Not even sure why the Devs put up with all this

[Uggme]

If even half the things in this forum are true, then I truly don't know what the deal is!

Perhaps they care less now, or they're too busy getting Velious ready... but from the stuff I've read here (specifically the things indicating what kind of "character" TMO's Guildleader is, Zeelot) things seem to really be in a bad spot. Why would the devs let one man and one guild run an entire server?!

I've only been playing on the server for the past 3 weeks (having a lot of fun, I might add) but what I see on here is worrysome. specifically the following:

1. I don't care if you've been in a guild from day one - your ALT doesn't get gear before a main does. I don't care if you spend hours or even days tracking. Your alt comes second after mains. This has been completely abandoned by TMO and for some reason everyone in guild is ok with it?? This sets a horrible precedent for sure.

2. Treating a raid zone like your own personal sales forum is particurally deplorable. It makes those working their way up, or even those already up but on the outside think you're in this for reasons other than having fun. which brings me to point #3

3. Reputation of most raiding guilds seem to be in the shitter. Especially TMO's. If they have even 1/3 the wealth they claim to have, then it wouldn't take a PR Genius to turn things around. nor would it even make a dent in thier, apparently, vast and deep pockets. If such incredible control is already exerted by TMO over high end content they could just as easily facilitate pleasant and fun relations with other guilds instead of heartlessly dominating anyone "not on the inside".

In the end, I think some heavy handedness by our lovely team that built this place could fix it. But, why aren't they? I don't think I've been playing on here long enough to figure it out.

[nilbog]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

[Strifer]

Welcome to RnF! Where everything is made up and the points don't matter! That's right, any valid points are currently worth as much as Platlord's old spreadsheet.

please be prepared to do this a lot in your new ventures here.

http://i.imgur.com/DGPkCdf.gif

[Alarti0001]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

[Nirgon]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums from certain people.

[Funkutron5000]

I see what you did there. Because, well, you bolded it.

[Hasbinbad]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.
Variance specifically favors the zerg.

[radditsu]

How do they deal with it? Easy...they don't play. They have fun and enjoy themselves coding and scripting things for you to enjoy. They have no dog in the fight. Topic should be "Not sure why all the GM's put up with Bullshit". GM's have to login and talk to people, and deal with their little problems.

[Uggme]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere...

Shouldn't need to - This I understand. But I do recall during my classic experience that the Devs DID interfere when necessary.

I frankly find it disturbingly petty and childish for a group of people to dominate a freely run project. I seriously envision a group of children in the sandbox hogging all of the toy trucks and neat action figures. Instead of sharing and having fun with everyone, they ask the other kids for a piece of candy in return for a broken hotwheel.

It might not be as bad as it looks while reading RnF, but if a person or guild is mucking up the place, don't you feel it would be for the betterment of your own project to intervene?

Just a thought :) oh and dude - seriously do love this place thus far. You and your team have gone above and beyond for this project. /clap

[Skope]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

nilbog, but extending the variance has only worsened some of this.

Simulated patch days are great as it's the only semblance of the true EQ raiding spirit this server has (once every few months...), but that's only one problem here.

The variance, from the beginning, was set to deter the exact behavior that's happening now with the notion that nobody would would partake in poopsocks & whatever else, yet that's exactly what's been happening since the Spring of 2010. Surely three years of a failed experiment (coincidentally, some of the people pushing for that variance ended up getting nicked for SEQ) is enough to conclude that it's failed.

Instead of twisting the classic raid scene to benefit a tiny portion of the idiotic population - that happens to cause you the majority of the problems - it might be a good idea to actually implement classic rules. Just sayin'

[kotton05]

Nilbog- keep up the good work best emu server out there!!!!

Sirken- cool ass gm

Both of the above provide us with services they don't have to. So it'd be cool to encourage good work.

OP is new so he will figure things out, just they lay of the land my friend. As for TMO they just capitalists, can't fault them for that!

[Daldolma]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

p99 variance = non-classic mechanic that greatly favors the zerg and in fact incentivizes zerging over competing

let's be real, tmo is the squeaky wheel. actually fixing endgame to match classic would cause too many headaches when they nerdrage

[Godefroi]

we set rules inspired by classic eq

With all due respect, kunark didn't last 2 years, with guilds training each other to keep them from unlocking content. Worst, no guild were retarded enough to "sell" content for platinium like TMO does.

I'm all in for "dethroning" by uniting, it's what makes EQ great, but saying you don't want to involve yourself to respect classic EQ rules is totally biaised, since progression on classic was high, and it isn't at all on p99, that where the binds between classic EQ and P99 stops.

Thank god ST is a CSR zone.

[Tecmos Deception]

Why would the devs let one man and one guild run an entire server?!

Lol.

You people.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Classic could be a real bitch. I know Quellious, my old server, went through phases of domination and then dethroning. And really, what can you do about a zerg guild? Zerg is zerg. The only tactic has *always* been to figur out a way of knocking from their cheaply purchased perch. Either via a temporary dethroning alliance (how we did it on Quellious) or shunning them until people no longer really want to join them.

As to loot rules, again, TMO seems to enjoy taking every bad idea from classic and making that it's SOP. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would want to join a "loot council" guild. I have never seen one that can't be traced to extensive, and humiating, demends for cyber on demand in exchange for a spot on the award list. But maybe that is what turns the people in TMO on. Maybe they like to cyber fellate an officer in order to get their pixels. I don't judge. Life is full of mystery and wonder.

But these are not anything that should bother you. There are so many kinds of players on this server. You say you just started; I would wait till you get to the point you want to raid before I got too worried.

As to what a gm can do? That is tough. The things you mention are all issues that happened in classic. But I would say, the GM's have a right to make the server as dynamic and chaotic as they want. The "veteran players" say they will leave, but they won't. Not in any significant number. In any event, who would care if they did? So what? They are just farming at this point anyway, they are not contributing to the community in any way. What is needed is more new players. And that would be the argument for radical end-game solutions.

I have never understood why GM's didn't become more of a pain in the neck to zerging, loot counciling, cyber demanding guilds. Take control of a NPC. Give it an ae rampage. Give it a damage shield that casts an ae gate spell. Have some fun. The Lords of P99 will whine, but that is how they play the refs, and is just a bunch of nothing. They will fight on.

Messing with top guilds *is* classic. Before SOE demanded that # subs > anything else, GM's used to fuck with guilds that got too comfortable with their routines. Just randomly port groups to Odus always worked pretty well. Oh, and put a npc with an instan recast DT in the fire pot room. That one always is good for a laugh and a few deleveled zergers.

[OforOppression]

Something about using the font "Arial Black" and then changing the color to "Plum" upsets me.

[Raavak]

Classic could be a real bitch. I know Quellious, my old server, went through phases of domination and then dethroning.Yeah. TMO wasn't the first guild to dominate the server. It probably won't be the last (but I sure hope it reigns for a long, long time lol). The way mobs pop and loot drops causes a scarcity which encourages people to band together to help each other get it. There will almost always be a dominant guild. Its Classic.

[Ele]

I like to imagine that this is some grand doctorate level thesis/experiment to determine how people come together and form a community, or lack thereof, when left to their own devices.

[Funkutron5000]

Lack thereof it is!

[Autotune]

I know when I read the words " I don't really know what is going on, because I am knew" I am going to get an accurate opinion on things.

[Autotune]

new*

[Uggme]

I know when I read the words " I don't really know what is going on, because I am knew" I am going to get an accurate opinion on things.

I know that you've been banned for cheating / RMTing and that your opinion means nothing on these forums. Took me about a minute or so to figure that one out.

[kotton05]

Yeah. TMO wasn't the first guild to dominate the server. It probably won't be the last (but I sure hope it reigns for a long, long time lol). The way mobs pop and loot drops causes a scarcity which encourages people to band together to help each other get it. There will almost always be a dominant guild. Its Classic.

great point, TMO came into this scenario so its unfair to claim its just their fault.

Its classic.

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

If your new to the server dont bother reading RNF will just shit up your mind to not play here. Just enjoy what they have done here for a free project and forget these basement dwellers.

[Hasbinbad]

IB wasn't able to dominate vs Transcendence once they reached a fairly even playing field (i.e. IB dominated early on, but trans caught up) until variance was implemented.

Via the poopsock method, any guild with a minimum of geared people willing to put x number of people on a spawn point until y specific time can get a target. Via variance, guilds must recruit enough geared out people "available at xyz timeframe(s)" to have an instant showing of that many geared out people whenever the mob decides to spawn. This makes TMO get everything they want simply because they have a larger pool of geared out people.

"But HBB," you say, "surely TMO would sit 15 people on every raid mob in the game and get them anyway!"

Yeah, but at least then they'd need to put out effort to get these mobs. The way it's set up now, it's extremely easy for them to sit on top taunting everyone else with a minimum of effort and extremely difficult for anyone else to break in for even the most menial of mobs.

[Clark]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

Flooding server with items though. We never got this for IB/DA/Transcendence. Although I do like nothing being in window for 3 days afterwards. Less of a time sink in regards to sitting on boss spawns and tracking.

[nuglord]

Although I do like nothing being in window for 3 days afterwards. Less of a time sink in regards to sitting on boss spawns and tracking.

completely agree, i'm all about this! love the 3 days after repop where its all calm. keeps it somewhat casual and lets people that have lives go out and live them :D

[Hasbinbad]

none of which is classic

[kotton05]

The new variance hurts guilds that are up and coming. But ends poopsocking. I like it but it sure tests your will. I've seen taken get drained by sev. Repops are ok but it must happen at euro times as well. Only a prime time repop really isn't the way to go imo.

[Splorf22]

As to loot rules, again, TMO seems to enjoy taking every bad idea from classic and making that it's SOP. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would want to join a "loot council" guild. I have never seen one that can't be traced to extensive, and humiating, demends for cyber on demand in exchange for a spot on the award list. But maybe that is what turns the people in TMO on. Maybe they like to cyber fellate an officer in order to get their pixels. I don't judge. Life is full of mystery and wonder.

hehehehehe

[Tasslehofp99]

Easy Solution: Everyone Vs TMO until they give in to the demands of the people.:D

[vulzol]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration. We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

Even you can admit nilbog that P1999 would be much better off as a whole without TMO.

[vulzol]

With all due respect, kunark didn't last 2 years, with guilds training each other to keep them from unlocking content. Worst, no guild were retarded enough to "sell" content for platinium like TMO does.

I'm all in for "dethroning" by uniting, it's what makes EQ great, but saying you don't want to involve yourself to respect classic EQ rules is totally biaised, since progression on classic was high, and it isn't at all on p99, that where the binds between classic EQ and P99 stops.

Thank god ST is a CSR zone.

So you've noticed all the TMO selling epics in EC? They're basically doing all the content and expecting everybody else to pay them for it. Where does all this plat go?

[Alarti0001]

Easy Solution: Everyone Vs TMO until they give in to the demands of the people.:D

FE recruitment policy.

[Kagatob]

Ill keep this short since I'm using my phone, but we set rules inspired by classic eq. It is within the power of the people to dethrone by collaboration.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but to me this translates to: If you don't like TMO's way of doing things you should get your own group together to do things the same way only harder.

We shouldn't need to interfere..but hopefully a simulated patch day respawn addition will help in regards to raid npcs. Also, don't believe everything u read on the forums.

This however I can stand by 100% as at least a step in the right direction.

[Frieza_Prexus]

If even half the things in this forum are true, then I truly don't know what the deal is!

Perhaps they care less now, or they're too busy getting Velious ready... but from the stuff I've read here (specifically the things indicating what kind of "character" TMO's Guildleader is, Zeelot) things seem to really be in a bad spot. Why would the devs let one man and one guild run an entire server?!

Don't let the forums be your sole source of information. It is undeniably true that TMO has an extremely strong influence upon the raid scene, and this extends to Zeelot as the visible head of the guild. But you cannot draw a full picture of his character from the picture demonstrated here. In reality, Zee is actually a pretty laid back guy that set the machine up and lets it function without an untoward amount of micromanaging.

It is a stretch, of the Armstrong-iest, kind to think that he has his tentacles deep in the server and that he cackles maniacally while manipulating everything just to watch it burn. In reality, his view of the game is that of a very competitive end game, and that's what he plays for. He's also a pretty nice guy that cares about the guild as an organization, and he goes out of his way to help people, TMO or otherwise.

1. I don't care if you've been in a guild from day one - your ALT doesn't get gear before a main does. I don't care if you spend hours or even days tracking. Your alt comes second after mains. This has been completely abandoned by TMO and for some reason everyone in guild is ok with it?? This sets a horrible precedent for sure.

This is an internal matter for the guild, and not something that is really any particular concern of the server staff to allow of disallow. Other guilds also have no business concerning themselves with TMO's internal policy on the matter. That said, here's the logic behind the system which has worked very well so far. (Yes, there have been major hiccups, but the system still prospers despite them.)

I'm sure you've read Zeelot's recent thread regarding TMO's loot policy and you'll notice that it is a council-based system that keeps meticulous records for informational purposes (the records are never "binding" on the council's decisions but are considered highly persuasive). TMO's loot structure is meant to be a balance between the realistic needs of a raiding guild and individual achievement. Initially, we strongly favored mains over alts to the point of near absurdity, and we used to hold to the, very classicEQ, concept of handing out anything that dropped to someone at the raid if that main could use it no matter who they are. We have lost 3(4?) Donal's BP and other extremely valuable items to such a setup over time, and those losses are the origins of the DKP requirements to be awarded certain high-end items. The system ensures a high probability that the item will be used, long term, to help the guild while still rewarding individual efforts.

In classic EQ, the expansions came out fast enough so that you were almost always working on your main character, thus guilds tied benefits to characters and not players. On live, you were one of a small handfull of ultra-elite players if you had full "best in slot" gear at any time. P99 is unique in that the leveling up and "best in slot" progression is much faster here due to slower content releases, a VERY experienced player base, and account sales. For good or bad, those factors have caused a situation where it is more beneficial for both players and the guild to tie loot awards to players and not characters.

Consider a long-term member with over 1500 DKP (0.5 dkp / tracking hour & 1 dkp for each "boss kill"). This member has three level 60's one of which is a brand-new cleric that he just hit level 60 on. This member has an 80% attendance rate, and he has not received any loot since 2 months before the other player (below) joined the guild. There is a new member with 20% lifetime attendance and 50 DKP. A Donal's BP drops and only those two can use it. One is a "main" as and the other is an "alt" if you go by strict definitions. Who should get the BP in light of the above facts?

This situation is why TMO recognizes players and not characters when awarding loot. Otherwise, situations occur that will cause awards to "characters" by default due to their status as "mains," despite another "player" with an "alt" being far more "deserving" in the eyes of the guild's council. (Did I just use "too many" quotation marks?)

2. Treating a raid zone like your own personal sales forum is particurally deplorable. It makes those working their way up, or even those already up but on the outside think you're in this for reasons other than having fun.

I addressed this subject fairly recently here:http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=945551&postcount=105

But I'll say a few words here as a codicil as well. Every single dragon in VP still drops loot that is greatly desired by raiding TMO characters. These dragons are killed primarily for those items. The rotting loot is sold as an incidental benefit that would otherwise be "money left on the table."

Yes, it is commendable to announce rots as FFA at large, but not obligatory from any ethical standpoint. I agree that it would be in bad form to kill those mobs strictly for monetary benefit. Every single raid mob still killed today drops items of value. Even Vox drops the extremely desirable rez stick, and Nagafen drops prayers of life and bladestoppers all of which are given to mains upon dropping.


3. Reputation of most raiding guilds seem to be in the shitter. Especially TMO's. If they have even 1/3 the wealth they claim to have, then it wouldn't take a PR Genius to turn things around. nor would it even make a dent in thier, apparently, vast and deep pockets. If such incredible control is already exerted by TMO over high end content they could just as easily facilitate pleasant and fun relations with other guilds instead of heartlessly dominating anyone "not on the inside".

When I first started playing here, I remember seeing Nagafen spawned and downed in under 15 minutes flat. I didn't know who killed it, I'm not sure how they did it so fast, and I didn't know exactly why.

I hated them.

Honestly, I think I was jealous or perhaps simply being petty. I don't know. My point is that I had a completely irrational hatred for those mysterious people on top that I had never even met. It's perfectly natural to expect some dislike merely based upon that factor. Couple this with RnF and some... interesting personalities, and you'll have a recipe for a hate machine. Certainly, TMO could do more to improve its reputation, and there are many instances where both the guild as a whole and individual members do things that hurt the reputation. But these must all be considered holistically. What is earned versus what is simply assigned by human nature?

Only after I made a conscious decision to understand the motivations surrounding the endgame did I understand it, and I think that if you take the time to investigate it thoroughly you might have a finding or two that surprises you.

[Autotune]

I know that you've been banned for cheating / RMTing and that your opinion means nothing on these forums. Took me about a minute or so to figure that one out.

See, clueless person has incorrect information and spouts of his retarded opinions.

This is one of those Harrison followers that likes to drink kool-aid.

[Kagatob]

See, clueless person has incorrect information and spouts of his retarded opinions.

This is one of those Harrison followers that likes to drink kool-aid.

Woah woah woah.

Why hating on Kool-Aid? :eek:

Granted it's no Ecto-Cooler, but I still loved it as a kid.

[purist__]

Category:Beggars
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This category lists people who make, or for some time in their lives made, their living by begging for pity hand-outs on the internet because they can't provide for their own families.

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Pages in category "Beggars"

H

Harrison

[Autotune]

Autotune, was your account banned for cheating? Yes.

Don't try to spin your lies about some grand conspiracy. No one is buying it.

No, my account was banned because of an MQ flag, a flag/ban that had been lifted from other accounts.

They have nothing of me cheating with MQ, because I never did.

[finalgrunt]

No, my account was banned because of an MQ flag, a flag/ban that had been lifted from other accounts.

They have nothing of me cheating with MQ, because I never did.

Accounts get magically flagged for MQ. Nobody uses MQ.

[vulzol]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but to me this translates to: If you don't like TMO's way of doing things you should get your own group together to do things the same way only harder.



This however I can stand by 100% as at least a step in the right direction.


Yeah I guess the problem is most people don't really care enough to put in excessive amounts of effort for pixels especially when TMO is at the point where their machine is so well oiled. Finding skilled and dedicated players who care to fight an uphill battle outside of TMO is fairly difficult as well

Props to Zeelot though he knows how to get people to be happy doing bitch work for him.

[Visual]

I hate all TMO including myself

[falkun]

FE recruitment policy.

And TMO's before that.

[raff01]

Nilbog. I've played classic too...And as far as I can remember, there was a thing called PnP which EVERYONE was agreeing to by clicking OK in the EULA.
PnP means Play Nice Policy, and it meant that when certain people, including a whole guild, didn't give a single fuck about the rest of the people and ruined the fun of the rest of the people, there would be a GM intervention, and sometimes, a whole guild would be disbanded. I have witnessed it, so please stop hiding behind the "its not classic to intervene" argument.
One thing this server needs is to bring back the PnP.

[xarzzardorn]

killing mobs isn't a violation of the pnp you fucking moron lol

[nuglord]

I hate all TMO including myself

hey now. dats not nice!

[kotton05]

Accounts get magically flagged for MQ. Nobody uses MQ.

Just time machines made of duct tape

[raff01]

killing mobs isn't a violation of the pnp you fucking moron lol

actually it is depending on how you do it you fucktard.

[Autotune]

Just time machines made of duct tape

It's how all are magically MQ flagged.

[vulzol]

Nilbog. I've played classic too...And as far as I can remember, there was a thing called PnP which EVERYONE was agreeing to by clicking OK in the EULA.
PnP means Play Nice Policy, and it meant that when certain people, including a whole guild, didn't give a single fuck about the rest of the people and ruined the fun of the rest of the people, there would be a GM intervention, and sometimes, a whole guild would be disbanded. I have witnessed it, so please stop hiding behind the "its not classic to intervene" argument.
One thing this server needs is to bring back the PnP.

If it's not pure mechanics then nilbog doesn't really care. His belief is the recreation of classic EverQuest rests in the coding only and what the players make of it is what the players make of it.

This logic is, however, inconsistent, as VP is a no GM zone like it was on live.

PnP was indeed a real thing though and totally classic. In fact, it WOULD be classic for GMs to dissolve TMO for ruining the server for everybody else as it violates the PnP.

[Autotune]

If it's not pure mechanics then nilbog doesn't really care. His belief is the recreation of classic EverQuest rests in the coding only and what the players make of it is what the players make of it.

This logic is, however, inconsistent, as VP is a no GM zone like it was on live.

PnP was indeed a real thing though and totally classic. In fact, it WOULD be classic for GMs to dissolve TMO for ruining the server for everybody else as it violates the PnP.

GMs, Please dissolve the top guild so we can lose to the next top guild that the ex-TMO people make.

Just give it up, you can have kunark when TMO is wrecking velious

[vulzol]

GMs, Please dissolve the top guild so we can lose to the next top guild that the ex-TMO people make.

Just give it up, you can have kunark when TMO is wrecking velious

Disband any hardcore guild that takes all the raid mobs. THIS IS SPARTA!!!!

[Kagatob]

GMs, Please dissolve the top guild so we can lose to the next top guild that the ex-TMO people make.

Way to take what he said out of context. Dissolving TMO would involve banning all of the offenders, whatever 'replaced' TMO would be a far cry from the troublemaker that TMO is.

[Autotune]

Way to take what he said out of context. Dissolving TMO would involve banning all of the offenders, whatever 'replaced' TMO would be a far cry from the troublemaker that TMO is.

If you removed the few trouble makers in TMO, the guild would just get more people (People would probably jump ship from FE, I remember people saying that they'd join TMO back in the day if I weren't in it. Just imagine if Fazlazen was not in TMO, or Tortue for that matter.

Do you even TMO, bro?

[Autotune]

For the record, you can't remove "TMO"

IB was TMO before TMO was TMO, TMO just TMO'd the IB system into a bigger, better IB'D TMO.

What you numb nuts consider "TMO" anyhow.

[Kagatob]

If you removed the few trouble makers in TMO, the guild would just get more people (People would probably jump ship from FE, I remember people saying that they'd join TMO back in the day if I weren't in it. Just imagine if Fazlazen was not in TMO, or Tortue for that matter.

Do nothing as opposed to at least chipping away at the problem.

Nice motto to have.

[Autotune]

Do nothing as opposed to at least chipping away at the problem.

Nice motto to have.

It's not a problem for Nilbog (he doesn't care if you cry yourself to sleep over unobtainable pixels, that is a cold hard truth).

Rogean doesn't like people who cry over this game because it's not how the like it, just look at the variance.

Sirken isn't in a position to help you guys, nor is Ephi. However, they are your best chances at changing how things are done, but... that requires you to get TMO on board and you might as well just go bark at Rogean till he bans you.

[Kagatob]

It's not a problem for Nilbog (he doesn't care if you cry yourself to sleep over unobtainable pixels, that is a cold hard truth).

Rogean doesn't like people who cry over this game because it's not how the like it, just look at the variance.

Sirken isn't in a position to help you guys, nor is Ephi. However, they are your best chances at changing how things are done, but... that requires you to get TMO on board and you might as well just go bark at Rogean till he bans you.

Do nothing as opposed to at least chipping away at the problem.

Nice motto to have.

[Autotune]

blah

except you aren't really chipping away at any problem, unless you're actively beating TMO into submission. Last I heard, that wasn't happening.

[Kagatob]

except you aren't really chipping away at any problem, unless you're actively beating TMO into submission. Last I heard, that wasn't happening.

That will start happening when the offenders start getting banned and the accounts deleted. With that we have come full circle in the discussion.

[vulzol]

except you aren't really chipping away at any problem, unless you're actively beating TMO into submission. Last I heard, that wasn't happening.

Go away stealin you banned brah.

[Autotune]

That will start happening when the offenders start getting banned and the accounts deleted. With that we have come full circle in the discussion.

no one gets banned here, just long suspension.

Accounts will never get deleted, nor would they have to if they actually banned people.

You are going full circle into a place that you have no control over and you are given a fact that it won't change.

Change what you can bro, change yourself for the better.

[Autotune]

Go away stealin you banned brah.

I quit before I was banned, pretty sure it doesn't matter.

[Autotune]

To be perfectly straight with people, the first several months I played I didn't jump into raiding. I hung out with a small crew of people and just dominated lower guk and laughed it up.

I took a break and when I returned a friend offered for me to join him in this new guild The Mystical Order. I got in and raided with them some, but still had the mindset that variance was gay, so I mostly skipped all that poopsocking and bullshit then. Couple months went by I took another break while Kunark was being released and missed the first few months of it. When I came back TMO was going hardcore and had done some merging or whatever, server was pretty gay with guild drama then. More targets = more raiding and less waiting so I jumped in.

Now I'll have you know there were only a few altercations that I was involved in prior to me starting to raid seriously in Kunark. Like stealing boogies from VD (because they were sitting on spawn points) and training douchebags in Lguk.

When I started raiding seriously and seeing all what IB was doing, I was like, "WOW!" I did not seriously know you could do this shit. That's when the game started getting awesome for me, it was like a Wild West MMO with faggoty little elves. The Sheriffs don't really give a shit as long as you don't come crying to them or they aren't there to actually see it (even then they didn't seem to care sometimes)... out of sight, fuck it I don't wanna mind.

That is where it was all "downhill" for some. IB would pull some shit, TMO would have to pull more shit/better shit and that just kept going back and forth, to see who could take the biggest shit on the server. The shits never really bothered most of the server other than TMO/IB relations (To which most of us are actually pretty chill with each other, we are faggoty elf war bros now), but when it did there would be a slap on the wrist.

Then Amelinda got involved and fucked everything up, it became all about who could manipulate her the best/most and less about who could pull the most ninja ass bullshit.

[vulzol]

wtf this isn't therapy nobody cares on rnf

plz die

[quido]

Harrison you should go on a crusade again demanding TMO be banned for training in VP

moran

[Autotune]

Knew he was flagged
Sold account
Account got banned
Made up some conspiracy story to try and sound clean

You got caught. Man the fuck up, cheating scumbag.

Your logic is so terrible lol.

Knew I got flagged? Yeah, okay. You're saying I used MQ to cheat, but knew it would flag my account?

So I intentionally banned my account and I'm mad because my account got banned?

[Autotune]

No, the more believable story is some grand hacking conspiracy got you flagged and you (and TMO collectively) are just super clean legit people, innocent of all accusations.

Seriously, drop the act already. No one is buying it. You cheat on 14 year-old games you're awful at. Just fucking admit it already. You already quit.

Oh, no. The more believable story is that I flagged my 3 IPs once each purposely to get my account banned so I could quit a week later and then come back and complain about it whenever they finally chose to run the mass ban program again (which happened to be a month/two months later).

The same person who had it when it got banned is the same one that has had it since a year+ ago.

[Uggme]

Been meaning to respond to this.

This is an internal matter for the guild, and not something that is really any particular concern of the server staff to allow of disallow. Other guilds also have no business concerning themselves with TMO's internal policy on the matter. That said, here's the logic behind the system which has worked very well so far. (Yes, there have been major hiccups, but the system still prospers despite them.)

I'm sure you've read Zeelot's recent thread regarding TMO's loot policy and you'll notice that it is a council-based system that keeps meticulous records for informational purposes (the records are never "binding" on the council's decisions but are considered highly persuasive). TMO's loot structure is meant to be a balance between the realistic needs of a raiding guild and individual achievement. Initially, we strongly favored mains over alts to the point of near absurdity, and we used to hold to the, very classicEQ, concept of handing out anything that dropped to someone at the raid if that main could use it no matter who they are. We have lost 3(4?) Donal's BP and other extremely valuable items to such a setup over time, and those losses are the origins of the DKP requirements to be awarded certain high-end items. The system ensures a high probability that the item will be used, long term, to help the guild while still rewarding individual efforts.

In classic EQ, the expansions came out fast enough so that you were almost always working on your main character, thus guilds tied benefits to characters and not players. On live, you were one of a small handfull of ultra-elite players if you had full "best in slot" gear at any time. P99 is unique in that the leveling up and "best in slot" progression is much faster here due to slower content releases, a VERY experienced player base, and account sales. For good or bad, those factors have caused a situation where it is more beneficial for both players and the guild to tie loot awards to players and not characters.

Consider a long-term member with over 1500 DKP (0.5 dkp / tracking hour & 1 dkp for each "boss kill"). This member has three level 60's one of which is a brand-new cleric that he just hit level 60 on. This member has an 80% attendance rate, and he has not received any loot since 2 months before the other player (below) joined the guild. There is a new member with 20% lifetime attendance and 50 DKP. A Donal's BP drops and only those two can use it. One is a "main" as and the other is an "alt" if you go by strict definitions. Who should get the BP in light of the above facts?

This situation is why TMO recognizes players and not characters when awarding loot. Otherwise, situations occur that will cause awards to "characters" by default due to their status as "mains," despite another "player" with an "alt" being far more "deserving" in the eyes of the guild's council. (Did I just use "too many" quotation marks?)

Ok, so the short story is that the guild has been burned, in your opinion, by persons who do not put in the kind of effort you'd like. So, as punishment to regular players who do put in a lot of time (just not as much as you'd like) and to further benefit those with so much time / plat that they have alts, you implemented a rule allowing them to get loot ahead of mains. It's a justification alright. I still don't agree. And trust me, I'm an educated individual and quite open. This still stinks of elitism and corrupt rules for those who lead the guild, which set a horrible precedent for the rest of the server. If the guild is so fabulously rich and ahead of the game then it stands to risk gear on potentially strong relationships with members. Regardless, the Officer Award method on it's own clearly states the intention to gear only those the leadership deems worthy. There are biases. There are prejudices. What you are doing is blinding yourself to it.

I addressed this subject fairly recently here:http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=945551&postcount=105

But I'll say a few words here as a codicil as well. Every single dragon in VP still drops loot that is greatly desired by raiding TMO characters. These dragons are killed primarily for those items. The rotting loot is sold as an incidental benefit that would otherwise be "money left on the table."

Yes, it is commendable to announce rots as FFA at large, but not obligatory from any ethical standpoint. I agree that it would be in bad form to kill those mobs strictly for monetary benefit. Every single raid mob still killed today drops items of value. Even Vox drops the extremely desirable rez stick, and Nagafen drops prayers of life and bladestoppers all of which are given to mains upon dropping.

The fact that there is just one slightly needed item off of certain mobs is irrelevant. This is due to the fact that Zeelot has openly stated he makes sure loot doesn't rot because he sells it. It'd obvious this one one of the main reasons these mobs are killed. You're right, however, that it's not TMO's obligation to allow rots to simply given away. But the main issue actually lies in your own statement! That is you, and apparently the leadership, views rotting loot as "money left on the table". It's not. It's gear in a game. A free game, made for the enjoyment of many. Or is TMO and it's leadership so petty and conniving in it's attempt to stay on top by monopolizing everything that it can't remember that? It would be so easy for TMO to be significantly less monopolizing regarding this exact thing to accomplish.... what? Oh that's right, this brings me to the last point. -Engaging in the betterment of the server and the betterment of TMO's rep!

When I first started playing here, I remember seeing Nagafen spawned and downed in under 15 minutes flat. I didn't know who killed it, I'm not sure how they did it so fast, and I didn't know exactly why.

I hated them.

Honestly, I think I was jealous or perhaps simply being petty. I don't know. My point is that I had a completely irrational hatred for those mysterious people on top that I had never even met. It's perfectly natural to expect some dislike merely based upon that factor. Couple this with RnF and some... interesting personalities, and you'll have a recipe for a hate machine. Certainly, TMO could do more to improve its reputation, and there are many instances where both the guild as a whole and individual members do things that hurt the reputation. But these must all be considered holistically. What is earned versus what is simply assigned by human nature?

Only after I made a conscious decision to understand the motivations surrounding the endgame did I understand it, and I think that if you take the time to investigate it thoroughly you might have a finding or two that surprises you.

See, I don't hate TMO. I think they are run poorly, and the abscense of oversight has led it's leadership and to some degree the guild as a whole to think they can just do whatever the hell they want. In the end, I suppose they can. But those actions, if they negatively affect the server (which it appears they do) should go punished. They aren't by the guild's leadership. Some are even supported by the guild's leader! Thus, my original question in the title of this thread.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Ok, so the short story is that the guild has been burned, in your opinion, by persons who do not put in the kind of effort you'd like. So, as punishment to regular players who do put in a lot of time (just not as much as you'd like) and to further benefit those with so much time / plat that they have alts, you implemented a rule allowing them to get loot ahead of mains. It's a justification alright. I still don't agree. And trust me, I'm an educated individual and quite open. This still stinks of elitism and corrupt rules for those who lead the guild, which set a horrible precedent for the rest of the server. If the guild is so fabulously rich and ahead of the game then it stands to risk gear on potentially strong relationships with members. Regardless, the Officer Award method on it's own clearly states the intention to gear only those the leadership deems worthy. There are biases. There are prejudices. What you are doing is blinding yourself to it.

I fully agree with you that the current loot method is set up to be completely at the discretion of the decision makers, and that it is, potentially, quite dangerous. However, I disagree that such a system is damaging to the internal framework of the guild as a whole. Perhaps it does not foster as much "community" within the guild as some other manner of governance might, but it accomplishes its purposes: balancing player effort versus the needs of the organization.

The dangerous element is ameliorated by well-earned trust. Not only is half the loot council made of regular members, but its composition is dynamic. It's very bicameral. There's an established track record of reasonable decisions. Yes, there have been terrible calls, but the organization as a whole is still satisfied. Keep in mind a strong motivation for many in TMO is not so much the acquisition of individual gear, but the strengthening of the guild itself. A few months ago, I looked at a number of large loot calls and noted that if we were on a straight DKP system that many of our trackers could have purchased more gear than they've been awarded. It was my observation that this system succeeds, to a reasonable degree, at its goal of putting the organization somewhat first, or at least, or at least at keeping the overall needs as co-equal with the individual needs.

That said, this is still a strictly an internal matter, and I do not see a good reason for third parties to have any say in this matter. The precedent set within TMO's loot council has no impact upon the internal management of other guilds or the server in general.

The fact that there is just one slightly needed item off of certain mobs is irrelevant. This is due to the fact that Zeelot has openly stated he makes sure loot doesn't rot because he sells it. It'd obvious this one one of the main reasons these mobs are killed. You're right, however, that it's not TMO's obligation to allow rots to simply given away. But the main issue actually lies in your own statement! That is you, and apparently the leadership, views rotting loot as "money left on the table". It's not. It's gear in a game. A free game, made for the enjoyment of many. Or is TMO and it's leadership so petty and conniving in it's attempt to stay on top by monopolizing everything that it can't remember that? It would be so easy for TMO to be significantly less monopolizing regarding this exact thing to accomplish.... what? Oh that's right, this brings me to the last point. -Engaging in the betterment of the server and the betterment of TMO's rep!

This is really a matter of degree. We can turn the same logic around and deride any regular participant in the EC tunnel. We can apply the same standard to someone camping the fungi for cash. The issue is what motivates players and how they define enjoyment from the game. There are some players here who play the game strictly to trade in the EC tunnel, and some have become quite wealthy.

I agree that it would be bad form to kill things strictly for the cash, and if the items on that mob were minor upgrades at best the situation would be similar. However, these are VP dragons we're talking about and each one possess loot of an extremely desirable nature. Silverwing drops the PE hammer which many of our shamans lack still, Druushk drops the extremely coveted SoW sword, Hoshkar has the cleric stick and the haste boots, Nexona has the monk stick and the necro robe, Phara`Dar is self-explanatory, and Xygoz has the Druid Robe and the RSSS.

None of these dragons are anywhere near close to being unneeded in any serious capacity.

See, I don't hate TMO. I think they are run poorly, and the abscense of oversight has led it's leadership and to some degree the guild as a whole to think they can just do whatever the hell they want. In the end, I suppose they can. But those actions, if they negatively affect the server (which it appears they do) should go punished. They aren't by the guild's leadership. Some are even supported by the guild's leader! Thus, my original question in the title of this thread.

I'm uncertain as to what actions in specific you're talking about that TMO takes that harms the server. Note, I'm not disregarding that you may have valid complaints, but the nature of the discussion is defined by what those complaints are.

I'm guessing that you're talking about the categorical domination of raid content. There's two issues at play here. First, yes it is silly to kill something every single time when you reach a certain point. Individually, most players will freely admit that "endangered dragon lists" and things are quite beneficial to the server. (Yes, I know some view the lists as elitist table scraps; I'm just using it as one example of collaborative play for server health). However, raiders on the high-end play to compete and it is a demonstrable fact that when you start "losing," even temporarily, that your attendance numbers take a hit. It's quite interesting from a social and managerial perspective, but this leads to an impetus to take as many kills as possible to "keep the fire going" if you will.

Secondly, this server has a very entrenched way of doing things. This does not excuse any wrongful behavior, but it does mean that it is quite difficult to uproot certain practices. Additionally, some practices are in response to other issues, which were responses, and you have a cycle of recursion.

I submit that much of what you see is a public relations issue and not an actual situation of culpable in-game conduct. TMO and it's leadership certainly have culpable skeletons in their closets (some quite large), but their degree and quantity is frequently misconstrued in the public discourse.

[jpeute]

More wannabe lawyer spam to defend his cheating guild.

If u have nothing to say, say nothing...

[Kagatob]

moran

:(

[Kagatob]

Every time someone misspells moron Jesus eats a live kitten. :(

[Autotune]

people do it on purpose to troll people like you

It's a very common thing on P99 RnF too, makes it sad when others fall for it.

RNF newbs :(

[Bazia]

Every time someone misspells moron Jesus eats a live kitten. :(

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/35990624.jpg