the EVIDENCE that GOD exists is the FACT that EXISTENCE EXISTS

[r00t]

QED

[Nune]

in b4 likely nothing

[r00t]

how matter just poop itself out WITHOUT THE DIVINE

[Rhambuk]

Theres so much of this god bullshit I think its time we make a new subforum.

Conspiracies/religion/science

The majority of posts in the rnf forum don't have the slightest thing to do with everquest.

so post all of your religious/god beliefs in off topic, because much like the real world it has no place here.

[Hasbinbad]

because much like the real world it has no place here.
lol noob this is my forum, i say what has a place and what does not.

[Rhambuk]

lol noob this is my forum, i say what has a place and what does not.

Moderator hbb why do you allow harissons nonsense still?

[hatelore]

lol noob this is my forum, i say what has a place and what does not.

All hail <picture of you on cross> Hbb.

[hatelore]

dang it left out my <<picture of you on cross>> reference..

[Hasbinbad]

dang it left out my <
> reference..
that was God.
</picture>

[Hasbinbad]

Moderator hbb why do you allow harissons nonsense still?
harrison's antics please me.

[Rhambuk]

harrison's antics please me.

Then i'll simply have to learn to tolerate it!

[r00t]

harrisonraptorignore.gif

[Autotune]

lol noob this is my forum, i say what has a place and what does not.

I'll allow it.

[r00t]

thats a paddlin

[Vostok]

Theres so much of this god bullshit I think its time we make a new subforum.

Conspiracies/religion/science

The majority of posts in the rnf forum don't have the slightest thing to do with everquest.

so post all of your religious/god beliefs in off topic, because much like the real world it has no place here.

This post is so edgy I cut myself reading it

[r00t]

im god filled and hate free

[Kagatob]

im god filled and hate free

First half is a delusion, the second half is both delusion and lie. :)

[r00t]

nah man, reality & truth

[Kagatob]

Christian truth, just like "God loves everyone" and "Jesus saves".

[Eliseus]

Christian truth, just like "God loves everyone" and "Jesus saves".

Umadbro.

[Rhambuk]

This post is so edgy I cut myself reading it

Be careful you don't bleed out or you'll burn in hell for eternity, don't forget suicide is an unforgivable trespass. Regardless of how horrible "gOD" has made your life, there is nothing truly "bad" in the world they're merely challenges "gOD" puts in front of us to make us stronger....

During the hardest times of my life there was only one set of footprints on the beach, where was "gOD"? I think I saw him jet skiing through a ring of fire. At least hes having fun

[Eliseus]

Be careful you don't bleed out or you'll burn in hell for eternity, don't forget suicide is an unforgivable trespass. Regardless of how horrible "gOD" has made your life, there is nothing truly "bad" in the world they're merely challenges "gOD" puts in front of us to make us stronger....

During the hardest times of my life there was only one set of footprints on the beach, where was "gOD"? I think I saw him jet skiing through a ring of fire. At least hes having fun

Umadbro.

[Kagatob]

If we're mad you must be seething. :p

[Rhambuk]

Umadbro.

It's not my fault your "gOD" made me that way, take it up with it!

[Eliseus]

If we're mad you must be seething. :p

In my pants.

[Hasbinbad]

Eliseus, what does or does not go on in your pants has no place in RnF.

[Hasbinbad]

jk ofc it does obv~ lals

[myriverse]

how matter just poop itself out WITHOUT THE DIVINE
So... what pooped "The Divine" out?

And why worship poop?

[finalgrunt]

Define God.

[r00t]

supernatural force creator of existence that which will be what which it will

[finalgrunt]

supernatural force creator of existence that which will be what which it will

Existence doesn't prove that then. There is no link to any form of will.

[finalgrunt]

Some interesting reading for you:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=new-physics-complications-lend-support-to-multiverse-hypothesis&page=1

[Hasbinbad]

<object width="560" height="315"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mx2XUMeVNKI?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mx2XUMeVNKI?version=3&amp;hl=en_US&amp;rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="315" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed></object>

[kotton05]

http://t.qkme.me/3suibd.jpg

they exist, do you believe?

[Hasbinbad]

<object width="560" height="315">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mx2XUMeVNKI?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="315"></object>
Transcribed from this talk is an absolute gem:
Let me just tell you something.

For hundreds and thousands of years, this kind of discussion would have been - in most places - impossible to have. Or Sam and I would have been having it at the risk of our lives. Religion now comes to us in this smiley-faced, ingratiating way, because it's had to give so much ground, and because we know so much more.

But you've no right to forget the way it behaved when it was strong, and when it really did believe that it had god on it's side.

[Nirgon]

Go back to Reddit with this shit. Holy fuck.

[r00t]

Not watching any dawkins/hitchens/faggot videos

and that article just linked on the god particle just proves theoretical physicists are blowhards who dont know SHIT and god exists

[Kagatob]

Not watching any dawkins/hitchens/faggot videos

and that article just linked on the god particle just proves theoretical physicists are blowhards who dont know SHIT and god exists

Do you know what proof is? :confused:

[HasbinHarrisonMindHump]

Do you know what proof is? :confused:

Seriously, quit posting.

[finalgrunt]

Not watching any dawkins/hitchens/faggot videos

and that article just linked on the god particle just proves theoretical physicists are blowhards who dont know SHIT and god exists

These physicists sure don't know shit. I mean, we all know it's thanks to the holy books that Higgs Boson was discovered and we know so much about the world we live in :rolleyes:

As for the particule's name, try this: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/professor-higgs-speaks-out-against-the-name--god-particle---095113715.html#oNIhuBo

[Tanthallas]

Why are you all so fucking stupid

[finalgrunt]

Why are you all so fucking stupid

Wrong thread.

[r00t]

inner reflections harrison?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by C. E. Hitchens
Let me just tell you something.

... you've no right to forget the way it [religion] behaved when it was strong.

20th century notable for strongest secular shift since antiquity, most institutional murder ever

hurray

[Hasbinbad]

20th century notable for strongest secular shift since antiquity, most institutional murder ever
Non-sequitur much?

[Daldolma]

Non-sequitur much?

not really, your quote juxtaposes secular modernity with how horrible religion was for hundreds of years

20th century secularity just as bad, arguably worse

religious could just as easily say secular governments committed mass murder to enforce racial purity, used atomic weapons on innocents, murdered 20 mil in ussr, all in the past 100 yrs

we have no right to forget the way secularists behaved when they were strong

dum

[Kagatob]

not really, your quote juxtaposes secular modernity with how horrible religion was for hundreds of years

20th century secularity just as bad, arguably worse

religious could just as easily say secular governments committed mass murder to enforce racial purity, used atomic weapons on innocents, murdered 20 mil in ussr, all in the past 100 yrs

we have no right to forget the way secularists behaved when they were strong

This I don't even...

[HasbinHarrisonMindHump]

This message is hidden because Kagatob is on your ignore list.

Huh?

[Hasbinbad]

non sequituring
Yeah so you just mentioned a bunch of things religious people did and then blamed that on secularism.

InB4 you try and gotchya me with BUT STALIN WUZ ATHEIST HERR DERR, that fuck was a cult of personality deity-dictator who invented special science to support his regime and hunted down and killed anyone who disagreed with him .. that is not secularism, I'm sorry. If that's the best you can do, lol.

This is why it is a non sequitur, because you lay at the feet of secularism not only things that have been done in the name of god specifically, but also of crazy megalomaniacs. It does not follow.

[Daldolma]

Yeah so you just mentioned a bunch of things religious people did and then blamed that on secularism.

InB4 you try and gotchya me with BUT STALIN WUZ ATHEIST HERR DERR, that fuck was a cult of personality deity-dictator who invented special science to support his regime and hunted down and killed anyone who disagreed with him .. that is not secularism, I'm sorry. If that's the best you can do, lol.

This is why it is a non sequitur, because you lay at the feet of secularism not only things that have been done in the name of god specifically, but also of crazy megalomaniacs. It does not follow.

^ that's absolutely ridiculous

stalin's ussr, nazi germany, and 1940s USA were all definitively secular federal governments no matter what type of mental gymnastics you try to pull off. whether or not stalin was actually atheist isn't even relevant. secular doesn't mean atheist.

nothing you go on to say has anything to do with whether or not the state was secular. inventing special science, killing dissidents, being a crazy megalomaniac -- all well within the grasp of secular, as well as religious, governments.

you're more than happy to lay crazy megalomaniacs, special science, and political oppression at the feet of religion when it happens within a religious state. but when it happens within secular contexts, lulz not secular?

[Hasbinbad]

stalin's ussr, nazi germany, and 1940s USA were all definitively secular federal governments no matter what type of mental gymnastics you try to pull off.
Oh, I thought you wanted to have a conversation about reality.

Since this is a fantasy conversation, every monotheistic god is also a pedophile.

[Hasbinbad]

Definitively. lol.

[leewong]

^you're more than happy to lay crazy megalomaniacs, special science, and political oppression at the feet of religion when it happens within a religious state. but when it happens within secular contexts, lulz not secular?

Lol, I guess that's why every German soldier had the phrase "God is with us" (gott mis uns) on their belt buckles. Secular my ass.

[Daldolma]

kind of like our money says "in god we trust"?

again, not relevant. secular government doesn't mean atheist government

should understand the terms being discussed before using them

[Hasbinbad]

Should understand the difference between propaganda and fact before purporting propaganda as fact to people who know the difference.

[Daldolma]

propaganda is you trying to weasel stalin and nazi germany out of secularity and into the non-category of "political religion"

like people trying to argue the crusades weren't really about religion

you didn't even touch the fact that a secular us government dropped 2 atomic bombs on innocents

[Hasbinbad]

us government not secular.
nazis not secular.
soviet non-religion more parallels to religion than to anything remotely resembling secularity.


k lol.

[Hasbinbad]

including a god-king rofl

[Daldolma]

you don't understand what secular government means

us federal government is secular by any working definition of the term

so was ussr

nazi germany most complicated, but given binary option of religious/secular, clearly secular

secular isn't atheist

[Ahldagor]

that power system worked for a damn good while, then the pedo's came out of the woodwork

[Hasbinbad]

you don't understand what secular government means

us federal government is secular by any working definition of the term

so was ussr

nazi germany most complicated, but given binary option of religious/secular, clearly secular

secular isn't atheist
You're looking at sand and trying to tell me it's water. You're showing me this handbill that says uncle sam REALLY wants me to believe that the sand is water.

Just because "this country was built on principles of the separation of church and state" does NOT mean that there is - in fact - separation between church and state.

The difference between propaganda and reality.

[Hasbinbad]

We love democracy too, dontchyakno?

[Hasbinbad]

Also, I'm not going to explain to you why sand is not water. If you are truly as dumb as you're appearance (imho, you're devils advocating, can't possibly be that dumb), then I really have nothing else to say to you.

[Hasbinbad]

your.

shut up.

i was going to type "you're appearing to be" but then changed it and forgot to edit.

fuck off. :P

[hatelore]

your.

shut up.

i was going to type "you're appearing to be" but then changed it and forgot to edit.

fuck off. :P


Quit rage posting. Go outside, be productive. You can be secular or religious about it too. We won't mind... Really.

[r00t]

congress shall not respect establishment of religion has nothing to do with a courthouse displaying the 10 commandments, the police station having a christmas tree, or the teacher leading a prayer for a recently deceased classmate.

fuck you atheists

[Eliseus]

You know whats funny about Atheists. During my FFXIV 1.0 time, I had a friend that talking to me telling me how he is Atheist. The reason for this was because he doesn't understand why there is a God that would create so much horrible evil (which is funny because most people who try to use this as an excuse don't actually understand the purpose of God). So I asked him, "You believe in a God that would do this and that?" He responded with a yes. So then I asked him, "So you believe in God." He responded by telling me no. I was a bit confused since he was contradicting himself.

Point being, Atheists are stupid.

[Eliseus]

Also, that was the short version, but should be enough to get point across.

[Hasbinbad]

nobody cares about your dumb story

[Hasbinbad]

congress shall not respect establishment of religion has nothing to do with a courthouse displaying the 10 commandments, the police station having a christmas tree, or the teacher leading a prayer for a recently deceased classmate.

fuck you atheists
yeah and lobbyists serving special interest which serve corporations which profit churches which hire lobbyists is a thing that happens a lot more than someone getting upset that you're being uppity in your display of the fact that you belong to a desert-arab sun/blood deity cult built on the sacrifice of children

[Eliseus]

nobody cares about your dumb story

No one cares about your face, but I deal with it everyday.

[hatelore]

I wonder how many Atheist convert to Christianity or some other religion while they are dying on there death bed. Hmmm, something to ponder.

[Daldolma]

not even devils advocate, just don't like intellectual inconsistency

you're drawing distinctions that don't matter. whether the us and ussr and nazi germany were ostensibly secular or actually secular is as relevant as whether medieval europe was actually christian or just using a guise of christianity

if someone told you the spanish inquisition wasn't true christianity but was instead power politics operating under a guise of righteousness, you'd slap that shit out of here and rightfully so.

but then don't pussy out when atrocities happen in states that have claimed to discard state religion in order to operate on secular motives

hitchens is praising the secular shift of government that has allowed for freedom of religious (and anti-religious) speech. in the same breath, he's invoking the thousands of years of horrors committed by supposedly religious governments and stating that we should never forgive them for what they did while in power. if we're going to be even-minded, then we should talk about what else came with this supposed secular shift. have we rooted out or at least lessened the atrocities seen in less secular times?

no. atrocities continue on par with the worst of the past and supposedly secular governments have been some of the worst offenders. blaming religion is a cop out.

[Hasbinbad]

Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that the atrocities you mention came because of the secular shift in the same way that the advances hitchens mentions, which I dispute, and I have said why. Everything follows from that, which is false.

You accuse me of intellectual inconsistency. I accuse you of intellectual sloth.

[Hasbinbad]

The secular shift hitchens is talking about is within the scientific community, not within the dictator community.

[Hasbinbad]

Generalizations are a PITA tho right?

[Daldolma]

Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that the atrocities you mention came because of the secular shift in the same way that the advances hitchens mentions, which I dispute, and I have said why. Everything follows from that, which is false.

on the contrary, my entire argument is that the atrocities hitchens is so eager to ascribe to religion were not in any way diluted or lessened by a secular shift

i'm not saying secularism caused the atrocities of the 20th century. i'm saying a shift away from state religion and toward secular government did nothing to curb them. whether it was done for zeus, jesus, allah, the proletariat, aryan nation, or freedom didn't really impact the scope or magnitude of crimes against humanity

[Hasbinbad]

Oh I see.

Well why didn't you just say that in the first place?

Let me chew on that and get back to you, I'm kind of in a rush. Wanted to acknowledge tho.

[finalgrunt]

on the contrary, my entire argument is that the atrocities hitchens is so eager to ascribe to religion were not in any way diluted or lessened by a secular shift

i'm not saying secularism caused the atrocities of the 20th century. i'm saying a shift away from state religion and toward secular government did nothing to curb them. whether it was done for zeus, jesus, allah, the proletariat, aryan nation, or freedom didn't really impact the scope or magnitude of crimes against humanity

They all shared the concept of fanaticism. Every time some people came to the conclusion they were better than their neighbors for whatever reason they thought, it didn't end well.

[Hasbinbad]

on the contrary, my entire argument is that the atrocities hitchens is so eager to ascribe to religion were not in any way diluted or lessened by a secular shift

i'm not saying secularism caused the atrocities of the 20th century. i'm saying a shift away from state religion and toward secular government did nothing to curb them. whether it was done for zeus, jesus, allah, the proletariat, aryan nation, or freedom didn't really impact the scope or magnitude of crimes against humanity
ok so.

In my humble opinion: "people governing themselves without the overriding and overwhelming, pervasive and insidious nature of religion influencing every aspect of their lives" hasn't yet had it's day in court. We're still in the trasition phase. We've had possibly tens of thousands of years under the bondage of superstition, and the modern scientific movement to explain the nature of the universe in real terms is barely 100 years old, at the fullest extent of any rhetoric about what constitutes modern understanding. Religion still in fact holds sway in may places on earth. We haven't had a "shift away from state religion," but rather we are currently shifting. You claim that this shift hasn't diluted tyranny, but my friend, you're trying to dilute the ocean with a lake. It's going to take time.

[Eliseus]

ok so.

In my humble opinion: "people governing themselves without the overriding and overwhelming, pervasive and insidious nature of religion influencing every aspect of their lives" hasn't yet had it's day in court. We're still in the trasition phase. We've had possibly tens of thousands of years under the bondage of superstition, and the modern scientific movement to explain the nature of the universe in real terms is barely 100 years old, at the fullest extent of any rhetoric about what constitutes modern understanding. Religion still in fact holds sway in may places on earth. We haven't had a "shift away from state religion," but rather we are currently shifting. You claim that this shift hasn't diluted tyranny, but my friend, you're trying to dilute the ocean with a lake. It's going to take time.

I think this "transition" phase doesn't currently exist right now. Maybe it will one day, but considering majority of the U.S. population still feels that we need religion, we won't be seeing it for a while. Now, has this religious hold changed dramatically since the the colonization? Sure, but it's definitely still there, and is the majority (not even close to not the majority I might add) Sorry, just had to point out that there won't be any day soon that this "court" date you speak of will happen.

Also considering the constitution, it will most like NEVER make its day in court unless things in the U.S. are drastically changed, by that time, it will probably be the end of the World, so don't get your hopes up.

[Hasbinbad]

Modern science based skepticism has only been announced on the roster.

Like the man says, a number of years ago I'd be having this conversation at the risk of my life.

[Daldolma]

ok so.

In my humble opinion: "people governing themselves without the overriding and overwhelming, pervasive and insidious nature of religion influencing every aspect of their lives" hasn't yet had it's day in court. We're still in the trasition phase. We've had possibly tens of thousands of years under the bondage of superstition, and the modern scientific movement to explain the nature of the universe in real terms is barely 100 years old, at the fullest extent of any rhetoric about what constitutes modern understanding. Religion still in fact holds sway in may places on earth. We haven't had a "shift away from state religion," but rather we are currently shifting. You claim that this shift hasn't diluted tyranny, but my friend, you're trying to dilute the ocean with a lake. It's going to take time.

fair. my conception is different, but that's fair.

to me, religion is a replaceable red herring. most of the atrocities ascribed to religion were in fact driven by far more secular and cynical motivations. religion used to be a catch-all. it was nationalism, it was class warfare, it was racism, it was xenophobia, it was greed. in nazi germany, instead of killing for god, they killed for racial purity. 200, 500, 1500 years earlier, the same type of killings would've been primed in religious terms. stalin murdered anyone who opposed him. instead of religion, he did it in the name of the proletariat and the revolution. today, instead of screaming christ, we scream freedom or national security.

governments and people kill and oppress now for the same reasons they always have. religion is an easy rallying cry, but it's not a necessary one. if it's not religion, it's political ideology or racial purity or economic equity or nationalism

[Hasbinbad]

You don't know that. You absolutely do not know that, because the yoke is still on and we have not had a chance to try yet.

[Hasbinbad]

all of the current political ideologies are still informed by religious lobbyists.. you can't escape that.

[Hasbinbad]

and i am, by the way, absolutely not saying i trust people more than god.. if you haven't noticed, i am just as anti statist as i am anti religion.

[Daldolma]

i don't see how you can argue for both

if religion has been so insidiously and subversively pervasive as to manipulate every instance of modern government, secular or not, then how can you possibly condemn statism without first declawing religion? statism has barely had a chance; it has been doomed to failure from the start by the influence of religion

i don't believe that btw. every form of government we've conceived has failed and transgressed basic human rights. blaming religion is weak. people have been killing other people for money, women, land, power, etc in every society since time immemorial. it's human nature. you're blaming religion and government for reflecting humanity. we're a species that took a fledgling understanding of biology and turned it into eugenics and racial hygiene. we didn't need theism for that.

[Hasbinbad]

every form of government we've conceived has failed
You said it.

You have to understand that I see religion as a superstitious form of government.

[Hasbinbad]

But they have also specifically criminalized and morally outlawed behaviors and that needs to be addressed imho, to be called out for the charlatanism that it is, and also children are still being coerced into these cults, and that needs to not be ok.

[Eliseus]

But they have also specifically criminalized and morally outlawed behaviors and that needs to be addressed imho, to be called out for the charlatanism that it is, and also children are still being coerced into these cults, and that needs to not be ok.

Fuck off. If a parent wants their children to be raised into these so called "cults" then that should and will always be ok. I take it you aren't a parent. My child will and should do what I feel is morally right for him/her to do till he is old enough to choose do it his own. Considering that scientific evidence proves also that the brain full develops I think it was from ages 21-25, no, my children who will be confused from right vs wrong for most of their life will not be choosing to do whatever they so please.

So again, fuck you and your stupid opinion.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

how does one know that reason, has a design flaw, namely, it cannot reckon absolute origins or ends of any kind whatsoever?

That's some fine antinomy work there Joe.

[Hasbinbad]

that should and will always be ok
No it should not be, and no it will not be.

Inducting children into religion is child abuse.

[Eliseus]

No it should not be, and no it will not be.

Inducting children into religion is child abuse.

You're right! We should also stop disciplining our kids because it is child abuse! You are the reason why I've read about so many children lately in the news getting a hold of a gun and killing their fellow child friend. Bad parenting advice is bad.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

you could always turn up the clip plane, but still. We just cannot reason absolute orgins and ends. They do not make sense to how our minds work. Granted, a deep question, either regarding the absolute origin or the absolute end, of time, which means, existence.

Can you imagine a time in which nothing exists? In what and in relation to what would time then exist?

Can you imagine an entity that was not caused by something prior to it? If not, how do you stop the infinite causal regress?

Can you imagine an eventual entity that has no effect? If not, how can you imagine the end of existence?

We can do this all day, you know. That is why they are called antinomies.

Trust me: a chick sees you know what an antinomy is, bam, sex.

[Hasbinbad]

disciplining
why don't you stop with the coy euphemism and really own what you're slyly espousing here

[Hasbinbad]

sadre im agnostic for the record

[Hasbinbad]

i wont argue with someone about a prime mover, why would anyone?, but other than that it's all superstition

[Kagatob]

Fuck off. If a parent wants their children to be raised into these so called "cults" then that should and will always be ok. I take it you aren't a parent. My child will and should do what I feel is morally right for him/her to do till he is old enough to choose do it his own. Considering that scientific evidence proves also that the brain full develops I think it was from ages 21-25, no, my children who will be confused from right vs wrong for most of their life will not be choosing to do whatever they so please.

So again, fuck you and your stupid opinion.

So you're saying there's nothing at all wrong with genital mutilation. Noted, I'll keep any kids I have far away from you and your kind.

[Daldolma]

i think govt legislating what we can and can't teach children is a phenomenal idea that will end really well

[Kagatob]

i think govt legislating what we can and can't teach children is a phenomenal idea that will end really well

In taxpayer funded schools you'd better hope your fucking ass there is regulation in place.

[Eliseus]

So you're saying there's nothing at all wrong with genital mutilation. Noted, I'll keep any kids I have far away from you and your kind.

Fallacy of quoting out of context

The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy" or "quote mining", is a logical fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.[1]

Arguments based on this fallacy typically take two forms. As a straw man argument, which is frequently found in politics, it involves quoting an opponent out of context in order to misrepresent their position (typically to make it seem more simplistic or extreme) in order to make it easier to refute. As an appeal to authority, it involves quoting an authority on the subject out of context, in order to misrepresent that authority as supporting some position.[2]

Straw man

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

[Daldolma]

In taxpayer funded schools you'd better hope your fucking ass there is regulation in place.

he's not talking about public schools. he's talking about a parent's ability to raise their kid within a religion

[Kagatob]

Fuck off. If a parent wants their children to be raised into these so called "cults" then that should and will always be ok. I take it you aren't a parent. My child will and should do what I feel is morally right for him/her to do till he is old enough to choose do it his own. Considering that scientific evidence proves also that the brain full develops I think it was from ages 21-25, no, my children who will be confused from right vs wrong for most of their life will not be choosing to do whatever they so please.

So again, fuck you and your stupid opinion.

So you're saying there's nothing at all wrong with genital mutilation. Noted, I'll keep any kids I have far away from you and your kind.

I claim strawman after being called out on my own fallacy.

Please try again.

[Eliseus]

Please try again.

Straw man

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

[Kagatob]

he's not talking about public schools. he's talking about a parent's ability to raise their kid within a religion

"Teaching" invokes different feelings and tones then "raising within" which is why there is a common phrase "indoctrinating" as of late.
I apologize for misinterpreting the intent of the statement.

[Kagatob]

Stuff

You can scream "straw man" all you want, doesn't change the fact that you're trying to legitimize your claim while ignoring the entire picture.

I believe the phrase "Hey look over there!" fits here.

[Eliseus]

You can scream "straw man" all you want, doesn't change the fact that you're trying to legitimize your claim while ignoring the entire picture.

I believe the phrase "Hey look over there!" fits here.

Have you even read the definition? If this was a court of law, you would lose right now. The definition is EXACTLY what you did, and are still doing.

[Eliseus]

Let me break it down for you.


Straw man

A straw man or straw person, also known in the UK as an Aunt Sally,[1][2] is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position(WHICH YOU DID).[3] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition(AGAIN WHICH YOU DID) (the "straw man"), and to refute it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.(ALSO WHICH YOU DID)[3][4] This technique has been used throughout history in polemical debate, particularly in arguments about highly charged, emotional issues.

[Kagatob]

If this was a court of law, you would lose right now.

That's actually closer to a strawman argument right there. :)

[Eliseus]

That's actually closer to a strawman argument right there. :)

No it's not, you had no original basis to even base an argument off of to misinterpret or give some superficial argument.

[Kagatob]

You just don't want to take any effort to defend your stance and that's fine. What's not fine is that you repetitively use the same evasive tactics in an attempt to do so without acknowledging the implications of your statements.

You can claim straw man all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you are arguing raising children based upon your morals. We live in a culture that thrives on the very stance that you uphold and one extremely common example of such is the mutilation of genitals of newborn babies under the guise of "good hygiene".
You made the point that you will let them choose when they come of age yet they don't have choice in that so you conveniently ignore it and call straw man. You're wrong.

[Daldolma]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/health/aap-circumcision-recommendation

[Kagatob]

the American Academy of Pediatrics
Stopped reading at that point.
If you think American medicine has your best interests in mind you should save everyone the trouble and write a check of your entire bank account to Pfizer followed by shooting yourself.

[Kagatob]

Also CNN. lol

[Nirgon]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/health/aap-circumcision-recommendation


wanting junior to "look like dad."


lawled

[Eliseus]

You just don't want to take any effort to defend your stance and that's fine. What's not fine is that you repetitively use the same evasive tactics in an attempt to do so without acknowledging the implications of your statements.

You can claim straw man all you want, it doesn't change the fact that you are arguing raising children based upon your morals. We live in a culture that thrives on the very stance that you uphold and one extremely common example of such is the mutilation of genitals of newborn babies under the guise of "good hygiene".
You made the point that you will let them choose when they come of age yet they don't have choice in that so you conveniently ignore it and call straw man. You're wrong.

Makes it easy to claim what I want when it is fact. Don't try to justify your excuse for being an idiot as me just trying to scapegoat on "straw man". Don't try and twist what was clear out of my post to try and support your argument. You talk like I'm going around ripping genitals off of kids. Shut the fuck up. "You made the point that you will let them choose when they come of age yet they don't have choice in that so you conveniently ignore it". Before you try claiming you never said that.

You also talk about Gentile Mutilation like it is this normal thing that happens in most modern day Cultures lmao. Places that is frequently happens in are accepted among the culture, so yes, the parents would still have their say for it.

Now, if you are somehow trying to create some World Government that will control the thoughts of everyone and what they should and shouldn't do especially with their children, you are dumber then I thought.

Maybe go have some children and then come respond to me that they can do whatever the fuck they want. No wonder so many kids are ass-hat douche bags now and days. I hope you have some Gentile Mutilation to yourself to do us all a favor and not deal with some offspring from you.

[Rhambuk]

Stopped reading at that point.


My caregiver ( weed dealer ) was telling me today how 1. the american government accidentally created hiv by shoving all sorts of random virus's along with mercury to kill off the ones our body couldn't into inoculations and hiv was just to much. 2. the human body reacts to frequency waves and that we can change our genetics with the use of specific frequencies, some of these frequencies force genese to change and mutate causing cancer.

So much tinhattery in the world, im so glad i live in maine and most people are firmly rooted to the ground

[Daldolma]

Stopped reading at that point.
If you think American medicine has your best interests in mind you should save everyone the trouble and write a check of your entire bank account to Pfizer followed by shooting yourself.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3091271

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/prevention/research/malecircumcision/risks.html

if people want to snip their baby's dick in a way that produces no tangible negative impact and a few minor health benefits, who cares? might as well get uppity about ear piercings while you're at it, but that doesn't have the same shock value as a baby dick

it's abuse when it's harmful and/or malicious. circumcision is neither

[Eliseus]

My caregiver ( weed dealer ) was telling me today how 1. the american government accidentally created hiv by shoving all sorts of random virus's along with mercury to kill off the ones our body couldn't into inoculations and hiv was just to much. 2. the human body reacts to frequency waves and that we can change our genetics with the use of specific frequencies, some of these frequencies force genese to change and mutate causing cancer.

So much tinhattery in the world, im so glad i live in maine and most people are firmly rooted to the ground

Seriously man, I love some of the stuff you post. Make me ROFL hard.

[Kagatob]

I don't know what qualifies as genital mutilation

Is about all that made sense of your post.

[Rhambuk]

Maybe go have some children and then come respond to me that they can do whatever the fuck they want. No wonder so many kids are ass-hat douche bags now and days. I hope you have some Gentile Mutilation to yourself to do us all a favor and not deal with some offspring from you.

love waiting in line at the grocery store while the mother in front of me sits quietly as their 4 year old goes on a rampage throwing everything they can get their hands on the floor and just leaving it their, because its sets a bad example, while screaming and yelling obscenities at the mother. No joke "You bitch, I hate you, I hope you die, cunt.".

Seriously I watched a child call their mother a cunt in line at a grocery store around 6-7 other people and did nothing...

[Kagatob]

So much tinhattery in the world, im so glad i live in maine and most people are firmly rooted to the ground

It's not tinfoil hattery, I work in the medical field and I know a few people who work for Pfizer, even had a job offer once that I sort of regret not taking. You have no idea the influence of commissions given to doctors and how often it effects their decisions on whether or not to medicate their patients and which medications to give them.

[Rhambuk]

It's not tinfoil hattery, I work in the medical field and I know a few people who work for Pfizer, even had a job offer once that I sort of regret not taking. You have no idea the influence of commissions given to doctors and how often it effects their decisions on whether or not to medicate their patients and which medications to give them.

This i understand and believe is true, insurance agencies/pharmaceutical companies with their reps are taking us for a ride.

Did they create aids and cancer to keep us sick and going to the hospital? please...

[Eliseus]

This i understand and believe is true, insurance agencies/pharmaceutical companies with their reps are taking us for a ride.

Did they create aids and cancer to keep us sick and going to the hospital? please...

This reminds me of something I read the other day about chronic pain. I think it had to do with like 70% of people on pain killers are taking the wrong pain killers lol.

[Rhambuk]

This reminds me of something I read the other day about chronic pain. I think it had to do with like 70% of people on pain killers are taking the wrong pain killers lol.

lol thats awesome...well not really =p

[Kagatob]

Did they create aids and cancer to keep us sick and going to the hospital? please...

I agree. I never implied that it was the case though.

[Rhambuk]

yeah i kind pushed it =p

[Kagatob]

it's abuse when it's harmful and/or malicious. circumcision is neither

Yeah you keep thinking that, meanwhile every medical professional in any field directly or indirectly related to the consequences of such barbaric practices will vehemently disagree with you. Outside of the Jeudeo-Christian community of course. :)

[Kagatob]

This reminds me of something I read the other day about chronic pain. I think it had to do with like 70% of people on pain killers are taking the wrong pain killers lol.

Seems accurate.

Not two hours ago there was a nurse on the phone arguing with a doctor because the quack wanted to push a certain pain med regardless of the side-effects the patient was experiencing or complications it had with the other medications the patient was taking. The doctor eventually 'compromised' by allowing the nurse to suggest an alternative painkiller as long as the one they were taking that was causing harm remained as an "option for the patient".

[Eliseus]

Yeah you keep thinking that, meanwhile every medical professional in any field directly or indirectly related to the consequences of such barbaric practices will vehemently disagree with you. Outside of the Jeudeo-Christian community of course. :)

What? Anything and everything I've ever read has said circumcision is healthier then non circumcision for you. I mean EVERYTHING. I mean, I am assuming there is stuff out there that could say otherwise, but I'm sure the argument is not very strong if it is not really out there.

For some reason I just envisioned some kid going on a killing spree and blaming it on him being circumcised as a baby after arguing with you.

[Rhambuk]

it's abuse when it's harmful and/or malicious. circumcision is neither

[QUOTE=Web MD]What are the benefits of circumcision?

There is some evidence that circumcision has health benefits, including:
A decreased risk of urinary tract infections.
A reduced risk of sexually transmitted diseases in men.
Protection against penile cancer and a reduced risk of cervical cancer in female sex partners.
Prevention of balanitis (inflammation of the glans) and balanoposthitis (inflammation of the glans and foreskin).
Prevention of phimosis (the inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (the inability to return the foreskin to its original location).

Circumcision also makes it easier to keep the end of the penis clean.

Note: Some studies show that good hygiene can help prevent certain problems with the penis, including infections and swelling, even if the penis is not circumcised. In addition, using a condom during sex will help prevent STDs and other infections.
What are the risks of circumcision?

Like any surgical procedure, there are risks associated with circumcision. However, this risk is low. Problems associated with circumcision include:
Pain
Risk of bleeding and infection at the site of the circumcision
Irritation of the glans
Increased risk of meatitis (inflammation of the opening of the penis)
Risk of injury to the penis[QUOTE]

For a baby its not like they remember it so I wouldn't call it painful or necessarily malicious, but for an adult...

[Rhambuk]

eh never tried to manually type in quote brackets (read sig)

[Rhambuk]

Seriously man, I love some of the stuff you post. Make me ROFL hard.

oh i just remembered,

Humans used to live for hundreds of years, only recently have we started having shorter and shorter lifespans blame "the man in charge". He then went on to tell me that the bible stated moses lived to be 180 years old, that was his evidence.

[Kagatob]

What? Anything and everything I've ever read has said circumcision is healthier then non circumcision for you. I mean EVERYTHING. I mean, I am assuming there is stuff out there that could say otherwise, but I'm sure the argument is not very strong if it is not really out there.
A big part of it is about who's doing the study. It's the most commonly practiced surgical procedure in the country so you have a combination of the bias towards it dependent on who's performing the study grouped with the money issue (it's the most common surgical procedure practiced in the country) and finally the stigma of opposing such a sacred judeo-christian custom. You will be hard pressed to find anyone defending the practice outside of the US and Israel (though there are a few out there).
For a baby its not like they remember it so I wouldn't call it painful or necessarily malicious, but for an adult...
Yet the same people who ignore the psychological trauma caused to an infant during such practices because they "won't remember" (which is escapism for saying they don't believe they are yet sentient) are the same ones that worry about the rights of a "sentient" zygote. :rolleyes:

[Rhambuk]

(which is escapism for saying they don't believe they are yet sentient)

I certainly don't remember it and I don't believe i'm traumatized, not to say others don't have different experiences. Supposedly people remember everything, consciously or not, and its supposed to alter and change us...

[Daldolma]

Yeah you keep thinking that, meanwhile every medical professional in any field directly or indirectly related to the consequences of such barbaric practices will vehemently disagree with you. Outside of the Jeudeo-Christian community of course. :)

http://www.circinfo.net/socio_sexual_aspects.html

the vast majority of studies find that circumcision is either a minor benefit or has no significant impact either way. the WHO even recommends it for large portions of africa because it significantly lowers the rate of HIV transmission

it's only "barbaric" because you're a bigot, not because there's anything inherently brutal or uncivilized about a minor surgical procedure that produces minor health benefits and significantly preferred aesthetics in many societies

again, go bitch about body piercings. there are fewer benefits, more pain, and greater risk of complication. i have a feeling you don't consider a little girl getting her ears pierced barbaric though

[Kagatob]

I certainly don't remember it and I don't believe i'm traumatized, not to say others don't have different experiences. Supposedly people remember everything, consciously or not, and its supposed to alter and change us...

My point is since you don't remember anything happening when you were that young would you say with confidence that you were sentient at the time?
Do you believe you were sentient at the time?

[Kagatob]

again, go bitch about body piercings. there are fewer benefits, more pain, and greater risk of complication. i have a feeling you don't consider a little girl getting her ears pierced barbaric though

Again an unnecessary jump. Why would you compare the two?
Circumcision is almost always done to an infant who is unable to say no to such a procedure, granted there are parents who will pierce the ears of their infant daughters (a practice I also disagree with) but the number of parents who don't far outweighs that number.
Invalid comparison altogether.

[Rhambuk]

Do you believe you were sentient at the time?

I would have to answer yes =p

Haven't they found that trees respond to their environment (music makes them grow or something) wouldn't that make vegetation have some form of sentience being aware and affected. Those merciless fucking vegetarians!

[Kagatob]

Ability to respond to external stimulus =/= sentience. You can poke a paramecium and get a reaction out of it, it doesn't mean that it's sentient.

[Daldolma]

Again an unnecessary jump. Why would you compare the two?
Circumcision is almost always done to an infant who is unable to say no to such a procedure, granted there are parents who will pierce the ears of their infant daughters (a practice I also disagree with) but the number of parents who don't far outweighs that number.
Invalid comparison altogether.

what are you talking about? a significant portion of american girls have their ears pierced before they're 6 months old. a majority have them pierced before they're 10. they can't say no and it doesn't matter if they do. almost no girl waits until an age of legal consent

and circumcision is safer as a neonate or infant. complication rates quadruple for young children as opposed to infants. it's medically preferable to perform the surgery on an infant instead of waiting until they're old enough to give an opinion that a parent would disregard anyway

[Kagatob]

what are you talking about? a significant portion of american girls have their ears pierced before they're 6 months old. a majority have them pierced before they're 10. they can't say no and it doesn't matter if they do. almost no girl waits until an age of legal consent
After about 10 minutes of searching for statistics I gave up trying to find any statistics to back up your claim. The closest I came up with was a site stating that it's extremely common in latin-american culture to pierce girls as babys.
Regardless I've stated that I'm against the practice.
My girlfriend has 24 piercings and counting and she is against the practice of piercing a child against their will.
and circumcision is safer as a neonate or infant. complication rates quadruple for young children as opposed to infants. it's medically preferable to perform the surgery on an infant instead of waiting until they're old enough to give an opinion that a parent would disregard anyway
Do you have any idea at all what you're talking about?
Yeah asking a 6 year old if they want the end of their dick cut off while you've been pushing ideas into their undeveloped mind that they are "dirty" because they have it counts as consent.
You're just pitiful.

[Daldolma]

by the way, you're totally ignoring the plethora of studies that say circumcision decreases risk of HIV, oncogenic types of HPV, HSV-2, penile cancer, cervical cancer in hetero partners, phimosis, balanitis, and UTIs. randomized controlled trials show no clinically significant difference in sexual satisfaction or function between circumcised/uncircumcised.

depending on society, there can also be vast differences in aesthetic preference among sexual partners

complication rate is exceptionally low, and risks are very minor

basically, it's a minor elective procedure with a handful of mildly beneficial effects and very few risks. the only reason to get worked up about it is if you're an uninformed bigot, which you are.

[Daldolma]

Yeah asking a 6 year old if they want the end of their dick cut off while you've been pushing ideas into their undeveloped mind that they are "dirty" because they have it counts as consent.

um, no, it doesn't -- that's the point i just made. it's not consent until they're of legal age to consent, so what difference does it make if you do it when they're an infant or when they're an 8-year old? none.

almost no girls in america wait until they're of legal age to consent before getting their ears pierced.

it's a fine comparison. their 10-year old consent to getting their ears pierced isn't consent at all

[Kagatob]

by the way, you're totally ignoring the plethora of studies that say circumcision decreases risk of HIV, oncogenic types of HPV, HSV-2, penile cancer, cervical cancer in hetero partners, phimosis, balanitis, and UTIs. randomized controlled trials show no clinically significant difference in sexual satisfaction or function between circumcised/uncircumcised.

depending on society, there can also be vast differences in aesthetic preference among sexual partners

complication rate is exceptionally low, and risks are very minor

basically, it's a minor elective procedure with a handful of mildly beneficial effects and very few risks. the only reason to get worked up about it is if you're an uninformed bigot, which you are.

Your posting history only shows that your bias is anything but medical. I suggest you reflect on all of the garbage that you've been posting when it's been pointed out multiple times your sources are biased for a plethora of reasons. Particularly noteworthy when you resort to invoking for how it's an "aesthetic preference depending upon society".
If I cared what newborn-dick-sucking primitives cared about I'd be in a whole heap of trouble.

[Kagatob]

almost no girls in america wait until they're of legal age to consent before getting their ears pierced.

it's a fine comparison. their 10-year old consent to getting their ears pierced isn't consent at all

That's because they ask their parents for permission to do it because it's a body choice they want to make. Next you'll be saying the same is true about intact boys begging their parents to have their foreskin stripped. :rolleyes:

You're an idiot, please stop posting.

[Eliseus]

That's because they ask their parents for permission to do it because it's a body choice they want to make. Next you'll be saying the same is true about intact boys begging their parents to have their foreskin stripped. :rolleyes:

You're an idiot, please stop posting.

If it matters, I've never met anyone actually pissed that they were circumcised. Matter of fact, I've ran into more people that were pissed at doing it later in life then having it done at birth.

This is odd though, because in reality, I have never talked to any man about their penis.

[Kagatob]

That's a self-conflicting statement. It also lacks context as there are certain uncommon conditions where partial or complete removal of the foreskin does result in improved genital function. If I was born with a broken dick I'd be pissed at waiting to get it fixed too. :)

[Daldolma]

Your posting history only shows that your bias is anything but medical. I suggest you reflect on all of the garbage that you've been posting when it's been pointed out multiple times your sources are biased for a plethora of reasons. Particularly noteworthy when you resort to invoking for how it's an "aesthetic preference depending upon society".
If I cared what newborn-dick-sucking primitives cared about I'd be in a whole heap of trouble.

my sources are peer reviewed medical studies including randomized controlled trials, most of which were cited by the CDC, the WHO, and/or the NIH.

you have no sources because you're an ignorant bigot

[Rhambuk]

TNext you'll be saying the same is true about intact boys begging their parents to have their foreskin stripped. :rolleyes:


I really don't think thats too uncommon. Around puberty when males start comparing themselves to each other while trying to impress girls, when a non-circumcised boy sees that all of his friends are cut hes going to wonder whats wrong. with a little internet research he'll probably find that it provides health benefits and is sexually preferable( not my opinion but seems to be the common trend these days) and my ask his parents for a circumcision. probably not like a 10 year old gear begging to get her ears pierced but im sure if your willing to ask your parents to get cut your pretty set on it and willing to fight for it.

[Kagatob]

I really don't think thats too uncommon. Around puberty when males start comparing themselves to each other while trying to impress girls, when a non-circumcised boy sees that all of his friends are cut hes going to wonder whats wrong. with a little internet research he'll probably find that it provides health benefits and is sexually preferable( not my opinion but seems to be the common trend these days) and my ask his parents for a circumcision. probably not like a 10 year old gear begging to get her ears pierced but im sure if your willing to ask your parents to get cut your pretty set on it and willing to fight for it.

Doesn't happen. Just saying. When the genital comparison phase happens and the intact boy realizes he doesn't need lotion to jack off he's not going to want to add a requirement to getting off.
You'll disagree though.

[Kagatob]

Masturbation is evil, anyone who spills seed is a bigot

I just wanted to say it now because you all knew it was coming anyway.

[Eliseus]

My question is, who the fuck cares if a baby is circumcised or not. Being on a side against "forcing" babies to be circumcised is a losing battle, I know personally I'm glad I was circumcised and my penis doesn't look like some elephant dick, I'm also glad because I don't scare off woman every time I whip it out.

There is also scientific evidence from the evolution I guess you could call it, from a baby to "adulthood" lets call it, and guess what, they don't give a shit either, so why the fuck even argue that its messed up to supposedly force a baby to do it, as you know, seeing the pros as a parent, make the choice to do it after weighing the pros and the cons. Personally to me, from the research I did before having my son circumcised, the benefits looked better (I was going to do it anyways, but actually wanted to read why people do it).

[Daldolma]

oh hey, you can't respond to science so beat the dead horse of religion a little harder

[Kagatob]

My question is, who the fuck cares if a baby is circumcised or not. Being on a side against "forcing" babies to be circumcised is a losing battle, I know personally I'm glad I was circumcised and my penis doesn't look like some elephant dick, I'm also glad because I don't scare off woman every time I whip it out.

Speaking of unfounded biases. :cool:

[Daldolma]

by the way, you're totally ignoring the plethora of studies that say circumcision decreases risk of HIV, oncogenic types of HPV, HSV-2, penile cancer, cervical cancer in hetero partners, phimosis, balanitis, and UTIs. randomized controlled trials show no clinically significant difference in sexual satisfaction or function between circumcised/uncircumcised.

depending on society, there can also be vast differences in aesthetic preference among sexual partners

complication rate is exceptionally low, and risks are very minor

basically, it's a minor elective procedure with a handful of mildly beneficial effects and very few risks. the only reason to get worked up about it is if you're an uninformed bigot, which you are.

ps still waiting for counter argument based in fact rather than virulent bigotry

[Kagatobs]

ps still waiting for counter argument based in fact rather than virulent bigotry

Doesn't happen.
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[Kagatob]

ps still waiting for counter argument based in fact rather than virulent bigotry

http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/samj/article/viewFile/254/2144
http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/samj/article/viewFile/1811/2152
http://sti.bmj.com/content/84/Suppl_2/ii28.abstract
http://intactnews.org/node/119/
Just a few I could come up with after a quick google search.

It's interesting to compare which studies were conducted by americans abroad and which studies weren't. :)

[Kagatobs]

http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/samj/article/viewFile/254/2144
http://www.samj.org.za/index.php/samj/article/viewFile/1811/2152
http://sti.bmj.com/content/84/Suppl_2/ii28.abstract
http://intactnews.org/node/119/
Just a few I could come up with after a quick google search.

It's interesting to compare which studies were conducted by americans abroad and which studies weren't. :)

[Daldolma]

oh ok

would like to thank parents, friends, tunare, and modern science for this forum victory

will recall this moment fondly over next spicy tuna roll

[Kagatobs]

Your parents like god? Do your friends believe in god too? Tunare doesn't care about your god and modern science doesn't believe in god? Why do you post?
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[Daldolma]

Your parents like god? Do your friends believe in god too? Tunare doesn't care about your god and modern science doesn't believe in god? Why do you post?
I
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wat

[Kagatobs]

Why can't you comprehend what i'm saying?
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[Daldolma]

you seem upset

probably due to ugly penis and hideously mutilated girlfriend

you should try spicy tuna rolls, they are nice

[Kagatobs]

Why are you avoiding the topic now? I guess that means i'm superior.

[Daldolma]

of your 4 links, 1 is an opinion article and 3 are studies that show circumcision is either the same as uncircumcised or in some circumstances better

study 1: better if circumcised before age 12, same otherwise, no negative
study 2: better for HIV, modestly better for STIs, no negative
study 3: same for acquisition of HPV, better for spread of HPV amongst genital sites, no negative

and that's your idea of rebuttal. there are far more positive studies that show more significant benefits. but even your studies show it's either the same or mildly better to be circumcised.

[Daldolma]

why you think they run so fast?

aerodynamic

[Kagatob]

you seem upset

probably due to ugly penis and hideously mutilated girlfriend

you should try spicy tuna rolls, they are nice

Who are you replying to?
Did you http://www.project1999.org/forums/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=31738 yet?

[Daldolma]

i realized like 5 mins later

ruined my whole tunare and spicy tuna roll comment, now i will not look back fondly while eating spicy tuna roll

[Kagatob]

Also my girlfriend's adorable.
http://i01.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/622445671_1/New-Hot-6Boxes-fashion-body-jewelry-colorful-rhinestone-UV-stud-earrings-260629-260632.jpg

=/=

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/155843_f248.jpg

I'm not a huge fan of piercings either, doesn't mean it can't be tactfully done, even in great numbers.

[Kagatob]

plz say that is not your girls ear :( what white trash club did you score a quality 4 slut like that?

Is the second image adorable? Fuck no.

[Kagatob]

k and any chick with a nose ring should be burned on a stake too

Don't go to India.

[Kagatob]

I think nearly any body modification can be fine if done tactfully. Septum nose piercings for example are an example of not tactful.

[Kagatob]

The people that has those huge ass earrings that stretches their earlobes look so fucking stupid.

When someone who has a large gauge piercing in their ear removes such piercing they suddenly have vagina ears.

I still don't understand why any sensible person would want this. :confused:

[Kagatob]

Still slightly less stupid then the ones who think they can stretch from a 14guage to a 6gauge in a week. Ruptured ears are gross.

[Hasbinbad]

oh ok

would like to thank parents, friends, tunare, and modern science for this forum victory

will recall this moment fondly over next spicy tuna roll
1. get shit on by hbb.
2. hbb goes to sleep
3. idiots post a lot
4. ????
5. wins thread

[visage]

I love it when people argue opinions. It's like you realize even your scientific facts are opinions. The beauty of science is it always has room for error. Then again if your somoene who doesn't accept it. It is considered inaccurate anyway. So the reality is you will never reach a common ground with the entire world on something. Even if you did there would be to many variables. There for this argument amongst you chaps is nothing ,but a halarious display of children sucking eachother off

[visage]

Here is the one fact that will remain. Your human body will die eventually. Least until science can create immortality

[Hasbinbad]

http://i.imgur.com/g82dy3I.png

[Daldolma]

hbb i am better than you

[Hasbinbad]

better is a term i'm not attached to.

[r00t]

im #1

[OMGWTF420]

god is a crutch for those too weak willed to accept that the universe is beyond understanding and that we are insignificant specks of space dust in cosmological scheme of things.

OR

for those people too ignorant and small minded to think for themselves.

i dont need a god, book, or spirit to tell me that murder and stealing is wrong

[Daldolma]

god is a crutch for those too weak willed to accept that the universe is beyond understanding and that we are insignificant specks of space dust in cosmological scheme of things.

OR

for those people too ignorant and small minded to think for themselves.

i dont need a god, book, or spirit to tell me that murder and stealing is wrong

universe too complex to understand so let me tell you how it is

OR

god for people that can't think for themselves so think like me

makes perfect sense

[OMGWTF420]

universe too complex to understand so let me tell you how it is

OR

god for people that can't think for themselves so think like me

makes perfect sense

i never claimed to have the answers, all i said is that it is too big to understand, and that we would be awfully presumptuous to claim that we could, humans have been a part of this universe for what 125k years according to popular belief, compare that the to the 14+ billion years that the universe existed without us and yes i can fairly confidently say that we dont know shit

AND

did i say think like me? no i said think for yourself, instead of letting the doctrines and dogma's of bronze age religions dictate how you live your life

[Lojik]

“Forgive, O Lord, my little jokes on Thee
And I'll forgive Thy great big one on me.”

[r00t]

I never mentioned christianity

[OMGWTF420]

i never even read this thread, i learned long ago that reading threads beyond the title was pointless

[r00t]

I dint read it either olo good torll honeypot tho

[Hasbinbad]

universe too complex to understand
lol who said that?

we'll figure it out :)

[Hasbinbad]

This is neat.

[Hasbinbad]

Oops. This is neat: http://htwins.net/scale2/

[Daldolma]

lol who said that?

we'll figure it out :)

omgwtf in the post i quoted

and we already figured out 2000 years ago, now waiting for godless commie liberals to catch up before rapture

[Ahldagor]

why do people care about this so much?

[Lojik]

why do people care about this so much?
Don't know, but I'm sure I can think of more ridiculous things that many people care about.

For me it's like this- Belief in god is based on faith, and by that I mean "belief in something without sufficient proof." I know there are different definitions of faith but that's what I take it to mean. If you believe in God strongly you don't need proof of God's existence, nor should you desire to seek evidence. Some don't believe because there is no proof, and I for one don't believe there will ever be sufficient proof of God's existence. Trying to prove God's existence to these people is as futile as trying to prove he doesn't exist to believers.

To each his own.

[Rhambuk]

why do people care about this so much?

because those that care about religion cant stand the fact there are non believers. they cant just leave us alone no they have to try and save us. After having been tried to be saved so many times i meet most religious people with hostility because in their eyes, im not human im not good enough im just some lost pathetic soul thats less than human and will never be worth a damn until i admit god is real...

[Kagatob]

Oops. This is neat: http://htwins.net/scale2/
That is actually really cool.
because those that care about religion cant stand the fact there are non believers. they cant just leave us alone no they have to try and save us. After having been tried to be saved so many times i meet most religious people with hostility because in their eyes, im not human im not good enough im just some lost pathetic soul thats less than human and will never be worth a damn until i admit god is real...
Sums up my thoughts pretty accurately.

[r00t]

God is real

[Rhambuk]

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4816218431621441&pid=15.1

Photographic proof of santa's existence! wheres the picture of god?

[Hasbinbad]

omgwtf in the post i quoted

and we already figured out 2000 years ago, now waiting for godless commie liberals to catch up before rapture
dumb

[Kagatob]

http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4816218431621441&pid=15.1

Photographic proof of santa's existence! wheres the picture of god?

http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2010/363/c/0/buddy_christ_by_android3000-d35zdm3.jpg
Sup dawg. :cool:

[Rhambuk]

Sup dawg. :cool:

His grace

[Alawen]

Would hit.

[Rhambuk]

Jesus or santa?

I prefer a little cushion for my pushin.

[Hasbinbad]

Jesus or santa?
MOAR LIEK JESUS -=(A)(N)(D)=- SANTA, AMIRITE?