the i dont care about politics anymore thread

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well here I’ll allow this reason this is the most like strong reason to have abortion. It’s self-aware and understands the reasoning behind people wanting to have abortion…

Yea I’d say this is it!

thanks, even if it's legal i want to be clear i'm still not really in favor of killing babies or getting pregnant without the intent to create life and support it fully both situations are failure states personally for me

people shouldnt be rewarded for killing eachother either

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

no one right now is forcing women to get pregnant or kill their babies

why make a law that says they can't make that decision if neccissary?

Nobody is forcing anyone to go into debt

yet that doesn't stop the same people who are pro abortion from wanting to get rid of student loans...

So lets get this straight, the same people that want to terminate their pregnancies are the ones that are afraid of getting one because they're in the middle of a 4+ year bender they took out 200k in loans to pay for and they want a job at the end of it not a liability.

This isnt about forced abortions, it's about abortions and easy solutions being worse for society than a few unwanted kids in foster care.

And horza/whale dont act like you care more about those kids than I do because your version of care is: Life is better if you are dead.

[Thorgrimm]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thats the best argument i make so enjoy the rest of ur day and consider reflecting on how jesus christ would treat someone who aborted their child

Matthew 18:6

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

[Jibartik]

keep in mind that best argument was

the us government nor do the people advocating for more laws or banning things respect the sanctity of life because they are more conserned about controlling others for the sake of moral supporiority rather than providing solutions to suffering and creating a more egalitarian society

What I am taking from this is that pro abortion folks want to advocate for their moral superiority rules because they actually argue that abortion is better than without.

It's a belief system based on killing people to make life better for those same people, because life would have been worse than being dead (for unwanted children)

It's the most insane religious cult in the world today.

By being self aware, I thought we all saw that it was a wolf being self aware that they want to control people's reproductive systems by convincing them to kill their babies the same way preditory loan companies convince those same people to take out more money in loans than anyone in their family has ever made in a life time.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is forcing anyone to go into debt

yet that doesn't stop the same people who are pro abortion from wanting to get rid of student loans...

So lets get this straight, the same people that want to terminate their pregnancies are the ones that are afraid of getting one because they're in the middle of a 4+ year bender they took out 200k in loans to pay for and they want a job at the end of it not a liability.

This isnt about forced abortions, it's about abortions and easy solutions being worse for society than a few unwanted kids in foster care.

And horza/whale dont act like you care more about those kids than I do because your version of care is: Life is better if you are dead.

You believe that the government knows best how to allocate life and wealth.

I don't.

Neither of us believe killing people or babies is morally superior.

I believe that the government is part of the system enforcing artificial scarcity and protecting the system of loans and debtors you speak of and is far less qualified to enforce our collective will. Which should be individual will>local >global will.

I don't believe rich and powerful collectives and institutions have the right even if they have the authority. It's clear abortion is just the tip of a social iceberg we've been neglecting and you feel the government can help address this.

The point at which we disagree is simply whose authority and whether the authority resting with the government is helpful or harmful.

I believe we both value individual autonomy.

So, we don't really disagree about abortion. We disagree about police and law and government.

I'm a bit callous, I do really care though, I also care about the less fortunate or disabled or those without privilege, power, money, freedom, or land and autonomy .

[Jibartik]

No i dont. I believe that people do.

There is so much like baggage added to my arguments with people about the Goberment.

In my opinoin the goberment is 100% a non factor.

It's pretty basic: If you put penis in vagina, chance maybe baby come out, if so life is dedicated to baby now not yourself. That's all I want, for the laws of nature to exist.

You're arguing that the goberment get involved and have its courts make a unilateral scientific decision on when consciousness is downloaded into a baby that cannot be challenged.

lol I live in a mad house.

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No i dont. I believe that people do.

There is so much like baggage added to my arguments with people about the Goberment.

In my opinoin the goberment is 100% a non factor.

It's pretty basic: If you put penis in vagina, chance maybe baby come out, if so life is dedicated to baby now not yourself. That's all I want, for the laws of nature to exist.

You're arguing that the goberment get involved and have its courts make a unilateral scientific decision on when consciousness is downloaded into a baby that cannot be challenged.

lol I live in a mad house.

If you make babies. No one else is obligated to care for them. Even if they want to and often try to. That is our nature and the case government or not.

If people are killed because of economic stress or laws which create or enable dependence and inequality. The government doesn't care so long as it's or the control of those supporting said government isn't threatened. It's even more callous and stagnating than Odin's, Gia's, Terra's, mother or father natures rules.

We tried to codify the 40,000 commandments into ten in a piece of paper than we gave that paper the weight of state surveillance, swat, machine guns, bombs, drones and AI facial recognition and kangaroo courts.

I'm antigovernment. Not prochoice.

It's as simple as that.

I hope your conscience is carried out by the government. That'd be great. I do believe it is delusional to expect the government to fix this. Pro or against. I do believe that eugenics and killing already happens in Amazon's brand name already. So I do not respect these laws. Even if I respect the principles behind them.

[Jibartik]

But here we go again, that's straight up goberment/economic eugenics.

Im willing to deal with the stress that extra kids put on society. I dont think because population is an issue that we should instead add the unnecessary stress of determining who gets to push their ideas of who gets to live and who doesn't.

If the question was about how we could stop all cancer by genetically engineering kids then I would have some serious difficulty in saying no to that.

But if the question is people have it rough and some people think that they're better off not even existing, so let the goverment decide that it's ok to throw some kids into the trash can, then Im not in.

I think that's worse for society than a 1st world western one dealing with unwanted pregnancies.

[unsunghero]

Black women have been getting abortions at 4x the rate of white women for 20+ years

Makes the eugenics angle a little more twisted. Also makes pro-choicers seem a little more racist, at least to a pro-lifer, I would assume

Pro-choicer: “what the world needs is fewer black births”

Kidding

[starkind]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But here we go again, that's straight up goberment/economic eugenics.

Im willing to deal with the stress that extra kids put on society. I dont think because population is an issue that we should instead add the unnecessary stress of determining who gets to push their ideas of who gets to live and who doesn't.

If the question was about how we could stop all cancer by genetically engineering kids then I would have some serious difficulty in saying no to that.

But if the question is people have it rough and some people think that they're better off not even existing, so let the goverment decide that it's ok to throw some kids into the trash can, then Im not in.

I think that's worse for society than a 1st world western one dealing with unwanted pregnancies.

So, let me get this right.

My words, not exactly my beliefs, close enough though.

Capitalism and corporations are coercing women to kill or abandon their children out of fear or necessity.

And.

You believe that the government can help or save these children. And women. And that we are morally obligated to help them through the government.

I believe it failed in many cases, and only my own actions have thus far enabled my survival. I also believe it is morally superior to care for and support eachother. I don't believe that the government does this, or is effective at caring for people. I also believe that laws for and against abortion are both equally liable to kill people and cause further abandonment and neglect. That is how I feel and through the lense and anecdote of my life, know things are. What I personally know I or we cannot and can in reality control.

We should reform our society, culture, government, and economy before legislating on these moral issues. Our current culture and economic system is entirely untenable regardless of whether abortion is legal. More laws create more avenues for waste, oppression, and the invasion of privacy. Create more dependence. Create more taxation, police, and beuricracy. And support more abuses via capitalism and corporate institutions. Or more avenues of fraud through institutions.