Devs that dont play their own game

[Taxi]

I got a little anecdote back from when i worked as a QA for a Montreal game company.

We are working on a FPS game, i test the single player part of it. We wrap it up and we are switched to the multiplayer component of the game. We start playing and at my surprise and fellow testers' for major lols, i can just sit down at the other team's spawnpoint and headshot any player that spawns.

I do this for about 15 minutes and walk over to the guys that were already testing the multiplayer part of it. I say "Hey, so was a bug entered in the DB for that shit?"

And the guy tells me "Yea, they basically told us to stfu about it, we werent devs and we should let the devs dev."

"But.... headshots lol?"

So i enter the bug (everything is called a bug at that place, even if its not technically one) and the devs reply is to flag my bug with "Will not fix".

So whatever. We finish the game, it goes gold. Launch day. A shitstorm hits the forum "WTF HEADSHOTS OMG CAMPING AT SPAWN POINT LALALALAA"

And all the QA guys are laughing their asses off like... toldja.

So we spent the next 5 days working on a patch to fix this loophole with a big grin on our faces and after that devs got a little less uptight about the unwashed masses input into a game they didnt play themselves.

[Bogart]

Cool story bro

[Phallax]

We had a maintenance guy at my old job that was the same way. Hed tell us how the machine was suppose to run, how it worked, and why something wasnt working...Even tho we knew exactly why and how of everything because...well we ran it every single day and he didnt.

So something wouldnt work right hed tell us it was 'fine' couple days later itd break and all hell would break loose and wed be down for a couple days waiting on a part...Preventative maintenance is always better than actual maintenance!

[Gandite]

It seems like it would be pretty hard to build/improve/maintain this server as well as play on the server. When you factor in that everyone is a volunteer and they all have jobs and lives it seems even more difficult.

Not to mention the constant bitchfest probably takes some fun out of it.

[ClamSmasher22]

Sometimes a job is just a job. Just because they create or design a video game doesn't mean they like playing that game, or any games. Maybe they just like being able to buy food, or pay the rent.

I imagine the same thing happens here with this server.

Sounds like you were working with some dicks. If your job is to find stuff like that, and they tell you to fuck off for doing your job, you should just punch them in the back of the head.

[nilbog]

Sometimes a job is just a job. Just because they create or design a video game doesn't mean they like playing that game, or any games. Maybe they just like being able to buy food, or pay the rent.

I imagine the same thing happens here with this server.

Considering we don't make ANY profit, that's not the case here. I started the project from a love of classic eq, and a desire to develop a video game. Each of the other devs are here for the same reason.

In an industrial development scenario, I imagine it would be different. Those people get paid to develop video games. I assume they can like it or not.

[ClamSmasher22]

As I don't know personally, except for what you just posted, I just made a broad statement about work.

If it was me helping with this server, it would be because it would be fun to program it or run it or whatever. Fun to create for other people, not for myself.

I know no one gets paid here, I wasn't referring to that. The night cleaning crew at a store can take pride in cleaning the shit of the store and having it look nice for everyone to shop in the morning, but that doesn't mean want to go home and clean the shit out of their house as well. Who knows? Maybe they do, I just know -I- wouldn't be like that.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Considering we don't make ANY profit, that's not the case here. I started the project from a love of classic eq, and a desire to develop a video game. Each of the other devs are here for the same reason.

In an industrial development scenario, I imagine it would be different. Those people get paid to develop video games. I assume they can like it or not.

I have a friend that works for a well-known Facebook game company (yes, that company). He's the lead designer for their newest game (yes, that game). This is an awesome gamer who was a pivotal force in designing Pro Tour-winning Magic the Gathering back in the day.

He hates his game. The entire game is about sucking people in and getting them to put $20 on their credit card. That's the entire design philosophy. He told me that he would never play his game and that I shouldn't waste my time, either. He doesn't even think it's worthy of being called a game.

I am increasingly beginning to think that projects like P99 are the future of true gaming--small crews making good games because they love games. I've been to E3 and it was amazing and I used to wish I worked at a gaming company. Not anymore.

[Ropethunder]

Just because a bug looks easy to fix doesn't mean it is. I had a bug that took two years (!) to fix. It could not be reproduce and only occurred for a very small handful of customers.

Give these guys a break. Some bugs really are hard to fix or require substantial modification that takes time.

[Taxi]

I am increasingly beginning to think that projects like P99 are the future of true gaming--small crews making good games because they love games. I've been to E3 and it was amazing and I used to wish I worked at a gaming company. Not anymore.

Yea some of the best fun i had was in neverwinternight persistent servers. I had so much potential. When game companies get too greedy that shit interferes with whats fun and people dont play their games. Like warhammer online, wtf hemorrhaging subs, why? We made it just like WoW BGs, but from lvl1?!?

I think thats my hope for the future of MMOs, small teams in Emu like these or a team that stick to their vision with financial backing that is fine with making a bunch of money instead of OMG IM SO RICH LOOK AT ALL THAT FUCKING MONEY :eek::eek::eek:

[Taxi]

*It had so much potential*

[Haynar]

I liked the server when I first found it, but I did not have the time to invest in playing.

I wanted to contribute, so I picked up the base EMU code, and start to learn how the server code works.

Now I help fix bugs.

I don't play on the server. I don't GM on the server. I even pay for a live account so I can do packet captures, parses, and the such to help out here.

Sometimes I want to play. But from the drama I have seen on the boards, not very darn often.

Haynar

[Taxi]

Yea im not blaming devs for not playing their game, coding must be a full-on job and you get to enjoy the efforts in a different way than the players do. But often its the players who can tell you whats wrong in a game, something that the severity will sometimes escape devs because they didnt put the kind of time effort inside of the game to grasp quickly why its a problem. its a different kind of experience, and although theres alot of shitty noise coming from the players in a forum, theres also valuable stuff that would be foolish to dismiss altogether.

There was this invisible barrier at my job that blowed, like devs got sushi, we got pizza lol... i mean thats ok but it was kind of a metaphore for how they viewed the service grunts. After that incident its like something clicked and some of them came to visit us and say things like "Allrite, demolish my game, pull no punches, what do you think?".

[Bogart]

I am increasingly beginning to think that projects like P99 are the future of true gaming--small crews making good games because they love games. I've been to E3 and it was amazing and I used to wish I worked at a gaming company. Not anymore.

I'm starting to think this way myself, although I have no good explanation for why none of these companies can make a decent mmo.

Here's some perrspective http://azaroth.org/2010/06/14/kevin-smith-figures-out-the-internet/

Azaroth is a dude that ran IPY, and old UO emulated server. I had a blast on that server. And I see how running one could be a pain in the ass.

[Qaedain]

I liked the server when I first found it, but I did not have the time to invest in playing.

I wanted to contribute, so I picked up the base EMU code, and start to learn how the server code works.

Now I help fix bugs.

I don't play on the server. I don't GM on the server. I even pay for a live account so I can do packet captures, parses, and the such to help out here.

Sometimes I want to play. But from the drama I have seen on the boards, not very darn often.

Haynar

As a person who spends much more time in the game than on the boards, I will say that the forums seem to put the negative aspects under the microscope. I have had so much fun in-game over the last 2-3 weeks. I've met people, made new friends, relived a lot of fantastic nostalgia and generally enjoyed the disposition of everyone I've met.

[Phallax]

I'm starting to think this way myself, although I have no good explanation for why none of these companies can make a decent mmo.

Here's some perrspective http://azaroth.org/2010/06/14/kevin-smith-figures-out-the-internet/

Azaroth is a dude that ran IPY, and old UO emulated server. I had a blast on that server. And I see how running one could be a pain in the ass.

Derick runs the current UOemu 2nd age based shard thats good alot of followers, I play there.

The thing you have to remember with an era based server is stick to the era, never fix things for the community the way they want it, because then theyll just keep asking for more. And thats why IPY failed, the community started hassling Az to much for stuff and it burnt him out.

[Cyrano]

As a person who spends much more time in the game than on the boards, I will say that the forums seem to put the negative aspects under the microscope. I have had so much fun in-game over the last 2-3 weeks. I've met people, made new friends, relived a lot of fantastic nostalgia and generally enjoyed the disposition of everyone I've met.

That's cause you lucked into the best GM event to date on P99 lol.

[bullet]

As a person who spends much more time in the game than on the boards, I will say that the forums seem to put the negative aspects under the microscope. I have had so much fun in-game over the last 2-3 weeks. I've met people, made new friends, relived a lot of fantastic nostalgia and generally enjoyed the disposition of everyone I've met.

And youre not lvl 50 yet, thats when the game start to suck balls.

Project 1999 will die out like every other game, it's already beginning when you look behind all the "w00t wez removez global chatz, LOOKZ ATZ POPULATION GOING UPZ"

Congrats, you only got more people boxing and more people quitting.

The GM's wanted to keep it classic so classic they shall get.

[Taxi]

And youre not lvl 50 yet, thats when the game start to suck balls.

Project 1999 will die out like every other game, it's already beginning when you look behind all the "w00t wez removez global chatz, LOOKZ ATZ POPULATION GOING UPZ"

Congrats, you only got more people boxing and more people quitting.

The GM's wanted to keep it classic so classic they shall get.

Actually i think part of the population increase is probably due to the influx of people from the FoH forums.

[Droop]

Level 50 or not I imagine that to some of the guys who have raided everything a dozen oftimes. Have all the gear they want, etc. it is boring. That small % will probably be bored till Kunark comes out then play a ton for a couple of months, and be bored waiting for Velious.

Just like it was on live..if you go through all the damn content so fast you WILL get bored. The game WILL suck. My overall experience (granted I am only 43) has been awesome. A lot of that, I believe, stems from the good group of people I am always with (my guild). That has much a part to do w/ a MMO as anything else.

[Aeolwind]

And youre not lvl 50 yet, thats when the game start to suck balls.

Project 1999 will die out like every other game, it's already beginning when you look behind all the "w00t wez removez global chatz, LOOKZ ATZ POPULATION GOING UPZ"

Congrats, you only got more people boxing and more people quitting.

The GM's wanted to keep it classic so classic they shall get.

And your thought process flaw here is that you think we actually care about "opinions" that deviate from the focus of the project.

[astarothel]

And youre not lvl 50 yet, thats when the game start to suck balls.

Project 1999 will die out like every other game, it's already beginning when you look behind all the "w00t wez removez global chatz, LOOKZ ATZ POPULATION GOING UPZ"

Congrats, you only got more people boxing and more people quitting.



Some days I find it's really a miracle that you haven't been banned yet.

[Aeolwind]

Some days I find it's really a miracle that you haven't been banned yet.

After looking up his IP history, I'm debating it lol.

[Abacabb]

After looking up his IP history, I'm debating it lol.

http://memegenerator.net/Insanity-Wolf/ImageMacro/1372952/Insanity-Wolf-Ban-Me-Do-it-motherfucker.jpg

[bullet]

After looking up his IP history, I'm debating it lol.

Nah my account is still around but I don't play anyway, maybe when kunark hits.

I'm a good boy in-game so dont worry. I help groups, give loot away and I don't camp overcrowded raid bosses.

[pickled_heretic]

empiresmod for half life 2 used to be one of my favorite FPS games of all time. OF ALL TIME. And then I became a developer for it. Now I can barely stand to look at it. The only thing that keeps me going is forum drama.

[Stickyfingers]

I'm starting to think this way myself, although I have no good explanation for why none of these companies can make a decent mmo.

Here's some perrspective http://azaroth.org/2010/06/14/kevin-smith-figures-out-the-internet/

Azaroth is a dude that ran IPY, and old UO emulated server. I had a blast on that server. And I see how running one could be a pain in the ass.



Hell ya! I used to play on IPY, they made it the way UO should be played haha. Huge population too like 1000+ on at a time....I can't imagine the time commitment to maintaining it.

[guineapig]

I treat forum drama like work.
I pay very little attention to it and as soon as I get home and log in to EQ it is forgotten.

I have great guildies and have fun in game. The stuff on the boards has zero effect on me.

[BlackBellamy]

I got a little anecdote back from when i worked as a QA for a Montreal game company.

We are working on a FPS game, i test the single player part of it. We wrap it up and we are switched to the multiplayer component of the game. We start playing and at my surprise and fellow testers' for major lols, i can just sit down at the other team's spawnpoint and headshot any player that spawns.

I do this for about 15 minutes and walk over to the guys that were already testing the multiplayer part of it. I say "Hey, so was a bug entered in the DB for that shit?"

And the guy tells me "Yea, they basically told us to stfu about it, we werent devs and we should let the devs dev."

"But.... headshots lol?"

So i enter the bug (everything is called a bug at that place, even if its not technically one) and the devs reply is to flag my bug with "Will not fix".

So whatever. We finish the game, it goes gold. Launch day. A shitstorm hits the forum "WTF HEADSHOTS OMG CAMPING AT SPAWN POINT LALALALAA"

And all the QA guys are laughing their asses off like... toldja.

So we spent the next 5 days working on a patch to fix this loophole with a big grin on our faces and after that devs got a little less uptight about the unwashed masses input into a game they didnt play themselves.

This sounds like a QA fail. You have a critical flaw in the system and no one escalated it? The devs said wontfix and you took that?

[Taxi]

This sounds like a QA fail. You have a critical flaw in the system and no one escalated it? The devs said wontfix and you took that?

You have to understand that when you sign a QA contract at the company i was working for, it explicitely states the job of the QA is to find bugs, not play amateur game dev. So its a grey Area, we pushed it as far as we could but ultimately the ball is in the devs court. Its not like i was going to lose my job over some overzealous dev who might have asked for our heads on a platter for "disrupting" the project.

[BlackBellamy]

You have to understand that when you sign a QA contract at the company i was working for, it explicitely states the job of the QA is to find bugs, not play amateur game dev. So its a grey Area, we pushed it as far as we could but ultimately the ball is in the devs court. Its not like i was going to lose my job over some overzealous dev who might have asked for our heads on a platter for "disrupting" the project.

This is true, every situation is different and I don't know the specifics behind this one. In my shop the devs don't have final say on anything - that's the PMs job. And we (QA) make sure to work very closely with the PM so if there is a conflict the PM supports us more often than not.

[ShadowWulf]

Every developer, Q&A and rep for EvE online plays the game.
Several of the dev's today were infact people I played with in 04-05 that were actually hired on as full time staff and given paid relocation to iceland/New York as part of their new jobs.

Dev's who play their game, are the best dev's. They know the mechanics inside and out, the issues and bugs and frustrations. Not everything goes smoothly (EvE players might remember a particular scandal a few years back...) but for the most part its great for the game, and continued linear increases of the game population show that.

[muninn186]

I remember that scandal very well as I was in ASCN at the time. BoB were a bunch of fucking cheaters when they all got together. RIP the first titan :(