Overpopulated

[TripSin]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh I think a fair number played Classic (myself included), I just highly doubt that more than a very very select few ever made it to level 50 or ever heard of manastone or guise during the classic timeline. Out of those who did it's even fewer who can actually remember what the game was like back then in terms of population.

I was being facetious. I was assuming that would be obvious. I actually think the vast majority of people here have played classic. And I would also imagine that the vast majority of people who are here playing P99 today in 2020 probably played it pretty heavily/seriously back when it first came out.

I imagine that problems arise here because of a number of possible factors: 1) The "classic" experience was probably different for each person to a degree - different servers for example might've provided different experiences for different people. 2) People have rose-colored nostalgia glasses on that's causing them to remember aspects of classic EverQuest differently from how it actually was. 3) People don't realize or are underappreciating how a classic experience can't be possible given that it's 2020 (i.e. that everyone playing now has a ton of knowledge about the game, nothing is novel anymore, we have way more software and better hardware to help play the game more efficiently, etc. etc.). 4) Sometimes people are just plain ignorant and maybe just aren't aware of things like the fact that 1200+++ population servers was a norm in classic EverQuest (like for me, I came in right before Kunark was released so there was more area for people to be spread out over).

[Jimjam]

I was a massive newb in 2000. No idea what I was doing. Didn’t hit 50 until at least pop I suppose. Blue was my chance to taste content I missed out on first time around (though I never got round to / immersed enough for vp or ST keying).

For green i’m trying to emulate my 1999 decisions. Farming useless tradeskill items to make my own gear instead of xping. Running around the world seeing what there is to see. Doing quests with pointless rewards.

[Zephire]

Originally Posted by PabloEdvardo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look at the zones. 50+ in SK. 30+ in UGuk. The list goes on.

There was no single classic server in existence back in live, with 1000+ active players who played the game the way we do on p99.

There is a massive difference between a ton of social players / players discovering content for the first time, and a ton of min/max players who have 50s and are lvling alts.

You're not wrong.

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by TripSin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nothing is novel anymore, we have way more software and better hardware to help play the game more efficiently, etc. etc.)

And this is one reason why I think there can never be another game like original Everquest made again. It was literally a product of its time.

There were secrets in EQ that wasnt well known until years after the fact. Today though, if you had a game trying to be like that it wouldn't work, for starters any secret would find its way onto youtube to strike while the iron is hot and to get that sweet ad money. Some doofy streamer would be munching chips into the mic and spilling all the secrets.

Part of original EQs charm is we didn't have any of that, you went searching for clues on webpages and sometimes the information was good and other times it wasn't.

We also couldn't watch another player do something in a stream, or to "stream snipe". You could read someones thoughts/guide and do you best to play. You still had to find out for yourself and play the game.

Heck, there are games today I would like to have played but will never buy just because I can find out all the good stuff without buying it and playing.... why buy the Cow when you can the Milk for free?

Games are entertainment like a TV today.. even worse would be a MMORPG trying to be like EQ but also trying to be entertaining to a streamer audience. A very hard pass for me.

*Note: Some quests in original EQ make me scratch my head when I read the wiki, honestly how the heck did anyone figure those out. I bet a developer gave someone hints but who knows.

[Zephire]

Originally Posted by azxten [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is your fault for not forming a group and claiming the lookout room. People on P99 are scared cucks who won't dare claim a camp according to rules lest someone get mad at them.

Pissing people off is what made EQ fun. Training, telling newbs to /consent you, kill stealing with memory blur, all of it. Not doing it yourself but that it was in the game. It is what drove social behaviour, defined guild character, etc.

Rules are what is wrong with P99. No GM was going to save you in classic EQ because you petitioned someone for KSing.

Even on P99 where the rules DO allow people to split "camps" and force multi group exp people just cry to the devs to add multiple servers so everyone can be happy grouping their favourite instance.

Ultimately I think all amateur emulator projects are doomed to do the same. They want players to be "happy" because it means less bullshit they have to deal with in terms of people crying. Classic EverQuest had the notorious "The Vision" meme because so many people cried all the time that it was too hard, this should be that one, it's too slow, blah blah blah.

Brad had the The Vision to torment people exactly how they needed to be tormented. He is the Architect of the Matrix. People aren't happy unless they're miserable as well. He found out that people want the most punishing environment to experience the highs of overcoming it.

tldr:

In classic EQ to level the fastest meant you had the best social strategy. Limited mobs and other resources including game knowledge meant playing well socially had real value. In P99 EQ to level the fastest simply means finding the highest ZEM camp, claiming it, and putting in the most hours there. In true classic something like the HHK goblin/nobles camps would be utterly unusable due to training, kill stealing, and other efficiency killers. This happened in a minor way on P99 but not to the same extent. That is what made EQ fun when leveling. The challenge of gaming this system and how to interact with the other players to try to avoid killing efficiency.

I don't know what server you played on... but on Brell, which opened in July 99 GMs came down hard on the kind of douchery you describe. We had one guy that was so bad about KS'ing mobs that he got banned.. but he lived on for a couple years after that via jokes and stories people told about his exploits. The same held true on Luclin, which I rolled a new toon on to group with RL friends.

So again, not sure what server you played on but on both the servers I played on the GM's didn't screw around with toxic players.

[Zephire]

Originally Posted by sajbert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh I think a fair number played Classic (myself included), I just highly doubt that more than a very very select few ever made it to level 50 or ever heard of manastone or guise during the classic timeline. Out of those who did it's even fewer who can actually remember what the game was like back then in terms of population.

I second that. If memory serves, Verant removed server pop numbers a few months before Kunark released. I never saw any server over 1500 prior to that

when I started in July 99 it was the first week Brell went up.. there were 300 people on it when I rolled my ranger. Never saw it over 1100

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Zephire [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I second that. If memory serves, Verant removed server pop numbers a few months before Kunark released. I never saw any server over 1500 prior to that

when I started in July 99 it was the first week Brell went up.. there were 300 people on it when I rolled my ranger. Never saw it over 1100

I have a distinct memory of Bristlebanes server number in the early afternoon being around 300 and it would pickup later into the evening/night then die back off closer to midnight (working adults). I want to say it would creep close to 7-800 at peak evening and closer to 1k on the weekends. Camps were packed during the busy hours.

[Zephire]

Originally Posted by Mblake81 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have a distinct memory of Bristlebanes server number in the early afternoon being around 300 and it would pickup later into the evening/night then die back off closer to midnight (working adults). I want to say it would creep close to 7-800 at peak evening and closer to 1k on the weekends.

Sounds about right

[Mblake81]

Originally Posted by Zephire [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds about right

The guy who got me into computers/EQ was having a conversation with me about it, online computer games were all new to me and I had just come from Playstation 1. The most people I ever "gamed" with was 4-5 other guys during a birthday party or something.

I remember him asking how many were on the day before, I told him around 300. I remember him smiling and saying something like "yeah, that's 300 other people all playing at the same time and the world goes even if you are not playing"

Next level stuff at the time. Edit: Correction, it was like 4-5 levels past next level. Left an impression that has lasted 20 years.

[Joeyco1989]

Never knew the server pop on 7th Hammer, but during Kunark days, EC had over 300+ toons. Green tops out at like 170 in EC. Just one zone and different times/types of player, but an observation.