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  #71  
Old 02-04-2023, 09:21 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Agreed gnome is superior level and solo race purely for 40% haste buff. No racial will equal that. 20% more then eye patch for basically free.
Oh yeah, for warriors Gnome is great with the clockwork arms. I am running that myself for my baby warrior. FSI matters more for different classes. I think FSI is best for Shamans, for Warriors and Shadowknights it isn't as great.
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  #72  
Old 02-05-2023, 01:03 PM
greatdane greatdane is offline
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A lot of this is either demonstrably incorrect or pointlessly misleading.

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Originally Posted by ya.dingus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
- Ogre classes do not parse higher than their other race counter parts when stat capped.
Ther are no ogre DPS classes and there's no point parsing the tank's DPS. FSI only comes into play when tanking. It's an undisputable fact that if you don't get stunned, you won't miss out on swings that would have occurred when stunned as another race; but it isn't a very big difference.

Quote:
- There is no statistical margin that has been proven that shows ogres die less than other races because of FSI
That's because FSI does not affect raw survivability. It's a convenience that prevents you going into spin mode if you happened to be repositioning when you got bashed, or to avoid having your casts interrupted as SK/shaman. The lack of statistics doesn't prove it makes no difference. Every time an ogre shaman has successfully cast a spell that prevented a death but would have been interrupted if he were not an ogre, FSI caused one fewer death to happen. It's a non-zero number of times. Nobody has kept count.

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- There is no statistical results that show Ogre shaman are anymore successful at solo challenges than their counter parts
Nobody is recording statistics like that. There's also no statistic that proves characters with SoW can run from Kelethin to Felwithe in less time than characters with jboots... because it's not something anyone has ever felt the need to ascertain. It is an undeniable fact that avoiding stuns from bash is helpful for soloing. It's pants-on-head idiotic to claim otherwise. The only question is whether one finds it more helpful than what the other races get, and that's a matter of personal opinion. Denying its existense is insanity.

Quote:
  • FSI fails to be useful anytime a creature is:
  • Slowed
  • Kicking instead of bashing because they have access to it
  • You're not face tanking it
And CH fails to be useful if nobody is taking damage, snare fails to be useful if the mob isn't being kited or runs at low HP, backstab fails to be useful if you're not behind the mob, etc. Meaningless drivel.

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- Bash still stops you from casting even if you're not stunned
Only a small percent of the time. The majority of the time, bash will not interrupt if you have FSI. I'd say it's like a 60-70% chance to avoid interruption.

Quote:
- Situational Vacuums have to be created to justify FSI:
  • What if there are 4 mobs on you, just back into a wall and you can cast!
    (If there are 4, at level mobs on you in end game, you're dead even if you get a single spell off. That's just fact.)
    (Maybe there is a case for FD, but chances are if you're in a high level dungeon, there's a caster, and if you're waiting for the perfect time to FD because you dont want it breaking in spell hit, you're dead most likely anyway.)
  • What if you're trying to heal with the last second heal, and you get bashed and
    die!
    (Why didn't you heal before you got that low? At best, it's a 2% situation encounter)
More made-up nonsense. FSI is useful literally every single time you get bashed while casting and it prevented the interruption that other races would have suffered.

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There's only one thing you can count FSI doing that is actually reliable:
- Keeping you from being knocked back by tunare. That's it. It's the only thing you can count on for it. Everything else is hyperbole, or inaccuracy.
...or, you know, literally every single time throughout your character's life that you get bashed while casting a spell and it prevented interruption. It's rich for you to call out "hyoperbole or inaccuracy" when your post is literally nothing but that. If you're trying to say that an ability has no value unless it's guaranteed to work every time, you must also believe that parry, dodge, melee attacks, and the entire metaphysical concept of chance is non-existent. If something's helpful a lot of the time, you can't just ignore the times it's helpful and decide that only the times it didn't matter count.

Quote:
Seriously, why are we taking advice from players who show the same IQ score as their character's stat screen.
Pretty sure my ogre is smarter than you.

OP made a non-ogre shaman and is grasping for copium to convince himself he isn't missing out on anything.
Last edited by greatdane; 02-05-2023 at 01:31 PM..
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  #73  
Old 02-05-2023, 03:07 PM
Snaggles Snaggles is offline
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Ogre warriors (or any 60 warrior) can dps just fine. People tanking don’t dps; while dpsing you arent tanking. Different weapons and discs.

The one thing that most people agree on is their race choice is the best. People who play ogres, trolls, and Iksars tend to be theoretical min-maxers more than looking for the RP or lore elements. They struggle to come to grips that their choice which was strictly for superiority isn’t that superior after all. In general they are less likely to find joy in self-deprecating humor because of this pixel yard-stick of how they are better inherently than another ___ race of their same class.

Are racial perks real? Yes.
Do they make a notable difference? Rarely.

Just pick a race. Pick a class. Get good at it.


Ps: Paladins get a spell called Divine Purpose. It trades 8hp regen for 3mana. Wanna guess how much of the time we use it at 60, lol? Hint: I forgot the name and had to look it up.
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  #74  
Old 02-05-2023, 03:53 PM
ya.dingus ya.dingus is offline
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  #75  
Old 02-05-2023, 06:32 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is offline
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if you cant wear a PD robe then you already chose wrong race, hope that helps. My pally looks much better wearing it then your ogre ever will.
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  #76  
Old 02-05-2023, 07:25 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
if you cant wear a PD robe then you already chose wrong race, hope that helps. My pally looks much better wearing it then your ogre ever will.
Wearing robes is silly on plate classes. Plate looks way cooler.

I wish there were more plate fashion sets for casters. Full Efreeti always looks great.
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  #77  
Old 02-05-2023, 07:50 PM
Ripqozko Ripqozko is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Wearing robes is silly on plate classes. Plate looks way cooler.

I wish there were more plate fashion sets for casters. Full Efreeti always looks great.
Its ok to be wrong sometimes, this is one of those times. hope that helps.
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  #78  
Old 02-06-2023, 06:46 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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My 59 warrior has been hit by bash from lava duct crawlers 301 times (while playing on one of my laptops) in February and got stunned 3 times.

Edit there were 1095 missed bashes making 1396 bash attempts in total.

0.2% of bash attempts resulted in a stun. I haven't controlled for facing on these, just assumed they were all to the front.

From a bottomfeeding solo tank perspective FSI is not doing much.
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Last edited by Jimjam; 02-06-2023 at 07:14 AM..
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  #79  
Old 02-06-2023, 07:22 AM
Jimjam Jimjam is offline
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That is 88 kills, which at 3 minutes per kill is about 4 hours 24 mins of tanking.

To make the same xp, and avoid those three stuns, an ogre would have had to spend almost an hour more killing spiders. Obviously that extra time would not be a problem if you are playing EQ for the enjoyment of it, but an impediment if you are rushing through levels (in which case you probably wouldn't be soloing LDCs at 59 anyway).
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  #80  
Old 02-06-2023, 11:39 AM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
My 59 warrior has been hit by bash from lava duct crawlers 301 times (while playing on one of my laptops) in February and got stunned 3 times.

Edit there were 1095 missed bashes making 1396 bash attempts in total.

0.2% of bash attempts resulted in a stun. I haven't controlled for facing on these, just assumed they were all to the front.

From a bottomfeeding solo tank perspective FSI is not doing much.
That is a very small sample size, so it isn't a good indicator of stun chance.

I have 4000 recorded kills on my Shadowknight, levels 55-58. He is mostly killing mobs in the low 40s as well, which roughly matches with your LDC example.

Here is the data:

Troll SK 55-58
===============
4000 total kills

448 total stuns from bashes

6519 successful bashes

12040 missed bashes

2262 successful kicks

4678 missed kicks

This shows that 70% of bash/kick attempts are bashes. 25499 x 0.7 = 17849, and the total number of bash attempts were 18,559. The numbers are close enough to be pretty confident 70% is the average, and I got bashed slightly above the average.

For stun chance, that is (448/6519) x 100 = 6.87% chance to be stunned per successful bash. 6.87 x 0.7 (chance to bash over kick) = 4.8%, which is probably round-able to 5%.

So for a high 50s tank fighting mobs in the low 40s, your chance to be stunned is around 5% per bash/kick attempt.

However, this lower stun chance may be due to the level difference between yourself and the mob. The level difference is 10+ levels generally speaking in both of our cases.

For my lower level characters, my chance to be stunned is much higher. This is probably due to them mostly soloing mobs that are only plus or minus 2 levels.

Human Enchanter 13-30
=======================
578 total kills

452 total stuns from bashes

1313 successful bashes

830 missed bashes

567 successful kicks

356 missed kicks

Gnome Warrior 1-24
==================
1194 total kills

377 total stuns from bashes

1408 successful bashes

1812 missed bashes

578 successful kicks

733 missed kicks

Iksar Monk 10-40
=================
1547 total kills

1471 total stuns from bashes

4058 successful bashes

4529 missed bashes

1878 successful kicks

2116 missed kicks

Aggregate:
=======
3,319 total kills

2300 stuns from bashes

6,779 successful bashes

7,171 missed bashes

3,023 successful kicks

3,205 missed kicks

This also shows bashes land 70% of the time. 20,178 x 0.7 = 14,124.6, which is close to 13,950, the total number of bash attempts.

In this case, each bash has a (2300/6779) x 100 = 34% chance to stun per successful bash.

This means the total bash chance is 34 x 0.7 = 24% chance to be stunned per bash/kick attempt.

TLDR

When the mob is more than 10 levels below your character, you have a 5% chance to be stunned per bash/kick attempt.

When the mob is 0-3 levels lower or 1-2 levels higher than your character, you have a 24% chance to be stunned per bash/kick attempt.

The average of the two is around 15%, so that is probably the chance to be stunned roughly speaking when fighting a mob somewhere around 5-8 levels below yourself.
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