Ogre or Gnome?!

[Tecmos Deception]

Well, as I work on building my "1 of every tank + 1 ranger" account to completion (9 erudite paladin, 36 ogre sk, and 24 human ranger so far!), I'm starting to think I want to make the warrior for the account soon. But I'm quite torn on what race.

On the one hand, ogres are immune to frontal stuns. And after starting this account with the ogre SK, and then doing the erudite pally and human ranger, I have concluded that I would rather have my balls cut off IRL than spend 60 levels getting constantly bash stunned. However, my intense hatred of stuns might be partly due to the fact that I often fight multiples with these twinks, and those mobs tend to be near or above my character's level, and the those two characters also are trying to cast spells frequently... so maybe as I level up and I more often deal with just 1 mob at a time and that 1 mob misses more of its bashes and I'm on a warrior, it won't be so bad? I also FEEL (but certainly don't know) like ogres have a better melee reach than the lesser races? Certainly seems easier to stay in range of fleeing mobs on my SK than it does my ranger.

On the other hand, gnomes. Ya heard? Gnomes. Gnome warriors are less common on p99 than erudite paladins. Gnome warriors have incredibly godly Velious armor models. And Velious gear, even for a fella like me who plays a shitload but doesn't do hardcore raiding, will do a nice job I think, compensating for a gnome's less-than-ideal stats. But yeah, they get stunned by bash and they maybe have melee reach issues?


:confused:

[Estu]

I don't think frontal melee stun immunity and melee reach are so huge for warriors that it should preclude you from rolling whatever race you'd enjoy most. Rallos Zek-worshipping Halfling warrior is the way to go, though.

[kaev]

Well, as I work on building my "1 of every tank + 1 ranger" account to completion (9 erudite paladin, 36 ogre sk, and 24 human ranger so far!), I'm starting to think I want to make the warrior for the account soon. But I'm quite torn on what race.

On the one hand, ogres are immune to frontal stuns. And after starting this account with the ogre SK, and then doing the erudite pally and human ranger, I have concluded that I would rather have my balls cut off IRL than spend 60 levels getting constantly bash stunned. However, my intense hatred of stuns might be partly due to the fact that I often fight multiples with these twinks, and those mobs tend to be near or above my character's level, and the those two characters also are trying to cast spells frequently... so maybe as I level up and I more often deal with just 1 mob at a time and that 1 mob misses more of its bashes and I'm on a warrior, it won't be so bad? I also FEEL (but certainly don't know) like ogres have a better melee reach than the lesser races? Certainly seems easier to stay in range of fleeing mobs on my SK than it does my ranger.

On the other hand, gnomes. Ya heard? Gnomes. Gnome warriors are less common on p99 than erudite paladins. Gnome warriors have incredibly godly Velious armor models. And Velious gear, even for a fella like me who plays a shitload but doesn't do hardcore raiding, will do a nice job I think, compensating for a gnome's less-than-ideal stats. But yeah, they get stunned by bash and they maybe have melee reach issues?


:confused:

Don't think the rarity bit there is actually correct, there are definitely a few gnomophiles around. If you want rare/unique, I have yet to see a female wood elf warrior (never saw one on live either.) Plenty female woody druids & rangers, of course, and the occasional rogue, but not seen a warrior.

[Beaniron]

Most druids are halfling. Guess people REALLY like that 10% exp bonus.

[Tecmos Deception]

I don't think frontal melee stun immunity and melee reach are so huge for warriors that it should preclude you from rolling whatever race you'd enjoy most. Rallos Zek-worshipping Halfling warrior is the way to go, though.

I always pick what I want. I just am asking for help deciding which of these two I really want more! Like I said, I'd rather be a enuch than spend 60 levels getting bashstunned. But gnomes!

[Tecmos Deception]

Don't think the rarity bit there is actually correct, there are definitely a few gnomophiles around. If you want rare/unique, I have yet to see a female wood elf warrior (never saw one on live either.) Plenty female woody druids & rangers, of course, and the occasional rogue, but not seen a warrior.

http://p1999pop.dmsimard.com/details/Classes/warrior

Droppin dat data on you.

Besides, I obviously am not making my decision based solely on rarity.

[Faerie]

If I were you, I'd go gnome. It's annoying being a large race (from what I'm told), and ogre warriors are so overdone. Gnomes can see through walls, are cute/pocket-sized, can pick interesting religions (I'd go Bertox!) and are beloved by all.

I was thinking about making a warrior too, and decided on Iksar for forage and regen. Don't underestimate the power of forage on a character without mana.

[Tecmos Deception]

Most druids are halfling. Guess people REALLY like that 10% exp bonus.

Racial sneak!

[Honest]

Dwarven Barrel Roll pretty much wins.

[Tecmos Deception]

I was thinking about making a warrior too, and decided on Iksar for forage and regen. Don't underestimate the power of forage on a character without mana.

Dwarven Barrel Roll pretty much wins.

The decision is between being big, buff, and immune to stun or being little, awesome-looking in Velious, and rare. I don't wanna have to buy an AoN so that I don't puke every time I watch myself swing a sword or have to be attracted to beareded women.

[Faerie]

Yeah, dwarves are always a terrible choice. Since you're decided on either gross, ugly, stupid ogre or intelligent, awesome, unique gnome, your choice is pretty easy imo.

Hard part now is picking deity. Agnostic (boring), Rallos or Bertoxxulous.

[KotBK]

Only problem with Gnome over Ogre (or any large race) in the essence of "effectiveness" going through your levels is that you will most likely hate not being able to interrupt spell casters. On the gnome you will be able to stun/interrupt (which also helps with aggro/hate) at lvl 55 when kick gets that innate ability, but on the way there it may get frustrating to rely on others to help you avoid getting casted on. Yes, there is mob push but lets face it that isn't always utilized in all situations during lower levels. Plus again, another component being lacked to help with aggro kind of sucks as a warrior on this server at this point when there are twinks everywhere aiding the faster more effective hate generating methods of other classes.

The aggro thing can be overcome, just your mention of being stunned causing anger could also yield the same result for you not being able to stop casting.

[Faerie]

Only problem with Gnome over Ogre (or any large race) in the essence of "effectiveness" going through your levels is that you will most likely hate not being able to interrupt spell casters. On the gnome you will be able to stun/interrupt (which also helps with aggro/hate) at lvl 55 when kick gets that innate ability, but on the way there it may get frustrating to rely on others to help you avoid getting casted on. Yes, there is mob push but lets face it that isn't always utilized in all situations during lower levels. Plus again, another component being lacked to help with aggro kind of sucks as a warrior on this server at this point when there are twinks everywhere aiding the faster more effective hate generating methods of other classes.

...But, on the other hand, gnomes are ruled by a robot king!

[Tecmos Deception]

Only problem with Gnome over Ogre (or any large race) in the essence of "effectiveness" going through your levels is that you will most likely hate not being able to interrupt spell casters. On the gnome you will be able to stun/interrupt (which also helps with aggro/hate) at lvl 55 when kick gets that innate ability, but on the way there it may get frustrating to rely on others to help you avoid getting casted on. Yes, there is mob push but lets face it that isn't always utilized in all situations during lower levels. Plus again, another component being lacked to help with aggro kind of sucks as a warrior on this server at this point when there are twinks everywhere aiding the faster more effective hate generating methods of other classes.

The aggro thing can be overcome, just your mention of being stunned causing anger could also yield the same result for you not being able to stop casting.

It's annoying, but when soloing I'll just be picking on mobs that can't cast mostly anyway, and in groups I've got a group to rely on for stuns.

Can't a warrior who is tanking (and so almost certainly dual-wielding) just swap in a shield in offhand to hit bash (assuming he hasn't been putting it on cooldown by kicking regularly) and then put the wep back in?

[Tecmos Deception]

Hmm. The deciding factor might be attack animations... lol.

[Faerie]

Can't a warrior who is tanking (and so almost certainly dual-wielding) just swap in a shield in offhand to hit bash (assuming he hasn't been putting it on cooldown by kicking regularly) and then put the wep back in?

Only if they want to. Most warriors don't seem to consider this option, because they never played as bards I think.

[Splorf22]

Math for the min/maxing: let's say a mob gets its secondary attack every 8 seconds, bashes 3/4 of the time instead of kicking, hits 2/3 of the time, and gets a 2 second stun 1/2 of the time. That means 2 seconds of stun out of every 32. Now let's say that you are using two weapons with 20 delay and 100% haste. In this case bash will cost you 1.5 seconds of attacking on average (if you are bashed 0.1 after your swing, you'll only miss 1 attack round, if 0.1 before your swing you'll miss two, on average 1.5). 1.5/32 = 0.047 so bashing costs you approximately 5% of your damage/aggro while tanking.

To put that in perspective, according to my sperglord warrior aggro calculator (at 60/100% haste/255 dex, units are hate/second):

Iksar with Howling Cutlass/Veridix: 65
Ogre with Black Blade/Ringed Mace: 64
Iksar with Black Blade/Ringed Mace: 61
Ogre with Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip: 58
Iksar with Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip: 55

So it definitely makes a difference, although I don't think its as important as for a hybrid (god I wish I could roll Ogre Bard). That being said, for main tanking bosses in Kunark aggro is completely irrelevant as you can just mallet, and HP is borderline irrelevant because the fights are so short cleric mana is not an issue. After Nilbog removes dragons wielding weapons (no more quadding Hosh, thank god) and nerfs the Bee/Eye 5khp/1100AC buffed (i.e. relatively easy stats for any warrior), 2 clerics, and a fully charged mallet should be enough to tank anything in Kunark.

In Velious with 5-10 minute fights warrior mitigation and cleric mana will be much more important. Iksar are going to have +35AC over all other races, which is the equivalent of maybe 250HP, so about 5% defensively. Personally I'd rather have that; in my experience Sakuragi can hold aggro pretty well with his VP weapons. But maybe the 2k Wizard nukes will be crazy threat, I don't know.

That being said, I'd go gnome. Gnomes are just awesome!

[kaev]

Only problem with Gnome over Ogre (or any large race) in the essence of "effectiveness" going through your levels is that you will most likely hate not being able to interrupt spell casters. On the gnome you will be able to stun/interrupt (which also helps with aggro/hate) at lvl 55 when kick gets that innate ability, but on the way there it may get frustrating to rely on others to help you avoid getting casted on. Yes, there is mob push but lets face it that isn't always utilized in all situations during lower levels. Plus again, another component being lacked to help with aggro kind of sucks as a warrior on this server at this point when there are twinks everywhere aiding the faster more effective hate generating methods of other classes.

The aggro thing can be overcome, just your mention of being stunned causing anger could also yield the same result for you not being able to stop casting.

Ghetto bash isn't actually hard to do when dual wielding. Shield on cursor, off-hand slot in one spot of command window (whatever it's called, the 10-slot window that is hotkeyed to the number keys), click to swap shield in / press bash hotkey / click to swap shield out, takes maybe half-a-second with a little practice. It can get somewhat :BennyHill: with unsnared feared mobs until you've learned good "don't left click shit with an item on your cursor" discipline, but otherwise not tough to manage at all.

(BTW, I learned about ghetto bash back in the early days reading commentary & advice written by a gnome warrior, heh.)

[KotBK]

yeah it is doable to execute that, not saying it wasn't but just adds another tedious thing to do that isn't necessary from one race to the other is all. Given that swapping can also effect dps and hate generation over time. Regardless playing what you want is always the overall deciding factor, whichever has more pro's than con's to the individual for whichever reasoning they decide should win out.

[Asap]

A bit off-topic, but It's quite hilarious that you roll characters that are best utilized in group settings and end up soloing with them. To each his own :)

[Tecmos Deception]

A bit off-topic, but It's quite hilarious that you roll characters that are best utilized in group settings and end up soloing with them. To each his own :)

I actually make classes that are supposed to be in groups because I WANT to group. I like the "group dynamic" in this game, I love it really. I KNOW that almost any combination of classes can work marvelously well together. But my desire to group is usually overridden because stuff like the examples below happen all too frequently:

Dude wants to group with me, I say sure let's give it a shot, he joins the group then says "hey I'll be back in a bit, I gotta go do some RL stuff" and proceeds to afk for 10 minutes. Dude grouping with me regularly sticks minute-long dots on mobs that will be dead within a tick or two, and even ended up casting a minute-long dot on a corpse once. Dude grouping with me is a caster but never sits to med. Etc.

I want to group, but not as much as I do NOT want to group with people that do crap like this. Don't accept an invite if you're gonna go afk for 10 minutes, or at least drop so I'm not powerleveling you. Don't do crazily inefficient stuff like dotting corpses, especially after I gently point out how incredibly dumb that is and make suggestions for other things that can be done instead. And so on.


Fortunately for me I'm twinking the hell out of my melees so that I'm not SOL when it proves impossible to find another decent player (or more) to group with.

[Splorf22]

A bit off-topic, but It's quite hilarious that you roll characters that are best utilized in group settings and end up soloing with them. To each his own :)

I know I personally have a rep as a bit soloer due to the solo artist challenge but really I prefer duos and trios. Had two really good ones recently: on my Bard I duoed the Sol B royals with Kalmy (48 paladin) and then trio with Koston (43 monk), and then on Kazmeir I did HS north with Halmir (59 cleric) and Crazyeyes on his 56 enchanter.

[webrunner5]

Do not, I repeat, do not make a Gnome Warrior. I had one and they suck. Not what you would think suck means. They are TOO SHORT to see over the rest of the group to even find the mob. Your job is to get agro. Well guess what if you can't see or find the mob, or one that is behind another mob you suck, and suck big time.

Don't do it, you will be sorry in both ways. Sorry for picking a Gnome, and sorry as a Warrior. :eek:

[Tecmos Deception]

Do not, I repeat, do not make a Gnome Warrior. I had one and they suck. Not what you would think suck means. They are TOO SHORT to see over the rest of the group to even find the mob. Your job is to get agro. Well guess what if you can't see or find the mob, or one that is behind another mob you suck, and suck big time.

Don't do it, you will be sorry in both ways. Sorry for picking a Gnome, and sorry as a Warrior. :eek:

Yeah, I've considered this. The higher camera angle of large races is a big positive when you're a melee imo. And you can always "fix" being too big with some shrink pots, whereas you can't "fix" being too small without an expensive/no drop illusion item.

[Luchino]

All races will have good unbuffed stats in velious bc the quest loot is great. Do you wanna be short and awesome or fat and awesome?

[Samoht]

Rallos Zek-worshipping Halfling warrior is the way to go, though.

agreed. can wear human/rz cultural, dorf enchanted cultural, and has racial sneak.

I have yet to see a female wood elf warrior (never saw one on live either.)

MT in my guild on live was female wood elf warrior. she'd always forage extra stuff and give it to me. i was lake "d'awwwwwwwe"

but on the way there it may get frustrating to rely on others to help you avoid getting casted on.

switch in shield. click bash. done.

Dude grouping with me regularly sticks minute-long dots on mobs that will be dead within a tick or two, and even ended up casting a minute-long dot on a corpse once.

weren't you just correcting me about this the other day when you insisted necros were misunderstood...

tl;dr: halfling.

[Estu]

Haha, I was actually endorsing halflings due to the idea of a Zek-worshipping halfling warrior being awesome, more than actual gameplay advantages. But you bring up some good points.

[lecompte]

That being said, I'd go gnome. Gnomes are just awesome!

Seconded.

[kaev]

That being said, I'd go gnome. Gnomes are just awesome!

Seconded.

Well yeah, but Flickker isn't a warrior. Just sayin...

[lecompte]

She has one named Flickked. Level 60 with epics, she tries not to use it cause it makes Peekae, Zoom, and Malicee cry.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'm like mostly decided on an ogre, 75% because of stun immunity and 25% because of being big. Haven't quite motivated myself to make it yet, but it's "only" going to cost me like 40-50k beyond the gear I already have for my ranger, shadowknight, and paladin... so it's only a matter of time before I try it out!

Being a super rare gnome warrior is still appealing though...

[Faerie]

Does the world really need another ogre warrior?

[Faerie]

Gnome warriors so rare their newbie note turn-in quest is broken still:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=991882#post991882

Now ask yourself, once more:

Does the world really need another ogre warrior?

[Tecmos Deception]

Does the world really need another ogre warrior?

Of course not. But it doesn't need another gnome warrior either, and I usually don't let "the world" make decisions for me anyways! My ranger is still fun atm though, and the warrior won't get leveled (both the gnome and ogre versions of him are already made and sitting on my rangershadowknightpaladinwarrior account already!) without several of pieces of gear the ranger is currently putting to good use!

[Nirgon]

But I'm quite torn on what race.


Iksar bro.

Iksar.

Great excuse to raise smithing on him (now that shit is classic, smithing on a warrior) and do the Trooper Scale quests.

You won't regret it and min/max doesn't seem to be your chief concern (although in Velious you will be MIGHTY nasty).

[mrmop520]

My advice, from someone who just leveled at war to 60--Go halfling!! Sneak is so incredibly useful-- you can single pull many camps, you can tag off a monk perfectly. Not even mentioning Hide, aswell as XP bonus. I had played a gnome war before.. and i find it much easier to navigate/ see as MT as halfling than i did as gnome, they just too dam small!

[Graahle]

Troll or nothing.

[Samoht]

halflings can still do velium vapors/coldain rings while KoS if you position yourself properly, too

[Widan]

What are you supposed to wear on an iksar warrior before velious?

[lecompte]

Clean underwear, backwards so the tail sticks out the fly.

[Nirgon]

What are you supposed to wear on an iksar warrior before velious?

A few of the ragefire pieces should work (not all), fungi, kylong war armor, trooper scale, sky quested pieces are good..

[pharmakos]

A few of the ragefire pieces should work (not all), fungi, kylong war armor, trooper scale, sky quested pieces are good..

also sebilite scale

[webrunner5]

Clean underwear, backwards so the tail sticks out the fly.

That is funny as hell. :D:D

[Splorf22]

What are you supposed to wear on an iksar warrior before velious?

Everything that Sakuragi is wearing on my magelo profile. Also I agree that Halflings are a fun choice. They have surprisingly good stats, an xp bonus, and some nice abilities. Ultimately ogres (and Velious Iksars) will edge out but w/e.

[Vadd]

WOOD ELF!

[Cords]

I think The Gnome is the the way to go. Get growth pots or have shammy in your pocket, and you will be half ogreish size :P I think they look the best as tanks, with those huge weapons in the little hands. er

[Arteker]

Everything that Sakuragi is wearing on my magelo profile. Also I agree that Halflings are a fun choice. They have surprisingly good stats, an xp bonus, and some nice abilities. Ultimately ogres (and Velious Iksars) will edge out but w/e.

at high end ac is caped so iksar natural ac boost doesnt add so much.

[pharmakos]

at high end ac is caped so iksar natural ac boost doesnt add so much.

*wearable* AC is capped. i believe that Iksar's natural AC boost works even with wearable AC capped. can anyone confirm?

[Arteker]

*wearable* AC is capped. i believe that Iksar's natural AC boost works even with wearable AC capped. can anyone confirm?

nah , doesnt work, is like Worn rege from racial it doesnt break the cap , was very same reason at high end velious human monk and a iksar would have both same worn rege