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  #4741  
Old 06-19-2024, 10:15 AM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
the true end game answer for named snipes is cleric / enc / enc / wiz without a doubt - there is zero room for debate on this one
Replace the Cleric with a Shaman for the snipe team. Then the Shaman and each enchanter can solo camp three different camps when harder targets aren't up.

The Cleric can't solo, so you'd lose a camp because the Cleric would need to be stapled to an Enchanter, and Enchanters can solo without the Cleric. The Cleric wouldn't be doing too much in this forced pairing most of the time.

The Shaman and Enchanter can pair up if an Enchanter needs help with something.

Wizard can move the pocket Cleric and/or Mage around when needed.

Can you actually name a target that a Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter team could do that a Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter team could not do?
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  #4742  
Old 06-19-2024, 11:01 AM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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lol

Nobody is giving up cleric for shaman in this setup. Complete heal for pets, multiple lines of stuns to include aoe stun, rez, DA, powerful emergency heals Ö
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  #4743  
Old 06-19-2024, 11:38 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is online now
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Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
lol

Nobody is giving up cleric for shaman in this setup. Complete heal for pets, multiple lines of stuns to include aoe stun, rez, DA, powerful emergency heals Ö
I like paci and atone on my cleric [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] sometimes the enc just isnít able to do it.
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  #4744  
Old 06-19-2024, 12:13 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
lol

Nobody is giving up cleric for shaman in this setup. Complete heal for pets, multiple lines of stuns to include aoe stun, rez, DA, powerful emergency heals Ö
Tell us a specific camp that needs the Cleric CHing the pet. The Shaman can tank the mob, removing the need for the pet to take damage. This increases pet damage too, because the pet is hitting the mob from behind. Shaman can buff the pet with Avatar as well.

Plenty of people are fine with dropping the Cleric. Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is an extremely powerful trio. No Cleric needed as a main character. Pocket Cleric is more than capable of handling the occasional res and pet CH.
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  #4745  
Old 06-19-2024, 04:15 PM
Troxx Troxx is offline
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#Im-a-shaman
#I-cant-complete-heal
#i canít cast rez
#my-best-heal (torpor and requires 60) is also a slow
#i cannot cast stun
#my fast heal sucks compared to a cleric
#Awww shamans need not apply Ö


Awww fuck I do not fit into this very narrow theoretical best 4 person all caster group Ö

#SadSilkyMist
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  #4746  
Old 06-19-2024, 04:18 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
#Im-a-shaman
#I-cant-complete-heal
#i canít cast rez
#my-best-heal (torpor and requires 60) is also a slow
#i cannot cast stun
#my fast heal sucks compared to a cleric
#Awww shamans need not apply Ö


Awww fuck I do not fit into this very narrow theoretical best 4 person all caster group Ö

#SadSilkyMist
As you can see, Troxx is unable to explain his position, and cannot name even one camp that needs a Cleric CHing an Enchanter pet.

He is also unable to acknowledge that pocket Clerics are common practice, because people recognize you don't need a Cleric main in your group for reses. Necromancers can res as well.

Troxx doesn't understand the Shaman can tank the mob and Torpor themselves, which means the pets are not slowed, and not taking damage. This also allows the pets to do more damage via hitting the mob from behind. The Shaman can buff the pets too.

Thank you for conceding that you are unable to explain why you think a Cleric is better than a Shaman in this group. You wouldn't be trolling if this was easy for you to explain.

Remember that Troxx is an admitted troll, and thus we cannot simply take his word for anything:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=114

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Look guys, Iím an honest fella. I will readily admit to having engaged in trolling behavior with regards to DSM. You all have functioning brain cells Ö so I know that you all already know this. I also know that many of you also have done this. Iím not apologetic in the slightest sense of the word either.
He needs to back up his position with facts and logic, not typical trolling.
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  #4747  
Old 06-19-2024, 07:40 PM
Vexenu Vexenu is offline
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Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
cleric / enc / druid / necro would make for a bonkers chardonk crew...you could XP in there from 52-60 and make some sweet monies along the way while keeping it spicy / challenging / fun with basically zero pain on wipes
Yeah, this would probably be the most fun but also still very powerful caster group without dual enchanters. Obviously abusing the triple charm when possible. But even when unable to charm, the Druid and Necro add nice utility.

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Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
save the shaman for when this hypothetical group of friends wants to do another melee-focused round of 4: shaman + bard + monk + whatever
Paladin or Rogue...tough call. Probably depends on how good the Bard is.
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  #4748  
Old 06-19-2024, 09:29 PM
7thGate 7thGate is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Tell us a specific camp that needs the Cleric CHing the pet. The Shaman can tank the mob, removing the need for the pet to take damage. This increases pet damage too, because the pet is hitting the mob from behind. Shaman can buff the pet with Avatar as well.
This is kind of an interesting question, because you need to find something that actually needs the extra power from the cleric, at which point you're going to start to have questions about whether you can actually even do the camp at all with a cleric/ench/ench/X team.

For example, I actually think Derakor the Vindicator is doable by Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid, and he's very clearly not doable by Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid. But that's right at the bleeding edge of what's possible, I don't think anyone has actually done that before.

There's some other stuff I can think of that might qualify, but some of them are pretty scary for a 4 man.

I think you might be able to do HoT minis with charmed hatchlings, but the pull and setup would be some crazy nonsense. If you can get Essedera pulled somehow (quad mage run in and back up to train out to west, maybe?) then I think you can have a cleric do a picture room trainout with brazier pet and gate to ToV entrance on tag. I think cleric CH on charmed pets can stay ahead of incoming damage once slowed, but I don't think torpor can.

I've heard Sleeper's Tomb trash clears leverage clerics well because charmed pets have like 30k hp, but I don't have a key so I'm not sure about details there.

Neb, maybe. He does like 700 dps while hasted, so probably 100 or so slowed? Probably too much for just Torp, but likely ok for CH.

Edit: Maybe Vaniki? Hits a little harder than Neb, but not a lot. Might be able to do with Cleric/Ench/Ench/Magician?

There's probably more, but those are the things that come to mind.
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Last edited by 7thGate; 06-19-2024 at 09:48 PM..
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  #4749  
Old 06-19-2024, 10:08 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
This is kind of an interesting question, because you need to find something that actually needs the extra power from the cleric, at which point you're going to start to have questions about whether you can actually even do the camp at all with a cleric/ench/ench/X team.

For example, I actually think Derakor the Vindicator is doable by Cleric/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid, and he's very clearly not doable by Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Druid. But that's right at the bleeding edge of what's possible, I don't think anyone has actually done that before.

There's some other stuff I can think of that might qualify, but some of them are pretty scary for a 4 man.

I think you might be able to do HoT minis with charmed hatchlings, but the pull and setup would be some crazy nonsense. If you can get Essedera pulled somehow (quad mage run in and back up to train out to west, maybe?) then I think you can have a cleric do a picture room trainout with brazier pet and gate to ToV entrance on tag. I think cleric CH on charmed pets can stay ahead of incoming damage once slowed, but I don't think torpor can.

I've heard Sleeper's Tomb trash clears leverage clerics well because charmed pets have like 30k hp, but I don't have a key so I'm not sure about details there.

Neb, maybe. He does like 700 dps while hasted, so probably 100 or so slowed? Probably too much for just Torp, but likely ok for CH.

Edit: Maybe Vaniki? Hits a little harder than Neb, but not a lot. Might be able to do with Cleric/Ench/Ench/Magician?

There's probably more, but those are the things that come to mind.
I always appreciate your posts on the bleeding edge gameplay. It's awesome! I also agree it's tough to think of a camp where the Clerics power is really needed, while also being doable with a four player caster group (no Warrior).

My assumption going into this thread has always been a relatively "normal" group. They'd do the obvious money camps like Fungi King, maybe go into Hate if they are feeling courageous.

Doing a low man Vindi is awesome, but not worth the time/effort/guild competition for most players. Vindi BP is like 100k, but it would be easier to just get and sell a few Fungis. This is more of a "because it's awesome!" kill, rather than a normal thing a group would be doing.

Once you are at the point where you are trying to low-man vindi, you probably aren't restricting yourself in terms of group size and classes. You'll do whatever it takes to get the job done.
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  #4750  
Old 06-19-2024, 10:13 PM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
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Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I've heard Sleeper's Tomb trash clears leverage clerics well because charmed pets have like 30k hp, but I don't have a key so I'm not sure about details there.
The pets have good hp but slowing is unreliable with only tash so you're back to valueing the shaman in addition to the cleric imo, although maybe a mage could work. I doubt that the shaman could tank+heal even preslowing.

I think the clearest case for me is Chardok Overking. Duoable but rough for ench+cleric. I don't think it's slowable or shaman self heal tankable.

I did have a pretty good experience duoing a round of puppets ench/shaman with the shaman torp tanking, would do it again given we have a pocket cleric available.
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