Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Unless you need CoTH, Shaman is objectively better. A Torpor Shaman is a really good way to reduce how much mana your Enchanters and Cleric are using. They Malo and Slow (so the Enchanters don't have to), Heal (so the Cleric doesn't always have to) and self-regenerate their own mana. Plus the buffs and heals help keep the party going. If you need a pet for tanking charm breaks, Shaman pet can tank just fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuVBewCNgY . They can DPS fine too if you are doing well with Epic DoT, Pox, Bane, JBB, etc.

But I agree if you do need CoTH, dropping the Shaman would probably be the right move, since Mage can take over the Malo duty.

Shaman is a waste. All these things you speak of, the cleric/enchanter/mage can handle. The more the shaman does, the more mana the other classes will have just sitting there doing nothing with. Enchanter/cleric will have plenty of mana for slows/heals.

Mage can malo & do superior dps, and provide rods/coth when needed. Add in mage epic pet eventually, and it's gg.

Only situation where I like shaman more than mage is if you need to keep both torp/cheal goin to win...but I doubt that's the case for 99% of situations.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman is a waste. All these things you speak of, the cleric/enchanter/mage can handle. The more the shaman does, the more mana the other classes will have just sitting there doing nothing with. Enchanter/cleric will have plenty of mana for slows/heals.

Mage can malo & do superior dps, and provide rods/coth when needed. Add in mage epic pet eventually, and it's gg.

Only situation where I like shaman more than mage is if you need to keep both torp/cheal goin to win...but I doubt that's the case for 99% of situations.

Having mana sitting is good when Charm can break at any time[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Your group is dead if you can't control the situation. Shaman gives you much better consistency, and you don't really lose DPS when compared to a Mage. Remember Shaman's have plenty of DoTs, two free damage clickies, and a pet. This is at level 60 with Torpor.

Mage is better before level 60 or if you need CoTH.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Having mana sitting is good when Charm can break at any time[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Your group is dead if you can't control the situation. Shaman gives you much better consistency, and you don't really lose DPS when compared to a Mage. Remember Shaman's have plenty of DoTs and two free damage clickies. This is at level 60.

Mage is only better before level 60 or if you need CoTH.

That's what a beefy mage pet is for, to provide that security blanket if charm breaks.

I don't see shaman providing the same level of sustained dps at 60 when compared to a c2'd mage with their final water/epic pet.

But if you have some data I'd like to see it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what a beefy mage pet is for, to provide that security blanket if charm breaks.

I don't see shaman providing the same level of sustained dps at 60 when compared to a c2'd mage with their final water/epic pet.

But if you have some data I'd like to see it [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Enchanters are providing the vast majority of the DPS via charmed pets. The Mage pet isn't doing that much hehe. Shamans can do fine DPS-wise.

Shaman pet has 2400 HP with FoS, and you can Torpor it. That is decently tanky. A Water pet only has 2500 HP hehe. It is providing security just fine, plus all the Shaman healing/slows/buffs.

I am not considering Epic Pets, because that is just really rare hehe. There are a LOT more Torpor Shamans than Epic Mages.

[Danth]

If you already have two charm pets wrecking everything nobody is going to notice or care how much damage anyone else does. Malo is nice. Alternately a necromancer for feign--rezz is nice since it allows the group to keep its camp presence when the charm RNG decides to kill them once in awhile. That'll be such a group's primary cause of failures. Sucks not having ports in a 4 man group but the best way to handle that is have your two most active players level up port alts.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Enchanters are providing the vast majority of the DPS via charmed pets. The Mage pet isn't doing that much hehe. Shamans can do fine DPS-wise.

Shaman pet has 2400 HP with FoS, and you can Torpor it. That is decently tanky. A Water pet only has 2500 HP hehe. It is providing security just fine, plus all the Shaman healing/slows/buffs.

I am not considering Epic Pets, because that is just really rare hehe. There are a LOT more Torpor Shamans than Epic Mages.

I'm not denying shamans can do decent dps. But if it's substantially behind a mage providing DS/dots/nukes with a phinny staff water pet(since we're not assuming epics) then there's no point to having them really.

It's hard to know this though, we'd have to see what a shaman vs mage could sustain at 60.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not denying shamans can do decent dps. But if it's substantially behind a mage providing DS/dots/nukes with a phinny staff water pet(since we're not assuming epics) then there's no point to having them really.

It's hard to know this though, we'd have to see what a shaman vs mage could sustain at 60.

Yeah I would love to see some mage DPS data. I could provide the Shaman DPS data.

[zelld52]

In PoP the best 4 casters / /priest crew was 3 mages + 1 cleric.... or just 4 mages

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah I would love to see some mage DPS data. I could provide the Shaman DPS data.

Troxx has a 60 mage and has run many parses, I am betting he can provide this data as well.

[Keebz]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sucks not having ports in a 4 man group but the best way to handle that is have your two most active players level up port alts.

Between PoM bind, OT hammer and Thurg pots, you can pretty much get anywhere you wanna farm. For the other occasions there's DaP.