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Planar Protector
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,196
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Most of the comments below were made roughly a year outside of the classic timeline, but were either in reference to the spell before its nerf (all disease-based spells) or were made before the nerf took place, though there is some question as to whether the nerf was specifically undone at some point to appease the community, even though other spells were added to generate aggro.
The earliest mentions of the nerf can be found in late 2002, with it becoming common knowledge after a post made by Absor arguing against reverting the spell to its previous state.
https://web.archive.org/web/20020313...99679685192181
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Possible Solution to SK woes? By: Anonymous
Posted @ Thu, Aug 2nd 8:00 PM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
The most common complaint I hear from high lvl Sk's is that we don't have a place in high lvl groups and raids. I have a solution.
At lvl 9 we get a nifty little spell called Disease cloud. It's ability is useful when we first get it, but what keeps it in our spell slots is it's taunting ability. I propose that we get an upgrade, with exponentially greater hate. This would make us the undisputed kings of taunting, and earn us a spot in some groups.
Would this be unbalancing? No. We are already very good at taunting, this would just give us the edge in this department. Besides, only in group situations would an Sk want to use this spell, and we have to survive once the mob turns on us. Would this make us more useful in high end groups and raids? Absolutly! We can help give the tanks a breather in an emergency, and can protect our casters. Is this out of line with our character? Not really. We are supposed to be the most loathed and mistrusted class in Norrath, why not make us the masters of generating hate?
What do you guys think? I already passed this idea along to the developers board, lets see where it goes.
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RE: Possible Solution to SK woes? Reply... By: DaClifster,
5 posts
Posted @ Fri, Aug 3rd 6:50 PM 2001 Score: Decent[3.00]
Not necessary, if your a high level SK and know how to play your character well, then you would know that out taunting any other class is already easily done. High level SKs have:
Snare series
Dot series
Debuff series
Lifetap series
and then there's good old Disease Cloud (green fart as I call it) to throw more salt in the wound.
If you are using these correctly, then your post would read something like... what am I doing wrong.. the mobs wont get off of me and kill me first. At lvl 54 I can take aggro from a lvl 60 Cleric, Warrior and Wizard.. I'd rethink what your use in battle.. you should be using different spells for group combat than you would be for soloing.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020818...99975148094673
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RE: Responce By: Anonymous
Posted @ Thu, Sep 6th 12:44 AM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
All I know is i've saved many group members with two things Harm Touch and Disease Cloud. Harm Touch when a groupie is gonna die if theres no other way. And Disease Cloud to get things off of over zealous wizzys who like to pull while people are medding healing. These may not work in higker levels but they work great up until at least leavel 24.
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RE: Responce Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Mon, Sep 10th 11:02 AM 2001 Score: Decent[3.33]
If you are looking for Taunting, there is nothing better than a SK. Some of you may laugh, but the above post hits on one of hte most useful spells in the game for a sk, the little old level 1 necro spell, disease cloud. This is by far, the best taunt in the game. If you are in a group, beating on a mob, and want to keep aggro, just keep dropping disease clouds on them in between swings. It will cast between swings, so no loss there, and only costs a very very very minimal amount of mana. This will keep a mob off all but the most zelous overcasters.
Twotone Twoeyes 43 Ogre Holy Knight of Rallos Zek
Head Bouncer of Soulbonded
Drinal Server
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https://web.archive.org/web/20040916...11&num=4&page=
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The Death of Disease Cloud
Posted @ Mon, May 13th 12:34 PM2002 | IP: Logged | Reply... Reply to this | User's Journal | Email User
By: Sir Parttime
Guru
145 posts
Score: Excellent [5.00]
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I haven't seen it mentioned on this board, so I thought I would bring it up for discussion. It is a complicated issue, so please forgive me if I get a few of the details wrong. However, here is the heart of the issue.
Recently, many spells that reduced speed were changed to be "disease" based. On the surface, this was good idea, especially since cure disease suddenly became available (at level 22 I think) to we Shadowknights. Meaning we could get rid of a spell that slowed us down without have to wait out the duration of the spell.
However, shamans, who have a responsiblity to slow down MOBs suddenly found themselves getting the holy crumbs kicked out of them everytime they cast a "slow" spell. It seemed that Mobs really hate disease counters. The developers at Verant, figuring that the death of a shaman, everytime they cast slow, was a bad thing, decided to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the amount of aggro a disease counter generates. Yahhhhhh..the shammies live to slow another day, but here comes the downside to this little story.
Shadowknights, who have played in a group, know that the very best spell for taunting an angery Mob off a magic user is a 9th level spell called Disease Cloud. It is quick...it has low mana usage...it did not take up a buff slot and it is very very effective in taunting. The only downside was the fact that it was a DoT, so mezzing a Mob after casting Disease cloud on it was not possible. However, as the name implies, it is disease based and now after the series of changes previously spoken of...it is completely ineffective.
There are other spells that will do the job, but most are either difficult to land (darkness), have a long casting time, are mana intensive, use a buff slot that is overridden by an other common buff or are a combination of those. (I'm using Heart Flutter as a substitute at the moment.)
I have never complained (until now) about our role in the EQ world. We are Shadowknights and we do not whine. We are not the best tanks, damage dealers or pullers. We do all those things well, but not as well as some other classes. We where, until this nerf, the best class at getting and keeping aggro. We can still do the job pretty well, but with the neutering of this one spell that job has become much harder.
I guess who I really feel for is that 18th level wisard who groups with a 20th level Shadowknight thinking that the crocs in Oasis will be thinking about the Knight and not him. Those days are over, unless someone in development figures out that we need a spell that again has the characterists of this very useful spell.
Will I stop playing my SK over this? I doubt it. But it will make me a lot more nervous everytime a wisard or cleric casts a spell.
Good luck and good hunting in the land of Norrath.
----------------------------
Shrikke - Knight of Fear
Bristlebane
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Posted @ Wed, May 15th 5:15 PM2002 | IP: Logged | Reply... Reply to this
By: lunaticfringesk
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389 posts
Score: Decent [2.75]
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Based on my personal experience, I can confirm that Disease Cloud ("DC") has lost QUITE a bit of agro capability, which basically SOOKS.
I found myself un-memming it in SEBILIS, which, to be honest, does not make me happy. I found that the "pre"-DC is too quick & too cheap to not mem IF agro is something that you want to obtain. Now, it is next to worthless--SHAME ON VERANT.
All I can do is shake my head. With the exception of certain casters (whether sitting or casting a bomb, etc), SKs were the best agro characters bar noone (I found that PLDs could come close, but definitely not as good). Im not so sure about that claim anymore. I constantly find myself casting everything I have at the MOB (Heart Flutter, Shadow Vortex, darkness spell) just to get/maintain agro and NONE of those are even in the ballpark of DC is terms of casting time & mana.
Further, I frequently find myself LOSING agro, something that has NEVER (materially) happened to me before....
At the end of the day, SKs have been WEAKENED...
=(
Lunatic
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Posted @ Mon, Jul 15th 5:36 PM2002 | IP: Logged | Reply... Reply to this | User's Journal
By: maladildarkheart
120 posts
Score: Decent [2.79]
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lol bro i feel your pain. i to even to this feel very nervious whenever a wizzy or cleric cast.
even though at lvl 51 now i still use dease cloud when mana is low but the spell doen't work like it us too anymore this has me worried to
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https://web.archive.org/web/20040126...&threadid=4498
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Bloodravenger
knows that Warriors are superior
Post #6
Registered: Nov 2003
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Heh on demand aggro would be like Diesiese Cloud for Sk's back in the day when no matter where the mob was at, an Sk could cast that and mob would go running to him.
Pallies just use stun, then walk up and commence Melee attack, It does rather well on Inc since hate list is not a mess at the time, but clearly person fitting a mob for a length will stop him from being able to rip off the mob from him and pally would be forced to move and restun and taunt to get aggro...
Same is with CD and fear, but fear has chance to fear the mob..
-------
If stun fails to land it sometimes can not take aggro hold whereas CD does still gain aggro when resisted. Some times it will seem as CD will not get aggro hold on resist or even if not resisted this only means puller meleed mob a tad and i have to move to mob to get better aggro off.
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Lord Vedar
Member
Registered: Apr 2002
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Posts: 52
Damn I was wondering why DC was not taunting as it used to. I was in HS and chain casting DC with little effect. THIS IS WAY MESSED UP. DC was FAST Low Mana and HUGE taunt, now it may look like we need to cast slower more mana eatting spells.
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Old Post 05-10-2002 12:47 PM
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https://web.archive.org/web/20051112...hp/t-9086.html
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Dalantia
12-09-2002, 02:53 AM
How does a younger SK pull taunt?
The people I generally group with as Aurie are a 17 Monk, 19 Druid, and her. I can't keep aggro off the monk without her FDing. Aurie has been shown to take damage better than Kal, so how do I avoid this?
My primary ideas were to cast Disease Cloud and Darkness right away, followed by ATK debuffs (Yes, my pansy L9 and 15 spells [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]), then just firing away with Lifetap, punching Bash and Taunt. For weaponry, I have a Crystallized Blade, a MoSS, and a Stalagterror spear (Fear those of us who are too stubborn to sit in the bazaar or vendor things..). I can get a Throneblade Yak off of another character for her, but that doesn't get useful until 20. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Suggestions, comments, or am I going to be shot as a paladin posting on a shadowknight board? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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synnoira
12-09-2002, 08:15 AM
ATK taps/debuffs have next to no taunt value. Lifetaps are low value too. Disease Cloud had it's aggro castrated ages ago. Stick to Clinging Darkness. Use it early and repeat a couple of times as necessary.
It sounds like you are using an awful lot of mana per fight, cast the ATK tap once only when it fades, cast lifetaps only when you're getting into the bottom end of the red bar and the cleric is low.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20031121...m=1208&start=0
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This item is just a bad bad idea Reply...
Posted @ Wed, Apr 17th 7:46 AM 2002
By: Relios
Scholar
158 posts
Score: Default [2.00]
Like the subject says. As an SK, disease cloud is one of the bread and butter spells that I use to hold aggro OFF of the healers. It works much better than the Taunt skill in alot of cases. While I suppose that there is a time and a place for anything and everything, I just can't think of a good time for the healer to be casting Disease Cloud. Ever. It is always cool to have items with novel effects like this one, it's just not cool to actually use them. Unless you want to die.
Merrilon Bladesinger
65 Bard - Druzzil
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RE: This item is just a bad bad idea Reply...
Posted @ Sun, Jun 30th 6:07 PM 2002
By: Relios
Scholar
158 posts
Score: Default [2.00]
Did you even read the title and content of my message? I didn't say it was a bad item, I said it was a bad IDEA. I went on further to express that the item itself is cool, but using it in most every case in a group ISN'T cool, since dead clerics can't heal tanks very well.
I also said that I have personal liking for unique "toy" items like this and most other cleric neck items like it. So no, I'm not fearful, close-minded, stats-blinded or dull. Additionally, there was a definite under-tone of sarcasm to the whole post, which was mostly just a joke post meant to make people (especially newbies) think a bit. If you didn't catch it, YOU may be the dull one. Sorry.
BTW, Disease Cloud now pretty much sucks as an aggro tool. When they made changes slow spells awhile back, they tinkered around with how disease based effects aggro mobs. End result? Disease Cloud is no longer the bread and butter taunting spell it once was. We SKs of the world cringed, but life goes on. But it also means that it is safer to use now for people besides SKs, but it's still not a real good idea. Not for the faint of heart at least. Anyway, have fun you evil Clerics.
Also BTW, using it as a Bertox Blessing is a really neat idea. Good job!
Merrilon Bladesinger
65 Bard - Druzzil
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1 Replies
RE: This item is just a bad bad idea Reply...
Posted @ Mon, Jul 8th 11:30 AM 2002
By: Darknyss
Scholar
426 posts
Score: Default [2.00]
sorry buddy, but they took the disease aggro away from slow spells... as slow drew enough attention as it was... disease cloud is STILL an incredible taunt, and not to mention enchanters can't mezz you if you cast it upon yourself
Darknyss Grimscale
55 Iksar ShadowKnight, weilder of Greenmist
Xorbnastralicus Magusmezzmasticus
35 High Elven Enchanter
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1 Replies
RE: This item is just a bad bad idea Reply...
Posted @ Mon, Jan 6th 7:36 AM 2003
By: The Honorable Relios
Scholar
158 posts
Score: Default [2.10]
Sorry friend, but I guess you didn't pay attention. Disease Cloud WAS nerfed. Hell, Absor even made a post about it on the SK boards when they went NUTS about it. It just doesn't draw aggro like it used to. Hence the addition of the aggro nukes and Voice line.
Merrilon Bladesinger
65 Bard - Druzzil
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https://web.archive.org/web/20051217...php/t-263.html
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Graznoth
03-31-2002, 05:52 AM
Disease Cloud's all you should need, casting it once at the begin of the fight and then just using taunt is generally enough, recast if you lose agro, works like a charm.
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Nephtu
03-31-2002, 12:26 PM
Shadow Vortex is 39, as are Shroud of Hate and Heart flutter, another couple of nice aggro spells. The nice thing about SV/SoH is that they give you a solid demezz spell lineup that doesn't involve a DoT. However from level 9 on through 60, your prime aggro spell in so many situations will be Disease Cloud - the gift that keeps on giving [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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darkmelusine
03-31-2002, 01:26 PM
SoH in my experience isn't a lot of taunt, especially compared to say darkness, disease cloud, vortex. Even SoP is higher taunt I think. Flutter/Asystole cast times are too long to be effective for me.
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Byttorr Ebonknight
03-31-2002, 02:33 PM
The mez-breaking lineup I use is taunt/Shadow Vortex/taunt/Darkness/taunt and then bash or Disease Cloud to actually break the mez. (When time is of the essence, SV/taunt/DC usually does the trick, but it's not 100%) The reason you can throw a Darkness in along the way is that it takes about 5 seconds before the DOT component kicks in.
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Brega
03-31-2002, 10:55 PM
An SK never needs more than Disease Cloud and Vortex Shadow to effectively taunt. You have to be careful with these spells as a matter of fact, and never use them on big mobs that your Warriors are tanking.
Shroud of Pain also works well, but no better than the above two.
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synnoira
04-01-2002, 11:38 AM
scream of pain doesn't have much of a taunt to it that i can see, i experimented a bit after i got it
at level 30 anyways disease cloud followed by clinging darkness is your best combo
at 39 I put shadow vortex in ahead of those two, as people have said it's a big taunt which won't make the mob unmezzable
i find opening with SV followed by DC makes mobs stick to me most of the time
i throw on Shroud of Pain third now at 50 and then clinging darkness fourth, though that's only necessary if i'm dealing with casters who have some aggro management problems
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https://web.archive.org/web/20051102...hp/t-1298.html
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Paynreaver
05-02-2002, 11:39 PM
Its really basic at lvl 18: Fund a mob, pull it. Dont let him kill anyone else in the group. Thats how to be a good shadowknight. Wanna be a GREAT knight? Be willing to DIE, yes DIE for your group. Overpull 10 mobs? Suck up the death and scream at your group to hightail it outa there while you buy them some time. At lvl 23 a warrior did that for my group, i thought he was the greates. We are friends and still group to today.
(Note: Thats just one way to go a little above, theres tons more)
Also, if you need to taunt off a groupmate (taunt meaning get a mob [mob = monster] off a weaker groupmate) use Desease cloud. This gem of a spell REALLY makes the mob angry, so they will attack you. If all else fails, put on a harmtouch too, but only in an emergency because its only available every 90 mins.
Good luck!
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DarkWyld
05-07-2002, 12:18 PM
Scream of Hate is an ATK tap. This does not generate alot of hate from the mob. The AC tap line works wonders, though. So your primary aggro generating spells are:
Disease Cloud
AC Tap (Shadow Vortex, Shroud of Pain)
Darkness line
Flutter line (Heart Flutter, Asystole)
From my experience, these are listed in order of Hate generated from most to least. I think there is a Scream of Pain in the AC tap line as well, but since I was high level when SoL came out, I haven't looked into them. Overall, though, DC is the best aggro management tool we have - fast cast, low cost, and large aggro.
As for getting spells in Luclin, this should be no problem. Shadow Haven is non-KOS to everyone. Getting into Echo is fairly easy, and the merchants are close to the Shadow Haven zone - away from the creatures within.
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Sekhmeth
05-08-2002, 04:40 AM
Casting Disease cloud again will only serve to get you more aggro, it doesnt stack with itself, you just reset the time on the dot.
Oh and your english is very good! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
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https://web.archive.org/web/20040622...ead.php?t=8105
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Old 06-08-2004, 12:37 AM #3
elty
Learning the ways
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 58
the so called "nerf" they did to SK is they made it so that disease and poison counter would not generate a HUGE amount of hate to save the poor slower who get splat by the mob after they slow it. (They add disease counter on slow so it is easier to cure) SK whine and whine and whine because hey cannot use disease cloud (which is a lv 1 spell for god sake) to hold aggro anymore. Anyways at the end SOE just gave SK a whole new line of spell (Aggro multiplier AND instant hate spell) in a week or 2. And look how long it takes to fix the warrior aggro issue?
Ok maybe i exagrate a little bit, but i definitely rememeber at least some SK whine a lot about their lv 1 dot cant hold any aggro. However all the enc is glad that tash is not tashicide anymore.
SK i play with generally use darkness to hold aggro. Rarely I see pally still use lv 9/15 stun tho.
i am not sure why thsi fix is necessary. If you don't want to get aggro are you sure you will still cast the same spell again for the 2nd time if it is immune and you get kileed after the first? I guess ppl learn this very fast. Many spell and proc is good to hold aggro even tho the effect is immuned as the up stair said.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20031024...02163974524105
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RE: The Death of Disease Cloud Reply...
Posted @ Fri, May 17th 8:58 AM 2002
By: Kamlatir, Eater of Souls
Scholar
66 posts
Score: Decent [3.20]
It's not about "changing your tactics a bit" Neptunis. I'm sorry to have to drag this up over and over again but there is no (!) sk spell equivalent to the old Disease Cloud at the moment. One of my greatest advantages as a tank when fighting with my regular group deep in the Hole or Chardok was that I could break a mezzed and slowed mob with the chanter sitting down and I'd still have aggro. I'd do my little "routine" as my group mates called it, Taunt, Shadow Vortex, Disease Cloud. The time consumed in this routine is minimal, next to none. I can taunt and mez break still but to achieve the same effect we are talking double if not triple the time from before. Is this a large issue? Yes, it is.
The two zones I mentioned have a fast spawn rate and minimizing the time every kill takes is important. Imagine yourself fighting to a camp, this is usually a very mana intensive process. Now imagine "doing" a zone, fighting from the entrance of The Hole and down to Kindle/High Scale Kirn with one group, without pausing or medding. Not having a shaman in the group set up the chanter is also responsible for slows. My chanter has C3 and still tells me to taunt so he can sit and med down in Chardok. Maybe this doesn't apply to just sitting at a camp and killing a set number of spawns but if you want to swing down and take out Prince you need to be on the move constantly or back pops will get you. The advantage of having an sk tank was that your group speeds up it's kill rate greatly, due to fast mez breaks and damage dealers not having to be so careful of their aggro, and in my opinion this was somewhat effected by the change of disease aggro.
I don't believe in the word "nerf" since a fix is a fix and obviously intended. However, I do think that this is an unforseen side effect that VI didn't really think of. Life goes on though, I will /feedback this and it will probably still stay the same. There's not much one can do, I feel somewhat entitled to at least come here and give my opinion of why this was bad for the sk class.
As for Torrent of Hate having any taunt value, I think it may be on account of the zone you are in. Different mobs in different zones react differently to spells. I wont say that was the case in Tenebrous since I've never fought there myself but if you thought Torrents gave aggro you should perhaps try with some of the other spells known for their hate creating factor. Try going into CoM and stand in the pull path, no matter what the puller has done to the mob that's incoming (excepting Shadow Vortex) that mob is going to aggro on the very first thing in it's way, not follow the puller to the group. The mobs in Velketors Lab are very insensitive to spells, they simply don't give the aggro they do in Seb. Chanters usually love Velks on account of the low aggro their mezzing and slowing pulls. I think as a rule of thumb you could say that if a low aggro spell like Torrent of Hate is giving you aggro then a spell like Shadow Vortex or Disease Cloud (pre fix patch) will glue the mob to you. I base my no aggro statement on Torrent of Hate on the mobs in Arena. Just like I said, standing in camp I cast Torrent of Hate on incoming mobs that had just been tagged with an arrow or proximity aggroed and they never even looked my way. Shadow Vortex and Disease Cloud had the opposite effect though. From this I deduct that ToH is lower aggro then the two others. Even Shroud of Pain pulled aggro so ToH must be lower aggro then that too. I base it on being able to actually cast the spell on many raids where other Shrouds etc pull immediate aggro if cast early in a fight. Basically, read my other post as to what I think VI is trying to achieve with for instance ToH.
Edited, Fri May 17 08:54:03 2002
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Quote:
RE: The Death of Disease Cloud Reply...
Posted @ Fri, May 17th 9:54 AM 2002
By: Neptunis
Scholar
278 posts
Score: Decent [3.15]
Ok first I said "SHROUD OF PAIN" Not "Torrent of Hate", your're right Torrent of Hate doesn't have a big agro, unless it's stacked with the others, then it seems to have an improved value (or that's just a factor of the number of casts you've done on the MOB).
Now I have fought into the Hole to do the Shaman Quest MOBs with a single group, yes it's tough, yes you have to break for mana sometimes, BUT, my Chanters are always sitting through the fights, when I break mez the MOB has 2 debuffs on it and I'm taunting, the Chanter never gets hit. I NEVER used disease Cloud to help break mez before, Chanter + DoT = BAD, so I have relied on debuffs in Chanter groups for about 15 levels now. I have also fought into Royals in Chardok, held camps in Seb, Chardok, Velks (including Frenze which seems to be the fastest action of any Camp there on my Server) and Main Tanked in the Arena and Reavers in CoM. So YES, I know those camps and zones, and I know how agro differs. But I was giving a REAL example of a post patch success, and no the MOBs in Ten. Mnts. will run past you if not taunted, the Beastlord for our group kept getting in front of me but never gt agro'd on the way past.
Shadow Vortex and Heart Flutter ARE every bit as big taunting spells as Disease Cloud was, they are just slower and more mana. I have been told on Raids prior to this not to use either spell because the Main Tank can't hold agro when I cast them. Either of these spells will bring the instant agro you need to protect a Caster.
I don't know what to account our so very different experience with keeping agro, except that I tried not to use disease cloud all along and found other taunting spells that worked as well or better for me depending on the zone. For example, Heart Flutter in Sireen's Grotto would cause so much agro that I was forced to FD to let the Warrior get agro back, Shadow Vortex in the same zone was much lower agro. In Seb I've found Shadow Vortex to be the superior Taunt. Giants absolutely hate Boil Blood, but inside Kael Arena Darkness seems to be the best taunt. I have even found MOBs that hate lifetaps more than almost anything. But as a rule, once you stack the debuffs on a mezzed MOB the Chanter should be safe, unless he's sitting right next to the MOB when mez breaks.
YES you need more mana to keep agro now, but I still go OOM last in a group.
Neptunis Rex
Neptunis Rex
lvl 62 DE Gravelord
Have Axe, will travel
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Quote:
1 Replies
RE: The Death of Disease Cloud Reply...
Posted @ Fri, May 17th 2:05 PM 2002
By: lunaticfringesk
Scholar
311 posts
Score: Decent [2.75]
At the end of the day, SK taunting has been reduced. It isnt just that Disease Cloud lost some of its taunting ability; Heart Flutter did also. Those are two of the best taunting spells that SKs get, but they have definitely lost some of their umph due to disease counters causing less agro. Im not sure what your thoughts are, but I think that sooks.
Pretty much the sole reason we are casting these spells is for taunt ability (there are rare exceptions, but generally at 50+, you arent casting these for their primary effects) & spending 4 times the mana (Shadown Vortex) for (generally) the same effect basically sooks. Further, the number of spells that cause a ton of agro has just been drastically reduced. =(
I think Verant generally does a decent job of thinking matters through (despite alarming silliness at times), but reducing an SKs ability to taunt is an interesting adjustment to say the least. Did they intentionally do this? Im not sure, but I can say that SKs as a whole are weaker, regardless of whether you change strategies or not. And in case you haven't noticed, SKs generally arent the 1st class picked when many are forming their "dream" groups....
On an (marginally) unrelated note, DoTs with chanters are perfectly fine---you just have to be careful. I DoT all the time in Sebilis or Chardok & there has seldom been, if ever, any problem. The primary trick is to do 2 things: 1) wait until MT starts clobbering a MOB (that you are /assisting if you are not the MT) and 2) let the group know that the mob is DoTed. That's it. Seldom will you ever have a problem. Boil Blood is a decent spell & I use it all the time.
=)
Lunatic
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https://web.archive.org/web/20051125...?threadid=1100
Quote:
04-26-2002, 01:08 AM
Post #15
Zorlac Sabboth
Luminary
Joined: Dec 1999
Location: Somewhere from the cold north.
Quote:
Originally posted by dirtybax
If resisted then no disease counters are added and no extra aggro is generated. At least it seems that way for me.
~Bax
- Why is a level 9 SK spell (Disease cloud) one of the best taunts in the game? Even if it's resisted (no counters added)?
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Quote:
04-26-2002, 04:13 PM
Post #23
Cragael
Disciple
Joined: Nov 1999
Slow aggro is somewhat down, in my opinion. Mind you, I am still the life of the party as far as a summoning MOB is concerned. Practically assured I will still benefit from having my name called and the cool translocate that goes with it when slow lands *grin*
But I notice it easily when slowing mez'd MOBs. Right before the patch, they used to make a bee line for me. Enchanters loved it by the way Since the patch, the robes are slowly getting shreded again when mez breaks unless I add a little Cripple for extra love
Disease Cloud is such a taunt because level 50+ MOBs really find it offensive to be tagged with a lowbie spell such as it.
Nah.... just kidding. Disease cloud puts in ONE disease counter (same as sicken), that's it. There is no special aggro code for it. The SK that are good at pulling aggro off with it usually manage it because they're doing their job well with a BUNCH of stuff, not just from casting disease cloud. It's a tool among many for them.
The real attention grabbers are still rate reduction spells, both attack (slows) and movement (snare).
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04-26-2002, 04:40 PM
Disease cloud Post #24
SnowwSilverhammer
Luminary
Joined: May 2001
Location: On the Permafrost. Listening to the growls of Brother bear and sister wolf
Disease cloud is one of the best taunts in the game for a simple reason.
When they Nerfed the crap out of the disease spells back at the beginning of the game they forgot about disease cloud.
Remember The disease based spells used to last for like 20 minutes or more. Doing steady damage for long long times.
Look at the duration of disease cloud. 6 minutes. It was never fixed.
That is why it is one of the best taunts in the game. Now hush don't talk about it any more.
That is also where the rumour comes from about Disease based spells nullifying regen. I have never tested it but I belive it does take away natural based regen. (Yes it is speculation, no I don't know it for fact, yes I will test it soon. Please note Natural based regen. Not item based, not spell based)
It and the level 1 Necro spell of the same name are the only remaining true disease based spells in the game. The ones we have that were nerfed into oblivion are not even close to the old ones.
Snoww Silverhammer Bashy bear Emarr
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04-27-2002, 04:59 PM
Post #29
Boinshar
Prophet of War
Joined: Jan 2000
Location: Springfield Va USA
Desease does absolutly jack against natural regen. That is why people still naturally regen when they get "strong desease" in hate. Test this yourself by casting Sicken on yourself, it does maybe 2 damage a tick, as long as your normal regen is higher than 2, you will get natural regen - 2 as your adjusted regen rate.
DoTs, including desease DoTs, counter regen by doing damage, not by any other means. If a mob regens 90 hps a tick, and you land Pox on it, it won't apear to regen anymore. The rumor, myth, or speculation involving desease dots cancelling regen is yet another case of people trying to apply their "logic" to the EQ spell system.
Desease cloud has such a high taunt because of two reasons. First, it has multiple components, DD, DoT, Add Desease Counter. Second, adding poison/desease counters are among the highest agro generating components (Tish line, Insidious decay, Plague O Insects are prime examples). Chain cast Insidious Decay on something, you will see, and it's only got 2 components.
I haven't really had too much problems with resisted Turgurs in NToV, haven't really done much else though.
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Boinshar Harlishambar
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https://web.archive.org/web/20050909...p/t-18813.html
Quote:
senor sperro
12-09-2003, 09:44 PM
back in the day i used to use disease cloud as my main agro getter.. cast that a few times on a mob and agro was mine, but clinging darkness still gets agro even if a mob is snared and the spell does not hold. its is the greatest agro spell an sk will get and can get agro no matter what...
use clinging darkness anyways sinuu
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https://web.archive.org/web/20030606...5&pagenumber=3
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Klang
Member
Registered: Apr 2002
If you haven't already, go to the EQ Development forum
and complain that you want Disease Cloud restored to it's prior
taunt capability. Just this one issue (forget all our other problems
for the time being). Maybe if we bang on the cages loud enough
the jailer will bring us some bread and water, eh?
Klang, 55 SK
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Old Post 05-10-2002 04:56 PM
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Zhug
Member
Registered: Mar 2002
Fighting our way to creator last night I decided to test this "nerf".
DC'd one snake < 60, he turned on me.
DC'd one big snake = 60, he turned on me
DC'd one golem = 60, he turned on me.
I had no problem grabbing agro when I wanted to /shrug
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Old Post 05-10-2002 05:38 PM
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Groobash
This board still sux.
Registered: Mar 2002
During a Kael arena raid last night, DC provided very little (if any) agro.
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Old Post 05-10-2002 05:47 PM
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VilleCretur Hatebound
Member
Registered: Mar 2002
I noticed this a bit on Wednesday night hunting brutes in Warsilk Woods with a partner, was wondering what was going on. Sure hope they fix it soon.
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Villecretur Hatebound : 30 DE SK
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Old Post 05-10-2002 06:11 PM
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Zemi
Member
Registered: Apr 2002
The worst thing is not the fact that DC wont taunt for upper level SKs, it's the fact that pre 39 SKs will have few options.
DC is not a spell I use a whole lot anymore, but it still sits on page 1, for the times I really need agro.
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Lords of Da Ogre Dance
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Old Post 05-10-2002 06:16 PM
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Chania
Revenant
Registered: Mar 2002
I predicted this nerf a long time ago. The aggro that DC had was not by any VI design, but by their ignorance. I'm sure no one at VI designed or foresaw a 60 SK using a level 1 necro spell as a staple spell.
I knew that sometime in the future, a change would be made that would negate this level 1 spell's usefulness. We say that SK's are the kings of taunt, well, that was never in VI's grand scheme of things, it was primarily a by product of a few spells, and in DC's case, unintended. You can't tell me that the programmers sat together and said, "Hey, lets make SK's kings of taunt, we'll give em a spell at level 9 that they can use their entire life as a great taunt! Yeah, lets do that!"
Don't get me wrong, it sucks hardcore. They take away a major part of our arsenal, and the best part is, they didn't even know about it. Question is, do they care?
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Chania Thanatos
Dread Lord of Rodcet Nife
"Fear now, Snare later"
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Old Post 05-10-2002 06:19 PM
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CanizMortem
Member
Registered: Mar 2002
No, they don't seem to care. Verant seems like a rudderless ship in a sea of apathy. The Vision has been dead for a longtime. That's good and bad, lately very bad.
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Caniz Mortem
Iksar SK, E'ci
56.40 Revenant (retired)
"Live long and wither"
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Old Post 05-10-2002 06:33 PM
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Mystina
Dread Lord
Registered: Mar 2002
I don't think VI intentionally "nerfed" DC, they just wanted to lower slow spells aggro, and "Huh sks? Bah lets do this now and we'll see later about em.".
Fixing DC and Asystole aggro would be very easy I believe, they'll prolly do it soon.
If they don't I require massive upgrade to compensate this.
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Remove the f****ing level cap on fear!
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Old Post 05-10-2002 06:47 PM
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synnoira
Mwahahaha
Registered: Mar 2002
is /feedback this morning as good as posting at dev's corner or comes to samething?
never actually felt a real need to complain before but i logged in and did the /feedback thing first thing before going out
i agree i don't think this was an intentional nerf but the ignorance involved of sk's is pretty staggering
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Old Post 05-10-2002 07:09 PM
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Community members quoting/replying to the comment made by Absor...
Quote:
AbsorEQ
Community Relations Manager
Registered: May 2002
Let's talk about this.
Disease Cloud is a 9th level spell. I think it's pretty odd that any change to a 9th level spell would/should be important to 50+ level SKs.
This, to me, indicates that there's something wrong. A 9th level spell probably shouldn't be so useful that it's a problem for such high level characters.
There are other, better and higher level spells that you can use to taunt. Yes, they cost more mana. But, if you look at this from the perspective of the game at large, what real sense does it make that high level SKs are using a low level spell?
I'm just not convinced that this needs to be changed.
Alan
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Old Post 05-10-2002 07:35 PM
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Leyrin
Reaver
Registered: Mar 2002
Alan,
DC is 1.5 second cast.
Low Mana. Etc etc. and above all, the best aggro in game.
Tell me wich spell you want us to use, and it must be at most a 1.5 second spell too.
Edit (yes i hate to edit my post):
Theres about above 100-150 post in this message board talking about it. Most of the SK agree that 2 spells are above any other to aggro. DC being one. there is reasons. After playing a SK for 3 years, 60hours a week, every SK agree on those 2 spells!!! There is no other spell than those 2.
I give you a question back. Why you put the most usefull spell of ShadowKnight, a level 9 spell. Maybe some work to HighLevel SK spell may be needed?
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Troll Grave Lord
Town$hip Rebellion
r-e-t-i-r-e-d
Last edited by Leyrin on 05-10-2002 at 07:51 PM
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Old Post 05-10-2002 07:43 PM
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Fezzika
Reaver
Registered: Mar 2002
The issue here is that DC was a major tool for SK's, something that made SK's extremely valuable in exp groups to contain aggro off enchanters/clerics/nukers, etc. That spell was widely regarded as the best aggro spell in the game, and was something that made SK's valuable.
Now it has been altered and is no longer effective. Whether this was done accidentally or intentionally, the SK class should receive something that is the equivalent to DC to be used for the same purpose. Keep in mind this is just to allow SK's to remain AS USEFUL in groups, not increase in our usefulness.
And I certainly agree with the above poster...if one of the best spell we had was a level 9 spell, perhaps a good examination of the spells is in order.
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Fezzika Dworfbashur
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Old Post 05-10-2002 07:49 PM
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Azzikai Shuruga
Member
Registered: May 2002
A few questions, Alan:
If you knew that this side effect was going to occur why wasn't the SK community made aware of the change?
For that matter, if this side effect to all disease based dots (Shaman and Necros included) as well as the disease based Shaman slow Plague of Insects was intented, why wasn't it announced?
I can see why you don't like a level 9 spell being important but this "fix" has changed all disease based spells, including the one it would appear you'd rather have SK's use: Level 60 Asystole.
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~ Azzikai, Luminary
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Old Post 05-10-2002 07:51 PM
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12-31-2022, 09:51 PM
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