Iksar Shaman - Solo Challenges?

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure. You didn't include the proc rate, however.

One point of note: You're saying that in the first scenario, there's no tick at t=0?

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks

Should it be 112 or 136? Should we include the tick at t=0?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One point of note: You're saying that in the first scenario, there's no tick at t=0?

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks

Should it be 112 or 136? Should we include the tick at t=0?

It's 112. In all scenarios the Dot doesn't tick immediately when it lands. t=0 is the DD (40), t=6 is DD +1 tick of DoT Damage (64), t=12 is DD + 2 ticks of DoT Damage (88), t=18 is DD + 3 ticks of DoT Damage (112).

[bcbrown]

Noted and agreed upon - 112 damage for a single proc at t=0.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure!

1. 135 DEX (75 base + 60 from Mortal Deftness) = 135/170 + 0.5 = 1.3 Procs Per Minute, assuming you only auto attack.

2. Hammer swings immediately when turning auto attack on at the start of the fight, and after every JBB cast. This is 7.5/12.5 swings per minute. 7.5/12.5 = 0.6 x 1.3 = 0.78 Procs Per Minute using JBB.

3. We can use 4 server ticks if you want to include 0. This means t=0, t=6, t=12, t=18.

5. 3 swings/7.5 swings = 40% of our normal PPM. 0.78 x 0.4 = 31.2% chance to proc per 18 second fight.

1.3 base rate PPM.

Base delay is 4.7 seconds, or 60/4.7 = 12.76 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.76 swings/minute) or 0.10 procs/swing - every swing has a 10% chance to proc.

Because we only swing every 8 seconds, we get 7.5 swings per minute.

Since, for the binomial distribution, E[X] = np, or the probability per event times the number of events, 10% * 7.5 or 0.75 procs per minute. This is close enough to your 0.78 procs per minute - I think the difference is that I'm using 12.76 swings/minute and you're using 12.5. If I calculate the expected number of procs in 3 swings using 12.5 instead, I also get 31.2%

This good with you? Mind if I continue using 12.76 swings/minute?

Oh, and I will be including the possibility of an extra 40dd if there's more than one proc.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Noted and agreed upon - 112 damage for a single proc at t=0.



1.3 base rate PPM.

Base delay is 4.7 seconds, or 60/4.7 = 12.76 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.76 swings/minute) or 0.10 procs/swing - every swing has a 10% chance to proc.

Because we only swing every 8 seconds, we get 7.5 swings per minute.

Since, for the binomial distribution, E[X] = np, or the probability per event times the number of events, 10% * 7.5 or 0.75 procs per minute. This is close enough to your 0.78 procs per minute - I think the difference is that I'm using 12.76 swings/minute and you're using 12.5. If I calculate the expected number of procs in 3 swings using 12.5 instead, I also get 31.2%

This good with you? Mind if I continue using 12.76 swings/minute?

Oh, and I will be including the possibility of an extra 40dd if there's more than one proc.

No, stick to the 12.5 swings per minute since that is what I did. Keeps things consistent.

[bcbrown]

Updated to 12.5 swings per minute - I assume we're good here now.

1.3 base rate PPM.

Base delay is 4.7 seconds, simplified to 12.5 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.5 swings/minute) or 0.104 procs/swing - every swing has a 10.4% chance to proc.

Because we only swing every 8 seconds, we get 7.5 swings per minute.

Since, for the binomial distribution, E[X] = np, or the probability per event times the number of events, 10.4% * 7.5 or 0.78 procs per minute.

Now I want to move on and extend this list:

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=8 swing, damage is 88: 40 + two ticks of 24. Those two ticks are the 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=16 swing, damage is 64: 40 + one tick of 24. That is the 18 tick
If there's no proc, damage is 0.

If there's two procs at t=0 and t=8, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=0 and t=16, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=8 and t=16, the total damage is 112: first proc provides 88, second proc adds 40dd.
If all three swings proc, the total damage is 192: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd, third proc adds 40dd.

Those calculations all work for you?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Updated to 12.5 swings per minute - I assume we're good here now.

1.3 base rate PPM.

Base delay is 4.7 seconds, simplified to 12.5 swings per minute. At a base rate of 1.3 PPM, that means each swing is:
(1.3 Proc/minute) / (12.5 swings/minute) or 0.104 procs/swing - every swing has a 10.4% chance to proc.

Because we only swing every 8 seconds, we get 7.5 swings per minute.

Since, for the binomial distribution, E[X] = np, or the probability per event times the number of events, 10.4% * 7.5 or 0.78 procs per minute.

Now I want to move on and extend this list:

If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=0 swing, damage is 112: 40 + three ticks of 24. Those three ticks are the t=6, 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=8 swing, damage is 88: 40 + two ticks of 24. Those two ticks are the 12, 18 ticks
If there's only one proc, and it's on the t=16 swing, damage is 64: 40 + one tick of 24. That is the 18 tick
If there's no proc, damage is 0.

If there's two procs at t=0 and t=8, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=0 and t=16, the total damage is 152: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd.
If there's two procs at t=8 and t=16, the total damage is 112: first proc provides 88, second proc adds 40dd.
If all three swings proc, the total damage is 192: first proc provides 112, second proc adds 40dd, third proc adds 40dd.

Those calculations all work for you?

There is no reason to calculate more than one proc during the duration the fight, because we are mostly interested in the DoT. All this does is increase the DPS values I've already provided when it does happen. Your average procs per minute is the same, regardless of whether you proc 0 times in one battle and 3 in the next. Over an infinite amount of battles it still averages out to 0.78 procs per minute.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is no reason to calculate more than one proc during the duration the fight, because we are mostly interested in the DoT. All this does is increase the DPS values I've already provided when it does happen. Your average procs per minute is the same, regardless of whether you proc 0 times in one battle and 3 in the next. Over an infinite amount of battles it still averages out to 0.78 procs per minute.

We need to include the possibility of the proc triggering more than once in a fight, because it's possible that it can happen.

You agree it's possible for a proc to trigger back to back on two swings, right?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We need to include the possibility of the proc triggering more than once in a fight, because it's possible that it can happen.

You agree it's possible for a proc to trigger back to back on two swings, right?

I agree that it's possible. It just holds no relevance because all it would do is increase the DPS average I've already provided. Procing 3 times in one minute holds no bearing over the next minute over infinite battles.

[bcbrown]

And you agree with my damage calculations in the case of two or three procs in this scenario?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you agree with my damage calculations in the case of two or three procs in this scenario?

I disagree with you thinking there is relevance to the discussion. At the end of the day you are claiming the DPS is lower than 2.7. If you happen to proc another DD, it doesn't decrease the DPS value.

More DPS only supports my position further, so it's fine if we leave out any extra. Remember I am also leaving out white damage.