HBB fighting the good fight / lets spoon

[vaylorie]

Hey Hasbeen, I’m going to be in San Francisco next week to speak at a conference, let’s spoon while I’m down there.

In the meantime, the fascist associated press is reporting again how the top 20% earners in the US pay 72% of all taxes. Meanwhile the bottom 20% get screwed by paying no taxes and only getting a few hundred bucks in free money from the government ATM.

When are the wealthy going to start paying their fair share? Stay strong brother, fight the good fight!


AP Link (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_TAXES_WHO_PAYS_WHAT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-03-03-09-01-14)

[OforOppression]

gay

[purist 5.2]

saw thread was made by vaylorie didnt read a word voted 1 star closing tab now

[Kagatob]

Skewed numbers are skewed. At least you've proved that you are a jobless basement dwelling homo leeching off of rich parents. Also quite likely that you've provided much of the income to many of the RMT people.

Die painfully please.

[Kevynne]

saw thread was made by vaylorie didnt read a word voted 1 star closing tab now

[Hitchens]

In the meantime, the fascist associated press is reporting again how the top 20% earners in the US pay 72% of all taxes. Meanwhile the bottom 20% get screwed by paying no taxes.

In vaylorieworld, income tax is the only tax anyone pays.

[Swish]

Just leaving this here:-

http://i.imgur.com/IyUbJ.gif

[vaylorie]

Haha... Angry poor people are angry.

[Hitchens]

I'm not angry that you repeat things which aren't true. That's on you, sir.

[Kagatob]

Vaylorie believes the earth is ~8000 years old and that the sun orbits it. Gravity is also an illusion yo.

[purist 5.2]

http://i.imgur.com/bngN58M.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-OlA2UnJMqJY/UOrYPW1eChI/AAAAAAABJsM/jtpZusjH0T4/s1600/obsession1.jpg

[Kagatob]

^ Lol

[Tasslehofp99]

Skewed numbers are skewed. At least you've proved that you are a jobless basement dwelling homo leeching off of rich parents. Also quite likely that you've provided much of the income to many of the RMT people.

Die painfully please.

[Hitchens]

Vaylorie believes the earth is ~8000 years old and that the sun orbits it. Gravity is also an illusion yo.

At first I lol'd then I felt sad because I know there are people who actually believe this.

[vaylorie]

So... wait, gravity IS real? I be so not understand.

[Kagatob]

The first step of mitigating that sadness is to realize that you are indeed not one of them.

[vaylorie]

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Wow, I can't believe that people that spend all of the money they make (or more), purchase things they can't afford, don't plan or systematically save anything, assume debt up to their eyeballs, and have negative perception of wealth / wealthy don't actually have any wealth.

It's almost unbelievable that the people that save money and invest in order to build and grow wealth are actually building and growing wealth.

It is also quite surprising that people want to have more money that don't have money. Good find!!!

Your unwritten assumption that poor people have no money because rich people have it all is flawed. Good try.

Class envy is a bitch and angry poor people are still angry.

[Kagatob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5mQpBnfVIQ

[Kagatob]

So... wait, gravity IS real? I be so not understand.

Correct. History also is real.

http://i.imgur.com/c6vnOvk.jpg
Learn it.

[vaylorie]

Correct. History also is real.

Learn it.

Yes, your correct. Social programs lift people out of poverty, that's why there are very few poor people now.

[vaylorie]

Yes, your correct. Social programs lift people out of poverty, that's why there are very few poor people now.

Also, before you cry about being exceedingly smart.

*you're

[Hitchens]

Thank you for bringing your resentments to the Internet's attention.

[vaylorie]

"And so, my fellow poor people: Ask not what you can do for your country – ask what your country can do for you."
- Hitchens 2013

[Kagatob]

"And so, my fellow poor people: Ask not what you can do for your country – ask what your country can do for you."
- Hitchens 2013

You're a worse twister than Alarti. Your lack of knowledge about basic social economics is sickening as well, I would normally get the feeling that you are trolling with this shit but I have the feeling that you are simply a spoilt child with nothing better to do.
Try earning your own living and then we'll talk.

[vaylorie]

Hah, you guys (and your impressive grasp on social economics) are great. Seriously, don't be mad at people with money just because you don't have any money. They are not the reason that you are a miserable failure and their success does not negate your ability to also be successful. Despair not, there is hope! Log off of a 10 year old and drama filled game, go out from the basement, shave your neckbeard and get a job. Stop spending all of your money on Doritos and acne medicine.

In the meantime, I'll try to earn my own living and report back how it goes.

[Hitchens]

The debate between philosophical camps is important, unfortunately no meaningful discussion can be had with someone who's premise is so ridiculously flawed that they don't know the difference between income tax and payroll tax.

[vaylorie]

The debate between philosophical camps is important, unfortunately no meaningful discussion can be had with someone who's premise is so ridiculously flawed that they don't know the difference between income tax and payroll tax.

Do you even read what you write? When did income vs. payroll tax come up at all? /facepalm

[picodefaggo]

i would literally stake my entire savings that vaylorie is somewhere at or below poverty line (if independent). would be easiest $23 i ever made

[vaylorie]

And btw the kind of money I'm talking about is rarely earned like you and me might, it's inherited over many generations.

Fact check? What kind of money are you referring to (net worth presumably)? Over 5M, 10M, 100M, 1B+? i know at least in the sub $10M range, a wide majority are first generation wealthy. Also, how many people do you think actually fit into the group you're talking about?

[Stinkum]

Hah, you guys (and your impressive grasp on social economics) are great. Seriously, don't be mad at people with money just because you don't have any money. They are not the reason that you are a miserable failure and their success does not negate your ability to also be successful. Despair not, there is hope! Log off of a 10 year old and drama filled game, go out from the basement, shave your neckbeard and get a job. Stop spending all of your money on Doritos and acne medicine.

In the meantime, I'll try to earn my own living and report back how it goes.

I assure you that not a single person here believes you are living some kind of good life like you try to pretend.

You sound extremely bitter and insecure.

[vaylorie]

I assure you that not a single person here believes you are living some kind of good life like you try to pretend.

You sound extremely bitter and insecure.

Hmm.. define 'good life'? I don't believe I am pretending that I am living some kind of 'good life'... :confused:

[Lexical]

There is nothing wrong with the top 1% of a capitalist society controlling 40% of the wealth just like there is nothing wrong with monarchies and feudal governments.

[Stinkum]

You are insanely insecure about your own and other people's finances. The mark of someone who is desperate trying to compensate for some kind of failure he's had in his life.

[Stinkum]

^ @vaylorie

[Lexical]

Stop attacking vaylorie guys! I mean who really cares that apple's annual profits can easily pay for the US's deficit?

[vaylorie]

All these questions and more were answered in the video I posted if you bothered to pay attention.
As far as your second question, the group is called the 1% because they own over 40 of the wealth, the rest of us are called the..................?
Wait for it..................
The 99%!

Let me ask this. Assuming the fact that the wealthy 1% has 40% of the nations overall wealth, do you feel that this precludes you from becoming wealthy or growing wealth? The difference between you and I is that I don't disparage them because of their wealth nor have I experienced an inability to succeed because of the fact that someone else is exceedingly wealthy.

You're video even calls out that the bottom 20% don't invest in the market which has also grown by 1300% in the past 30 years. The wealth of the 1% fluctuates tremendously and grows tremendously because they invest. There are certainly immoral and corrupt politicians and wealthy people and everyone is right to be angry with them, but the fact that someone is wealthy does not preclude me from succeeding.

[Lexical]

In all honesty, I would agree with vaylorie if our politicians/law makers/law enforcers/regulating committees/etc. could not be so easily bought out.

[vaylorie]

Stop attacking vaylorie guys! I mean who really cares that apple's annual profits can easily pay for the US's deficit?

Good call. I don't know what planet you live on but 2012 Revenue for apple was around $150B (net income closer to $40B) and our federal deficit last year was around $1.1T. Yes, technically you could probably take all income from the fortune 500 companies and probably pay about 1/2 or perhaps 3/4 of the US annual deficit. This is a great idea, be sure to write your congressman!

[vaylorie]

Good call. I don't know what planet you live on but 2012 Revenue for apple was around $150B (net income closer to $40B) and our federal deficit last year was around $1.1T. Yes, technically you could probably take all income from the fortune 500 companies and probably pay about 1/2 or perhaps 3/4 of the US annual deficit. This is a great idea, be sure to write your congressman!

Your idea would also likely solve the wealth gap since the top 500 companies would also be worthless at that point and all the 1%'ers stocks would drop in value making everyone equally poor! I think you are on to something here...

[Lexical]

Good call. I don't know what planet you live on but 2012 Revenue for apple was around $150B (net income closer to $40B) and our federal deficit last year was around $1.1T. Yes, technically you could probably take all income from the fortune 500 companies and probably pay about 1/2 or perhaps 3/4 of the US annual deficit. This is a great idea, be sure to write your congressman!

hahaha, yeah, I was speaking in hyperbole, but the sad truth is this:
Take the top 500 companies that report a positive annual profit and tax it 30% and the deficit is about half gone. Don't believe me? Do the math. http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2012/full_list/

A lot of these fortune 500 companies don't pay close to the 30% (most pay about 1%) they are supposed to because of the fucked corporate tax code which they lobbied for. (more sauce: http://www.ctj.org/pdf/notax2012.pdf) What is even more fucked is that this is only 500 corporations. A large portion of our spending problem would be solved if we stopped spending on these too big to fail companies, stopped giving them tax breaks and closed the tax loop holes.

[Lexical]

and before you do, please don't rope me in with the damn occupiers.

[vaylorie]

Ok good I can see that your starting to learn and think. Now go back and watch Katabob's video again and report back with what some pitfalls of gross inequality are.

Way to avoid the question. Also, if your basis for the way the economy works is the ridiculous video that Katabob posted, then I pity you. I specifically did like the part that says "the people invested in their future together... they called it, paying taxes". Nice, hah. I don't know about you but I don't view my tax bill as an investment for my future. Do you really look back with fondness on the days that everyone was happy that they got to pay taxes as in the start of the video. I must not remember those times.

Again, your logic (and the premise of the video) is that rich people evil/immoral by nature of their wealth. I disagree. Some of them are but it is not because of their wealth, it is because they are evil/immoral.

[Kagatob]

and before you do, please don't rope me in with the damn occupiers.

Me either, I'm not an anarchist.

[Kagatob]

Way to avoid the question. Also, if your basis for the way the economy works is the ridiculous video that Katabob posted, then I pity you. I specifically did like the part that says "the people invested in their future together... they called it, paying taxes". Nice, hah. I don't know about you but I don't view my tax bill as an investment for my future.
Something tells me that you don't pay taxes at all, but assuming you do, then something else tells me that you don't understand what pays to maintain the entire infrastructure of the nation. Even if you don't like schools and public transportation because you are so wealthy you don't need them, you do like roads, running water and electricity don't you? And before you argue that you have water/electric bills, you are billed for the service, the city, which is funded by *gasp* taxes, pays to maintain the delivery system that gives you the service.

Do you really look back with fondness on the days that everyone was happy that they got to pay taxes as in the start of the video. I must not remember those times.
You must be young, "back in the day" everyone paid their "fair share" which they don't now. Again, you show your gross ignorance of social economics.

Again, your logic (and the premise of the video) is that rich people evil/immoral by nature of their wealth. I disagree. Some of them are but it is not because of their wealth, it is because they are evil/immoral.
Money = power and power corrupts.

[vaylorie]

Something tells me that you don't pay taxes at all, but assuming you do, then something else tells me that you don't understand what pays to maintain the entire infrastructure of the nation. Even if you don't like schools and public transportation because you are so wealthy you don't need them, you do like roads, running water and electricity don't you? And before you argue that you have water/electric bills, you are billed for the service, the city, which is funded by *gasp* taxes, pays to maintain the delivery system that gives you the service.

Get real. I paid $7K in property taxes last year that funds the bulk of this. Go here and let me know your findings: http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt. Don't blame me if I don't get excited about spending $8,500 on Medicaid related costs and insurance in addition to my health insurance premiums or $2,000 towards paying interest on the national debt or another $4,000 on social welfare programs or another almost $8,000 for a social security system that will likely not be there when I retire due to mismanagement. If this excites you then you are in luck because there is a lot to get excited about. These things are not a cheerful 'investment in my future'.


Money = power and power corrupts.
This is sound logic on why rich people are evil. I applaud your intellectual approach to this.

[Kagatob]

Get real. I paid $7K in property taxes last year that funds the bulk of this. Go here and let me know your findings: http://www.whitehouse.gov/2011-taxreceipt. Don't blame me if I don't get excited about spending $8,500 on Medicaid related costs and insurance in addition to my health insurance premiums or $2,000 towards paying interest on the national debt or another $4,000 on social welfare programs or another almost $8,000 for a social security system that will likely not be there when I retire due to mismanagement. If this excites you then you are in luck because there is a lot to get excited about. These things are not a cheerful 'investment in my future'.
I'm not an accountant, nor do I plan on being such, I'm not going to pick through numbers that may or may not be yours that amount to nothing more than a 'claim'.

If you expect sympathy you're looking in the wrong place anyway. I don't own a home, split rent with family members, don't smoke ($), drive a fuel economical used car and work full time at a job that pays well above minimum (nearly double) yet I still rank below the poverty line, am forced to live paycheck to paycheck and somehow owed in taxes even after claming so they would take out more each paycheck.

Where are my tax loopholes?

This is sound logic on why most rich people are evil. I applaud your intellectual approach to this.

FTFY, Ever hear of Bill Gates? Greatest and most generous man to exist since Kennedy, though you probably hate both of them for some crackpot reason too.

[vaylorie]

Tired, but to start with, I have a problem with decent hard working folks loosing their 401K's while the Govt. bails out the banks.
DJI closed at a record high today. I don't know about you but my 401K has actually grown in value since 2008. The value did drop for a time, but this is the risk of investing.


I have a problem with the big companies taking taxes out of their employees paychecks but not giving it to the state and fed.
I have literally never heard of any large company withholding taxes and not paying them. If they do, it would be reported and the company would get tremendous fines. You are essentially either making this up or you don't mean 'big companies' as you indicated. Perhaps a mom and pop store that doesn't know how to operate has done this.

I dont like supreme court judges that used to be vp's of companies like Monsanto sitting over cases that they own stock in.
I have no idea what you are referring to here but I also wouldn't like this.

I dont like the ceo's and companies having record breaking profits while cutting jobs, bennies and raising prices and screwing us over. Just to name a few
Have you thought that companies aren't reinvesting profits because they have no idea what the economic climate will be and/or the impact of constantly changing policies, like obamacare, that are potentially detrimental to business and that politicians pass without actually knowing the impact? They are indeed businesses and are responsible to the people that own the company (stockholders, including the aforementioned 401K investors) to generate a profit and grow the company.

[Kagatob]

DJI closed at a record high today. I don't know about you but my 401K has actually grown in value since 2008. The value did drop for a time, but this is the risk of investing.

Have you thought that companies aren't reinvesting profits because they have no idea what the economic climate will be and/or the impact of constantly changing policies, like obamacare, that are potentially detrimental to business and that politicians pass without actually knowing the impact? They are indeed businesses and are responsible to the people that own the company (stockholders, including the aforementioned 401K investors) to generate a profit and grow the company.

Huh...

[vaylorie]

If you expect sympathy you're looking in the wrong place anyway. I don't own a home, split rent with family members, don't smoke ($), drive a fuel economical used car and work full time at a job that pays well above minimum (nearly double) yet I still rank below the poverty line, am forced to live paycheck to paycheck and somehow owed in taxes even after claming so they would take out more each paycheck.

Where are my tax loopholes?

The point is not sympathy it's to debunk the crap you are spewing about how taxes are good because I enjoy driving my car on roads.

I also think the definition of poverty needs some context here. So you have a home you share with family (unless you mean you live with your parents), you have a car, you apparently have a computer and internet access, you have enough money to pay your bills each month and maybe not too much more, presumably a TV and other niceties as well like air conditioning, cable TV or satellite, etc. This is not some kind of scorched-earth, third world country, going to bed hungry type of scenario that you are on and the related imagery that is conjured up when we say 'poverty'.

Minimum wage is not a good baseline and double minimum is not a good bar. What do you expect, the government to give you money because it's 'unfair' that someone else has more money than you?

[Kagatob]

I also think the definition of poverty needs some context here. So you have a home you share with family (unless you mean you live with your parents), you have a car, you apparently have a computer and internet access, you have enough money to pay your bills each month and maybe not too much more, presumably a TV and other niceties as well like air conditioning, cable TV or satellite, etc. This is not some kind of scorched-earth, third world country, going to bed hungry type of scenario that you are on and the related imagery that is conjured up when we say 'poverty'.
The "home" I share with my family is a cheap apartment I pay half of the rent on.
The rest in bold (Aside from my 15 year old 25" tube TV) are things I don't have because they are things I removed from my lifestyle when I had to change my budget to afford said car.

Minimum wage is not a good baseline and double minimum is not a good bar. What do you expect, the government to give you money because it's 'unfair' that someone else has more money than you?
$8.50/hr is the minimum, I make just over $17/hr, and that is still not enough to elevate me to the fabled "middle class" that everyone covets so much.
My point isn't that I want a free pass anywhere, my point is that you need to shut the fuck up about things you obviously don't understand instead of crying 'class warfare' every chance you get.

[Hitchens]

Stupid GMO food companies, developing food that can grow in arid regions and resist pests. You know who else wanted to feed people?

Hitler.

[Mortiiss]

I used to think how you all do, mired down in details.

My thinking has evolved somewhat. Now I am much more in favor of the torch and pitchfork approach.

Fuck the details, just kill them all.

[vaylorie]

Bullshit, companies will take and keep all they can. You really think a company that has record breaking profits with the minimum amount of employees, most on contract with no benefits, is suddenly going to create more jobs and decide to run less efficient?

This is just foolish, especially your unfounded accusation that 'most' people that work for companies are on contract and don't have benefits. The rest of your rant makes complete sense, if you have no concept for how the world actually works. Companies don't hire people just to create jobs, they hire people to scale and expand the business. To help you catch up, if I hire more sales people, I can sell more. If I hire more factory workers, I can produce more. Hopefully you get the point.

Yes, they are responsible to keep all they can and operate efficiently but that is not the same thing as not hiring more people. When a company is unsure how an economy or economic policies are going to impact their business they will automatically become more conservative financially. Let me break this one down for you also. It I bring in $1M in profit this year and I want to grow my business, I can reinvest some of that money into the business by way of infrastructure, facilities, people, etc. If the government passes legislation that is going to take my profit from $1M to $250K I am not going to reinvest much, if any, since I still need to make a profit to be a viable company. Now if I don't have any form of realistic picture of what government policies are going to be coming down the road in the short term that may impact me, I am not going to reinvest any additional money until there is a sense of stability.

Also, just so you understand, YES, a company does make a profit and they should. Any company that doesn't turn a profit is either 1) a Non-Profit organization or 2) going out of business. It is not the primary purpose of a business to create jobs, but a successful and unimpeded business will create jobs as well as profit as it is a mutually beneficial situation.

You can say it is BS but I have met with 20+ small business owners that have said the EXACT same thing. They are holding onto cash right now because they don't know how Obamacare and other legislation is going to impact them. This is the reality even if it doesn't fit your perception.

All I know is there is a lot of fucking BS going on here. It's naive to think everything is Honky Dorey and sum it up as "poor people are mad and I'm going to be rich". The 1% are getting richer and richer and paying less and less, everyone else is struggling to survive and get a piece of the American dream and getting less and less in return for their efforts.

You have no logical reasoning for correlation or causation. Yes, the poor are staying poor. Yes, the rich are getting richer. You submit that the poor are poor BECAUSE the rich are getting richer which is ridiculous. The economy is not a static number of dollars that are just slowly moving away from the poor and towards the wealthy. Apart from your unfounded bullshit you have shown nothing that says the rich guy getting richer negates the ability for the poor man to increase his station.

It's very easy to be envious and make a demon out of a rich person because they have money and you want money. To further that cause, you make outlandish statements and try to conjurer up the idea that all wealth is evil (unless you would have it). You hear some moron twist data and then repeat it like it is fact while having no actual notion for how shit really works. If you basis is youtube video's, you are already screwed.

[purist 5.2]

didn't read cuz you're a Tool.
sux it

Dredge, is this your 42nd forum account or 43rd?

[vaylorie]

Drop for a time? Your showing your youth here, people lost their retirements, coupled with loosing all the equity in their homes from the hosing crash equals a large segment of our population getting completely fucked, meanwhile you got the big business ethics supported by wall street where numbers is all that matters. Read a book about what happened at Enron. The stock market is up mostly because the 1%er's felt like playing with their money.

Yes, drop for a time. I'm showing my youth? Some people may have lost some of their retirement but really the market fully recovered in a 5 year span. This IS flux in the market. It was a tremendous flux at the time but if you left your money in the market, you have the same amount today (roughly) than you had in 2007. Not a lot of growth clearly but you didn't 'lose your retirement'. If you took your money out when the market crashed then you are a moron and shouldn't have invested to begin with.

Again, 'the stock market is mostly up because the 1%ers felt like playing with thier money'. Again, a fun statement but unfounded and no real data to support this other than if furthers your perceptions. Yes, the crash showed major problems in the financial sector, the housing market is not yet recovered, the jobs market is not yet recovered, but know what you are talking about before painting a picture of a poor old lady that was forced to work at walmart because her retirement was annihilated. It may have altered her plans, but if she was 5 years out from retirement she was likely shielded by much of the losses due to being diversified into less-volatile securities and assets.


Across the United States more than 2,700 companies are collecting state income taxes from hundreds of thousands of workers - and are keeping the money with the states' approval, General Electric, Goldman Sachs, Procter & Gamble, Chrysler, Ford, General Motors and AMC Theatres enjoy deals to keep state taxes deducted from their workers' paychecks. Foreign companies also enjoy such arrangements, including Electrolux, Nissan, Toyota and a host of Canadian, Japanese and European banks.

Idiot, this is not companies keeping your money that should go to the state as your originally said. Do you blame the company that they received tax advantages from the state for building somewhere or doing business somewhere? Do you think the state or municipality offered the tax advantage because the business being there offers tremendous benefit to the state or municipality by bringing tons of workers, income & sales tax, and local spending to the region? How can you not think past step 1 here? Try to understand the reason things are done and don't be so gullible from your stupid friends.

[Hitchens]

Monsanto farming is just this generations cold fusion.

That doesn't make any sense because Monsanto's products actually work.

Of course if you want to believe there's some sinister conspiracy hiding the wonders of cold fusion from humanity.... well, that's your deal.

[vaylorie]

Stock market growth from 1980 to 2007 is 1400%. Which is also a bit under 400% after inflation. Strange how the people who's income is heavily from the stock market have grown at a similar rate to an overall stock index fund in the timeline you mentioned while the people that are not categorical investors have grown at a more modest rate.

If there is one thing your chart proves, it is that wealthy people are evil.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/581846_500143313375300_127646278_n.jpg

[yaaaflow]

Eat the rich.