Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All Regen is FT if you canni.

Indeed. But when you have Torpor (+300 Regen), +8 Regen is only a 2.66% improvement in your Cannibalization efforts. Less if you are using Regrowth and Fungi Tunic.

This is why FSI wins once you have Torpor. Increasing your survivability during the first minute of a fight (before a mob is slowed) will be better than a small boost to your Mana/HP regeneration on a class that can already fully recover in 3 minutes or less. Troll/Iksar HP regeneration is giving you +80 HP in that first minute, which isn't even 1 hit from a difficult mob. Slowing a mob earlier due to FSI preventing an interrupt will save a lot more than 80 HP.

It's the same reason why Vindi BP is generally better than Fungi Tunic on a Torpor Shaman. You want to reduce spikes in damage, those are what kill a Torpor Shaman. Vindi BP gives you more AC, HP, and Resists to do just that. Once a mob is slowed you can already control your HP/Mana very well with Torpor and Cannibalize.

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Play the race/class you want to and spend less time justifying it to nerds. This is an EQ sim not a high school one.

Agreed. Nobody is forcing anybody to play a race/class they do not like. Nobody is making fun of people who play X Race or X Class. All I am doing is providing the correct information on the game, so people can make their own decisions. There is nothing wrong with playing a non-Ogre Shaman, you can do all of the same content. Some people like to know what the Min/Max options are though, and there is no reason why we should obfuscate this information. If people like playing Min/Max, there is nothing wrong with that either.

Take these two statements: "FSI is provably better than Troll/Iksar Regen when a Shaman has Torpor", and "ToV Weapons are provably better than Rusty Weapons". I am not sure why the former gets so much pushback, and the latter does not. Both are proven via math and data, and are quite easy to prove.

[Snaggles]

Do you have regrowth on? If not, and no fungi, and not a troll, that’s approx 1.5 the effect of C2.

Do you have at least soft capped Wisdom? (Not you, but figuratively others). If not, bring say 60 wisdom under cap is about three casts of Turgurs or Torp.

There are a lot of trope statements about shaman gearing and most should have an asterisk. Fact is most players spend more time buffing, debuffing, and healing. Iksars have the most starting Wis. They don’t need bear or shrink to navigate a lot of places. It’s a helluva hill solo without an epic or JBB but they also don’t die from getting stuck in stairs, ladders, or doorways. That is is a frequent memory of leveling my troll shaman. More so than the bash-spell interrupts that resulted in a death.

If I could wave a wand and change my sham into another race it would prob be an iksar. Those wands don’t exist tho.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have regrowth on? If not, and no fungi, and not a troll, that’s approx 1.5 the effect of C2.

Do you have at least soft capped Wisdom? (Not you, but figuratively others). If not, bring say 60 wisdom under cap is about three casts of Turgurs or Torp.

There are a lot of trope statements about shaman gearing and most should have an asterisk. Fact is most players spend more time buffing, debuffing, and healing. Iksars have the most starting Wis. They don’t need bear or shrink to navigate a lot of places. It’s a helluva hill solo without an epic or JBB but they also don’t die from getting stuck in stairs, ladders, or doorways. That is is a frequent memory of leveling my troll shaman. More so than the bash-spell interrupts that resulted in a death.

If I could wave a wand and change my sham into another race it would prob be an iksar. Those wands don’t exist tho.

Troll/Iksar Regeneration gives you 4800 HP per hour over Barbarians/Ogres at level 60, assuming you are never at 100% HP. That's all it is doing.

4800 HP per hour is the equivalent of 3-4 Torpors per hour, depending on if your Torpor ticks 4 times or 5. This is 540-720 Mana per hour with Alteration Specialization.

If you want to compare Troll/Iksar Regeneration to a mana buff, it is basically the equivalent of Flowing Thought I on a Torpor Shaman. Realistically it is less than that, because a Torpor Shaman played efficiently is going to be at 100% HP and Mana when they are out of combat. I assume you want to play your character efficiently if you are worried about which racial is best.

All HP/Mana Regeneration is helpful. Nobody is denying that. FSI is simply more helpful, because surviving the pre-slow phase of a hard fight is more beneficial than saving 1.5-2 minutes (realistically less) on recovery per hour. Unfortunately Troll/Iksar Regeneration is too slow to typically be useful in terms of surviving a tough fight at level 60. Troll/Iksar HP Regeneration gives you a non-zero percent increase in survivability, but so does FSI, and FSI's non-zero percent increase in survivability is higher. That's why FSI is better on Shamans with Torpor. It's really that simple.

When it comes to size issues, Shamans can make Shrink Pots, which work both indoors and outdoors. They can also cast Shrink indoors. Iksars have a small benefit on a few raid targets by being naturally smaller, but normally size issues are easy to fix on a Shaman if they are a problem for you. Zone knowledge also helps. The longer you play a big race, typically the better you get at knowing where the problem areas are.

[Toxigen]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Troll/Iksar Regeneration gives you 4800 HP per hour over Barbarians/Ogres at level 60, assuming you are never at 100% HP. That's all it is doing.

4800 HP per hour is the equivalent of 3-4 Torpors per hour, depending on if your Torpor ticks 4 times or 5. This is 540-720 Mana per hour with Alteration Specialization.

If you want to compare Troll/Iksar Regeneration to a mana buff, it is basically the equivalent of Flowing Thought I on a Torpor Shaman. Realistically it is less than that, because a Torpor Shaman played efficiently is going to be at 100% HP and Mana when they are out of combat. I assume you want to play your character efficiently if you are worried about which racial is best.

All HP/Mana Regeneration is helpful. Nobody is denying that. FSI is simply more helpful, because surviving the pre-slow phase of a hard fight is more beneficial than saving 1.5-2 minutes (realistically less) on recovery per hour. Unfortunately Troll/Iksar Regeneration is too slow to typically be useful in terms of surviving a tough fight. It gives you a non-zero percent increase in survivability, but so does FSI, and that non-zero percent is higher. That's why FSI is better on Shamans with Torpor. It's really that simple.

fact is most players will benefit from regen...not everyone is a torpor solo artist

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

fact is most players will benefit from regen...not everyone is a torpor solo artist

Agreed. I said as much in my guide, and earlier in this thread (multiple times). If you think you'll never reach level 60 or get Torpor, Troll/Iksar Regeneration is better than FSI.

But I caution against assuming you will never reach level 60, because P99 is a long game. When you play a character for years, your ideas on what your character will do may change.

Picking the Min/Max option on character creation (assuming you will reach level 60 with Torpor, Epic, Raid Gear, etc.) is the safest bet for anybody who isn't sure what their character will look like in a year or two.

Anybody who is confident enough in their character creation already is not making threads here about it[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously you do not think Troll/Iksar Regeneration is required to have a good time while leveling. You have a Barbarian Shaman yourself. As an Ogre Shaman myself I agree. You can level a Barbarian/Ogre Shaman just fine, and have fun doing so.

[Toxigen]

i just wanted to be a polar bear

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i just wanted to be a polar bear

They do look good! If you prefer fashion over function, then you already know what race you are going to play. It's whichever race looks the best in your opinion.

You aren't the type of player who would ask what is the Min/Max setup for Shamans. There is nothing wrong with that.

Some players prefer to Min/Max, and may not care as much about fashion. Let's give those players the correct information, so they can decide which race is best for them.

[Snaggles]

Toxigen will have to clarify what he said but I didnt assume he meant only pre-60 since he didn’t say that.

Yea innate regen is only 8hp/tick. Most “serious shamans” once they get torp drop the Fungi tunic and stop casting regrowth. So as mentioned, it’s about FT15-18. Without canni if not always full health it’s 22,800hps an hour, or roughly 40% of that in mana. If you still cast regrowth and have a fungi then it’s quite a bit less.

IMHO for most stuff, a fungi tunic and staff would be ideal kit pieces for any shaman. Torp or not. Innate regen is something. Especially if sitting down for quick afks on occasion.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Toxigen will have to clarify what he said but I didnt assume he meant only pre-60 since he didn’t say that.

Yea innate regen is only 8hp/tick. Most “serious shamans” once they get torp drop the Fungi tunic and stop casting regrowth. So as mentioned, it’s about FT15-18. Without canni if not always full health it’s 22,800hps an hour, or roughly 40% of that in mana. If you still cast regrowth and have a fungi then it’s quite a bit less.

IMHO for most stuff, a fungi tunic and staff would be ideal kit pieces for any shaman. Torp or not. Innate regen is something. Especially if sitting down for quick afks on occasion.

I agree with you that Fungi Staff is still nice on a Torpor Shaman. I have one bagged myself. Fungi Tunic isn't as great because Vindi BP is generally better on a Torpor Shaman. Vindi BP is better at reducing damage spikes. Fungi Staff is a clickie, so you can wear your weapons and use Fungi Staff simultaneously. Unfortunately you cannot wear Fungi Tunic and Vindi BP at the same time. You have to pick one.

I am not sure why you keep mentioning Fungi Tunic and Fungi Staff. They aren't relevant to the racial discussion because all Shaman races can use both. I already outlined how much benefit you get from Iksar/Troll Regeneration specifically on a Torpor Shaman. Iksar/Troll Regeneration is basically the equivalent of FT1 on a Torpor Shaman if you want to compare it to Flowing Thought.

Your Flowing Thought calculations are off for a Torpor Shaman specially. Your FT15-18 idea comes from a Pre-Torpor Shaman who is never at 100% HP.

Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff is +30 HP Regeneration. That is 30 x 10 x 60 = 18000 HP per hour, assuming you are never at 100%. 18000 HP / 1200 HP (Torpor) = 15 casts of Torpor per hour to get the same amount of HP. If you get 1500 HP Torpors, that is 12 casts of Torpor per hour.

12-15 casts of Torpor with Alteration Specialization = 2160-2700 Mana spent per hour on a Torpor Shaman. 2160 / 600 (Mana gained per hour from FT1) = 3.6, and 2700 / 600 (Mana gained per hour from FT1) = 4.5. Fungi Staff is also FT2 in terms of saving the mana you need to cast on Regrowth. That means Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff is somewhere between FT5.6 and FT6.5 on a Torpor Shaman, depending on your Torpor Ticks. Realistically it is lower since a Torpor Shaman is at 100% HP and Mana out of combat. Fungi Tunic + Fungi Staff is probably more like FT4 on average for a Torpor Shaman.

[fortior]

None of that is based on real world evidence though, which still proves that Barbarians are the best shaman race, followed by trolls, with everyone else in a shared third place, following the Solo Artist Challenge Hall of Fame (https://wiki.project1999.com/Solo_Ar...e_Hall_of_Fame). Everything else is just theory.