New Druid Advice from the experts

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask yourself this simple question: when was the last time you were at max health, got beaten up, and died ... but if you'd just had 30 more HP, you would have survived? That situation is incredibly rare, but it's the only time having a few more AC/HP will actually impact you.

You are mixing things up a little bit here. You are correct about HP when it comes to upgrading individual pieces at high levels. At level 60, paying 300DKP for Onyx Chain Sleeves to get +40 HP in the arm slot is silly. That +40 HP from the Onyx Chain Sleeves isn't going to save you 99% of the time, and there are cheaper sleeve options like Vambraces of Discontent.

When twinking a new char, +HP gear is amazing. This is for two reasons:
1. You don't have any HP gear while naked, so putting some on gives you a big initial boost.
2. The way HP scales by level, HP gear is very strong at lower levels.

At level 1, a caster has maybe 20 HP. Getting 6/65 Rings alone at level 1 gives you 6 times the amount of HP you start with. You can survive way better with 6x more HP. You can get 5/55 Rings too if you want to save money, they are like half the price.

A level 30, the +HP gear I have on my Enchanter was basically half of my HP pool. I had somewhere around 400ish HP base, and +400ish HP from gear. So I had 2x the HP I should normally have if I was naked. That helps quite a bit to survive charm breaks. It isn't a difference of 30 HP like you describe.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Smart druids charm until their 40's, because it's the fastest way to gain XP. The goblin ring will save you mana in every one of those charm fights and guarantee you get 100% XP from every kill. That's huge.

You are correct the goblin ring saves mana, but it's player skill that determines if you get 100% XP on kills, not instant cast invis. You are putting way too much emphasis on instant invis, and have no data to support your position that it is significant.

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah well thats the thing. If you're good at the game you don't need one, its just QoL. Doesn't matter if you're arguing for mana savings, never missing 100% xp, etc...all of you dippy doos are wrong.

Which brings us back to the OP: he is a druid on a budget. The last thing he should be buying is a gobby ring.

spells > Tunare DS gloves > velious bracer > velious BP > snare ear > AC/HP gear > epic MQs > goblin ring <------ pay attention to this one OP and disregard the rest of the garbage in this thread

enchanter? sure, you don't need the other clicks so it gets bumped up a little further in the priority list...and you're able to farm cash camps far easier making the cost trivial

You say OP is on a budget, while asking OP to spend like 23k on a Thurg Leather BP MQ before getting basic HP gear like 6/65 rings. This is a silly list in terms of priority, unless you are well funded or in a raiding guild.

Spells come first, you did get that right. Druids can usually make enough money for spells with things like porting. Especially now with less dial a ports working.

Priority should be more like this:
1. Spells
2. Basic cheap HP/Mana gear (6/65 or 5/55 Rings, Golded Jaded Bracelets, Iksar Hide Cap, etc.)
3. Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel (If you can afford before level 45-50, otherwise get other cheaper clickies first)
4. Cheap Kunark Clickies (Elder Spiritists Arms and Gloves)
5. Velious Clickies (Tunare DS Gloves, Thurg BP)
6. Epic MQ

[Snaggles]

I would prioritize the basics. HP and Mana over STA and WIS in the beginning. A bit of MR depending what you like to fight since getting rooted is never good.

Goblin Gaz ring for charming.
Lumi staff is underrated even for single target killing (I did 45-53 in Grobb)
Eventually a Ring of Stealthy Shadows is prime QoL.

I forget if it’s still a thing but recall the Thurg leather bracer clicks Drones of Doom at level 5. Depending on the OP’s level and finances, if that is true I would get one ASAP. A 340hp dot goes a long way in your 20’s and 30’s. It will get you to lumi clicking range and then it’s off to the races.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would prioritize the basics. HP and Mana over STA and WIS in the beginning. A bit of MR depending what you like to fight since getting rooted is never good.

Goblin Gaz ring for charming.
Lumi staff is underrated even for single target killing (I did 45-53 in Grobb)
Eventually a Ring of Stealthy Shadows is prime QoL.

I forget if it’s still a thing but recall the Thurg leather bracer clicks Drones of Doom at level 5. Depending on the OP’s level and finances, if that is true I would get one ASAP. A 340hp dot goes a long way in your 20’s and 30’s. It will get you to lumi clicking range and then it’s off to the races.

Yeah Lumi Staff is a great idea too in terms of clickies. Free damage clickies always go a long way for leveling when it comes to saving mana. Just need to wait until level 46.

If thurg leather bracer is clickable at level 5 (wiki says level 46), that would be a nice leveling piece. OP would need to tag along for a Ring War or two first though, and thurg leather bracers are still around 5.5k with gems.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

spells > Tunare DS gloves > velious bracer > velious BP > snare ear > AC/HP gear > epic MQs > goblin ring <------ pay attention to this one OP and disregard the rest of the garbage in this thread

This is the right list of long-term priorities when you're a druid on a budget mid-40s. Add in ES arms and boots, both of which are cheap and useful. But don't buy MQs! All this stuff is attainable with the exception of the VSR drop.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ask yourself this simple question: when was the last time you were at max health, got beaten up, and died ... but if you'd just had 30 more HP, you would have survived? That situation is incredibly rare, but it's the only time having a few more AC/HP will actually impact you.

Just yesterday I gated out of CT gator pit at 30 health. I remember gating out of Kedge Keep at under 100 health. Today I had a situation where charm broke a little early and I had to manage two gators with ~30% health while I was at 20% mana and 160 health. I've got 163 hp in gear (not counting sta) on this toon. I killed both gators and didn't have to gate. 200hp worth of gear will absolutely prevent some deaths. AC is situationally very very useful.

I remember learning to charm on my first druid in CT gator alley. I went through an entire duration of PoTG without a single successful kill. Every time I'd either get hit so much while trying to charm my first pet, or charm would break early and I'd have two gators on me, etc etc. My gear sucked ass and I had no +hp items. A huge part of my struggle was simply that I had to learn from scratch how to charm, but the gear that would have helped me the most would have been AC and HP. I probably had like 800hp self buffed, and those gators hit in the 70s. Enough AC to turn those 30% max hits into 30% min hits would have been huge. Another huge benefit to +HP is that you don't have to wait till full health, letting most of your healing come more slowly from the super-efficient Regeneration line instead. Regen will give you up to ~400 hp for 100 mana, while Greater Healing is 270hp for 150 mana.

There's lots of charm spots where you can use sow/snare to stay far enough away to never get hit on charm breaks. But there's also several really good charm spots where you'll be in cramped spaces or underwater, and it's in those situations where HP and AC shine.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the right list of long-term priorities when you're a druid on a budget mid-40s.

Not really. Thurg BP costs 23k. If you don't want to pay for an MQ, you need to be high level or have a high level alt to get into a Kael Arena group. OP isn't in their high 50s.

If you are on a budget, you don't have 23k simply sitting around. You can buy Goblin Ring, Lumi Staff (or Thurg bracer if it's clickable at level 5), and 5-10k worth of basic gear first for leveling over time as you acquire plat, and resell that stuff later for other items. Having 15-20k sitting in your bank while you are leveling and naked isn't really helping your leveling process.

The priority list kjs86z2 posted could work if you have a lot of plat or are active in a raiding guild. Otherwise it's kinda silly to pay 23k for free regrowth and be naked in all your other slots. You can get more benefit from multiple clickies and HP/MP gear for the same total price.

Again, this list would be more reasonable for someone on an actual budget, not a kjs86z2 "budget":

1. Spells
2. Basic cheap HP/Mana gear (6/65 or 5/55 Rings, Golded Jaded Bracelets, Iksar Hide Cap, etc.)
3a. Thurg Bracer (if clickable at level 5, and can afford it well before level 45. Otherwise you can get ES Arms for 500 plat with the same DoT)
3b. Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel (If you can afford before level 45)
4. Cheap Kunark Clickies (Elder Spiritists Arms and Gloves)
5. Lumi Staff
6. Velious Clickies (Tunare DS Gloves, Thurg BP)
7. Epic MQ

[bcbrown]

I assumed that by adding the qualifiers "long term" and "mid-40s" the audience would have enough intelligence to understand what I was saying. I guess I forgot who was in the conversation, and I apologize if I confused you. I am explicitly saying that this is the right list of priorities for the long term when you hit the mid 40s and start wondering what upgrades should be next. I am implicitly saying that it is the wrong list of short-term priorities when you're level 5. I am (partially) agreeing with Loramin's critique here.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I assumed that by adding the qualifiers "long term" and "mid-40s" the audience would have enough intelligence to understand what I was saying. I guess I forgot who was in the conversation, and I apologize if I confused you. I am explicitly saying that this is the right list of priorities for the long term when you hit the mid 40s and start wondering what upgrades should be next.

I understood what you were saying. You and kjs86z2 are wrong in the post you are referring to, and you are still wrong in this post. You simply look like an asshole now too by acting condescending.

Remember OP's parameters:
1. New Druid, last report was level 9 I think
2. 5k Budget
3. Mostly soloing

Not sure why you are focusing on a level 40+ list that would require a good amount of plat and/or some non-solo coordinated kills. Tuna Gloves and Kael Arena groups don't really fit a mostly solo player. Unless you are in an active guild, it could take a while to randomly find people who are killing those giants and willing to give you the heads for Tuna Gloves.

By the time you hit 50, you'd probably have these items first if you did well on plat farming:
1. Spells
2. Basic HP/MP gear
3. ES Gloves and Arms
4. Lumi Staff
5. Goblin Ring/Ring of Stealthy Travel

Putting these items on the lowest priority (or not mentioned at all) for a Druid even in their 50's is kinda silly when talking about a character starting out at level 1 with 5k who is mostly soloing.

Lowest priority items for OP are Tuna Gloves, Thurg BP, and Epic MQ, because each of those items will take longer to get (even in your 50s) than all of the ones I mentioned above for someone like OP. If you are rich or in a raid guild, then it will be easier to get those items.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just yesterday I gated out of CT gator pit at 30 health.

But did you start at max health before you went all the way down to 30 health? Because if you didn't, your HP gear didn't help you at all.

All HP gear does is increase your maximum HP. It doesn't prevent damage, it doesn't help you recover faster, it just changes how much HP you have when fully healed.

If you don't heal up to that maximum before every fight, you're not benefiting from that gear.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But did you start at max health before you went all the way down to 30 health? Because if you didn't, your HP gear didn't help you at all.

All HP gear does is increase your maximum HP. It doesn't prevent damage, it doesn't help you recover faster, it just changes how much HP you have when fully healed.

If you don't heal up to that maximum before every fight, you're not benefiting from that gear.

Again, you are mixing things up. As I said previously:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are mixing things up a little bit here. You are correct about HP when it comes to upgrading individual pieces at high levels. At level 60, paying 300DKP for Onyx Chain Sleeves to get +40 HP in the arm slot is silly. That +40 HP from the Onyx Chain Sleeves isn't going to save you 99% of the time, and there are cheaper sleeve options like Vambraces of Discontent.

When twinking a new char, +HP gear is amazing. This is for two reasons:
1. You don't have any HP gear while naked, so putting some on gives you a big initial boost.
2. The way HP scales by level, HP gear is very strong at lower levels.

At level 1, a caster has maybe 20 HP. Getting 6/65 Rings alone at level 1 gives you 6 times the amount of HP you start with. You can survive way better with 6x more HP. You can get 5/55 Rings too if you want to save money, they are like half the price.

A level 30, the +HP gear I have on my Enchanter was basically half of my HP pool. I had somewhere around 400ish HP base, and +400ish HP from gear. So I had 2x the HP I should normally have if I was naked. That helps quite a bit to survive charm breaks. It isn't a difference of 30 HP like you describe.

If you have +400 HP from items and a base of 400 HP at level 30 like my Enchanter, you would normally regenerate well past 50% before doing a fight.

Also remember bind wound only goes to 50% HP for many classes, and doesn't go to 70% until 51 for the lucky classes that can do that. With 2x the HP on my Enchanter, that allows me to bind wound 100% of my naked HP. This doesn't apply as much to a Druid since they have Heal and Regen, but that is another use of Max HP.

[spoil]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are correct the goblin ring saves mana, but it's player skill that determines if you get 100% XP on kills, not instant cast invis. You are putting way too much emphasis on instant invis, and have no data to support your position that it is significant.

It takes zero skill to kill 2 mobs.

The 'skill' is in playing efficiently over your exp session. And that means mana efficiency -- and a big part of that is consistently breaking charm at the last possible moment so you can finish off the mobs with cheaper nukes. So instant charm break kind of sells itself. Hard to quantify how useful it is, but it's very useful if you're an active player who wants to kill as many mobs as possible. And we're not even talking about reverse charming where a split-second charm break is even more important.