Hybrid Exp Penality In Regard to Groups

[Glorindale]

I know that my Dwarf Paladin takes a 40% hit on experience and as much as I don't like I have learned to accept it. However, last night a douche bag that will remain nameless refused to invite me to a group because of it. Now don't get me wrong, I believe in the right of free association/disassociation and this is not why I call said douche bag a douche bag. That is beside the point anyway.

How do you guys feel about grouping with hybrid classes, particularly with Paladins, in light of the drain we are on group exp? Does the Paladin's skill set offset the penalty in your opinion?

[astarothel]

"Are you a ranger? No? Come on in."

[Insedeel]

I'm not concerned with getting to 50 ASAP, I'm more concerned about having fun with the game. If you're a skilled player, and a good person, then I could care less as long as the exp bar moves in the right direction even if slowly.

Now if I had the option of 2 different tanks (one warrior, one pally, and I don't know either at that time, I may choose a warrior over a paladin because I don't mind faster exp, but if I know the paladin, and know them to be skilled, and good player I'd still take them over a warrior any day.

There is no easy yes or no answer that fits to all circumstances, so long story short ... It depends entirely on the circumstances, needs of the group, player, etc.

[Shannacore]

I'm level 50 so I'll take anyone.

[Aadill]

I'll take anyone.

There's a name for that.

[Aadill]

There's a name for that.

MY ONLY CHANCE :(

[Shannacore]

AADILL!

I thought we were frands : (

[Frankee]

As long as the group gels it doesn't matter to me. Been grouping with some slick bards that definitely made the killing and pulling speed well worth having them in the group, had 2 in the group actually and it was probably the fastest xp i had gotten since playing on the server.

I still don't mentally associate the class with the XP penalty. I'm more like, ooooh SK! I can focus on damage! oooooh bard, love the healy songs and buffs! :3

[Ripcord]

5 rangers and a cleric.. What now will the cleric lose some xp per kill? Shit it looks like someone devided by zero

[Ripcord]

Inb4 bad ranger joke

[astarothel]

You're operating under the assumption rangers would even group with eachother. There's your bad ranger joke.

[Haynar]

5 rangers and a cleric.. What now will the cleric lose some xp per kill? Shit it looks like someone devided by zero
You are assuming there are 5 rangers on the server?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Rangers are awesome. End of story.

[Kraftwerk]

Finish this line:

A warrior, a cleric and a ranger walk into a bar...

[Haynar]

Rangers are awesome. End of story.
How are rangers doing? They got stuff that need fixed?

[YendorLootmonkey]

I don't think our myriad of issues get fixed until Luclin w/AA. :P

[zs3000]

I wouldn't invite you either :D

[Ripcord]

The cleric tells the bartender, ill have the usual. The bartender days coming right up, and spawns a mob. The warrior jumps in its face while the ranger says oh no not again. The mob beats the war for a bit until the first heal, then starts smacking the shit out of the healer as the healer hits the floor the rangers root lands, goes back to war, cleric purple clubs himself and they all burst into flames as you lose the game. Hey at least I'm trying.

[Droxx]

Finish this line:

A warrior, a cleric and a ranger walk into a bar...

That line is already complete.
Finishing the joke, however....

[Ripcord]

I'm drunk

[proge48]

I'm not really rushing to level 50, however when I'm trying to level then I want to do it as fast as I can. so I will try not to invite people that slow me down now.

[mitic]

I'm not really rushing to level 50, however when I'm trying to level then I want to do it as fast as I can. so I will try not to invite people that slow me down now.

http://thesportsunion.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/bush-mission-accomplished.jpg

[Ruinous]

Part of the original experience for me was taking in all of the content from level one to level fifty. I personally could care less how slow my xp is moving, as long as it's going in the right direction. I'm here to interact with other players again, not powergame my way through to the cap.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Part of the original experience for me was taking in all of the content from level one to level fifty. I personally could care less how slow my xp is moving, as long as it's going in the right direction. I'm here to interact with other players again, not powergame my way through to the cap.

That's great... but if you're a hybrid, doesn't sound like you'll get a chance to interact with many of the players because the high percentage of min-maxers on this server will not want you in their group. Awesome.

[BeelzeBob]

I'll take any hybrid in my group, as long as they contribute something. Even if all they can contribute is self-depreciating ranger jokes.

[JxP]

I will probably avoid groups with several hybrids in it. The only way I wouldn't care is if I was already 50, or I was in the area for loot.

[Ruinous]

That's great... but if you're a hybrid, doesn't sound like you'll get a chance to interact with many of the players because the high percentage of min-maxers on this server will not want you in their group. Awesome.

I have still yet to hear a single complaint from fellow group mates about whether we invite a paladin/sk over a warrior. Personally, I'd still take the pally/sk over the warrior given the choice due to sheer ability to hold aggro on large pulls and "oh shit" moments. And RnF bitching aside, I'd say a good number of players feel the same or just don't care enough to avoid grouping with hybrids.

[darkblade717]

I know that my Dwarf Paladin takes a 40% hit on experience and as much as I don't like I have learned to accept it. However, last night a douche bag that will remain nameless refused to invite me to a group because of it. Now don't get me wrong, I believe in the right of free association/disassociation and this is not why I call said douche bag a douche bag. That is beside the point anyway.

How do you guys feel about grouping with hybrid classes, particularly with Paladins, in light of the drain we are on group exp? Does the Paladin's skill set offset the penalty in your opinion?

A properly played classic Paladin tank can add a hell of a lot to the group in the way of stuns. Once Velious comes out they will be null and void because a good portion of Velious mobs are stun immune.

[Striiker]

I have no issues with hybrids in my groups. The sad reality however is that there are a LOT of people out there who would avoid having these players in the group. Last night in unrest we had a Dwarf Paladin in the group. When he left and was replaced, there was a very noticeable increase in the experience gains. We were all lvl 24 or 25 (he was 24). The pull rate remained the same etc. I was surprised at the difference. I only noticed because group members were commenting about it. Many said they were going to avoid the hybrids when possible.. ( I don't share his sentiment)
Personally, I think the penalties should be removed. They were removed from live when people learned about how it affects group xp gains and they started avoiding the hybrids and racial penalty players. We see that happening here now and it's only going to get worse. I would play with whomever regardless as I am here to have fun. I want to level quickly at times but I ignore that and just play

[Grimfan]

I agree that they should be removed. I realize that this server is not made for our enjoyment but rather as a challenge for the developers, however I would prefer to be able to enjoy it as well, and this hybrid xp hit has really hurt group leveling, something that I feel is what true classic eq is about, grouping.

[mitic]

see it this way folks, its an accomplishment to hit 50 as a hybrid now! especialy since the server has been wiped and everyone restarted fresh...

....oh, wait...

[Datante]

see it this way folks, its an accomplishment to hit 50 as a hybrid now! especialy since the server has been wiped and everyone restarted fresh...

....oh, wait...

Keep in mind that it is now easier to level a hybrid to 50 than before, provided the hybrid is grouped.

Unfortunately, the 'experience stealing' aspect of this recent change will make inviting a hybrid to a group less desirable.

I leveled my Paladin to 50 in the first couple of months of the server being opened, and tackled the penalty myself by putting in the additional required time (mostly duoing with a bard). When I chose to play a Paladin, I understood that more leveling time would be required. However, by making a hybrid in the present post-patch day, one can mitigate the penalty by joining large groups...by sucking experience points.

This is hardly the same kind of sacrifice that one chooses to make if they were to take on the experience penalty by themselves (which is disappointing).

[mitic]

Keep in mind that it is now easier to level a hybrid to 50 than before, provided the hybrid is grouped.


ok, valid point. but, what about those soloing classes decked out with 5-10x the mana/health at lvl 1 soloing up their way to 50 in a fraction of the time they used to lvl up half year ago?

[Datante]

ok, valid point. but, what about those soloing classes decked out with 5-10x the mana/health at lvl 1 soloing up their way to 50 in a fraction of the time they used to lvl up half year ago?

Yep, I think that is unfortunate too, mitic--alt twinking will always be a problem on aging servers (especially with the aging process amplified on P99 where most of the population can zip through content). Though some might argue that twinking keeps the economy turning, by actively pulling platinum and items out of circulation when the twinks are retired (players quit entirely or simply get bored of a particular alt).

[mitic]

so while other classes can exp even faster than before, hybrids have been nerfed on exp AND arent willingly accepted in groups as they where before

just for the sake of being classic...

[YendorLootmonkey]

just for the sake of being classic...

It's not classic when in 2010 we know about the hybrid XP being shared across the group retrospectively and people are making grouping decisions based on it.

This is a detrimental change to the server and does not encourage growth. It alienates the hybrids. Would be different if hybrids could effectively solo, but we're not necros/druids/enchanters/mages.

Classic was about creating and establishing an in-game community. The devs made that stronger by removing the global ooc/auc channels. Now you actually have to create and maintain relationships with people you meet, send /tells to people LFG, congregate in the EC tunnel to buy/sell... that's what made classic great. So why rip off that band-aid only to put in something that weakens the community? People should be encouraged to group. Hell, put in the group XP bonuses too... imagine a world where people are actually seeking out that 5th or 6th person for their group! How can that not make the server community BETTER?

Sony had to fix this after the data came out on the group sharing of penalties. This data has already come out here by virtue of the fact we already knew about it from its revelation back in the day, so technically if you follow that timeline, the groupshare penalty fix must be put in.

[mitic]

People should be encouraged to group. Hell, put in the group XP bonuses too...

what? thought exp bonus on full group is active since start on p99! if not, why even bothering about boxing ?

[eqholmes]

I feel for the hybrids, I'm going to probaly stop leveling my twink ranger thats 41. No reason to push that penalty on a group. Think maybe ill take the 70k in gear and make a rogue since they are worth while.

[Critical Error]

I would suck up the 40% and group with a pal or preferably a SK. Sure you take less exp in, but its just way easier and faster to kill with a knight tank. Maybe warriors can snap agro better later on, but I know that with most warriors I can use one DoT tops, whereas with a SK I can double dot and use lifetaps generously.

[eqholmes]

I should say bards/sk/pals wont have a problem getting a group still, I wouldn't think.....
Rangers on the other hand, I'm sorry to everyone of you.... My guess is that rangers will most likely be shun'd from groups even more so. Goodbye to the green class. Server went from 35 rangers to 15 I bet.

[YendorLootmonkey]

what? thought exp bonus on full group is active since start on p99! if not, why even bothering about boxing ?

I dunno... is it? There's been speculation, I can't see where any dev has confirmed:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2593&highlight=group+bonus

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=946&highlight=group+bonus

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8013&highlight=group+bonus

But you bring up a good point... one of the sole purposes of the no boxing rule is to promote grouping. Clearly that is important to the devs, as it has been one of the most contentious decisions on the server that it seems like they have to constantly defend. Yet, boxing was classic. They've knowingly deviated from "what is classic" in order to promote grouping, and therefore the health of the server.

I find it a bit hypocritical that they would put in a detriment to grouping by forcing the group to share the hybrid XP penalties when clearly they could make another decision that was contradictory to the "classicness" of the server in order to promote grouping, and therefore the health of the server.

[darkblade717]

I would suck up the 40% and group with a pal or preferably a SK. Sure you take less exp in, but its just way easier and faster to kill with a knight tank. Maybe warriors can snap agro better later on, but I know that with most warriors I can use one DoT tops, whereas with a SK I can double dot and use lifetaps generously.

Warriors can snap aggro in expansions that won't be on P99.

[mimixownzall]

The first question I asked on the somethingawful forums was if they had the group exp penalty for hybrids and such. I wanted to make an SK, but did not want to burden my friends who don't have the availability I have to play (I can usually play at work). They said no and I was delighted.

When I made my SK, I accepted the fact that I would have to spend twice the amount of time and effort to leveling that my friends would; that is my choice and my burden I chose.

Now, I burden everyone around me and I feel guilty when I join a group (which I have only found one thus far who would accept me).

This was not a problem in classic as it was ignorant to a vast majority of gamers. Sony got rid of the group penalty after it came to light due to the problems we are experiencing now.

[Aeolwind]

I dunno... is it? There's been speculation, I can't see where any dev has confirmed:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2593&highlight=group+bonus

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=946&highlight=group+bonus

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8013&highlight=group+bonus

But you bring up a good point... one of the sole purposes of the no boxing rule is to promote grouping. Clearly that is important to the devs, as it has been one of the most contentious decisions on the server that it seems like they have to constantly defend. Yet, boxing was classic. They've knowingly deviated from "what is classic" in order to promote grouping, and therefore the health of the server.

I find it a bit hypocritical that they would put in a detriment to grouping by forcing the group to share the hybrid XP penalties when clearly they could make another decision that was contradictory to the "classicness" of the server in order to promote grouping, and therefore the health of the server.

It's been active, incorrectly active, but active none the less. It was giving a 10% bonus to anything from a duo to a 6 man group. It didn't scale, it was a flat 10% regardless of party size over 1. It now scales with 2% bonus with 2 members to 10% bonus with a full party.