Quote:
Originally Posted by bubur
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starkind i owe you an apology
the truth is yes, you could find a progressive community of practice and fulfill the obligations of islam and become a muslim and be accepted. i hope you can understand my joke was really a reflection on two things a) a quip at your expense yes, and reading back on it, looks like legit gatekeeping of the style that occurs only in anonymous chatrooms, and i think came off much ruder than i anticipated. really a reflection of my own ignorance at the time of writing and wanting a cheap laugh, but also b) the state of trans rights in predominantly islamic communities (at least the ones i've lived in)
it would not be an easy thing for you to do. i wont talk about any other country except the one ive spent the most of my time in, indonesia, where waria culture is hard to miss, but it would be a lie to tell you, yes you can just fit in and no one will harass or bother you. you could uncomfortably hide it, sure, but say you dared to be yourself and reach out to relate emotionally with others, it would be an uphill battle where you'd face constant quizzing and proving yourself and not uncommonly would you be asked to simply 'change' and be a fundamentally a different person. it could be a very aggravating and wholly non-spiritual experience at times, again, depending on if you are able to find a tolerant community. and outside of the practice, there are dominant political parties trying to make your identity a crime. so yes, while possible, it would not be a walk in the park. more respect to you if you were to navigate it. it is simply a country that is has a very different history, and could be considered as living in a different, older era especially in the northwest
all that said, frankly, this quizzing and proving happens to just about everyone in the community, and it's very hard to be perfect for every relative, older person, people you respect. i dont think we're alone in that
so I hope you can accept my apology. in the scheme of things, i do not, nor does anyone else have any ability to outright stop you from being yourself and doing the things you want to do, but it would be dishonest to say that some people wont try... so even if this was all just a joke on a joke, i apologize if i made you feel bad.. and thx kaveh for calling me out so i could reflect on it
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Thank you. No offense was taken. I figure this is an old school place on the web to sorta freely express ourselves. I chastise some people in a playful way if I can and you didn't really do anything to earn my reproach. I know you well enough. And I believe you know me well enough otherwise you wouldn't have.
There are a lot of parts of Islam I admire. Your honesty is much better than painting a false picture.
I get some of that here. I'm facing the prospect of aging and for awhile that puts me in a place where people my age are expected to look a certain way I'm sure right now it's certainly easier for me. Although I'm pretty sure that I could not truly fulfill all my obligations or be a truly good Muslim. That doesn't mean that I don't admire the wisdom that good Muslim bring to the world.
All that said I do not really want to change people. Push a progressive agenda. I joke a lot about communism, I'm rather libertarian with traditional Christian ideals in practice. In life. When I invisibly blend in and be a good person and go with the flow. Earn my keep. Work hard. Do well by others. I am happy. Find true peace. I don't believe many western people have the upbringing or will to move to a Muslim country and just blend in. And go with the flow. No one I know is perfect. So your assertion is fair for most westerners.
I live near a city with a lot of Muslims. And a mosque. So I interact with them semi regularly. That day I had ordered a bagel from a woman in a hijab and I was musing. Because that shop I go to, is owned by an old middle eastern man for many decades and is one of the only few good shops left in an area where places like target and Walmart are trying to pinch out what is left of the small shops. The few Islamic people I have had the pleasure of knowing are all diligent and a cut above the many secular and "lost" youngins who have no faith. It's probably because they are in essence religious and in a sense good people who commit to higher ideals. Not to say there aren't people who try to cheat and steal and do ill and malice who are religious, the Muslim community around here is strong and those people leave elsewhere. The bad religious folks are few. Even among the Christians, there's just so many more of us and basically anyone can say we are Christian even if they have satanic temples at home. Honestly I don't believe Muslim families are that tolerant of that sorta thing.
And maybe to a point that is a good thing.
Again. Thanks )
04-23-2022, 09:01 AM
Nice one.
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