Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[Duik]

Gif it to me baby. Aaha aha.
And all the ogres say im pretty gay for a straight guy.

[Toxigen]

i aint gay but $20 is $20

[DeathsSilkyMist]

One more small set of changes. Forgot to add the Celerity overhead to the DoT Shaman. Forgot to Add the 1x Cannibalize you do during the Regrowth/Celerity buff sessions. Root should be 27 mana instead of 28 since specialization is a 10% discount. Also forgot to include upkeep costs during pull times.

Criteria
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1. Two Level 58 Shamans. One is an Iksar root/rotting, the other is an Ogre with JBB.
2. Mob does 10 DPS while slowed with Togor's Insects.
3. 7000 HP mob, A Ratfink from PoM Rat Maze.
4. Both Shamans have Fungi Tunic.
5. Both Shamans have Regrowth on themselves, and Haste on their Pets.
6. Regrowth has an upkeep of 1.94 mana per tick on Ogres and 1.95 mana per tick on Iksars over an hour.
7. Celerity has an upkeep of 1.25 mana per tick on Ogres and 1.26 mana per tick on Iksars over an hour.
8. Mortal Deftness has an upkeep of 0.26 mana per tick on Ogres over an hour. The Iksar is not using this spell.
9. Average pull time is 3 ticks (18 seconds).
10. 4x Cannibalize 4 from the 4x Regrowth/Celerity buff sessions to prevent HP from being at 100% has an upkeep of 0.99 HP per tick and -0.55 Mana per tick.
11. Total upkeep is 2.9 mana per tick on Ogres and 2.66 mana per tick on Iksars, 1 HP per tick on both.
12. 2.2 DPS from Blight, Hammer of the Scourge for the JBB Shaman. A Shaman with 135 DEX (75 Base + 60 from Buff) has 1.3 PPM. Fight is 2 minutes, so 2.6 procs per fight on average. Halve that because JBB is halving the number of swings. Reduce to 1.0 to cover for the small time where the mob is rooted. Weapon would proc after the first minute on average. 544 / 2 (half ticks) + 40 (DD) = 312 damage. 312 / 132 seconds = ~2.4 DPS, but we can reduce it to 2.2 again to account for root. This is also not including the white damage from the Hammer itself.

Ogre with JBB
=============
- JBB (32.8 DPS) + Hasted Pet (17 DPS) + Blight, Hammer of the Scourge weapon proc (2.2 DPS) = 53 DPS
- 1320 damage taken from face tanking (10 DPS)
- 158 Mana spent on 1x Togor's Insects after specialization
- 64 Mana spent on upkeep
- 27 Mana spent on 1x Root after specialization to let pet tank for a small period
- 22 HP spent on upkeep
- 120 HP recovered from root. It prevents 80-160 damage at the beginning of the fight, depending on if root breaks after the first or second JBB cast
- 726 HP recovered from Standing Regen (3 HP) + Fungi Tunic (15 HP) + Regrowth (15 HP) over 22 ticks
- 22 Mana recovered from Standing Regen (1 Mana) over 22 ticks

Total HP Spent: 496
Total Mana Spent: 227
Total Fight Time: 132 seconds
Total Meditation Time after combat: 60 seconds to recover 210 Mana. You are still down -136 HP and -17 mana.

192 seconds per encounter. With the 3 tick average pull time, the Shaman would be down -23 Mana and -40 HP per encounter after including upkeep. This will add 1 tick of sitting debt per encounter. Since you are not tied to the 188 second fight time, you can pull earlier if the pull time is longer. 184 or less seconds per encounter on longer pulls, as you are not pulling while fighting.

Iksar without JBB using root/rotting
=============
- 2x Envenomed Bolt (2665 Damage) + 1x Plague (1270 Damage) + Hasted and Regened Pet (17 DPS) = ~37.2 DPS when factoring in DoTs will not be active for the full fight
- 640 Mana spent on 2x Envenomed Bolts
- 300 Mana spent on 1x Plague
- 158 Mana spent on 1x Togor's Insects after specialization
- 27 Mana spent on 1x Root after specialization
- 158 Mana spent on Chloroblast for pet to counter the damage above after specialization
- 83 Mana spent on upkeep
- 61 Mana spent on 1x extra Regrowth upkeep
- 100 Mana and 30 HP spent due to losing 5 Sitting Regen ticks while casting the 5 spells above
- 31 HP spent on upkeep
- 1426 HP recovered from Sitting Regen (16 HP) + Fungi Tunic (15 HP) + Regrowth (15 HP) over 31 ticks
- 651 Mana recovered from Sitting Regen (21 Mana) over 31 ticks
- 485 damage taken to pet (1880 damage - 1395 regenerated from 45 HP a tick), but Chloroblast + 3 tick average pull time would fully recover the pet

Total HP Gained: 1365
Total Mana Spent: 876
Total Fight Time: 188 seconds
Total Recovery Time: 6 seconds. You are down -115 HP and -56 Mana after the fight using Cannibalize 4 during the fight. 1 tick of sitting would put you at -69 HP and -35 Mana.

194 Seconds per encounter. With the 3 tick average pull time, the Shaman would be at -40 Mana per encounter after including upkeep. This will add 2 sitting ticks of debt per encounter. This assumes the Iksar Shaman never fizzled, missed a sitting tick aside from spell casts, never got a spell resist on DoTs, never got a root break, and never got hit during a root break. 188 per encounter on longer pulls. If you choose to pull sooner while the mob is still alive, you need to factor in the risk of leaving your pet by itself to finish the mob.

Realistically the JBB Shaman could start a new encounter 12-18 seconds earlier if they know that the pull is going to be long. Shamans pre-Torpor should not be at 100% HP/Mana while pulling. The DoT Shaman will be spending the full 188 seconds on the encounter. If they decide to pull earlier, they will need to leave the pet alone to finish the mob, which adds risk that the JBB Shaman does not have. The JBB Shaman does not have to worry about fizzling for the most part, missing sitting ticks, spell resists on expensive spells like your DoTs, and root breaks which cost HP and Mana to re-root the mob, plus the loss of at least 1 sitting tick. A resisted JBB cast from time to time costs no mana. A resisted DoT would cost 300 mana, which means you need to spend time out of combat recovering it. This counteracts the occasional JBB resist, which would extend the fight by 8 seconds and cost zero mana.

This is why JBB is better. You end up saving a good amount of HP/Mana per hour by removing many RnG factors from your gameplay. The playstyle is also less complicated.

[Troxx]

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[bcbrown]

You're still using 2.2DPS for the scourge proc when it should be 0.75DPS.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're still using 2.2DPS for the scourge proc when it should be 0.75DPS.

You're using averages wrong, again. Please learn how to use them. This entire example is using averages, which are backed up by in-game data.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Weapon_Procs - looking at the formula, (75 Base + 60 from Buff) DEX/170 + 0.5 = 1.3 PPM. The JBB Shaman is in melee combat for 116 seconds when accounting for the 16 seconds you are rooting + pet tanking.

This means you are getting 2.4 procs per encounter baseline on average. You divide this number by 2 so you can account for the JBB reducing the number of swings you are doing per minute by half. 1 proc per encounter is a very safe bet. The final PPM value is therefore 0.5. This means you are getting an average of 1 proc halfway through the fight on a 2 minute fight. It's a coin flip per minute. If Heads is Success and Tails is a failure, you end up with these possibilities: [Heads, Tails] = Full DoT DPS. [Tails, Tails] = Zero DoT DPS. [Tails, Heads] = Half DoT DPS. [Heads, Heads] = Full DoT DPS. Averaging that out you have [1, 0, 1, 0.5] / 4 = 62.5% of DoT damage on average.

I'll just put it down to 50%, which is 544 Total DoT Damage / 2 (Half Ticks) + 40 (Direct Damage) = 312 / 132 = 2.36 DPS. When including white damage, the total should be realistically more like 3-4 DPS, but I keep it at 2.2 DPS just because it already works well enough.

The Shaman can also put on more DEX gear to increase their PPM, as they only have 135 DEX in my example.

[Toxigen]

yep, we dun gone full 'tard

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're using averages wrong, again. Please learn how to use them.

There you go with the insults. Are you that confident that I'm getting my calculations wrong?

You can't just assume a single proc halfway through the fight. Sometimes there will be long stretches with no procs at all - some fights won't have a single proc. Some fights will have multiple procs back to back - these don't double up the damage, though, because it procs a dot, and so procs don't stack.

You can model the procs as a binomial distribution - a series of weighted coin flips. You can then sum the expected damage from each individual swing and take the average of that.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yep, we dun gone full 'tard

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There you go with the insults. Are you that confident that I'm getting my calculations wrong?

It is genuinely not an insult, nor did I mean it as such. I am stating the fact that you have used averages wrong multiple times in this thread, and have yet to correct the behavior.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can't just assume a single proc halfway through the fight. Sometimes there will be long stretches with no procs at all - some fights won't have a single proc. Some fights will have multiple procs back to back - these don't double up the damage, though, because it procs a dot, and so procs don't stack.

Of course! Nor am I denying that is what will happen in individual fights.

Melee combat works the exact same way as weapon procs. 10 DPS is the average in our example, but sometimes individual fights will be 7 DPS, 13 DPS, etc. On a long enough timeline it still averages out to 10 DPS.

The reason why you are using averages wrong is because you are trying to put a single variable using one type of average into an equation using a different type of average. It is an apples to oranges comparison.

You are basically saying "There was one fight were I got zero procs per minute, therefore you are getting 0 DPS from the proc across the average of all fights". It's not correct.