Planar Protector
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,200
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010221...ML/000665.html
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Author Topic: Bard Talk item list
Absor
Station Member posted 02-16-2001 12:29 PM
About these lists:
First and foremost, understand that this is only a list of concerns to be brought to the Live Team. This is not a list of promises, and I'm certainly not telling you that any or all of these items will be changed or implemented.
Also, there are three types of items that I don't have listed here. Epic Quests, Magic Resistances in Velious and Mid-level quests. Those three items were mentioned by enough classes that I've pulled them out for separate examination.
All items are currently marked with NONE for status. Obviously we've already started working on some items, you've seen the lists from the patch messages on the Test Server. I will be updating the status for items early next week to reflect those potential changes and with any responses from the team. I just wanted to get these lists out to you fresh.
I want these lists to be final as you see them now, but I know there will need to be changes made. So this list is not final. But if you want something added to or removed from the list, please be convincing about the change. At this point I don't want to tack on too many more items, since the team is already reviewing the original list.
Thanks for the input so far.
Alan
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ITEM: Song ‘Stacking’.
DESCRIPTION: Cantana (of Replenishment - 34 and Soothing – 55) and Clarity (and Harvest) will stack, sort of. If the target has the effects of a Cantana on him and someone tries to cast a Clarity (or Harvest) spell on the target, the Clarity (or Harvest) will not stick. But if the Clarity spell is on a target, the bard Cantana will take effect just fine. The Cantana(s) also have the same problem with regeneration-type spells. This appears to be a bug.
STATUS: None
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Fyreheart
Station Member posted 02-16-2001 03:36 PM
Song stacking issue is not limited to clarity. I think it's catana that both heals and gives mana. I can cast regen on a target if the bard has stopped singing the song. If he is singing, no regen spell will hold.
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Kellen
Station Member posted 02-17-2001 12:23 AM
Pardon me for not reading through all the responses or if I missed this on the initial post, but was the Clarity II/Gift of Pure Thought not being able to overwrite Cantana problem raised at all? It's annoying having enchanters request bards to stop playing Cantana so they can cast clarity2 on the bard's group members.
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Trainspotter
Station Member posted 02-19-2001 07:21 AM
Issues on the list: 35
Bug fixes: 18
Balance issues: 16
Nerf: 1
Hmmm...
These lists are to document issues before a lock-down on balance? I am concerned that over half the list could easily be called bug-fixes... some of which have little to do with class balance. I have no idea why the drum animation leads the list... this bug has been in the game for two years, and is totally cosmetic. It should have been fixed a year and a half ago! This fix has NOTHING to do with class balance! Stacking issues with clarity, catana & such are bugs that have been in the game for months... /boggle
Please, Absor, sort the list like this:
Bug fixes - Bugs to be fixed do not affect game/class balance - like Selo's Song of Travel on the Melodic Breast Plate!
Enhancements/balance fixes - issues that make bards as useful & effective as other classes - like song haste stacking with haste spells.
I hate to even mention the lute of the howler... how meaningless is that! You are removing a lvl 55-60 plus item to protect the fragile egos of THE MOST PAMPERED class in the game. A bardic balance non-issue!
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https://web.archive.org/web/20020127...html?item=5374
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Sable Xegony Reply... By: Anonymous
Posted @ Mon, May 21st 11:36 AM 2001 Score: Default[2.00]
HI there, i have the robe, so i thought id clear some things up for you all. some had mentioned this robe is 1 mana per tick, im not sure what a tick is but this is 1 mana per second.
I calculated this robe and tested it against clarity breeze clarity 2 clarity 2 with mana song and etc
The add from clarity = 1.6 mana per second
the add from C2 = 2.2 mana per second
the add from this robe is = 1.0 mana per second
if tick = 5 seconds then robe = 5 mana a tick
All i know the robe is 1 mana a tick , and will stack with other series in this line.
If you had all 3 flowing thought items 1though 3, your reganing more mana then c2 3.0 mana per tick.
Now the percentage of mana reganed is low, now where compared to melee haste, but C2 plus mana song together is super low percentage too, you guys have to take into consideration that.
Anyway happy argueing, thought id make your live lesss complicacated. remember its
per second i did this calculation NOt per tick, i dont even know what per tick is lol.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20010124...ML/000262.html
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Dairus
Station Member posted 10-06-2000 07:06 AM
Kaldivar, you really hit on something with the title of this thread "why bother anymore?".
I have several characters, most of whom are in their mid 30's and a couple in their 40's <druid and enchanter> but never have I been as frustrated as I am by my 35th level Bard. I love the concept of bards. I love the rp potential that a bard offers. I completely appreciate their self-less nature within the dynamic of a group and I am occasionally in awe of their soloing capabilities <if you don't mind wearing out several keyboards with all the work that soloing involves>. I REALLY want to play this character more often because for the first time in 18 months of playing EQ this is the first class that continually excites my imagination every time I log him on.
However... Upon reaching the early 30's I began to notice a change in the bard's effectiveness. This has a lot to do with other peoples' understanding of this class <within a group> as much as it does with my responsibility to learn how to play this class to it's fullest potential, but OMG is it irritating.
At level 35 I can no longer effectively ae mez a medium-sized pull of blue lizzies in CT. I can't really justify tanking since my melee skills seem to have completely evaporated before my eyes and charm? Ack! No thank you. Unless I'm doing something terribly wrong <not out of the realm of possibilities> at level 35 my single target charm <level 27 song> lasts approximately 10 to 15 secs. It's not continual so I have to re-start it when charm breaks. This not only shoots me to the top of the aggro list for the now formerly-charmed MoB but in places like Lower Guk, where pulls of 4 or more mobs are the norm, the need to constantly manage a single target keeps me from benefiting the group as a whole with either melee buffs with instruments or mana regen for the healer(s). At that point I'm nothing more than a mana sponge to the healer and perhaps a liability to the whole group since that healing mana is better spent on the puller who is on 3 other mobs hate lists.
No enchanter in the group? Don't worry we have a bard! Yeah, I've heard that before and not long after that well-intentioned yet fateful in-group message I see my ae mezzes are resisted and my single MoB charm breaks and I'm stunned and I can't melee well enough or long enough to give the real tanks a chance to jump in and taunt it off me and I'm in turn beaten to blue-armored pulp at which point I'm guaranteed to see....Loading, please wait.
Ahh, well, maybe it's me. Maybe it's my responsibility to educate each and every group of near-total strangers that I join/meet. Perhaps I need to make a social hot-key the says in-group "Hi there, I'm a bard! I'm not an enchanter, not a warrior/tank melee damager, not a wizard or even a rogue. I'm the guy who makes you all REALLY REALLY good at what it is that you do and it makes me happy and at times proud to do so. Now, just so everyone in the group understands that I don't mez, I don't charm, I don't tank, I don't save lives with my heals, I don't have the AC to pull effectively and btw I don't run fast indoors". The group leader then thinks to him/herself "Umm, why do we need a bard? Jeez, haste stack changes and all this baggage?" At which point I should hit group hot-key #2 and say "What I do offer is the opportunity to make the melee-ers in the group the best they can be,making them hit harder, faster and more accurately and in turn shorten each battles' duration <provided that stats really do matter... > which might just save some healer some mana and make for quicker pulls and faster experience gain because there's less downtime since they're casting maybe one less 300 mana cost heal on that 1400hp-having warrior. I'm the person who will, on his own, have the casters in the group regaining mana quicker and when there's an enchanter in the group, stacked clarity and my mana song = mana regen at ungodly rates <thus further shortening downtime>.
Oh well, I don't think those will all fit on a hot-key and I'm not sure I'm up to the task of educating the 2,500 people on my server as to why they should want a bard in their group anyway. I think I'll log on my enchanter. Yeah, that's what I'll do. But wait, first I need to make a group hot-key detailing why people HAVE to use /assist or they're gonna break my enthralls and then tell them about taunting to break mezz so that I'm not aggro'd on and............
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Taliskar
Station Member posted 10-25-2000 12:25 PM
I play a bard, level 38 at the moment. He is by far the weakest character I have ever played. His use is simple in any good group... he plays mana song between fights, twists 3 group buffs and melees during fights. That's it. No magic tricks, nothing fancy. One of those buffs doesn't include haste now... so I pick another.
If things go bad, he has the ability to pull out a few cool things. If an evac is called, I stand near the transport and play my AOE fear song. If the monster isn't running at least he is hitting me and not the porter...
If something is on the chanter or healer, I can try to charm it. It never really works, lasts no time if it does, but I have to say... that is the one best taunt I have ever seen. No warrior can taunt as well. I can usually live till the chanter gets a mes on the mob... usually.
If I'm running outside, I'm the fastest thing on two legs. Well except for shadow men it seems... but I've out raced Grimfeather to zone more then once. I'm fast enough, but I still carry JBOOTS! Why? because they are fast enough, work every time on a click, and allow me to twist one more song. Every little bit helps.
Is our mes useless, yes. I sometimes try to help lower level players break the orc camps in EC. I step in, safe in the knowledge that they cant really hit me, and play AOE mes. I can keep about half of them standing still... about half the time... and they are a good many levels under me? I know, I know, my charisma is ONLY 150... any self respecting twink would have a 200 right? It still helps the newbies, and I get the satisfaction that the orcs really can't hurt me.
All this and I still play a bard. WHY? I'll tell you why... I've NEVER had to spend even one second medding back mana... If I'm not dead, I'm ready to go. Even being low on hps doesn't matter really. You are trained by repeated deaths not to taunt monsters; so I rarely ever get hit in combat, unless I'm LOADING... please waiting my way to bind point. Then I get all my hps back... so NO waiting ever. You are always good to go!
Do bards need a fix or two... yes. The your song stops abruptly messages I've been getting lately that leaves me showing no song playing, but still getting the messages for a song, they are annoying. You basically have to zone, camp, die, or get bashed to change a song. If you can't twist, you are useless. If you can't stop a song for the pull, you are dead. This is a bad bug.
My forage skill is a waste. The cap makes it useless to bother with, I just buy milk and muffins. Its not worth the trouble.
My safe fall is nice. Its just the right level to keep me alive on most terrain at bard boot speeds... while slowly pounding my group to death that is following me. A nice feeling, if a bit self centered.
Tracking is good. Its skill capped at the perfect place. I've seen rangers who wished to have my skill cap. Why? The things on the screen are all near me. heh. I never wander to the wrong end of the zone past 3 simular monsters to get to the one I'm tracking. If I don't see it, its too far away to bother with.
Instill doubt? I swish about, look cool and scare a single monster once in awhile. Its almost usefull, in those situations where you are worried about the AOE aspect of your fear song. Most places however, the fear song is a better more sure thing. It NEVER gets used in a dungeon though, toooooo risky.
Dual wield... A nice touch. However, double attack would have been WAY easier to deal with. Why? they have about the same general effect on damage dealt to monsters. More or less... But with dual wield I'm forced to swap out 2 weapons for my instrument EVERY time I change. Not very smart really, I wonder why I did it that way?
So what would I like to see? Simple... bards need to have a "play" skill. When used, this button should stay down until released, and automatically cycle through the top 2... or 3... or 4 songs in the memorized song list. Automatically twisting for you. This would make all connection speeds equally as good. Ok, that takes a host side change as well as a client side one, so its likely not to happen. Well, if you make it client side only it won't help connection speed issues, but it will save me about 10,000 clicks an evening. Is that all that bad? Yes, I've heard all the... twisting is a skill remarks. Yes, I can twist 3 songs consistantly, and 4 on a good day with only a few drops. Am I happy I can? Yep. Do I want to make all those UNSKILLED bards just as good as I am? Yes I do, if it will keep me from the 10,000 clicks of torture I go through every night.
In closing... so this won't seem a total rant. I like my bard. Nerf him all you want,(I suggest that mana song not stack with clarity, that way I can play other songs too sometimes *hey its a joke! dont flame me for that :0*) I'll keep playing him and my friends will keep grouping with me. I like bards alot, but I do think there are things that can be done to improve the experience of being one...
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