Fact: EQ was meant to be a PvP game

[Stinkum]

PvP was an afterthought of the developers at best.

The game wasn't made with PvP in mind.

The above statement is a popular opinion but is not true.

Have you ever dinged in EQ and go to get your new spells or train your combat skills.. Then you go look up your spells and think "Wtf? At least half of these aren't even worth buying" or "Why does my class even get this spell?"

A good number of them seem to have very limited application on a PvE server.

How many times is a Rogue going to bother with training Make Poison on a Blue server? How valuable is a spell like Shadow Step to an SK on a Blue server? Why do Shamans even get Blind? Enchanters mana drain or minor illusion?

These may not be the best examples in the world, but you get the point that on a PvP server, every last one of those spells has potential uses in various situations.

I'm not even mentioning all the obvious PvP items in the game like Pumice Stone.

Was EQ designed with PvP in mind? The answer is yes.

[Hugmukk]

Forethought or not, it's still pretty bad

[kenzar]

The above statement is a popular opinion but is not true.

Have you ever dinged in EQ and go to get your new spells or train your combat skills.. Then you go look up your spells and think "Wtf? At least half of these aren't even worth buying" or "Why does my class even get this spell?"

A good number of them seem to have very limited application on a PvE server.

How many times is a Rogue going to bother with training Make Poison on a Blue server? How valuable is a spell like Shadow Step to an SK on a Blue server? Why do Shamans even get Blind? Enchanters mana drain or minor illusion?

These may not be the best examples in the world, but you get the point that on a PvP server, every last one of those spells has potential uses in various situations.

I'm not even mentioning all the obvious PvP items in the game like Pumice Stone.

Was EQ designed with PvP in mind? The answer is yes.

So a spells utility (or lack thereof) in PvE automatically equates to a PvP utility? No. All your argument suggests is that not all spells are created equally in respect to utility. If you had an example of a spell that only targets other players you'd have a point.

[r0xx0r]

Design based on pvp more so than pve? Uh- no, not just no but hell no. Blind was a form of root: very valuable in pve, mana drain was amazing vs the healing type mobs: they can't heal with no mana. You'd be suprised how much a devastating proc from poison would help out on names etc..
The simple fact that spell/melee dmg was altered for pvp tells me that they didn't have pvp in mind more than pve. They actually were trying to appeal to more of a pve style since they saw the turmoil that was caused on previous MMO's that were pvp dominant- Ultima Online. I believe there was even a interview where the creators of EQ said pvp was kept in mind but the main purpose of the game was for quests/pve. But just like you this is my 2 cents. pvp is a joke on everquest- I'd think that for something to be designed with that aspect of the game as a main goal, it would of been created a lot better.

[Stinkum]

So a spells utility (or lack thereof) in PvE automatically equates to a PvP utility? No.

Don't be stupid.. Why even code the Rogue abilities like Make/Apply Poison in the game when they were making EQ if they were not designing the game with PvP in mind? Why put an item like Pumice Stone in the game?

The list goes on, you'll find why most casters only buy 50% of their spells on Blue servers, cause half of them have no application in PvE.

[Tecmos Deception]

Was EQ designed with PvP in mind?.

Duels. Arenas. Tome of Discord.

There's a difference between saying that some level of thought was put into PvP existing in EQ during the design process and saying that EQ was designed to be played as PvP servers.


Also, asking questions like "why even give rogues poison?" is like asking "why are there hybrid penalties?" or any number of other balance-related questions.

[Splorf22]

Also, asking questions like "why even give rogues poison?" is like asking "why are rangers so pathetic?"

The only thing worse than the PVE class balance in EQ is the PVP class balance.

[Stinkum]

The difference is that people here think that PvP wasn't given a good amount of consideration in the design process. Just an "afterthought at best" or "PvE with PvP turned on."

PvP was a huge part of it.

[Aaron]

Neither here nor there, but there are a lot of useless abilities in classic EQ.

Detect traps
Identify
etc

[kenzar]

Don't be stupid.. Why even code the Rogue abilities like Make/Apply Poison in the game when they were making EQ if they were not designing the game with PvP in mind? Why put an item like Pumice Stone in the game?

The list goes on, you'll find why most casters only buy 50% of their spells on Blue servers, cause half of them have no application in PvE.

Pumice stone - to allow melees to remove buffs of NPC target. Alleviates the the casters from responsibility of having to dmg and debuff. Quicker stripping of buffs and application of debuffs.

Make/Apply poison - To allow rogues to augment the debuffs given to shamans/enchanters. And to allow rogues to augment dots of Necros/Druids/Shamans.

Just because a spell has a lower utility than another doesn't inherently make it a PvP spell. Again, your argument does not point towards anything remotely close to your claim.

[TWDL_Prexus]

It wasn't meant to be min/maxed by twinks, and exploited to hell. A lot of the spells you listed very much had a use in classic everquest. Especially with how the UI and other mechanics such as book medding etc worked. PVP definitely influenced certain things though.

[Tecmos Deception]

PvP was a huge part of it.

Show me a quote of one of the EQ developers saying that and MAYBE I'd believe you. Showing me a bunch of abilities that have limited and/or questionable use on a PvE server isn't going to convince me (or anyone else).

[melkezidek]

Fact: Alot of classic EQ came from Devs that played D&D heavy and thats why balance is so bad. Alot of stuff is in just becuase it added to the environment. Also True North totally PVP Spell!

[r0xx0r]

I am not seeing how make/apply poison makes u think eq was meant to be pvp. How many undead players you met on the server thus far?

[Tecmos Deception]

How many undead players you met on the server thus far?

Hah! :D

[Stinkum]

To say that something like Pumice Stone is actually a PvE item for letting melees debuff in group PvE encounters is just.. LOL.

[kenzar]

The existence of charisma buffs proves that EQ is meant to be a merchant selling game.

The existence of True North proves that EQ is meant to be an exploration game.

http://a1.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/002/Purple/3c/6b/2b/mzl.mhaujull.480x480-75.jpg

[r0xx0r]

i'd think the name itself tells you it's a quest game (pve)

[kenzar]

The existence of other player characters proves that EQ is meant to be a PvP game.

The existence of a chat function proves that EQ is meant to be a chat room.

You have some flawless logic, Stinkum. Quit trolling in server chat.

[Stinkum]

Also True North totally PVP Spell!

The existence of True North proves

The only thing less clever than a straw man argument is plagiarizing the exact same one two posts above you.

LOL

[kenzar]

The only thing less clever than a straw man argument is plagiarizing the exact same one two posts above you.

LOL

Points out a straw man defense, while forming a straw man defense. How meta of you.

You have yet to provide a logical argument supporting your claim. Please go on.

[Stormhowl]

The only thing less clever than a straw man argument is plagiarizing the exact same one two posts above you.

LOL

Before throwing fallacies around, perhaps consider the one's you're using to support your argument.

[kenzar]

Before throwing fallacies around, perhaps consider the one's you're using to support your argument.

Stinkum is tipping his troll hand left and right. I find it hard to believe someone who can spot a straw man is completely ignorant of his own logical failures.

[Droog007]

Neither here nor there, but there are a lot of useless abilities in classic EQ.

Detect traps
Identify
etc

Detect traps will be pretty sweet in Dragon Necropolis... Identify was pretty crucial to solving quests before they were all spoiled (10 years ago).

[kenzar]

Identify was pretty crucial to solving quests before they were all spoiled (10 years ago).

Still pretty useful to those of us with poor organization skills when doing the VP key quest. Srsly developers? Lets put in multiple quest items, that are a huge time sink to obtain, all with the same name/icon. a piece of a medallion... o_0

[Sithel1988]

bro. all those unused spells were meant for role playing.

[Hugmukk]

Move to RnF please

[kenzar]

Move to RnF please

Should probably slap Stink with a forum suspension for even trying to pull this in server chat too. I'm pretty sure there is a precedence for it already.

[Faerie Blossom]

I watched that short documentary about EQ, and the devs said they were arguing over whether the game should be PvP or not. It's my opinion that EQ PvP was accidentally genius, and to this day it remains the best gaming experience of my life.

E-drama has never been so fun :)

[Stormhowl]

bro. all those unused spells were meant for role playing.

Minor Illusion is pretty fun for one of those "First person to find me gets X platinum" type things people used to do when MMOs were about the social experience rather than the min-max e-peen drama we get nowadays. :P

Plus it gets people to stop nagging you for clarity when you're just a little torch on the ground and trying to med.

[Sularus Oth Mithas]

EQ definitely had PvP in mind but no more than PvE. EQ was the one game that did PvP right whether you think it is good or not is beside the point. They developed the servers differently as I recall in the fact that changes they made to PvP areas did not effect the blue servers. More companies need to follow that example.

I may be remembering that wrong but Rallos is where I started back in the day, and I did that for a year before moving on to Brell blue server and that's what I remember.

[kenzar]

I watched that short documentary about EQ, and the devs said they were arguing over whether the game should be PvP or not. It's my opinion that EQ PvP was accidentally genius, and to this day it remains the best gaming experience of my life.

E-drama has never been so fun :)

Clearly you missed Ultima Online / Asheron's Call. If you think EQ PvP generated drama, imagine losing every item you have on you upon death lol.

[Faerie Blossom]

Minor Illusion is pretty fun for one of those "First person to find me gets X platinum" type things people used to do when MMOs were about the social experience rather than the min-max e-peen drama we get nowadays. :P

Plus it gets people to stop nagging you for clarity when you're just a little torch on the ground and trying to med.

I don't understand how no other MMO has been able to replicate the emphasis on social interaction that really made EQ great :/

And the social interaction was given much more depth with the PvP facet of the game.

[r0xx0r]

Clearly you missed Ultima Online / Asheron's Call. If you think EQ PvP generated drama, imagine losing every item you have on you upon death lol.

ppl can't fathom that, Yes they honestly missed UO if they think EQ got it right, haha! Maybe they'll give the comment like- it wasn't 3d, I'll then point them to darkfall online- 3d version of UO, with a bit of morrowind thrown in there (for the most part)

full loot up to and including house looting makes UO the master of all pvp games

[r0xx0r]

check out current UO emulator servers bro. uosecondage.com

[kenzar]

as I recall in the fact that changes they made to PvP areas did not effect the blue servers.

I think you are remembering wrong. Patches were not server specific, they were client specific. Regardless of the rule set of your server, we all used the same client.

[Stormhowl]

I don't understand how no other MMO has been able to replicate the emphasis on social interaction that really made EQ great :/

And the social interaction was given much more depth with the PvP facet of the game.

Two words: Power Creep. Most MMOs nowadays focus on big numbers and instant gratification. Look at a recent MMO (let's use WoW for example). Level 60, you were lucky to have found something with +16 to your two primary stats. By level 81, upon entering the new Pandaria areas, you've got gear dropping on your face with +500-600 to 2-3 stats.

And that's not counting all the other things WoW (and by extension, all WoW-clones) have done to the genre. Look at how much it simplified and streamlined a lot of processes are (NPC interactions are a few clicks; Professions are simplified point and click exercises that give you the recipe), not to mention how much focus is given to combat and "action" rather than on the RP experience. There's very few utility spells and abilities that just add flavour, and those that do fall under heavy criticism from players.

Who knows whether EverQuest Next will be an EQ clone or a WoW clone or its own experience entirely. I'd prefer the former entirely, honestly. :(

[Elmarnieh]

The designers stated that PVP was an afterthought.

Your opinion on the mechanics development is trumped by the people who developed the mechanics.

Thank you, come again.

[Sularus Oth Mithas]

I don't understand how no other MMO has been able to replicate the emphasis on social interaction that really made EQ great :/

And the social interaction was given much more depth with the PvP facet of the game.

I think it was given by the fact that there was no hand holding. There were no maps, if you wanted to find something you waited till some player made maps were put up on websites but you couldn't just open a game map and find it. You often asked someone for directions. If you wanted to go to another continent you took a 20 minute boat ride which offered lots of time to chat with strangers or you looked for a port, either way you're having to be social. No instances - I thought instances were a genius idea when I first saw them in WoW now I curse their existence. When you need to co-operate with others on the server to share camps and create lists for reps or make rotations for Dragons etc that all forces you to be social.

Now add PvP into that mix in the style game that EQ is and yes you have a great need to be social as well. Traveling in packs was a good idea but I also saw a lot of solo gankers back in the day.

[Faerie Blossom]

This poor attempt at a troll thread is generating some very worthwhile replies :)

[Sularus Oth Mithas]

This poor attempt at a troll thread is generating some very worthwhile replies :)

It's been a surprisingly good discussion that hasn't gone totally south yet.

[Stormhowl]

It's been a surprisingly good discussion that hasn't gone totally south yet.

Can you really go any further south than how it began? :3

[raitheon]

Well if he was looking for south; I hear red is good this time of year.

[myriverse]

MMORPG.com: Ultima Online launched within 2 years of EverQuest – did Origin’s release influence your design choices, and conversely did it give you any cues as not what to do?

Brad McQuaid: Absolutely. First, it gave us confidence that an MMORPG could be commercially viable. It also reinforced our belief that unrestricted PvP was a bad thing. We’d played PvP MUDs in the past and were not fans of them. The wanton PvP in UO confirmed for us that we wanted to make a primarily PvE game.

Heck, originally, EverQuest was to be nothing but an exploration game. Even tradeskills weren't much of a forethought.

[Stormhowl]

Heck, originally, EverQuest was to be nothing but an exploration game. Even tradeskills weren't much of a forethought.

I don't know why people get so bent out of shape about needing PvP in a game where random chance and a difference of gear rather than skill can make or break an encounter.

PvP belongs in games like shooters where everyone is on equal footing and skill is the deciding factor.

[Essedge]

Why do Shamans even get Blind?

snap aggro, my beastly ogre shaman can tank better then the clothies I've grouped with.

its also fun watching a mob lag out in circles

[Aviann]

How many times is a Rogue going to bother with training Make Poison on a Blue server?

Really? Why the hell wouldn't they?

[tehruoh]

Why do Shamans even get Blind?



blind is a very useful utility for the overgeared tanking shaman. When I played on blue, i was always tanking sebilis and other high end dungeons.... This spell helped me keep aggro on a mob while using minimal mana (except for the obvious:slow).

[SamwiseRed]

ye its a good way for paladins to hold agro without mana intensive stuns

[Aaron]

Clearly you are of the generation that had all of EQ handed to them by Allakhazam. You know, identify works great when you can't just google search your quest and find an entire walk through, you know when people actually worked for the stuff.

I played in 1999 long enough to level a ranger to 50 before Kunark came out. Was there a generation before me? I don't think there was.

[applesauce25r624]

Ultima Online

Ultima Online



<3 <3 <3

[Stinkum]

Bump because EQ is a PvP game

[SamwiseRed]

eq was meant to play played 14 years later.

[Galvatar]

OP Raises some valid points, but I mean EQ was like the first big game of it's kind, I don't think anyone really knew what it was going to be or where it was going to go, so they put a lot of stuff in there that really didn't get developed as intended esp. with them selling out to Sony.

[SamwiseRed]

pretty sure sony had their dirty hands all over eq well before release.

[Hobie819]

There are a lot of things that dont make sense to PVP in game as well. Invis vs animals, undead.. any animal pet line, Feign death, etc... none of those have any use for PvE.

I think the intent was for it to be a balanced game and most people found PVP servers to be pretty boring in all honesty... Made things a lot harder and in the search for mad lewt, the easier the better.

[shooteneq1]

if it was meant to be pvp, 90% of the servers wouldnt have been pve.

[Stormhowl]

Bump because my troll has run out of steam but I think it needs to keep going anyways

Fixed that for you.

EQ was not intended to be a PvP game. There is a quote a page or two back from Brad mother f*cking McQuaid stating it was not intended to be a PvP environment.

End of discussion.

[Rhambuk]

Intended or not, eq pvp sucks. its not balanced its not fun.

Were you just discussing the idea of eq being pvp or are you another red fool trying to recruit for their server? Because thats getting really F*cking old

I have a great idea, lets scrap red. get blues pop back up maybe 50 people and forget red was ever created...

[Vladesch]

You are crediting the original designers with too much skill.
More likely they just stuffed up the spell design for some spells.

I'm sure you could find plenty of useless spells that are useless for pvp too....

Sense animals
Invoke lightning
Firefist
Invisibility to animals (camoflague is 4 levels lower and invis vs a lot more)
cascade of hail
calm animal (where would you use this instead of harmony?)
Spirit of cheetah. (not completely useless, but very very close to it)
scale of wolf (we dont have it, but would you really bother with it anyway?)
greater wolf form. (who would bother, normal wolfform is just as good for what druids want)

etc.

[Trelaboon]

Actually, watch the 10 year documentary with Jace Hall. Brad McQuaid and Smedley all say they had zero intention of making the game PVP, based of of UO's horrible PVP methods.

[r0xx0r]

Actually, watch the 10 year documentary with Jace Hall. Brad McQuaid and Smedley all say they had zero intention of making the game PVP, based of of UO's horrible PVP methods.

I knew i saw that somewhere, as I mentioned before- in exact ref. to UO itself. :)

[Bohab]

Actually, watch the 10 year documentary with Jace Hall. Brad McQuaid and Smedley all say they had zero intention of making the game PVP, based of of UO's horrible PVP methods.

Was about to say this too...

[Alawen]

You are crediting the original designers with too much skill.
More likely they just stuffed up the spell design for some spells.

I'm sure you could find plenty of useless spells that are useless for pvp too....

Sense animals
Invoke lightning
Firefist
Invisibility to animals (camoflague is 4 levels lower and invis vs a lot more)
cascade of hail
calm animal (where would you use this instead of harmony?)
Spirit of cheetah. (not completely useless, but very very close to it)
scale of wolf (we dont have it, but would you really bother with it anyway?)
greater wolf form. (who would bother, normal wolfform is just as good for what druids want)

etc.

I use sense animals, firefist, calm animal, spirit of cheetah and greater wolf form often.

[Messianic]

I read the title of this post then lol'd.

[Nune]

I've never understood why people said EQ PvP is so bad. I've definitely never read an explanation and then said "ok, well this guys got a point"

My theory? Eq PvP is extremely hard, and out of balance. A video game that is hard, to most people, is not fun. Most people want adjustable difficulty, so that when they face that uber boss they won't be stuck once they've run out of ideas on how to defeat it and can't. I think EQ PvP is the said boss, with no slider. People never learned the tricks and techniques to winning in PvP (lol, see the video of that Rogue down Supreme in like 6 seconds because he just spun in circles thinking that would prevent from getting backstabbed?) so they just rerolled on blue and chased the dragon(s).

EQ PvP is awesome, you just have to find your personal silver lining. I play on Blue now due to the fact that the Red server is inhabited by a bunch of fucks, and I've learned to enjoy PvE EQ in a different light.


But I will always miss being able to go fucking own some idiot in a zone, instead of having to "ask" him to dig deep and summon some IQ.

[Grahm]

didnt read thread, but its true.

when someone casts memblur on me in pvp its an awkward couple of days while my family has to re-teach me everything

[Stinkum]

EQ was meant to be a high-stakes, chaotic game. High-stakes for the severe penalties from dying (long corpse runs, loss of significant XP). Chaotic because you can literally attack (and kill) any NPC in the game that you want to. Whether it's a banker, guild trainer, important quest NPC, or merchant. Everything is fair game.

It follows logically that you were also meant to attack any PC as well.

If you're not playing PvP, you're doing EQ wrong.

Brad McQuaid and Smedley all say they had zero intention of making the game PVP, based of of UO's horrible PVP methods.

That's why there's a Priest of Dischord at the default bind point in every city and every toon created (even on PvE servers) starts with a Book of Dischord? And there were extremely popular PvP servers at launch of EQ? Not to mention all the obvious PvP items and spells built into the design of the game?

Derp.

[Kagatob]

Bad thread rated 1 star.

All of your arguments are invalid because EQ was heavily influenced by D&D which is why so many useless spells/abilities exist.

[Harmonium]

http://i.imgur.com/gJ6RBL2.gif

[odiecat99]

thread fails.

[Vladesch]

I use sense animals, firefist, calm animal, spirit of cheetah and greater wolf form often.

I can't see any situation where any of these spells are useful, with the exception of spirit of cheetah under very specific circumstances (and only because of the stupid non stacking of sow and root). Perhaps you would like to let us know under what circumstances you find these spells of use to you because frankly I have my doubts.

[myriverse]

Yeah. There are no uses for attack bonus and speed.

[Aviann]

I can't see any situation where any of these spells are useful, with the exception of spirit of cheetah under very specific circumstances (and only because of the stupid non stacking of sow and root). Perhaps you would like to let us know under what circumstances you find these spells of use to you because frankly I have my doubts.

I'll do it for him.

Firefist = Attack bonus
Greater Wolf form = more movement speed and atk bonus than regular wolf form
Spirit of Cheetah = Really fucking fast travel time
Sense animal = tells you where the fuck the nearest animal is so you can charm it and use it against idiots
Invisibility to animals = so you can trick people into running into hostile animals while chasing you
Invoke Lightning = AOE DD

There now, I came up with a response for almost every spell you listed. You can have your doubts, but sometimes people do different shit than root nuke rinse repeat on everything and anything possible. Tis called strategy.

[Stormhowl]

That's why there's a Priest of Dischord at the default bind point in every city and every toon created (even on PvE servers) starts with a Book of Dischord?

1) Hasty Generalization Fallacy. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/hasty-generalization.html) Just because there's the option for PvP on a PvE server doesn't mean the game was designed as PvP.

And there were extremely popular PvP servers at launch of EQ?

2) Appeal to Popularity Fallacy. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-popularity.html) Just because PvP was popular doesn't mean it was designed as a PvP game.

Not to mention all the obvious PvP items and spells built into the design of the game?

3) Composition Fallacy. (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html) Just because a very, very small sample of abilities and spells have "PvP-only" functions (in your opinion), doesn't mean the whole of the game is PvP.

Derp.

Stop talking. Also, it's endlessly entertaining you ignored the interview where the designers specifically stated that EverQuest was not designed with PvP in mind because of how Ultima Online played out two years prior.

Can we just get this thread locked?

[Faerie Blossom]

EQ PvP was kind of a happy little accident :)

It doesn't matter if it was intended or not, it was certainly the best gaming experience I've ever had.

[Kimm Barely]

Look at all the rustled butthurt bloobs that can't accept the truth about EQ.

[Aviann]

Look at all the rustled butthurt bloobs that can't accept the truth about EQ.

Oh bloobs haha, jeeze.

[Bardalicious]

Not to sound flame-ish, but OP... u dumb.

Not only do you state pumice is a PvP-intended item, but you scoff at the valid example of use in PVE?

I mean really, how dense are you? It's not any wonder that someone so mind-set on PVP is so terrible at understanding PVE mechanics.

Sorry bud, but any melee that is out soloing caster types in PVE and not using a pumice is doing it wrong. A mob that would otherwise flee with SoW now flees at normal speed. A mob that has a DS that would normally make any fast-hitting melee kill themselves on it now has none. A mob that just got intimidated and is fleeing towards a group of social aggro NPC types just had the fear cancelled. A mob that got cleric buffed now has 30% less hp to burn through than if you hadn't stripped it. Etc etc etc.

Not to mention the applications it has when used on yourself i.e. snare/root/any fucking number of magic-based dots/debuffs.

I mean fuck. It's obvious you have no semblance of logical thought pattern. I don't know why anyone is bothering to refute your outrageous claims as it clearly won't help you. Food for thought: they wouldn't have released Kunark a year later to add 2x the PVE content if they had any intentions of advancing the PVP aspect of the game instead.

I enjoy my fair share of PVP, but jesus man.... it's bullshit like this that makes everyone else look so far down upon our little niche of gamers. The only FACT about EQ and PVP is that the original PVP server(s) were much better off when they were populated with both PVP AND PVE-style gamers.

[Stinkum]

Not to sound flame-ish, but OP... u dumb.

Not only do you state pumice is a PvP-intended item, but you scoff at the valid example of use in PVE?

I mean really, how dense are you? It's not any wonder that someone so mind-set on PVP is so terrible at understanding PVE mechanics.

Sorry bud, but any melee that is out soloing caster types in PVE and not using a pumice is doing it wrong. A mob that would otherwise flee with SoW now flees at normal speed. A mob that has a DS that would normally make any fast-hitting melee kill themselves on it now has none. A mob that just got intimidated and is fleeing towards a group of social aggro NPC types just had the fear cancelled. A mob that got cleric buffed now has 30% less hp to burn through than if you hadn't stripped it. Etc etc etc.

Not to mention the applications it has when used on yourself i.e. snare/root/any fucking number of magic-based dots/debuffs.

I mean fuck. It's obvious you have no semblance of logical thought pattern. I don't know why anyone is bothering to refute your outrageous claims as it clearly won't help you. Food for thought: they wouldn't have released Kunark a year later to add 2x the PVE content if they had any intentions of advancing the PVP aspect of the game instead.

I enjoy my fair share of PVP, but jesus man.... it's bullshit like this that makes everyone else look so far down upon our little niche of gamers. The only FACT about EQ and PVP is that the original PVP server(s) were much better off when they were populated with both PVP AND PVE-style gamers.

http://iruntheinternet.com/lulzdump/images/gifs/maximum-over-rustle-jimmies-shaking-13537619370.gif

[Bardalicious]

^^ I can't hang with the big dog forum goers by providing intellectual debate that supports my wild claims so instead I'll post rehash of u mad bro pic #203213 and hope someone likes me lululululul.







Why I so loney :(

[Faerie Blossom]

^^ I can't hang with the big dog forum goers by providing intellectual debate that supports my wild claims so instead I'll post rehash of u mad bro pic #203213 and hope someone likes me lululululul.







Why I so loney :(

Well this thread was made as a joke. It's okay if you want to express your opinions, but it looks kinda silly when you respond to something that is obviously unserious with anger :/

[Bardalicious]

Well this thread was made as a joke. It's okay if you want to express your opinions, but it looks kinda silly when you respond to something that is obviously unserious with anger :/

You severely underestimate just how stupid the OP is.

Ignorance is fairly easy to decipher from text. Anger, not so much.

[OforOppression]

hahaha

[Yun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2pngCH0F7s&t=07m13s

Proves idiot OP wrong - that EverQuest was build to be PvE

Grats moron