The Decision 2013: Ench or Nec

[dscar23]

Since I consider my level of importance akin to LeBron James, I thought it only fitting to make a post with this title. Anyways I took a hiatus from EQ and I'm looking to return and debating between the aforementioned classes. I am experienced with EQ in general, so I know the basics of every classes functions, but only til roughly 40-45, as that is what my main was. Here's a little info about me:

- Have roughly 50k to spend on gear (any must have gear choices on the class you recommend would be great!)

- Have played a chanter to 30ish, can competently charm, only have experience to low teens on necro

- Looking to primarily solo so if you could tell me which class is the most efficient soloer, or which situations the respective classes excel at, that'd be great!

- Also may consider raiding one day (though if I understand how the raid scene works here, that may be out of the question) which would you say is funner to raid with or more valuable (assuming chanters)? I can understand why enchanters are with buffs, debuffs, but is there anything else they do? Maybe give me a typical rundown of a raid situation? (I've never raided on EQ).

-Lastly, could I get a general idea of the ench/nec population 40+? At times I do like to switch it up and group, and on my previous enchanter I noticed 20-30 range there was a substantial amount of enchanters.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

[Nagash]

- 50k will gear very nicely each class (actually you can geara very nicely one toon of each of these two classes and have ssome cash to spare).

- Necro charm work as well, if not better (not affected by CHA), as enchanters but only on undead. FD breaks it and you can easily find a circlet of shadow for an instant invis.

- Necro is great to chain "normal" mobs endlessly at a fast pace or hunt big named targets (although they may require some undead to charm). Chanty are one of the best classes to solo big nameds alng with shamy.
Utility wise: if shit hits the fan with a necro, you can FD (and curse when FD fails). If shit hits the fan with a chanty, you can temporise everything with mezz (and curse yourself for still having a lot to learn about your class :P)

- Can't really comment but I can easily imagine they are in the same boat:
-- You need one chanty per raid
-- Necro DoTs don't stack (in the sense that 2 necro can't put the same dot on a mob)
Once Velious is released (one day), I suspect necro will come in higher demand (mobs will have shitload more hp and DoTs will stack) where chanty will meet their doom with most raid mobs being magic immune

- There are lots of each class but both classes are great in group (well, if the necro player knows his class...) so who cares, play what's fun to you.

Nagash/Petitpas/Jinbao/Chilper

[Tecmos Deception]

- Have roughly 50k to spend on gear (any must have gear choices on the class you recommend would be great!)

- Have played a chanter to 30ish, can competently charm, only have experience to low teens on necro

- Looking to primarily solo so if you could tell me which class is the most efficient soloer, or which situations the respective classes excel at, that'd be great!

- Also may consider raiding one day (though if I understand how the raid scene works here, that may be out of the question) which would you say is funner to raid with or more valuable (assuming chanters)? I can understand why enchanters are with buffs, debuffs, but is there anything else they do? Maybe give me a typical rundown of a raid situation? (I've never raided on EQ).

-Lastly, could I get a general idea of the ench/nec population 40+? At times I do like to switch it up and group, and on my previous enchanter I noticed 20-30 range there was a substantial amount of enchanters.

Thanks in advance for any responses!

Opalline earrings, JCed neck/wrists/rings, crude stein, rod of insidious glamour, and you're already at like +75 charisma for only like 2kpp. You could get some more charisma with ishva robe, some seb shoulder item, incandescent mask, there's a head item ... siren something. That'd put you up at like +100 but cost an extra 10k probably. Pick up a goblin gazughi ring for instant, convenient charm breaks. Then look for hp or int in the other slots where you can't find charisma and you're good to go. No need to spend all 50k, might be worth your while to pick up some WC hats and spider nets and WR bags though.

Both necro and chanter are great soloers for xp. Necro gets off to a better start, like 1-20 at least. Chanters work decently at low levels but really don't come into their own until their 30s I don't feel, because of funny resist issues at lower levels and spells like tash and root and stuns costing such a large chunk of your total mana pool compared to using those same spells at higher levels when you have c1/c2. Necros can kill high-level nameds, but chanters OBLITERATE high-level nameds. Both have amazing utility, just in different flavors with an edge for enchanters except in the healing department, imo.

Raiding in the planes, necros are solid damage dealers with some cool pulling/CR tricks while chanters are CC/buffing/charming gods. In dragon/god raids necro lifetaps don't land but chanters don't do anything except buff either. Same for velious I reckon? Necros are twitchers often in raids, which is boring but important.

Chanters are one of the more popular classes overall, but there aren't too many of them. More necros probably than enchanters. Necros, unfortunately, are misunderstood by groups; they are very potent when played correctly (NOT throwing a bunch of long-duration dots on mobs that die fast or spamming ignite bones, YES using life transfers and root/mez CC/interrupts and pet while lifetapping and having endless mana). The issue for even a well-played necro though is that CC and healing are usually overly well-covered in full groups... so they are kind of left to do something not terribly efficient, like nuking.

[Splorf22]

50k is far more than you need to gear either class.

I think necros are a bit better at XP soloing. Both classes are using basically the same spells but necros can FD and self rez. Enchanters are much better at killing summoning mobs, but that doesn't really matter till 58+.

The 'default' for both enchanters and necros is pretty much buffbot; enchanters with haste/clarity and necros with twitch. In some situations Enchanters can dominate with charm; and some super pro necros are good pullers although really SKs are just better.

There aren't really that many 55+ necromancers. Enchanters are more common but they aren't exactly iksar monks either, and every group needs one so grouping isn't bad.

[dscar23]

Thanks for the info so far guys, really torn between the 2 classes. Like you said Splorf, as I've been buying some gear I noticed I'm going to have a ton of left over change, which is fine with me.

One additional question that popped in my head is: Are there any tricks to selling on a necro? Considering most places hate me, was wondering if I can do a CoS/FD trick or the skelly form to sell.

Please feel free to keep ideas and opinions coming, really just want a plethora of opinions to base my decision on. Thanks again!

[Widan]

I wouldn't spend money gearing a necro honestly. I basically naked leveled one up to 48 so far with 0 problems.

[Vexenu]

Skel form is indeed very useful for raising faction. For example, my Iksar Necro has killed a decent (but not ridiculous) number of Goblins and I can walk around and bank in Firiona Vie in skel form while being KOS without it.

[Malone88]

I play both classes (40 Ench, 30 Necro).

If you want to solo, Necro has so many more ways to
kill stuff vs. Enchanter, who is limited to charming.

FD is frankly awesome for soloing.

If you duo or group, I'd go chanter, but that doesn't sound like
what you want to do.

[Tecmos Deception]

If you want to solo, Necro has so many more ways to
kill stuff vs. Enchanter, who is limited to charming.

Well... necros can kill with spells+summoned pet, spells+charmed pet, or spells alone. A chanter CAN do all of those things too, it's just that their summoned pet and damage spells aren't as effective as a necros are... so it's not very efficient to do something other than charming with an enchanter. But it's not like a chanter can't farm a lower level zone with an animation, or nuke down a caster if need be, or whatever. Plus charming is so ridiculously effective in almost every situation that it's hardly a negative that it is the ONLY way a chanter is very effective unless you dislike the playstyle itself.

But yeah, overall a necro is more versatile when it comes to XPing because of more potent summoned pets and much more powerful damage spells.

[xCry0x]

If you are dead set on soloing i would do necro. It is a class designed to solo and at higher levels you can farm a good amount of content with relative ease.

If you like to duo/trio I would do enchanter.

Reason is.. Enchanter can duo incredibly well with clerics & shaman and also duo well with mages & necros. So if you are the ench you are the linch pin for 4 dif duo combos which are all more effective than a solo necro. You also can find groups fairly easily because every group wants clarity & CC + ench charm dps later on.

While necro can farm a good amount with relative ease enchanter can farm harder shit but it is a higher skill cap risk/reward pay off.

[Breeziyo]

-- Necro DoTs don't stack (in the sense that 2 necro can't put the same dot on a mob)
Once Velious is released (one day), I suspect necro will come in higher demand (mobs will have shitload more hp and DoTs will stack) where chanty will meet their doom with most raid mobs being magic immune

Nagash/Petitpas/Jinbao/Chilper

Can anyone confirm Velious being the expansion where DoT stacking was added? I was under the impression it was in Luclin.


Edit:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2002-2.html Found it. It was added in Luclin.

July 24, 2002
** Spell Stacking Changes **

We've made two changes to the way spells stack.

Damage Over Time (DoT) spells are spells that linger on the target
doing damage. Until today two different characters could not have the
same DoT spell on the same target. As long as one copy of the spell was
active any new version of the spell would not take hold. After today
the same DoT spell cast by different casters can affect the same target
at the same time. Also, if you cast a DoT spell on a target and you
already have that spell active on it, the spell will refresh. (Note: It
will not be possible to stack Lifeburn).

[billw134]

Some info for you from my limited knowledge & experience playing these 2 classes.

Necro: To just solo exp/level necromancers are easier. They also have their own line of mana regen at the cost of health. If going necro these days you have an advantage in the lich line of spells with the iksar regen to counter loss of health from lich spells.

Enchanters: they might not be the best exp soloer compared to a necro, but they will be able to conquer farming content that a necromancer could not. An a necro can do a lot of farming.

I think of it this way, the enchanter is the king of dungeon farming, and the necro is king of outdoors.

As to population there is a command you can type in that I hear shows the number of the class online despite anon.

/who all necromancer count
/who all enchanter count

At 2am EST I did a /who all necromancer 40 60 count and got 22 necs. The enchanter was 26.

My opinion: equip both with your cash and play them both to 60.

[Autotune]

Some info for you from my limited knowledge & experience playing these 2 classes.

Necro: To just solo exp/level necromancers are easier. They also have their own line of mana regen at the cost of health. If going necro these days you have an advantage in the lich line of spells with the iksar regen to counter loss of health from lich spells.

Enchanters: they might not be the best exp soloer compared to a necro, but they will be able to conquer farming content that a necromancer could not. An a necro can do a lot of farming.

I think of it this way, the enchanter is the king of dungeon farming, and the necro is king of outdoors.

As to population there is a command you can type in that I hear shows the number of the class online despite anon.

/who all necromancer count
/who all enchanter count

At 2am EST I did a /who all necromancer 40 60 count and got 22 necs. The enchanter was 26.

My opinion: equip both with your cash and play them both to 60.

Eh, enchanters are more powerful, but they also die more often and can't summon their own corpse nor rez themselves.

[Potus]

Necros are better soloers. Way more efficient, self-reliant, you'll always be pulling monsters and killing them. Feign Death is fantastic for when you screw up. The only time an Enchanter will rival you is when you hit 60 and you have difficulty killing things that are immune to fear (it's capped at level 55 because Sony hated Necros).

Can anyone confirm Velious being the expansion where DoT stacking was added? I was under the impression it was in Luclin.

Edit:
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches-2002-2.html Found it. It was added in Luclin.

Damn I thought it was late Velious they added dot stacking. Historically, Necros were pretty terrible for raids and only looked at as being mana batteries, there were a ton of urban legends that dot damage would poof raid corpses and that necro dots would push slow out of the available debuff slots on a monster.

[Vermouth]

I've played both from 1 to 60. Both can solo very easily and have great tools for when things go bad (Necro: harmshield/FD. Ench: mez/mem blur.) Both can kill pretty much non stop because it is very easy to med while charm/fear killing. Surprisingly I can kill things without actually taking a break to med longer on my enchanter than on my necro. If you hunt at the right spots at the right levels, charm lasts very long (even before level 39 charm) and I kill 2 mobs casting 2x tash, 1x charm, 1x root, 1x taper enchantment (my choice to break charm) and 2x low level nuke to finish the mobs. Usually I med to FM when it's time to break charm and finish both mobs.

If you choose enchanter, don't get too crazy about stacking CHA. I used to play with CHA over 200 then decided to experiment and I get the same results with ~140 CHA, the only difference being now I have 200+ INT and thus more mana to kill things.

Bottom line - Ench will have an easier time finding a group and you will get asked for Clarity a lot regardless if you are anon. Necro won't get bothered for much unless someone wants DMF or a corpse summon and those are requested far far less than Clarity. Both are easily in the top 3 most self sufficient classes, especially when you get your JBoots. And in my opinion it is more fun to solo on a necro than on an ench.

[Splorf22]

Necros are better soloers. Way more efficient, self-reliant, you'll always be pulling monsters and killing them. Feign Death is fantastic for when you screw up. The only time an Enchanter will rival you is when you hit 60 and you have difficulty killing things that are immune to fear (it's capped at level 55 because Sony hated Necros).

charm killing > fear kiting for both necros and enchanters

[Malone88]

charm killing > fear kiting for both necros and enchantersHow do enchanters fear kite without snare/darkness? Some
item out there I'm missing?

[Potus]

charm killing > fear kiting for both necros and enchanters

Given the lack of MR debuff and available undead mobs in most zones, this is a woefully dubious statement at best.

[jcmtg]

Did you see that reddit post where the guy had 300~ gnoll fangs and levelled 11 to 22? Think you can farm 300 fangs in like...4-8 hours.

Food for thought on starting a new toon.


Anyway, Enchanter all the way because of ease of travel.

You said you've only gone to lvl 30 and that's where it gets easy. I'm on red99 and I just sat at the misty thicket guard wall and solo'd to 40. There are 2 single spawn guards with no aggro wanderers that drop 11pp per kill every 6 minutes....uhhh score! necros can kill here too.

[pasi]

I did gnoll fangs to 24, but I thought it got nerfed since then.

There's better exp spots, but I wanted a spot where I could not pay attention and not die since I was more focused on other servers back then.

[Autotune]

Given the lack of MR debuff and available undead mobs in most zones, this is a woefully dubious statement at best.

he is absolutely right.

Reverse charm technique > every other method for xp (speaking of soloing).

Lack of MR debuff and undead mobs is a meaningless factor.

1) you don't need an MR debuff when grinding xp
2) there are enough zones with undead to solo to 60 fairy easily.


Obviously you can't reverse charm 1-60, but once you get to where you can do it, it should be the preferred method to level (and farm loot in some places).

[Splorf22]

Given the lack of MR debuff and available undead mobs in most zones, this is a woefully dubious statement at best.

So I had a long argument with Kental from TMO about this. In the end I agree that charm is not as strong for necromancers as enchanters. Necro charm is weaker without high cha/tash, and the marginal benefit is less when compared to a skeleton instead of an animation. Finding a pet really isn't a problem: there are plenty of undead in Guk, KC, HS, and Sebilis. The only zones without are Sol B and Chardok. That being said, I still feel that it is more efficient in groups to invest mana in charm and the resulting runes/taps than dots.

That's in a group; Necro charm improves greatly relative to enchanters when solo. First, your pet is not weaponized/hasted, which means your recharm with a 'slow' 2.5 second spell isn't as important. Second, charm only has to last long enough to kill the pet/enemy. Third, if you get in trouble you can tap up or even FD. I'd say for solo charm XP, enchanters and necros end up about equal. It's not as trivially easy as fearkiting, but once you get the hand of it it's a lot of fun (and profitable!).

[Autotune]

So I had a long argument with Kental from TMO about this. In the end I agree that charm is not as strong for necromancers as enchanters. Necro charm is weaker without high cha/tash, and the marginal benefit is less when compared to a skeleton instead of an animation. Finding a pet really isn't a problem: there are plenty of undead in Guk, KC, HS, and Sebilis. The only zones without are Sol B and Chardok. That being said, I still feel that it is more efficient in groups to invest mana in charm and the resulting runes/taps than dots.

That's in a group; Necro charm improves greatly relative to enchanters when solo. First, your pet is not weaponized/hasted, which means your recharm with a 'slow' 2.5 second spell isn't as important. Second, charm only has to last long enough to kill the pet/enemy. Third, if you get in trouble you can tap up or even FD. I'd say for solo charm XP, enchanters and necros end up about equal. It's not as trivially easy as fearkiting, but once you get the hand of it it's a lot of fun (and profitable!).

Actually, it's crazy easy.

Grab a pet.

Send him on a pack of mobs.

Pull pet back a tad so the mobs stack.

Root all mobs with paralyzing earth. (Keep track of your root order/time left)

wait until charm mob is low enough to kill with a single deflux

hit CoS

Finish HIM!

Charm new pet from rooted pack.

send pet on pack.

Reroot as necessary

charm from pack as necessary.

repeat

win

NOTE: The only time you have to fear for your life doing this as a necro is when you have a charmed pet and you gather your horde and you haven't rooted any of them. If your charm breaks then, it's very possible you could die. However, with buffs (rune!!!!!) and some distance, you can get off an FD before you're toast (unless you're unlucky).

[Vandamwtc]

Did you see that reddit post where the guy had 300~ gnoll fangs and levelled 11 to 22? Think you can farm 300 fangs in like...4-8 hours.

Food for thought on starting a new toon.


Anyway, Enchanter all the way because of ease of travel.

You said you've only gone to lvl 30 and that's where it gets easy. I'm on red99 and I just sat at the misty thicket guard wall and solo'd to 40. There are 2 single spawn guards with no aggro wanderers that drop 11pp per kill every 6 minutes....uhhh score! necros can kill here too.

What level are the guards here??

[Potus]

Actually, it's crazy easy.

Grab a pet.

Send him on a pack of mobs.

Pull pet back a tad so the mobs stack.

Root all mobs with paralyzing earth. (Keep track of your root order/time left)

wait until charm mob is low enough to kill with a single deflux

hit CoS

Finish HIM!

Charm new pet from rooted pack.

send pet on pack.

Reroot as necessary

charm from pack as necessary.

repeat

win

NOTE: The only time you have to fear for your life doing this as a necro is when you have a charmed pet and you gather your horde and you haven't rooted any of them. If your charm breaks then, it's very possible you could die. However, with buffs (rune!!!!!) and some distance, you can get off an FD before you're toast (unless you're unlucky).

Curious as to what you do on casters? Most undead mobs are Shadowknights, Shaman, Necros; it's pretty hard to deal with a group of them and not die -- especially because unlike live they cast pretty nasty spells here and have access to the full book.

Charm is great for solo'ing in dungeons and killing hard encounters (like in Guk) but in general the easiest/fastest way to solo 1-60 is fear/snare + skele pet. At least as I remember it on classic so long ago. I have been screwing around with fear kiting indoors on Red because it's empty (doing stuff that would get groups full of people killed in Unrest) and it's been hilarious.

[Autotune]

Curious as to what you do on casters? Most undead mobs are Shadowknights, Shaman, Necros; it's pretty hard to deal with a group of them and not die -- especially because unlike live they cast pretty nasty spells here and have access to the full book.

Charm is great for solo'ing in dungeons and killing hard encounters (like in Guk) but in general the easiest/fastest way to solo 1-60 is fear/snare + skele pet. At least as I remember it on classic so long ago. I have been screwing around with fear kiting indoors on Red because it's empty (doing stuff that would get groups full of people killed in Unrest) and it's been hilarious.

line of sight.
Range them (oor).

Screaming terror. Used to work anyhow, but think they funked with it awhile back so not sure how it is now. However it's short cast time usually would stop them from landing a damaging spell.

I'd completely avoid engaging large numbers of SK mobs for obvious reasons.

[jcmtg]

What level are the guards here??


The solo spawn is like 25 (blue at char level 29/30).

That took me to 35/36 until light blue.

The solo spawn up in the building is 28, took me up to lvl 40.

The 4 spawn in the middle gates are mixed, 24/26/29/29. I paid a lowbie druid to harmony the pack or I pulled 3 with charm, mez'd the green one, then double killed with inivis the two blue ones. Did that until 40.5 got bored, now i'm looking for a single spawn. Tried Oowomp, got some items, but he only gives 1% per kill (Level 40 is a hell level, but i still want at least 2% per kill). Plus oowomp required me to bring in the Ench pet and dual weild, buff, etc. The Misty guards, all i did was Nuke, Root, Tash. EZ.