I am not against GMO's.

[Hasbinbad]

Biologists have given us a great gift by unlocking the power of DNA. YES we must be careful as fuck with that power, but IMHO, we should also use it if it is needed. Genetically modified organisms have every bit of potential people say they have, and so much more that they don't even talk about. We are herein discussing the very foundry of creation and now more than ever are the gods of our world.

Hubris though this may be, it is absolutely true. The use of techniques to add and remove traits from organisms could possibly open an entirely new world of variety and precision in the propagation of life in the known universe. The previous sentence is, however, a double edged sword that is Excalibur sharp on both sides. While the potential exists to make quality of life better, also potential exists to do what many humans would call great evil.

We are tottering on the precipice as we speak. This is the time in which we will see on which side of things we will fall.

We need to ask ourselves who we want to be the custodians of this power. We need to ask ourselves what they've done in the past.

I am not against GMO's, but I am against Monsanto (http://gmo-awareness.com/2011/05/12/monsanto-dirty-dozen/) (link relatively free of emotional rhetoric, based on facts).

However, If there is anything that Monsanto has proven through the years, it is precisely that they do not give any fucks what anyone thinks or says about them. I do not think walking around with a permit - threatening to snitch on people who actually practice civil disobedience - is the way to stop them.

I advocate nothing.

[Reapin]

Biologists have given us a great gift by unlocking the power of DNA. YES we must be careful as fuck with that power, but IMHO, we should also use it if it is needed. Genetically modified organisms have every bit of potential people say they have, and so much more that they don't even talk about. We are herein discussing the very foundry of creation and now more than ever are the gods of our world.

Hubris though this may be, it is absolutely true. The use of techniques to add and remove traits from organisms could possibly open an entirely new world of variety and precision in the propagation of life in the known universe. The previous sentence is, however, a double edged sword that is Excalibur sharp on both sides. While the potential exists to make quality of life better, also potential exists to do what many humans would call great evil.

We are tottering on the precipice as we speak. This is the time in which we will see on which side of things we will fall.

We need to ask ourselves who we want to be the custodians of this power. We need to ask ourselves what they've done in the past.

I am not against GMO's, but I am against Monsanto (http://gmo-awareness.com/2011/05/12/monsanto-dirty-dozen/) (link relatively free of emotional rhetoric, based on facts).

However, If there is anything that Monsanto has proven through the years, it is precisely that they do not give any fucks what anyone thinks or says about them. I do not think walking around with a permit - threatening to snitch on people who actually practice civil disobedience - is the way to stop them.

I advocate nothing.


We do not need more food. We need fewer people.

We do not need GMO's we need airborne Ebola.

[Hasbinbad]

We do not need more food. We need fewer people.
also potential exists to do what many humans would call great evil.
We do not need GMO's we need airborne Ebola.
also potential exists to do what many humans would call great evil.

[Hasbinbad]

It's almost as if I addressed that idiot non-point specifically or something..

[Reapin]

It's almost as if I addressed that idiot non-point specifically or something..

Who is the idiot?

You seem to think the human race should keep breeding itself into extinction. I do not.

We have a large population of what I call "The immortal Vermin". The part of society who has nothing to offer the species. Their only talent is to spread their DNA and leech off the rest of the population who actually contribute to society. They are in every race and every class of people.

It is simply irresponsible to suggest that the current exponential growth of the human population is anything but detrimental to not only our existence, but the existence of most of the species on this planet. The human race and the planet would be better off if 2/3 of the population were culled.


You know I am right.

[Hasbinbad]

Yes but the parasite comparison is dependent upon our actions. Just because we haven't been awesome so far doesn't mean that we cannot become awesome. In fact, I'm not even arguing that our nature isn't to be non-awesome, I'll grant you that point. But I will also raise the bar and say that we're the very first species known capable of using reason to go against our nature, at once our greatest strength and possibly our downfall.

[KessonDaslef]

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein

[Reapin]

http://www.1channel.ch/external.php?vid=99658637&link=1

[Hasbinbad]

"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt." -Bertrand Russell

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein
While those things are smart, those men didn't know that we'd soon be using recombinant viral particles to create chimera with novel characteristics.

[Daldolma]

reapin either substandard troll or truly cringeworthy

[Alawen]

Population is not exponentially growing. Many nations are reproducing below the replacement rate and dependent on immigration for young labor. The demographic transition has occurred or is occurring almost universally.

Good and evil are social constructs. Humans are not capable of destroying the entire biosphere. It is possible that we can make earth uninhabitable for most or all of us. If we do that, we don't deserve to exist. It won't be evil. It will be balance. Life will go on without us.

[hatelore]

Who is the idiot?

You seem to think the human race should keep breeding itself into extinction. I do not.

We have a large population of what I call "The immortal Vermin". The part of society who has nothing to offer the species. Their only talent is to spread their DNA and leech off the rest of the population who actually contribute to society. They are in every race and every class of people.

It is simply irresponsible to suggest that the current exponential growth of the human population is anything but detrimental to not only our existence, but the existence of most of the species on this planet. The human race and the planet would be better off if 2/3 of the population were culled.


You know I am right.

Why not be the first to eradicate yourself from this ever-bredding, ever-miserable world? You can start the show. Don't worry, we will follow in your footsteps.

[hatelore]

I agree with Alawin on that one. This is for once a good post by HBB. I am very sceptical about the use and changing/restructuring of dna. There is a lot of ethics involved for one , plus any information that is learned/found out about over time , will always make its way into the "bad-guys" hands.

We cannot even imagine all of the possibilities of what could happen by altering and restructuring dna to try to make us more "devine and perfect"

That Link you posted about Mansanto is a good read. I would say most don't have a clue what goes on in the day to day of what they eat and ingest.

[smokemon]

The United States wastes more than enough food each year to stop world hunger, the problem isn't about there being enough food, it's about distribution and control of the food. The problem isn't with "Genetic Modification" as a science.

However what they are doing is just randomly jamming in the modified DNA where ever the fuck they want basically rolling the dice and seeing the results on us, human guinea pigs. Could they do amazing things with genetic modification,if pointed in the other direction, of course. Will they do that though? It's highly un-likely.

I mean look at cars for example, we can easily run a fuckin' car powered off hydrogen extracted from water at an extremely low cost. Will they do that? OF COURSE NOT, it doesn't translate into massive piles of plati....errr dollars. The same thing could be said about energy in general, the research and science is there, but what do those at the top do?? They keep us fuckin' strapped to petroleum/coal/nuclear so they can reap trillions of dollars in profit. OR look at what was done with Tesla, he wanted to give free wireless energy to everyone, what happened, he was bankrupted and his research facility burnt and his work stolen so those who had a play in the energy field could supress that knowledge and reap billions off it. The same thing is being done with genetic modification to our food. They are using it to make trillions / control the food supply / keep us down and sick / They are not using it for the good of mankind, like most technological advances as of late. Instead they give us Ipad95. ALL HAIL IPAD95.

It's the monolithic ruthless"Elite" who has the control of where this technology/academics of the technology goes and has for a long time. It does not look good in the least if we continue on this path letting them control the channels of technology and science, healthcare etc.... History keeps repeating itself, time and time again these "Elite" suppress the amazing potential of these technologies and have for YEARS AND YEARS. Again, if placed in the right hands or pushed down the right path all of these things Energy/DNA manipulation/AI/ etc all could propel humanity beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

[KessonDaslef]

The United States wastes more than enough food each year to stop world hunger, the problem isn't about there being enough food, it's about distribution and control of the food. The problem isn't with "Genetic Modification" as a science.

However what they are doing is just randomly jamming in the modified DNA where ever the fuck they want basically rolling the dice and seeing the results on us, human guinea pigs. Could they do amazing things with genetic modification,if pointed in the other direction, of course. Will they do that though? It's highly un-likely.

I mean look at cars for example, we can easily run a fuckin' car powered off hydrogen extracted from water at an extremely low cost. Will they do that? OF COURSE NOT, it doesn't translate into massive piles of plati....errr dollars. The same thing could be said about energy in general, the research and science is there, but what do those at the top do?? They keep us fuckin' strapped to petroleum/coal/nuclear so they can reap trillions of dollars in profit. OR look at what was done with Tesla, he wanted to give free wireless energy to everyone, what happened, he was bankrupted and his research facility burnt and his work stolen so those who had a play in the energy field could supress that knowledge and reap billions off it. The same thing is being done with genetic modification to our food. They are using it to make trillions / control the food supply / keep us down and sick / They are not using it for the good of mankind, like most technological advances as of late. Instead they give us Ipad95. ALL HAIL IPAD95.

It's the monolithic ruthless"Elite" who has the control of where this technology/academics of the technology goes and has for a long time. It does not look good in the least if we continue on this path letting them control the channels of technology and science, healthcare etc.... History keeps repeating itself, time and time again these "Elite" suppress the amazing potential of these technologies and have for YEARS AND YEARS. Again, if placed in the right hands or pushed down the right path all of these things Energy/DNA manipulation/AI/ etc all could propel humanity beyond anyone's wildest imagination.

[Hailto]

reapin either substandard troll or truly cringeworthy

Its a mixture of both. Guy definitely has an extra chromosome though.

[Hitchens]

A true hero.

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[stonez138]

Population is not exponentially growing. Many nations are reproducing below the replacement rate and dependent on immigration for young labor. The demographic transition has occurred or is occurring almost universally.

QFT

The idea that massive overpopulation is simply a myth.

[stonez138]

that = of

[Raavak]

Biologists have given us a great gift by unlocking the power of DNA. YES we must be careful as fuck with that power, but IMHO, we should also use it if it is needed. Genetically modified organisms have every bit of potential people say they have, and so much more that they don't even talk about.You think there is a coincidence that most of the world's food is produced in the USA and Canada? Are GMO's any more revolutionary than, say, crop rotation was when it was introduced?

[Raavak]

QFT

The idea that massive overpopulation is simply a myth.Overpopulation was the "OMG WE ARE KILLING THE PLANET" fad of the '70s. All the predictions of doom failed to materialize. Net population is still growing but not at the same rate as it was... heck in the west population is generally decreasing... at the same time as food production continues to increase.

[Zithax]

Whole lotta nope.

[Faerie]

Overpopulation was the "OMG WE ARE KILLING THE PLANET" fad of the '70s. All the predictions of doom failed to materialize. Net population is still growing but not at the same rate as it was... heck in the west population is generally decreasing... at the same time as food production continues to increase.

You mean rate of population growth is decreasing, right?

[hatelore]

The United States wastes more than enough food each year to stop world hunger, the problem isn't about there being enough food, it's about distribution and control of the food. The problem isn't with "Genetic Modification" as a science.

However what they are doing is just randomly jamming in the modified DNA where ever the fuck they want basically rolling the dice and seeing the results on us, human guinea pigs. Could they do amazing things with genetic modification,if pointed in the other direction, of course. Will they do that though? It's highly un-likely.

I mean look at cars for example, we can easily run a fuckin' car powered off hydrogen extracted from water at an extremely low cost. Will they do that? OF COURSE NOT, it doesn't translate into massive piles of plati....errr dollars. The same thing could be said about energy in general, the research and science is there, but what do those at the top do?? They keep us fuckin' strapped to petroleum/coal/nuclear so they can reap trillions of dollars in profit. OR look at what was done with Tesla, he wanted to give free wireless energy to everyone, what happened, he was bankrupted and his research facility burnt and his work stolen so those who had a play in the energy field could supress that knowledge and reap billions off it. The same thing is being done with genetic modification to our food. They are using it to make trillions / control the food supply / keep us down and sick / They are not using it for the good of mankind, like most technological advances as of late. Instead they give us Ipad95. ALL HAIL IPAD95.


It's the monolithic ruthless"Elite" who has the control of where this technology/academics of the technology goes and has for a long time. It does not look good in the least if we continue on this path letting them control the channels of technology and science, healthcare etc.... History keeps repeating itself, time and time again these "Elite" suppress the amazing potential of these technologies and have for YEARS AND YEARS. Again, if placed in the right hands or pushed down the right path all of these things Energy/DNA manipulation/AI/ etc all could propel humanity beyond anyone's wildest imagination.
Qft. This guy gets it.

[hatelore]

You think there is a coincidence that most of the world's food is produced in the USA and Canada? Are GMO's any more revolutionary than, say, crop rotation was when it was introduced?

How can you even compare the two? I'm lost. Crop rotation was a technology invented to produce more and better crops every year. GMO is the injection/restructuring and splicing of a food source in the attempt to bolster it or make it more resistant to pests. GMO technology has been proven in many studies to be unhealthy on many levels (humans,land,livestock, and so on)

[Korisek]

How can you even compare the two? I'm lost. Crop rotation was a technology invented to produce more and better crops every year. GMO is the injection/restructuring and splicing of a food source in the attempt to bolster it or make it more resistant to pests. GMO technology has been proven in many studies to be unhealthy on many levels (humans,land,livestock, and so on)

Crop Rotation was a procedure designed to keep the crops that a community was growing from removing all of the required nutrients from the soil they were being grown on. It came about to promote longevity of tilling fields. The effect on the produce itself was healthier crops, but not more.

Genetic Modification has thus far made for healthier, hardier, and/or more productive crops.

I agree that comparing the two is silly. Neither replaces the other, they are complementary with each other. Comparing crop rotation to hydroponics would be more fitting, as both involve the soil (or lack thereof) rather than the crop itself.

[Reapin]

The United States wastes more than enough food each year to stop world hunger, the problem isn't about there being enough food, it's about distribution and control of the food. The problem isn't with "Genetic Modification" as a science.

However what they are doing is just randomly jamming in the modified DNA where ever the fuck they want basically rolling the dice and seeing the results on us, human guinea pigs. Could they do amazing things with genetic modification,if pointed in the other direction, of course. Will they do that though? It's highly un-likely.

I mean look at cars for example, we can easily run a fuckin' car powered off hydrogen extracted from water at an extremely low cost. Will they do that? OF COURSE NOT, it doesn't translate into massive piles of plati....errr dollars. The same thing could be said about energy in general, the research and science is there, but what do those at the top do?? They keep us fuckin' strapped to petroleum/coal/nuclear so they can reap trillions of dollars in profit. OR look at what was done with Tesla, he wanted to give free wireless energy to everyone, what happened, he was bankrupted and his research facility burnt and his work stolen so those who had a play in the energy field could supress that knowledge and reap billions off it. The same thing is being done with genetic modification to our food. They are using it to make trillions / control the food supply / keep us down and sick / They are not using it for the good of mankind, like most technological advances as of late. Instead they give us Ipad95. ALL HAIL IPAD95.

It's the monolithic ruthless"Elite" who has the control of where this technology/academics of the technology goes and has for a long time. It does not look good in the least if we continue on this path letting them control the channels of technology and science, healthcare etc.... History keeps repeating itself, time and time again these "Elite" suppress the amazing potential of these technologies and have for YEARS AND YEARS. Again, if placed in the right hands or pushed down the right path all of these things Energy/DNA manipulation/AI/ etc all could propel humanity beyond anyone's wildest imagination.



Overpopulation is the problem. The good news is nature always finds a way to balance out.

--------

New virus called a global threat

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/health/france-coronavirus-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The world needs to pull together its resources to properly tackle the virus, said the World Health Organization chief. The SARS-like virus has killed 23 people. "We understand too little about this virus," she said.

-----

She is wrong. The best thing we can do is spread this shit around.

[hatelore]

Crop Rotation was a procedure designed to keep the crops that a community was growing from removing all of the required nutrients from the soil they were being grown on. It came about to promote longevity of tilling fields. The effect on the produce itself was healthier crops, but not more.

Genetic Modification has thus far made for healthier, hardier, and/or more productive crops.

I agree that comparing the two is silly. Neither replaces the other, they are complementary with each other. Comparing crop rotation to hydroponics would be more fitting, as both involve the soil (or lack thereof) rather than the crop itself.

So you will take healthier ( which it isn't if it isn't natural in my opinion and filled with pestisides) crops over naturally grown crops without all of the modifications? One thing we have learned from science is, its only as modern as its day and age. There are a ton of things we probably will not know scientifically for years about gmo grown crops.

I think I would rather stick to non gmo crops. I fully understand that yeah, they still get the topical pestisides, but most of that is able to be washed off on certain fruits and vegetables. You can't wash off a crop that is engineered to make its own pesticides to combat insects etc.

[hatelore]

And in essence you basically said the same thing as me, just a little more technical lol. And yes, it would produce more in the overall grand scheme of things if it was a healthier crop. lol

[smokemon]

Overpopulation is the problem. The good news is nature always finds a way to balance out.

--------

New virus called a global threat

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/28/health/france-coronavirus-death/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

The world needs to pull together its resources to properly tackle the virus, said the World Health Organization chief. The SARS-like virus has killed 23 people. "We understand too little about this virus," she said.

-----

She is wrong. The best thing we can do is spread this shit around.

False. People with your distorted perception of humanity are the problem. I have an awesome idea for you though, check it. You can take your own advice and thinking and apply it inwardly. That would help solve a lot of the worlds problems. THANK YOU COME AGAIN. :eek:

[Versus]

Get a fucking job.

[Versus]

If you have a job, be more productive than creating 5 new RnF threads a day about various topics so internet people think you have an opinion about shit.

[Hasbinbad]

The effect on the produce itself was healthier crops, but not more.
Healthier than what?

I think you meant to say "healthy," implying that they are as healthy as normal crops, but this would not produce crops that were "healthier" than normal crops grown on non-depleted soil.

Crop rotation was invented to fix the devastation caused to soil ecosystems by monoculture.

At present, there is massive research into how to keep monoculture viable. This, in fact, drives a lot of GMO R&D, and certainly much of modern horticultural science.

They say you should let your children play in the dirt to pick up immunities. The outcome you're trying to avoid by this truism is a bubble boy - someone who has never been exposed to the microlife all around us, and who will probably now have a bad reaction if exposed to the world. Well, Monsanto et al have been making bubble corn for the longest fucking time. Sterilized fields, antibiotics, chemicals to prevent infection.. all in an effort to protect these now extremely delicate organisms from dying by way of the normal world. Now they are trying to introduce traits from other organisms to make these sick plants live, because all the chemicals in the world aren't working. Farmers have inadvertantly developed monocultures of superbugs that you can't just kill anymore by killing off the variety of life (the superbugs competition).

Stripping the ground of nutrients is only the tip of the iceberg of the idiocy of modern farming.

There ARE good reasons to be strongly against Monsanto, "GMOs R EVIL" is not one of them.

Very little if any of the GMO research is being done to make food better than normal, it's mostly being done to make food plants survive the hellish world they've created for them.

[Hasbinbad]

The future:

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[Hitchens]

http://i.imgur.com/hHh9VrB.jpg

[Hasbinbad]

Hitchens just because YOU are a sucker doesn't mean other people need to live like that.

[Hitchens]

Fair enough pal, but not everyone's mom is willing to let them live with her forever.

[Hasbinbad]

Fair enough pal, but not everyone's mom is willing to let them live with her forever.
The American experiment of nuclear families shedding 18 year olds is not something that, by way of comparison, I find salient to my situation.

[Hitchens]

Well, that's one way to make being a manchild sound noble.

[Strifer]

Well, that's one way to make being a manchild sound noble.
forsooth

[Hasbinbad]

Well, that's one way to make being a manchild sound noble.
define manchild

[Hitchens]

Someone who expects others to take their advice on life seriously when they themselves live a life of pampered luxury with little to no responsibilities.

[Hasbinbad]

Oh ok, so you're talking about someone else.

[Hasbinbad]

I mean, I do live a life of pampered luxury with leather bound books and rooms that smell of aged mahogany and cognac, but I have responsibilities to match such a life.

[Hitchens]

http://i.imgur.com/2UvnYTF.png

[Hasbinbad]

http://i.imgur.com/eY8TQLk.jpg

[Korisek]

Healthier than what?

I think you meant to say "healthy," implying that they are as healthy as normal crops, but this would not produce crops that were "healthier" than normal crops grown on non-depleted soil.

Crop rotation was invented to fix the devastation caused to soil ecosystems by monoculture.

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying in the post you quoted. Complete with me saying that crops grown with crop rotation were healthier than crops grown on depleted soil.

So, pardon my French, but c'est quoi ce bordel? :confused:

[Kagatob]

Genetic Modification has thus far made for healthier, hardier, and/or more productive crops.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.
Stop being blind, your super tomato gives you next to no nutritional reward compared to eating real food.

http://www.wakingtimes.com/2013/04/18/comparing-vitamin-mineral-and-energy-content-of-gmo-vs-non-gmo/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/04/30/monsanto-gmo-corn.aspx
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1880145,00.html

[Hasbinbad]

That's pretty much exactly what I was saying in the post you quoted. Complete with me saying that crops grown with crop rotation were healthier than crops grown on depleted soil.

So, pardon my French, but c'est quoi ce bordel? :confused:
They are no healthier than their natural state. They are healthier than they otherwise would be, in their fucked up monoculture state. These are two different things. Do you understand that with English as a second language or should I explain what I mean further so that we can at least agree on what each other means? (not sarcastic)

[Korisek]

They are no healthier than their natural state. They are healthier than they otherwise would be, in their fucked up monoculture state. These are two different things. Do you understand that with English as a second language or should I explain what I mean further so that we can at least agree on what each other means? (not sarcastic)

I think the meaning you're thinking of for "healthier" is the meaning I think of for "more nutritious," whereas the meaning I had in mind was more along the lines of "in good health, not being sick or weakened by substandard soil conditions."

Also yes I took my sweet time getting back to this thread.

[Hasbinbad]

No, I meant the health of the plant. Nutritious is another often wrongly used word.

[hatelore]

http://www.upworthy.com/hard-working-monsanto-lawyers-need-your-help-standing-up-to-american-farmers