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  #21  
Old 12-06-2023, 01:02 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Anyone saying you can "easily" cap Iksar INT, please post a Magelo so we can judge what sort of gear you're defining as "easily acquired", especially if you're advocating a 25 STA/5 INT split which results in 90 starting INT. If you're stacking HP gear as you should be (because +HP gives way better returns than pumping STA), it's actually quite difficult to max Iksar INT until you've got a good amount of Velious no drops.
https://wiki.project1999.com/Hand_of_the_Reaper +15 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Gnoll_Hide_Tome +10 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Iksar_Hide_Manual +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Supple_Scale_Armband +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Steel_W...nd_of_Strategy + 7 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Braided_Cinch_Cord +4 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Fancy_Velvet_Mantle +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Black_Alloy_Medallion +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Astral_..._of_the_Titans +10 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Iksar_Hide_Cap +7 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Coldain_Skin_Gloves +6 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Diamond_Wedding_Band +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Di%60zok_Begirding +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Coldain_Skin_Boots +8 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_Secrets +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ivandyr%27s_Hoop +6 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Batskull_Earring +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Tolapumj%27s_Robe +10 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cloak_of_the_Maelstrom +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Loam_Encrusted_Sleeves +5 INT

This is 133 INT, all with items you can buy in EC. Most of them are cheap too. An Iksar with 90 INT would already be at 223 INT. Past 200 INT you are getting diminishing returns on INT. If you were an Erudite with 122 INT you would be capped at 255 INT.

Necros are good at farming, so it isn't too difficult for them to get the money to buy this stuff.
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Last edited by DeathsSilkyMist; 12-06-2023 at 01:21 PM..
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  #22  
Old 12-06-2023, 01:16 PM
Crede Crede is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
https://wiki.project1999.com/Hand_of_the_Reaper +15 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Gnoll_Hide_Tome +10 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Iksar_Hide_Manual +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Supple_Scale_Armband +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Steel_W...nd_of_Strategy + 7 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Braided_Cinch_Cord +4 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Fancy_Velvet_Mantle +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Black_Alloy_Medallion +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Astral_..._of_the_Titans +10 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Iksar_Hide_Cap +7 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Coldain_Skin_Gloves +6 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Diamond_Wedding_Band +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Di%60zok_Begirding +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Coldain_Skin_Boots +8 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Mask_of_Secrets +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ivandyr%27s_Hoop +6 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Batskull_Earring +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Tolapumj%27s_Robe +10 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Cloak_of_the_Maelstrom +5 INT
https://wiki.project1999.com/Loam_Encrusted_Sleeves +5 INT

This is 133 INT, all with items you can buy in EC. Most of them are cheap too. An Iksar with 90 INT would already be at 223 INT. Past 200 INT you are getting diminishing returns on INT. If you were an Erudite with 122 INT you would be capped at 255 INT.
Can tell you've never played a necro, congrats on breaking 200 int with absolutely shit hp.

Here's a relevant quote from an actual necro, not DSM:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
In the past I've always gone with 25 Int/5 Sta because that Int helps on a brand new first character and Classic/Kunark era gear gives us a good bit of freedom to pick +HP items instead of +Int/Mana items. I don't remember it exactly, but 2012-2015 Blue Sess sat somewhere around 200 Int but had 1.8k-1.9k HP. Come Velious though, so many of the best +HP items are also +Int/Mana items, so there's no real trade off going on.

I've been toying with both Dex and Sta necro, and related to what I said earlier, both feel to me like they play better as twinked characters. That 85 Int is just rough on one's mana capacity in the early to mid game when the character doesn't have enough cash together to get good Int items in addition to the more important big +HP items.

Edit: For a bit of fun while camping AC, I decided to put together my item of choice for each slot and then figure out the ideal starting stats if I were to somehow get every one of those items. Starting stats: +12 Dex, +14 Intelligence, +4 Strength. STA will always be greater than 255, but Int will hit exactly 255 and Dex will hit exactly 240 for 31 average seconds per proc (couldn't get 255 for 30), and Strength will hit 207. I guess I'll try that for my next necro!
Last edited by Crede; 12-06-2023 at 01:19 PM..
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  #23  
Old 12-06-2023, 01:17 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Can tell you've never played a necro, congrats on breaking 200 int with absolutely shit hp.
yeah was gonna say lmao

max mana means almost nothing as long as you dont play like a mongoloid
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Last edited by Toxigen; 12-06-2023 at 01:19 PM..
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  #24  
Old 12-06-2023, 01:37 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Can tell you've never played a necro, congrats on breaking 200 int with absolutely shit hp.

Here's a relevant quote from an actual necro, not DSM:
Lol I just gave a basic example of gear that puts you over 200 INT. It's all EC buyable too. I never said it was an optimal setup. The point is that INT is common on droppable items by the time you get to Velious, you don't need raid gear to get a ton of INT.

Good job at making yourself look like an ass, again. Please stop making assumptions about what people are saying.
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Old 12-06-2023, 03:03 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...StatsNonRaid01

You can still hit 201 INT with an Iksar in EC gear and free rot drops while also focusing on HP. A Necro can easily farm the money for this stuff just by killing guards while leveling.

Casters get 2.4 HP per STA, and 5.5 Mana per INT (over 200) at level 60. With 25 STA/5 INT on starting stats, you are looking at +60 HP vs. +138 Mana before you cap your INT with buffs and slightly better gear. After you cap INT you are getting +60 HP instead of +0 Mana.
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  #26  
Old 12-06-2023, 03:17 PM
Toxigen Toxigen is offline
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c u boys in 30 pages
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  #27  
Old 12-06-2023, 06:50 PM
Duik Duik is offline
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A Necromancer is just a Shadow Knight in a dress! DSM
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  #28  
Old 12-06-2023, 07:24 PM
Vexenu Vexenu is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_...StatsNonRaid01

You can still hit 201 INT with an Iksar in EC gear and free rot drops while also focusing on HP. A Necro can easily farm the money for this stuff just by killing guards while leveling.

Casters get 2.4 HP per STA, and 5.5 Mana per INT (over 200) at level 60. With 25 STA/5 INT on starting stats, you are looking at +60 HP vs. +138 Mana before you cap your INT with buffs and slightly better gear. After you cap INT you are getting +60 HP instead of +0 Mana.
Except most people aren't twinking a Necro to that extent. I made what I consider a much more realistically and cheaply geared Necro twink:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:RealNecca

I have more HP and about 200 less mana than your example with probably a quarter of your budget or less. This is how you can feasibly gear when pumping INT at creation. That being said, I think you can reasonably argue for pumping STA if you know you are going to be heavily twinked from the beginning and are confident you will be pushing the character to 60 and acquiring raid gear, because it's true that the extra INT becomes meaningless at the very late game. But if you're an average player either making a Necro from scratch or just messing around with a reasonably geared twink, I think you're much better off pumping INT.
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  #29  
Old 12-06-2023, 07:38 PM
Vivitron Vivitron is offline
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I swapped some gear around on my 60 ench and if I didn't screw it up:

20 sta: 48 hp
20 int sub 200: 222ish mana
20 int post 200: 116ish mana

I went int on my iksar necro and I'm at ~160 int at 54. Rolled him with the expectation that I won't gear him enough to hit 200 int. Not sure it was the right choice but at least it's not a huge difference.
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  #30  
Old 12-06-2023, 09:22 PM
DeathsSilkyMist DeathsSilkyMist is offline
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Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Except most people aren't twinking a Necro to that extent. I made what I consider a much more realistically and cheaply geared Necro twink:

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:RealNecca

I have more HP and about 200 less mana than your example with probably a quarter of your budget or less. This is how you can feasibly gear when pumping INT at creation. That being said, I think you can reasonably argue for pumping STA if you know you are going to be heavily twinked from the beginning and are confident you will be pushing the character to 60 and acquiring raid gear, because it's true that the extra INT becomes meaningless at the very late game. But if you're an average player either making a Necro from scratch or just messing around with a reasonably geared twink, I think you're much better off pumping INT.
You don't need to start your Necro with that much gear. They can start naked and level naked. You can make 10k every 40 hours just from killing guards while leveling. You can also shave like 10k off my Magelo with just a few swaps. You don't need Djarn's, you can use a Sandwitch of Foul Smelling Herbs, etc. You'd only lose 25 HP from those two swaps. Getting 30K or more just from leveling by killing guards is very realistic on a Necromancer. I did this on my Shadowknight.

Your Magelo is great for a tighter budget, but it doesn't really show why going INT for your starting stats is better. INT is still easy to cap, easier than STA. Your STA is 87 points behind your INT. The default assumption should be that you are going to level to 60, since that is how the leveling mechanic works. Usually people who aren't getting to 60 are either making bots for Vox/Naggy, or are very casual. If you are very casual, starting stats don't really matter, because INT and STA scale with level. You aren't getting much HP or Mana from your stats anyway if you are the type of player that stops at level 25.

EDIT: Also it looks like Magelo's HP calculations are off, for cloth casters at least. If I add +14 STA by swapping my boots to Netted Kelp Lined Shoes for example, I only get +23 HP. This is clearly wrong, so my Magelo is showing lower HP than it should, with +29 STA over yours. My example would probably have a bit more HP than yours if the calculations were correct.
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