Not a whine but can we please fix melee?

[lr672931]

I am currently playing a warrior, and though the AC issue isn't enough to make me not play, it is definetly noticeable. I played a ranger in live classic EQ then switched to a warrior later on for quite a few years. I don't have any data or proof but it *feels* as though I get beat up a little bit more than I should be getting beat up. I don't feel like a warrior, I feel like how a ranger used to feel back in the early days :P

Just seems as though I am getting hit for near full damage much to often with appropriate AC/equipment... making tanking very inefficient in both a group and soloing. I think Takshaka posted a very relevant quote on how AC was handled in live, and would make sense as to what feels off about it right now. Just the mitigation for the most part.

Anyways, regardless I am enjoying the server and having fun, as I said it's not broken to the point of it being unplayable. Hell, I don't even really consider it broken. I think it just needs to be tweaked a little. Keep up the good work!

[Villert]

Originally Posted by Lord Traxor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hope people realize EQ was hard as heck in 1999 and soloing was not really viable for melee classes.

This comment almost always comes from someone who either, 1. Doesn't play melee now, or 2. Play melee now, but didn't in '99.

And soloing was extremely viable for monks at the very least, even before kunark/velious. Most melees could solo, it just wasn't efficient, monks made it efficient with mend/bandaging and FD.

It's really not close to the way it was, and if you think it is, you're kidding yourself...

[girth]

Monks could solo to 50 NAKED, completely naked. It happened more than a few times. If you think its even close at the moment, you should pull your head out.

[Cribanox]

Yes, I agree. Melee's solo wasn't great back then because of the regen between fights, not because youd die to a blue.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monks could solo to 50 NAKED, completely naked. It happened more than a few times. If you think its even close at the moment, you should pull your head out.

Doesn't sound right. I recall playing with a monk in 99, and he was nothing special. However, you might be partially right. Most of a monk's ac is avoidance-oriented due to his dodge and defensive skill. The ac he gets from leather armour is not much compared to what a warrior gets. Put another way, when compared to a warrior, monks may as well be naked.

Saying that melees soloed back then is just a joke bro. Melees had trouble soloing just a couple years ago. They might be able to kill a mob, like someone else here has said, but then they'd have to rest to full health which makes it wasted effort. And even then, I'm not entirely sure I buy that. Without my merc on the live servers, dark blues would kill me routinely - and that's a ranger.

Want to put a melee in a good circumstance? Find a real group! Get a cleric or druid for heals & buffs, get a chanter or shaman for slows & haste, get some other dps to back you up, and also enjoy the benefits of group exp distribution. There'll be a BIG difference between solo and group play at that point. Back then people tended to depend on others more, and in a group this effect was made apparent. Add all this together and it cut a big valley between soloers and groupers that has filled some with grief and others with fond remembrance.

I just get a funny feeling that this is the start of the soloers vs groupers thread. In all reality, play a solo class until we have more population to support groups. Until then, you're just making it more painful. You're filling yourself with frustration too. Make a mage, make a ranger, make a druid, make a sk, make a necromancer, make a bard, what others are there? Level them up to 50 and get some good twink gear. Then make a warrior/rogue/monk/etc. And by then maybe there'll be more people too.

To sum up my feelings about all this: a few of you sound like complainers. You might be right, but you sound suspiciously like someone who doesn't remember how hard it was to solo in 1999. Some of you sound reasonable. I think defense could be tweaked, but i'm not sure I accept that it's fundamentally flawed. If that's true, whoever has made the code did not do their homework. Until i can try the server myself (still waiting on it), I can't make a good judgement on this yet. Until then, i'll give the complainers the benefit of doubt.

Afterall, the server has been up for a month and beta was nearly empty. This could very well be a bug/flaw.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Villert [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you're serious - that's such a joke - lol. Monks were quite good in classic pre kunark. Mages, actually, were rather shunned in groups - seem unbelievable? It's not.

Monk Fists are like 14/30 at level 50, making them the best dual wieldable weapons in the game, minus the fanged skull stilleto, which I believe only dropped from GM events.

Monks useless on this server? So far, unfortunately, yes. On live pre kunark? Heavens no.

That and monks have the highest dual wield % in the game. FD is great to have too. And their kick attacks rule.

I think this guys mistake is not finding groups. A monk shouldn't be tanking, imho.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by blanks77 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After recently playing on a different classic type server compared to this one. The player melee seem pretty close, a bit off still. But the NPC hit rates were totally different. Here the mobs barely miss and hits for almost max every time. On other servers, their hit rate is much lower. Thats why we can't solo anything with melee. The mobs hit rates are to high here.

You may be on to something about getting hit too much. However, monks would get hit for max damage quite a bit back then (according to what I've seen). I'd expect near the same for non-warriors or non-plate classes.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Jify [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have to admit, it seems weird. I thought it might have been all smoke and mirrors as I leveled my ranger up. Levels 1-7 I was able to take even cons with ease. Now, blues, I need full HP, full mana, and still may have to run. (Did I mention I'm twinked with nearly 300AC and a PGT?)

I can't imagine what the higher lvl melee are going through! Sorry guys 8(

Are you in full banded? What's your armor?

I remmeber being in blackburrow around 10 and having bought some leather armor that boosted my ac and noticing that my hp went down slower. If increasing your ac does not help in some wya, then I agree that something is wrong.

[Villert]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Doesn't sound right. I recall playing with a monk in 99, and he was nothing special. However, you might be partially right. Most of a monk's ac is avoidance-oriented due to his dodge and defensive skill. The ac he gets from leather armour is not much compared to what a warrior gets. Put another way, when compared to a warrior, monks may as well be naked.

As far as avoidance goes, dodge and block aren't working properly at the moment - or more likely, mob hit rates being 90%+ don't allow them to work properly. AC added from leather might be less, but monks also get a bonus to their AC because of class.

That all goes without saying the biggest point; this isn't JUST a MONK problem, it's a MELEE problem - all melees are hurting from this, warriors included.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Saying that melees soloed back then is just a joke bro. Melees had trouble soloing just a couple years ago. They might be able to kill a mob, like someone else here has said, but then they'd have to rest to full health which makes it wasted effort. And even then, I'm not entirely sure I buy that. Without my merc on the live servers, dark blues would kill me routinely - and that's a ranger.

Monks, when played right, were extremely effective soloers. Combining FD, bandaging, ID and a little intelligence went a far way. I personally soloed easily til 40+ in classic as a monk, just because you couldn't, doesn't mean it couldn't be done.

The fact that you even mentioned live servers and mercs is bad enough. The fact that you can't solo WITH a merc and the mudflated equipment I'm sure you had at that point, pretty much explains your skill in this game. I won't even make a joke about the ranger part...

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Want to put a melee in a good circumstance? Find a real group! Get a cleric or druid for heals & buffs, get a chanter or shaman for slows & haste, get some other dps to back you up, and also enjoy the benefits of group exp distribution. There'll be a BIG difference between solo and group play at that point. Back then people tended to depend on others more, and in a group this effect was made apparent. Add all this together and it cut a big valley between soloers and groupers that has filled some with grief and others with fond remembrance.

This really makes no sense. We're not talking about grouping here. If we were, I'd tell you that it's tough for melees to get a group in the first place, because everyone would rather have mages or enchanters in their group. This has nothing to do with anything, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just get a funny feeling that this is the start of the soloers vs groupers thread. In all reality, play a solo class until we have more population to support groups. Until then, you're just making it more painful. You're filling yourself with frustration too. Make a mage, make a ranger, make a druid, make a sk, make a necromancer, make a bard, what others are there? Level them up to 50 and get some good twink gear. Then make a warrior/rogue/monk/etc. And by then maybe there'll be more people too.

Soloers vs. groupers? What?

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To sum up my feelings about all this: a few of you sound like complainers. You might be right, but you sound suspiciously like someone who doesn't remember how hard it was to solo in 1999. Some of you sound reasonable. I think defense could be tweaked, but i'm not sure I accept that it's fundamentally flawed. If that's true, whoever has made the code did not do their homework. Until i can try the server myself (still waiting on it), I can't make a good judgement on this yet. Until then, i'll give the complainers the benefit of doubt.

Afterall, the server has been up for a month and beta was nearly empty. This could very well be a bug/flaw.

... Why are you even commenting? I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but, not only have you not played melee yet on this server, you haven't even played on this server at all...

And yes, this is a bug/flaw, that's the whole point of threads like this...

[girth]

Until i can try the server myself (still waiting on it),

Then shut the hell up.