Which race is better for Paladin: Dwarf or Half Elf?

[Snaggles]

Yea those guards are level 50 and crazy high MR. Plus the nearest zone is a ways off. I’d prob roll another char to farm. Really anything with Invis or a lowbie necro for FD killing.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Uza Khan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, it does appear to be generally safe to just go +5 AGI then CHA or WIS.

I have seen a lot of people talk about the ability of Paladins to do a pretty decent job of soloing, even if it can be slow, and I definitely want to be able to do the same. I do see myself grouping as much as possible (because its fun to spend time with others gamers), but yeah, once I get certain pieces of gear, I would like to solo some.

That's why I guess I'm just leaning into CHA as the secondary stat....to help make the solo aspect a little more safe whenever I do get the chance to do so.

Do you guys know of Dwarven Paladins who've done this successfully?

I read about all the other races who solo, I guess because they all have much higher starting CHA.

Does this mean that Dwarven Paladins need to give up that dream and just focus on group play?

Dwarf pally solo build can absolutely plow through content. They have all the tools you need to dungeon crawl if you can gear them properly. Despite all this CHA talk you ultimately still have root/lay hands/soulfire/DA to fall back on. It's really hard to die as a Pally. 5 AGI, 15 CHA is good option for a Dwarf. You really have to weight your gear options, if that extra 5 AGI makes you more comfy going to bed at night, go with it. However me personally I would go 20 CHA, since I have no problems making up the extra AGI while still wearing a fungi(which you can ditch at 45 for a DW bp) & lodi shield - which puts you at 55 AGI. Crown of narandi + barbed dragonscale pauldrons + seahorse belt = 76 AGI. Really depends on your level of twinkage you could also use the seahorse spine bracelet which comes with 5 str/5 AGI/10 CHA. People talking about the extra 5 for CRs & resists is very niche. I think statistically you're better off with more CHA on a CR vs having some extra AC trying to live naked when shit goes south(I use my rogue for CRs anyway, much more effective).

Either way it's a fantastic class and I'm sure you'll have a blast.

[Toxigen]

You don't ditch a fungi for DW BP.

You use both.

[Trelaboon]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What’s the thing with agility? I don’t really get it, it’s not hard to get to 75 agi via items in velious.

I just don't want to ever have to worry about an AC penalty. Especially if you consider a fungi has -10 agility on it. If you're twinking, and wearing a fungi, you're already at 60 agility as a Dwarf. Once your gear is well established, its not a huge concern, but I don't personally want to have to worry about it while leveling. Especially if they're NOT twinking, you're gonna take an AC hit until you reach a point that your gear can offset the that -5 agility, which might not happen right away.

You mention things like +6 neck and Crown of Narandi, but you're not gonna see either of those until well into your 50's, often not until 60, unless you're a twink.

I guess its ultimately personal preference, but I want my naked AC to reach the minimum required amount to avoid the penalty.

[Ennewi]

Above a certain number, AGI really should've given a bonus to AC about as noticeable as the penalty imo, and then below another number lower than 75, an additional penalty. Djarns Amethyst Ring is a good way to offset Fungi Tunic, but more expensive than the standard wedding rings. So definitely have to agree with investing points and removing any concerns if not an agile race / loaded with coin.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Trelaboon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just don't want to ever have to worry about an AC penalty. Especially if you consider a fungi has -10 agility on it. If you're twinking, and wearing a fungi, you're already at 60 agility as a Dwarf. Once your gear is well established, its not a huge concern, but I don't personally want to have to worry about it while leveling. Especially if they're NOT twinking, you're gonna take an AC hit until you reach a point that your gear can offset the that -5 agility, which might not happen right away.

You mention things like +6 neck and Crown of Narandi, but you're not gonna see either of those until well into your 50's, often not until 60, unless you're a twink.

I guess its ultimately personal preference, but I want my naked AC to reach the minimum required amount to avoid the penalty.

If you can afford a fungi, you should have no issues getting above 75 agility. There's tons of cheap AGI items in Velious. I 100% get the argument from Classic-Kunark.

Naked AC seems like mostly a CR thing, but I have my rogue do all my risky CRs, so I don't really care about that. I've done quite a few melee builds, and always wished I went CHA with my pally. That's what I'd do next time around, but to each their own.

[Bockscar]

If it's specifically for soloing, dwarf isn't that interesting. Stamina barely matters when soloing, it's only really relevant when others are healing you and a larger HP pool makes it more efficient for them. The high strength is alright but it's by far the easiest stat to raise. Dwarves have to put five points into agility if you're starting without twink gear, so that's five fewer points to spend elsewhere. They have by far the lowest charisma of all the races, and you can easily argue that this is the most important stat for soloing.

I would go high elf or human if soloing is a big part of your plans. The only time I really favor dwarf is if someone's trying real hard to be the best raiding paladin that one can be. In pretty much any other setting, dwarves are kind of underwhelming. They're decidedly bad solo, and in a group it doesn't really matter much unless you're tasked with lulling, in which case dwarf is also the very worst race. Your strength is largely irrelevant, as is stamina frankly when not tanking raid content.

Having less than 75 agility sucks until surprisingly late into the game. In classic, you could very well be in a situation where none of the gear you want to wear has agi on it. Of the paladin planar set, only the legs have agi, and they're some pretty terrible legs anyway. In Kunark, you're in the same boat: very little tank gear with agility. The DW chest and legs do have it, but these are not items everyone just has access to. NoS has +5 but it's absurdly expensive during Kunark. There's none on the pally epic.

Sure, you can wear a serpentine bracer or cat's eye whatever necklace or some shit, but then we're getting into the territory of calculating how much other stuff you're giving up just to fix the agility problem. It's really not until you get into Velious endgame gear that having agility somewhere is a given. I remember struggling with this a lot on an ogre SK back in live. There wasn't agility on any of the items I actually wanted to wear until Velious. By and large, dwarves only get 15 stat points to allocate.

[Toxigen]

Human max cha god tier paladin all knows

[Trelaboon]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can afford a fungi, you should have no issues getting above 75 agility. There's tons of cheap AGI items in Velious. I 100% get the argument from Classic-Kunark.

Naked AC seems like mostly a CR thing, but I have my rogue do all my risky CRs, so I don't really care about that. I've done quite a few melee builds, and always wished I went CHA with my pally. That's what I'd do next time around, but to each their own.

I agree, to each their own, but assuming I were to take off my Breastplate if Eradication and wear a fungi instead, I’d be at 92 agility. My gear isn’t amazing but it’s descent by all means. If I were a dwarf, instead of a High Elf, I’d be at 77 agility with a fungi on. That’s passing, but it’s a little close for comfort for me. I just think the 5 agility is absolutely a must, but again, different strokes. So much of Paladins “good” gear doesn’t have agility on it, unless you’re hitting BiS items. It’s hp/sta as a primary focus.

[Snaggles]

I still stand that for almost every class (if not every class) race is such a small decision it wont impact your game. I’ve seen a number of dwarf paladins solo and crawl The Hole, likely without any CHA gear at all. Some players tend to theorycraft and prep with bags of backup gear, some just keep a cap charged and YOLO.

I still remember one random tell to my 60 eru paladin asking if I regret my decision and if it has been limiting in what I can do. As shocking (and funny) as it was, I just explained if SK’s can justify a swing of about 50 str/stam and 40 intel either way at creation screen it’s a much smaller difference for a paladin.

Play what you like the look of. Or what you have nostalgia with. Or a race that has access to an item you are lusting for (I still want a Natures Defender even if I wouldn’t use it; I would occasionally use a Frostreaver). You can definitely make up for or make do with what you have. If you know how to quickly pick targets, grab/hold aggro, and shut down gaters, people won’t care about anything else. For a solo player just don’t die, easy! After 59 you can even self rez so life is very self sufficient even if you are soloing somewhere strange.