Ben Stein vs. Everquest

CHusk2 · #1 02-02-2011, 12:47 AM

Hey everybody,

Roughly three hours ago I had the immense privilege of attending a lecture in the traditional Presidential series that takes place at my university. This year the key note speaker was none other than Ben Stein. His speech was amazing and profound to say the least. He covered a lot of ground regarding America's current and past economic status(s) and incorporated some great jokes into the whole thing.

When the lecture was finished he took questions from some of the students, and one of his answers immediately got my attention. He was asked how he felt about the amount of time developing young adults and children spend with media such as t.v. and video games.

Now here's where it all ties in. He responded by (essentially) such media had a "fantastically negative" effect on our culture and specifically cited Everquest, calling it Evercrack. His point was that these things are often taken out of moderation and waste valuable time that people could spend doing other productive things. This tied into some points he had made earlier about America lagging behind in science, math, and history. Mr. Stein made the point that it is very easy for games like Everquest to become addictive and take up exorbitant amounts of time, which is a massive waste of potential in many cases.

The reason I'm posting this is not to knock Everquest or Project 1999. I love everything about Project 1999 and I appreciate all the hard work that it's taken to get it to where it is today. It's unlike any other experience, and the people involved with it are truly unique and amazing.

I just wanted to share that story and propose that we all take a little while to really think about the amount of time we spend Questing and xping vs. the amount of time we spend working, studying, improving our minds, exercising, and experiencing new things.

Thank you Norrath, and may all of your quests yield plentiful experience both in-game and out.

Alkaiser Baneofmistmoore (30 Cleric of Prexus)

President · #2 02-02-2011, 12:52 AM

Ben Stein is pro-life, believes in intelligent design, and likened Obama's rally's during the 2008 presidential race to Hitlers rallies.

Among many other things. That guy can get fucked in the ass by a gorilla, water buffalo, and Uthgaard's banhammer all at the same time.

Tippett · #3 02-02-2011, 12:57 AM

I enjoy alot of Stein's commentaries, but I believe his (alleged) opinions on videogaming is more of the same old generalizations then a real intelligent analysis. A little disappointing.

Uthgaard · #4 02-02-2011, 12:59 AM

Ben Stein's hate for Everquest is due to his son's addiction to it.

Ihealyou · #5 02-02-2011, 01:12 AM

How is doing something you enjoy not productive? I'd say that my happiness is more important than working, studying, or improving my mind. I could have a successful career, be in peak physical condition, and do all the other "productive" stuff he talks about, but at the end of the day, if I'm not happy it doesn't matter. I'd rather enjoy life than do what I'm supposed to do because it looks good.

Hobby · #6 02-02-2011, 01:18 AM

I personally have wasted more time guiding and taking care of these players than i should...just thankful for the large amount of wonderful people I've had the chance to meet that, otherwise, i would never of known.

As much as a waste of time it is, I still feel like I am doing something good.

muddy27 · #7 02-02-2011, 01:28 AM

Anything can be considered a waste of time it just depends on who you ask about the certain subject and how they feel. Life is time we have to find ways to enjoy it and to pass the time, untill our time comes. What someone chooses to do with there free time is there own business. An also anything can become an addiction drinking, gaming, what ever. I think as long as people feel they are successful and are happy with whatever they are doing in life is cool. Life isnt a box of roses alot of time, games help people to escape the confinds of a sometime mundane life and to also meet new people and share experiences.

Lazortag · #8 02-02-2011, 01:32 AM

Stein's position is interesting because if he were just talking about regular video games, it would be extremely apparent that he was full of shit. The cognitive stimulation that someone gets from playing the average video game isn't really any worse than that which you'd be getting from the average book. This isn't to say that people shouldn't read, or that playing video games is an adequate substitution for reading, but rather that both have their benefits.

The truth is that most of our current media is actually way more complex than it was 40 years ago. Even god awful TV shows like Heroes have a bazillion more plotlines going on at once than the average show from back in the day. Again, this isn't to say that shows have gotten *better*, but that they've gotten more complex and stimulating, and that the conventional wisdom that they "rot our brains" is unsupported nonsense.

Video games can be very complex and challenging too. Even some older and simpler games like Smash TV or Contra 3 could be hard as hell and required people to think quickly so that they could avoid getting killed. And yeah, sometimes that meant that players just memorized everything they had to do to win, but that's good in its own way. There have been at least a few studies that I know of linking video games to improved memory, and it's not like that's surprising - people like to win at games, and lots of games reward people with good memories. Replace "people with good memories" with "people who are good at math", "people who think quickly", "people who can spell", "people who can read", etc. and that describes a lot of the people who benefit from games.

Even games that aren't that difficult can stimulate the mind. Lots of early SNES RPG's were really easy, but they were essentially no different from any other story-telling medium. If I were to write down the story to a final fantasy game and make a book or a play out of it, would that make it better somehow? Is there some reason why telling a story by using a video game makes it unstimulating, or are all stories in video games just bad?

Stein's argument is based on two things: the fact that games can be time-consuming, and the idea that the time spent playing games is "wasted potential". That's true insofar as the time spent reading the books in the harry potter series is wasted potential. People spend literally days reading all of those books, so like, shouldn't they be out working minimum wage jobs and stuff? Wouldn't that be more productive?

When people are playing everquest, maybe it's not that clear what cognitive stimulation they're getting out of it. But I'm sure you can't just reduce everquest to mindless grinding, at least not classic everquest, which we all know can be very challenging. The game actually does make people think, balance priorities, add, subtract, read, use basic math, etc. It also does kind of have a story - as I said, the whole experience isn't just limited to mindless leveling. Not to mention, it lets you meet some interesting (to say the least) people, and that's usually a plus.

Also, even though it's not terribly relevant, Ben Stein generally says very stupid things. I think he was the one who tried to argue that muslims were going to take over Europe in 20 years or something? Also if he believes in intelligent design like President says, then that's just unforgivable.

edit: TLDR: stein's dumb.

uohaloran · #9 02-02-2011, 01:58 AM

All things should be taken in moderation. I use that as a general rule.

I figure over 6 years without Everquest was plenty of a rest.

Tippett · #10 02-02-2011, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even games that aren't that difficult can stimulate the mind. Lots of early SNES RPG's were really easy, but they were essentially no different from any other story-telling medium. If I were to write down the story to a final fantasy game and make a book or a play out of it, would that make it better somehow? Is there some reason why telling a story by using a video game makes it unstimulating, or are all stories in video games just bad?

I could read by Kindergarten thanks to videogames. (Take that Steiny!) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]