Spells: Pacify duration incorrect for timeline

[Duik]

The mobs were just averting their eyes im sure.

[Telin]

Pacify and other lull spells in our era should have unique resist modifiers that scale with the mob's level. These modifiers are currently not implemented on P99, which affects the intended usefulness of these spells.

The current version behaves more like the Luclin/PoP era, where the duration was reduced to 42 seconds. However, in our era, the duration should technically extend up to 7 minutes. As a compromise, until the resist calculations are corrected to match the classic mechanics, I will set the max duration to half of the original—3.5 minutes.

[darkmaster_tape]

Based on your post, it sounds like the minimum duration is 2 minutes and the maximum duration is 7 minutes. If that is the case, would a more sensible compromise not be the difference between the minimum and the maximum (4.5 minutes)?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Telin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pacify and other lull spells in our era should have unique resist modifiers that scale with the mob's level. These modifiers are currently not implemented on P99, which affects the intended usefulness of these spells.

The lulls are already increasingly unreliable the closer to your level the mobs are. Are these unique resists modifiers known and are they an added resist layer or they're just the base values that use a different scale?

Mobs level 51+ are notorious dangerous to lull, to the point enchanters figured different ways to deal with high level packed mobs. Will the implementation further cement the dangers of lulling at higher levels or it is going to make things more difficult across the board?

Even as a 3.5mins duration, pacify is currently not worth casting over calm right now in my opinion.

[Ropethunder]

Does anyone have any anecdotal evidence as it pertains to resists in the lull line pre and post expansions (Kunark/Velious).

I am curious to know how people, who had high level enchanters, recall how viable lull was for splitting level 50+ mobs in classic era and expansions, or if that was simply no longer viable at that point.

Please note that this question has nothing to do with partial resists or crit resists as it pertains to aggro, but rather how reliable the spell was as a high level enchanter targeting these high level mobs in pre-Luclin.

[Goregasmic]

Like I said before, reliability of charm hangs a lot on charisma. I remember the effects of charisma being known back then but I don't remember chanters going all out charisma like we do here. And if charm/lull was known (or perceived) to be broken, did people really get to 255cha just for mez? Sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy.

This got me really curious so I figured I'd go check the allakhazam comments before 2002 on iconic charisma enchanter items to see if people had anything to say about this topic.

Gypsy medallion:

*I* would wear the metal with 9cha... [over 7int 7str neck] then I could have options to switch another item for int... Mainly I go with the item that has the biggest bonous, counting int and cha the same... but cha items are easier to get, so I mainly have +cha itmes.

40 Enchanter (201cha ~134int)

counting int and cha the same

In direct reply:

Man, you must run out of mana fast. At level 40 you only have 134 intelligence? I'm quite honestly surprised. If you value the two at equal importance, you should balance the two, not go with the one item with the better stat on one piece, I.E. you should have 175int/175cha or whatever it equates to being (not neccesarily even like that, just relatively close.)

In direct reply:

thats not why bards and enchanters max their charisma folks. its for the charm mez work we do. Mana is second to this as we can use verants mobs to work for us. I would call 170 charisma or higher good for most work.

170 huh? Seen other posts of people wondering if the cha cap is 120, 170, 180 or 220 so it is possible people believed they capped lower than the actual cap.

dint know about you, but when i sell, i put on my cha stuff, and when i am not...i wear my int stuff, not hard..
*sigh*i keep forgetting that my Forsaken Pariah mask is -25 cha..you know how many times i forget to take it off?

This guy must think charm/lull is garbage.


Inlaid jade hoop:

The HP/Mana are golden by the time you get this, as most or all Int-Casters will have 200 Int or more easily at this point, and more CHA is always nice for an enchie as well.

Implying cha is a secondary concern.

As a 57 chanter, this would quickly be slapped on my ears to replace my gold black sapphire earrings. 2 ac, 10 more hp, and 3 cha to boot.Quite nice for enchanters with 200 int, as every bit of hp and ac helps when we get aggro(and we do), and mana to boot

How many 57 chanters with 255 cha and 200int in 2001?

Insidious halo:

ooo 20 charisma extra is very nice! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Would gladly replace my present platinum tiara for this golden nugget [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Extra? Platinum tiara? No siryn hair hood or CoKTranix?

Under crown of king tranix a bunch of people are saying its great for bard/chanters so at least there's that.

Earring of blazing energy:

As for the earring, it's nice. Better than a batskull at this level, assuming your over your 187 intel.

Batskull? Especially at 46+?

Oppaline earring:

Great for enchanters i have a 26 enchanter he wears these the cha is great +5...i reccomend for enchanters im 26 and havent found anything better if you find any plz post

This guy got it.

In direct reply:

personally, i think it would be better for an enchanter to have those +3 int earrings (you know, the ones from the easy quest in the qeynos catacombs) on and make yourself pairs of electrum star ruby rings (+5dex +7cha) and gold cats eye bracelets (+7cha).

If he values cha on rings/bracers I'm not sure why he values +int earrings more? Balance maybe?


That's the items that came to mind. I could dig more but it seems pretty clear back then cha was not a top priority, if not just an afterthought for a lot of chanters. It also seemed clear to me that no one really knew what the cap was and aimed for arbitrary numbers, usually much lower than the actual caps.

This reinforces my belief that low charisma values tainted the perception of the effectiveness of charm/lulls on live back then. Unless you can find an enchanter that will be like "I had ~255cha back then and charmed/lulled in seb/velks/charasis and here's how it went", I really don't feel testimonies about the effectiveness of lull/charm are reliable if no charisma value is provided. That being said, most people recognize that charisma is good for lull/mez/charm so I feel like lull/charm was not as useless back then as some claim or it would be a non factor.

[zelld52]

Charisma has a near non effect on charm on p99. I have experienced as both Necro with 25 charisma and enchanter with 255 charisma; both toons had same success on Landing charm and charm duration on same mobs lat same player level. (Necro charm rarely ever got resisted unless I tried to charm a higher level than appropriate)

The difference was the critucal resists on pacify. Necro got so many more crit resists than enchanter did over the course of playing. (Necro had crit on resist like 30% of the time compared to less than 10% on enchanter)

[Jimjam]

Necro doesn’t have a charisma check, so surely it is expected to perform similar to an enchanter which passes theirs at the best possible rate?

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Charisma has a near non effect on charm on p99. I have experienced as both Necro with 25 charisma and enchanter with 255 charisma; both toons had same success on Landing charm and charm duration on same mobs lat same player level. (Necro charm rarely ever got resisted unless I tried to charm a higher level than appropriate)

The difference was the critucal resists on pacify. Necro got so many more crit resists than enchanter did over the course of playing. (Necro had crit on resist like 30% of the time compared to less than 10% on enchanter)

We don't know how the charm on a necro/druid works so we can't really draw any parallels. All we know is they don't seem to have a cha check while the chanter one does have one.

If you want to know the effects of cha on chanter charm you'd have to run the same test with no cha gear and see how it goes. I leveled a fresh chanter in 2024 on p99 with no twink gear and no money and I saw a significant difference going from like 120cha to 190ish cha in my 30s-40s. Then again it could partially be attributed to better tash spells and a widening level gap with mobs. Also, you have to keep in mind there's a soft cap at 200 so the last 55 points won't matter nearly as much.

That being said, even if cha had no impact on charm, I lull/mez so much I'd still run a high amount.

[jmorden]

CHA has big implications on crit fails currently and it's very noticeable