The video game industry

[Kagatob]

:mad:

[bubur]

not nearly enough options. cant vote

if i did i would say we are in the ending phase of a technology race between developers to get their new shiny shit out as fast as possible and lure kids in with graphix and toys

thats still going on (hurr durr look at how much money we spent on lara croft's hair) but today we are seeing more success and longevity in those games with huge worlds, heavy content, or enormous potential for customization .. hell we are even still playing the original classics

devs must be noticing and discussing it

maybe im being too optimistic, but yeah, i think as more gamers get fed up with lack of content and become vocal about it, devs will start responding. either that or these gamers will just grow up and design their own shit

[Kagatob]

Indie games are the only things that give me hope for any form of enjoyable gaming to continue to exist.
Minecraft was a stroke of genius. Kudos to Notch for that one, still pissed at Bethesda over the Scrolls bullshit.
Slender was short smart and simple, though the sequel wasn't nearly as great. Whoever made it is obviously going places though I can unfortunately smell mainstream with them.

Zun w/ Team Shanghai Alice has made the ultimate approach for an independent game though. PC only is nice but the big thing is his marketing strategy. He makes his money off of his games and aside from that he lets anyone do anything that they want with his characters/world/games under one condition, they have a set limit of profits and are not allowed to go through mainstream distribution.
What started in 1996 is still going strong with regular releases virtually every year from the parent company and I've yet to meet a fan of his work who tries to make the claim that he's 'sold out', 'jumped the shark' or 'lost his touch'.

I remember when companies like ID software and Blizzard were like that too. :(

[Kagatob]

not nearly enough options. cant vote

You're absolutely right. I should have added an option about multiplayer being forced in pretty much every game and no more decent single player games being developed because they expect players to get bored and want to shoot each other these days.

Also an issue is the polarization between companies either dumbing down of certain games that a monkey can excel at them and at the same time making games that appeal only to the hardcore MLG you're only as good as your actions-per-minute tourneyfags. (Blizzard I'm looking at you here)

Probably other stuff too.

[gotrocks]

just want to point out that 'scrolls bullshit' was totally NOT bethesda, but their lawyers/legal team doing what lawyers get paid a ridiculous retainer to do.

Several higher ups at bethesda made comments that amounted to 'we don't give a single fuck (but our lawyers need something to do besides sail around in their yachts and drive supercars)"

[Hasbinbad]

what "scrolls bullshit" ?

[gotrocks]

Notch wanted to make a new game after minecraft titled 'scrolls' or something like that.

bethesda lawyers went apeshit because it 'sounded too much like "the elder scrolls" and would infringe on their IP'

thats the quick version, the long version isnt much more interesting

[Hasbinbad]

aha .. how dumb

[Hasbinbad]

should call it "The Younger Scrolls"

[gotrocks]

i see what you did there

[Korisek]

aha .. how dumb

As far as I am aware, copyright laws pretty much mandate that they do stuff like that with anything that's even close to infringing on their copyrights in a "use it or lose it" sort of style, but nobody at Bethesda or in their legal team were actually planning on doing anything more than sending a copypasta C&D.

[Hasbinbad]

Intellectual property is a lie.

[Samoht]

yeah, if that's all that stopped it, then it probably isn't worth fighting over

[Kagatob]

Copyright bullshit is a big part of it too. The nature of advertising as well I believe.
Nintendo forcing "innovation" down everyone's throat isn't new but the amount that they've been doing it has increased exponentially the past two generations. I shelved my Wii some 4 years ago haven't looked back, laughed off the Wii U.

[Eliseus]

I'm confused on what you mean by what is wrong with the video game industry. If you are referring to the industry now vs in the 90s (or something similar), nothing is wrong.

[Eliseus]

It is actually significantly better and is still getting better.

[Kagatob]

I guess someone has to feel that way. It's easy to forget that nearly half the country voted for the dude with the magical underpants too.

[Pico]

it's official kagatob somehow a more annoying poster than hasbinbad

[Doors]

That sig makes me want to put him on ignore god damn.

[Kagatob]

I don't know... new link to the past sounds good.

I thought it sounded good too until I watched the vid and saw all of the 3d gimmicks and the stupid painting crap. The day Nintendo realizes that they don't need to fix what isn't broke is the day they become the top tier developer again, that day probably won't come any time soon if ever though as they seem to be perfectly happy being the kid-friendly family system.

I hope I'm wrong, but at $35 (handheld) to $60 (PC) to $70-80 (console) per game, is it really worth it to buy games on the chance that they might not be the steaming pile of crap in the $10 bin in 6 months that 99% of releases are? It's not like spending 8 bucks to see a movie that may or may not stink. That's just how I look at it.

[Eliseus]

I guess someone has to feel that way. It's easy to forget that nearly half the country voted for the dude with the magical underpants too.

Statistics would say otherwise. Just because you are stuck in the past doesn't mean the industry should be.

[Kagatob]

Statistics would say otherwise. Just because you are stuck in the past doesn't mean the industry should be.

Learn2context.
You're the only person in this thread thus far who seems to give a rats ass about these companies' profits. By your logic EA games must be the most amazing company to ever exist.

[Eliseus]

Learn2context.
You're the only person in this thread thus far who seems to give a rats ass about these companies' profits. By your logic EA games must be the most amazing company to ever exist.

I never mentioned profit. People agreeing on opinions =/ it being right.

For example, most people think you are stupid, but is that correct? No (For arguments sake let us say no, even though you really are).

[Kagatob]

I never mentioned profit. People agreeing on opinions =/ it being right.

What "statistics would say otherwise" that don't involve sales AKA profit then? :confused:

[Daldolma]

am so sick of gaming companies appealing to broad fanbases and developing popular concepts

my niche is best niche, give the ppl crystal pepsi

[Eliseus]

https://depts.washington.edu/critgame/wordpress/2010/04/fyi-video-game-statistics-by-the-entertainment-software-association/

Just one link, I'm sure you could find more. To state that the industry is a "crapshoot" is completely false.

[Kagatob]

am so sick of every gaming company only appealing to broad fanbases and developing concepts based solely on how much money they think it'll make.

What ever happened to a niche? Some people actually liked crystal pepsi
FTFY to something well said. :)

[Kagatob]

https://depts.washington.edu/critgame/wordpress/2010/04/fyi-video-game-statistics-by-the-entertainment-software-association/

Just one link, I'm sure you could find more. To state that the industry is a "crapshoot" is completely false.

That entire article was about how big the "multibillion dollar industry" has become, and statistics about money, money, how many people buy videogames and then a topic after the statistics talking about... money.

What "statistics would say otherwise" that don't involve sales AKA profit then? :confused:

[Eliseus]

FTFY to something well said. :)

I think you really are dumb if you assume companies wouldn't base their product on making money, oh, which would also be towards majority in their product, which would suggest that more people like then hate the product which would mean it isn't a crapshoot, but actually quite successful.

Your opinion isn't the right one all the time, no matter how you want to make it out to be.

[Kagatob]

I think you really are dumb if you assume companies wouldn't base their product on making money, oh, which would also be towards majority in their product, which would suggest that more people like then hate the product which would mean it isn't a crapshoot, but actually quite successful.

Your opinion isn't the right one all the time, no matter how you want to make it out to be.

I never mentioned profit.

Still focusing on profit/sales. I thought you were trying to make a specific point before. I guess I was wrong.

[Eliseus]

That entire article was about how big the "multibillion dollar industry" has become, and statistics about money, money, how many people buy videogames and then a topic after the statistics talking about... money.

You didn't read it all then. Let's point out to that this is 2010 till I highlight things in the article that you were obviously oblivious to.

"Sixty-eight percent of American households play computer or video games."

"Forty percent of all game players are women. In fact, women over the age of 18 represent a significantly greater portion of the game-playing population (34 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (18 percent)."

"In 2009, 25 percent of Americans over the age of 50 play video games, an increase from nine percent in 1999."

"Thirty-seven percent of heads of households play games on a wireless device, such as a cell phone or PDA, up from 20 percent in 2002."

"Sixty-three percent of parents believe games are a positive part of their children’s lives."

"Violent crime, particularly among the young, has decreased dramatically since the early 1990s. During the same period of time, video games have steadily increased in popularity and use, exactly the opposite of what one would expect if there were a causal link."

"More than one-third of gamers are women ."

"Sixty-three percent of parents believe games are a positive part of their children’s lives."

"Sales of “family entertainment” video games more than doubled in 2007, making it the fastest growing segment of the video game market."

"Seventy-five percent of parents believe that the parental controls available in all new video game consoles are useful."

[Eliseus]

Many of those definitely look like the industry has improved. Doesn't matter if it is because of profits or not, and some of those aren't directly towards profits.

Now, that is just one article, I'm sure Professor Google can help you with your bias bigotry mind.

Inb4 Genital Mutilation.

[Kagatob]

You didn't read it all then. Let's point out to that this is 2010 till I highlight things in the article that you were obviously oblivious to.

"Sixty-eight percent of American households play computer or video games."

"Forty percent of all game players are women. In fact, women over the age of 18 represent a significantly greater portion of the game-playing population (34 percent) than boys age 17 or younger (18 percent)."

"In 2009, 25 percent of Americans over the age of 50 play video games, an increase from nine percent in 1999."

"Thirty-seven percent of heads of households play games on a wireless device, such as a cell phone or PDA, up from 20 percent in 2002."

"Sixty-three percent of parents believe games are a positive part of their children’s lives."

"Violent crime, particularly among the young, has decreased dramatically since the early 1990s. During the same period of time, video games have steadily increased in popularity and use, exactly the opposite of what one would expect if there were a causal link."

"More than one-third of gamers are women ."

"Sixty-three percent of parents believe games are a positive part of their children’s lives."

"Sales of “family entertainment” video games more than doubled in 2007, making it the fastest growing segment of the video game market."

"Seventy-five percent of parents believe that the parental controls available in all new video game consoles are useful."

None of the bolded points are about the video game industry, they are about video gaming culture which while related has nothing to do with the development of game software and is separate from the industry itself.

Though I can give a little bit, I should of added the culture as one of the options in the poll as well (WoW much?). :)

[Eliseus]

None of the bolded points are about the video game industry, they are about video gaming culture which while related has nothing to do with the development of game software and is separate from the industry itself.

Though I can give a little bit, I should of added the culture as one of the options in the poll as well (WoW much?). :)

What, not part of the video game industry? More people playing video games etc... has nothing to do with the video game industry? Lol wut?

So let me get this straight, only things that YOU allow in your warped mind to be acceptable is only in the video game industry

Many of those definitely look like the industry has improved. Doesn't matter if it is because of profits or not, and some of those aren't directly towards profits.

Now, that is just one article, I'm sure Professor Google can help you with your bias bigotry mind.

Inb4 Genital Mutilation.

GG

[Eliseus]

You remind me of the people the blame violence video games for the reason their retarded child went homicidal crazy.

[Kagatob]

I don't think you understand what an industry is...

[Eliseus]

I don't think you understand what an industry is...

I don't think you understand what an industry is. You probably created some fictional definition in your mind that you have somehow made it your mission to let everyone know.

[Kagatob]

I don't think you understand what an industry is. You probably created some fictional definition in your mind that you have somehow made it your mission to let everyone know.

in·dus·try [in-duh-stree] Show IPA
noun, plural in·dus·tries for 1, 2, 7.
1.
the aggregate of manufacturing or technically productive enterprises in a particular field, often named after its principal product: the automobile industry; the steel industry.
2.
any general business activity; commercial enterprise: the Italian tourist industry.
3.
trade or manufacture in general: the rise of industry in Africa.
4.
the ownership and management of companies, factories, etc.: friction between labor and industry.
5.
systematic work or labor.
I looked at several other definitions as well and none of them mentioned the consumer either.

Are you done yet?

[Eliseus]

I looked at several other definitions as well and none of them mentioned the consumer either.

Are you done yet?

Do you even..... know what any of those definitions mean?

[Kagatob]

Do you even..... know what any of those definitions mean?

Absolutely. Do you know what they specifically don't refer to?

[Eliseus]

I would like to specifically point out #2

"any general business activity; commercial enterprise"

Apparently, you just skip over everything.

[Kagatob]

Which references the consumer oh I dunno. pi divided by the square route of the mass of plutonium at absolute zero times one trillionth the speed of light in a seventh dimensional universe. It doesn't?

[Eliseus]

Which references the consumer oh I dunno. pi divided by the square route of the mass of plutonium at absolute zero times one trillionth the speed of light in a seventh dimensional universe. It doesn't?

You're right, consumers of products have nothing to do with any business..... lmao. Go the fuck away. You are one of the biggest idiots I have ever had the pleasure of coming across on a forum.

[Kagatob]

I'm confused on what you mean by what is wrong with the video game industry. If you are referring to the industry now vs in the 90s (or something similar), nothing is wrong.

It is actually significantly better and is still getting better.

10 posts about how consumers = the industry

You're right, consumers of products have nothing to do with any business..... lmao. Go the fuck away. You are one of the biggest idiots I have ever had the pleasure of coming across on a forum.

You don't even understand the contextual changes in your own posts, it's nobody's failure but my own to hope that I'd be able to help you figure out the context of "industry" when it refers to the video game industry and why the developers of hardware/software are making shitty product regardless of sales statistics.

Going to stop wasting my time responding to your posts for now. ;)

[Eliseus]

You don't even understand the contextual changes in your own posts, it's nobody's failure but my own to hope that I'd be able to help you figure out the context of "industry" when it refers to the video game industry and why the developers of hardware/software are making shitty product regardless of sales statistics.

Going to stop wasting my time responding to your posts for now. ;)

Bye.

[Kagatob]

Speaking of consumers, does anyone else remember when E3 was about gamers and the things they liked instead of developers just wanking all over each other?

[Alawen]

I used to write for SGI back in the late 90s and I went to E3 in Atlanta in 1997. I met the guys who did Sonic and I got to submit questions to Shigeru Miyamoto's interpreter in a huge clusterfuck. I thought it was all kind of lame and the swag was unimpressive, but I played a lot of video games that never came out and the Lara Croft booth babe had giant boobs. I think they were paying me $500 a day plus travel expenses because no one knew I was a gamer. That part wasn't lame at all.

[Kagatob]

I used to write for SGI back in the late 90s and I went to E3 in Atlanta in 1997. I met the guys who did Sonic and I got to submit questions to Shigeru Miyamoto's interpreter in a huge clusterfuck. I thought it was all kind of lame and the swag was unimpressive, but I played a lot of video games that never came out and the Lara Croft booth babe had giant boobs. I think they were paying me $500 a day plus travel expenses because no one knew I was a gamer. That part wasn't lame at all.

I believe 100% of this story. My friend who's a stand-up comedian on the side gets paid to go to every convention, E3, Pax, comicon etc. He spends most of his time recording himself trolling the people running the booths because they pay him hundreds of dollars + expenses to do one specific interview each day. :D

[Alawen]

It was just a one time thing for me. There were three of us that did all the writing for SGI during their heyday and neither of the others wanted to go at all, so they were basically bribing me. I didn't make any lasting friendships at that event, but I have quite a few friends who later became developers from my days on the MtG PT circuit. Everyone I know who works in gaming loves it, except apparently Zynga is an awful environment with terrible management.

I didn't usually travel for that job. SGI imploded over the next few years because their hardware couldn't stay far enough ahead as Intel processors caught up, but it was a great gig while it lasted.

[Kagatob]

Perhaps consolification is merely a side effect of the market trends within the industry. PC gaming as the top level medium is going the way that Arcades did in the 80's.

I just miss being able to use games as benchmarks to instantly tell if you've built a good "gaming rig" (Doom 3 with my previous box, Crysis for my most recent rig). I know it's not about graphics but it was still damn nice to see what all of those new fancy engines could do every few years. Now we have Rage, which opened up as a buggy failure that faded away while a few of us left (foolishly) hold out hopes for Doom 4.

[Rhuma7]

The problem with the industry is the companies found out that IP is everything and as long as they dont make an MMO they can produce absolute dogshit and make millions.

MMO companies tried the same formula and went bankrupt because they require people to still play their shit games after a week.

If the industry is going in the right direction why is everyone still playing WoW and Call of Duty?

[Servellious]

Dragon age 2 is a great example of how fucked up shit can get. How does a company fuck up such a bad ass game that badly

[gotrocks]

Gaming as an industry IS most definitely growing, however, it's different from what you may think.

In the past, there was essentially 3 "levels" of games coming out. You had the large AAA games like Halo. Games that had huge development teams, budgets, and production. They had massive marketing campaigns. They still have all of this today, it just costs even MORE money to make because of the technology and where it's at. Then there was a mid-level of games, lets call them 'B' titles, games that were pretty half assedly slapped together, never received critical acclaim, and didn't move a ton of units. These games were still made and were still profitable because the time and money required to make them was small in comparison to what it takes to make a game today. This is why you got barbie whatever adventures and spaceshit: the toilet directive and the paper empire. These games had minimal marketing. Lastly, you still had a small handful of indie developers, we'll call them 'I' titles. These games could range from absolute shit to absolute hit (counterstrike is a good example, even though it was a mod). They had NO marketing budget and were generally put together by small teams with small budgets working a job or two on the side while they developed their game.

So what happened?

'B' Titles started disappearing. People figured out that this 'middleware' bullshit was in fact, bullshit. I call it middleware but industry people have a not so nice term for it. And as game development costs for these middleware titles rose, and sales slumped even more, developers who made these cobbled together shit houses started going out of business, and the big boys in publishing realized it wasn't worth it anymore. You either go big or go home. Suddenly, everything was a AAA title. If you were making a game, it had to have a massive budget, marketing everywhere, and huge development teams. This created a TON of great games, and is the reason we have games like Bioshock. However, these triple a titles soon ran into a problem. Because their development was so outrageously expensive, publishers obviously had to make less titles with more money. This meant that if big triple A game xyz didn't sell 2 million copies in its first 3 months, it was an utter failure and lost money for the company. As a result, publishers started taking less chances with new IP, new talent, new developers. They wanted something they were comfortable with, and if you didn't have the pedigree and a '2, 3, 4, 5 ,6 7, or 8' next to your title, you weren't even looked at once. In retrospect, this was all a terrible turn of events for the industry because gamers really got screwed in the end. Publishers needed ways to monetize games beyond the initial purchase, especially because used game sales were EXPLODING, and in game purchases (read: dlc) popped up everywhere. This DLC wasn't always good, and sometimes it was downright scandalous (Capcom famously released a game that had 'Day one dlc' PROGRAMMED ON THE DISC and when you were paying to 'download the fucking downloadable content' you were in fact just unlocking it. wow). In addition to this, the smaller developers with big ideas didn't get funded, because it just wasn't enough to have universal praise and critical acclaim from the journalism side of things - you had to be a triple platinum seller or more to compete.

A lot of games companies started going under at this point. Good games companies making good fucking games. The reason for this was that true hardcore gaming, which a lot of these companies catered to, was a niche market, and there's only so much of that market that can be grabbed per month before all the consumers money is spent and no more is going to come out of their wallets. Smaller teams of great men and women suddenly needed a new way to pay their pills while still doing what they love. And thus came the Indie explosion.

Mobile games burst onto the scene, and this really kickstarted (no pun intended) the entire indie movement. Suddenly anyone (almost) could slap together a game and put it in front of millions of people via the app store or android market. Likewise, social media allowed these smaller developers to get their PC games out to mass markets by simple word of mouth and sell a million copies with a comparatively tiny budget when looked at next to the big AaA titles. Xbox live started allowing developers to create console games WITHOUT huge multi-million dollar budgets, and this gave us a ton of amazing games. Steam was also a huge player in this drive for indie development. The triple A title was certainly still there, but it had new competition in both the casual market, and the hardcore market. Everything seemed to be in chaos, when in reality it was just a transition.

We are just now starting to pull out of this transition. When the dust settles, gaming is going to be in a good place, in my opinion. We are going to have us, the gamers, funding the projects we want (this is already happening via kickstarter) while also getting amazing big budget experiences like Bioshock infinite to blow us away like a summer blockbuster never could. The next 3 years of gaming is FILLED with brand new experiences that look fantastic at both ends of the spectrum. Both sony and microsoft are embracing indie developers in a way those little companies could only dream about 5 years ago, and wasn't even a thought 10 years ago. Personally, i dont think gaming was ever in a decline in the last 5 or so years. There were definitely some stumbling points, without a doubt, but we have consistently had great gaming experiences month to month for years now and it doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. Whether you're some 40 year old mother who just likes to relax with some angry birds after the kids go to bed, or a 20 something year old fresh out of college and blasting away at CoD in the middle of the night when you have to work early in the morning, gaming has exploded and the new games coming out are going to be better than ever. I am extremely happy this transition occurred, because without it, there would be so many titles we never would have gotten. And all the crap middleware is gone. Now we just have a sprinkling of crap at the high end and a dumptruck load of (usually easy to spot, and certainly easy to read about to find its crap) utter shit at the bottom mixed with a literal treasure trove of golden gaming goodness to find all over. It's like a candy bar, with the triple AAA titles being the aeshetically pleasing and also richly rewarding outer shell of gaming, always drawing you back for more, with the sweet, rich nougat in the center being indie titles, also drawing you back for more but for a different reason, a lighter reason, a different kind of fun (ok so that analogy wasn't perfect, but fuckit this thesis has gone on long enough =P)

In conclusion, Kagatob, I think you are very wrong, and I think there are lots and lots of 'industry' experts who would agree with me. we are about to enter a beautiful time in gaming, transitioning from a relatively mediocre time in gaming (early 2000's) to a still gorgeous yet flawed, still hammering out the rough edges time in gaming (mid 2k's to the present), and finally entering the golden age, where pixels of amazingness will literally rain from the sky, and angels will sing the original halo theme. Gaming hasn't been 'bad' in a very long time. And it isn't going to be bad for a very long time (and yes, i say this with the clusterfuck that is always online drm for everything looming just around the corner). So relax, realize everythings going great, and thank me for the analysis, because I just took you to gaming school in 5 minutes or less (depending on your reading speed. Also, I am sure I left out a section or two that was important to this but I'm EXTREMELY tired right now and need to go to bed, i just had to get this out before any more of this silly discussion went on).

TL;DR? Well here you go:

Essentially,
Present and future:
- two ends of the spectrum
-indie developers making small budget, tons of good games, tons of bad games, bad games are easy to spot.
-big developers making big budget, lots of good games, a few bad ones.

Early 2000's:
-Again, two ends of the spectrum, with maybe a very tiny third end
-medium sized shit games 'middleware', 'trashware', mediocre budget games churned out in sweatshops by dispassioned overworked devlopment teams with the goal of not selling many copies because the game is shit, but also not giving a damn because it didnt cost much to make in the first place. no longer exist because games got too expensive to make and thankfully with the help of the internet and social networks, when a game is shit we know its shit before it even hits the shelves. they stopped making money (thank god!)
-AAA games, still big budget, still big teams, still high expected sales (though not nearly as high as the expectations nowadays). Publihers took more chances because development was less expensive. Niche genres and experiences got a fair amount of attention. Tons of amazing AAA games made in this period, but also a fair amount of mediocre ones, and plenty of bad ones as well!
-Indie games! these were still around but due to a lack of a solid distribution platform, and no backing from consoles, meant that PC only indie experiences were all that could be created, and social marketing (word of mouth advertising) had to literally be done by word of mouth. There were still successes, just not nearly as many. A few gems came out of this (I used counterstrike in my example, even though it was a mod first), and lots and lots of garbage, some of them blatant cash grabs.

That's it! The TL;DR section really only tells a fraction of the tale. For the whole story please read above it :) hope you enjoyed! Feel free to disagree with me and tons of industry vets who know about these things, but you're probably wrong :D. regardless, healthy discussion of any topic is almost always a good thing.

[Kagatob]

gotrocks I did actually read the whole thing and on a lot of your points I do agree with you. You speak of the future and it's potential and I do have high hope that you're right, back to my arcade crash of the 80's example before, what happened right after that? The age of NES and SNES/Sega and the earlier years of the PS/N64, the golden age of console gaming if you would. It could happen again, and while I hope it does the eternal pessimist in me won't let me get those hopes too high.

You call it a transitional phase that we're in right now and we may very well be in one, but at the moment is it so wrong to call it the shit that it is? I still think the biggest issue is the consolification and no solution to that seems to be on the horizon, I don't think it was addressed in your thesis there. In large part because of the consoles even the so-called AAA titles are garbage 9 out of 10 times, I think back to when the PS3 first released and Unreal Tournament 3 was the first of many many multiplatform letdowns, Skyrim and Rage were so unfinished when they released that neither game was playable in the first week, the former being merely passable after a plethora of patches and the latter single handedly turning ID who were THE (and later one of the top) premier FPS engine company into a laughingstock. Those are the three examples I can think of off of the top of my head.

Then there's Blizzard who produced Starcraft 2 with a boring campaign with a shitty story that amounted to training to shove you in multiplayer and yet at the same time the game had DRM that never even allowed basic network support! Diablo 3 I don't even need to get into detail about as the joke of a game speaks for itself (oh look that's going on consoles as well).

I wouldn't be so pissed if I didn't spend money on each and every one of those games expecting them to be any amount of quality because of how hard the developers claimed to be working on them. It's been so long since I bought a title worth buying I don't even remember what it was (It likely was a Mario Kart game or something Halo Reach was ok I guess?).

TL;DR version: I hope you're right man but I think this transition period sucks and I'm not afraid to show it, bitching about it is my primary coping mechanism. :p

[Ranlron swiftsong]

I agree with gotroks.

Suikoden 4 for an example:Sucks and FFXIII is the biggest disgrace in FF history.
FFXIII shows that se are in it for the money only, and don't care about making the rpg gamers happy.

I also voted console games, because i'd rather have a full screen console or pc game, than a hand held game.I prefer console over hand held games any day, and pc games as well.

I played both american rpgs, and jrpgs.I played real time and strategy rpgs, and turn based rpgs, and even action rpgs.

I played zelda, paper mario, which is a platform rpg, ultima series, which is turn based rpg and in times real time rpg, wizardry, which is a dungeon crawler real time rpg.I also played daggerfall, oblivion, diablo, dragon age origins, bioshock 2, fable2, fallout 3, wasteland, etc etc.

I played in jrpg types like:Fire emblem, pokemon type games, final fantasy 1-13,suikoden, tales of symphonia, phantasy star on the xbox 360, ff tactics, legend of legaia, secret of mana, legend of mana, etc etc.

What i want:

A gaming console system which doesn't exploit dlc as a way to make an extra buck to fuck us over.In Dragon age origins, i felt ripped off to having to pay extra to use shale.I also noticed very small changes for for dlc and paid out the ass.

A game that doesn't concentrate only on pretty cutscenes, and to have an original story:FF games have been fucked since the dawn of time.Since ff7, square has been fucking up more and more left and right.From FF7's cliche characters and questionable confusing story that was at best decent, to FFXIII's linear passages and shitty characters that make me cringe.Hope i think, is one of the whiniest characters of all rpg history, and i swear:vanille is a rip off of selphie.I also can't stand snow being a dumbass he is.The crystagen system sucks, because you are forced to grind in specific spots, and you can't level up through most of the game because you are limited on how strong you can get.No more power leveling to breeze through bosses.

[Kagatobs]

What I Want:

A porn console.

[Kagatob]

I hate the most critically acclaimed game since Pong!

My favorite part was when you said 1996 was "the dawn of time." :p

[Awwalike]

lunar silver star story
lunar eternal blue

[Ranlron swiftsong]

Who says some critically acclaimed games can't be overrated? ff7 sure is overrated Some games received their just deserved praise too.FF7 was a good game for an example, but terribly overrated.Overrated doesn't mean bad, it means it received more praise than it deserves.

I saw lunar silver star gameplay footage.It looked interesting but very cheesy story.Never heard so much singing in a game in my life though, so it has its good points

[Rhuma7]

Nobody answered my question.

All the games that were mentioned were from the 90's and VERY early 2000's.

It's been almost 20 years now since people played a game more than one time through.

The only game other than an "mmo" that I played more than once was skyrim and who here got to experience the pc version of it? Absolutely fucking horrendous.

This catering to the masses shit is what is ruining the industry and almost contradicting myself, we also dont need all these different consoles being developed along side eachother trying to compete with themselves.

Face it, the industry is more interested in selling you a $500 console and getting a few hundred bucks in shit game purchases out of you can all coming together on the same platform and getting a few thousand dollars in quality games from you.

Back in the SNES days all these developers were making games on at the most...2 platforms, the SNES and the SEGA GENESIS. Now we have nintendo doing their own massive collection of consoles, microsoft doing their own console, Sony doing their own console all the way trying to fuck eachother in the ass with the shortly lived push for movement recognition sensors (hai soccor mom! you can work out while playing a game! herp derp) and all choking the shit out of your wallet by making exclusive titles with a (then) bloated pricetag so you were pretty much "locked in" for whatever console their marketing ended up making you buy (hey guys we got blue-ray built in!) or (were cheaper and have absolutely no RPGs but you can play call of duty!)
or even better (hey guys were totally family orientated but you should buy our system because our controller looks like a vibrator!)

All the while I sit back in disgust of this console era of bullshit money grabbing corporate train-wreck of new technology to broaden the gaming playerbase. Obviously it has worked or has the 80's and 90's generation that actually played decent games has had kids now and its just population increase with a bit of nudging on their parents part?

Were all on a fucking 1999 emulator but the industry is fine! It's all gravy! It's not a lull were just beta testing for the next wave of awesomeness that is more of the same bullshit trying to corner-stone the market with whatever titles they can put in a stranglehold to make you buy their 400-500 dollar bullshit console so you can then beta test the next generation of shit gaming with an even bigger pricetag.

Oh and you better not "try out" any of these games at gamestop or its like, piracy!

[gotrocks]

^^ To you and kagatob i say this:

It seems like you guys just flat out don't like the games that are coming out nowadays. Maybe you've grown out of gaming. Maybe you're just really into the older stuff and the new stuff no longer appeals to you. Maybe you're depressed irl and the things that used to hold joy for you just really dont anymore so you want to let some steam out on here as a sort of therapy.

Whatever the case, there are lots and lots of good games that have come out in the last 5 years, and there are lots and lots of good games coming out in the future.

I already did answer your question in my novel up there, guy above me. But if you didnt read it, we've have bioshock infinite, tons of indy games that warrant replay (minecraft, limbo, mark of hte ninja, countless others), mass effect series, tomb raider, uncharted 3, this list can go on and on.

Kagatob you pointed out that 9/10 games that come out nowadays are shit, i'd say you are generalizing a bit. 1/5 games are mindblowingly good. 1/5 of games are good, fun to play, etc. 2/5 games fall somewhere in the middle of the sprectrum, they are ok, but you may not finish the campaign and it'll likely be a return or resell if you get the channce, and 1/5 are complete shit that never should have been released (Aliens colonial marines).

This is really all about perspective, and I just dont think you guys are going to see it from mine, or how many games journalists and gamers see it. Again, the reason for this is really up for you to discover, or to not discover, but theres no way for me to argue this point with you guys :)

Basically it boils down to this: You guys dont like the games that are coming out, lots of other people do, you can insult them/us all you want but it wont change the fact that there are indeed good games coming out every month and that hte industry as a whole is doing very very well.

-gotrocks :D

[Eliseus]

^^ To you and kagatob i say this:

It seems like you guys just flat out don't like the games that are coming out nowadays. Maybe you've grown out of gaming. Maybe you're just really into the older stuff and the new stuff no longer appeals to you. Maybe you're depressed irl and the things that used to hold joy for you just really dont anymore so you want to let some steam out on here as a sort of therapy.

Whatever the case, there are lots and lots of good games that have come out in the last 5 years, and there are lots and lots of good games coming out in the future.

I already did answer your question in my novel up there, guy above me. But if you didnt read it, we've have bioshock infinite, tons of indy games that warrant replay (minecraft, limbo, mark of hte ninja, countless others), mass effect series, tomb raider, uncharted 3, this list can go on and on.

Kagatob you pointed out that 9/10 games that come out nowadays are shit, i'd say you are generalizing a bit. 1/5 games are mindblowingly good. 1/5 of games are good, fun to play, etc. 2/5 games fall somewhere in the middle of the sprectrum, they are ok, but you may not finish the campaign and it'll likely be a return or resell if you get the channce, and 1/5 are complete shit that never should have been released (Aliens colonial marines).

This is really all about perspective, and I just dont think you guys are going to see it from mine, or how many games journalists and gamers see it. Again, the reason for this is really up for you to discover, or to not discover, but theres no way for me to argue this point with you guys :)

Basically it boils down to this: You guys dont like the games that are coming out, lots of other people do, you can insult them/us all you want but it wont change the fact that there are indeed good games coming out every month and that hte industry as a whole is doing very very well.

-gotrocks :D

In my previous posts I point out how Kagatob has a bias bigot mind. Only his opinion matters and whatever he says goes.

Also

Basically it boils down to this: You guys dont like the games that are coming out, lots of other people do, you can insult them/us all you want but it wont change the fact that there are indeed good games coming out every month and that hte industry as a whole is doing very very well.

QFT.

[Gadwen]

Needs at least one more option.

Storytelling built around game mechanics.

[Ranlron swiftsong]

Um this is an answer towards gotroks and rhumas:

The problem is:Some good games do come out, but there are a lot of mediocre games coming out too.In the past, we had less games coming out, and more time taken towards producing them.A lot of big named guys are trying to cater to a wider audience, that part is true, like square enix was doing, and doing so, it appeals less to a wider audience.Dragon age origins was a really good game and one of the more recent rpgs i liked, and i thought lost odyssey was better than the more recent ff games.

There are good games coming out, its just that we are overwelmed by the shitty ones, and feel depressed that the game companies we trusted betrayed us.Se betrayed me, capcom betrayed me, with resident evil series for an example, and mgs4 being a let down a bit.Re5 was a total let down compared to re1-code veronica.It looks like survival horror is coming back, so i'l hold my breath in hope, and buy it.

[August]

The problem with the gaming industry is the same that plagues the movie industry: money.

See, back in the day, when gaming was a new thing and movies weren't so expensive, studios would produce lots of games/movies on original content. They'd get a hit out of every 1/10 or so, and thus a gaming franchise would be born.

Nowadays, a shitton of money goes into games/movies as they are huge business. So, instead of a studio funding 10 low-budget games/movies, they're now only funding 1 10x the cost game/movie. And they NEED it to be a success.

So what do they do? They ply back to the days of yore. That's why there's 10+ Zelda adventures, 10+ FF adventures, 30 million mario worlds, and iron man has been coming back to the silver screen every year since robert downey jr. ate a whataburger and quit his addiction to smack.

indie games, should you choose to go there, is where the innovation is happening because once again we're in a medium of 'low budget' games where there can be a ton of crapshoots and we elect to pluck one delicate flower (minecraft, anyone?) from the refuge and give it a nice pat on the back to the tune of millions of dollars.

Of course, now a minecraft clone, Minecraft 2, could come out, and it starts the process.

To keep gaming current and modern and not a reduction on past premise we have to encourage the fledgling independent game and/or film industry so that more people will take risks on original content. Until then, enjoy Spiderman 7.

tomtee

[kotton05]

I usually don't get games as they come out I'm usually tied up in old games. Just beat FF7 again. Trying out Legend of dragoon sometime soon I think.

As for the industry I hope the Indy gamer can take over somehow. The more fingers in the pot the more it becomes a diluted game.

[Gadwen]

The problem with the gaming industry is the same that plagues the movie industry: money.

See, back in the day, when gaming was a new thing and movies weren't so expensive, studios would produce lots of games/movies on original content. They'd get a hit out of every 1/10 or so, and thus a gaming franchise would be born.

Nowadays, a shitton of money goes into games/movies as they are huge business. So, instead of a studio funding 10 low-budget games/movies, they're now only funding 1 10x the cost game/movie. And they NEED it to be a success.

So what do they do? They ply back to the days of yore. That's why there's 10+ Zelda adventures, 10+ FF adventures, 30 million mario worlds, and iron man has been coming back to the silver screen every year since robert downey jr. ate a whataburger and quit his addiction to smack.

indie games, should you choose to go there, is where the innovation is happening because once again we're in a medium of 'low budget' games where there can be a ton of crapshoots and we elect to pluck one delicate flower (minecraft, anyone?) from the refuge and give it a nice pat on the back to the tune of millions of dollars.

Of course, now a minecraft clone, Minecraft 2, could come out, and it starts the process.

To keep gaming current and modern and not a reduction on past premise we have to encourage the fledgling independent game and/or film industry so that more people will take risks on original content. Until then, enjoy Spiderman 7.

tomtee

I definitely agree about indie games being where its at right now. This is the great thing about digital distribution that often gets ignored when the subject is brought up. Platforms like Steam, or even Xbox Live have allowed the indie game developer to bring his product to the masses without being tied up with some publishing deal, and without investing millions of dollars to distribute their games. Now I really can't speak to how fair these platforms are in terms of profit for the indie devs, but at least they are able to get their games out there and be taken seriously.

[Ranlron swiftsong]

I usually don't get games as they come out I'm usually tied up in old games. Just beat FF7 again. Trying out Legend of dragoon sometime soon I think.

As for the industry I hope the Indy gamer can take over somehow. The more fingers in the pot the more it becomes a diluted game.

Xbox 360 says hello.Lots of indie free games, but some of them are clearly not professional, like that zombie cat game, and the dragon warrior clone where you pick up monsters.In fact:There are a lot of those kind, but some of em are better designed and have interesting fun ideas.I saw a game that was horror where you used some kinda magic and were killing zombies, and you played a girl inside of a house on xbox 360.It was interesting enough.

[gotrocks]

To raniron:
and august, i already said that in this post =P


Gaming as an industry IS most definitely growing, however, it's different from what you may think.

In the past, there was essentially 3 "levels" of games coming out. You had the large AAA games like Halo. Games that had huge development teams, budgets, and production. They had massive marketing campaigns. They still have all of this today, it just costs even MORE money to make because of the technology and where it's at. Then there was a mid-level of games, lets call them 'B' titles, games that were pretty half assedly slapped together, never received critical acclaim, and didn't move a ton of units. These games were still made and were still profitable because the time and money required to make them was small in comparison to what it takes to make a game today. This is why you got barbie whatever adventures and spaceshit: the toilet directive and the paper empire. These games had minimal marketing. Lastly, you still had a small handful of indie developers, we'll call them 'I' titles. These games could range from absolute shit to absolute hit (counterstrike is a good example, even though it was a mod). They had NO marketing budget and were generally put together by small teams with small budgets working a job or two on the side while they developed their game.

So what happened?

'B' Titles started disappearing. People figured out that this 'middleware' bullshit was in fact, bullshit. I call it middleware but industry people have a not so nice term for it. And as game development costs for these middleware titles rose, and sales slumped even more, developers who made these cobbled together shit houses started going out of business, and the big boys in publishing realized it wasn't worth it anymore. You either go big or go home. Suddenly, everything was a AAA title. If you were making a game, it had to have a massive budget, marketing everywhere, and huge development teams. This created a TON of great games, and is the reason we have games like Bioshock. However, these triple a titles soon ran into a problem. Because their development was so outrageously expensive, publishers obviously had to make less titles with more money. This meant that if big triple A game xyz didn't sell 2 million copies in its first 3 months, it was an utter failure and lost money for the company. As a result, publishers started taking less chances with new IP, new talent, new developers. They wanted something they were comfortable with, and if you didn't have the pedigree and a '2, 3, 4, 5 ,6 7, or 8' next to your title, you weren't even looked at once. In retrospect, this was all a terrible turn of events for the industry because gamers really got screwed in the end. Publishers needed ways to monetize games beyond the initial purchase, especially because used game sales were EXPLODING, and in game purchases (read: dlc) popped up everywhere. This DLC wasn't always good, and sometimes it was downright scandalous (Capcom famously released a game that had 'Day one dlc' PROGRAMMED ON THE DISC and when you were paying to 'download the fucking downloadable content' you were in fact just unlocking it. wow). In addition to this, the smaller developers with big ideas didn't get funded, because it just wasn't enough to have universal praise and critical acclaim from the journalism side of things - you had to be a triple platinum seller or more to compete.

A lot of games companies started going under at this point. Good games companies making good fucking games. The reason for this was that true hardcore gaming, which a lot of these companies catered to, was a niche market, and there's only so much of that market that can be grabbed per month before all the consumers money is spent and no more is going to come out of their wallets. Smaller teams of great men and women suddenly needed a new way to pay their pills while still doing what they love. And thus came the Indie explosion.

Mobile games burst onto the scene, and this really kickstarted (no pun intended) the entire indie movement. Suddenly anyone (almost) could slap together a game and put it in front of millions of people via the app store or android market. Likewise, social media allowed these smaller developers to get their PC games out to mass markets by simple word of mouth and sell a million copies with a comparatively tiny budget when looked at next to the big AaA titles. Xbox live started allowing developers to create console games WITHOUT huge multi-million dollar budgets, and this gave us a ton of amazing games. Steam was also a huge player in this drive for indie development. The triple A title was certainly still there, but it had new competition in both the casual market, and the hardcore market. Everything seemed to be in chaos, when in reality it was just a transition.

We are just now starting to pull out of this transition. When the dust settles, gaming is going to be in a good place, in my opinion. We are going to have us, the gamers, funding the projects we want (this is already happening via kickstarter) while also getting amazing big budget experiences like Bioshock infinite to blow us away like a summer blockbuster never could. The next 3 years of gaming is FILLED with brand new experiences that look fantastic at both ends of the spectrum. Both sony and microsoft are embracing indie developers in a way those little companies could only dream about 5 years ago, and wasn't even a thought 10 years ago. Personally, i dont think gaming was ever in a decline in the last 5 or so years. There were definitely some stumbling points, without a doubt, but we have consistently had great gaming experiences month to month for years now and it doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. Whether you're some 40 year old mother who just likes to relax with some angry birds after the kids go to bed, or a 20 something year old fresh out of college and blasting away at CoD in the middle of the night when you have to work early in the morning, gaming has exploded and the new games coming out are going to be better than ever. I am extremely happy this transition occurred, because without it, there would be so many titles we never would have gotten. And all the crap middleware is gone. Now we just have a sprinkling of crap at the high end and a dumptruck load of (usually easy to spot, and certainly easy to read about to find its crap) utter shit at the bottom mixed with a literal treasure trove of golden gaming goodness to find all over. It's like a candy bar, with the triple AAA titles being the aeshetically pleasing and also richly rewarding outer shell of gaming, always drawing you back for more, with the sweet, rich nougat in the center being indie titles, also drawing you back for more but for a different reason, a lighter reason, a different kind of fun (ok so that analogy wasn't perfect, but fuckit this thesis has gone on long enough =P)

In conclusion, Kagatob, I think you are very wrong, and I think there are lots and lots of 'industry' experts who would agree with me. we are about to enter a beautiful time in gaming, transitioning from a relatively mediocre time in gaming (early 2000's) to a still gorgeous yet flawed, still hammering out the rough edges time in gaming (mid 2k's to the present), and finally entering the golden age, where pixels of amazingness will literally rain from the sky, and angels will sing the original halo theme. Gaming hasn't been 'bad' in a very long time. And it isn't going to be bad for a very long time (and yes, i say this with the clusterfuck that is always online drm for everything looming just around the corner). So relax, realize everythings going great, and thank me for the analysis, because I just took you to gaming school in 5 minutes or less (depending on your reading speed. Also, I am sure I left out a section or two that was important to this but I'm EXTREMELY tired right now and need to go to bed, i just had to get this out before any more of this silly discussion went on).

TL;DR? Well here you go:

Essentially,
Present and future:
- two ends of the spectrum
-indie developers making small budget, tons of good games, tons of bad games, bad games are easy to spot.
-big developers making big budget, lots of good games, a few bad ones.

Early 2000's:
-Again, two ends of the spectrum, with maybe a very tiny third end
-medium sized shit games 'middleware', 'trashware', mediocre budget games churned out in sweatshops by dispassioned overworked devlopment teams with the goal of not selling many copies because the game is shit, but also not giving a damn because it didnt cost much to make in the first place. no longer exist because games got too expensive to make and thankfully with the help of the internet and social networks, when a game is shit we know its shit before it even hits the shelves. they stopped making money (thank god!)
-AAA games, still big budget, still big teams, still high expected sales (though not nearly as high as the expectations nowadays). Publihers took more chances because development was less expensive. Niche genres and experiences got a fair amount of attention. Tons of amazing AAA games made in this period, but also a fair amount of mediocre ones, and plenty of bad ones as well!
-Indie games! these were still around but due to a lack of a solid distribution platform, and no backing from consoles, meant that PC only indie experiences were all that could be created, and social marketing (word of mouth advertising) had to literally be done by word of mouth. There were still successes, just not nearly as many. A few gems came out of this (I used counterstrike in my example, even though it was a mod first), and lots and lots of garbage, some of them blatant cash grabs.

That's it! The TL;DR section really only tells a fraction of the tale. For the whole story please read above it :) hope you enjoyed! Feel free to disagree with me and tons of industry vets who know about these things, but you're probably wrong :D. regardless, healthy discussion of any topic is almost always a good thing.

[August]

Yeah i skip over everything to just post my opinion. That's how I treat rants and flames. I can't be reading the half-witted slobber that comes out of most people's mout...err hands/fingers?

That's cool tho. It's definitely the case.

[August]

There's nothing wrong with the gaming industry. What is wrong is the fact that all of you are spoiled children with WAY too much money. If you spend your money on all these bad games then YOU are sending the message to the gaming industry that they can take advantage of.

If you want the gaming industry to change then you have to stop spending your parents money towards all those horrible games and consoles. Till you do such a thing the gaming industry will continue to reap the awards from your parents pockets.

Ultimately it is your fault video games have taken such a turn.

Right, because the small minority of people that play on a 14-year old emulation server's voices are enough to stop big-studio production.

I think the point is is that a LOT of people buy those games because they pander to the lowest common denominator. I'm willing to bet a lot of people here don't own consoles/buy these stupid games.

As for me, the last console I BOUGHT (i was given an xbox as a signing bonus, one time) was the Nintendo 64. ANd don't tell me Ogre Battle: Person of Lordly Calibur was a bad game.

[Rhuma7]

Whatever the case, there are lots and lots of good games that have come out in the last 5 years, and there are lots and lots of good games coming out in the future.

On what console? How many consoles do I need to own and how many thousands of dollars did you spend to get to those "lots and lots of good games" because I can only name maybe 5 games in the past 5 years that werent dogshit and werent a rehash of a popular IP like Final fantasy/Disgaea/Fallout

[Kagatob]

Kagatob you pointed out that 9/10 games that come out nowadays are shit, i'd say you are generalizing a bit. 1/5 games are mindblowingly good. 1/5 of games are good, fun to play, etc. 2/5 games fall somewhere in the middle of the sprectrum, they are ok, but you may not finish the campaign and it'll likely be a return or resell if you get the channce, and 1/5 are complete shit that never should have been released (Aliens colonial marines).

This is really all about perspective, and I just dont think you guys are going to see it from mine, or how many games journalists and gamers see it. Again, the reason for this is really up for you to discover, or to not discover, but theres no way for me to argue this point with you guys :)

Basically it boils down to this: You guys dont like the games that are coming out, lots of other people do, you can insult them/us all you want but it wont change the fact that there are indeed good games coming out every month and that hte industry as a whole is doing very very well.

-gotrocks :D

That's fair and again I don't disagree with most of what you say as most of it does boil down to opinion. Even going by your statistics of good games vs bad that's still a little less than 50% of the games coming out being absolute trash, I personally can't rationalize continued spending of my money on a coin flip deciding whether I'm getting a garbage game.

When I was talking about the games that I'd purchased that were garbage I wasn't talking about indie games as I do enjoy those. Maybe I'm looking at indie games the wrong way then? I don't even consider them a part of the industry, I consider them good people flipping off the industry by doing with a few hundred dollars what the industry can't do with a few million. :D

Does anyone know if anyone out there is trying to tackle the 'cost of development' problem? It's snowballed to much larger then it should be IMO.

[gotrocks]

On what console? How many consoles do I need to own and how many thousands of dollars did you spend to get to those "lots and lots of good games" because I can only name maybe 5 games in the past 5 years that werent dogshit and werent a rehash of a popular IP like Final fantasy/Disgaea/Fallout

You could own a ps3 and play the exclusives alone (which are generally very good, uncharted 1-3, the last of us is coming out, god of war 3, dark souls/demons souls, this list can go on longer, but i think the bottom line is you think pretty much all games are shit. That's your opinion. I think it's incorrect, but im not going to change your mind on that.

[Rhuma7]

You could own a ps3 and play the exclusives alone (which are generally very good, uncharted 1-3, the last of us is coming out, god of war 3, dark souls/demons souls, this list can go on longer, but i think the bottom line is you think pretty much all games are shit. That's your opinion. I think it's incorrect, but im not going to change your mind on that.

Let me just finish my point on this because its turning into bickering.

Do you ever think they will stop making Final Fantasy games?

Rhetorical question, the obvious answer, is no.

The real question is, why should they stop making them?

[Rhuma7]

You could own a ps3 and play the exclusives alone (which are generally very good, uncharted 1-3, the last of us is coming out, god of war 3, dark souls/demons souls, this list can go on longer, but i think the bottom line is you think pretty much all games are shit. That's your opinion. I think it's incorrect, but im not going to change your mind on that.

Oh and I forgot to point out you just named 2/3 games that are rehashes of popular IPs.

[Kagatob]

Every review I read about Dark Souls said that it was nothing but a terrible Zelda clone. I haven't played God of War because I don't give Sony my money, regardless that style of game much like Devil May Cry just isn't my style.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

not nearly enough options. cant vote

if i did i would say we are in the ending phase of a technology race between developers to get their new shiny shit out as fast as possible and lure kids in with graphix and toys

thats still going on (hurr durr look at how much money we spent on lara croft's hair) but today we are seeing more success and longevity in those games with huge worlds, heavy content, or enormous potential for customization .. hell we are even still playing the original classics

devs must be noticing and discussing it

maybe im being too optimistic, but yeah, i think as more gamers get fed up with lack of content and become vocal about it, devs will start responding. either that or these gamers will just grow up and design their own shit

free the code, and our asses will follow. Subscription games willbe a luxury item we will checkout; pay toplay games will all turn into games about farming; and gamers, mainly?

This here is the future. We will go were the lore and content is, and be able to "flash populate" servers.

Really, all of us are bored with "Big Games" right? -- we just want reliable, solid worlds with populations and solid mechanics and content. No need to go through the big companies for much longer.

Yes, I coined the phrase, "flash populations." And you are there...