Need to complain

[Grobbin]

I'm a recruiter for the Army . Doing time on active duty and having deployed I feel that I have some standards as far as who I should be enlisting. I just had a 45 minute conversation more like chewing out from a superior because I felt that an applicant wouldn't make a good soldier. His history made him ineligible to be a soldier in my eyes even though he was never caught for the things he did. I show morals and values and threats come to me to be fired.

Is it pathetic that Everquest these days lead to my only source of happiness?

[fogbound]

Just a thought, before I joined the service I was prolly not considered a model citizen, but the Military straighten my ass out in a hurry, sometimes thats what sets a person on a new path in life, It doesnt always work out that way...but for some it does.

[eqgamer]

Is it really all that shocking to you that it happened? Its your job to get anyone and everyone. If they look good on paper they don't give a fuck else. Shit, my recruiter was such a bastard that he wanted me to lie about having a previous injury and surgery when I joined...

They are just a number on a paper to the service, and in your line of work I'd say that using EverQuest as your escapism of choice is mild compared to turning into an alcoholic or hardcore drug user, which I'd probably have to do to cope with such scenarios.

[ClamSmasher22]

My recruiter told me to lie about some stuff I was never arrested for too. Don't know how the army is but the Corps was packed full of people with questionable backgrounds and morals. I came out much better for it.

I always assumed that recruiters took anyone that applied and tried to get them in, regardless of any issues that may disqualify them. What's the worst that happens, they get turned down at the MEPS?

When you got quotas to meet for a job that pays shit compared to it's civilian equivalent, what kind of people do you think that attracts?

[ClamSmasher22]

* When you got quotas to meet you fill them with anyone you can

[rockhopper]

To add to fogbound's point:

Grobbin, your job is to recruit, that's it. Don't sweat the quality. Is anyone off the street already a good soldier? No. It's the purpose of basic training to break down civilians and build up soldiers. Whether its emotional, physical, mental, or even moral, every recruit has issues that need to be straightened out to become what they need to be.

You recruit... let the mechanisms already in place mold soldiers.

[fogbound]

After reading this again I'm thinking it's a hoax....a recruiter with morals ...never heard of one...they would have screened you to make sure you didn't have any....or reajusted your thinking to get rid of them long before you became a recruiter. thats like saying you play a High Elf Necromancer.

[rockhopper]

I think my Marine recruiter had morals; at least he fulfilled his word to me.

I wanted an aviation job, but nothing was available at the time I was interested in enlisting. He convinced me that I could go ahead and sign on with an open contract, and he assured me that something would surely come up before I went to boot camp. I took a HUGE leap of faith and signed open contract.

Several months later he called me up and said he got me lined up for avionics. He didn't have to do that, he could've used that slot to snap up someone else, but he kept his word with me and gave me the slot.

I came that close to being a grunt, or truck driver, or artillery...

[ClamSmasher22]

...or bulk fuel tech

[MiRo2]

I'm a recruiter for the Army

I stopped reading after this, but just wanted to say, fuck you :D

[Riphen]

What's the worst that happens, they get turned down at the MEPS?

At best, the soldier makes something of them selves. Usually they just waist a lot of people's time as you eventually go through the pain in the ass process to push them out with an other than honorable discharge. At worst, shit bags get people killed.

[rioisk]

I lost faith in the US military when a couple of my friends came back from iraq with stories of how their fellow soldiers raped iraqi women and even their own fellow female soldiers. If they reported the atrocities, their fellow soldiers made sure they "didn't return" from the field one day.

Needless to say they're in heavy therapy + drugs now.

[Daywolf]

Just a thought, before I joined the service I was prolly not considered a model citizenNo one is, not one, not even recruiters. Everyone is screwed up, that's a fact, and anyone that thinks they are not, probably needs a padded cell.

I never enlisted, screw that. I almost did, then I heard Bush Sr. (pre-GW1) on the radio talking about his plans for putting women in the military, and reshaping the social structure of the military etc.. It's all too damn political for me, bunch of idealistic pansies in charge. Military is about crush, kill and destroy, not social experimentation. See? pointless, I'd never make General; wars are for winning. And you can tell that to Rolling Stone lol

[fogbound]

Well I'm old school Military, who knows what it's like these days, back then it was buck up or buck up...no choice, I can't imagine that with all the bleeding hearts today, that it's a different story all together.

[Simplistik]

A recruiter with Morales? (11b btw retired)

[Simplistik]

Might I add, I went through basic with three Soldiers that were convicted felons, one of witch was an armed robbery charge.

[regatta]

My recruiter before I joined the marines asked me when the last time I smoked marijuana was. I told him it was 2 weeks ago (when really it was like 2 days ago) and he took me to our local smoke shop and bought me stuff to drink so I could pass the test. So I passed and served. Not everyone who has prior offenses would make a bad soldier even they fought for what they believe in.

[soup]

This guy must be the worst recruiter ever lol

Not only did he turn someone away, but he did so "even though he was never caught for doing the things he did"? lolol

[Daywolf]

This guy must be the worst recruiter ever lol

Not only did he turn someone away, but he did so "even though he was never caught for doing the things he did"? lolol
Oh I wouldn't doubt he did something that he was never caught for. We have so many laws in the US, most people probably break some law daily and not even know it. I break laws, you break laws, the OP has broken laws, unless he lives in some fallout shelter from birth... and I'm sure that is probably illegal someplace. Personally, I'd rather have the guy watching my back that did something and figured out how not to get caught, eh? At least someone is on the ball lol

[fastboy21]

I don't mean this as any offense to the military for the job they do, but you have to realize that enlisted man is (through out modern history in most countries) a grunt, borderline criminal, uneducated, mailable piece of human existence.

Who do you expect to volunteer to risk their life for less pay than perfectly safe civilian jobs? This isn't a knock for the men and women who answer the call, it's the reality of the nature of our military and its true (unimagined) place in our social strata.

The military is a place in our society where the those on the very bottom have a chance to raise themselves up a few notches out of the gutter...or not.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I don't mean this as any offense to the military for the job they do, but you have to realize that enlisted man is (through out modern history in most countries) a grunt, borderline criminal, uneducated, mailable piece of human existence.

Who do you expect to volunteer to risk their life for less pay than perfectly safe civilian jobs? This isn't a knock for the men and women who answer the call, it's the reality of the nature of our military and its true (unimagined) place in our social strata.

The military is a place in our society where the those on the very bottom have a chance to raise themselves up a few notches out of the gutter...or not.

I hate to say it, but this is specific to America. Many first world countries have mandatory government service, whether civil or military, for all young people. With a strictly volunteer military, it's no surprise that the American military attracts a lot of young people with troubled or violent pasts or very poor economic backgrounds. It's also no surprise that some of them then go on to commit atrocities in other countries.

I think this is a systemic flaw which the OP attempted to correct on an individual level. I respect him for his attempt to do the right thing, but the ridicule for his idealism is not much of a surprise.

[fastboy21]

You're kidding yourself if you think that the people in the military in other countries aren't the dregs of their societies. Yes, the mandatory civil/military service is a very good point...but, it doesn't change the types of people in the military of many "first world" industrialized European countries either. Putting America into this boat alone is an error.

The fact is simple, and exists everywhere---even in places that have mandatory service, the military is not paid in a fair way retrospect to the demand of the job...so who, in any society, is going to agree to live badly, risk their life daily, and get very little pay for doing so??? Its the folks on the bottom who have no options.

[soup]

You're kidding yourself if you think that the people in the military in other countries aren't the dregs of their societies. Yes, the mandatory civil/military service is a very good point...but, it doesn't change the types of people in the military of many "first world" industrialized European countries either. Putting America into this boat alone is an error.

The fact is simple, and exists everywhere---even in places that have mandatory service, the military is not paid in a fair way retrospect to the demand of the job...so who, in any society, is going to agree to live badly, risk their life daily, and get very little pay for doing so??? Its the folks on the bottom who have no options.

While the people you describe certainly do exist and make up a significant portion of the military, to imply that those are the only people who enlist is naive, at best.

[fastboy21]

I didn't imply that they are the only people. Anyone who has ever served in the military (as I have) can tell you the type of folks you are going to be meeting. I would say 1/2 to 2/3 of the people I went through basic with were borderline criminals that I wouldn't have ever associated with outside of that experience.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I didn't imply that they are the only people. Anyone who has ever served in the military (as I have) can tell you the type of folks you are going to be meeting. I would say 1/2 to 2/3 of the people I went through basic with were borderline criminals that I wouldn't have ever associated with outside of that experience.

I'd love to disagree with you, but I can't. I had exactly the same experience in basic. Some of those thugs also made great soldiers--tough as hell, loved to fight. There were also rampant drug problems, not during basic everywhere else. Never even heard of so many drugs and addicts before or since.

[Grobbin]

I am happy to say that as of tomorrow I am stepping down from my recruiting position to rejoin the line units and likely heading back to Afghanistan.

[Taxi]

I am happy to say that as of tomorrow I am stepping down from my recruiting position to rejoin the line units and likely heading back to Afghanistan.

Blow up some civilians for the free world! Make afghanistan safe for the oil pipelines and god speed. Maybe you could smuggle us some heroin from the warlords down south who run the show? Since you guys are all buddy buddy?

If you ever get a change of heart, theres always these guys you can look to for support:

http://www.ivaw.org/

[Gorgetrapper]

Taxi, you're just an uninformed communist. Get the fuck out.

[Hasbinbad]

Nice ad hominem, gorge. Classy!

[rioisk]

Nice ad hominem, gorge. Classy!

I make sure of freshman philosophy on P1999 forums. Do I get an A+ teacher?

[nicemace]

im joining the NZ Army as an officer (well starting out in officer training).

im a perfect citizen, no police record, wealthy background, half decent career.

i was joining to do an engineering degree through the army essentially. although i could do it through uni on my own but would have to pay for it myself...

you guys are making me second guess my decision heh.. advice? :O or is officer all g :D

[bufferofnewbies]

ITT: a bunch of civilians bitching about how bad the military is.

To the OP: Perhaps he could have turned his life around with some military time. Not everyone is cut out for it, but the military is a family. Given that today: its more of a disfunctional family than it was in my time. I commend your ideals, but I condemn your decision. Let those judge him who see how well he fits into the system after he has been shown what it is about.

[bullet]

Only morons join the army.

You a moron?

[2pair]

Only morons join the army.

You a moron?

Only trolls join the troll.


You a troll?

[bullet]

Only trolls join the troll.


You a troll?

Seems like we got our first moron.

Ding ding.

[Serith]

EverQuest is the source of all happiness.

[bullet]

EverQuest is the source of all happiness.

np lol

Np lol.*

Stupid n00b

[Loke]

Military Record: Marine Corps, 4 years active enlisted, 0321 primary MoS, (4 or 5 secondary MoSs), entire service in reconnaissance or infantry units, 2 combat deployments.

Academic Record: 1510 (or 1520, can't remember) SAT, 34 ACT, 97 ASVAB, 172 LSAT. ~3.5 GPA at a ARWUworld top 25 ranked University.

I really don't think I'm an exception to the rule - I just think you guys are wrong. Fuck off.

[Eyry]

His history made him ineligible to be a soldier in my eyes even though he was never caught for the things he did.

Sounds like classic government to me....guilty until proven innocent right? Or is it the other way around. You know Grobbin, its people like you that make this country fucked up.

I happen to have a friend who was dead set on being in the boarder patrol. He wanted to serve his country and what not. After going through months of vigorous training (He had a week left) he was falsely accused of trapping some girl in his room and not letting her leave. This girl had made a false accusation because she was drunk and she was mad that my friend did not want to have anything to do with her. Cops came to his door that night, arrested him, locked him away for 2 days before he was allowed to call someone. He was kicked out of the border patrol academy because of their "Zero Tolerance" clause.

Here is the kicker, the girl tried to repeal what she said to get him in trouble but the cops pushed it to court. The girl never showed in court but the state of New Mexico will NEVER remove anything from your record, even if you were acquitted of all charges, which he was.

Now he has a tarnished record for something he did not do because some bitch wanted to shoot her mouth off.

Guilty until proven innocent Grobbin....you are perfect for the government we have today...bunch of freaking crooks...

[melkortshea]

Here is some interesting information regarding the comments that suggest the military is mostly formed of the poor and lower ranks of society.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-27-soldier-edit_x.htm

According to a comprehensive study of all enlistees for the years 1998-99 and 2003 that The Heritage Foundation just released, the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is. Indeed, for every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods

If, for example, we consider the education of every recruit, 98% joined with high-school diplomas or better. By comparison, 75% of the general population meets that standard. Among all three-digit ZIP code areas in the USA in 2003 (one can study larger areas by isolating just the first three digits of ZIP codes), not one had a higher graduation rate among civilians than among its recruits.

In fact, since the 9/11 attacks, more volunteers have emerged from the middle and upper classes and fewer from the lowest-income groups. In 1999, both the highest fifth of the nation in income and the lowest fifth were slightly underrepresented among military volunteers. Since 2001, enlistments have increased in the top two-fifths of income levels but have decreased among the lowest fifth.

[Eyry]

The more you know... +2

[fastboy21]

Here is some interesting information regarding the comments that suggest the military is mostly formed of the poor and lower ranks of society.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-27-soldier-edit_x.htm

According to a comprehensive study of all enlistees for the years 1998-99 and 2003 that The Heritage Foundation just released, the typical recruit in the all-volunteer force is wealthier, more educated and more rural than the average 18- to 24-year-old citizen is. Indeed, for every two recruits coming from the poorest neighborhoods, there are three recruits coming from the richest neighborhoods

If, for example, we consider the education of every recruit, 98% joined with high-school diplomas or better. By comparison, 75% of the general population meets that standard. Among all three-digit ZIP code areas in the USA in 2003 (one can study larger areas by isolating just the first three digits of ZIP codes), not one had a higher graduation rate among civilians than among its recruits.

In fact, since the 9/11 attacks, more volunteers have emerged from the middle and upper classes and fewer from the lowest-income groups. In 1999, both the highest fifth of the nation in income and the lowest fifth were slightly underrepresented among military volunteers. Since 2001, enlistments have increased in the top two-fifths of income levels but have decreased among the lowest fifth.

You said it yourself, this data is anomalous of the norm due to 9/11...in times of war you are going to get a very different demographic then during peacetime in the military. that is obvious, and is reflected in the study you describe.

My comments don't reflect badly on the people that I served with. As someone else pointed out most of the "thugs" and "borderline criminals" actually made VERY good soldiers. In fact, even the kids I went through basic with who weren't educated (I already had a masters degree and was with some 18 year olds that could barely do math), for the most part, turned out to be quite intelligent. At least, in the sense of multiple intelligences not all being about formal education...and were again, in the end, very good soldiers.

Its a reality in most industrialized countries, including the US, that the military is not seen as a respectable career to enter unless you 1) an officer or 2) have no other options. I'm not necessarily happy with this, but I do believe there is some truth to it...how many parents encourage their kids to become enlisted men if they have the option to go to college or professional school?

In the end, I enlisted because I thought it was something I had to do if I really believe in the things I think about patriotism etc...but I don't think I am the rule by any means.

[Malinrol]

I have an opinion here, as it seems i do with everything...

My dad served in the military for years. Small arms Specialist, Demolitions Specialist, Jump Specialist, Medic. Needless to say, he was a very valuable asset to his team.

He told me stories of how back in his day in basic, the Drill Sergeant didn't just yell at you for fucking up. They would kick the shit outta you back then. It was all done to make you buck up, as there was no other option in military then.

Now, after hearing that, basic would seem to be a cake walk. I can handle getting yelled at.

Now, as to all the people saying that this guy is what makes the military a clusterfuck or whatever, then you are a dumbass. Our military is what stands in the way of all the people that want to blow us up. Lets face it, if you did one of their training excercises with those chalk bullets with some military, your getting get screwed.

I believe it was bullets or someone that said to Grobbin to go shoot up some afghanistan civvies for our freedom and to make it so we can make oil rigs and stuff over there. To whomever said that, then go screw yourself man. The military takes civilian casualities into consideration. They dont go around shooting innocent civilians in the streets. And if they do, then they have a good reason, god damnit...

The military has a job; To ensure the freedom and safety of the American civilian is upheld against all opposing forces. Or something like that.

Bottom line, if it weren't for the military, then we would have been dead long ago.

[PhelanKA]

He told me stories of how back in his day in basic, the Drill Sergeant didn't just yell at you for fucking up. They would kick the shit outta you back then. It was all done to make you buck up, as there was no other option in military then.



Your dad's either full of shit or his drill sergeant should've been reported to his superiors and drummed out of the service. Either way drill sergeants have never been permitted to strike a recruit in anger unless that recruit is a danger to himself or his unit (ie - being dangerously violent). Fact.

[Loke]

One of the main reasons I joined the military was to protect and defend my fellow Americans.

One of the main reasons I got out of the military was that I realized that most Americans are unappreciative and thus undeserving of the aforementioned protection. Seriously, I feel absolutely no kinship to 99% of the people in this nation and really couldn't care less about their well-being now.

[jilena]

I am with Loke on this one though honestly I would extend it to 99% of all people not just Americans. Any day I actually allow myself to notice the things people say and do I realize yet again why I don't watch TV and avoid knowing too much about what people these days are doing. The out of control sense of entitlement and general ignorance of people is disgusting. *shrug*

[Humerox]

Hell...back in my day it was "go to jail or join the army". Made for good infantry divisions.

Just sayin~

[Humerox]

Your dad's either full of shit or his drill sergeant should've been reported to his superiors and drummed out of the service. Either way drill sergeants have never been permitted to strike a recruit in anger unless that recruit is a danger to himself or his unit (ie - being dangerously violent). Fact.

Umm...ok. Even in the 70's drills could kick the shit out of ya, and ya best not say nothin' about it either.

Anyway... /salute to the young men and women in uniform.

[rioisk]

The military takes civilian casualities into consideration. They dont go around shooting innocent civilians in the streets. And if they do, then they have a good reason, god damnit...


All I know is of the several friends that have been in the military that Iraq is basically a FFA rape and murder zone for US soldiers. They got out ASAP.

[Loke]

All I know is of the several friends that have been in the military that Iraq is basically a FFA rape and murder zone for US soldiers. They got out ASAP.

Your friends are probably full of shit. I personally have spent a considerable amount of time in some of the worst parts of Iraq, and even then, it wasn't FFA. Sure, you can take some creative liberties with the RoI - but some people who have you believe that the entire country is like a modern day Mai Lai.

My experience has been that 99% of people who come home and tell war stories are full of shit and telling fairy tales - because most people that do have real war stories don't want to or feel the need to talk about it with friends/family/random people who weren't there and thus wouldn't understand it in a way that would make it worth talking about.

[Stickyfingers]

Your friends are probably full of shit. I personally have spent a considerable amount of time in some of the worst parts of Iraq, and even then, it wasn't FFA. Sure, you can take some creative liberties with the RoI - but some people who have you believe that the entire country is like a modern day Mai Lai.

My experience has been that 99% of people who come home and tell war stories are full of shit and telling fairy tales - because most people that do have real war stories don't want to or feel the need to talk about it with friends/family/random people who weren't there and thus wouldn't understand it in a way that would make it worth talking about.


Agreed. My neighbor was a Sniper in Fallujah during some of the really intense portions of the war, when Fallujah was a real hot bed. I asked him about it, and he didn't want to talk about it and just said it was crazy.

[MiRo2]

All I know is of the several friends that have been in the military that Iraq is basically a FFA rape and murder zone for US soldiers. They got out ASAP.

I did two tours in Iraq as a medic in Calvary and Infantry platoons, and can most certainly say, your "several friends" in the "military" are full of shit. Even the idea of this wasn't tolerated. In the 27 months I spent in Iraq, I only ever heard of one rape, and in that case, their entire command was relieved over it even though it was actions of 3 soldiers alone.

[fastboy21]

My father, who was a big part of the reason why I enlisted, went through Paris Island otw to Vietnam in 1969 for the Marines. He has always told me that Drill Sergeants were allowed to say anything (something they can't do today by regulation), use profanity, give personal insult, say things about religion, ethnicity, etc...but they couldn't lay a hand on you. Whoever says that they used to beat the crap out of someone as a rule is full of it.

Another thing, if you think "only being yelled at" makes the psych part very easy you dead wrong, and are speaking as someone who clearly has never been through military training. When you are completely tired, smell like shit even though you are allowed to shower twice a day, and have some guy acting like a fucking mad man waking you up to run five miles at 5 am, only to get called out and forced to do push ups until your elbows feel like they are about to break, in boots your feet don't fit right in, and chaffing on your thighs from too much sweat from your crotch, etc...then you can tell me its no big deal that some dude is yelling at you so loudly one inch from your face that you can smell the stench of whatever he had for dinner the night before...then you can tell me yelling doesn't matter and its cake.

[RKromwell]

I joined in 89, saw a few folks get their ass kicked. That being said, only one guy ever got touched during basic.

[MiRo2]

In the current army, the only time I've heard of or seen people getting their asses kicked was by their peers, never by a superior.