Just plain nuts

[Halladar]

Let's get something out of the way, I just lost interest in playing on this server (and eqemu in general) for about 6 months. I think anyway, I haven't been writing down playdates or anything.

Recently I got the urge again and reinstalled titanium. When I remembered my password for my old account I logged back into this server.

Ok, use that any way you want to.

My point is this: this whole xp penalty thing is utterly nuts. What rational basis do you have for it as it works now?

Ok halflings get a 5% bonus? The one that supposedly was given to halflings instead of humans in original eq due to database error? Then never corrected as it was considered to be too disruptive?

Explain this to me. I get you made a mistake and gave ogres the halfling bonus, and have corrected it.

But why in the name of any EQ god are you giving them a 5% bonus? What about their racial stats or abilities gives you the idea they need one as opposed to humans who it was supposed to go to in original eq?

Just because it worked this way in original EQ you have to do it all over again?

Let me get this straight. As I understand this you want the original class/race penalties and bonuses to apply. Even if they weren't what was intended (at least from the original game manuals you got with the box). Even if they make no sense (the troll sk with his huge xp penalty vs. the erudite necro).

Then, if you are following the game revision history as slavishly as you appear to be, you are going to "fix" it sometime in Velious?

That point may be up in the air, and I might misunderstand the timetable of when these things were revised in the original game.

But what planet does this whole stupid, convoluted idiocy make sense?

You know how Kunark is (or should evolve) if you fix AC properly, and your server more closely emulates the way it was:

Hybrids won't be very good. I know pals/sk's always have better snap and sustained aggro, but the difference between warrior tankage and hybrid tankage is too much even with xp groups in this era. Plus the damage advantage of warriors with kunark era weapons is pretty sizeable.

I don't remember anyone wanting a hybrid for much of anything in kunark. Since Kunark class armor (deepwater, etc) was tradeable they weren't even useful to loot no drop items. I mean you can always sell your moss to a twink in the EC tunnel.

So why exactly do hybrids have this penalty? I know they hold and get aggro better than warriors, but is that going to be enough for people to want them in a group? Over a warrior?

You people aren't stupid. Plus you have played this game and know how everything played out.

So what exactly is going through your head? I just don't get it.

[Extunarian]

"Project 1999 is a free to play Emulated Everquest Server giving Players the opportunity to experience Classic EQ Once again, starting with the original 3 continents and a max level of 50, with the look and feel of the old interface and several modifications making game mechanics similar to how the game used to be."

Weird...it's like their doing what they said they wanted to do. Bastards.

Is this in RnF yet?

[Ihealyou]

Chewbacca is a wookie. Wookies are from Kashik. But Chewbacca is from Endor! It doesn't make sense! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, that is why you must change back the xp penalties.

[Cogwell]

k

[BeepBeep]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP-y4UKWYUw

[astarothel]

IBTL/tossed to RnF.

[Toony]

It's kinda cute (almost) he doesn't get the entire gist of the servers ruleset.

Shhhh no one tell him.

[Insedeel]

Do we honestly need a 3rd topic about the exp penalties? Admins, I'm surprised you've put up with as much as you already have about this without locking these down.

Lets make it simple and reiterate what's already been said in the previous 2 threads.

1. This is a classic server that tries to emulate to the BEST of it's ability and time the devs have to put stuff in (even if it's late) to emulate the good and the BAD that was in the original classic EQ. Don't like it, you don't need to play on here, and the devs certainly don't and won't change things back after implementing a classic mechanic just because it makes it harder now, or benefits/worsens some classes over others.

2. If the devs started changing things that people just didn't "like" just because it wasn't liked then it no longer becomes a classic server. It becomes a server that only has the original game without any expansions. Not a "classic" server.

3. There's a reason this server is so popular, it's because the devs don't listen to these kinds of threads, and I hope to god that never changes, because if that does change, than it ruins the entire foundation this server was built upon which is to most "accurately" within the devs time/power emulate the classic experience as possible.

4. You can quit if you want and come back in late velious. In late velious is when the racial/class exp penalties were changed, so you can look forward to it changing sometime in the distant future when Velious is around.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

[Halladar]

Well explain it to me.

For example what purpose is served by giving halfings a 5% bonus?

What purpose is served by the sk class penalty?

I get the gist of this server. I just don't get why some think it is necessary.

For the record, I won't be playing here much. Might make an iksar, so hopefully I can play in some of the Kunark zones with a crowd the way it used to be.

Maybe not though.

But please explain things to me. Explain to me the mechanics of why these penalties are warranted in particular.

And why hybrids sucking up so much group xp is warranted. Why the need even exists for them to have to suck up so much group xp.

Think about it. You give them a penalty. This penalty pretty much only applies to one thing, the tank role in a group and warriors vs. sk/pals.

None of the hybrids, except the bard (at different times charm/swarm nerfed broken, etc) can hold a candle to any caster class at soloing (even the cleric).

So you give them a penalty. Then they level too slow, so you make it so they take more xp in a group.

And this all makes total sense.

[Halladar]

Do we honestly need a 3rd topic about the exp penalties? Admins, I'm surprised you've put up with as much as you already have about this without locking these down.

Lets make it simple and reiterate what's already been said in the previous 2 threads.

1. This is a classic server that tries to emulate to the BEST of it's ability and time the devs have to put stuff in (even if it's late) to emulate the good and the BAD that was in the original classic EQ. Don't like it, you don't need to play on here, and the devs certainly don't and won't change things back after implementing a classic mechanic just because it makes it harder now, or benefits/worsens some classes over others.

2. If the devs started changing things that people just didn't "like" just because it wasn't liked then it no longer becomes a classic server. It becomes a server that only has the original game without any expansions. Not a "classic" server.

3. There's a reason this server is so popular, it's because the devs don't listen to these kinds of threads, and I hope to god that never changes, because if that does change, than it ruins the entire foundation this server was built upon which is to most "accurately" within the devs time/power emulate the classic experience as possible.

4. You can quit if you want and come back in late velious. In late velious is when the racial/class exp penalties were changed, so you can look forward to it changing sometime in the distant future when Velious is around.

Hope this helps answer your questions.

No it doesn't. Not at all.

I'd like to know what the thoughts of the devs are on this. I want them to explain to the best of their ability what use these penalties are.

I'd like them to explain why what is about to happen to Rangers is good.

I'd really have like it 10 years ago if they had fired Abashi and Smedley had explained everything.

I'd also like you personally to explain what it is about the way xp is now that enhances the game for you. Why does that 40% hybrid penalty matter so much?

Can you answer that? I mean even a guess? Got anything?

[Extunarian]

For the record, I won't be playing here much. Might make an iksar, so hopefully I can play in some of the Kunark zones with a crowd the way it used to be.

BUT IKSARS HAVE TEH XP PENALTY!!!!11


These questions would best be posed to the original developers of EQ. Try here:
http://www.bradmcquaid.com/Brad_McQuaid/Welcome.html

[Insedeel]

No it doesn't. Not at all.

I'd like to know what the thoughts of the devs are on this. I want them to explain to the best of their ability what use these penalties are.

I'd like them to explain why what is about to happen to Rangers is good.

I'd really have like it 10 years ago if they had fired Abashi and Smedley had explained everything.

I'd also like you personally to explain what it is about the way xp is now that enhances the game for you. Why does that 40% hybrid penalty matter so much?

Can you answer that? I mean even a guess? Got anything?

Why does it matter? Why it matters is because that's the way it was back in classic eq. The reasoning by smedley/absor don't matter because the devs aren't going based off their reasonings to have the penalties. They're going purely based off the reasoning that it was there, so it's emulated on this server for "accuracy" sake. Accuracy is the only driving reasoning. Smedley and verant in general thought later in the game that this was the wrong way to go about it, admitted by themselves. That they found it to be a mistake doesn't matter when it comes to accurately recreating this server as it was and trying to emulate around the same timeframe of changes. The exp penalty wasn't changed until velious, so that's where it'll be here for "accuracy" to classic's sake.

[guineapig]

Hybrids add versatility and efficiency to the group.

Hybrid tanks can hold aggro better, which leads to less spot-heals, which leads to less downtime for the cleric and more nukes from a druid or shaman.

Bards add DPS to the entire group, resists, hitpoint and mana regen. This also increases the speed of kills and lowers downtime for the group.

(Can't think of anything for rangers that really adds anything that isn't already covered by other classes... they are decent DPS I guess)

Yeah, so you get a penalty to it's made up for by being able to basically kill constantly and never need downtime.

Also, this server is here to emulate classic. If you don't like this, there are plenty of other servers out there that do not emulate classic.

[holkan]

No it doesn't. Not at all.

I'd like to know what the thoughts of the devs are on this. I want them to explain to the best of their ability what use these penalties are.

I'd like them to explain why what is about to happen to Rangers is good.

I'd really have like it 10 years ago if they had fired Abashi and Smedley had explained everything.

I'd also like you personally to explain what it is about the way xp is now that enhances the game for you. Why does that 40% hybrid penalty matter so much?

Can you answer that? I mean even a guess? Got anything?

Well hell lets just add pok books and a bazaar no one likes traveling across the world for the 9000th time seeing the same stuff or sitting in EC hitting shift up arrow to repeat their trade message for the 50th time while tabbing out of the game to do other things. Oh wait some people do enjoy that shit. What may seem like torture to some people is love for another. Maybe some people love the challenge that the penalty brings maybe they want it as close they can get to their old experiences the good things and the horrible things.

The bottom line is nilbog wants to make this server as close to classic as he possibly can the awful things and the amazing things. Anything he doesn't change is simply limited by the client. I'm sure if he could erase all our knowledge of the game some how he'd do it just so it could be that much closer to 1999.

[Cogwell]

If you think of EXP penalties in pen-and-paper AD&D terms, and not as a power ranking handicap, you'll get it.

Don't forget thats where this game essentially is derived from.

[guineapig]

Lastly, exp penalties limit the amount of hybrids roaming around the server. This is a good thing because otherwise the class population imbalance would be much worse than it is... trust that!

[Landis]

If you think of EXP penalties in pen-and-paper AD&D terms, and not as a power ranking handicap, you'll get it.

Don't forget thats where this game essentially is derived from.

Except in AD&D the classes that leveled slower actually were more powerful at high levels. And there isn't a max level where everyone becomes equally powerful as in eq.

[Halladar]

Yes.

Your point is?

I also don't think a 20% penalty is warranted for regen. Or a 5% penalty for being able to slam without a shield.

But the game has been like that from the beginning.

If you took the penalties away I don't think it would make much difference.

On the other emu servers where you level so fast you don't notice penalties, you don't seem to see that many trolls.

Or maybe it is because racial regen isn't noticeable on those servers anyway with all the ch emblems.

Whatever.

[Cogwell]

Except in AD&D the classes that leveled slower actually were more powerful at high levels. And there isn't a max level where everyone becomes equally powerful as in eq.

I'm not defending it. I'm just telling you why it's there.

[Uaellaen]

On the other emu servers where you level so fast you don't notice penalties, you don't seem to see that many trolls.

yeah because they have 30 total players, and we here have several thousands ... what you dont get is, people want classic ... CLASSIC like it used to be, not what you wish it was like ... so you dont want to play here?

then dont, we dont need more trolls thank you

[Gandite]

Goddamn it have you heard of a paragraph? You stop playing for however many months, decide to come back, and seriously complain about this?

[BeepBeep]

If you took the penalties away I don't think it would make much difference.


So why are you complaining then? :confused:


Sounds to me like someone is playing a hybrid and can't level fast enough. QQ GG.
If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen! ...or just roll with the times and play a halfling warrior :D

[Halladar]

? Explain the bit about the paragraph. My original post was readable. Was yours supposed to be a paragraph?

If so you didn't indent the start of it. Or are we not doing that in threads?

[Uaellaen]

Goddamn it have you heard of a paragraph?

appearantly he has not!

[guineapig]

Sounds like this guys just doesn't like Everquest.

/em looks for the ignore button

[Ihealyou]

? Explain the bit about the paragraph. My original post was readable. Was yours supposed to be a paragraph?

If so you didn't indent the start of it. Or are we not doing that in threads?

In modern english grammar every sentence isn't a new line.

I don't know why you think this is how paragraphs are formed.

Or even sentences for that matter.

[Extunarian]

I think that what is he is saying is that,

while we don't indent every paragraph,

we tend also to not break up thoughts

in such a way that they encompass several lines.

Unless of course you want to just take up real estate on the page.

Like

I

do

right

now.

[Halladar]

So why are you complaining then? :confused:


Sounds to me like someone is playing a hybrid and can't level fast enough. QQ GG.
If you can't stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen! ...or just roll with the times and play a halfling warrior :D

I'd never play a non-caster on this server. On this one I would only play:

Druid
Shaman
Mage
Necro

Clerics can solo, although it is painful and you have to pick your spots. Too much other heartache associated with them though. I could write you a very lengthy post about this one.

Wizards are a pita for a long time to level. Much easier with the 4 classes mentioned above. They definitely are worth it past 50, but I don't care to invest the time to level one here.

Only melee class I'd consider is monk. Actually I'd play one of those before a cleric or wizard. FD is a great utility. Let's you run around a lot of places.

Never got the hang of enchanters really. Too much stress for me in a group. I just didn't like it.

[Gandite]

This forum needs moderators so badly. And not moderators who are also GMs.

[Halladar]

I think that what is he is saying is that,

while we don't indent every paragraph,

we tend also to not break up thoughts

in such a way that they encompass several lines.

Unless of course you want to just take up real estate on the page.

Like

I

do

right

now.

I.

Think.

You.

Don't.

Have.

Much.

So.

You.

Are.

Exaggerating.

[BeepBeep]

I'd never play a non-caster on this server. On this one I would only play:

Druid
Shaman
Mage
Necro

Clerics can solo, although it is painful and you have to pick your spots. Too much other heartache associated with them though. I could write you a very lengthy post about this one.

Wizards are a pita for a long time to level. Much easier with the 4 classes mentioned above. They definitely are worth it past 50, but I don't care to invest the time to level one here.

Only melee class I'd consider is monk. Actually I'd play one of those before a cleric or wizard. FD is a great utility. Let's you run around a lot of places.

Never got the hang of enchanters really. Too much stress for me in a group. I just didn't like it.

You didn't actually answer my question. You even said penalties don't make much difference, so why are you posting? Especially since you aren't even playing on here which is implied by your above post.

R&F here we commmmmmmmmmme

[Extunarian]

I may have exaggerated a bit, but if your writing style seems normal to you, I suppose I would have had to use a sprinkle of hyperbole. Otherwise you wouldn't see what I was trying to point out. A period does not need to be followed by a carriage return every time.

[Halladar]

You didn't actually answer my question. You even said penalties don't make much difference, so why are you posting? Especially since you aren't even playing on here which is implied by your above post.

R&F here we commmmmmmmmmme

Ok. I take it this was your question?

"So why are you complaining then?

Because I choose too.

Because I think this whole xp premise thing is flawed and unintelligent, I choose to criticize it.

Now I'll spell out why I would never play a non-caster here.

I do not like to be a level 45 warrior (or maybe a 45 cleric), who can't just decide to run to City of Mist on a whim. I mean I didn't play my alt necro up high enough to be able to afford cobalt legs (think that was the one with invis), and I haven't camped the ancient cyclops (cause I hate long ass camps) to get my jboots (didn't make it to Najena in time, guessing that is over now).

Insert Paladin where it says warrior in this one.

Or take a cleric. Great in groups. Got to spend a small fortune on cloudys and bloodstones, though. Interesting about that, you know clerics usually get the shaft in pickup groups on loot because you are on your ass the whole time? I mean the melees usually loot as soon as something is killed, and you have to stay on your ass to get enough mana to lay out just one more heal...

Unless you have a good group leader or knowledgeable considerate group members it is frustrating to play a cleric.

Not all classes in this game are created equal from a fun standpoint.

If you can't bind yourself and gate and not waste a ton of time, if you can't travel easily, you can't explore (still a lot in the game I haven't seen even in kunark/velious era), you can't do quests without help, or solo a griffin or a sand giant because you feel like it at level 50...

Then I don't want it.

[Aadill]

From what I gather you missed the following:

1) The point of this server

2) The point of this experience on said server

3) The incredible dislike by the community for the game you are describing as more to your liking

4) The type of community that exists on a PvE server

5) The source of this game and it's underlying stats for classes/races, and the combinations thereof.


XP Penalties are dumb, sure, but they were classic and present a challenge. IF you don't want that challenge, then obviously play the class and race of your choice that benefits you the most.

When the game was new it wasn't about "I need to run here to XP." No one knew what was up so everyone was exploring. The beauty of this game is in the fact that you can't magically get everywhere, you had to actually safely traverse entire continents to get to places of wonder. The game was made with a vision of a lore-driven universe.

[astarothel]

Hey look. P99 has recreated the classic experience.

People crying like little girls over how they feel the game should be.

[Ihealyou]

Talking about recreating the classic experience isn't classic.

[xshayla701]

i like your new siggy uuur

[Ihealyou]

It hurts my eyes tbh, but its totally worth it. The forums need more color imo.

[guineapig]

http://memegenerator.net/2Iksar/ImageMacro/1486380/2Iksar-I-dont-understand-what-this-is-about-Dont-worry-honey-its-just-RF-Friday.jpg

[Wonton]

Well explain it to me.

For example what purpose is served by giving halfings a 5% bonus?

What purpose is served by the sk class penalty?

I get the gist of this server. I just don't get why some think it is necessary.

For the record, I won't be playing here much. Might make an iksar, so hopefully I can play in some of the Kunark zones with a crowd the way it used to be.

Maybe not though.

But please explain things to me. Explain to me the mechanics of why these penalties are warranted in particular.

And why hybrids sucking up so much group xp is warranted. Why the need even exists for them to have to suck up so much group xp.

Think about it. You give them a penalty. This penalty pretty much only applies to one thing, the tank role in a group and warriors vs. sk/pals.

None of the hybrids, except the bard (at different times charm/swarm nerfed broken, etc) can hold a candle to any caster class at soloing (even the cleric).

So you give them a penalty. Then they level too slow, so you make it so they take more xp in a group.

And this all makes total sense.

Less enter key and more completed thoughts.

[Zahasha]

As someone new to this server and someone not affected by the XP penalty thing (DE enchanter) - unless I group with one of those poor souls - I think some of you are "IT'S CLASSIC DEWD WHAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND ABOUT **CLASSIC**!!?!?!?" closed-minded to the point of being ridiculous. Most of you probably didn't even the the entire OP.

So, what exactly *IS* the point of a Troll SK having a 68% XP penalty, and inflicting it on any group he's in with them having reduced XP? There are many things in P1999 that weren't in pre-Kunark "Classis" EQ, so don't give us that "purist" crap. What possibly reasoning could you have? It robs the fun of that Troll SK player and everybody they group with, so what possible positive effect is it having unless you're just a massive masochist?

Personally, I'm damn happy I found this server, and am donating $50 to the dev team for their great work. I also played "Classic" EQ from launch and for many years thereafter, with many max-level characters. I just thought I'd set that out there, so you don't give me the "newbie doesn't know what they're talking about" BS.


- Zahasha, Dark Elf enchantress

[guineapig]

EQ is masochistic in many ways. This is just one of them.

The devs didn't come up with these ideas, the creators of the game did. The server is attempting to mimic what happened on live, be it bad or good. That's the goal.

Don't think of it as something that is being done to make people happy. Think of it as an art project, a scale model. The goal is to replicate the original.

If you're make a scale replica of the Statue of Liberty you are probably going use the same materials. It doesn't matter if you know that the metal will eventually turn green due to oxidation. You are trying to be accurate to the source material. (not my best analogy, but you get what I'm saying)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Here's the deal.

Having the hybrids penalize the groups with their penalty WAS classic.

However, once players determined this was happening, the cat was out of the bag and, because grouping favored the holy trinity and made it already hard enough for hybrids to get groups, Sony had to correct it in order not to alienate a large portion of their playerbase from being able to get groups, and thus in most cases, being able to play the game.

However, you can't un-know what is already known. Knowing that the hybrid penalty also impacts the group, the stigma of having a hybrid in your group happens MUCH EARLIER in the timeline, and therefore is not classic. Since you can not make everyone conveniently forget this occurred, the only way to keep things classic is to stop penalizing the group with each member's individual class/race penalty or however they fixed it.

For example, in classic, a hybrid could get a group without too much difficulty because no one knew that their 40% or whatever penalty was impacting the group. On this server, we knew this from the start, and the hybrid has a significantly more difficult time getting a group because of it. So how is that classic? Add to the fact that we don't have the population of the Live servers back in the 1999-2000 timeframe, so you're making it even harder for hybrids to be accepted into groups, when grouping opportunities are already sparse as it is.

Correcting this would be similar to fixing various exploits/pathing bugs/etc RIGHT NOW before they were actually corrected in the original timeline. I don't have any particular examples of this, but of course no one would knowingly let something that is detrimental to the health of the server go on just for the sake of "following the timeline", right?

[astarothel]

There are many things in P1999 that weren't in pre-Kunark "Classis" EQ, so don't give us that "purist" crap.

Statement debunked multiple times in multiple threads.
If it's not classic it either can't be changed because of the client, or hasn't been changed yet. If it can be changed, I guarantee you 99.95% of the time it will be when devs get around to it.

That "purist" crap should be why you're here. If it's not I recommend finding another server.

[Supreme]

Chewbacca is a wookie. Wookies are from Kashik. But Chewbacca is from Endor! It doesn't make sense! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, that is why you must change back the xp penalties.

This reply is better than Jboots.

[Auvdar]

One of the great things about classic EQ was the need to group with other people, sharing the hybrid exp penalty amongst the group puts people off forming your classic Tank/DPS/HEALS/CC group to rather form OP pet groups at the expense of several key classes.

This.

[Sizzle]

Artificially increased play time wins again! it was all a ploy to get people to play longer and spend more money!!! we dont need it here anymore the game is freeeeeee. jk haha i type this as i listen to Beep's post "why cant we be friends" ty beep we can be friends sir.

[Aeolwind]

Chug some donkey dick. Now that is a reply.

Seriously though, you expected us to not fix these back the way they were?

Not sure about $th edition AD&D, but, 3rd fo sho still had varied XP tables. And EQ was a game built off a PNP RPG.

If more people creating MMO's thought like my old DM's and to some degree myself, you'd end up with much better game play & mechanics.

I'm drunk and can't remember the name of the module but... it had the falling ceiling that did 15d10 damage and the sphere of disintegration in that statue and the notes said "Encourage your players to put their fingers inside the statue. After the first person disappears hint to them it might be a portal of some kind." Seriously...people are soft these days. Nothing more fun for a DM than killing an entire party (including all followers!) in the first 3 rooms.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Chewbacca is a wookie. Wookies are from Kashik. But Chewbacca is from Endor! It doesn't make sense! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, that is why you must change back the xp penalties.

lol

[Humwawa]

Aeolwind, bring back roleplay and I will hail you as a god.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

oh and human monks currently suffer a 50pct xp penalty pls fix, and make it +50%

[YendorLootmonkey]

Seriously though, you expected us to not fix these back the way they were?

Yes, based on the fact that this time around, everyone knows about them and Sony fixed it when that info came out in order not to alienate the hybrids.

Just like I'm sure you fixed a bunch of exploits proactively to ensure the health of the server because they were more widely-known this time around, and you didn't just wait until they were fixed in the original timeline.

[astarothel]

I'm drunk and can't remember the name of the module but... it had the falling ceiling that did 15d10 damage and the sphere of disintegration in that statue and the notes said "Encourage your players to put their fingers inside the statue. After the first person disappears hint to them it might be a portal of some kind." Seriously...people are soft these days. Nothing more fun for a DM than killing an entire party (including all followers!) in the first 3 rooms.

Tomb of Horrors. Next to Temple of Elemental Evil, it's one of Gygax's most brutal fucking adventures ever.

[Brund the Decrepit]

This whole thread is "classic"

[Aeolwind]

Tomb of Horrors. Next to Temple of Elemental Evil, it's one of Gygax's most brutal fucking adventures ever.

Thank you! I've been wracking my brain since!

Ceiling room took out every follow (all 300 of the warrior and rangers lol). 1 survived, they used him to test the Sphere of Annhilation lol.

[frefaln]

While we're all over the map on the topic of XP bonuses/penalties, I'll say this: I love my rogue and have no idea why it gets a 9% bonus according to the FAQ. Sure, I can't solo for shiznit but that's a limitation I willingly accepted. I am very certain that the benefits of being a rogue have saved me a few dozen deaths by now, especially when I watch groups disintegrate when trying to invis to a camp.

The whole XP penalty/bonus matrix doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, to be honest. It's no secret that casters are vastly overpowered compared to their tank counterparts, yet most of them don't even come close to the 40% penalty on SKs and Pallies (who, generally speaking, work harder than most casters except chanters). It's starting to make sense why there's a noticeable tank shortage in the 20s and 30s.

As for rogues, hell, I enjoy the class so much I'd be perfectly content with a 0% bonus.

[astarothel]

Thank you! I've been wracking my brain since!

Ceiling room took out every follow (all 300 of the warrior and rangers lol). 1 survived, they used him to test the Sphere of Annhilation lol.

The adventure simply requires you to go into every situation thinking that there's a trap.

I got to play it again in D&D 3.5 (as I had forgotten about pretty much everything about it except for the sphere) and chose a skill heavy rogue with spiderclimb slippers and a bunch of utility magic items for all sorts of situations.

"Dude, why did you spend like 1500gp on scrolls of Summon Monster I"
"Watch carefully as this cow runs down the hall." -Mooooo- *THUD**BOOM*
"I hate you so much right now."

[fastboy21]

It wasn't a Gygax module, but if you ever really want to test your party run Dragon Mountain the way it is published.

I have run the module three times with different groups, and played it twice before that as a player. There is just about zero percent chance of any group even making it close to the dragon if you don't adapt the module to make it easier for the players. Traps, murder-holes, poisoned arrows, dead falls, small armies of over-bearing kobolds, etc...some of the trap set-ups are the best that I have ever seen anywhere.

My problem with running the module has always been that I am looking to running the deeper areas of the mountain so much that I sometimes get tempted to make the dungeon easier in the beginning than it is supposed to be. It is not so much that I want the players to win, but that I want to kill them with cooler stuff a bit deeper in...

[Thorjorkill]

The adventure simply requires you to go into every situation thinking that there's a trap.

I got to play it again in D&D 3.5 (as I had forgotten about pretty much everything about it except for the sphere) and chose a skill heavy rogue with spiderclimb slippers and a bunch of utility magic items for all sorts of situations.

"Dude, why did you spend like 1500gp on scrolls of Summon Monster I"
"Watch carefully as this cow runs down the hall." -Mooooo- *THUD**BOOM*
"I hate you so much right now."

I replayed this one last year as well. Knowing the extreme brutality of tomb of horrors from WAY back when, I decided to play it safe and whiney.

We still lost everyone in the party in like the first 4 rooms / 2 hallways.

I'm beginning to wonder if the demi lich really exists...

Aeolwind, I think it would be awesome that when you are stunned/paralyzed/mezzed and a critter hits you, it does 10x crit/max damage here on p1999. Give these whiney bastages something to REALLY complain about. I mean fuck, just bring back weapon calc damage for mobs from 1 to 20 as it was in CLASSIC for some real bitching - decayed skellies with 2 handers hitting level one newbs for 18 points of damage over and over... THAT WAS CLASSIC...

Halladar, why do you care so much about these penalties, we understand they are retarded, BUT, so was a druids ability to port players and make some really rightous coin, so why not just put pok books in right now with the plane of knowledge? When I saw someone roaming around in classic with a soulfire, I was always like "wow."

When anyone saw a halfling druid at 50, we teased them relentlessly.

When we saw a level 50 troll SK in classic, it was typically the same expression of "damn man, great job sticking in there..."

But you needed an explanation, and I think Aeolwind answered it nicely with his "I plowed your mom last night while ramming mule cock into your mouth" statement.

Well, maybe thats not what he typed, but thats the proper translation.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Lol I remember the temple of elemental evil and dragon mountain... players couldn't handle it... never did tomb of horrors tho

[Aeolwind]

It wasn't a Gygax module, but if you ever really want to test your party run Dragon Mountain the way it is published.

I have run the module three times with different groups, and played it twice before that as a player. There is just about zero percent chance of any group even making it close to the dragon if you don't adapt the module to make it easier for the players. Traps, murder-holes, poisoned arrows, dead falls, small armies of over-bearing kobolds, etc...some of the trap set-ups are the best that I have ever seen anywhere.

My problem with running the module has always been that I am looking to running the deeper areas of the mountain so much that I sometimes get tempted to make the dungeon easier in the beginning than it is supposed to be. It is not so much that I want the players to win, but that I want to kill them with cooler stuff a bit deeper in...

I've never had a party not make it to the dragon, but I'm yet to have anyone be able to kill it after getting there. Protection from Missles trivializes Dragon Mountain huge =/.

[Aeolwind]

I replayed this one last year as well. Knowing the extreme brutality of tomb of horrors from WAY back when, I decided to play it safe and whiney.

We still lost everyone in the party in like the first 4 rooms / 2 hallways.

I'm beginning to wonder if the demi lich really exists...

Aeolwind, I think it would be awesome that when you are stunned/paralyzed/mezzed and a critter hits you, it does 10x crit/max damage here on p1999. Give these whiney bastages something to REALLY complain about. I mean fuck, just bring back weapon calc damage for mobs from 1 to 20 as it was in CLASSIC for some real bitching - decayed skellies with 2 handers hitting level one newbs for 18 points of damage over and over... THAT WAS CLASSIC...

Halladar, why do you care so much about these penalties, we understand they are retarded, BUT, so was a druids ability to port players and make some really rightous coin, so why not just put pok books in right now with the plane of knowledge? When I saw someone roaming around in classic with a soulfire, I was always like "wow."

When anyone saw a halfling druid at 50, we teased them relentlessly.

When we saw a level 50 troll SK in classic, it was typically the same expression of "damn man, great job sticking in there..."

But you needed an explanation, and I think Aeolwind answered it nicely with his "I plowed your mom last night while ramming mule cock into your mouth" statement.

Well, maybe thats not what he typed, but thats the proper translation.

He does. I used a wish from a deck of many things to learn about all the traps in the module and actually made it to him. But, as Demi-Lich's are know to do, he soul trapped a couple, drove a couple insane, and permanently charmed a couple of us. Me? I made a bargain to keep leading people to their dooms if he left me alone lol.

[Halladar]

But you needed an explanation, and I think Aeolwind answered it nicely with his "I plowed your mom last night while ramming mule cock into your mouth" statement.

Well, maybe thats not what he typed, but thats the proper translation.

I didn't read it that way at all. I figured his "donkey dicks" thing was wishful thinking on his part.

As for the rest of it I figure him for a two-and-a-half, three inch man. Not much cram potential, and well my mom has her standards.

[Droxx]

Can we make this thread into a poll? To see if anyone gives a shit about what Halladar is saying? Please?

[Neno]

Why were pumice stones nerfed from the get go? If the classic element of the server is so important they should not have been nerfed for a long time. Why was the guise set as rare drop in order to limit the number that dropped on this server? I've been 50 for a long time and my class can also solo extremely well so I don't really care about the exp changes but things are excluded or deviate from classic in many areas. Keeping the exp penalty because its classic while changing many other things that were also classic doesn't make a lot of sense for a legitimate classic server.

[Appaullo]

Chewbacca is a wookie. Wookies are from Kashik. But Chewbacca is from Endor! It doesn't make sense! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, that is why you must change back the xp penalties.

OH NO!! Hes going for the Chewbacca defense!

[Lucrio40]

The devs didn't come up with these ideas, the creators of the game did. The server is attempting to mimic what happened on live, be it bad or good. That's the goal.

Don't think of it as something that is being done to make people happy. Think of it as an art project, a scale model. The goal is to replicate the original.


Then why are we not able to outrun mobs? This was purposely changed by the devs to deviate away from the classic live servers because the devs thought running away from mobs should not be easy, even though, with the exception of a few SoW speed mobs scattered about, every mob WAS EASY to run from in EQlive until GoD. When that was announced where were the people making the lolnotclassic responses then?

Why are we so adamant of keeping the exp penalty in when we're totally okay with Paineel going into the game before PoSky?

Its something of a bitter pill to have to swallow when so many other non classic things are put in. Give me shitty mob pathing, The walls in Highkeep eating mobs if they get too close, mobs I can run away from, ect. and hybrid xp penalties won't be an issue since it will truly feel like classic, instead of "classic, except where we think we can make it better."

And even with all this said, I'm still pretty much in love with this server, these are just some concerns of mine.

[astarothel]

Why are we so adamant of keeping the exp penalty in when we're totally okay with Paineel going into the game before PoSky?

Its something of a bitter pill to have to swallow when so many other non classic things are put in.


Quick name 5 that aren't client based/related. GO!

[astarothel]

Quick name 5 intentional things that aren't client based/related. GO!

[Lucrio40]

I think all but number 4 has been put out as intentional and number 4 might or might not be intentional.


Mobs running faster than players
As I stated before, Paineel going in before PoSky
I don't think mob pathing is client based, and it has been changed from classic
While it wouldn't have the same effect due to the new client, the spell book not required to be open in order to med. More than likely not like this due to the all but trivial effect it would have, but still omitted none the less.
Rather than the caster having to do at least 50% of the damage to the mob in order to get full exp while soloing with a pet, the caster only needs to do 1 damage in order to get full exp.

[astarothel]

I think all but number 4 has been put out as intentional and number 4 might or might not be intentional.


Mobs running faster than players
As I stated before, Paineel going in before PoSky
I don't think mob pathing is client based, and it has been changed from classic
While it wouldn't have the same effect due to the new client, the spell book not required to be open in order to med. More than likely not like this due to the all but trivial effect it would have, but still omitted none the less.
Rather than the caster having to do at least 50% of the damage to the mob in order to get full exp while soloing with a pet, the caster only needs to do 1 damage in order to get full exp.


1. Mob runspeed
2. Clientside/massive updates required
3. Mob pathing isn't client based it has to be recreated from scratch, and is nowhere near perfect or intentional on eqemu
4. Spellbook: Client
5. The pet exp change used to be 100% until it was updated to its current incarnation, don't think it won't be changed again.

So you've got Number 1, and possibly number 5 depending on if it gets changed again. That's it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

6. inability to multi-box

[Shannacore]

6. inability to multi-box

Oh you definitely have the ability to multi-box.

I just highly suggest you do not.

[Halladar]

I'm sick of this. Plus I've moved on. As I said in the first post of this thread I might come back a little when Kunark comes out, but probably not.

Anyway, I just want to say I don't think most of you guys EVEN remember what classic was like.

There are so many differences here it's not funny.

I put another post in server chat that was pretty much ignored, but I'm going to repeat some of it.

Flash of Light doesn't act the same as on live.

You SHOULD NOT be able to stack snare and root if this is a classic server. That may seem trivial to some but it is an important thing in groups. And it affects paladins for sure.

Not to mention it takes a little away from how easily druids in particular solo (can't remember if the darkness line was affected by root, but I kind of think it was, of course that mainly affects how necros work in groups).

Proc rates are way too high. I kind of suspect they don't have them normalized to a time frame (like in live), instead there is some chance they go off on every swing. This lets the current warrior config of two yaks build up more aggro than they really should.

I don't have a warrior, sk, and paladin. Right now I think though that they don't have different mitigation tables as they should. Nor attack tables.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not going to parse it.

Geez, I'm sure most of us could go on about things for a long time.

This is eq flavored, enough so to work. But it is definitely not even close to playing as live did in the early days. Too many differences. Too many differences that are very difficult to remember and research in order to implement. Particularly since we don't know exactly what Verant was doing in the first place in many situations.

Look, at least this server has a population. And in the important things (to me at least), like having at least 10 people in GFay at all times it seems like it used to be. Or having someone in the Qeynos newbie yard, or in unrest...

I'm not sure the devs understand exactly why they have the population they do. I don't think it is because they have hybrid penalties, which is the subject of this thread. If they think it is because they do, fine it didn't affect me in the game because I wouldn't play one.

Given another year or so, I think they probably could tune this thing to be seem a lot like it was in the beginning. Whether that would be totally good is something I have my doubts about.

Anyway I'm out of here. I am going to do my best to ignore the ludicrous insults some here seem to toss out in lieu of an argument, but it's hard y'know?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Oh you definitely have the ability to multi-box.

I just highly suggest you do not.


6. (revised) inability to multi-box after you get caught multi-boxing

[uraniumrooster]

Damn, people make way too big a deal out of the exp penalty. My main is a Bard and I didn't even notice the penalties were in place until 40, which was my first bitch of a hell level (30 and 35 were cake). I've also had no trouble at all finding groups, and many of the groups I've been in have had a SK or Pally tanking as well, due to the low number of warriors (since they're pretty bad at holding aggro right now, relative to the hybrid tanks). In all of those groups, the pace has been such that exp flies even with the penalties stacked up, so nobody gives a damn.

IMO, if these people who are making such a big deal out of the penalties would just let it go for a second and play the game, I can almost guarantee you'd barely notice the penalty. You might even have fun, and in the end that's why we're all here isn't it?