean, as you all suppose for some reason. History does not go away, and collective memories run deep and painful.

You're all too proud and too ignorant to have an honest discussion about this.

[Vineyea]

That's irrelevant to the ontology of the judgment. Racism isn't an empirical fact, it's an agreement between peoples. Much like the English language is a social institution on a very fundamental level. We've got this background commonality that's essentially the product of agreement and even though there's no universal law suggesting English ought to be the spoken language of any and all rational beings it has a very real existence in our everyday lives.

[Rhuma7]

Racism will never be obsolete. The words white/black/african-america/hispanic in itself is racism.

African american is the most racist ignorant description of a person I've seen predominantly used in american culture. Calling a black dude an african american is racist, more than likely he ISNT from africa and if that was a legit term for someone from africa a white person could be an african american and thats just not how it works.

The black ethnicity is much much better off than before the civil rights movement. Just because we have a "black" president doesn't mean racism is dead and I am of the firm belief racism will never be dead. The way we have handled the race subject in itself is securing its future in american society.

Until we do not see skin color as a race, racism will never truly die.

This post was filled with racism, look at all those ignorant racist terms!

[myriverse]

It's not racist to acknowledge the differences. It's just racist to think one is better than another.

[Malice_Mizer]

That's irrelevant to the ontology of the judgment. Racism isn't an empirical fact, it's an agreement between peoples. Much like the English language is a social institution on a very fundamental level. We've got this background commonality that's essentially the product of agreement and even though there's no universal law suggesting English ought to be the spoken language of any and all rational beings it has a very real existence in our everyday lives.

http://westfieldcomics.com/wow/art/backlist/large/sep052662.jpg

[Rhuma7]

It's not racist to acknowledge the differences. It's just racist to think one is better than another.

There isn't suppose to be any differences lol

You're reply is exactly what I was talking about, how the general consensus of america is there is a race difference which = racism.

[Malice_Mizer]

There isn't suppose to be any differences lol

You're reply is exactly what I was talking about, how the general consensus of america is there is a race difference which = racism.

You're putting the cart way ahead of the horse, friend.

First of all, racism in America is the expression of a racial supremacist ideology through power and force. In this way, only white people (being the dominant group for multiple centuries) can actually be racist. You're claiming that everybody is prejudiced and holds unknown bias deep in their hearts. That's not racism. A "black person" being distrustful of white people because they've been marginalized their entire lives and their parents were victims of systematic and institutional racial violence by the police during the Civil Rights era is not "racism." It's just not. We're all participants and victims of a racist social order. Individuals are not "racist." We all contribute to it in our own ways.

That being said, the way a society progresses is not to jump from one generation of being attacked by the police for wanting the right to vote into the next where nobody recognizes or sees skin color. That's naive and deluding yourself if you actually believe anybody can actively not see skin color. It is intimately tied into our socialization and how we categorize our world and understanding of it, especially as Americans. Our entire national history is a story of race and struggle, almost entirely.

We can't simply go from centuries of enforced white supremacy to saying, "Oh, well shit, sorry about that guys! Let's just not see race anymore because that's easier for us to repent for the past and not own up to the horrors this country was built upon."

To pretend skin color doesn't exist is an egregious crime because it denies people the ability to reconcile the past, come to terms with our collective history, and move onward from it. We're not there yet, and to jump into color-blindness would do everyone, especially the victims of racial injustice, a grave disservice.

[Rhuma7]

You're putting the cart way ahead of the horse, friend.

First of all, racism in America is the expression of a racial supremacist ideology through power and force. In this way, only white people (being the dominant group for multiple centuries) can actually be racist. You're claiming that everybody is prejudiced and holds unknown bias deep in their hearts. That's not racism. A "black person" being distrustful of white people because they've been marginalized their entire lives and their parents were victims of systematic and institutional racial violence by the police during the Civil Rights era is not "racism." It's just not. We're all participants and victims of a racist social order. Individuals are not "racist." We all contribute to it in our own ways.

That being said, the way a society progresses is not to jump from one generation of being attacked by the police for wanting the right to vote into the next where nobody recognizes or sees skin color. That's naive and deluding yourself if you actually believe anybody can actively not see skin color. It is intimately tied into our socialization and how we categorize our world and understanding of it, especially as Americans. Our entire national history is a story of race and struggle, almost entirely.

We can't simply go from centuries of enforced white supremacy to saying, "Oh, well shit, sorry about that guys! Let's just not see race anymore because that's easier for us to repent for the past and not own up to the horrors this country was built upon."

To pretend skin color doesn't exist is an egregious crime because it denies people the ability to reconcile the past, come to terms with our collective history, and move onward from it. We're not there yet, and to jump into color-blindness would do everyone, especially the victims of racial injustice, a grave disservice.


Racism will never be obsolete. The words white/black/african-america/hispanic in itself is racism.

Did you even read the post or just make wild assumptions? My post wasn't a "if we do this and that there wont be any racism" I'm telling you that the way we have learned to "categorize" skin color is inherently racist and saying only negative racism is racism is silly.

Whats the difference between saying "That ****** is smart!" and "That african american is smart!" Their both a name for a race, which is redundant, when the same can be said as "That guy/woman is smart!" with the exception one is clearly "racist" as you would put but as a whole, their racist on the fact that the color of his skin was brought to a point and somehow had any relation to the compliment.

[Ahldagor]

welcome to the effects of specificity. gotta love those post-Socratic thinkers

[Malice_Mizer]

Did you even read the post or just make wild assumptions? My post wasn't a "if we do this and that there wont be any racism" I'm telling you that the way we have learned to "categorize" skin color is inherently racist and saying only negative racism is racism is silly.

Whats the difference between saying "That ****** is smart!" and "That african american is smart!" Their both a name for a race, which is redundant, when the same can be said as "That guy/woman is smart!" with the exception one is clearly "racist" as you would put but as a whole, their racist on the fact that the color of his skin was brought to a point and somehow had any relation to the compliment.

How is that even racism? It's not. It's a stupid thing to say, and not coming from the right place ultimately, but it's simply not racist. If you're saying that there is no substantial difference between the word "******" and "African-American," I'd say you're really out of touch with reality. "African-American" is an identity to which many black people in America subscribe. "******" is a historical racial slur used by white people for centuries with a shit-ton of baggage, all of which you apparently don't understand.

"There isn't suppose to be any differences lol

You're reply is exactly what I was talking about, how the general consensus of america is there is a race difference which = racism."

I don't think you understand the debate going on in the real world about race in America. We all have different histories. We all participate in the American story in a vastly different way. Our cultures have developed differently because we've lived almost entirely separate lives (enforced by the white establishment) for centuries. Our historical and cultural reference points are different. Our relationship to the government and authority is very, very different. The way we understand our place in the world is also very different. To say that there are no differences is another lie you're telling yourself to diffuse a heated topic. I think I understand your intention and ultimately believe you're coming at this from the right place. I used to think like you, too, and idealistically I do. But there is a path to get there, and it's not something we can all just jump into, pretending that skin color doesn't affect the way we understand society and our place in it. That takes generations to overcome, not just high-theory about what's technically right.

[Ahldagor]

generations to overcome is the key there ^^^
not going away over night, and at the same time we have to continue the work

[Rhuma7]

HI think I understand your intention and ultimately believe you're coming at this from the right place. I used to think like you, too, and idealistically I do. But there is a path to get there, and it's not something we can all just jump into, pretending that skin color doesn't affect the way we understand society and our place in it. That takes generations to overcome, not just high-theory about what's technically right.

Im glad you can see through the post to the real thought behind it. It is quite hard to express this in words while dreadlands crashed and everyone got summoned to KC and me going wtf!?

As long as people can look at a dark skinned person and give him a title of race other than human, racism will exist, good or bad. I believe this was a point in MLK Jr's speech IIRC.

[Kagatob]

As long as people can look at a dark skinned person and give him a title of race other than human, racism will exist, good or bad. I believe this was a point in MLK Jr's speech IIRC.

It goes the other direction as well. If you think adopting a 'blame whitey' mentality is some form of progress you're living in a comic book. Blaming the son for the sins of the (Great grand) father is not progress no matter which way you look at it.
Switching from trying to raise one group to trying to put down the group near the top is not progress either, the women's rights movement proved that when it changed it's direction and nearly all momentum it had ceased.

The reason we can't "all just get along" isn't because some white people are descended from people who used to own black people, it isn't because some black people are descended from people who were once 'property'. The reason we can't get along is because groups on all sides hold grudges.

[Vineyea]

It's not racist to acknowledge the differences. It's just racist to think one is better than another.

Yeah, and really it should be the prerogative of everybody to get their ideas and opinions in tune with the larger historical context. We should be, as people in a society, aware of the significance of our institutions-- what they do, why they're there and we should be able to unify this with what we know about other things. There shouldn't be a conflict in my understanding of biology and my relation to social mores simply because the later are traditional de facto statements.

Isaac Newton is perhaps the most famous philosopher and physicist next to Einstein. During the enlightenment era, newton penned a work that radically changed how people come to understand their relation to the cosmos. He brought into the capacities of the limited human mind three laws that describe everything in the world we see. He upset an old order, he bequeathed a tool that still works just fine today. People do not need other reasons for why the world behaves as it does because of this foundation that after which we witnessed the explosion of knowledge and power we're still trying to fully integrate with today.

So, I guess I would say there's something a little intellectually dishonest about people who hold opinions based on the power of willful ignorance. I'm not saying people can't be dishonest, I'm not saying people can't voice the results. I'm saying there are domains of knowledge we can't ignore.

It's essential to unify what we know about the world with our society, institutions, and even ourselves. That's something people do out of habitual practice anyway, so I guess it's just a matter of time until we can feel at home in the world.

[Malice_Mizer]

Black representatives sitting in Congress were beaten by police officers for marching for their rights and to end the century of Jim Crow that emerged after slavery.

I'm confused how you always turn this into an exclusively "slavery" conversation. That's part of the root, but it's not the whole story. Not even close. If white America had atoned for their sins after slavery, then we'd be on a totally different course of history today. But they didn't. They were proud and in slavery's stead erected a social and economic order that was a different form of slavery that existed as a matter of law until 50 years ago.

When there are still people that, as young adults, experienced the horrors of the Civil Rights era and the face that white America showed them at the time, you cannot claim that there's just this "grudge" that they have that they need to get over. That's plainly wrong, and a self-serving attitude to take.

I'm not saying that you personally have done anything "bad" to a "black person". That's not for me to say, because I know very little about you. But we're still the effective inheritors of a society and government that in the recent past, extending into the distant past, committed horrible crimes against humanity, for which we've had to pay very, very little. We threw them a bill or two in the 60's, some token references, some lip-service, and have largely let the issue fester and remain neglected.

Statistically speaking, institutional racism is still alive and well in America. There is absolutely no denying that. Individual discretion permeates every level of authority, and it's often influenced by unseen bias and socialized fear and/or malice towards certain groups of people.

[Malice_Mizer]

Flounder.

[Kagatob]

I'm not saying that you personally have done anything "bad" to a "black person". That's not for me to say, because I know very little about you. But we're still the effective inheritors of a society and government that in the recent past, extending into the distant past, committed horrible crimes against humanity, for which we've had to pay very, very little. We threw them a bill or two in the 60's, some token references, some lip-service, and have largely let the issue fester and remain neglected.

The idea of having to pay for the actions of previous generations is as outdated as the extinct institutions you are so obsessed over. You just don't seem to understand that holding onto both grudges and guilt moves people and society as a whole backwards on all of these issues.

[Vineyea]

The idea of having to pay for the actions of previous generations is as outdated as the extinct institutions you are so obsessed over. You just don't seem to understand that holding onto both grudges and guilt moves people and society as a whole backwards on all of these issues.

I had to lol at this.

[Malice_Mizer]

The idea of having to pay for the actions of previous generations is as outdated as the extinct institutions you are so obsessed over. You just don't seem to understand that holding onto both grudges and guilt moves people and society as a whole backwards on all of these issues.

Just like future generations won't have to pay for what we're currently doing to the planet.

Just like we're not currently paying for the bills of previous generations, and generations ahead of us the same.

Just like we don't pay for every war we've ever fought or struggle we've endured in the form of memorial and cultural memory. I never experienced the Great Depression-- but do you think that its vestiges and legacy and lasting impression isn't there for everyone to see?

What about the Germans, who built the memorial to the murdered Jews of Europe in 1999? Don't you think it'd be easier for them to just ignore what happened during WW2 during previous generations and just move on already? Aren't they just making too big of a deal of the Holocaust, beating a dead horse, and everyone just needs to get over it because it's not like the Holocaust affected every aspect of our international order or cultural understanding of the world, history, and the depth of humanity, right?

Which "institutions" are "extinct" exactly? The police forces that empirically target and harass citizens of color at disproportionate rates for drug crimes, despite every bit of evidence leading to the idea that illegal drug transactions are a static occurrence across class and racial lines?

"Blacks continue to be faced with punishing unfairness and inequalities. Soaring rates of unemployment, discriminatory drug laws, disproportionate prison sentences, unequal access to health care and healthy food, unfair stop-and-frisk policies and “accidental” shootings of unarmed black men by the police — these and more are treated with indifference or contempt. We’re told to stop complaining, to get over it. No one cares. But that’s just the point of living in the United States. Somebody is supposed to care. Our elected officials, beginning with the president, are charged with the responsibility of listening to the needs, the grievances, the voices of the people — including people of color."

"Memory is life." Are you just painfully naive or trolling my ass?

[myriverse]

There isn't suppose to be any differences lol

You're reply is exactly what I was talking about, how the general consensus of america is there is a race difference which = racism.
Bullshit! There has to be differences, and they are lovely! To deny there are differences is racist.

[Kagatob]

Just like future generations won't have to pay for what we're currently doing to the planet.

Just like we're not currently paying for the bills of previous generations, and generations ahead of us the same.

Now you're linking environmentalism to racism? You broke your stretch armstrong when you were a kid didn't you?

Just like we don't pay for every war we've ever fought or struggle we've endured in the form of memorial and cultural memory. I never experienced the Great Depression-- but do you think that its vestiges and legacy and lasting impression isn't there for everyone to see?
Outside of lines of text in a history book, it's not. Unless you are getting a masters in economics, after high school you won't hear a single word about the depression outside some barely founded comparisons to it when the GoP president tosses us into a recession. The same level of comparisons that compare 9/11 or the Boston Marathon Bombing to Pearl Harbor. Or you know, comparing environmental damage to racism.
What about the Germans, who built the memorial to the murdered Jews of Europe in 1999? Don't you think it'd be easier for them to just ignore what happened during WW2 during previous generations and just move on already? Aren't they just making too big of a deal of the Holocaust, beating a dead horse, and everyone just needs to get over it because it's not like the Holocaust affected every aspect of our international order or cultural understanding of the world, history, and the depth of humanity, right?
A memorial was built. It's a memorial not a payment, let's try to stay on topic here. Germany paid their dues after WWII thanks to the Soviet Union. Or did you forget that they had their own 45 years of suffering via the Berlin Wall/Iron Curtain?
Does it excuse the Holocaust? Of course not, but both sides realize that making each other suffer further would be a barbaric exercise with no positive end outcomes. Then again we're talking about Europe and not Amurika so the things they do out there actually make sense some of the time.

Which "institutions" are "extinct" exactly? The police forces that empirically target and harass citizens of color at disproportionate rates for drug crimes, despite every bit of evidence leading to the idea that illegal drug transactions are a static occurrence across class and racial lines?
Cops are pigs, tell me something I don't know. You however make the jump from blaming all white people for the actions of a select corrupt group. (The same way you blame the citizens for bullshit laws the government that I didn't vote for put into place).
It's interesting you concentrate on the drug war (which is close to seeing it's last days) and not any other forms of crime which statistically the small population of black people perform a gigantic percentage of those crimes, particularly against other black people. But we'll just ignore these facts because they detract from blaming whitey.

"Blacks continue to be faced with punishing unfairness and inequalities. Soaring rates of unemployment, discriminatory drug laws, disproportionate prison sentences, unequal access to health care and healthy food, unfair stop-and-frisk policies and “accidental” shootings of unarmed black men by the police — these and more are treated with indifference or contempt. We’re told to stop complaining, to get over it. No one cares. But that’s just the point of living in the United States. Somebody is supposed to care. Our elected officials, beginning with the president, are charged with the responsibility of listening to the needs, the grievances, the voices of the people — including people of color."
You're kind of going in 6 different directions here, 3 of which I've addressed above and the others which aren't even on topic.
"disproportionate prison sentences, unequal access to health care and healthy food" are classist issues not racist issues. Stop trying to blame everything on race, you are the racist one in that discussion every time.
"Memory is life." Are you just painfully naive or trolling my ass?
Learn the difference between a memorial and a grudge and we can have a discussion without hate mongering. All you know how to do is blame blame blame. Why not come up with an actual solution for once if your vision is so much clearer than everyone else's?

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

^i like you.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

http://chriszaharia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Borat_Great_Success.jpg

[Malice_Mizer]

Now you're linking environmentalism to racism? You broke your stretch armstrong when you were a kid didn't you?


... Or you know, comparing environmental damage to racism.



I want to bring to your attention that social issues intersect. The intersectionality of issues demonstrates critical thought by recognizing patterns of behavior and societal themes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_racism

Kind of like the way all of the trash from Manhattan gets dumped in front of Bronx and Queens neighborhoods for them to deal with. Or the way run-off from factories gets disproportionately dumped into poor, black areas because they have the least political representation and thus the smallest chance of raising a stink about major environmental hazards to their health. These are facts. Institutional racism and environmental concerns intersect, just as capitalism and environmentalism intersect. Similarly, class and race intersect. Class and race are intimately tied to each other, and in America, race more often than not determines the rigidity of your class and opportunities of social mobility. Again, it's not a "stretch" to say that environmentalism and feminism and racism and anti-capitalism all come together in certain ways. If they came from society and civilization and the way humans organize themselves, they have more in common than you give them credit for and have a common root.

All rage-induced flames between us aside, the world is a complex place. I don't consider anything in a vacuum, and try my hardest to check myself and be receptive to criticism if I do. I am 100% able to admit when I am wrong and will gladly amend my beliefs when I am because I place a greater value on truth and justice than being right in an argument when all cards are on the table. Do you think I find it fun and enjoyable to recognize that my history and rolemodels as a white man in America are totally fucked and riddled with horrific displays of callousness and crimes against humanity? Do you think I find it fun to disassociate myself with the ancestors on my father's side who came here in the 1600's and owned slaves? I do not find pleasure in breaking down things I should normally be proud of, but I am not proud. Other white people can be proud of their history-- I'm obviously fine with that. But we need to come together and recognize that we also have a fucked up side of history in this country that, by and large, has remained an open wound for many people. The way to pass from grief to acceptance is not to forget or pretend nothing happened. You may not have pain from your historical reference points in this country, but many people in this country do, and we need to validate that as a truth, as well.

I am not a "blame whitey" kind of guy, honestly. I often get angry at the excessive number of white people who deny the existence of racism or downplay the very real scars of our collective history. That's about it, though. I think white people can be allies, obviously. I don't think every white person in America needs to donate their paycheck to a black family for reparations or bow and grovel or something.

How do you differentiate between "grudge" and "memory"..? Isn't that kind of subjective, based entirely on which side you're viewing it from?

I'm very interest to know how you personally feel about:

1. American history as a whole, and
2. White peoples' historical place concerning blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans

[Rhuma7]

According to colonial records, the first slave owner in the United States was a black man.

Prior to 1655 there were no legal slaves in the colonies, only indentured servants. All masters were required to free their servants after their time was up. Seven years was the limit that an indentured servant could be held. Upon their release they were granted 50 acres of land. This included any Negro purchased from slave traders. Negros were also granted 50 acres upon their release.

Anthony Johnson was a Negro from modern-day Angola. He was brought to the US to work on a tobacco farm in 1619. In 1622 he was almost killed when Powhatan Indians attacked the farm. 52 out of 57 people on the farm perished in the attack. He married a female black servant while working on the farm.

When Anthony was released he was legally recognized as a “free Negro” and ran a successful farm. In 1651 he held 250 acres and five black indentured servants. In 1654, it was time for Anthony to release John Casor, a black indentured servant. Instead Anthony told Casor he was extending his time. Casor left and became employed by the free white man Robert Parker.

Anthony Johnson sued Robert Parker in the Northampton Court in 1654. In 1655, the court ruled that Anthony Johnson could hold John Casor indefinitely. The court gave judicial sanction for blacks to own slave of their own race. Thus Casor became the first permanent slave and Johnson the first slave owner.

Whites still could not legally hold a black servant as an indefinite slave until 1670. In that year, the colonial assembly passed legislation permitting free whites, blacks, and Indians the right to own blacks as slaves.

By 1699, the number of free blacks prompted fears of a “Negro insurrection.” Virginia Colonial ordered the repatriation of freed blacks back to Africa. Many blacks sold themselves to white masters so they would not have to go to Africa. This was the first effort to gently repatriate free blacks back to Africa. The modern nations of Sierra Leone and Liberia both originated as colonies of repatriated former black slaves.

However, black slave owners continued to thrive in the United States.

By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone.

[mtb tripper]

I'm not quite sure what the story is behind this sudden outrage and attention to racial and ethnic heritage on the forums. Honestly, I havn't watched T.V. for the past three months and I'm in a void of understanding concerning this latest thread of inquiry... It should be obvious to any educated person that the myth of racism is somehow, far be it from me why the fuck this is, striking a chord and becoming a subject of "debate".

There's nothing to see here. There's no real debate. I can argue about the fundamental nature of the space-time you exist in. The very environment you call home, being subject to rules derived from a guess, who's antecedent structure is a hypothetical law. I'm tired of this shit. Shut the fuck up already...

Do you want my prediction? It's this: the old racist fucks are going to die. Their children? Their children are going to be an ignorant minority. Eventually what? Eventually people in the future will mock our inquiry, not because the intellectual capacities to understand it are minimal, but because the 'achilles heel' refutation is simply intrinsic to any coherent understanding of an adequately modeled world.

And speaking of models, it's good for people to be educated in the historical context of the events we witness. I wasn't around in the 60's. I know there are people alive today who have seen, witnessed, experienced, and been poisoned by the racial animosity that makes up a good portion of this nation's history... To this end I suggest a book I wasn't able to finish when I first enrolled in college (it was a difficult read), and that is "waiting till the midnight hour: a narrative history of the black power movement in America".

Engaging in a debate with a comprehensive view is the best thing we can do. Having read that book or not, I understand that the differences between ethnicities is culture and skin color. There isn't too much more than that--- I defy anyone who would like to suggest otherwise.

...I don't mean to attack anybody here. There's no one person I'm aiming at. It isn't that I carry a grudge against this post or that. Instead the problem seems to be that I have generalized my experiences into more broad and encompassing princples. Those thingies are simply unacceptable. I offer these words of wisdom in their stead: "You know what I want to think of myself? As a human being. Because, I mean i don't want to be like "as Confucious say," but under the sky, under the heavens there is but one family. It just so happens that people are different." --Bruce Lee

The old fucks you speak of that are going to die, are veterans and heroes to this nation, and are the only true and respectable beings left on this earth

[Malice_Mizer]

Said this before, will say it again:

It is not all about slavery. Slavery is not the sole grievance where, if you prove multilateral culpability, the grievance is nullified. It's also not just about black Americans' history. It's about how white Americans interact(ed) with non-white people, and how they used the political and economic power they wield(ed) over others for centuries.

[Rhuma7]

Said this before, will say it again:

It is not all about slavery. Slavery is not the sole grievance where, if you prove multilateral culpability, the grievance is nullified. It's also not just about black Americans' history. It's about how white Americans interact(ed) with non-white people, and how they used the political and economic power they wield(ed) over others for centuries.

It's also about how black families werent breaking a sweat gobbling up slaves like they were apples at a market. Which is quite interesting regardless of your current agenda in this thread.

[Sidelle]

I want to bring to your attention that social issues intersect. The intersectionality of issues demonstrates critical thought by recognizing patterns of behavior and societal themes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_racism

Kind of like the way all of the trash from Manhattan gets dumped in front of Bronx and Queens neighborhoods for them to deal with. Or the way run-off from factories gets disproportionately dumped into poor, black areas because they have the least political representation and thus the smallest chance of raising a stink about major environmental hazards to their health. These are facts. Institutional racism and environmental concerns intersect, just as capitalism and environmentalism intersect. Similarly, class and race intersect. Class and race are intimately tied to each other, and in America, race more often than not determines the rigidity of your class and opportunities of social mobility. Again, it's not a "stretch" to say that environmentalism and feminism and racism and anti-capitalism all come together in certain ways. If they came from society and civilization and the way humans organize themselves, they have more in common than you give them credit for and have a common root.

All rage-induced flames between us aside, the world is a complex place. I don't consider anything in a vacuum, and try my hardest to check myself and be receptive to criticism if I do. I am 100% able to admit when I am wrong and will gladly amend my beliefs when I am because I place a greater value on truth and justice than being right in an argument when all cards are on the table. Do you think I find it fun and enjoyable to recognize that my history and rolemodels as a white man in America are totally fucked and riddled with horrific displays of callousness and crimes against humanity? Do you think I find it fun to disassociate myself with the ancestors on my father's side who came here in the 1600's and owned slaves? I do not find pleasure in breaking down things I should normally be proud of, but I am not proud. Other white people can be proud of their history-- I'm obviously fine with that. But we need to come together and recognize that we also have a fucked up side of history in this country that, by and large, has remained an open wound for many people. The way to pass from grief to acceptance is not to forget or pretend nothing happened. You may not have pain from your historical reference points in this country, but many people in this country do, and we need to validate that as a truth, as well.

I am not a "blame whitey" kind of guy, honestly. I often get angry at the excessive number of white people who deny the existence of racism or downplay the very real scars of our collective history. That's about it, though. I think white people can be allies, obviously. I don't think every white person in America needs to donate their paycheck to a black family for reparations or bow and grovel or something.

How do you differentiate between "grudge" and "memory"..? Isn't that kind of subjective, based entirely on which side you're viewing it from?

I'm very interest to know how you personally feel about:

1. American history as a whole, and
2. White peoples' historical place concerning blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans

This is an intelligent, well-written post. I might not agree with everything you say say but it makes me think and consider other viewpoints which is always a good thing no matter who you are. I am nothing if not open-minded. :)

[Vineyea]

The old fucks you speak of that are going to die, are veterans and heroes to this nation, and are the only true and respectable beings left on this earth

I've seen the rows of white crosses too. I have respect for the heroes and their sacrafices; their suffering, story, legacy. When I see those fields going by and the crosses move from solid rows to solid masses like the rows of seats in a movie theatre I stop trying to make a statement for about what each one of those persons died. You can't do it justice, and it isn't your place to define their lives, just as it isn't their place to define mine. They made a sacrifice, not a down payment.

[Raavak]

The international banking elite, who control the mainstream media and thus the billions of brainwashed zombies hypnotized by it, are just inciting a race war.Racism is just another toy the elite use to keep us pre-occupied and hence, in their control.

[Malice_Mizer]

It's also about how black families werent breaking a sweat gobbling up slaves like they were apples at a market. Which is quite interesting regardless of your current agenda in this thread.

Ok. Goodness, where to begin.

First of all, the first slave-holder in the American colonies was indeed a freed African slave himself. Upon his death, his land and property were seized by Virginia because they claimed he was an illegal alien and therefore had no rights.

The insidious fact that you seem to be overlooking in this entire thing is that black people still owned black slaves. It didn't go the other way around, where black people owned white slaves or something. Black people who were free, wanted to engage in agriculture (what else could they honestly do if they wanted to generate an inheritance and property), and had the capital to make an investment involved themselves in the production norms as their surroundings dictated. It was not a relationship where, "You are racially inferior to me because of the color of your skin, and therefore are destined by God's will to toil and be subservient to me, the superior white man," which was the basis and philosophy of the white supremacist social order that erected and defended the institution of slavery up until the Civil War. They did not consider black people to be human beings, but rather a piece of amoral property.

In the year 1830, 13% of black Americans were free. I don't have to tell you where the other 87% were. Of the total number of slaves at that time (~2M), about .6% of them were owned by black people. Further, of the free black Americans who did own slaves, 42% of them owned a single slave.

Interesting bit of history, but I'm unsure of the point you're even trying to make. Is your point that, because black people also held slaves, albeit at a ridiculously lower frequency and quantity, that it somehow absolves the history of slavery as a specifically white supremacist institution in this country?

"It's also about how black families werent breaking a sweat gobbling up slaves like they were apples at a market."

What does this mean, exactly..? "Black families?" As though slave ownership was some sort of norm for the black community? As though freedom in general was anywhere near a norm for the black community for hundreds of years? Nearly 90% of all black people on this continent were enslaved at any given point in our history prior to 1863, and the others certainly weren't all laying around, systematically launching the Triangle Trade and establishing hereditary lines of royalty whose wealth and prestige are still visible today.

[Malice_Mizer]

There are also conflicting historical records concerning the first "real slave" in the American colonies.

There's also John Punch, who in 1640 tried to escape indentured servitude and was sentenced to life as an indentured servant (slave) in Virginia. According to genealogists, Barack Obama is a descendant of this man by his mother's side.

[Vineyea]

There does seem to be a common thread in America of not taking responsibility for what an agent or agency is clearly liable for. Think about abortion. Over the course of human history there has been made time and again this stunning discovery that sex leads to babies. Had sex? Baby on the way? There would seem to me to be an unravelling of a very obvious and forseable future that if not interfered with would lead to the birth of a new human being. When you do something about it and abort the baby you're stepping in and relieveing a measure of responsibility.

Similarly, with the understanding of how national policy affects markets and people. I guess the big debate now is over immigrant labour-- Our official stance governs the possibilities and probabilities of certain kinds of life and communities within the influence of that stance. You have to wonder to what extent we are responsible for the forseable future at the national level, nevermind global atm.

[Vaildez]

There are also conflicting historical records concerning the first "real slave" in the American colonies.

There's also John Punch, who in 1640 tried to escape indentured servitude and was sentenced to life as an indentured servant (slave) in Virginia. According to genealogists, Barack Obama is a descendant of this man by his mother's side.

I am a descendant of Susan B Anthony. Give me a fucking medal!

[Nirgon]

The multi ethnic caucasians are eliminating us

One by what could have been one of us when we were younger

[mtb tripper]

pingu

[Kagatob]

multi ethnic caucasians

Term always makes me lol. Not because of it's existence but because of the few times it's used it's always used to legitimize being racist under the guise of "hating whitey".

[Rhuma7]

What does this mean, exactly..? "Black families?" As though slave ownership was some sort of norm for the black community? As though freedom in general was anywhere near a norm for the black community for hundreds of years? Nearly 90% of all black people on this continent were enslaved at any given point in our history prior to 1863, and the others certainly weren't all laying around, systematically launching the Triangle Trade and establishing hereditary lines of royalty whose wealth and prestige are still visible today.

Let me ask you... Who is supposed to be liable for the global slavery of our brothers? Who in this day and age should feel responsible for what happened and the way things were? Am I to feel guilty or in some way in debt to these families descendant from slaves? When in reality there might be a huge margin of blacks in america that were actually descendants of slavers of blacks!

When we talk racism, you have to go back to slavery, it is basically the root of the pain and oppression these people feel.

I am not racist I will say that bluntly, I've smoked more pot with blacks than white people and never did I feel like I should be sorry for anything my possible ancestors did.

So, lets have some real talk, what the fuck does the black community expect from people? Or is it only the government and thus tax payers? Affirmative action x2? Are there any laws still affecting blacks?

From my understanding this whole uprising lately over the race card was due to the zimmerman trial and quite frankly, I saw more blatant racism from trayvons family than anything.

[Malice_Mizer]

Let me ask you... Who is supposed to be liable for the global slavery of our brothers? Who in this day and age should feel responsible for what happened and the way things were? Am I to feel guilty or in some way in debt to these families descendant from slaves? When in reality there might be a huge margin of blacks in america that were actually descendants of slavers of blacks!

When we talk racism, you have to go back to slavery, it is basically the root of the pain and oppression these people feel.

I am not racist I will say that bluntly, I've smoked more pot with blacks than white people and never did I feel like I should be sorry for anything my possible ancestors did.

So, lets have some real talk, what the fuck does the black community expect from people? Or is it only the government and thus tax payers? Affirmative action x2? Are there any laws still affecting blacks?

From my understanding this whole uprising lately over the race card was due to the zimmerman trial and quite frankly, I saw more blatant racism from trayvons family than anything.

/puke

[brandonkr]

My family didn't even immigrate to America until the 1920's from Sweden, so fuck all your white hating racist bullshit. You have to be one hell of an incompetent fuck-up to blame all your problems on race, particularly with affirmative action and the never-ending list of black only scholarships.

Quit riding your ancestors coattails like you've actually done anything for your people and your community. I'm surprised you even play EQ as it was designed by whites and marketed by jews, all working for a Japanese company. Embrace the multiculturalism that makes America awesome or go the fuck back to Africa, simple as that.

[moklianne]

When we talk racism, you have to go back to slavery, it is basically the root of the pain and oppression these people feel.



Or if you want another example, you can look at what we did to the Native Americans and continue to do to this day.

[Malice_Mizer]

My family didn't even immigrate to America until the 1920's from Sweden, so fuck all your white hating racist bullshit. You have to be one hell of an incompetent fuck-up to blame all your problems on race, particularly with affirmative action and the never-ending list of black only scholarships.

Quit riding your ancestors coattails like you've actually done anything for your people and your community. I'm surprised you even play EQ as it was designed by whites and marketed by jews, all working for a Japanese company. Embrace the multiculturalism that makes America awesome or go the fuck back to Africa, simple as that.

You've obviously read zero of the posts in this thread. If what you've gathered is that anybody who criticizes American history is engaging in "white hating racist bullshit," then you're just a dim-witted, happy idiot. That's all there is to it, honestly. People can't critically think and challenge the world around them? That somehow angers you because you're too proud to sit down, break down some of the walls society has erected for you about what's right and what's wrong and get real about some shit? Give me a fucking break.

Your self-righteous outrage is totally unwarranted. And quite bizarre, actually.

"Shut up or go back to Africa."

First of all, I'm not black. I've said that at least 10 times in this thread alone. It's disgusting that you'd actually say that to a person, believing that they were indeed a black American. I even said that my ancestors themselves owned slaves.

"Embrace this country (and every ounce of its unrepaired history) my ancestors came to 90 years ago or shut the fuck up and go back to the continent your ancestors were stolen from 400 years ago!"

Makes a whole bunch of sense, doesn't it? How about: you don't know a single thing about me and every assumption and miscalculated shred of insight you've gleaned from this thread is a total mess of human socialization on your part.

[Daldolma]

thread is dum

racism not dead, also not at all relevant to zimmerman trial

[Rhuma7]

You've obviously read zero of the posts in this thread.


"Shut up or go back to Africa."

/thread

[Kagatob]

Stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self_hating_jew

Nobody cares what you have to say any more.

[Vineyea]

Well, I'm not going to say drop everything and devote your life to studying the topic of this thread. Although, if you want to churn through a lot of material it's probably going to be much more fun than waiting for a rogue to CR you from cebilis <cough> nerf <cough>

Joseph's book is available on Nook: http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/waiting-til-the-midnight-hour-peniel-joseph/1110785250?ean=9781466837614

UCLA and Berkley courses might be leisure if you don't watch t.v.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE62F19DE82271A15

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-XXv-cvA_iCALiUoQBh45q4PDaxaYMxg

And I'm sure you can find much, much more.

Cheers.

[Malice_Mizer]

Nobody in this thread is going to watch those lectures.

They should. But they won't, because their minds are already welded shut like a bear trap.

I'd also recommend everyone read The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness. It'll challenge everything you think you know about modern incarnations of racism in America, and is particularly relevant to this thread.

http://www.amazon.com/books/dp/1595586431

But again, nobody will read this because anyone who attempts to take a critical look at the history and current state of race relations in the US is just a "whitey-hating racist grudge-monger."

[Vaildez]

Everyone is born judgmental/racist towards those that are different from them whether it's skin color/size/looks/religion it doesn't really matter. In the end you can either sulk about it or make your own life better cause nobody else is going to do it for you.

[Kagatob]

They should. But they won't, because their minds are already welded shut like a bear trap.

Mirror much?

Your avatar is very fitting for you, you know.