Tunare agreement makes like a tree and leafs

[Dillusional]

Hey Francois, much respect. Obviously I'm not involved in decision making in any way or even on the radar of the people who are, but I'd like to express my own biased point of view.

The Situation:
Guild A has 10 neckbeards
Guild B has 90 neckbeards.

The question:

Why should Guild B settle for an agreement that nets them 50% of the pixels available when they can leverage their numbers?


Thoughts:

If a meta is forced upon guild B that doesn't reward zerg, then obviously it has to adapt and get lean. But Velious in general, with its large number of raid targets with 16 hour windows, rewards the zerg strategy if your goal is to kill the most raid targets each week (though not necessarily net the most pixels per player). In an agreement where Guild A gets 10% of the loot , they aren't losing. Each player is getting the same amount of loot proportionally...... and if Tunare only happens to be in window during peak hours 20-30% of the time (obviously making these numbers up)..... things seem to work out just fine.....

[Francois]

Originally Posted by tylercanuck [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not really. He just admitted his intention to snipe Tunare.

I assume that makes AM's successful Doze snipe all the more satisfying.

Doze happened before PoGrowth. At that point I was foolishly operating under the assumption that AM wouldn't do that because of

As usual, we encourage guilds to work together on raid target selections. Leapfrogging, while technically not against the rules, is still an asshole move.

But you're right, i'm not always rational.

[Klem]

if your going to fte a mob... you should start clearing asap. dont wait for handouts, aint nothing classic about it. Start the moment you get fte on any mob. quit crying.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Klem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if your going to fte a mob... you should start clearing asap. dont wait for handouts, aint nothing classic about it. Start the moment you get fte on any mob. quit crying.

The point is that the relevant guilds made an agreement. If clears must start immediately, PoG will turn into fear and no one will ever kill Tunare again.

[Francois]

Originally Posted by Dillusional [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey Francois, much respect.

Love you too buddy. Was just watching one of our old Vulak videos and saw your name pop up. Those were lovely times.

Originally Posted by Dillusional [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Situation:
Guild A has 10 neckbeards
Guild B has 90 neckbeards.

The question:

Why should Guild B settle for an agreement that nets them 50% of the pixels available when they can leverage their numbers?

AG & Core have been doing Tunare together recently. Combined our numbers aren't lower than AMs. I don't know how many people PS & friends have on their clears, but I'd imagine it's a large number as well.

So a more accurate representation of our current situation would be...

Guild A: 100 neckbeards
Guild B: 100 neckbeards
Guild C: 100 neckbeards

So if you would like to distribute loot evenly, then a 3 guild (or team-up) system wouldn't be a problem. When one guild believes they deserve more than the others the system starts to fall apart. I understand that AM thinks they deserve more than the other guilds, they have enjoyed that position for many months now.

I personally would like a system that allows smaller guilds to give the zone a shot. To me, PoGrowth is one of the few places left on P99 where you can actually hang out with your entire guild and face PvE content.

Originally Posted by Dillusional [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If a meta is forced upon guild B that doesn't reward zerg, then obviously it has to adapt and get lean.

I would love this. I think other guilds might have more fun when content isn't trivialized by throwing numbers at it.

I don't fault AM for growing so big. They keep recruitment open to prevent apps from going to the competition and they don't have to rely so heavily on a small group of people to make plays.

[Oleris]

I just think there was a mix up on the agreement. Everyone in the guild thought it was you had 12 hours to kill tunare once you get the FTE. This seemed reasonable as sometimes it took 9-10 hours to do a clear.

All of a sudden it turned into 12 hours to START clearing and 12 hours after that to kill Tunare.

[jpetrick]

Originally Posted by Oleris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just think there was a mix up on the agreement. Everyone in the guild thought it was you had 12 hours to kill tunare once you get the FTE. This seemed reasonable as sometimes it took 9-10 hours to do a clear.

All of a sudden it turned into 12 hours to START clearing and 12 hours after that to kill Tunare.

No it was always 12 hours to start. Honestly the Tunare agreement was a fair one. My only change was to move the starting point to inside growth. I don't agree with how Detoxx handled it. Should have just told the peanut gallery to get on a bard if they want Tunare.

[Francois]

Originally Posted by Oleris [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just think there was a mix up on the agreement. Everyone in the guild thought it was you had 12 hours to kill tunare once you get the FTE. This seemed reasonable as sometimes it took 9-10 hours to do a clear.

All of a sudden it turned into 12 hours to START clearing and 12 hours after that to kill Tunare.

Detoxx (the leader of AM) was the one who posted the agreement. We also talked several times about the intent of the 12 hours.

It was to make sure that PoGrowth didn't devolve into people having to start clears in the middle of the night.

Here is the original agreement

Tunare Agreement:

Tunare cannot be killed by the same guild 2 spawns in a row. If you kill her by yourself, you must skip her the next week. If killed by more than 1 guild (this means the Clear and/or the kill are done by multiple guilds) any and all guilds are locked out for the next week.

In the event of an earthquake, the guild(s) that were locked out from killing her persists.

There is a time limit of 12 hours to START the clear from when she spawns. If a clear has not begun in 12 hours, she becomes FFA.

We will test this out for a few weeks and see how it works. Any issues with it can be brought up here

Tunare FTE Agreement: Tunare will be a foot race on spawn, with the first to get Tunare yellow text "winning" the rights to the clear. Racers must start outside PoG, no COTHing. If she's not dead 12 hours after the initial FTE she goes FFA. The back-to-back agreement above applies to the guild(s) that win the initial FTE.

Here is the updated agreement which was done to remove some ambiguity surrounding the 12 hours.

Tunare cannot be killed by the same guild 2 spawns in a row. If you kill her by yourself, you must skip her the next week. If killed by more than 1 guild (this means the Clear and/or the kill are done by multiple guilds) any and all guilds are locked out for the next week.

In the event of an earthquake, the guild(s) that were locked out from killing her persists.

There is a time limit of 12 hours to start the clear from when she spawns. If a clear has not begun in 12 hours, she becomes FFA.

Tunare will be a foot race on spawn, with the first to get Tunare yellow text "winning" the rights to the clear. Racers must start outside PoG, no COTHing. The back-to-back agreement above applies to the guild(s) that win the initial FTE.

We will test this out for a few weeks and see how it works. Any issues with it can be brought up here

[Castigate]

Originally Posted by FatherSioux [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Francois always comes off as the reasonable actor in these discussions. Maybe he’s baboozling us all.

While I agree that in general I've always liked Franswa's posts and seen him as a reasonable person on the forums, and he's probably right on some of his points and the average AM member didn't really know about it, he just admitted to his willingness to steal 9 hours of work from any guild, and on top of that use it as a negotiation tactic, to effectively hold a gun to his opponents head and force his way.

You may have missed that part but that is exactly what happened yesterday, and he had 100+ people from Core/BG/AG willing to go along with it. Had the roles been reversed I know that I would not only have not taken part, but also started planning my guildremove.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by Francois [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Detoxx (the leader of AM) was the one who posted the agreement. We also talked several times about the intent of the 12 hours.

It was to make sure that PoGrowth didn't devolve into people having to start clears in the middle of the night.

Here is the original agreement



Here is the updated agreement which was done to remove some ambiguity surrounding the 12 hours.

You know, if every player made agreement regarding raid targets was posted on the forums it might result in some clarity rather than confusion on what is agreed upon.