Why is TMO allowed to raid stall?

[47shadesofgay]

For well over a year now TMO has been stalling raid encounters so that they get FTE on mobs while allowing for the maximum amount of time for their raid force to log-on.

They've been caught and punished more than any other guild for kiting mobs (their kiters usually attempt to claim ignorance), they invented the DA-tank Trak while people log in strategy, and lately they have been starting DT cycles (they claim this is accidental too) in an attempt to delay other guilds engages on CT.

I think it is pretty obvious to most on-lookers that they are regularly being out mobilized and a lot of their competed kills outside of VP seem to involve such stall tactics. I ask, why are these things allowed to occur? Kiting is obviously against raid rules, although very difficult to prove and therefore enforce, but how is DA tanking mobs and beginning DT cycles that slow other players down not a punishable offense?

[Versus]

Step away from the computer my son.

[Hackscendence]

I'd say, rather than 'why is TMO allowed?', a better question would be 'how is a stall not a kite?'.

You kite in a situation when you are not ready, but you want FTE on a mob. It's illegal because you are simply buying time for a login force, rather than allowing a raid force that is ready to pull the target.

Stall tanking or FD hopping both accomplish the same ends through different means, but if it's the motivation behind the kite that makes it illegal in our eyes, and the motivation behind the stall is identical to that of the kite, how are they not the same thing?

If you want to kill the mob, engage the mob. If you don't have enough for the mob, don't engage the mob. Yall dumb?

[47shadesofgay]

I'd say, rather than 'why is TMO allowed?', a better question would be 'how is a stall not a kite?'.

You kite in a situation when you are not ready, but you want FTE on a mob. It's illegal because you are simply buying time for a login force, rather than allowing a raid force that is ready to pull the target.

Stall tanking or FD hopping both accomplish the same ends through different means, but if it's the motivation behind the kite that makes it illegal in our eyes, and the motivation behind the stall is identical to that of the kite, how are they not the same thing?

If you want to kill the mob, engage the mob. If you don't have enough for the mob, don't engage the mob. Yall dumb?

I agree with what you've said, and I don't see a difference between kiting and stalling, and thusly I don't see how DA tanking is not stalling.

I used TMO as an example because I've been seeing a lot of this behaviour from them lately and they have an established history of using such tactics, be it during Trak, kiting dragons, or more recently the DT cycle shenanigans at CT.

How do people keep getting away with having 1-2 people occupy a raid target for 30+ seconds while they get more people logged in and have that not be considered stalling? Inquiring minds..

[Versus]

ITT: FE whines about tactics that they also use.

Pot, meet kettle. The only difference is TMO doesn't whine about it publicly when you do it.

[kotton05]

ITT: FE whines about tactics that they also use.

Pot, meet kettle. The only difference is TMO doesn't whine about it publicly when you do it.

who is whining?? stfu

Pretty much this is how it went, I joined FE. when we killed trak itd just "hey trainer get tola"... then "go go go go" type of scenario.

Once we started to get trakanon, tmo would just log in on spawn and stall tank (for positioning they say)

Now when the whole fiasco dealing with the logs/fizzle came to the forums is when I beat zealot in his own game (option with fte since I died)....

Then alovia got tricked into somehow not following the current rules on a raid mob (fte) and giving loot to zealot who had second to engage.... which was overturned by sirken. FE plays TMO's games and no one crys. We expect all the tactics you've shown us by now.

The most current one Zeelot tried was kiting fear inside the firewall waiting for us to engage CT while they CR'd. Personal favorite was him killing himself with the zone agro on him moment before we engaged CT, therefor training the shit out of us since we had half the kite. Funny thing is all of TMO's engages on CT we just camped out no tricks.

[falkun]

The most current one Zeelot tried was kiting fear inside the firewall waiting for us to engage CT while they CR'd. Personal favorite was him killing himself with the zone agro on him moment before we engaged CT, therefor training the shit out of us since we had half the kite. Funny thing is all of TMO's engages on CT we just camped out no tricks.

Bracer of the hidden, sit+hymn/mana song. He should be in control of his own kite, its not hard to finagle it so he runs into his own kite, right Fauss? ;)

[Godefroi]

ITT: FE whines about tactics that they also use.

Pot, meet kettle. The only difference is TMO doesn't whine about it publicly when you do it.

47 Isn't FE.

Try again bitch

[Servellious]

Zeelot the pro had no idea firewall was close to ct and totally accidenatally ran his train at ct during our engage.

[Alarti0001]

Zeelot the pro had no idea firewall was close to ct and totally accidenatally ran his train at ct during our engage.

Xerxes say what?

[falkun]

Xerxes say what?

Go back to sleep. You've already missed this CT.

[47shadesofgay]

I'm not a member of either guild, and I think that neither guild should be allowed to use such tactics. It baffles me that this is allowed to occur, period.

As I noted, and Merkk expanded upon, it is TMO that most notably uses and invents new tactics to gain whatever edge it can.

Why can't people just log in and attempt mobs with an entire raid force when they are properly prepared, as opposed to doing something that can be seen as stalling (DA tanking/Dragon kiting/Starting CT death cycles) while tagging FTE.

Are pixels really so important?

[47shadesofgay]

Kiting within the firewall while another guild attempts CT? I mean come on.. why keep inventing this shit.. just sit down, hope the other guy wipes, and then it will be your turn. No need to kite an entire zone right next to their engage or tag a mob then DA..

Sit, wait, engage.

[Szeth1]

Wait is kiting within the firewall what caused the zone to desynch all the fucking time back in the day?

If so I am sorry for killing PoF so many times =(

[Hackscendence]

ITT: FE whines about tactics that they also use.

Pot, meet kettle. The only difference is TMO doesn't whine about it publicly when you do it.

The rules of engagement are what they are, and they need to be changed.

FE or TMO, who gives a shit. I play this game, I've been in a ton of guilds (including your, lals) and I think it's a rotten tactic that cheapens the game. If it was against the rules, my guild wouldn't use it either.

The point is not that TMO does it, the point is that there's no difference, in the intention or results, between training and DA stalling.

[Hackscendence]

er training? I meant kiting.

[OMGWTF420]

because, TMO sucks.. they tried to zerg/buy their way to the top, when that didn't work they slandered their opposition's credibility and blasted their RL photo's so bad in rnf that many of them left the server completely (sucks doesn't it meccezan??). the funny thing is, FE isn't even doing half the shit to TMO that TMO did to its competition and look at how quickly they are folding, the little pussy bitches are getting whats coming to them imo

[Twain]

We get FTE on every mob on Red =)

[falkun]

We get FTE on every mob on Red =)

Isn't red EXP = loot? FTE means jack when I can just turn around and burn your clerics, ignore the dragon.

[Twain]

It was a joke sir. We steal Azrael Ragefires. Thanks for the Arms Azrael!

[Metallikus]

setting off DT cycles combined with no attempt at the raid target is pure abuse of game mechanics to grief the other raid force. The action results in player suspension combined with the guild being raid suspended. The burden of proof didnt used to be as much before. Now days you pretty much have to have indisputable multiple logs combined with 5 camera angles on uninterupted fraps. Then you have to get a gm to view the petition, who then shows it to TMO officers in order for them to find a rebuttle or ake up a defense for whatever evidence you provided. Then after ignoring your leadership for weeks, the gm will respond with not enuff proof to warrant discipline or be like its too late to do anyhting. After that, a new gm comes along and says all previous petitions are null and void, deletes them, moves on like its all good. Basically if you are in TMO, you have gotten away with about 50 seperate instances in the last couple years where your guild should have been raid suspended at the very least.

[Lron]

Vote Lron to be the next Guide on P99.

[quido]

I seem to remember nobody ever doing anything about people setting off DTs, for as long as I've been here.

[47shadesofgay]

I seem to remember nobody ever doing anything about people setting off DTs, for as long as I've been here.

I agree, this is an outrage and something needs to be done!

[kotton05]

I seem to remember nobody ever doing anything about people setting off DTs, for as long as I've been here.

I don't see this as wrong. Setting off a cycle hurts both sides.

The new tactic is to have everyone camping then start it (something we learned from TMO)

[Metallikus]

it was done on red and punished severely by our current lead GM. Yet on blue it goes unpunished because Zeelot / toleez / ahius has the power to escape every legit petition against his sorry ass.

[quido]

thank god for time machines - not useful only for knowing when mobs will pop, but also can escape the fuzz with them

[Frieza_Prexus]

it was done on red and punished severely by our current lead GM. Yet on blue it goes unpunished because Zeelot / toleez / ahius has the power to escape every legit petition against his sorry ass.

Point of clarification: I suspect by your grouping that you mean to imply Zeelot was controlling Aiaus during the recent time in question regarding the (ab)use of an IP exemption. This is untrue. The owner of Aiaus has repeatedly claimed responsibility for controlling the character at that time, and there exists no admission or record whatsoever that Zeelot did, or ever has, played the Aiaus account. If such an implication has not been made, please disregard this point. If you did, in fact, mean to make such an implication, you may construct your future statements in light of this clarification.

[Yibz]

PS -

Time between death touches - 45 seconds
Time it takes to camp - 30 seconds

Even if it takes more than one mouth breather longer 15 seconds to type /camp, only one said mouth breather should die per cycle. The more you know ~!

[OMGWTF420]

because, TMO sucks.. they tried to zerg/buy their way to the top, when that didn't work they slandered their opposition's credibility and blasted their RL photo's so bad in rnf that many of them left the server completely (sucks doesn't it meccezan??). the funny thing is, FE isn't even doing half the shit to TMO that TMO did to its competition and look at how quickly they are folding, the little pussy bitches are getting whats coming to them imo

[BigLe2e]

Point of clarification: I suspect by your grouping that you mean to imply Zeelot was controlling Aiaus during the recent time in question regarding the (ab)use of an IP exemption. This is untrue. The owner of Aiaus has repeatedly claimed responsibility for controlling the character at that time, and there exists no admission or record whatsoever that Zeelot did, or ever has, played the Aiaus account. If such an implication has not been made, please disregard this point. If you did, in fact, mean to make such an implication, you may construct your future statements in light of this clarification.

Dude you are such a dildo, you coulda said all that in one sentence and not put everyone to sleep. /YAWN

[maverixdamighty]

Point of clarification: TMO still confirmed cheaters.

[Tanthallas]

Point of clarification: I suspect by your grouping that you mean to imply Zeelot was controlling Aiaus during the recent time in question regarding the (ab)use of an IP exemption. This is untrue. The owner of Aiaus has repeatedly claimed responsibility for controlling the character at that time, and there exists no admission or record whatsoever that Zeelot did, or ever has, played the Aiaus account. If such an implication has not been made, please disregard this point. If you did, in fact, mean to make such an implication, you may construct your future statements in light of this clarification.

.....

[raitheon]

i'd love to see an unbiased 3rd party chime in here (like a GM!) on the situation.

[Treats]

I don't see this as wrong. Setting off a cycle hurts both sides.

The new tactic is to have everyone camping then start it (something we learned from TMO)

This is not new.

Blame TMO for everything though, not surprised.

IB/TR was the first to do this.

[maverixdamighty]

This is not new.

Blame TMO for everything though, not surprised.

IB/TR was the first to do this.

that makes it ok though right? So now you don't invent the ways to grief you just resort to them. Got it.

[Hackscendence]

Yeah, christ.

FE is not IB. So, to summarize your point: It's ok for an abused child to grow up and abuse their child, because that's the circle of life.

[OMGWTF420]

Yeah, christ.

FE is not IB. So, to summarize your point: It's ok for an abused child to grow up and abuse their child, because that's the circle of life.

its ok for an abused to child to grow up and murder their parents... better analogy of the FE/TMO drama imo

[Treats]

You guys are such dipshits.

The post would have been fine without the:

(something we learned from TMO)

[Hackscendence]

its ok for an abused to child to grow up and Forcefully Enter their parents... better analogy of the FE/TMO drama imo

fixt

[kotton05]

its ok for an abused to child to grow up and murder their parents... better analogy of the FE/TMO drama imo

Rofl +1 tmo in your eyes must be an oppressive single mother